Hello from Germany aswell

[Ultra Requete]

The difference is that a few Poles collaborated, but Polish people as a group did not harm Jews.  By that standard, Jews also were involved in the holocaust (by killing other Jews), as yes, self-hating Jews did aid it.  Romanians overthrew their anti-Jew regime before the war ended.  On the other hand, Germans never overthrew Hitler, and had support accross the population.

The Polish community as a group was certainly not an agent in the holocaust, anything else is revisionism.

The fact that the romanians had antisimetic regime don't mean that the Romanian were antisimetics as a group, the facts are that some Romanians killed Jews, some Poles killed Jews, some Jews killed Jews, some Germans killed Jews and so on. Therefor I can't blame a whole people for being antisimetic, besides, there were also anti-Nazi German plot, and anti-Nazi groups, so...?

Yes Dexter in July 1944; after D-Day and Bagration when they realised the war is lost for Germany; so they tried to kill him to reduce the loses; for ex; untill 1942 von Staufenberg was nazi Only man who was from start against nazism was admiral Canaris and his Shwartze Kappelle inside Abwher they rescued some jews and polish oficers and got them to alied side as fake spies; I'm very interested who gave you those numbers.   

What numbers ?

You killed 1-3 milions of Jews, and after the war ended you massacared the Jews who left (, I don't blame you for that, I don't blame the whole Poles, I don't blame today's poles

Those ones.

[Dexter]

The difference is that a few Poles collaborated, but Polish people as a group did not harm Jews.  By that standard, Jews also were involved in the holocaust (by killing other Jews), as yes, self-hating Jews did aid it.  Romanians overthrew their anti-Jew regime before the war ended.  On the other hand, Germans never overthrew Hitler, and had support accross the population.

The Polish community as a group was certainly not an agent in the holocaust, anything else is revisionism.

The fact that the romanians had antisimetic regime don't mean that the Romanian were antisimetics as a group, the facts are that some Romanians killed Jews, some Poles killed Jews, some Jews killed Jews, some Germans killed Jews and so on. Therefor I can't blame a whole people for being antisimetic, besides, there were also anti-Nazi German plot, and anti-Nazi groups, so...?

Yes Dexter in July 1944; after D-Day and Bagration when they realised the war is lost for Germany; so they tried to kill him to reduce the loses; for ex; untill 1942 von Staufenberg was nazi Only man who was from start against nazism was admiral Canaris and his Shwartze Kappelle inside Abwher they rescued some jews and polish oficers and got them to alied side as fake spies; I'm very interested who gave you those numbers.   

What numbers ?

You killed 1-3 milions of Jews, and after the war ended you massacared the Jews who left (, I don't blame you for that, I don't blame the whole Poles, I don't blame today's poles

Those ones.

Well..
From the fact that almost all Jews in Polish were destroyd, and when the German invade Poland they took poles to their Army and to the SS that destroyd the Jews as you and I know.
And about the massacars, I already gave you a list.

[Ultra Requete]

The people from lands anexed by III Reich were conscribed to Wermacht by not as Poles but becouse they were treated as "ethnic germans" - Volks Deutche; becouse their ancestors were Prussian subjects before 1918; all Poles and Jews who settled in Great Poland, Pomern and Silesia after Polish independance of 1918 were forcibly tranferred to "General Goverment" 90% of polish Jews were wiped out becouse Poland was only country in Europe in which nazi german ocupiers punished anybody helping Jews with death; including his entire family; and german ocupation was longest and most brutal here (from IX 1939 to I 1945):

 

10. Why Was Poland Chosen as the Site of Extermination?

Anti-semitism of the local population certainly was not the reason for the Nazis' choice of Poland as the main extermination site for the Jews (who were also being murdered in the Reich, e.g., in Dachau, Sachsenhausen, and other camps). Certain segments of the Polish population were indeed anti-semitic, but this had changed when the Poles saw the persecution of Jews with their own eyes and when they themselves became subject to deportations, mass arrests, concentration camps and mass executions. Historians of Jewish persecutions are unanimous in their agreement that, after the Jews, the Poles were the most oppressed of all nations and were doomed to gradual extermination in accordance with the General Eastern Plan. Among charges listed in the indictment presented by Gideon llausner, prosecutor at the Eichmann trial, one (no. 9) was that Eichmann was responsible for the deportation of 500,000 Poles. Eichmann was convicted on this count, too, and the sentence assumed he had been motivated by his intention to destroy the intelligentsia class of Polish society.

The real reason why Poland had been chosen was the fact that of all the European Jews marked for extermination, three and a half million were already in Poland. German railroad transportation lines were overburdened because of the war. It was much simpler to build the extermination camps in Poland and to bring in the Polish Jews from nearby areas, rather than to transport them by rail to Hungary

Page 138

or France. The largest of these camps, Auschwitz, was established near the German border to shorten the distance for the transport of Jews from Hungary, France, and Italy. After the outbreak of the Soviet-German war, when transportation problems became even more acute, one and a half million Polish and Russian Jews were murdered by special units, the so-called "Einsatzgruppen"-not in the extermination camps, but on the spot, in front of the mass graves they had been forced to dig for themselves.

Transport problems played a role not only in the extermination of the Jews, but also in considerations of ways to save them. In 1942, British Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden told President Franklin D. Roosevelt

"The whole problem of the Jews in Europe is very difficult and we should move very cautiously about offering to take all Jews out of a country. If we do so, then the Jews of the world will be wanting us to make similar offers in Poland and Germany. Hitler might take us up on any such offer, and there simply are not enough ships and means of transportation in the world to handle them...."(6)

The Germans also undoubtedly reasoned that this greatest crime in the history of the world might be easier to hide in eastern Europe, cut off from the world by German occupation, than in the west, which--although also under German occupation--could never be isolated effectively from neutral countries, like Switzerland or Spain, or even from England.

One cannot end an account of the extermination of the Jews without stating that the guilt of genocide will rest forever on the entire German nation, which--from the first anti-Jewish excesses in pre-war Germany and as long as Hitler was winning the war--supported the Fuhrer and identified fully with him and with the Nazi party. Nothing but words--protests or threats--came from the Allies, but their responsibility is of an entirely different kind and can in no way be compared to that of the Germans. The sin of commission cannot be compared to the sin of omission.

Read this:
http://www.ucis.pitt.edu/eehistory/H200Readings/Topic4-R3.html

And for Kielce and jedwabne they were local pogroms; the first was comitted under soviet and second under nazi inspiration but all those responsible Polish Chritisns who dishonored our country shoud be hanged; some but unfortunely not all were. If Poland was indeed responsible for Shaoh we woud  be swarmed by pisslamic animals like France or germany today and we shoud be hated by G-d, Jews and entire world; couse pissslamic Invasion is G-d's wratch for Holocaust.             

[Frodo]

 

couse pissslamic Invasion is G-d's wratch for Holocaust.             

This is what my Mother told me, Jews are Gods people and anyone who tried to eliminate them will be punished by God.

I just hope we'll get the chance to reparative our guiltiness.
This time will come, there is a prophecy, once Israel will be in a big war with the arabic world
Israel will be on the edge of disaster, in that time all western Countries will stay together an save Israel
to decline.
Germany will do his part and so God want take away our guilt.

Yes, it is not easy for us to live with the holocaust, but noone can make it undo we just have to learn from it.

But I also look in the future for a life in which we can live together, in peace.

We all know this is impossible with people which haven't any respect to other cultures and religions and it is the
sad truth that untill now only and only the islam is trying the holocaust with the rest of the world.

I know what I have to do, because I want to live and die in a free World as a free person !!

greetings

[Husar]

@dexter:

"Calm down, most of the europeans took part in the Holocuast, as the Polish people,
the Frenchs,
The Austrians,
The Romanians,
The Hungrians.
The Italians
And more, so if you are angry about the Germans, get angry at all of the people I listed above."

 

Yes you're right, I should calm down, and let a "save germany" topic be opened.......

 

see my posts from the first day here, in JTF,
I do write "france" with only a small "f", since that's what it deserves.
Remember the french LVF engaging in the charlemagne (SS) division,
france was also among the agressors of Serbia,
thus behaving like a "pure" traitor,
which in fact it is.

LOVE THEM IF YOU CAN.

I hate the AUSTRIANAZIS as well as GERMANAZIS.
DO NOT MIND ABOUT THAT...
THEY'VE NEVER EVER BEEN
PUNISHED ENOUGH FOR WHAT THEY DID.

LOVE THEM IF YOU CAN.

As for the NAZIHUNGARIANS,
Serbs are ready to fight against them ONCE MORE.
I have put some photos of NAZIHUNGARIANS marching in Serbian Vojvodina,
DISPLAYING NAZIHUNGARIAN AND BAALESTINIAN "FLAGS" TOGETHER.

LOVE THEM IF YOU CAN.

Italians and Romanians were never as cruel as the other europeans concerning Serbs and Serbia.
During WWII, in Bosnia, Italians saved lifes of Serbs
that were to be SLAUGHTERED BY NAZICROATS.
There was no occupation of any part of Serbia by romanian fascists.
No mass-murderings neither from them, concerning the Serbs.
And in western bombarding of Serbia, in the nineties,
Romanians stood against it.
This is not an apology
of romanian/italian fascisms,
I have to say it.


WELL THEN,

SINCE GERMANS DARE COMING HERE, IN JTF,

SINCE THEY SUCCEED IN FINDING SUPPORTERS AMONG JTFers,

SINCE RAVI KAHANE'S WORDS ARE NOT RESPECTED,
(nothing with germans for 500 years)

I WARN YOU ALL,
THAT YOU'RE ON THE PATH OF OPENING A "SAVE GERMANY" SECTION (!!!)...........

WILL THERE BE THEN A "SAVE USTASHA" SECTION ?

 

[Ultra Requete]

@dexter:

"Calm down, most of the europeans took part in the Holocuast, as the Polish people,
the Frenchs,
The Austrians,
The Romanians,
The Hungrians.
The Italians
And more, so if you are angry about the Germans, get angry at all of the people I listed above."

 

Yes you're right, I should calm down, and let a "save germany" topic be opened.......

 

see my posts from the first day here, in JTF,
I do write "france" with only a small "f", since that's what it deserves.
Remember the french LVF engaging in the charlemagne (SS) division,
france was also among the agressors of Serbia,
thus behaving like a "pure" traitor,
which in fact it is.

LOVE THEM IF YOU CAN.

I hate the AUSTRIANAZIS as well as GERMANAZIS.
DO NOT MIND ABOUT THAT...
THEY'VE NEVER EVER BEEN
PUNISHED ENOUGH FOR WHAT THEY DID.

LOVE THEM IF YOU CAN.

As for the NAZIHUNGARIANS,
Serbs are ready to fight against them ONCE MORE.
I have put some photos of NAZIHUNGARIANS marching in Serbian Vojvodina,
DISPLAYING NAZIHUNGARIAN AND BAALESTINIAN "FLAGS" TOGETHER.

LOVE THEM IF YOU CAN.

Italians and Romanians were never as cruel as the other europeans concerning Serbs and Serbia.
During WWII, in Bosnia, Italians saved lifes of Serbs
that were to be SLAUGHTERED BY NAZICROATS.
There was no occupation of any part of Serbia by romanian fascists.
No mass-murderings neither from them, concerning the Serbs.
And in western bombarding of Serbia, in the nineties,
Romanians stood against it.
This is not an apology
of romanian/italian fascisms,
I have to say it.


WELL THEN,

SINCE GERMANS DARE COMING HERE, IN JTF,

SINCE THEY SUCCEED IN FINDING SUPPORTERS AMONG JTFers,

SINCE RAVI KAHANE'S WORDS ARE NOT RESPECTED,
(nothing with germans for 500 years)

I WARN YOU ALL,
THAT YOU'RE ON THE PATH OF OPENING A "SAVE GERMANY" SECTION (!!!)...........

WILL THERE BE THEN A "SAVE USTASHA" SECTION ?

 

25% of Germans miss aspects of Nazi rule


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press , THE JERUSALEM POST  Oct. 17, 2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A poll published Wednesday showed a quarter of Germans believe there were at least some positive aspects to Nazi rule - a finding that comes after a popular talk show host was fired for praising Nazi Germany's attitude toward motherhood.

Pollsters for the Forsa agency, commissioned by the weekly Stern magazine, asked whether National Socialism also had some "good sides (such as) the construction of the highway system, the elimination of unemployment, the low criminality rate (and) the encouragement of the family."

Forsa said 25 percent responded "yes" - but 70% said "no."

Stern commissioned the survey, conducted Oct. 11-12, after Germany's NDR public broadcaster last month fired talk show host Eva Herman following her statement on the Third Reich.

News reports quoted her as saying at the presentation of her latest book that, while there was "much that was very bad, for example Adolf Hitler," there were good things, "for example the high regard for the mother" under the Nazis.

Since then, Herman, a 48-year-old who has written books urging a return to more traditional gender roles, has stood by her comments.

She later said: "What I wanted to express was that values which also existed before the Third Reich, such as family, children and motherhood, which were supported in the Third Reich, were subsequently done away with by the 68ers" - a reference to 1960s leftists.

Any praise of the 1933-45 Nazi dictatorship is taboo in Germany. The Nazis were responsible for the murder of some six million Jews and starting World War II - a conflict in which at least 60 million people died, including more than seven million Germans.

The poll, which had a margin of error of plus or minus three percentage points, showed that people 60 or older had the highest regard for aspects of the era, with 37% answering "yes."

Those who grew up directly after the war, now aged 45 to 59, were the least enthusiastic about the Nazi era, with only 15% responding "yes."
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1192380579626&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

What can i say I do hope that he's from other 75%; if frodo will start to apologise Germans for WWII; or victimise them than he shoud be banned as german Christ was. but as a christian I'm wiling to give him a chance; I'm against the guilt by association. Welcome Frodo but I doubt you will be warmly welcomed here by everybody.

[Frodo]

I didn't expect to be everybodys Darling !

I guess I wouldn't be a Proper nazi, my wife is from Philippines
and we have 2 Kids.

However, I love my Country, but if this is a reason to call me nazi,
then I'm in the wrong place.

greetings

[kellymaureen]

Frodo, you havent said anything to justify calling you a nazi.

[mord]

Why do people call Frodo a Nazi he has'nt said anything nazi like

[Husar]

I,
who more than others do not want a german in our JTF forum
(thus being in union with Ravi Kahane),
didn't myself say frodo is a nazi.

I just reminded him of some (light?) facts about his evil"country"...

I wanted him to know german "aspirations", "fears", and whatever,
do not interest me, as a Serb, at all...

He, german, "suffers" ?

Let him, german, suffer.

YM'SHMO german.

 

Once again,
will a "SAVE GERMANY" section open soon ?
If that's it,
then, you can close the "SAVE SERBIA" section.

 

[Muck DeFuslims]

The difference is that a few Poles collaborated, but Polish people as a group did not harm Jews.  By that standard, Jews also were involved in the holocaust (by killing other Jews), as yes, self-hating Jews did aid it.  Romanians overthrew their anti-Jew regime before the war ended.  On the other hand, Germans never overthrew Hitler, and had support accross the population.

The Polish community as a group was certainly not an agent in the holocaust, anything else is revisionism.

What a crock of crap.

The Poles were indeed complicit in the holocaust.

Absolving the Poles of their guilt has no place on this forum.

You talk about revisionism?  It's you who is guilty of revising history.

Go peddle your BS somewhere else.

[EagleEye]

Incorrect.  The Polish people never produced an indigenous regime which murdered Jews, only under foreign occupation did a small percentage of Poles (who were also victims) intervene.  Quit playing the pity card, no-one wants to hear it.

[Muck DeFuslims]

EagleLie says:

"Incorrect.  The Polish people never produced an indigenous regime which murdered Jews, only under foreign occupation did a small percentage of Poles (who were also victims) intervene.  Quit playing the pity card, no-one wants to hear it."



Small percentage my butt.

No one is playing the 'pity card', but your BS about the Poles not being complicit in the Holocaust will not go unchallenged here as long as I'm part of this forum.

Go peddle your revisionist crap somewhere else, and stop having the audacity to tell the right thinking people of this forum what they want to hear about.

I've got news for you junior, the last thing a Kahanist Jew wants to hear is some unmitigated crap that the Poles as a whole didn't actively and willfully participate in the slaughter of millions of Jews.

Your revisionism and BS won't fly here. Take it somewhere else.

[EagleEye]

If you sincerely believe that the average Polish person willfully collaborated with the Germans, then you are are retarded.  You are trivializing the crimes that the Germans commited against Poles.

Jews are not the only victim of the Nazis, grow up, revisionist.

[Dexter]

If you sincerely believe that the average Polish person willfully collaborated with the Germans, then you are are retarded.  You are trivializing the crimes that the Germans commited against Poles.

Jews are not the only victim of the Nazis, grow up, revisionist.

What does "revisionist" means?

[Muck DeFuslims]

I don't believe the average Pole was willfully complicit in promulgating the holocaust, I know it.

The Polish denials of aiding and abetting in the genocide of Europe's Jews are as genuine as the German denials.

'We didn't know.'

'We were just following orders.'

'We had no choice.'

The truth is they not only knew, they actively and gleefully participated.

And not just during the war, but after as well.

Bunch of freaking anti-Semites.

And there's always some [censored] that tries to deny what actually happened.

Let's get something straight junior. The crimes the Nazis commited against the Poles are miniscule in comparison to the wholesale mass extermination of Jews. That's not trivializing the Nazi crimes, but stating an historical fact.

And it's also a fact the Poles were glad to be rid of their Jews.

Now you might not like these facts, but that doesn't make them any less true.

But if it makes you feel better to go on believing fairy tales, go right ahead.

Just don't expect your BS to go unchallenged at JTF.

 

[Dexter]

I pretty agree with Muck DeFuslims on that, but it wasn't the Pols only.

[EagleEye]

No, they are not facts, they are a perverted attempt to advance Jewish interests by distorting the facts.  If Polish people wanted to murder the Jews, they did a great job before the war (sarcastic) having one of the biggest Jewish populations in Europe, and could have always finished the job after the war...but they didn't.

The crimes the Nazis commited against the Poles are miniscule in comparison to the wholesale mass extermination of Jews.

A ridiculous statement.  Though many Jews were killed, the crimes against Poles and other Eastern Europeans (Gyspies could be added in here too) are substantial enough that nothing can make them "no big deal."

I bet you've hit the report post button a thousand times now begging for the mods to save yourself from your inferior and unresearched arguments.

[EagleEye]

Since you don't know history, I'll provide you a link and a google search.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=nazi+crimes+poles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_crimes_against_ethnic_Poles

Also, Italians initially resisted nazism, until Hitler's political pressure eventually coerced Mussolini into anti-Jew legislation.  In its original incarnation, Italian Fascism was not anti-Jew.

[Muck DeFuslims]

Since you don't know history, I'll provide you a link and a google search.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=nazi+crimes+poles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_crimes_against_ethnic_Poles

Also, Italians initially resisted nazism, until Hitler's political pressure eventually coerced Mussolini into anti-Jew legislation.  In its original incarnation, Italian Fascism was not anti-Jew.

Since you're incapable of reading comprehension I'll remind you the issue isn't whether the Nazis commited crimes against the Poles. That's a given. They commited crimes against all 'non-aryans'. That's their ideology.

The issue is whether the Poles were complicit in the Nazi holocaust against the Jews.

You insist the Poles were largely innocent bystanders that didn't aid and abet the Nazis in their genocide against the Jews. To which I say bullshiite.

I'll say it again (and you'll deny it again)...the Poles not only knew what was going on and didn't lift a finger to try to stop it, they actively and often gleefully participated in it.

The kapos in the camps, the failure to rebel when the Warsaw ghetto was being liquidated, the turning over of Jews attempting to hide, the refusal to return stolen assets and property- even after the war. The list goes on and on.

Sorry junior, but you're not going to convince this Jew that what happened, didn't happen.

And I'm of Polish heritage.

Go peddle your crap to someone that's dumb enough to buy it. 

[EagleEye]

Obviously dead Poles aren't going to do much to resist the Germans, are they?  If Poles support the holocaust, after the war, they had the full power to keep it going.  Germans controlled the country, and yes, Poles as a whole had no political power over the situation.  First of all if you are Jew, then you aren't Polish, you are Jewish.  Unless you are mixed.  So don't claim to speak for Polish people unless you have at least some Polish blood, real Polish blood, as I do.

The fact remains that individual Jews led other Jews strait to the gas chambers.  But it would be absurd to say Jewish people as a whole engineered the holocuast, and its just as absurd to say Polish people had any say over what went on to Jews or Poles.

[Wayne Jude]

What is Gruene Pest ?

[Dexter]

Obviously dead Poles aren't going to do much to resist the Germans, are they?  If Poles support the holocaust, after the war, they had the full power to keep it going. 

"The Kielce pogrom refers to the events that occurred on July 4, 1946, in the Polish town of Kielce (pop. 50,000). The outbreak of the anti-Jewish violence, sparked by blood libel, resulted in 37 Polish Jews being murdered out of about 200 Holocaust survivors who had returned home after World War II. Two more Jews in the trains passing through Kielce also lost their lives. Two or three Gentile Poles were killed by the Jews defending themselves, while nine were sentenced to death later."

[EagleEye]

Pogroms, however violent they are, do not reflect the majority population, but a disorganized gang attack from a mob.  Random acts of violence can occur without overall support of the society.  On the other hand, Germany had an organized and government-sponsored system.

[Muck DeFuslims]

Obviously dead Poles aren't going to do much to resist the Germans, are they?  If Poles support the holocaust, after the war, they had the full power to keep it going.  Germans controlled the country, and yes, Poles as a whole had no political power over the situation.  First of all if you are Jew, then you aren't Polish, you are Jewish.  Unless you are mixed.  So don't claim to speak for Polish people unless you have at least some Polish blood, real Polish blood, as I do.

The fact remains that individual Jews led other Jews strait to the gas chambers.  But it would be absurd to say Jewish people as a whole engineered the holocuast, and its just as absurd to say Polish people had any say over what went on to Jews or Poles.

So what are you saying ? There were no Jewish Poles ?

You're showing your true colors now, boy.

"You're a Jew, you couldn't be Polish"

Yup, that's exactly why the Poles didn't mind getting rid of the 'alien' Jews.

And that's exactly why they were complicit in the holocaust.

They didn't engineer the Holocaust, but they sure as hell took part in it.

And the maltreatment, theft of Jewish property and assets, and killing of Jews continued even after the Nazis were defeated.

Bet you think I'm not an American either--I'm a Jew--so I better not try to speak for the American people.

I'll say whatever I want, junior.

And I say as a whole the Poles were complicit in the holocaust.

And I know the Chairman and leadership of JTF agrees with me.

Take a hike numbnuts.