JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => Introduce Yourself => Topic started by: Americanhero1 on March 14, 2008, 04:16:07 PM
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I am Croatian and i know what you are going to say they are all Nazis well you are wrong well i am the only Croatian out of all of my friends that has said Kosovo belongs to Serbia when i say this they all look at me like i am a traitor but i am not i have Serbian friends and they are surprised at this as well i don't think that any Muslim belongs in the Balkans or anywhere in Europe for that matter i will be the first to admit that there are Croatian Nazis but i am not one of them my family fought during World War two along side the Serbs to help the Jews escape to freedom many of my family members died in doing so. So next time please think before you call all Croatians Nazis and this is directed to the Jewish people because a Croatian might have saved a member of your family's life O0
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Welcome
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Welcome.
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Americanhero are you the same Americanhero from PW?
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Welcome.
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Welcome to the board.
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I don't know why the Croats and the Serbs fight each other... basically the same people with slightly different sects of Christianity based within there respective nations...
there is a storm traveling west which is going to ingulf both countries if nothing is done about it so we must all pull together and do the right thing by ourselves and countries which face turbulent times in the east of Europe...
TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE
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I am Croatian and i know what you are going to say they are all Nazis well you are wrong well i am the only Croatian out of all of my friends that has said Kosovo belongs to Serbia
Kosovo is and was always Serbian lands.
It is good to acknowlegde the truth.
So next time please think before you call all Croatians Nazis and this is directed to the Jewish people because a Croatian might have saved a member of your family's life O0
Which Croatian fought against Nazis during WW2?
Who were day? How did they fought the Nazis? What was the name of their organization?
Tell us somethign about that. Do yoy have any facts which testifie that?
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my family fought the Nazis they were apart of the partisan
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they fought them with what ever they could find my grand father used farm equipment to kill them because during WW2 not all Croatians supported the Nazis
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I don't know why the Croats and the Serbs fight each other...
Let me turn this question:
WHY WERE THE GERMANS FIGHTING THE JEWS
My friend. Learn something about the history of the Croatians.
Shall I tell you why they fought each others?
The Croatians have always tried to eliminate the Serbian presence on the territories of today's Croatia. According to the politic of Ante Starcevic (the father of all Croats) the Croatian state must only be populated with Croats. Based on the instructions of Ante Starcevic the Croatians started to conduct genocide against the Serbs.
- During WW2 the Croats managed to exterminate 800.000 Serbs in concentrationcamps.
- In the periode of 1990 till 1995 the Croats exiled the whole Serbian population (800.000 Serbian people) from Krajina and Croatia.
I hope you understand now why these two nations were and still are figting each others!
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they fought them with what ever they could find my grand father used farm equipment to kill them because during WW2 not all Croatians supported the Nazis
Respect to the brave Croatians who honestly fougth the Nazi sand Ustashi during WW2. But it was just a small minority.
But the facts are stil facts!
90% of the Croatians supported fanatically the Nazi government of Croatia during WW2.
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The Serbs did the same are you telling me that Serbs should be allowed to live in Croatia but not the other way around i admit the Croatians and the Serbians hate each other and allways will but look when Yugoslavia was created the two country's that were supposed to be in charge were the the Serbs and the Croats not just one but when Milosevic came he wanted it all to be controlled by Serbia tell me why do you think the Croats should have done? They did what they had to survive they fought back let me tell you something if you go to Croatia now they would rather live with Serbs then Muslims
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That might be true but back then the germans were the only country that helped Croatia so that is why most supported plus since the Serbs hated the germans they liked the germans then
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The Serbs did the same
You do not know what you are saying.
The Croatians committed the worst atrocities and genocide which was ever committed in the history of man kind. The savage slauthering of + 800.000 Serbian civilians in the camp of Jasenovac was the most brutal committed atrocity against the Serbs!
Serbs did not committ anything like that!
Neigther did a Serbian government organized something like that.
In the same time 90% of the Croatian citizens supported the Croatian government of Ante Pavelic.
My intentions are to convince you with the truth. You can accept it or deny it like your government's institutions are doing it. Now.
but when Milosevic came he wanted it all to be controlled by Serbia tell me why do you think the Croats should have done? They did what they had to survive they fought back let me tell you something if you go to Croatia now they would rather live with Serbs then Muslims
Milosevic did not start the war. He did NOT want to control Croatia.
Tell me do you really thing that Milosevic wanted to become some kind of president of Croatia?
No Milosevic wanted to save Yugoslavia from collapsing.
In 1990, It was Croatia which wanted to iligaly leave the Yugoslavian federation.
Croatia was a separatist force which started to violate the principles of the Yugoslavian constituions.
Tell, what are the consequences if you vilolate the constituions of a world's recognized country?
Please anwser my question!
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That might be true but back then the germans were the only country that helped Croatia so that is why most supported plus since the Serbs hated the germans they liked the germans then
DO YOU SEE WHAT YOU ARE WRITTING?
YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NAZI GERMNAY WHICH HELPED THE ESTABLISHMENT OF NAZI CROATIA. ?? WHICH ALSO GAVE THE AUTHORIZATION TO CROATIA TO COMMITT GENOCIDE AGAINST THE SERBS AND THE JEWS.
WHAT KIND OF HELP IS THAT?
Friend tell me do you thinK that the Croatian state of Pavelic which was a genocidal state deserved to be helped? I can understand why a country like GERMANY supported Croatia.
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like i said i am not agreeing with what they did but milosevic had Croatians killed once communism fell then there should be no Yugoslavia another thing at this point Croatia does not support kosovo they don't want to recognize it as a country Croatia waited a long time to be an independent country from Yugoslavia what about Montenegro Serbs has no problem they left Serbia
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again my family fought them and if you were a country that was offered help from the Nazis during WW2 and you did not know a lot about them would you accept the help
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like i said i am not agreeing with what they did but milosevic had Croatians killed once
You can not compare Milosevic with Ante Pavelic and with Franjo Tudjman.
Croatia does not support kosovo they don't want to recognize it as a country Croatia
CROTIA does support the Albanians, who are a national minority in Serbia, with their intentions and whishes to establish some kind of state on the territory of the Republic of Serbia.
The Croatian president Mesic declared today that they will soon recognize Kosovo!
Please inform your self better.
like i said i am not agreeing with what they did but milosevic had Croatians killed once communism fell then there should be no Yugoslavia
Milosevic had all rights to stop the Yugoslavia's collapsing.
Tell me what are the consequences if you violate the constitutions of a world's recognized state?
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again my family fought them and if you were a country that was offered help from the Nazis during WW2 and you did not know a lot about them would you accept the help
Do you recognize that the today's Croatia is an Ustashi/ Nazi state?
Please anwser also my questions.
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answer my question first if you were a country that was offered help from the Nazis during WW2 and you did not know a lot about them would you accept the help
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No i do not because the croatia that i know hates the muslims and they dont want any muslim in croatia
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Hey!
Let's not start bashing this guy coz he's a croat.
He seems pro-Jewish and hates muSSlims. Until he starts claiming Serb land as his we should give him a break.
Welcome, Americanhero.
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answer my question first if you were a country that was offered help from the Nazis during WW2 and you did not know a lot about them would you accept the help
First of all I asked you first! ! !!
It is very rude of you to not answer my questions.
Why are you avioding them?
I will be kind again to answer your question.
But i expect to receip also your answers of my questions!
My anwser:
Serbia is a good example.
Germany offered Serbia to become it's ally.
The Serbs rejected the alliance of Germany and started to fight the evil.
You Croats welcomed the Germans with flouwers and participated with lust in the genocide against the Serbs and the Jews.
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Hey!
He seems pro-Jewish and hates muSSlims.
Ante Pavelic:
"The Muslims are the flowers of Croatia"
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well the consequences i think are that the country it seceded from has the right tho invade it and take it back but hear this i will never turn my back on Croatia just because most of the people during WW2 killed the Serbs and the Jews does not mean that i will hate my country but look if the Muslims start another war there the Serbs will need the Croats help because they don't want Muslims there because how they destroyed homes they stayed at i mean the refugees
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when was i bashing Serbs and Jews i said that kosovo belongs to Serbia and i said i don't want Muslims anywhere in the balkans period
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well the consequences i think are that the country it seceded from has the right tho invade it and take it back but hear this i will never turn my back on Croatia just because most of the people during WW2 killed the Serbs and the Jews does not mean that i will hate my country but look if the Muslims start another war there the Serbs will need the Croats help because they don't want Muslims there because how they destroyed homes they stayed at i mean the refugees
Just this:
Do you recognize that the Serbs from Krajina had the rights for self governnace on the territories on which they were the majority?
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when was i bashing Serbs and Jews i said that kosovo belongs to Serbia and i said i don't want Muslims anywhere in the balkans period
Read this:
That might be true but back then the germans were the only country that helped Croatia so that is why most supported plus since the Serbs hated the germans they liked the germans then
You can not justife that Nazi Germnay's help was a right thing.
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no because croatia is for croatians serbia is for serbians
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i am not justifiying it but when another country offers you help during war you take it if you need it
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Another thing i dont support the germans
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i am not justifiying it but when another country offers you help during war you take it if you need it
You needed help to organize, prepare and conduct genocide against Serbs and Jews.
Yes I understand you needed helpp from a stronger force like Germnay. Because you are no match for the Serbs with out foreign factors..
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so the serbs had help from the russians
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no because croatia is for croatians serbia is for serbians
According to the Ustashi principles Croatia is only for the Croatians.
Serbs have stil no chance to return to Croatia.
The Serbian presence in Croatia and Krajina which has it's roots comming from the 9th century is not resptected by any Croats. Also not by this so called non Nazi Croat which shares the idea of the Ante Starcevic's recept that Croatis should only be populated with the Croats.
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i hate Ustashi people because they killed people in my family during the war because they did not support them so don't call me a Nazi like i said before kosovo belongs to Serbia so don't twist my words around and say i support Nazis
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i hate Ustashi
realy?
no because croatia is for croatians serbia is for serbians
Everything is clear! :)
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the only reason i said that is because like Chaim likes to say Jews belong in Israel. i said that because each country is for people from that country like Russia belongs to Russians and Muslims don't belong there
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i support the Serbs i think they need to take back kosovo because Muslims through out the former Yugoslavia see this and then they will declare independence in a lot of country's there like Croatia and Serbia
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the only reason i said that is because like Chaim likes to say Jews belong in Israel. i said that because each country is for people from that country like Russia belongs to Russians and Muslims don't belong there
Serbs were the constitutional nation of Croatia.
Croatia was before 1990 a state of two nations of the croatians and of the Serbians who lived on the administrative territories of socialst Republic of Croatia.
Is it to strange that your statement" croatia for croats" reminds me about the Ustashi principle the croatia must only be populated with the Croats?
You can only establish that with genocide and ethnic cleansing.
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did you read my post before i said i hate Ustashi people because they killed people in my family and yet you keep insinuating that i am a Nazi
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i support the Serbs
Yess but you also support the recpet (ideology) of Ante Starcevic and Ante Pavelic which had the following head purposes:
The establisment of a Croatian state only for the Croats.
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i did not know that was there ideology i just think each country is made for That group
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I'm surprised the response hasn't been more intense.
Anyways the Croatians during WWII were clerical fascists not national socialists but they were a brutal regime. Of course this is 2008, not 1940, and surely Croatians had variant degree of support of their leaders. Some enthusiastically supported them, others silently disagreed.
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wow you are an Americanhero
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yes i am i am a Marine
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I don't know why the Croats and the Serbs fight each other...
Let me turn this question:
WHY WERE THE GERMANS FIGHTING THE JEWS
My friend. Learn something about the history of the Croatians.
Shall I tell you why they fought each others?
The Croatians have always tried to eliminate the Serbian presence on the territories of today's Croatia. According to the politic of Ante Starcevic (the father of all Croats) the Croatian state must only be populated with Croats. Based on the instructions of Ante Starcevic the Croatians started to conduct genocide against the Serbs.
- During WW2 the Croats managed to exterminate 800.000 Serbs in concentrationcamps.
- In the periode of 1990 till 1995 the Croats exiled the whole Serbian population (800.000 Serbian people) from Krajina and Croatia.
I hope you understand now why these two nations were and still are figting each others!
you havn't explained why the two nations hate each other you have just regurgitated history to fit the profile of "Serbia vs Croatia" there wasn't all this bloodshed because of some dictators with expansionist ideas i know it and you know it... there was something bigger lying underneath the surface which i can't figure out...
i asked why and you went off on a tangent about what took place way back when which i am already readily aware of.
its ok not to know the answer but don't tell me that it started through dictatorial powers because that is an unfounded lie....
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That was your quote i never stated that I don't know why the Croats and the Serbs fight each other... you posted that Sergio not me
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Another thing i never said i hate serbs
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wow you are an Americanhero
Other American "heroes" supported also this kind of people back in 1995...
According to him Croatia is only for the Croats.
That is a heroic speech?
It explains everything....
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its ok not to know the answer but don't tell me that it started through dictatorial powers because that is an unfounded lie....
I will go deeper into the subject.
Serbs do not hate Croats. The Croats hate the Serbs because the Croats are the descants of the Serbs who accepted Roman catholism. That's why the Croats of today speak Serbian.
With other words the Croats are the fallen Serbs and they are ashamed because of it.
That's why they can not stand anything what represents the Serbs.
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Of course this is 2008, not 1940,
The ustashi ideology in Croatia is today of course more camouflaged that during WW2 and during the collapse of Yugoslavia.
But the ustashi ideology is still alive in today's Croatia.
This Croat won't recognize that. Maybe he is not informed enough or he has no problems with it.
Today - 2008 -
- 80% of the exiled Serbs from Krajina and Croatia did not return back to their homelands.
- The Serbian private property is not returned back to the Serbs and it is still stolen by Croatia.
- Violence and hatred against the Serbs is something that the Serbs are still facing today in Croatia.
- Ustashi and other Nazis from WW2 are accepted as national heroes in Croatia.
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Welcome American Hero, I don't undurstand why Croats who I met on net think of themself as Goths or Iranians not Slavs. And why Balkan Slavic nations fight each other instead of fighting the Turks (bosniaks, albanians, etc...) We shud all be brothers in Christ. :-\
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i did not know that was there ideology i just think each country is made for That group
According to the constitutions of Yugoslavia Croatia was a bi-national state, a state of the Serbian and Croatian nations which lived on it's territory.
Croatia did not had the right to remove the state federal status of the Serbs from Croatia.
Tell me friend, was Croatia only made for the Croats?
You are a supported of the anti facsist movement of Yugoslavia?
What was the main principle of the anti facsist movement of Yugoslavia regarding the creation of a new Croatia state?
The following:
"There is no, there cannot be and there will not be a Croatia in which the Serbs could not be guaranteed full equality and full rights";
You claim to be a descant of anti fascists?
Do you respect the above mentioned principle of the anti-fascist movement which is the movement of your fammily according to you?
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Welcome American Hero, I don't undurstand why Croats who I met on net think of themself as Goths or Iranians not Slavs. And why Balkan Slavic nations fight each other instead of fighting the Turks (bosniaks, albanians, etc...) We shud all be brothers in Christ. :-\
Remember the Croats committed genocide against the Serbs!
They also bannished the Serbian minority from Krajina and Croatia.
Do you really think that the Croats and the Serbs should form some kind of alliance.
You do not thing like that?
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Not likely, Polish and German skinheads are beating eachover to this day in Oder border towns. And we were in war last time sixty years ago not ten. Still we must all be united against muslims or they will pick us up one by one. The muslims make old rivals Jews and Christians alies and maybe future friends I don't see why Croats and Serbs cannot work together in the (far) future as they in past fought together Turks under Autrian leadership in XVII and XVIII century.
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I don't see why Croats and Serbs cannot work together in the (far) future as they in past fought together Turks under Autrian leadership in XVII and XVIII century.
This is so disrespectfull from your side!!
You do not know what they have done to us.
I told you they committd genocide against us and have stolen our land.
How can you even say something like that.
I thought you people fully supported the Serbs in our battle against our enemies.
But no, you only think about the Muslims. And Croations are good catholics? ? ? ?
Wel you support us in our battle against Islamic fundamentalists.
But when we have problems with for example Croats (catholics) then you suddenly have other ideas.
You only support the Serbs when you have your own benefits of it!!
When the Serbs from Krajina (today Croatia) and Serbia of course were good for Europe and died protecting Christianity and Europe against the Turks, they were supported and beloved by Europe.
As soon as the Turks left the Balkans (due Serbian struggle)
and when the Serbs started to be attacked by the Vatican they suddenly did not were respected and beloved any more.
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Again when did i say i hate Serbia never i said i support them 100% when it comes to kosovo but i will not say that i hate Croatia i never had any problem with Serbia and when i said that Croatia is for Croatian i miss spoke but stop calling me a Nazi
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when i said that Croatia is for Croatian i miss spoke but stop calling me a Nazi
hehe :)
Ti mislis da sam se ja juce rodio (you think that I was born yesterday)
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i miss spoke because i don't know the whole history of that area i am still finding out new thing about it everyday
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i miss spoke because i don't know the whole history of that area i am still finding out new thing about it everyday
Let me tell you something honesly:
Croatia had two sovereignties, a Serbian and a Croatian!
The constitution of the ex Yugoslav federation can confirm this to you if you do not believe me. Read the constitution of SFRJ from 1971!
We the Serbs and the Croats lived together with each other in Yugoslavia.
Our common Republic was called the socialist Republic of Croatia which was part of the Yugoslav federation.
This common life between the Croats and the Serbs was ruined after the arrival of the separatist in Croatia. These separatists under the authority of Franjo Tudjman started to eliminate the founding principles of Croatia. They eliminated the Serbian constitutional rights which were established by the Yugoslav ant-fascist forces after 1945 and which had the intend to guarantee the security of the Serbian minority of the socialist Republic of Croatia.
The Croatian state as a state of two nations.
This was established by the anti fascist movement of Yugoslavia with purpose to guarantee the rights of the Serbs who had faced genocide.
What would the Serbs from Krajina and Croatia expect after the elimination of their rights?
They will be remembered about the genocide form WW2 which ended the lives of + 800.000 Serbs.
Further I can tell you many stories about the experiences of the Serbs in Croatia during their independence back in the beginning of the nineties.
Trust me I know what I am saying I am from those areas.
The Croats are dangerous!
There is no life possible with them anymore.
After they stabbed us the Serbs in our back for the 3rd time!
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What do you mean stabbed Serbs in our back for the 3rd time
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What do you mean stabbed Serbs in our back for the 3rd time
1.
During WW1, the Croats fought with passions against the Serbs alongside army of the Austrian-Hungarian empire. After WW1 in 1918, the Serbs became victorious. The Serbs welcomed the Croats to live together with each other in Royal Yugoslavia. In 1918 Royal Yugoslavia was established as a kingdom for 3 nations: Croats, Serbs and Slovenians.
2.
During WW2 in 1941, the Croats turned their back against the Serbs and betrayed Royal Yuoglslavia (which was also their homeland) when they decided to join Nazi Germarny. The Serbs organized anti facists actions in Croatia and invited the Croats to join them in their struggle againsth the Ustashi regime and the Nazis.
After WW2, the Yugoslav communist Serbs established the Socialist Republic of Croatia. Which's creation was based on the following principle:
"There is no, there cannot be and there will not be a Croatia in which the Serbs could not be guaranteed full equality and full rights";
3.
In 1990 the Croats started to eliminate the Serbian constitutional rights and that was the final occasion for the civil war between the Croats and the Serbs in Croatia. In 1995 the Croats with the help of the US and the EU started to attack Krajina which was an UNPA (UN's protected area) and exiled 500.000 Serbs from Krajina in 1995-08.
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Your question:
What is Krajina ? ?
My anwser:
Krajina occupied the next areas:
Norther Dalmatia (my place ), Kordun, Banija, Lika and parts of Eastern and Western Slavonia.
The Serbian presence in Krajina has its roots comming from the 9th century.
The Serbian population in Krajina started to enlargde in the 16-17 century.
The word "Krajina" means military frontier. It was the frontier (border) between the Turkish empire and the European western civilization. They Serbs from Krajina defendent whole Europe because they were launched on the front line which was constanty in battle with the Turks the inavder form the east.
The Krajina Serbs were recognized for their contribute to the battle against the Turkish invaders. Their actions were recognized by 2 kings of the Austrian Hungarian empire and Krajina gained self governance (autonomy under the AustrianHungairan empire) in the 16 century.
Krajina in the 16 - 18 century
(http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/krajina-map.jpg)
Krajina duirng the war in Yugoslavia - 1990 - 1995
(http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~ulf/Serben/Krajina.png)