Author Topic: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left  (Read 7800 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2015, 11:22:38 AM »
Really lubab the story is clear?  I'm just wondering does the Lubab religion include or exclude chazal. And the midrashim to understand the story?   You can't make the story about something it wasn't and then demand me to prove a negative.   The story was about what it was about:  3 idol worshipers Abraham welcomed into his tent as guests to teach them monotheism. That's only the pshat level. And you are remaking the pshat into your own story of aiding and abetting enemies to teach them his ways?  Talk about projection.

Abraham did not invite the kings of enemy nations and their soldiers into his home to mekarev them.  He fought a war against his enemies.  Don't spread sheker.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2015, 11:28:56 AM »
Again I will be clear.  You are adopting secular ethics and accepting the premises of the postmodernism of liberal leftists annd atheists.   There is nothing special creative or unique about it.   From the world I come from, it is nauseatingly typical.  The leftists brainwash society to believe there are no nations, no enemy or hostile populations amd no moral justification to respond to cruelty mercilessly.  And no borders and no differences between people...  you hate shimon peres so much but your ideology has become similar in many ways to his.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2015, 06:27:13 PM »


The Freemasons rewrite History. They claim that they originate from the building of the First Temple. They also hijack some Kabbalistic things. Many of the conspiracy theorists write Anti-Semitic things accusing Freemasons of being behind Kabbalah. A lot of the New Age people hijack Kabbalah. Just look on Wikipedia and you can see. Kabbalah is part of the Torah. It is not some New Age astrology nonsense. So Freemasons use some Jewish concepts and conspiracy theorists blame it on the Jews. Adam was the first one to study Kabbalah. Freemasons try to say all the people that studied Kabbalah were Freemasons. It's just like Muslims say Adam was Muslim and blacks say "everybody was black, UMM HMM".

Barry Chamish is the only conspiracy theorist that tries to get religious Jews as well as Christians to support his views. But his other target is the New Age people that like his UFO theories. So his Christian religious supporters oppose his other target group (Many Evangelicals are into conspiracy theories. Watch late night paid programming and you will hear them talking about the back of the one dollar bill for example. The J4J's are actually very Zionist and support conspiracy theory stuff even if they are missionaries which undoes any good they may have done with their Zionism.).
We rewrite history? You mean we record history! Like the Hebros? We don't replace anybody! Anyone can be one, as long as you believe in the one creator. If you're smarter than a rock, you can figure out who that is.... If you don't like it, you can quit. Just don't tell anyone our secrets, or you will disappear... ;-)

Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2015, 06:28:30 PM »
Lubab, I could only wish Jews and Mason ruled the world! This world wouldn't be like it is today!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2015, 06:59:30 PM »
Look at this Lubab..... Right in the center.  We even have the Bohemie Catholics....  :o

http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g274714-i21530237-Brno_South_Moravian_Region_Moravia.html
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5458
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2015, 07:24:10 PM »
We rewrite history? You mean we record history! Like the Hebros? We don't replace anybody! Anyone can be one, as long as you believe in the one creator. If you're smarter than a rock, you can figure out who that is.... If you don't like it, you can quit. Just don't tell anyone our secrets, or you will disappear... ;-)

 ???  How many mentally ill people are on this forum?
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2015, 07:26:56 PM »
???  How many mentally ill people are on this forum?
It was a joke, mentally ill DICK!!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2015, 07:29:04 PM »
Lubab, does the shiite you're spitting sound familiar to you at all? It's what the Nazis and Russians were yelling and screaming before World War 2!!!!!!!!!!! It's what's being spread in America and the west, by the Marxist socialists commies today! PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ARSE! Get on the right side of history, because WE WIN!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2015, 07:33:52 PM »
Tag, I think your an arsehole that causes problems for this forum. Pull the Corn cob out your arse! Looks like we are losing members.....
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Debbie Shafer

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4317
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2015, 07:45:32 PM »
I don't hate you, but you need to understand that the world is going to be a very dangerous place from the Progressive left destroying our national security by making deals with Iran, Cuba, and Russia.   God blesses those who bless Israel and curses those who curse her.  It has stood the test of time.  Genesis 12:3  God deals with nations in accord with how those nations deal with Israel.

Offline Debbie Shafer

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4317
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2015, 07:48:58 PM »
The Lord said to David and to Solomon his son, "In this house and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, I will put my name forever."  II Kings 21:7   

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2015, 08:16:19 PM »
???  How many mentally ill people are on this forum?
What exactly in that statement makes me mentally I'll?
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2015, 09:18:27 PM »
Shalom Lubab and welcome back to the forum. Your views are crazy and unjewish and would love for you stay here and debate us until you are set straight and a full fledged Jewish Jew. Below I will respond to your points:


Ok guys. I missed you all. Some will hate me for this post. That's ok. I left the forum a long time ago and I think it was clear at the time to people I was beginning to espouse a world view very different from JTF and hence the split.

My views on Israell elieve it or not are still up for grabs. But some of the information I've run across in my travels has me leaning very far to the left. And I'm going to just share a few points as to what that is all about and I would like to be corrected if I am wrong. But I've seen quite a few right wingers lose debates on youtube on these particular points.

Point #1
I do feedings to the needy overseas. Non Jews. And we teach the Noahide laws. When I survey the world  I can't help but see that there is a huge humaniterian crisis in Gaza. These are the Arabs you hate. And the Arabs who hate you.

As a Jew doing Noahide work I do not judge people on their beliefs. We simply feed those who need feeding and the beliefs will hopefully come around later just like Avaraham Avinus used to do. Eat first, even if you are worshiping idols we'll talk religion later.

Therefore I would like to, and plan to help with the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Little kids need water. We'll give it to them. i think you all know it's bad over there. I think you also all know that the vast majority of people killed in these conflicts and hurt by these conflicts are NOT in uniform and NOT interested in fighting. Yet they suffer. And to my eyes, that's human suffering and we always should help human suffering whether the human hates us or not that's irrelevant to me. Will they hate Jews MORE if a Jew gives their children water?

We shall see. But from prior experiences in other countries, although it's must harder to reach them, even the Muslims build an appreciation.

point number:  Jewish problems should come first. That's not to say there are other problems that we should worry about such as starvation etc etc etc. but how about seeking out starving Jews and helping them and let the poles worry about poles and Arabs worry about Arabs?

I don't understand you.  What religion are you following? Judaism or humanism?  You help your people before you help other people and this includes the children of the people want to destroy you.

Ever heard the story about the shepherd who found a dying baby wolf and nursed it to health wit his baby goats?  And his employer came by and said, "kill the wolf for it will grow and kill the sheep."  Sure enough the wolf grew and ate a sheep.  As Moses and Joshua stated, "if you let the inhabitants live amongst you (women and children included), they will be as thorns and thistles at your sides."  "When one shows mercy to the cruel, he will show cruelty to the kind."  For the mercy to the enemy is the the rahamim ha tipshim. Are you fool, lubab?  Wake up!!!!





Point #2

Is Israel really in so much danger?

When I was with JTF I believed that israel is in great danger. they are surrounded by enemies from all sides who want to push them into the sea, and have said they wanted to do so. And tried to do so several times.

With more reading and viewing I started to see this from a different perspective.

One certain fact we can all agree on. Is Israel is more powerful than it lets on.

It was ILLEGAL to talk about the fact that Israel had nukes for decades.

they have the nukes. they have one of the best militaries. one of the best intelligence agenices. I've dealt now for a while with intellence agents and I asked, and was told by all of them, that Israel has the capability to wipe out all the terrorist groups in a day....

They are extremely powerful. and in a way maybe more powerful than the US because for some really hard to understand reason the USA is giving FOREIGN AID. I Israel. We're feeding dying kids in India. And money is going for Israel  who already has a good militatry for an even better one.

Israel has more power than it lets on. and doesn't USE the power. and that's the problem

in reality with the arabs that they call palestinains..in gaza...they actually are more like david and we are more like goliath. that's at a practical level between those two parties

as to the other arab countries....Israel...behidn the scenes i believe has them covered very well. some in the state deparment have said that even during the wars, even they they wanted blood..israel's survival was no where near as stake.

because like i said. if they want to. they can kick serous arse.

it's just that they dont' want to. and i think that can be traced back to sick minded people in the governent and people BEHIND the government who actually LIKE the fighting and want to keep it going.

and then


israel is powerful but only surviving because of Gd's promise. If we do what we are supposed to do as Jews then Gd will do His part. Don't forget that after the six day war the Israelis thought they were invincible and did not give Gd credit. Look what happened since.  A powerful army means nothing.



point #3

is what they call the "occupation". the source of the conflict

i have heard people say...that their grandfathers have said....that before the Jews started coming over.

the indiginous jews and the indiginous arabs used to be like brothers and babysit each other's kids.

what if that's true people? can you disprove it?

we don't want to face it . but it is a fact. i'm not talknig about the state. i'm talking about the whole movement of jews into the land starting from the 1910s...when it started the vast vast majorty of the people in the region were arabs and not jews.

and they did have some stores and houses and land . and those houses and stores were taken away and destoryed. appparently Hebrew U is build on a former arab settlment.

there's an organinzation built just to try to stop bulldozing of arab homes because it went on a lot them and goes on a lot now.

so maybe the lefties have a point. when the new jews came. that's when the conflits started if you take someones' land maybe that breeds a lot of hate that wsn't there before.

i bet if you and i had started israel we would not have bred such resenmtne. but i believe the same sick minded people in charge now were in charge then and did everything in a sick antagonistic way.

i personally now belive it  may be a  waste of time to focus on left and right and the knesset if big corrupt evil families like the rothchilds are going to keep doing things in such a sick way.

i don't blame any regular jews for the mistreatment or creating humanitnirea crisis. i blame i belive a few people at the top (perez is a mason btw)
 
anyway. go ahead and attack and where i'm wrong i'm happy to be shown i'm wrong.


Why would a country HIDE its power so much?

In 1948 Israel agreed to a compromise and guess who said "throw the Jews into the sea"?  I'll give you 22 guesses. Guess how many wars they tried to do it?  Guess who Gd protected?  Guess how many wars the Arabs need to win to finish the Jews off? 

There is only one Jewish state and 22 Arab countries. The Arabs who live in Israel who hate being in a Jewish state can go to their 22 countries, Gd bless them all.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2015, 09:35:12 PM »
"For the record I didn't say I oppose teaching the laws of B'nai Noah. I was saying something else. Just forget it for now.

 Anyway since you base yourself (claim) off the RAM AMS Halacha I suggest you glance over Hilchot Melachim umilhamit as well. See how he paskins in dealing with enemies during war time and to those who pose danger to us. Both internal and external."

I've learned it. But I'll learn it again. I think the issue i'm having is where do you draw the line. Maybe you can tell me. Because i don't get it. You're saying I shouldn't feed them. SO you're saying they deserve to all suffer and die? So should we just recklessly bomb civilian areas? We all know we don't do that. Even JTF doesn't believe in killing all these people. I think we all value their lives to a certain extent don't we?

Tag. Question for you. You are standing by a lake. And a very antisemetic man you know falls in and he doens't know how to swim.

What do you do?

Say he's a nazi and he deserves to die?

What is our halachic obligation?

I would save him. That way if he deserved to live, he lived. And he may repent from the incident.

It is so unjewish to risk your life to save a person who disobeys Gd and hates His people. Let Gd decide if He should live.

When you show mercy to the cruel, it is the mercy of fools. you are acting like a fool. WAKE UP WAKE UP!!!!!!!!
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline ChaimBenMordechai

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 566
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2015, 11:21:20 PM »
I was once a liberal leftist.

I found out how liberal leftists really feel about Jews and how they want us to hate ourselves.

Lubab will learn the hard way.

Offline edu

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1866
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2015, 02:10:13 AM »
Mordechai in the Biblical book of Esther did not win people over to the right ideas about G-d by giving peanut butter sandwiches to the friends of Haman.
He used Jewish might and was very successful. See for example Esther 8:17. Also our sages said the Teshuva of the Jewish people at the time of Mordechai and Esther was greater than the Teshuva of the Jews at Mount Sinai.
See also Tehillim/Psalms 58 as translated at http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16279
Quote
11 The righteous man will rejoice because he saw revenge; he will bathe his feet in the blood of the wicked.
12 And man will say, "Truly, the righteous man has reward; truly there is a God Who judges on earth."

Offline Sveta

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1086
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2015, 02:37:03 AM »
If you were spending time with palestinians and helping them, giving them food and shelter etc... and feel good about it etc... that's up to you.
I just hope you are not going to end up regretting it if they should try to physically harm you or your family, as they have harmed the hand that feeds them in the past.
Good luck.



Offline Yehudayaakov

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2015, 04:52:46 AM »

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23384
  • Real Kahanist
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2015, 12:02:49 PM »
I was once a liberal leftist.

I found out how liberal leftists really feel about Jews and how they want us to hate ourselves.

Lubab will learn the hard way.
Or, not.

I knew (actually, was borderline in love with) a genius Christian theologian girl in college who eventually became a fanatical, goddess-worshiping pagan feminazi.

I was kind of sad about this at the time but, now I say, good riddance to this dreck.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23384
  • Real Kahanist
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2015, 12:03:57 PM »
It is so unjewish to risk your life to save a person who disobeys Gd and hates His people. Let Gd decide if He should live.

When you show mercy to the cruel, it is the mercy of fools. you are acting like a fool. WAKE UP WAKE UP!!!!!!!!
Common sense stated in uncommon fashion.

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2015, 09:38:01 AM »
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Lubab

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Master JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2015, 10:36:43 AM »
Guys. You can drop the attacks on me. My view is not set in stone yet. And we have not started feeding anybody. I came on here to get the other side  of the story. I am NOT a person who likes to learn the hard way, as someone here said. That's why I don't make a move until it's really thought out or at least that's how I"d LIKE to live.


I'm not trying to convince you guys I don't think I ever will. I did however want to vent for a moment about CJD's early post to me. This was horrific. If you are Jewish or not you should be ashamed of yourself especially as a moderator. To have such hate for me personally  when I have never  in my life lifted a finger against you is vile. I've dealt with those with such hateful character traits as yours  so  I expect no apology or any soul searching but if I were you I would start soul searching into exactly why  you hate me as a person so much and what you hoped to accomplish with your comments and did it get the desired result.

Anyway.

Back to the topic at hand. I'm still not clear on what to do but things are becoming more clear. I'm analyzing this from a TORAH perspective guys. Not a secular one. I'm not secular, and I wrote the title of my post intentionally in an incendiary way. But I"m not a leftist. I"m a Jew and try to be the best chassid of the lubavitcher rebbe I can.

So here is what i see. I see first of all that the source of all the problems in the middle east is that Israel does not have a Torah monorchy. So moshiach is the real answer.

In a Torah monorchy things would be simple. A carrot and a stick. You either accept and prove you practice the  noahide laws which means an abandonment of support for bloodshed and pay a tax to the  Jews and be subservient to the Jews, and if you do that you get the benefits of living in the land of Israel. Mas ve Avdut. If you're found to be violating any of the Noahide laws the punishment is death. You cannot vote us out, because it's a monarchy and there is no vote so that's the deal take it or leave it.  Only truly righteous people can and will take it or that's the goal anyway.

So the situation is far more complicated as we want a Toah solution when the power in Israel is in the hands of haters of the Torah. (in large part NON JEWISH satan worshipin ROTHCHILDS and Satanic worshipping Sataniust like Shimon Perez may his name rot (although the Rebbe did try to get him to do teshuva) and f off  for whatever names you want throw at me for that TRUTH
"conspiracy theorist" "loon or whatever....I"m not an idiot, i'm unbiased to the best of my ability, i do research and i've been studying this stuff for a lot longer than you if yo'uve studied it at all so step off. And look in the mirror...YOU GUYS are actually brainwashed in that you cannot spend 2 minutes thinking outside your box or questioning your own beliefs. what does that tell you? it tells you instilled with fear about thees topics. instilled by who? you weren't born this way i promise you that...think about [note: you won't think about it])

Further complicating the situation is our status in Israel. Many will be shocked to hear this but the Rebbe once said that if the point Neturei Karta was making wasn't being made by them we would have to go out into the streets and make the point ourselves.

Which point? Obviously not the point that we should grovel and kiss tuchus in front of our enemies. The point, and nobody in JTF wants to hear this, but the point of Zionism. That we have a G-d given right to Israel right  now.  The chabad rebbe were against this becauase it's simply not true in the galut. It's true in the times of Moshiach. And the zionists...if you do a little research did things in a very nasty unfair and untorah based way which we all know contributed to the current hatred)

Later the Rebbeim had to accept the fact that the Jews are there and we're not going anywhere. And we have a serious problem of merciless terrorists who have the support of basically every Arab.

Therefore, it is a danger to life, to comprimise as Chaim so clearly and correctly stated.

Therefor the Rebbe said to even mention giving up an inch of LAND. is showing weakness...and showing the terrorists they now have a better chance of winning if they continue blowing people up.
The rebbe was yelling at specifically leftist and corrupt rabbis who were ABANDONING the torah, ABANDONING our belief in the sacred nature of every Jewish life FOR MONEY. 

At the same time the Rebbe has also said, as I mentioned that if Israel would fight the war in a way that was not peicemeal but rather extremely quick and decisive. it would save lives on BOTH sides.

So the Rebbe also recognized that even though we should not be giving away our strategic positions for a mirage of peace, but we should not be reckless with their lives EITHER. We should be careful to save life jewish or non jewish.

this to me is a real indication that Rebbe did not believe they are clear cut amalek or nazis. Amalek and nazis must be wiped out man woman and child.   

And we know they are not clear cut amalek or nazis from I think all major rabbis in orthodox Judaism. i believe the reason for this is because the distinguishing feature of Amalek is  they hate the Jews with absoultely no reason to hate the Jews.

The Arabs of Gaza, for all their vicious hatred could actually form a logical argument for the hate and usually when you speak to them it's not ONLY lies and propoganda...dont get me wrong they are very brainwashed.

but the propoganda is a lot easier to make in that they can point to the fact that they are boxed in in gaza, can't drive normally, can't vote, don't have  running water while all the jews right over the border to etc etc. etc.

Disagree...but this is not the talk of pure amalek. listen to hitler and it's a very different line.

Now would they want to kill us all even if we removed all those reasons? Possibly. Which is why the issue is in doubt. But being in doubt, and being in the 21st centurty with all the complication an ethnic cleaning would bring.

We do not favor killing all arabs. and even JTF, despite attacking me for giving food, would actually be comfortable giving them money in exahange for leaving

well i think JTF is on the right track with that.

it's the best carrot and stick we can probably come up with under the circumstances.

and i think this is where i went wrong with my campaing. We can't just give out food to those arabs the way we give it out to Hindu's in India.

We can't be kind to the cruel as Chaim said.

At the same time...you can't just put people in a pressure cooker...and threaten them with death if they get out of line. what happens in any classroom if you put them in a pressure cooker and give them nowhere to go. they will eventually blow up. and that's what the leftists are saying. they WILL blow up if the conditions are bad enough so what do you expect

and i can show you a documentary about LITTLE ARAB KIDS trying to commit suicide. and it's a common problem now...and yeah...it's real

i don't care what you all say my heart goes out to those kids. and while i would never give up an inche of jewish security and an inch  the Torah I do NOT think the torah wants little kids committing suicide in our watch.

So the questino is...is there any possible way to BOTH improve conditions...possibly removing the pressure cooker aspect....and at least open a door to some kind of truth and some possbility of  teshuva (Yishmael did teshuva at one point) while at the same time ensuring we never embolden anyone to life a finger against a Jew...

My organization may be able to help with that.

And that is where i'm holding.

To explore if this is possible. and as the torah says. if you did not find and you said you searched. we dont believe you..

So I'll keep searching.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 10:59:12 AM by Lubab »
"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5458
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2015, 10:56:05 AM »
" mosgiah is the real answer"


So what are you proposing? That people Jews and Arabs receive your dead Rebbe as the moshiah and all problems will be solved. Everyone will be "saved". Sounds very familiar with a different renegade sect who splitting off and eventually became the persecuters of Jews .
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Lubab

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Master JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2015, 11:03:25 AM »
" mosgiah is the real answer"


So what are you proposing? That people Jews and Arabs receive your dead Rebbe as the moshiah and all problems will be solved. Everyone will be "saved". Sounds very familiar with a different renegade sect who splitting off and eventually became the persecuters of Jews .


That would be nice. it's not like Xnianity where you are saved. What I meant was if you had a Torah jewish king he can execute people at will. it's practical.

Clearly my Rebbe is the leader on this issue already. Who else articulated what I said so well.i took it all from him.
"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Hi Everyone - Why I Startebd To Lean Left
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2015, 11:08:59 AM »
Lubab.  Things need to be looked at historically and logically from a Torah perspective of what we are dealing with in regards to Jews and her enemies.  The question is why does Gd give us so many unfathomable enemies and why are we a nation which will dwell alone?  Do you know why?  Because when we act alone to defeat our enemies, it shows everyone including our enemies that Hashem exists, we are His people, and the Torah which was given on Sinai is all true.  Anything else would be a Chillul Hashem...a power vacuum which would make other nations think their gods and religion is the light on to other nations.  (Just look at ISIS and Muslims and how Jews are pathetic today with being a light onto nations).

 Certainly, we don't just pray for it to happen.  We have to act Jewishly and have a strong and smart Jewish army.  When we learn from our prophets, like Joshua, how he went to battle against every man woman and child in Canaan and commandments that came with it, you will understand why we should not compromise based on what antisemites think..or what the rest of the world thinks.  I'm not suggesting we be blood thirsty..but there is a time to be chesed and a time to be deen.  You can't just be chesed and can't just be deen.  There is a lot in Talmud that Rabbi Kahane spoke about in this regard and you need to hear it and see it to understand that other perspective before you go out worrying about gentiles and feeding them and converting them to Noahidism. 

Self love and self respect brings respect.  The actions which you are prescribing for yourself to do, will not bring respect from anti semites..nor love..but perhaps resentment.  Be a good Jew, help Jews, guide Jews, help Jews return to Judaism, feed starving Jews, rebuke unJewish behavior, learn Torah...this is your mission in life (and mine too).  Let righteous gentiles worry about starving gentiles..and catholics worry about catholics and muslims worry about muslims, and turks worry about turks and Iran worry about Iranians.  Your a Jew..worry about Jews..worry about your brothers and sisters. It's hard to be a Jew. Our energies should be towards them.

Lubab..I hope you respond to my points.

Guys. You can drop the attacks on me. My view is not set in stone yet. And we have not started feeding anybody. I came on here to get the other side  of the story. I am NOT a person who likes to learn the hard way, as someone here said. That's why I don't make a move until it's really thought out or at least that's how I"d LIKE to live.


I'm not trying to convince you guys I don't think I ever will. I did however want to vent for a moment about CJD's early post to me. This was horrific. If you are Jewish or not you should be ashamed of yourself especially as a moderator. To have such hate for me personally  when I have never  in my life lifted a finger against you is vile. I've dealt with those with such hateful character traits as yours  so  I expect no apology or any soul searching but if I were you I would start soul searching into exactly why  you hate me as a person so much and what you hoped to accomplish with your comments and did it get the desired result.

Anyway.

Back to the topic at hand. I'm still not clear on what to do but things are becoming more clear. I'm analyzing this from a TORAH perspective guys. Not a secular one. I'm not secular, and I wrote the title of my post intentionally in an incendiary way. But I"m not a leftist. I"m a Jew and try to be the best chassid of the lubavitcher rebbe I can.

So here is what i see. I see first of all that the source of all the problems in the middle east is that Israel does not have a Torah monorchy. So moshiach is the real answer.

In a Torah monorchy things would be simple. A carrot and a stick. You either accept and prove you practice the  noahide laws which means an abandonment of support for bloodshed and pay a tax to the  Jews and be subservient to the Jews, and if you do that you get the benefits of living in the land of Israel. Mas ve Avdut. If you're found to be violating any of the Noahide laws the punishment is death. You cannot vote us out, because it's a monarchy and there is no vote so that's the deal take it or leave it.  Only truly righteous people can and will take it or that's the goal anyway.

So the situation is far more complicated as we want a Toah solution when the power in Israel is in the hands of haters of the Torah. (in large part NON JEWISH satan worshipin ROTHCHILDS and Satanic worshipping Sataniust like Shimon Perez may his name rot (although the Rebbe did try to get him to do teshuva) and f off  for whatever names you want throw at me for that TRUTH
"conspiracy theorist" "loon or whatever....I"m not an idiot, i'm unbiased to the best of my ability, i do research and i've been studying this stuff for a lot longer than you if yo'uve studied it at all so step off. And look in the mirror...YOU GUYS are actually brainwashed in that you cannot spend 2 minutes thinking outside your box or questioning your own beliefs. what does that tell you? it tells you instilled with fear about thees topics. instilled by who? you weren't born this way i promise you that...think about [note: you won't think about it])

Further complicating the situation is our status in Israel. Many will be shocked to hear this but the Rebbe once said that if the point Neturei Karta was making wasn't being made by them we would have to go out into the streets and make the point ourselves.

Which point? Obviously not the point that we should grovel and kiss tuchus in front of our enemies. The point, and nobody in JTF wants to hear this, but the point of Zionism. That we have a G-d given right to Israel right  now.  The chabad rebbe were against this becauase it's simply not true in the galut. It's true in the times of Moshiach. And the zionists...if you do a little research did things in a very nasty unfair and untorah based way which we all know contributed to the current hatred)

Later the Rebbeim had to accept the fact that the Jews are there and we're not going anywhere. And we have a serious problem of merciless terrorists who have the support of basically every Arab.

Therefore, it is a danger to life, to comprimise as Chaim so clearly and correctly stated.

Therefor the Rebbe said to even mention giving up an inch of LAND. is showing weakness...and showing the terrorists they now have a better chance of winning if they continue blowing people up.
The rebbe was yelling at specifically leftist and corrupt rabbis who were ABANDONING the torah, ABANDONING our belief in the sacred nature of every Jewish life FOR MONEY. 

At the same time the Rebbe has also said, as I mentioned that if Israel would fight the war in a way that was not peicemeal but rather extremely quick and decisive. it would save lives on BOTH sides.

So the Rebbe also recognized that even though we should not be giving away our strategic positions for a mirage of peace, but we should not be reckless with their lives EITHER. We should be careful to save life jewish or non jewish.

this to me is a real indication that Rebbe did not believe they are clear cut amalek or nazis. Amalek and nazis must be wiped out man woman and child.   

And we know they are not clear cut amalek or nazis from I think all major rabbis in orthodox Judaism. i believe the reason for this is because the distinguishing feature of Amalek is  they hate the Jews with absoultely no reason to hate the Jews.

The Arabs of Gaza, for all their vicious hatred could actually form a logical argument for the hate and usually when you speak to them it's not ONLY lies and propoganda...dont get me wrong they are very brainwashed.

but the propoganda is a lot easier to make in that they can point to the fact that they are boxed in in gaza, can't drive normally, can't vote, don't have  running water while all the jews right over the border to etc etc. etc.

Disagree...but this is not the talk of pure amalek. listen to hitler and it's a very different line.

Now would they want to kill us all even if we removed all those reasons? Possibly. Which is why the issue is in doubt. But being in doubt, and being in the 21st centurty with all the complication an ethnic cleaning would bring.

We do not favor killing all arabs. and even JTF, despite attacking me for giving food, would actually be comfortable giving them money in exahange for leaving

well i think JTF is on the right track with that.

it's the best carrot and stick we can probably come up with under the circumstances.

and i think this is where i went wrong with my campaing. We can't just give out food to those arabs the way we give it out to Hindu's in India.

We can't be kind to the cruel as Chaim said.

At the same time...you can't just put people in a pressure cooker...and threaten them with death if they get out of line. what happens in any classroom if you put them in a pressure cooker and give them nowhere to go. they will eventually blow up. and that's what the leftists are saying. they WILL blow up if the conditions are bad enough so what do you expect

and i can show you a documentary about LITTLE ARAB KIDS trying to commit suicide. and it's a common problem now...and yeah...it's real

i don't care what you all say my heart goes out to those kids. and while i would never give up an inche of jewish security and an inch  the Torah I do NOT think the torah wants little kids committing suicide in our watch.

So the questino is...is there any possible way to BOTH improve conditions...possibly removing the pressure cooker aspect....and at least open a door to some kind of truth and some possbility of  teshuva (Yishmael did teshuva at one point) while at the same time ensuring we never embolden anyone to life a finger against a Jew...

My organization may be able to help with that.

And that is where i'm holding.

To explore if this is possible. and as the torah says. if you did not find and you said you searched. we dont believe you..

So I'll keep searching.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 11:34:18 AM by Dr. Dan »
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein