Polygamy.

[judeanoncapta]

The fact is that a lot of Ancient Israelite cultural things are coming back in Israel.

Many Hilltop Youth people are putting on Ancient Israelite garb. Tekheleth is making a resurgence.

 Polygamy just may come back as well.   Who knows?

[dawntreader]

I do not know where you get the idea that we(Ashken. Jews), do not have to follow the decree anymore, but until a leading posek(such as R' Eliyahsiv), in the Ashk. community decides that we no longer have to follow it, we must, we cannot take torah into our own hands and be our own poskim.

Hmmm...so why can't we Ahskenazim just decide to follow the Sephardic community's customs? Mmmm?

Are Sephardim really DIFFERENT Jews than we are? Of course not. It's a matter of deciding which Rabbi's advice, rulings and decrees to follow.

[chakma613]

I do not know where you get the idea that we(Ashken. Jews), do not have to follow the decree anymore, but until a leading posek(such as R' Eliyahsiv), in the Ashk. community decides that we no longer have to follow it, we must, we cannot take torah into our own hands and be our own poskim.

Hmmm...so why can't we Ahskenazim just decide to follow the Sephardic community's customs? Mmmm?

Are Sephardim really DIFFERENT Jews than we are? Of course not. It's a matter of deciding which Rabbi's advice, rulings and decrees to follow.

Wow, now this is a laugh - achdus is great, but minhagim are important too, and if done right are not divisive. Plus in America it is not an issue since we have a principle of dina malchusa dina - the law of the land is the law for the jews to follow when it does not override a torah law, so polygamy for either ashkenazim or sephardim is tlotaly out of the question, since no one says it's a mitzvah to have multiple wives.

Also, ashkenazic minhagim are just as deep and beautiful as sephardi ones are, you should learn more about them before you say things like "well let's all just drop these sily divisions"

[judeanoncapta]

There is no such thing as Ashkenazim and Sefardim.

Only Jews in Germany must follow Ashkenazi minhagim and only Jews in Spain must follow Sefardi minhagim. Everyone else follow the minhag in the place where they live.

And if there is no minhag, they follow the simple halacha only.

[judeanoncapta]

Lisa Im with you, no way would I put up with that.  Its degrading, how would any guy like to share his wife with 3 other men?  

That would be pretty bad. But then again the Bible doesn't allow all polygamy, just polygyny. So we don't have to deal with that.

[judeanoncapta]

Chakma613, the rule of following the majority is true when there is a fully functioning Sanhedrin, until that time that particular rule is not in force. We must all find a Rebbe and stick to his Derech, that is how we follow the words of the Chachamim in this day.

So true.

It's too bad most religious Jews don't realize that.

[judeanoncapta]

...but the main idea is that if no one has said it before, and if there's no tradition from one's rebbe, it isn't Torah. "assur chadash min hatorah" - chasam sofer. Lisa's argument seemed to be valid, but it lacked the main part of any torah argument - received tradition, it was a chidush, and as we have seen, chidushim are not valid.

So let me get this straight.  I'm not allowed to have and express an opinion unless the same thing has been stated by some other rabbi in the past? 

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my entire life! 

Yes, it is pretty ridiculous. But alot of people say the same thing.

It has no basis in Torah, but people say it anyway.

[judeanoncapta]

This is what's wrong with many of the Yeshivas today as I stated earlier (which some posters attacked me for).  See for your own eyes the nonsense they brainwash young Jews to believe in, to be blind sheep without being able to think for themselves and without actually understanding the Torah but instead being a blind follower of what their "Rabbis" tell them to do.  See for your own eyes, I want denominator96 and his friend to see this.

Ok, so all yeshivos are wrong, and you, a solitary figure, are correct? That makes a lot of sense...the Roshei Yeshivos know a heck of a lot more than we do, and to say differenlty is an insult to them

Yes, it is an insult to them.

And for alot of them, it is a well deserved insult.

[judeanoncapta]

I know my last post was a little off topic but it is true. It stems from the overall corrupt nature of the yeshiva system and the rosh yeshivos in general. They condition little children and ultimately big ones to follow them blindly. It is convenient for them for it to be this way. This is why the products of the yeshivas are the way we see them. This is why some people who come on here get all excited when we question their rabbeim. Lets not forget they are people as well and that they are mortal. They are not g-d.

True, and in the Talmudh, we find many cases of students disagreeing with their teachers. Resh Lakish and Rabbi Yohanan, Rava and Rabbah, etc.

[judeanoncapta]

Yeah Chakma, can you do me a favor and explain to me why great rabbis over the years drank non kosher water? If water was non kosher, I am sure it would of been forbidden years ago like non kosher animals.

Ironically, it was the Chassidim who had the level heads on this one.

Most Chassidishe Poskim said that it is ridiculous. The water  is not trief and the cephalapods are either not there or microscopic.

[judeanoncapta]

Why was the water good enough for great Rabbis Like moshe Feinstein?

Because Rav Moshe didn't realize that one must not eat miscroscopic animals.

I wonder what the treif water people think about yogurt?

The are millions of trief miscroscopic bacteria in yogurt.

Wait ten years and they'll outlaw yogurt too.

[judeanoncapta]

Regarding the bugs in the new york water supply, I don't know of any authority who contests it, if there is a posek who says differently, I'd be interested to know why. not filtering the water makes the food made with it trief(unless it's mevateled by something 60x its volume, just to clarify). I dont like the standard argument used for daas torah either, but i do think that rabbis possess it, however they should explain themselves if they are prompted.

Most Chassidish poskim dismissed the treif water idea out of hand.

[judeanoncapta]

Anyway, to say that most gedolim were wrong, is an issue we had already discussed, and I woud like to avoid arguments about that, let's just agree to disagree.
Regarding the isue I did not yet address about Bar Kochba, it IS possible for the gedolim to make mistakes, but they reversed themselves, didn't they? the gedolim have not reversed themselves for the ost part about the issue of secular zionism

Most Gedolim told Jews before WWII to stay in Europe.

That was NOT A MISTAKE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[judeanoncapta]

I find it relevant, since it shows that the gedolim don't stand by their words if they are wrong(see mishnah eduyos, perek shammai oimer, for a discussion about why a person should not stand by his words if he is proven wrong). "the halacha is torah im derech eretz" I don't know what sort of halacha classes you've been to, but they were obviously NOT including "talmud torah keneged culam", also, you quote Rav Hirsch, NOT the Mishnah. The Mishnah says "yofeh talmud torah im dereh eretz" now, we can interpret derech eretz as an occupation, or we can inerpret it as many other things, it's one of the most gratly contested things in Mishnah to this day, and you are quoating it to suit your own ends.

You don't make sense.  Suppose a Gadol Hador is proven wrong by let's say contradicting both the Tanakh, the Torah and the Rambam's interpretation of the Tanach and there is not a source in the ancient commentaries for what he is saying, and his actions lead to disaster, then you think that the Rabbi can not be wrong since if he was wrong, he would change positions?  This is not logical thinking, I'm sorry.  This might surprise you but many Rabbis are wrong and never admit to their mistakes in our generation.   

As far as me making up what the Mishna means, Rashi says that it means worldly occupation, and the simple reading of the Mishna means worldly occupation since if it meant learning torah it would say learning torah, plus the Rambam also reads this as worldly occupation as did every other scholar of ancient times.  This reinterpetation of the Mishna is nonsense of recent onset and has no basis in real Judaism.  I even asked my grandfather what he learned from tradition on this verse and he said that it means worldly occupation.  Some of these Rabbis try to break the chain of tradition and reinvent Judaism in their own image but it is not my problem.  I follow tradition.

I can think of no such case where a Gadol is wrong because he rules something of his own accord, and does not base his understanding on something preexistant. The other interpretations of the mishnah are nothing new, il try and find the sources to back that up. i never said it meant learning, but it could mean other things. Rashi was one rishon - there were several others

Ovadia Yosef's psak on giving up land is the most perfect example of a Rav basing his psak on his own opinion when all of the Tanakh, Talmud, Rishonim and Achronim disagree with him.

[judeanoncapta]

another mindless ranting against the Torah and Religious Jews by Shinuy and Meritz. 

Who's Shinuy and Meritz?

Guess I'm wasting my time here.  I try to teach people real Torah by actually using Torah proofs in the style of the Rav and all I get is insults.  So few of my proofs have even been discussed.  I'm talking to a brick wall.

 Nobody is shui or Meretz on here as they literally support Israel having Sharia law which I haven't seen any of us support. We are only pointing out the flaws of certain jews in hope they will become better.

Stop lying. They do not support Sharia law. But all they do is trash Judaism day and night and pretty much say many of the things that are said here. They want a secular "democratic" society without Torah and religious Jews, even without Muslims. 

anyway maybe sharia law would be better then having a complete anti-religious (Jewish) government. (not opinion just idea).

Interesting, you might have to consult the Rambam who in Hilkhoth Hannukah talks about the great thing about Hannukah was the returning of Jewish government for more than 200 years.

Think of who he is including in this praise.

Herod.

Antipater.

Yannai, who crusified 900 Talmidhei Hakhomim on the road to Jerusalem.

My G-d, Even Shimon Peres hasn't done that.

Think a little before wishing foreign rulers instead of Jewish sovereignty, Ok?