Poll

Should pork be banned in Israel?

Yes.
22 (73.3%)
No.
8 (26.7%)

Total Members Voted: 1

Author Topic: Should pork be banned in Israel?  (Read 7437 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sarah

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3341
Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2007, 12:45:12 AM »
Yes pork should be banned in  Israel. If one rule is let loose, then a lot more will follow.....

Offline Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2007, 12:49:29 AM »

The only thing that troubles me about such a possible decision is that Jews should want to keep kosher, they shouldn't be forced to do so.


I disagree. As a society (Religious) the wanted results should be "forced" so to speak unto the population. Thier is a saying "the actions influnce the heart", not the other way around. Once you start keeping mitzvot after a while you can even love it. I know that you are speaking about choice, but this is really a western concept. Let me ask you should you have a choice to robe someone or should the owner of the house (etc.) do whats necessary to prevent any robbery.
 Also a classical example is the example with King Hezkiyah (Peace be upon him- whats the exact Hebrew term? Alava veshalom? I hear the Rabbi saying it but dont know if im pronouncing it right). When the Assyrians were coming, he swonge his sword on the door and said that anyone who will be ignorant, he will basically use his sword on them.( it was in order to get G-d's grace and save the nation). After some time the whole nation was learned in Torah and rightious, threw the actions their hearts were influenced.
 Remember G-d tests and gives choice, the duty of us is to wage the battle even way ahead of time against the Satan/Yetzer Hara/ Angel of death (which is all one).

But this is not so for all at the moment. There are too many self-hating Jews in Israel, and a sudden ban on pork or all non-kosher food, would drive them even further away from Judaism.

If a stronger influence of religion is brought back to Israel, then, this will no longer be an issue. With stronger morals, all Jews will accept such a ban, and won't even mind it, because they are keeping Kosher away.

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3006
Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2007, 12:59:33 AM »

The only thing that troubles me about such a possible decision is that Jews should want to keep kosher, they shouldn't be forced to do so.


I disagree. As a society (Religious) the wanted results should be "forced" so to speak unto the population. Thier is a saying "the actions influnce the heart", not the other way around. Once you start keeping mitzvot after a while you can even love it. I know that you are speaking about choice, but this is really a western concept. Let me ask you should you have a choice to robe someone or should the owner of the house (etc.) do whats necessary to prevent any robbery.
 Also a classical example is the example with King Hezkiyah (Peace be upon him- whats the exact Hebrew term? Alava veshalom? I hear the Rabbi saying it but dont know if im pronouncing it right). When the Assyrians were coming, he swonge his sword on the door and said that anyone who will be ignorant, he will basically use his sword on them.( it was in order to get G-d's grace and save the nation). After some time the whole nation was learned in Torah and rightious, threw the actions their hearts were influenced.
 Remember G-d tests and gives choice, the duty of us is to wage the battle even way ahead of time against the Satan/Yetzer Hara/ Angel of death (which is all one).

But this is not so for all at the moment. There are too many self-hating Jews in Israel, and a sudden ban on pork or all non-kosher food, would drive them even further away from Judaism.


Not true. Their are many even non-obervant Jews who do keep Kosher. Many Jews want their to be only Kosher and in most places their are. The ones who particularly are against this are russian goyim and some leftists, (I saw on RTVI reporting from Israel). Some Jews (Haredim) wanted to close down the pork feeding places, and some russian goyim were discussing how they cant let this happen because now its kosher tomorrow its Jewish women not dressing up as sluts. (they by the way actually understand the situation and the fact that their is a social battle and are willing to wage it) we also need to wage it and at the same time raise the standards and be more dominent, and not lower them and have them dictated by any anti-Torah group or coalition.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2007, 01:11:05 AM »

The only thing that troubles me about such a possible decision is that Jews should want to keep kosher, they shouldn't be forced to do so.


I disagree. As a society (Religious) the wanted results should be "forced" so to speak unto the population. Thier is a saying "the actions influnce the heart", not the other way around. Once you start keeping mitzvot after a while you can even love it. I know that you are speaking about choice, but this is really a western concept. Let me ask you should you have a choice to robe someone or should the owner of the house (etc.) do whats necessary to prevent any robbery.
 Also a classical example is the example with King Hezkiyah (Peace be upon him- whats the exact Hebrew term? Alava veshalom? I hear the Rabbi saying it but dont know if im pronouncing it right). When the Assyrians were coming, he swonge his sword on the door and said that anyone who will be ignorant, he will basically use his sword on them.( it was in order to get G-d's grace and save the nation). After some time the whole nation was learned in Torah and rightious, threw the actions their hearts were influenced.
 Remember G-d tests and gives choice, the duty of us is to wage the battle even way ahead of time against the Satan/Yetzer Hara/ Angel of death (which is all one).

But this is not so for all at the moment. There are too many self-hating Jews in Israel, and a sudden ban on pork or all non-kosher food, would drive them even further away from Judaism.


Not true. Their are many even non-obervant Jews who do keep Kosher. Many Jews want their to be only Kosher and in most places their are. The ones who particularly are against this are russian goyim and some leftists, (I saw on RTVI reporting from Israel). Some Jews (Haredim) wanted to close down the pork feeding places, and some russian goyim were discussing how they cant let this happen because now its kosher tomorrow its Jewish women not dressing up as sluts. (they by the way actually understand the situation and the fact that their is a social battle and are willing to wage it) we also need to wage it and at the same time raise the standards and be more dominent, and not lower them and have them dictated by any anti-Torah group or coalition.
Yes, their are plenty observers of kashrut, but you cannot deny that there are some who do not keep kosher. There are plenty of self-hating Jews in Israel who do not keep kosher. Non-observing Jews are most likely not to keep kosher, because they lack Torah-true influence or lifestyles.

The fact that non-kosher food is served in Israel demonstrates that the corrupt Israeli goverment does not take the Holy Land's religious background to heart. Such a ban will not be enforced by the current government, because the government is a secular entity, comprised of self-hating Jews.

Offline Raulmarrio2000

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2007, 02:04:33 AM »
To keep Kosher properly, Jews need much more than abstaining from pork. Meat must be Kosher, and eaten separately from milk. Banning pork will not assure that Jews will keep kosher. Even if all food in Israel is Kosher, they can mix it in a forbidden way (milk and meat). But I voted YES, because those secularist parents won't have pork to impurify their children, at least.

Offline Wayne Jude

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2553
Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2007, 02:05:50 AM »
Pork is full of worms .Its gross!

newman

  • Guest
Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2007, 03:46:22 AM »
Yes. Israel is a JEWISH state.

However, stocks of canned bacon should be kept in police and army stores to rub on and force-feed to the muslims.

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2007, 07:28:20 AM »

The only thing that troubles me about such a possible decision is that Jews should want to keep kosher, they shouldn't be forced to do so.


I disagree. As a society (Religious) the wanted results should be "forced" so to speak unto the population. Thier is a saying "the actions influnce the heart", not the other way around. Once you start keeping mitzvot after a while you can even love it. I know that you are speaking about choice, but this is really a western concept. Let me ask you should you have a choice to robe someone or should the owner of the house (etc.) do whats necessary to prevent any robbery.
 Also a classical example is the example with King Hezkiyah (Peace be upon him- whats the exact Hebrew term? Alava veshalom? I hear the Rabbi saying it but dont know if im pronouncing it right). When the Assyrians were coming, he swonge his sword on the door and said that anyone who will be ignorant, he will basically use his sword on them.( it was in order to get G-d's grace and save the nation). After some time the whole nation was learned in Torah and rightious, threw the actions their hearts were influenced.
 Remember G-d tests and gives choice, the duty of us is to wage the battle even way ahead of time against the Satan/Yetzer Hara/ Angel of death (which is all one).

But this is not so for all at the moment. There are too many self-hating Jews in Israel, and a sudden ban on pork or all non-kosher food, would drive them even further away from Judaism.


Not true. Their are many even non-obervant Jews who do keep Kosher. Many Jews want their to be only Kosher and in most places their are. The ones who particularly are against this are russian goyim and some leftists, (I saw on RTVI reporting from Israel). Some Jews (Haredim) wanted to close down the pork feeding places, and some russian goyim were discussing how they cant let this happen because now its kosher tomorrow its Jewish women not dressing up as sluts. (they by the way actually understand the situation and the fact that their is a social battle and are willing to wage it) we also need to wage it and at the same time raise the standards and be more dominent, and not lower them and have them dictated by any anti-Torah group or coalition.

Be careful, Tzvi...this isn't the right way....the truth is there are a lot of wonderful sweet non observant Jews that have to be turned in the right direction...and MANY are very cautious with religious due to the bad name SOME Hasidim have given to it...The best way is to be subtle and to show by example how wonderful certain things are..little by little...I already think Birth Right attempts this
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Dexter

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2005
  • צֶדֶק צֶדֶק, תִּרְדֹּף
Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2007, 08:46:17 AM »
Serious question.. What is a typical Israeli breakfast?  Is there one?
There is no typical Israeli breakfast.
Not a foreign land we took and not with foreign possession but a land that belong to our ancestors that was occupied without a trial. And when we had the opportunity, we took our land back.
-Shimon Maccabee's answer to Antiochus VII Sidetes.

"When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one... When you gaze into the abyss, it also gazes into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline MarZutra

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3663
    • BLOODBATH OF THE LEFT
Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2007, 09:36:17 AM »
Of course Pork should be banned in Eretz.  Like Savage says for America: "Borders, Language, Culture" which dictate a Jewish State with laws on the moral pillars of all productive functioning societies...the Torah/Noahide Laws.....with a Sanhedrin.

I would be talked into setting up pig farming and slaugtering in very remote locations for export purposes to the Muslim world as "Kosher" or halāl "Beef" product.   ;)
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3006
Re: Should pork be banned in Israel?
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2007, 02:44:20 PM »

The only thing that troubles me about such a possible decision is that Jews should want to keep kosher, they shouldn't be forced to do so.


I disagree. As a society (Religious) the wanted results should be "forced" so to speak unto the population. Thier is a saying "the actions influnce the heart", not the other way around. Once you start keeping mitzvot after a while you can even love it. I know that you are speaking about choice, but this is really a western concept. Let me ask you should you have a choice to robe someone or should the owner of the house (etc.) do whats necessary to prevent any robbery.
 Also a classical example is the example with King Hezkiyah (Peace be upon him- whats the exact Hebrew term? Alava veshalom? I hear the Rabbi saying it but dont know if im pronouncing it right). When the Assyrians were coming, he swonge his sword on the door and said that anyone who will be ignorant, he will basically use his sword on them.( it was in order to get G-d's grace and save the nation). After some time the whole nation was learned in Torah and rightious, threw the actions their hearts were influenced.
 Remember G-d tests and gives choice, the duty of us is to wage the battle even way ahead of time against the Satan/Yetzer Hara/ Angel of death (which is all one).

But this is not so for all at the moment. There are too many self-hating Jews in Israel, and a sudden ban on pork or all non-kosher food, would drive them even further away from Judaism.


Not true. Their are many even non-obervant Jews who do keep Kosher. Many Jews want their to be only Kosher and in most places their are. The ones who particularly are against this are russian goyim and some leftists, (I saw on RTVI reporting from Israel). Some Jews (Haredim) wanted to close down the pork feeding places, and some russian goyim were discussing how they cant let this happen because now its kosher tomorrow its Jewish women not dressing up as sluts. (they by the way actually understand the situation and the fact that their is a social battle and are willing to wage it) we also need to wage it and at the same time raise the standards and be more dominent, and not lower them and have them dictated by any anti-Torah group or coalition.

Be careful, Tzvi...this isn't the right way....the truth is there are a lot of wonderful sweet non observant Jews that have to be turned in the right direction...and MANY are very cautious with religious due to the bad name SOME Hasidim have given to it...The best way is to be subtle and to show by example how wonderful certain things are..little by little...I already think Birth Right attempts this

What are you talking about ??? In this post I said that even many non-observent in Israel keep kosher, did you read my post?
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/