JTF.ORG Forum
Kahanist Singles => Jewish Singles => Topic started by: MarZutra on April 17, 2007, 09:39:32 AM
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The VAST majority of Jewish women I've had the misfortune to converse with have very little knowledge of Judaism, limited self respect and cater to each and every lie of Liberalism especially Feminism. I, for one, am totally revolted by this. There is nothing more of a turn off than a Liberal/Socialist/Communist woman especially one who is "Jewish"...
Any thoughts?
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Yes it's true
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That's true. But the same thing could also be said of many Jewish men. I had one guy I met on Jdate tell me I was "scary."
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That's true. But the same thing could also be said of many Jewish men. I had one guy I met on Jdate tell me I was "scary."
Jdate i'm on there 85% of women on there are complete leftists ???
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Its mainly PROBABLY because women like adopting a gentle view and opinion. Seemingly basing their opinions to suit both sides and make things fair. They would see abuse as evil, despite the reason. Therefore a right-wing sided opinion deems intolerably hateful for them.
I used To have a very liberal viewpoint. Disapproving of war and tolerating everything. This is NOT the way forward. Saying this shows that you are only judging the surface of a problem and not reckoning the solution.
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Which denomination do they consider themselves to be a part of?
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Its mainly PROBABLY because women like adopting a gentle view and opinion. Seemingly basing their opinions to suit both sides and make things fair. They would see abuse as evil, despite the reason. Therefore a right-wing sided opinion deems intolerably hateful for them.
I used To have a very liberal viewpoint. Disapproving of war and tolerating everything. This is NOT the way forward. Saying this shows that you are only judging the surface of a problem and not reckoning the solution.
What you describe is a very ignorant viewpoint that organizations like CAIR use to try and carry out their agenda. Remember, Keith Ellision received campaign funding from CAIR. CAIR supports terrorist groups.
Many liberals think that Jews are the cause of all the problems in the world.
Many Jews try to bring their ultra-liberal politics into Judaism by advocating for homosexual marriage, homosexual rabbis, abortion, etc.
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It is so sad. The entire civilized world, whether one likes it or not, was basically founded on the ethical teaching of the Torah, whether it be via Judaism or Christianity.....so why do these "Jews" disrespect morality so? I don't understand how people can cater to hedonism, lies, deceit and every ineptitude against self worth that Liberalism/Socialism etc. profess?
I was on JDate, JCupid, JLove and had so many bad experiences I have given up. Yaacov, I agree with you 2000%.....just ONE....
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It does not matter so much. Women are generally not very much into politics and choose whatever is portrayed in the media so most identify themselves as liberal. Forget about finding a Kahanist woman, there are none (OK maybee 10 in the whole US). I'll take any religious Torah abiding woman even if she is not as right wing as me as long as she respects my beliefs as well.
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The only women who are consistently pro-their own people are black women.
We should be grateful to have any white women at all. :)
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The only women who are consistently pro-their own people are black women.
We should be grateful to have any white women at all. :)
True, sad but funny.... I see women, in majority, very naive in that the vast majority of propaganda and disinformantion passed as "fact" by our "educational" system, media etc. one good example is Feminism, "multiculturalism", "tolerance", "open minded", "progressive"...etc.. It is a very sad reality but women cater to this far more than men. I find that most women do not think for themselves but are very willing to partake in this collectivist mentality.....
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I take offense to Sara's notion that women take a "gentile" approach. Jewish women are more liberal than gentile women on the whole. Perhaps it's the other way around?
I think the fact women are more liberal stems from the fact they are driven by emotions more than men. When a problem arises, women tend to look for emotional support as opposed to problem solving. Liberal ideas, on the surface, provide an easy way out and don't require hard work like conservative ones. Conservatives solve problems while liberals put a bandaid on them.
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I take offense to Lisa's notion that women take a "gentile" approach. Jewish women are more liberal than gentile women on the whole. Perhaps it's the other way around?
Whoa! Go back and read the threads Thunderbolt. It looks like you have me confused with Sarah. I never said anything about Jewish women taking a "gentile" or "gentle" approach to life. However, I will agree with you that women are generally more emotional than men.
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I take offense to Lisa's notion that women take a "gentile" approach. Jewish women are more liberal than gentile women on the whole. Perhaps it's the other way around?
Whoa! Go back and read the threads Thunderbolt. It looks like you have me confused with Sarah. I never said anything about Jewish women taking a "gentile" or "gentle" approach to life. However, I will agree with you that women are generally more emotional than men.
:O I'm so sorry, Lisa!! My post has been edited again. See what happens when you don't get enough sleep! :D
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Why doesn't JTF expose who the real Betty Friedan is. She actually is not a lesbian feminist. More like a communist feminsts. She supported Joseph Stalin. She had 9 grandchildren all her followers had zero. Many Jewish women including Orthodox Jewish women think she was an OK women that just wanted a career which isn't true.
More Jewish women then Jewish men are liberal. Among Jewish men about 30% consider themselves republican. Among Jewish women it is 12%. Those are still bad numbers for both genders but more men do conisder themselves republican. Among men and women under 30 by the way is the biggest gap between men and women who consider themselves republican.
Again though as long as the community lets young Jewish women be brainwashed by feminism and not tell them the truth about the real roots of feminism and how most feminist in the end wish somebody had told the truth earlier. Furthermore, no Jewish newspapers even mentions the gener gap. They will tell you that more young people (although it is mostly men) vote republican, the religious, and Russians. They will not tell you that more men vote Republican.I only found this out by the way from a liberal Jewish newspaper the gender gap. None of the so called consevative Jewish newspapers ever mention it. Jewish women can vote liberal all they want because none of the so called conservative newspapers will ever mention it.
By the way JDL more women are involved politically then you think. In the last election 54% of who voted were actually women.
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I'll have to admit that I am very ignorant to who Betty Friedan is to be quite honest but I do relate to the rest of your post to be quite truthful. The sad fact is that there is little to now education offered within any medium media, social services and especially not academia to educate peoples as to what the various political ideologies mean or their respective histories. Combine this with the masses of "politically correct" disinformation continually promulgated by those mediums the result is what we see today.
Women tend to be more active then men as I fear minority groups will grow ever more quickly in the future as Ol-Whitey continues to become disgruntled, voiceless and powerless in todays highly controlled world. These aforementioned segments of society have become political focus groups. Even the Global Warming agenda is now targeting women and minorities.
The Feminist movement from its very inception was a product of the Communist thought and political process. The entire movement of the Left is based on Utopian mythology, disinformation and of course a power agenda. It is all about self gratification and power.
There is a very good website that you might like and I feel contains very important information that people should know. Hell even Karl Marx is still taught as being an economic genius even though all of his claims in Das Kapital have been debunked too neglecting to mention his deprave personal life and his even more vile political/social beliefs. Enjoy: http://www.paulbogdanor.com/left.html
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"Furthermore, no Jewish newspapers even mentions the gener gap. They will tell you that more young people (although it is mostly men) vote republican, the religious, and Russians. They will not tell you that more men vote Republican.I only found this out by the way from a liberal Jewish newspaper the gender gap. None of the so called consevative Jewish newspapers ever mention it. Jewish women can vote liberal all they want because none of the so called conservative newspapers will ever mention it."
Can you clarify yourself?
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It sounds like some Jewish women have become too 'white'. Whiteness is a real mental disorder which can cause an intense reaction of nausea and self-alienation towards oneself, because white culture is so depraved. The Jewish women must have been whitened as a result of assimilation.
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I think that what you are saying is primarily present among Ashkenazi women. If I’m not mistaken, unlike Sephardic Jews, Ashkenazi Jews raise girls as a guy should be raised and vice versa. That’s how you have got so many so-called Jewish (or mama’s) boys.
However, such thing does happen universally when men fail to act manly.
In Jewish history, failure of Jewish men to die for their homeland and, in general, take any risk, lead women to become stronger.
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I think that what you are saying is primarily present among Ashkenazi women. If I’m not mistaken, unlike Sephardic Jews, Ashkenazi Jews raise girls as a guy should be raised and vice versa. That’s how you have got so many so-called Jewish (or mama’s) boys.
However, such thing does happen universally when men fail to act manly.
In Jewish history, failure of Jewish men to die for their homeland and, in general, take any risk, lead women to become stronger.
I totally disagree with this position as with Fruit. The fact of the matter is..this entire ineptitude stems from Socialism. This is also why the attendance at Church is plummiting and Churches are going of for sale on a record number all over the West. It is the "progressive" educational system, the debauched media the screwed up Social System and destroyed family. Most of these "Jewish" people are descendants of Orthodox Jews who built businesses and the children have taken on the culture of the "progressive" goyim and have become Reform "Jews". This is not really a Goyim issue but a Socialist Issue that many Gentile and Jew alike have been taken in.
The glorification of Shvartism is repugnant to any thinking person... sadly jews and gentile alike are sucked in to "embracing diversity". It is all a part of "multi-culturalism" the socialist agenda to distroy culture by promoting all others but their own....
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Well, my friend, I think, what you said could be an interesting option, unless one important issue. In Soviet Union, there were predominantly "Christian" Republics and predominantly Muslim Republics. Ashkenazi Jews lived primarily in Christian Republics and Sephardics lived in Muslim Republics, and guess what, the level of Jewishness was higher among those who lived with Muslims. Even those few Ashkenazi Jews who lived in the Muslim South were more conservative.
So it's both ethnical and habitat reasons. And by the way, saying that socialism is more feministic culture than capitalism is a slight unawareness of what socialism is.
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This is also why the attendance at Church is plummiting and Churches are going of for sale on a record number all over the West.
I think, the situation with Christianity is way different from the problems of Western Jewry. There are too many factors to list in this forum.
G-d willing, one day we will all sit down and talk about it in a much broader and lively format.
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Now that I agree with. You do know that in the Soviet Communist Russia most of the Christian and Jewish leaders were thrown into the Gulags and had their churches turned into grain storage chambers, looted of their riches and sold to the west for farm machinery, weapons, Ford trucks. Dr. Antony Sutton writes at great lengths about this. I'd agree that religion thrived covertley but many Christians and Jews tragically either embraced the G-dless utopianism, were murdered or worked to death (same as murdered). You will also note that the Chief "Rabbi" and head Synagogue in Moscow was a KGB operation used to infiltrate and distroy the Jewish Community. Chaim often speaks about this as did Rabbi Kahane.
My great grand parents fled Tzarist Russia during the 1880's pogroms to England before the Communist Revolution. Russian Orthodoxy is making a come back but G0dless Communism/Socialism is still the ideology of choice recorded with record numbers of aids, drug and alcohol related deaths, record suicide, murder and internal strife.... What a vile ideology...
I do not see the problems between Western Jewry and Christianity that much different. They are both under constant attack from within and outside by "Reform" or "Progressive" thoughts from the internal like "Priests", "Ministers", "Reverands" and "Rabbis" for Same Sex Marriage, Feminism, Abortion, Affirmative Action and every Socialistic cause. Combine this with the 24 hour a day attacks by the Media, Liberal politicians and professional (Communist) Lobby/Agitator groups, "Progressive" Educational Systems indoctrinating children from the womb to the grave with Socialistic "Poltically correct" disinformation.... I see them both very much related.
You must be Christian no? If you are Christian you will very much enjoy the book "Fabian Freeway" by Rose Martin or perhaps many of the interviews with Dr. Stanley Monteith on Radio Liberty he deals with this sort of stuff weekly. Rose Martin's work is amazing as too "The Rise of Radicalism", but Martin's book delves into the British Fabian Society and its expansion into all of the old British Colonies of the former British Empire with the purpose of exporting subversivly Socialism. It mentions "The Christian Book Club" started by the Fabians (one of many but earlier started by the reading society in Germany in the 1760's: RE: "Proofs of Conspricay" - John Robbins) who hired/membered many phony Revs, Mins, Priests etc. to rewrite the Bible making it more "Socialistic" and too writing/rewriting many Christian texts/books/fiction etc. aimed at progressing the Socialist principals onto the benighted Christian readers.... of course this was just one step being part of a much more grand scheme still haunting us today... very good examples are the ACLU, CFR, NAACP, British Labor Party and of course their Socialist propagation medium the BBC...all connected to the British Fabian Society..
Those books will provide much needed knowledge to understand the Christian "Decline of the West" and place the religous, cultural, economic, civil, family and of course national breakdown we see today from a Christian perspective. Now if you wish to learn about the, as tragic, Jewish breakdown I'd strongly suggest three books: "To Eliminate the Opiate" by Rabbi Dr. Marvin S. Antelman (this book shows the communist/utopianists/secret society/occult movements that are working to undermine and distroy Judaism similarly to the Fabians, Jacobins, Rosicrucians, Christan Peace Makers, Christian Science and even Mormonism is today with Christianity division into 24000 "sects".) "From Time Immemorial" - Joan Peters and "Perfidy" - Ben Hecht which is available for free on the web from "Somebodyhelpme.Info"
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OK. Not going too deep into the problems of Christianity, I can say one thing - the first reform Jew was Jesus. Obviously, when you customize religion to meet your specific needs, the people who will later beleive in you will likely do the same with your edition of the religion. This happened to Christianity. Instead of people adapting to the law, the law was changed to adapt the people.
I can assure you that despite the KGB's involvement in "religios affairs" in Soviet Union, a lot of people to a diferent extent were trying to remain conservative and even religious; especially in the Muslim South. And I can tell you that in some way Jews have to be thankful to Muslims for helping them preserve the core principles of their culture.
Now, let's come back to the issue of women.
What I am trying to tell you is that Ashkenazi women, and even men do not accept patriarchy and have never accepted it. That is the core conflict with Jewish religion and philosophy.
As a brotherly advise, unless you are an alpha man, do not waste your time with non-religios Ashkenazi women. Your only choice is either religios Ashkenazi girls or Sephardic girls.
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OK. Not going too deep into the problems of Christianity, I can say one thing - the first reform Jew was Jesus. Obviously, when you customize religion to meet your specific needs, the people who will later beleive in you will likely do the same with your edition of the religion. This happened to Christianity. Instead of people adapting to the law, the law was changed to adapt the people.
I can assure you that despite the KGB's involvement in "religios affairs" in Soviet Union, a lot of people to a diferent extent were trying to remain conservative and even religious; especially in the Muslim South. And I can tell you that in some way Jews have to be thankful to Muslims for helping them preserve the core principles of their culture.
Now, let's come back to the issue of women.
What I am trying to tell you is that Ashkenazi women, and even men do not accept patriarchy and have never accepted it. That is the core conflict with Jewish religion and philosophy.
As a brotherly advise, unless you are an alpha man, do not waste your time with non-religios Ashkenazi women. Your only choice is either religios Ashkenazi girls or Sephardic girls.
Firstly, Jesus was a Pharasee (Rabbinical) Jew. Jesus would have been an Orthodox Jew and well learned in both Torah and the Oral Law not a deformed (Reform) Jew. All credable evidence places this issue in the earliest texts by Josephus Flavus which was obviously a distortion to carry favor with the now Christianized Romans.
The Laws are and always did stay the same and were never changed as the Torah states. To this day, not one word is changed in the Orthodox Hebrew Torah. If there is any mistake made upon the part of the scribe the entire scroll is blessed and distroyed. When the Torah is out of use it is blessed and burried. The Torah states any changes or persons trying to change the Law is a false G-d and a false Messiah. I beleive it is in the vacinity of Exodus 20.
What you have stated above is totally Christianity and nothing whatsoever dealing with Judaism. Abraham Geiger was the founder of Deformed Judaism, not Jesus. One might argue that the Hellenist rot during the time of Yahuda HaMaccabee were the first Deformed "Jews" due to their embracing Hellenism instead of Torah Judaism.
The only thing that Jews have to thank the Muslim horde for is oppression, forced converstion, sub-human taxation and treatment, exploitation when they need something, rape or murder. The Jews kept their core values because of Torah not because of any greasy Muslims. Any study of the Pale or Jewish history by any respectable author displays this. Christians, later too suffered similarly to the Jews at the hands of the Muslims...and still do today...
Sorry brother but you know nothing about Judaism my friend. We where the ones who gave women their rights and treated them with equality under G-d while all others were burning them, tossing them down wells when births happened to be female, exploiting them for sex slavery or worse. The issue you mention about the Patriarchial system was too adopted by Christianity and too distorted. I know of no female popes or any females to attain any respectful position in the Christian Church aside from a Nun. What you speak is solely the product of these, any women as it relates to Christian women as well... is their abandonment of morality, G-d and his teachings for G-dless liberalism and its materialist philosophy. Again nothing to do with Judaism...
Your advice is spot on as it relates to all women not Ashkenazism or Sephardim or Gentile.... A religious woman knows her place under HaShem as do religious men.
end...period...full stop...
:)
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What is damn liberal?
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What is damn liberal?
The whole of America and the UK >:( >:(
(joke ;D)
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And what is "Jdate"?
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Firstly, Jesus was a Pharasee (Rabbinical) Jew. Jesus would have been an Orthodox Jew and well learned in both Torah and the Oral Law not a deformed (Reform) Jew. All credable evidence places this issue in the earliest texts by Josephus Flavus which was obviously a distortion to carry favor with the now Christianized Romans.
I am not talking about the origin of Jesus, but his practical actions. He was the first to "reform" or "deform" Judaism.
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What you have stated above is totally Christianity and nothing whatsoever dealing with Judaism.
I think you should remove this prejudice by thinking that I might be Christian and that what drives me.
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What is damn liberal?
Smolim or peres, peretz, olmert, dana olmert, shalom acshav yesh g'vual they are liberals
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The only thing that Jews have to thank the Muslim horde for is oppression, forced converstion, sub-human taxation and treatment, exploitation when they need something, rape or murder.
1) Jews suffered much worse under Christians.
2) Jews assimilated more under Chistians. I don't care wether it's Socialism, Capitalism, or Alpinism.
3) Of course, Muslims did not treat Jews as kings. But who should treat you as a king, if you don't know your worth and don't defend yourself.
You want a fair treatment? Do not let anyone expel you from your homeland and be a king in your own land.
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We where the ones who gave women their rights and treated them with equality...
You were the ones, I was not one of you. And guess who is complaining now. Not me.
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Sorry brother but you know nothing about Judaism my friend.
You remember what HaRav Meir Kahane said about knowing and defaming?
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And let me ask you something, since it looks like you are very versed in history. Who libirated Israel? Were those Zionists religios or secular (reform etc.) Jews?
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The First Jews in Israel were orthodox.The first shomrim who guarsed israel were made up of mainly bucharian Jews who were religious
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I asked who primarily took part in liberating Israel from the British and Arabs in 1940's?
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And what is "Jdate"?
A dating site for Jews, as far as I am aware.
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I think you should remove this prejudice by thinking that I might be Christian and that what drives me.
Nothing prejudice whatsoever...look at your name... it is only a logical guess.
1) Jews suffered much worse under Christians.
2) Jews assimilated more under Chistians. I don't care wether it's Socialism, Capitalism, or Alpinism.
3) Of course, Muslims did not treat Jews as kings. But who should treat you as a king, if you don't know your worth and don't defend yourself.
You want a fair treatment? Do not let anyone expel you from your homeland and be a king in your own land.
Very much true but also debatable actually. Perhaps longer under Christians. At certain times and better under Christians other times worse.... back and forth my friend...back and forth. When times were harsh under Christianity many Jews fled to the Arab States. A good example is the Jews under the Ottoman Empire. When Islam was harsh the reverse situation occured. You are largely accurate. "Jews of Islam" - Bernard Lewish and "The Dhimmi" - Bat Yeor are two very good books on this specific subject. 2) Is not true at all unless one is speaking about forced conversions... As a matter of fact one need not look further than the Emancipation/Enlightenment under Germany or France for which many Jews left their faith primarily from Christian anti-semitism, Ghettos and Czarist Pogroms in Russia for which many turned to Judaism and Communism: the concept of Deformed Judaism is the prime example. 3) I'm not going to entertain this comment... sorry.
You were the ones, I was not one of you. And guess who is complaining now. Not me.
I am not complaining whatsoever, just displaying a factual response. I do not mean to be rude but pointing out fact....It was Judaism who invented the concepts of morality and equality between Men and Woman under HaShem.
You remember what HaRav Meir Kahane said about knowing and defaming?
Not defaming whatsoever, just pointing out a blatant fact of reality by your earlier posts and position re: Judaism. Not defaming.... stating fact...and to I was direct and polite in doing such to be quite honest.
I asked who primarily took part in liberating Israel from the British and Arabs in 1940's?
In the 1940's it was the Revisionists under Begin and Yitzak Shamir both formerly under Jabbotinsky while the Labor Zionists (Jewish Socialists) under Gurion's Mapai Party controlled the Hagganah who turned them on the Revisionists while working for the British to keep Zion closed during WW2. In all actuality it was the followers of Jabbotinsky that liberated Zion from the British. It was their bombing of the King David Hotel and other Military targets to drive out the British..... Is that acceptable?
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In the 1940's it was the Revisionists under Begin and Yitzak Shamir both formerly under Jabbotinsky while the Labor Zionists (Jewish Socialists) under Gurion's Mapai Party controlled the Hagganah who turned them on the Revisionists while working for the British to keep Zion closed during WW2. In all actuality it was the followers of Jabbotinsky that liberated Zion from the British. It was their bombing of the King David Hotel and other Military targets to drive out the British..... Is that acceptable?
Brilliant. They were not orthodox Jews, were they?
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Some were and some were Right wing Nationalists. Most of the religious ones stayed in the Irgun while those from the nationalist camp split and went to the Lahey.
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So, you don't think that one has to be orthodox and "know Judaism" in order to love Jews, love Israel, and be ready to fight and die for Israel?
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Do you know what I never understood? Why are there so many liberal Orthodox Jews? I mean... how can you make that work with the Bible? I could understand if they were Reform... but Orthodox? I never understood this. Perhaps it's not this way in Israel.
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My Iranian born brother in law is an observant Jew, and an Islamophile, who thinks American culture is degenerate. He LOVED Yitzkhak Rabin, and is all in favor of giving up land to the Arabs.
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So, you don't think that one has to be orthodox and "know Judaism" in order to love Jews, love Israel, and be ready to fight and die for Israel?
One has to be Orthodox to know Torah true Judaism as well the Oral Law all of which is largely missed within the Conservative and Deformed "Jewish" movements. That, of course, is not needed to love Jews, love Israel and ready to fight and die for the Land....The Land of Israel..NOT the State. To be honest I'm very well versed in factually correct and "poltically correct" history but still largely an ignoramus in Judaism...but still continually learning.
Do you know what I never understood? Why are there so many liberal Orthodox Jews? I mean... how can you make that work with the Bible? I could understand if they were Reform... but Orthodox? I never understood this. Perhaps it's not this way in Israel.
It is because they are ignorant to many social and political ideologies in my opinion. They may be frauds and they may well be very well knowledge in Judaism but on the take and corrupt. This is solely my opinion. In all actuality it cannot work because all Leftist ideologies are based on the substitution of man/state in the place of the Eternal One: HaShem be it Liberalism, Socialism, Fascism, Nazism or Communism.... Of course, like Nazism and many others combines traditional socialism with pagan Gnosticism.... I'd say it exists because Jews who study Torah attempt to switch and learn outside of the pale and get taken in by the massive bombardment of "politically correct" agenda and not factually correct moral/logical Conservatism...
My Iranian born brother in law is an observant Jew, and an Islamophile, who thinks American culture is degenerate. He LOVED Yitzkhak Rabin, and is all in favor of giving up land to the Arabs.
Sorry, I must say that your brother in-law is benighted. He may be observant but he is a very good example of my post above of learned Jews attempting to enter into logic outside the moral pale. Rabin was a Socialist with a massive Labor media complex behind him to "progress" the Socialist agenda. Many people have no idea what Liberalism, Socialism, Fascism, Nazism, Communism etc. actually are, their agenda, their pillars and how they work. Give your brother inlaw any number of books to understand what really is happening to get a grasp on the illness of his thought. 1. "To Eliminate The Opiate" - Rabbi Marvin Antelman 2. "Fabian Freeway" - Rose Martin 3. "The Rise of Radicalism", 3. "World War 3 the War on the Jews" - Eugene Narrett 4. "Shadows of Power" - Perloff 5. "The Hidden Government" - Dan Smoot 6. "The Naked Communist/Capitalists" - C. Skousen.... From the leftwing "Tragedy & Hope"/"The Ango-American Establisment" - C. Quigley, or "Fire in the Minds of Men".... The best books are by Dr. Antony Sutton or "New Lies for Old" - Golitsyn... Enjoy... it is a very touchy but very important topic that all must have a very good grasp on in this day of such debasement...
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What bothers me is that Orthodox Jews, with all due respect to them, were scholar and observant, but they were observant in exile, and did almost nothing to reinstate the state of Israel. They were even condemning Zionists some time ago. Now, if you don't like the goyim nation you lived in, you could do two things: a) go back to Israel, b) stop saying that you are more Jewish than others. But they did neither of those.
Thus, my point is - Rely on G-d, but don't screw up yourself.
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What bothers me is that Orthodox Jews, with all due respect to them, were scholar and observant, but they were observant in exile, and did almost nothing to reinstate the state of Israel. They were even condemning Zionists some time ago. Now, if you don't like the goyim nation you lived in, you could do two things: a) go back to Israel, b) stop saying that you are more Jewish than others. But they did neither of those.
Thus, my point is - Rely on G-d, but don't screw up yourself.
I don't know where you get off saying this stuff quite frankly. Many Orthodox Jews were a part of the Revisionist movement under Jabbotinsky. The only reason you don't hear about them is because Israel and the Jewish Establisment, plus all..or most... of the media is run by the Socialists Left. A good example of their censorship can be noticed now with them trying to take Michael Savage off the air.... You are thinking of the Hassidim not the Orthodox Jews.... Many Orthodox Jews like Rabbi Meir Kahane were fully behind the Religious Zionist camp with Jabbotinsky. I have NEVER said I was more Jewish than anyone else. I have no problem with going back to Israel and I shall do so in the near future. I do more than rely on G-d as we are supposed to do deed as well as faith. Believe me, I am not screwing up myself. As a matter of fact, if you ask my Member of Parliament I'm probably more supportive of Canada as a Christian nation than 99% of most Christians in Canada. So I do not know where you are coming from with these insults..
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It's not a Jewish women problem, it's a general problem with all women. They tend to be mostly liberal.
As a response to saintaugusto, you shouldn't be so quick to criticize the past generations. 1-Some religious Jews and Rabbis were bigger Zionists that the secular and the Irgun and Haganah which were mostly religious undergound movements were the ones who did the dirty work that liberated Israel. Without them, we might not have a state today. 2-Before the Crusades, thousands of religious Jews lived in Israel but during the Crusades they were driven out or killed. 3-You have no clue what life was like 100 years ago. We are pampered compared to these Jews. They were too busy doing whatever they can to stay alive and make a meager living to support a religious family than to think about taking over Israel, which took months of travel to get to and was basically a barren land with hostile Arabs. Even thought what they did was wrong, you and I would not have done any better. Trust me. For example, I am pretty sure that my great grandfather Zs'l was in Kishenov during the progrom there at the turn of the century. You blame these people who had so much suffering and problems for not taking on a very risky and dangerous venture?
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I don't blame. I just deem it weird that only Jews were expelled from their homeland so many times and no one else.
What I am suggesting is, instead of dividing Jews into orthodox and reform, conservative and modern, lets unite. There are only 15 million of us left.
We need to unite not based on what Halakha we have, but on the fact that we are children of One G-d and One Land.
That is, the uniting factors must be Faith and Nationalism. And not how religious you are. Trust me, if Israel becomes a safer place for all Jews, orthodox or conservative Jews will become majority sooner or later, thanks to their faith and lifestyle.
So lets not divide something that we dont have yet. Priority now is to save Israel. And for that we have to unite.
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And coming back to the women issue... In order for women to act like women, men have to act like men. And please don't tell me that Torah doesn't appoint men as superior to women. You don't have to be a Rabbi to figure this out.
Men have to rule and hold at least 51% in a family. Period.
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And by the way, sorry, if I mislead anyone, I'm not Christian. I'm a Jew (Sephardic+Ashkenazi).
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And coming back to the women issue... In order for women to act like women, men have to act like men. And please don't tell me that Torah doesn't appoint men as superior to women. You don't have to be a Rabbi to figure this out.
Men have to rule and hold at least 51% in a family. Period.
I agree. Even some religious women don't seem to understand that men are supposed to rule the household.
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You are Jewish? Why do you not study Judaism and Jewish history so you will not have to ask such questions with such an anti-Israel, anti-Jewish, illogical and benighted tone to them? Believe me, I'm no fan of the Government of the State of Israel nor our "Jewish" Organizations as they are not Jewish but Socialist in nature and do a great disservice to morality, Jewry, Israel and any G-d fearing moral abiding individual..
To answer your questions above, aside from Judaism not being a prostylitizing (spelling) religion, Israel was not an Nation that had its goals in building an expansive Empire like the Egyptians, Hittite, Assyrian, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Caliphate, Mongols or even the British. Israel, as per location, sits in the middle of all of these peoples/nations with intentions on expanding their domination so logically the Jews/Israel stood in the way of this expansion and thus, logically, were exiled. Israel, from my understanding was never a military society but one of building internally but always made alliances with any potential enemy to save agaisnt anther expansive enemy as seen with Egypt and Assyria or Babylonia...
Perhaps, if as you say and I happen to agree with, the Jews of then and today had been united in borders, language and culture (from Savage) with real input in a dominant IDF (Defense Force) History might have turned out different as today it would have been different if Israel had annexed out right all the land from the purely defensive war in 1967 and "transfered" all the Muslims...today a fifth column as the Nazi's were in Austria and Czech during WW2. Sadly we still pay the price... PS: logic stems from not only the Torah but Sun Tsu's "The Art of War" and Macciavelli's "The Prince". Logical in fact.
You are largely correct as well about the Patriarchial system as it is also adopted by Christians and Muslims albeit Judaism affords far more liberties to woman than the latter especially Islam. Judaism sees woman and men different but equal under G-d. This is both logical and moral considering simply the biological differences. There are things that women can do better than men logically based upon gender/biology as there are things men can do better than women.....in the vast majority of situations. This is logical and has nothing to do with sexism or "feminism"...etc.
Women in Judaism can be scholors but not Rabbis of which a good example is the Chabud site Www.AskMoses.Com.
Judaism is the only faith that affords women moral and logical rights in its tennents re: Torah-Talmud while all others do not. Islam is the prime example of the reverse as women are comparable to dirt, sin and should be covered.....not seen and not heard...
I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful at all. Should you have any questions please ask. We all learn by asking questions not by blind statements.
Personally, I do not believe you are Jewish at all as per your chosen name "Saintaugusto". Should you be Jewish than pose questions concerning what you have learned and wish to either have validation or an ulternative logic/thought supplied. If you are Christian than do the same. If you are a member of StørmFrønt or some ignoramus anti-semitic ultra-Leftist group....please say so and then we can get this debate on and over with as painlessly as possible as I do not tolerate intolerance and I am very closed minded to closed mindedness.... I hope you understand my concern and my logic.... :)
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And coming back to the women issue... In order for women to act like women, men have to act like men. And please don't tell me that Torah doesn't appoint men as superior to women. You don't have to be a Rabbi to figure this out.
Men have to rule and hold at least 51% in a family. Period.
I agree. Even some religious women don't seem to understand that men are supposed to rule the household.
This is not Jewish thinking.
If we look at the story of creation, we see that after the human being has been created, G-d determines that the human being needs "a helpmate" but Eve isn't created yet. Instead, all the animals are created and Adam is asked to name them. And then it says something very strange in the Bible, "... but for Adam no fitting helpmate was found." Why on earth does is say this? What lesson is there to learn?
Why wasn't Adam happy with an animal for a helpmate? Because an animal is subordinate to man. It's not his equal. Adam was commanded earlier to "Have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth." So Adam couldn't overcome his loneliness and find true love with a subordinate being over whom he ruled.
The Bible says this helpmate is to be "kenegdo". The Hebrew word kenegdo means "against, opposite, parallel to." Although the passage is often mistranslated in English as "I will make a fitting helpmate for him," the Hebrew ACTUALLY says, "I will make a fitting helpmate *against* him." G-d intends that Adam's helpmate be someone who (in a very positive, respectful way) will stand opposite him and engage him on parallel ground.
An animal may be a great thing to help Adam out with his work but because they are subordinate, he can't truly love them. You can't love without that type of mutual respect.
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Very good response Jeffguy...
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"Anti-Jewish thinking". Yeah right. Jeffguy, G-d said to Eve after she sinned with the tree of life that one of her curses was that "he will rule over you" (Genesis 3:16). So the bible clearly states that the man is supposed to be the ruler of the household.
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That was a curse. We aren't supposed to make the curse the ideal.
That's like saying we should get rid of air-conditioners while men work so we can earn bread by the sweat of our brow... or like saying we should stop giving women in delivery pain killers so they will have their pain multiplied.
We are supposed to fix the curse... not embrace it! G-d forbid.
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I'd like to know the Rabbinical/ Talmudic ruling on this actually...
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That was a curse. We aren't supposed to make the curse the ideal.
That's like saying we should get rid of air-conditioners while men work so we can earn bread by the sweat of our brow... or like saying we should stop giving women in delivery pain killers so they will have their pain multiplied.
We are supposed to fix the curse... not embrace it! G-d forbid.
That's your interpuitation but it is not accepted by any Jewish commentators or Scholars. They all agree that the man must be the ruler of the household. To answer your question, if G-d tells you something, you must fulfill it whether it was a curse or a blessing. You can't skip over the sad depressing parts of the Bible and only fulfill only the happy sections or those parts you like. G-d's will must be fulfilled. There is no excuse by not fulfilling it because it was a curse. G-d said that HE will greatly increase the pain of childbearing. You are not violating that statement by giving pain killers, since G-d himself said that he will increase the pain of childbearing and he can do whatever he wants, whether you take medication or not. Secondly, even with medication, childbearing was much easier before the curse. If he said that "you must increase your childbearing pain" then she can't take excessive medication, but it was not said in that way. Similarly, G-d stated that "he will rule over you". That's what G-d said and it must be fulfilled. It makes no difference if it was a curse or a blessing, there was no condition attached to this so it is an eternal commandment. The reason why the man must be the ruler of the household is probably due to the woman sinning with the tree of knowledge and that pointed out a defect in a woman's nature that makes her unfit to be the leader of the household.
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You are Jewish? Why do you not study Judaism and Jewish history so you will not have to ask such questions with such an anti-Israel, anti-Jewish, illogical and benighted tone to them?
I think, you should slow down a little. What authority did you take upon yourself? In other words, who are you to tell me this?
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Israel, as per location, sits in the middle of all of these peoples/nations with intentions on expanding their domination so logically the Jews/Israel stood in the way of this expansion and thus, logically, were exiled.
Really? I think, I kinda figured it out on my own. What I am saying, my friend, I don't care what their intentions were. You just don't leave your homeland like this. If the whole nation had to die - fine! - at least we would die as men, and not as those who try to explain the intentions of the enemies.
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I most certainly can ask of such as many of your statements and questions are of the same logic some stormfronter would use. Excuse me if I am wrong as it is the tone and position of earlier statements that were posted that allowed me to come to this conclusion. This is what gives me the authority. I have always tried to be kind and too polite......
Secondly....it is very logical to leave your lands when a massive, highly armed force invades your nation, killing, raping, robbing, enslaving, murdering.... The Armenian massacre is a very good example of a semi-similar modern expulsion...
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Perhaps, if as you say and I happen to agree with, the Jews of then and today had been united in borders, language and culture... PS: logic stems from not only the Torah but Sun Tsu's "The Art of War" and Macciavelli's "The Prince". Logical in fact.
A-ha, so you do agree with me on this. The hope is not lost.
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I do agree. If Israel happened to have a militarily competant army and was a military based society like Rome, Sparta, Carthage etc. then History may have been very different not only for Israel but the entire world..... Many other societies and cultures had massive military societies but all collapsed...all had no moral compass, were illiterate and lacked a basis for a civil society.... ;)
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You are largely correct as well about the Patriarchial system as it is also adopted by Christians and Muslims albeit Judaism affords far more liberties to woman than the latter especially Islam.
Wow, you agree with me on this too. I guess, we both think as storefronters then?
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Islam is the prime example of the reverse as women are comparable to dirt, sin and should be covered.....not seen and not heard...
I am not familiar with this interpretation. I know that Muslim women cover themselves not to provoke sexual thoughts in men, other than their husband.
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No, not at all....... As I said earlier....some topics came accross as questionable while others not... One of your previous posts you had negated and vilified Judaism because of its Patriarchial system as well the statements on Ashkenaz women....which I did not agree with..and came accross qustionable... There are many passages that relate women in a very negative light.... Www.ProphetofDoom.Net or http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/Surai.htm
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Should you have any questions please ask.
I would encourage you to do the same.
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I will....when I have some. Please remember that I was not the one that came on here making statements about Jewish Women and Judaism....for two example... I will do the same my friend.. I will do so. ;)
I do have a question... How did you hear of JTF?
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Personally, I do not believe you are Jewish at all as per your chosen name "Saintaugusto".
That we will discuss when you finish your homework. Trust me, I remember how it was in the elementary school.
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What was it you said about Rabbi Kahane and Debating? With comments like this my friend... you will not get along well on JTF.... You will note from the highlighted portion of my statement (above)...that it was both logical....
PS: I am well above an elementary level my friend....
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This is not Jewish thinking.
Of course, it is not.
1) It is not Jewish to refer to G-d as He and not her, for example.
2) It is not Jewish to have all prophets male.
3) It is not Jewish to have only male rabbis.
4) It is not Jewish to think that the Covenant is executed through circumcision of boys.
Indeed not Jewish.
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This is not Jewish thinking.
Of course, it is not.
1) It is not Jewish to refer to G-d as He and not her, for example.
2) It is not Jewish to have all prophets male.
3) It is not Jewish to have only male rabbis.
4) It is not Jewish to think that the Covenant is executed through circumcision of boys.
Indeed not Jewish.
What was that about Genesis 17:10-11?
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What was it you said about Rabbi Kahane and Debating? With comments like this my friend... you will not get along well on JTF....
You have just broke my heart. I don't know where you stand in JTF, but your authoritarianism and megalomania have already turned me off from supporting it.
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not whatsoever my friend. Always remember it was you who came on here, not to make friends, not to ask questions, not to learn but to insult the Ashkenzim women, insult Judaism, insulting me, saying Jews owe their faith to the Muslims or some such ineptness...... again.. I do not think I am wrong... not at all. I am emphatically not a control freak. You have initiated either a debate or attack..... not..... i repeat not... a civil conversation... Even if you look back on any and all of my posts.. I have not attacked you... not whatsoever.. but posted out of logic and a moral conclusion based on your earlier posts....
Do you wish to start all over? How are you brother... Welcome to the JTF forum. I hope you have a good time posting and making friends.... Shabbat Shalom my friend... ;)
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This is not Jewish thinking.
Of course, it is not.
1) It is not Jewish to refer to G-d as He and not her, for example.
2) It is not Jewish to have all prophets male.
3) It is not Jewish to have only male rabbis.
4) It is not Jewish to think that the Covenant is executed through circumcision of boys.
Indeed not Jewish.
Have you ever read the Bible?
What you are saying doesn't make sense. That's like saying it's not Buddhist that Buddha is a male.
Also, pronouns are an English/Latin thing.
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Always remember it was you who came on here...
Did I come to your home? I am sorry.
... not to make friends, not to ask questions, not to learn but to insult the Ashkenzim, insult Judaism, attack and defame
What are you talking about? My mother is Ashkenazi. That's one. Secondly, I was responding to your thread, my friend, where you were concerned why the modern Jewish women are so liberal. And I told you why. You don't accept it? Great! Disagree, argue, but you were the one who started insults.
The subject of women is important, and if you are concerned, but don't want to learn, well, try to fight Socialism then.
But I hope there are others who will learn from my words.
Brothers, be men! Men have to rule, not as dictators, but as good managers, whom women would want to follow. The last word must always be yours. Women like that, women need that. Don't pay attention to the complaints of inequality etc. Women need to be lead.
If you don't trust me, continue fighting Socialism.
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...saying Jews owe their faith to the Muslims or some such ineptness...
You know that you did a big sin now? This is a slander. I have never said that. I said that Jews assimilated more under Chistians than under Msulims.
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Have you ever read the Bible?
O, boy... The situation is more serious here than I thought.
Do you disagree with all aspects, or only one, I am not getting it?
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Liberal ideas, on the surface, provide an easy way out and don't require hard work like conservative ones. Conservatives solve problems while liberals put a bandaid on them.
I think that's an oversimplification. Both sides have the potential for having extremist views and for coming up with overly simplistic views for complex situations.
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Brother, it is ok to disagree and that is what we have done. I have not insulted you first...and if you feel I did, I am sorry because I try never to insult but to lay facts, logic that are too morally based when they can be. The sad fact is that Socialism is not based on logic, facts nor morals.
The comment about assimilation under Christianity/Islam too is debatable depending on times. When Islam was violent, as in the 7th century many Jews were converted or murdered as too under Christianity during the days of the Inquisition etc. I will concede your point to be largely...debatable but correct.
About women need to be lead... I agree with that to a very large extent as the ideology of Feminism largely contra to this which has brought about the destruction of the family as a whole.
I am glad to hear of your Ashkenaz family. Why did you choose the name "Saintaugusto" as it sounds to be Catholic etc.?
Happy posting...
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Wow, looks like someone deleted my account... accidentally, I hope.
My mother is Ashkenazi, and father is Sephardic. The nationality/ethnicity among Sephardic Jews is deteremined by the father. Thus I can say I am Sephardic.
This is diffirent in Ashkenazi families.
If I'm not mistaken, the rule "You are Jewish if your mother is Jewsh" was adopted by European Jews in 19th century to prevent Jewish men from marrying out of religion.
Indeed, according to Torah, the Covenant between G-d and Jews is realized through brit milah. It says that Abraham circumsized all men in his household, and I assume, women become Jewish automatically, since they were inseparable part of men.
Even Jewish names are built on the principle of recognition of the father only. E.g. "David ben Moshe" or "Milka bat Rambam". Nowhere does it mention the mother.
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I chose the screen name Saint Augusto simply because I was born in August. Saint has nothing to do with Christianity. I rather sarcastically call August a saint month because many great men were born in August, and thus are Leos. Rabbi Meir Kahane is an example. Not to forget Alexander Macedonian, Napoleon etc.
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And more, I was born and raised in Soviet Union. The practical realization of Socialism in real life was painfully witnessed by me.
Feminism is a self-destruction for women. I can say more, feminism does to women a horrible thing. Feminism makes women men.
I truly believe that a large catalyzer for some men, usually morally weak, to turn to homosexuality is feminism.
Indeed, women today are very similar to conventional men: they drink, they smoke, they curse, they sleep around, they cheat etc.
Isn't it the conventional image of men? Isn't it what women used to complain about men? And now they "won the right" to be complained about.
At the same time many men today tend to "improve" by avoiding the conventional image of men: they quit smoking, drinking, cheating etc. And guess what, the modern women don't rush to appreciate that. They call it "too gay".
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At the same time, I don't blame women for feminism.
I truly beleive that feminism could not develop without the approval of men.
I would say more - feminism is a product of those men, who wanted a free and easy sex.
And they got it. Now you can use women as you wish and have no obligations. You don't have to marry them, and no one will punish you for that like centuries ago.
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I cannot confirm that Socialism is more feministic than, lets say, Capitalism. Do not forget, there was no Sexual Revolution in Communist countries. Erotica and pornography were simply banned there. In fact, Western-made erotic & porn movies were considered one of the tools of struggle for the destruction of Soviet Union by the West.
Export of the so-called American way of life to third world countries is deemed to be very "effective" in demoralizing masses.
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I happen to agree with much of what you say. Sadly, the Communsits/Socialists/Utopianists are behind all of this feminism, homosexual, porno and moral degeneracy movements here and their export worldwide. You will enjoy "New Lies for Old" by Golitsyn. It is very good. The tribe is Paternal while "Jewishness" is Maternal and always was.
You are right about the porno thing and banning of most liberties when Communism took root in Russia but sadly the Marxist teachings from his, Engles and The League of the Just's "Manifesto" too root and distroyed that nation. Even more sadly is that these intellectual Utopianists will not let the ideolgy die as it should be but continue to toy with it to "progress" it onto the world.
The reason why I asked about the "Saint" part is because in accordance to dictionary based definitions, a Saint is a person who is recognized as having attained a high level of holiness, however the Bible has a different definition. The word itself means “Holy” and is derived from the Latin “sanctus”. It is predominantly used within Christian religions, which have specific usages for the term depending on the denomination involved. The concept originates in early Greek Christian literature with the use of the word "hagios" (Greek meaning "holy" or "holy ones") and in the New Testament, where it is used to describe the followers of Jesus of Nazareth....
There is only one truth...
Here is some good logic for you that I do hope you enjoy.
Perush HaMaccabbi by Rav Meir Kahane HY"D
One may ask, why did G-d create beings strange in their skin color, which causes separation and hatred, and why didn't He create all beings of the same skin color? Also, why did He create different nations, which also separates humanity by nationality, language and culture? Also, why did He create people of different intellect levels? In short, why didn't He create all people to be equal in body and ability? The answer to this is that uniformity of all humanity could lead to disaster if all the world united under one evil government with an evil culture. And so G-d separated the nations, to prevent the congregation of evil people, which is bad for the world. But there is another reason: Just as G-d created Man with an evil inclination, so that his purpose in this world would be to overcome it and thus elevate himself and become holy (something which the angels cannot do, because that is how they were created---holy without an evil inclination, immune to temptation, hence they cannot earn merit), thus did G-d want the world to reach love and fellowship despite the separation and differences; He wanted that we will learn to overcome the differences and love a fellow human being without considering his nationality or skin color. And obviously, all this as long as a person accepts upon himself the basic conditions of the seven commandments of Noah, and even then it is impossible to realize complete love and unity, unless a person discovers the complete truth---G-d's Torah---and converts [to Judaism].
There is another important reason for the physical separation of humanity: in our turbulent and crazy times, when all moral restraints are removed, all logic is blurred, self-love and the pursuit of lust and selfishness gave rise to the spread of an ideology of equality which reached the horror of erasing the differences between Good and Evil, Truth and Falsehood, Light and Darkness. And since the confused person doesn't know what is the Truth, and furthermore DOESN'T WANT any truth that will curb his lust and limit his total freedom, which means total abandonment and depravity, Man has invented the idea that, in reality, there is no objective "truth", but rather everything is relative, and each culture finds its own truth, and there is no one who has the authority to say what is the "truth". And obviously, this foolishness leads, in the end, according to his "logic", to the silencing of any criticism, even criticism of the most terrible deeds ever committed. After all, who is to decide what is "terrible"? That is why G-d came and demonstrated the existence of real and OBJECTIVE differences between various concepts and ideas, by creating tangible physical differences between human beings, to teach us that just as one person is different from his fellow human being in skin color, nationality, body and intellect, so too exist REAL differences between ideas and concepts.
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Jeff Guy Wrote:
) It is not Jewish to refer to G-d as He and not her, for example.
Well actually we don't believe g-d is male or female we believe he is a combination of both male and female attributes. In english sometimes it is said g-d is male but that is just a translation.
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I have to disagree with you Adam. The Torah/Tanach always refer to HaShem in the masculin as "He" or "Him" etc. as shown above in the Perush HaMaccabbi.
I agree with you that HaShem displays both masculin and feminin which for very logical reasons of compassion, joy, peace, grace etc. while also the masculin in the times of judgement, war, hate and dealing with evilness. My two cents... ;)
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How about the fact that G-d created Adam in His own image, and Eve He created as a derivative from Adam?
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Jeff Guy Wrote:
) It is not Jewish to refer to G-d as He and not her, for example.
Well actually we don't believe g-d is male or female we believe he is a combination of both male and female attributes. In english sometimes it is said g-d is male but that is just a translation.
When did I ever say this?? I never said G-d was male or female. G-d is complete.
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Feminism makes women men.
No, it makes them fat men. :D
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How about the fact that G-d created Adam in His own image, and Eve He created as a derivative from Adam?
You know Saint, I really believe that you will truly enjoy Rabbi Meir Kahane's amazing work "The Jewish Idea" which deals with this exact statemet/postion in Torah, Talmudic and true Jewish logic/reasoning...
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MarZutra, you are saying that Jewishness is determined by mother. I know, this notion prevails in nowadays. I spoke to a couple of Rabbis, and no one could clearly define the source of it. When I mentioned how Abraham converted his family members and slaves/servants by circumsizing men and doing nothing with women, they (the rabbis) were utterly confused. Indeed those women became Jewish automatically.
Using this logic, the father must be Jewish for a kid to be Jewish.
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How about the fact that G-d created Adam in His own image, and Eve He created as a derivative from Adam?
You know Saint, I really believe that you will truly enjoy Rabbi Meir Kahane's amazing work "The Jewish Idea" which deals with this exact statemet/postion in Torah, Talmudic and true Jewish logic/reasoning...
I am, in fact, searching for this book. Any suggestions where to find it?
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How about the fact that G-d created Adam in His own image, and Eve He created as a derivative from Adam?
You know Saint, I really believe that you will truly enjoy Rabbi Meir Kahane's amazing work "The Jewish Idea" which deals with this exact statemet/postion in Torah, Talmudic and true Jewish logic/reasoning...
I am, in fact, searching for this book. Any suggestions where to find it?
You can buy it from Kahanebooks: http://www.kahanebooks.com/jewishidea.php (http://www.kahanebooks.com/jewishidea.php). And yes, I don't want to buy anything from Ha'Ivri either, but there may be no alternative. It's in two volumes, and amazon only seems to have the first one. The Jewish Legion may have it, I emailed them about it earlier today, and they haven't gotten back to me yet.
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you can buy it on Amazon or Abe books...
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MarZutra, you are saying that Jewishness is determined by mother. I know, this notion prevails in nowadays. I spoke to a couple of Rabbis, and no one could clearly define the source of it. When I mentioned how Abraham converted his family members and slaves/servants by circumsizing men and doing nothing with women, they (the rabbis) were utterly confused. Indeed those women became Jewish automatically.
Using this logic, the father must be Jewish for a kid to be Jewish.
As I said, Kahane's book attends to this specific topic. I really care not to bother engage in another debate as I feel you are only here to make trouble and try to disprove or create stress. I'd, to be quite honest, not wish to bother. I have given you a very good work for you to read. Then all your questions will be attended to.
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Thank you, MarZutra, I largerly understood your position.
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Thank you, MarZutra, I largerly understood your position.
You are very welcome. I hope you pursue this knowledge as it is worthy..
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you can buy it on Amazon or Abe books...
Well, Amazons only has the first volume and Abe books only has used ones.
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part of the problem as i see it here, is the location of where one ' is' in order to be geographically challenged so to speak. For example, where i live, there are not many jewish males from which to choose from. the ones that are available are liberal and/or reform. they are jewish in name only so to speak. This puts us females/males in a connumdrum. Either you move to a more appropriate place to meet the kind of right wing person you are seeking or are left out in the cold.
I, because of my age, 51, will most likely remain single for the rest of my life now. While this dismays me to some extent, i can not relocate for financial reasons like many on here are unable to do so also.
If one is truly looking for a right wing spouse, they would do well to search places like crown heights, brooklyn or borough park, Israel, etc. depending upon what you seek.
I think most dating sites are fraught with liars, cons, non-jews posing as jews in order to hope to find someone who will not care ( i have heard gentile females seeking a jewish male simply because they have heard they make better partners and visa-versa) and people who claim to be people something they are not.
For the most part, right wing sites are your best bet instead of places like jdate ( yeeccch) and the others. Temple organizations may be of help to make arrangments shiddichs or push you in the right direction at least. it helps to let others know that you are looking for a particular type.
at least I had a chance at it and have a 22 yr old son who i am grateful for Hashem gave me. There is a place called twentyfoursix.com that is a networking place that seems to be for more religious or right wingers but i do not know what kind of success anyone has had on there.
as we women age, and gain more knowledge, many of us become more right wing as we gain some wisdom hopefully. it also depends upon the upbringing from the womans family. What we have seen here is a dumbing down of USA jews and women in favor for a secular upbringing and the idea to have it all from the 1960-70's by betty friedan's book, 'the femine mystique'.
that and coupled with economic need for many women the need to work for 2 incomes to get by in this day and age from inflation woes has caused women to forgo religion for more economic moves. much to our chagrin, this has backfired/backlashed to some extent and left many women forgoing family values and children. This is also owed to the fact that this society/ America, is considered developed and population appears to have evened out.
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Jo-bella, excellent post. I hope you start posting in here more often. Good stuff.
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I agree with Jeff. It's also nice to see another woman post here.
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thank you jeff and lisa
I studied this idea also and wondered why the same thing myself. sadly i was a apart of the female generation that was sold a bill of goods for the trade off of ''achievement'' vs ''family values & religion''. And the left wingers who thought places like Israel and Judiasm were no longer relevant or taboo in this so-called modern era. I remember my own mother telling me no one goes to Israel in their right mind when i was in my teens....she alone turned me off to the idea and the entire notion of judaism and basically would make fun of people who were religious. Later on in life, i think she regreted this way of thinking when she saw how misguided some of her children turned out.....my cousin had it much worse than i did in california.
sadly, we lost much along the way of ''women's lib'' and the burning of the bra era during the 1960's, protests, etc., birth control pill, and abortion rights in 1969. The one person who was responsible for the deciding vote in favor of the 1969 ruling in roe v. wade in ny, was roberta krupsak, who was a deciding vote. her vote alone passed the bill for nys.
in response to women not wanting to be so religious anymore during this era, they actually demanded the men stop being so religious also. this created a vicious cycle. women wanted a more secular lifestyle, abandoned and actually made fun of religious men and we began marrying outside to intergrate. this happened all within less than 70 years if you count from the first wave during the 1880's to the usa/canada.....the second wave of immgration was 1900's.
Also this way of thinking was carried from the old country too though, reform judaism began in germany and many germans came to usa/canada and brought with them this way of thinking. a new country, a new way of thinking to cast off anti-semetism.
all it did was substitute money for religion, and left us even more aling for our Hashem. ??? ??? :'(
american/canadians females jews became spoiled and worshiped money for those who abandoned the religious thinking. now we see the fall out as to what is left for conservative, reform, jews. I became a victim of the same thinking until i wondered what it was that i was missing in my life.....sadly for me it is too late because i am too old now and my child bearing years have long since left me. I can however be a living testament to what happens when you choose a secular lifetstyle. you miss out greatly on a joyus relation with our creator......
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Shalom Jo-Bella. Good to see you here posting and bringing more logic, facts and morality.... Very good. I agree with your perception and your reasoning. In short would you agree that it is the ideology of the Leftist: Socialist/Utopian/Liberal/nazi/Commie/Athiest/Gnostic agenda that is responsible for this digression? Seems to me, when looking at the realities of the world in both the political and social arenas the world is not following the Laws of Moses of a morally based teaching/structure but more so comparable to the "progression" of each pillar Marx labelled in his "Manifesto" no?
Very good post JB... Glad to see you here.. PS: I left a very good post to Gozerim that you will enjoy..
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Wow... I'm sure that was difficult to write and thank you for sharing something so humble, honest, and personal.
I don't even know what to say. That was very deep. You are very intelligent and wise.
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Thank you, jo-bella.
Finally, some logical and first-hand, unbiased account in this thread.
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Hi to all. Yes sadly our mothers and fathers brainwashed us into thinking this was the new and modern era.
and in response to MZ, yes the marxist/commie/leftist/anti religion regime is to blame for sure especially even more so during the mccarthy era when he was trying to expose legit commies like famous artist kent rockwell, he was one of the worst ones and others. This country is /has gone to the dogs.
We need someone like Kahane in office for Israel to have even half a chance. I can see down the pike a nuke war to decrease the surplus population in the middle east but at the cost and expense of losing many jews if we dont have someone really good to intervene and take charge of our homeland soon.
and why is it that russia and china have become so dam quiet with all this going on in the world? makes you wonder doesnt it?
another thought on the reaction to women taking on the role of feminist instead of mother/wife.
it helped men to get lost really. they did not know where the boundaries were anymore and where they fit into the scheme ofthings and upset the status quo. men were being thrown away like garbage. shameful. men i think in response to this began to drink as a means of escaping the unknown game rules now in to play. they went form being breadwinner and father husbands to outcasts in society. it made the mfeel very inscure and disposable.
looking back in my life, i would have like nothing more than to have been a loving spouse/partner to a jewish rightful man and to have a nice large family with core set of traditions in judaism and someone that i could have grown old with early on say aged 20. I did not want to have to look endlessly for men. i think my upbringing corrupted me into thinking that being a feminist was the end all and be all. it is not. itis a lie. it is a hollow victory at best. we women have won nothing but loneliness and put men off.
it made many of us outsiders to ourselves. all this crap about free love and sex and rock and roll/divorce is a load of poop. it is an empty life with very little meaning. at the end of the day, abortion sexual revolution free sex and feminist beliefs sold us down the river as females, estranged men from our lives, and displaced the gender roles into blurry charades.....
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I left a very good post to Gozerim that you will enjoy..
Boy do i dislike that weasel i wish i could meet him face to face
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Very good post JB. Thank you for affirming my origional position. "Ignorance and arrogance are the poisons of the Liberal mind." - MK
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I left a very good post to Gozerim that you will enjoy..
Boy do i dislike that weasel i wish i could meet him face to face
i cant stand to read any more of what ever drivel he espouses.......IMHO i think he must be one very self-loathing jew or not a jew at all but someone posing as a jew to incite the forum. his taste in music that he expressed on my thread i began proves his slant i thought towards arab suffering and maybe i did not interpret it right but i thought it was pro-arabic mostly. he fails to realize the PA bring on all this themselves b/c they choose not to move on and will not agree to peaceful terms.
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What is the PA...lol Of course, they're Arabs/Muslims. The fight and massacre their own. PLO/A is like all others Arab terrorist groups. The sad fact is that their validation came with Jimmy Carter and their affirmation into a "political party" came with the vulgar debauched moral leper of a man: Bill Clinton. May Israel hurry up and truly liberate ALL of Eretz and send those Arabians back to Arabia.....
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right MZ.....they expelled all jews from europe and arabic countries so they in turn should now go back to where they came from logically to their own homeland and leave us and ours alone. they will not though. 23 nations of islam is more than enough for this world to bear. they are filled with such venom that they only way to get rid of them is by nuking them ; you can not teach these people any level of tolerance becasue it is not in their nature to understand it or want to understand it. all they understand is violence so give them what they understand. when you have arabs who are allowed to have 4 wives and make upwards of 50 kids they over breed on purpose so that they know if they lose 25 kids they dont care. iti s all in the numbers.
you can not reason with people like this, ever. dont bother to try it has been tried before. they are emotionally programmed to not understand anything of value. their koran believes in worship to the moon
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I'm in favor of turning Arabia into one slick glass parking lot. There are no "civilians". 98% of Bolistinians and 97% of Lebanese (from their own polls) support Hizbollah/Hamas in destroying Israel and throwing the Jews into the sea. Israel must say enough is enough no matter what the EU, UN, Britian, America, China or Russia...and truly liberate ALL of OUR land.
The Arabs/Muslims are only good for cannon fodder. They've already had much practice blowing themselves up....so we should finnish their job for them no? ;) Bastards!!
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I cannot confirm that Socialism is more feministic than, lets say, Capitalism. Do not forget, there was no Sexual Revolution in Communist countries. Erotica and pornography were simply banned there. In fact, Western-made erotic & porn movies were considered one of the tools of struggle for the destruction of Soviet Union by the West.
Export of the so-called American way of life to third world countries is deemed to be very "effective" in demoralizing masses.
Secular progressive wanted to weaken morality.
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MarZutra, you are saying that Jewishness is determined by mother. I know, this notion prevails in nowadays. I spoke to a couple of Rabbis, and no one could clearly define the source of it. When I mentioned how Abraham converted his family members and slaves/servants by circumsizing men and doing nothing with women, they (the rabbis) were utterly confused. Indeed those women became Jewish automatically.
Using this logic, the father must be Jewish for a kid to be Jewish.
Interesting analysis.
I've concluded that both parents need to be Jewish for a kid to be Jewish. The reform movement, by claiming it's only necessary for one parent to be Jewish, is attempting to give people an excuse to intermarry. This is wrong.
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thank you jeff and lisa
I studied this idea also and wondered why the same thing myself. sadly i was a apart of the female generation that was sold a bill of goods for the trade off of ''achievement'' vs ''family values & religion''. And the left wingers who thought places like Israel and Judiasm were no longer relevant or taboo in this so-called modern era. I remember my own mother telling me no one goes to Israel in their right mind when i was in my teens....she alone turned me off to the idea and the entire notion of judaism and basically would make fun of people who were religious. Later on in life, i think she regreted this way of thinking when she saw how misguided some of her children turned out.....my cousin had it much worse than i did in california.
sadly, we lost much along the way of ''women's lib'' and the burning of the bra era during the 1960's, protests, etc., birth control pill, and abortion rights in 1969. The one person who was responsible for the deciding vote in favor of the 1969 ruling in roe v. wade in ny, was roberta krupsak, who was a deciding vote. her vote alone passed the bill for nys.
in response to women not wanting to be so religious anymore during this era, they actually demanded the men stop being so religious also. this created a vicious cycle. women wanted a more secular lifestyle, abandoned and actually made fun of religious men and we began marrying outside to intergrate. this happened all within less than 70 years if you count from the first wave during the 1880's to the usa/canada.....the second wave of immgration was 1900's.
Also this way of thinking was carried from the old country too though, reform judaism began in germany and many germans came to usa/canada and brought with them this way of thinking. a new country, a new way of thinking to cast off anti-semetism.
all it did was substitute money for religion, and left us even more aling for our Hashem. ??? ??? :'(
american/canadians females jews became spoiled and worshiped money for those who abandoned the religious thinking. now we see the fall out as to what is left for conservative, reform, jews. I became a victim of the same thinking until i wondered what it was that i was missing in my life.....sadly for me it is too late because i am too old now and my child bearing years have long since left me. I can however be a living testament to what happens when you choose a secular lifetstyle. you miss out greatly on a joyus relation with our creator......
Is this liberal group in CA proseltyzing?
http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=17668
You said you have a kid. Are you divorced or did you adopt?
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The Tribe runs through the Father and the Jewishness runs through the Mother. This is Torah and Talmudic teachings which is very clear. When was the Torah given? Who was it given to? Why was it given? Reform is not Judaism at all it was formed by a member of the inner circle of the Jewish Communist: Bund which has the goals of eliminating morality, G-d, nation etc. via "divide and conquer" a Marxian/Sun Tsu (art of war) concept. Thus, Abraham Geiger with the aid of the Oppenhimers, Schiffs, Warbergs and Rothschilds funded this egalitarian Socialist "Reform Judaism". What does Judaism say about Homosexuality? What is Judaism's idea of Nation? What is Judaism's belief in Sinai, Torah, Talmud and G-d? What does Judaism teach about intermarriage? Compare this with all the leftist/socialist/utopian garbage spewed by the "progressive" Reform movement. The intermarriage rate of Reform "Jews" is over 90% while Conservative is about 50%. Orthodox and "Ultra-Orthodox" is under 5%..... just one example...
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MarZutra, you are saying that Jewishness is determined by mother. I know, this notion prevails in nowadays. I spoke to a couple of Rabbis, and no one could clearly define the source of it. When I mentioned how Abraham converted his family members and slaves/servants by circumsizing men and doing nothing with women, they (the rabbis) were utterly confused. Indeed those women became Jewish automatically.
Using this logic, the father must be Jewish for a kid to be Jewish.
Interesting analysis.
I've concluded that both parents need to be Jewish for a kid to be Jewish. The reform movement, by claiming it's only necessary for one parent to be Jewish, is attempting to give people an excuse to intermarry. This is wrong.
I absolutely agree. Both parents need to be Jewsih. But it is also wrong to say that if only the mother is Jewish, that's enough for a kid to be Jewish.
And even providing that both parents are Jewish doesn't guarantee that the kid will be raised as Jewish. And thus a child needs to be raised as Jewish for him/her to be Jewish.
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This is idiotic and only displays a total lack of Torah/Talmudic and/or Jewish knowledge. I doubt that you are a Jew at all but another ignoramus Stormfronter here just trying to get a response.
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MarZutra, my debate with you is long over. And then you say I insult you. Keep your opinion to youself and peace will be.
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Dude there was no debate. Perhaps you might care to scroll back a few pages on this thread to remind yourself of your past statements. It wasn't I who was hiding his "Jewishness".... How "Jewish" of you? How honorable? What a moral thing to do, try to deceive fellow Jews. "Keep your opinion to yourself and peace will be." What's that supposed to mean? Oy veh.... ::)
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Dude, you deceived youself trying to guess my ethnicity.
Why should it matter anyway? There is only one truth, right? No matter who the speaker is.
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Because.
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I did nothing of the sort. I asked you and YOU hid it and now lieing about it. You are a disgusting piece of sub human offal. There is only one truth and sadly you have no idea what it is nor how to speak of it. One need only look back and read your posts. [censored].... You are deceitful and lower than snot.
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I think, you have finally proven what an excrement you are.
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Nice try. You are not fooling anyone around here. Your posts speak for themselves. No Jew would have chosen "Saint" anything if they were A. really Jewish or B. had a modicum of knowledge of Jewish history.
Please go back to StørmFrønt or back under whatever rock you have sprouted from. One need only read your earlier posts to see who and what you....really are.
Again, nice try though. ;)
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Of course, they will. They will go back and see what I wrote and what you wrote. Even if they have problems with smelling, they will understand what a stinking pig you are.
I'm indeed leaving this forum. It's all stinking because of you.
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Thank you very much. It smells much better already. I hoped you did learn something from your short infiltration and benighted attempt at debate and reasoning. I like the smell much better. That [censored] smell is in deed clearing up. All because of you. Thank you so very much..... :)