Author Topic: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews  (Read 37461 times)

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Offline Bourne

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Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« on: October 11, 2007, 01:37:49 PM »
Anyone else see this article? 

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58089

Ann puts forth the "Christians are perfected Jews" argument. 

Is there anyone who can explain how this should not be interpreted as offensive to Jews? 

Offline Groucho Marxist

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2007, 01:50:14 PM »
Well, I don't know if you want this around: http://jtf.org/america/america.jtf.loves.you.ann.coulter.htm

But she's Christian and this is what Christians believe. Christians are not Jews. If you want to take what she said as an insult then you should feel insulted by Christianity. I don't agree with her, but I'm not Christian and she is.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 01:54:23 PM by without_feathers »

Offline Bourne

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2007, 02:34:13 PM »
I certainly do not wish to be insulted by Christianity in general.  I have never heard any of my Christian friends advance this argument.  Is this a universally accepted interpretation of Christianity?  I agree that Christians are not Jews, but wouldn't it be equally as odd if we went around referring to ourselves as "imperfect Christians" or perhaps "super Christians"? 


Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2007, 02:56:35 PM »
I don't want to get into it...BUT


A Jew is a Jew
and a Christian is a Christian....one can't be the other and are both compeletely different faiths.

What matters to you and me and Gd is that one is Righteous...plain in simple..it doesn't matter the faith one follows. 
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline Groucho Marxist

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2007, 03:20:45 PM »
I certainly do not wish to be insulted by Christianity in general.  I have never heard any of my Christian friends advance this argument.  Is this a universally accepted interpretation of Christianity?  I agree that Christians are not Jews, but wouldn't it be equally as odd if we went around referring to ourselves as "imperfect Christians" or perhaps "super Christians"? 



In my opinion, most Christians are not looking for trouble and respect other people's choices so they're not going to take into account what the New Testaments says about those who reject Christ as being inferior to Christians. Does that mean they’re ignoring the Bible? Some would argue no, some would argue yes – they’re not doing God’s work.

Some see the Bible as spiritual guidance, a personal decision you have to make on your own. Others believe it’s God’s brain on paper, a one-shoe fits all sort of deal. It really just depends on how you’re raised and what you’re told on a daily basis. I mean, that’s how our brains work. You open the Bible and you find what you’re looking for based on what someone else has told you. That’s language for you. It’s imperfect.

You shouldn’t feel insulted by Christianity in general. It’s the ultra-specific strict interpretation of a few passages that might bother you.

Offline genteelgentile

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2007, 04:23:11 PM »
Ann Coulter has mentioned many times of her Christianity, but I think this statement is something she might have said to tweak such "jews" as Abe Foxman.  The same type of Jews that JTF is harshly critical of.
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Offline Ehud

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2007, 04:28:38 PM »
I think this is a common notion in Christianity, although it might not be explicitly said very often.  They think that they are "perfected Jews" because they worship Jesus if I'm not mistaken.
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

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Offline genteelgentile

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2007, 04:54:33 PM »
Yes, you are correct Ze'ev.  It isn't often stated, but you have the general idea of one aspect of Christianity.  I grew up Catholic, and I never heard it put to me as "perfected."
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Offline Ultra Requete

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2007, 05:36:10 PM »
Usually the idea of "perfected Jews" or "completed Jews" is used by Christians in reference to Messianic Jews.  Messianic Jews, of course, are Jews that believe in Jesus as the messiah, and they come in different levels of law observance.  Messianic Judaism didn't really start until the 70's.  Christians couldn't convert Jews for centuries, so they tried to make Christianity seem more "Jewish" in order to win Jewish converts to Christianity.  The truth of the matter is, a Jew is complete with Torah, and needs nothing extra.

Calling Christians "perfected Jews" is like calling Mormons "perfected Christians".

That's not completly true; the first christains don't even called them self as such; this was intented as slur just like leftist Jews calling you "Cahanists"; In I century they were another  jewish sect like esenites who belived in Jesus being Jewish Mesiash their rabbi was James brother of Jesus; than Paul started to embrace gentile converts and by IV century the church was purged by almost all of jewish rites. but they were still groups of this Hebrew Chritians until A--Rabic invasion; Btw no one use the phrase perfected it stupid and vain; All christains think that Jesus fullfiled the laws of Torah; so they can fullfiled but not perfected becouse they still are sinfull. In this time they just don't speak of it outside their congregation especialy to jews; But jews shoud not offended by this view jut as christians shoud not be offended by jewish point of view that gentiles are not allowed to practice ten comandments for ex; w have to learn to agree to disagree on this forum. And remember that pisslam see us as zionist and crusader syiamic twins; for them all our diffences are not existing at all and we're all as one. ::) :::D
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11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

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Offline mord

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2007, 05:43:32 PM »
Usually the idea of "perfected Jews" or "completed Jews" is used by Christians in reference to Messianic Jews.  Messianic Jews, of course, are Jews that believe in Jesus as the messiah, and they come in different levels of law observance.  Messianic Judaism didn't really start until the 70's.  Christians couldn't convert Jews for centuries, so they tried to make Christianity seem more "Jewish" in order to win Jewish converts to Christianity.  The truth of the matter is, a Jew is complete with Torah, and needs nothing extra.

Calling Christians "perfected Jews" is like calling Mormons "perfected Christians".

That's not completly true; the first christains don't even called them self as such; this was intented as slur just like leftist Jews calling you "Cahanists"; In I century they were another  jewish sect like esenites who belived in Jesus being Jewish Mesiash their rabbi was James brother of Jesus; than Paul started to embrace gentile converts and by IV century the church was purged by almost all of jewish rites. but they were still groups of this Hebrew Chritians until A--Rabic invasion; Btw no one use the phrase perfected it stupid and vain; All christains think that Jesus fullfiled the laws of Torah; so they can fullfiled but not perfected becouse they still are sinfull. In this time they just don't speak of it outside their congregation especialy to jews; But jews shoud not offended by this view jut as christians shoud not be offended by jewish point of view that gentiles are not allowed to practice ten comandments for ex; w have to learn to agree to disagree on this forum. And remember that pisslam see us as zionist and crusader syiamic twins; for them all our diffences are not existing at all and we're all as one. ::) :::D
Good post
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Offline New Yorker

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2007, 06:01:19 PM »


Here's an excellent article on the subject.

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/  O0
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Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2007, 06:06:09 PM »
The concepts "completed Jew" and "perfected Jew" are solid Christian concepts found in the New Testament, defined clearly in Acts of the Apostles and Hebrews.

Found with them is the Christian theological doctrine of "replacement"--whereby the collective universal followers of Jesus (a/k/a "The Church") is "The New Israel" (replacing and discarding"the old Israel" comprised of Torah Jews who keep the Law and can't accept Jesus as the Moshiach).

Furthermore, the entire Torah & Prophets are re-interpreted and canonized by the early Christians so that the Jewish concepts of "Bride of the Sabbath" is now viewed as a concept where Jesus is the Sabbath and the Church is his bride...this is another solid doctrine in Christianity.

What Ann Coulter said (and says) is exactly what she means and believes.  She has no use for JTF, no use for Jews, and no use for anyone who does not accept "the world according to Ann Coulter".

Apologists for her on this forum making feeble attempts as her apologist  ["...Ann only meant the kind of Jews whom JTF opposes like Foxman..."] are in a delusional state of denial.

Time after time, I have replied to all of the threads and posts on this forum which "worship" Ann Coulter as some type of "Conservative goddess who is undoubtedly 'on our side' and 'certainly agrees with us' by writing my studied opinion of this loud mouthed skank based on my personal correspondance with her.

Over and over I've told all of you here that Ann Coulter is poorly educated, dangerously opinionated, and a narcissist who exists only to make more and more money through sensationalism which is swallowed hook, line, and sinker by pseudo-conservatives with no political conciousness.

Search the JTF Forum for all archived "Ann Coulter" posts and threads by MassuhDGoodName...you all will see that I have not only been consistent with my appraisals of Miss Coulter, but that I have also been right all along...all Ann Coulter knows about Jews is that "they killed Christ" and "they're all going to Hell if they don't accept Christ".

I'm so glad that she finally has revealed just a glimpse of her true character and world view.  If you people here still need a blonde whore to worship there's always Bar Rafaeli for you...she's equally as stupid and loud-mouthed as Coulter..but much, much, easier on the eyes.

American Conservativism can only be defined in terms of what one stands for...it is not defined in terms of "here's what we all are against".  The problem with our forum "conservatives" is that most here only know what and who they are opposing...yet have no clue whatsoever when asked what it is for which they stand...most gleefully denounce nazism, socialism, liberalism, libertarianism, secularism, yet when asked to succinctly define what those words actually mean they haven't the slightest idea whatsoever.

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2007, 06:06:39 PM »
I don't want to get into it...BUT


A Jew is a Jew
and a Christian is a Christian....one can't be the other and are both compeletely different faiths.

What matters to you and me and Gd is that one is Righteous...plain in simple..it doesn't matter the faith one follows. 

Judaism isnt faith, its Knowledge and a way of life.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
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Offline Joe Gutfeld

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2007, 06:17:20 PM »
Chaim wanted her to run for president!  I don't think he want her now.  Can someone ask this on the Ask JTF?

Offline Lisa

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2007, 06:18:43 PM »
Quote
Time after time, I have replied to all of the threads and posts on this forum which "worship" Ann Coulter as some type of "Conservative goddess who is undoubtedly 'on our side' and 'certainly agrees with us' by writing my studied opinion of this loud mouthed skank based on my personal correspondance with her.

Tell us about your personal correspondence with her.  What did she say to you?

Offline Joe Gutfeld

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2007, 06:20:38 PM »
What are you talking about?

Offline New Yorker

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2007, 06:34:20 PM »
Debbie Schlussel: Nice Try, Media Matters Nazis, But Ann Coulter is No Anti-Semite


By Debbie Schlussel

The Internet and Mainstream Media are abuzz in their latest attack on Ann Coulter. This time, they're claiming she's an anti-Semite.

It all stems from an interview she did with CNBC's horrid talk show host Donny Deutch. Apparently one of the two viewers watching this incredibly boring show was a Media Matters monkey trained to tape Ann's every word and think of ways to twist it.

In describing the connections between Christian and Jewish beliefs, Ann said that Jews believe in the Tanach, but Christians believe in that AND the New Testament. Jews need to be "perfected," she said. Reading the full script (also read Omri Ceren/Mere Rhetoric's and Allah Pundit's excellent comments @ Hot Air), it's abundantly clear what she was talking about. To wit: That we, as Jews, don't accept the full Christian Bible, and therefore, it's the Christian belief that we need to be fully accepting of.


Why should that offend me? I've had brunch with Ann, and we've had many conversations through e-mail, etc. During all of that, she's never once told me she's offended that I believe that I am part of the Chosen People. To you far-left Jews and other uber-liberals who want to rush off and call Ann an anti-Semite, that means that we as Jews believe Christians and Hindus and Bahai Faithers (and definitely, Muslims) are not Chosen. Does that make me a religious bigot? Nope. It just means I actually believe in my religion. Just like Ann does. Nothing more. Nothing less.

This whole thing is a lot of manufactured hype in order to try to play gotcha with Ann. Like I said, I know Ann personally and I like and respect her. She doesn't have an anti-Semitic bone in her body. If anything, she is one of the most philo-Semitic gentiles I know, and her columns--constant attacks on the modern day enemies of the Jewish people and defenses of Israel and America--are strong evidence of that.

Contrast that with the villain here: Media Matters. It's anti-American, anti-Israel, and is funded by George Soros, a Jew who proudly worked for the Nazis rounding up Jews and sending them to their deaths. Hmmm . . . him versus Ann Coulter? That's an easy choice. I'd much rather go with the woman who looks like an Aryan but is a friend to the Jews and their allies than the billionaire atheist Jew whose lived his entire life like a Nazi.

Again, if she is not bothered that I think that as a Jew, I'm one of the Chosen People (and she isn't), I certainly can't be bothered in the least that she thinks that Jews must be perfected to Christianity. I think the fact that far too many of my fellow co-religionists have substituted unabated liberalism for Judaism is what gives so many a platform for questioning us, though I don't believe that is what Ann was doing here.

And for the record, I believe Donny Deutch was lying about his own religious status. When Ann started down this road, and Deutch got so "offended," Ann asked him why he doesn't practice his religion, Judaism. He responded that he is a "religious" Jew. I doubt that, since his show is on the Jewish Sabbath, and keeping the Jewish Sabbath is the most important commandment for a religious Jew to keep. I believe most religious Jews would not characterize Deutch as a "religious" Jew, not that it matters, but since we're nitpicking along with the self-appointed nit-watchers here . . . . I, for one, enjoyed Ann needling him on that, since he needled her.

True religious Jews are not offended by Ann's comments, though they really appreciate her alliance with our causes. It's only the Jewish libs, like Deutch, who are feigning this shock and outrage. That's because she's a threat to their real religion: liberalism.

If anything, perhaps Ann shouldn't have used the word "perfected," if only because it was a perfect word for liberals to twist and use.

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Offline Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2007, 06:50:34 PM »
Everybody who's going on a rant about how we should hate Ann Coulter, read the article.

Jewish democrats? Sort of like the ones who support Moveon.org and Media Matters? Ann Coulter is always misquoted, it's become an infamous practice by liberal morons, such as Alan Colmes.

Yes, there's a layout of the conservation that took place during the interview, but you know what the magic of words is? They can be changed and twisted to meet any means.

Ann Coulter is a hero to the American and Jewish people, most people have no hope of becoming as intelligent as this wonderful woman.

Offline mosquewatch

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2007, 07:22:56 PM »
Ann Coulter basically called Jews a lesser people because they are not Christians. As a Christian I do not understand how a Jew on this forum is ok with this. I am bloody livid at her remarks. When one defames Jews  such as this, it will bring dire results. hitler basically said the same thing. I am not comparing Ann too hitler. But what she said was wrong. I will go on the record that if any so called "Christian" that would say such a thing is a most vile human being. She disrespected  the Jewish Theology and in my opinion as a non Jew, Jewish people should be livid as well . I will never support or listen too what this "woman" says again, she makes me sick too my stomach. Just my opinion.
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Offline Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2007, 07:27:32 PM »
Thank you for posting that article NewYorker. Ann is a good Christian, unlike the many in America. Ann understands and actually follows her religion. She understands that Christians are supposed to believe that Jews should accept the Christian Bible, just as Jews believe that Christians should follow the Noahide Laws, it's all a matter of religious perspective. What a great person.

Shame on all you JTF members, who actually believed this Media Matters-fueled slander!
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 07:33:11 PM by Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer »

Offline New Yorker

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2007, 07:29:39 PM »
Ann Coulter basically called Jews a lesser people because they are not Christians. As a Christian I do not understand how a Jew on this forum is ok with this. I am bloody livid at her remarks. When one defames Jews  such as this, it will bring dire results. hitler basically said the same thing. I am not comparing Ann too hitler. But what she said was wrong. I will go on the record that if any so called "Christian" that would say such a thing is a most vile human being. She disrespected  the Jewish Theology and in my opinion as a non Jew, Jewish people should be livid as well . I will never support or listen too what this "woman" says again, she makes me sick too my stomach. Just my opinion.

Ann Coulter is a religious Christian and a honest women. She simply stated the perspective of her faith on Jews, to them, they believe by accepting the New Testament, they are "Perfected Jews". So? Ask a Jew, based on the perspective of their faith, what a Christian is, and I believe the honest answer would be even more likely to offend.  
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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2007, 07:34:01 PM »
You know, I really don't care. I am not the biggest AC fan out there (she is a Bush sycophant hiding under a right-wing-lunatic facade) to begin with, and I really don't see where she is in a place to lecture about religion (she doesn't strike me as being of particularly noble character--she did date porn lord Bob Guccione, among others), but, at the same time, I am not sure if holding the opinion that Jews should convert to Christianity for a fact convicts one of anti-Semitism.

I will go read the article now and see what she actually wrote.

Edit... A friend of mine who has studied her extensively claims that Coulter is a Catholic. She supposedly says so in one of her books (which I have not read).

Offline Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2007, 07:34:23 PM »
Ann Coulter basically called Jews a lesser people because they are not Christians. As a Christian I do not understand how a Jew on this forum is ok with this. I am bloody livid at her remarks. When one defames Jews  such as this, it will bring dire results. hitler basically said the same thing. I am not comparing Ann too hitler. But what she said was wrong. I will go on the record that if any so called "Christian" that would say such a thing is a most vile human being. She disrespected  the Jewish Theology and in my opinion as a non Jew, Jewish people should be livid as well . I will never support or listen too what this "woman" says again, she makes me sick too my stomach. Just my opinion.

Ann Coulter is a religious Christian and a honest women. She simply stated the perspective of her faith on Jews, to them, they believe by accepting the New Testament, they are "Perfected Jews". So? Ask a Jew, based on the perspective of their faith, what a Christian is, and I believe the honest answer would be even more likely to offend.  
New Yorker you're a good person. We may disagree about sexual modesty, but you're an admirable individual for standing up for Ann.

Offline mosquewatch

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2007, 07:34:32 PM »
NewYorker  I am a Christian, she does not speak for me.  This is not about what Jews believe, it is about what she said. She degraded the Jewish people.
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Offline New Yorker

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Re: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2007, 07:39:23 PM »
Ann Coulter basically called Jews a lesser people because they are not Christians. As a Christian I do not understand how a Jew on this forum is ok with this. I am bloody livid at her remarks. When one defames Jews  such as this, it will bring dire results. hitler basically said the same thing. I am not comparing Ann too hitler. But what she said was wrong. I will go on the record that if any so called "Christian" that would say such a thing is a most vile human being. She disrespected  the Jewish Theology and in my opinion as a non Jew, Jewish people should be livid as well . I will never support or listen too what this "woman" says again, she makes me sick too my stomach. Just my opinion.

Ann Coulter is a religious Christian and a honest women. She simply stated the perspective of her faith on Jews, to them, they believe by accepting the New Testament, they are "Perfected Jews". So? Ask a Jew, based on the perspective of their faith, what a Christian is, and I believe the honest answer would be even more likely to offend.  
New Yorker you're a good person. We may disagree about sexual modesty, but you're an admirable individual for standing up for Ann.

Thanks, you're a good person too.
Nuke the arabs till they glow, then shoot them in the dark.