JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: AsheDina on November 19, 2009, 04:46:29 PM
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I have been on this forum for over 2 years. It is the right thing to do to rebuke left wing Erav-Rav traitors to the Jewish people--these TRAITORS are George Soros, Turi Karta, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, ETC. IT IS RIGHT that Christian people stand against this, else they COULD become total Jew-haters, NOT being able to make a differentiation, thinking that "ALL JEWS ARE THE SAME.
This other Jewish man, says that Gentiles and Christians have 'no right' to criticize these people that are DESTROYING their CHRISTIAN nation. SHAME ON YOU.
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY HAD IT--UP TO HERE ^^^^, with the bashing of Gentiles and Christians on this forum, they are dedicated, they are FULL of love, and have shown MORE decency than some SNOTTY, KNOW IT ALL Jewish brethren.
They GIVE HOURS to building us, they are NOT 'nazis' they are RIGHTEOUS. In my book, that is the SAME as being a Jew themselves.
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH NOW.
I WILL NOT STOP---EVER from calling out the EVIL ERAV RAV- in the end, I will have SAVED LIVES.
ENOUGH CHRISTIAN BASHING. Left wing Jews, left wing FRAUD Christians DESERVE ALL that they have coming, END OF STORY.
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Paulette, one member is doing it. I don't know why he's having a meltdown, but we will all do well to just ignore it and his thread.
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Bones, this is ongoing. Christians and gentiles are losing their nation. I have had enough. I kept this in the honored wing section, but I really have had it.
IF people dont like the Christians here, LEAVE.
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Bones, this is ongoing. Christians and gentiles are losing their nation. I have had enough. I kept this in the honored wing section, but I really have had it.
IF people dont like the Christians here, LEAVE.
I don't think you should let this get to you. This is like 1% of our forum and most of the people who act like this have been banned (i.e. Tzvi) or have left on their own (i.e. kahaneloyalist). Don't let this one nut spoil your day.
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Bones, this is ongoing. Christians and gentiles are losing their nation. I have had enough. I kept this in the honored wing section, but I really have had it.
IF people dont like the Christians here, LEAVE.
I don't think you should let this get to you. This is like 1% of our forum and most of the people who act like this have been banned (i.e. Tzvi) or have left on their own (i.e. kahaneloyalist). Don't let this one nut spoil your day.
Guys, there is a little more to it, he just didn't present it properly. To sum it up, there is quote from the mishna that all Jews have a portion in the World to Come. Therefore we learn, that ALL JEWS have it, even sinners. We also have the idea of teshuva which is huge, and a Jew should always be expected to do teshuvah. So I guesswhat Ron means is that since they could do teshuva, have a place in the world to come, AND were at Har Sinai, they deserve respect. Personally, I agree with the theory, but I have to admit that I have a very STRONG yestzer hara to go against BAD Jews.
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Well, understand that MANY Christians and gentiles have entered into our sufferings, and deserve our love:
(http://www.erichufschmid.net/HoloHoax/Holocaust-Denial-Holocaust-survivors.JPG)
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Ron, I respect you but you need to know limitations. JTF is not exclusively Jewish and we thrive on the support of the nations. I agree that we cannot rely on the nations, as history has shown, but it seems that there are some non-Jews who are supportive of the goals of the Jewish nation. There is no reason that I see that they cannot assist, as long as their motivation is purely for assisting the Jews in establishing the Messianic kingdom in this world. I am against those non-jews who are using the Jews to acheive their own vision of prophecy {like some xtian denominations}.
I dont think we should argue like this. These kinds of arguments end in hurt feelings, chillul Hashem, and anger.
I love all honest and good willed JTF members, regardless of whether they are Jewish, fully Jewish, or non-Jewish..
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I have been on this forum for over 2 years. It is the right thing to do to rebuke left wing Erav-Rav traitors to the Jewish people--these TRAITORS are George Soros, Turi Karta, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, ETC. IT IS RIGHT that Christian people stand against this, else they COULD become total Jew-haters, NOT being able to make a differentiation, thinking that "ALL JEWS ARE THE SAME.
This other Jewish man, says that Gentiles and Christians have 'no right' to criticize these people that are DESTROYING their CHRISTIAN nation. SHAME ON YOU.
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY HAD IT--UP TO HERE ^^^^, with the bashing of Gentiles and Christians on this forum, they are dedicated, they are FULL of love, and have shown MORE decency than some SNOTTY, KNOW IT ALL Jewish brethren.
They GIVE HOURS to building us, they are NOT 'nazis' they are RIGHTEOUS. In my book, that is the SAME as being a Jew themselves.
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH NOW.
I WILL NOT STOP---EVER from calling out the EVIL ERAV RAV- in the end, I will have SAVED LIVES.
ENOUGH CHRISTIAN BASHING. Left wing Jews, left wing FRAUD Christians DESERVE ALL that they have coming, END OF STORY.
Spot on!
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I have been on this forum for over 2 years. It is the right thing to do to rebuke left wing Erav-Rav traitors to the Jewish people--these TRAITORS are George Soros, Turi Karta, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, ETC. IT IS RIGHT that Christian people stand against this, else they COULD become total Jew-haters, NOT being able to make a differentiation, thinking that "ALL JEWS ARE THE SAME.
This other Jewish man, says that Gentiles and Christians have 'no right' to criticize these people that are DESTROYING their CHRISTIAN nation. SHAME ON YOU.
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY HAD IT--UP TO HERE ^^^^, with the bashing of Gentiles and Christians on this forum, they are dedicated, they are FULL of love, and have shown MORE decency than some SNOTTY, KNOW IT ALL Jewish brethren.
They GIVE HOURS to building us, they are NOT 'nazis' they are RIGHTEOUS. In my book, that is the SAME as being a Jew themselves.
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH NOW.
I WILL NOT STOP---EVER from calling out the EVIL ERAV RAV- in the end, I will have SAVED LIVES.
ENOUGH CHRISTIAN BASHING. Left wing Jews, left wing FRAUD Christians DESERVE ALL that they have coming, END OF STORY.
Spot on!
Everyone, righteous or wicked deserve all they have coming... But who are you to decide who deserves what punishment? The Torah doesn't command you to insult and name call anyone...
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I have been on this forum for over 2 years. It is the right thing to do to rebuke left wing Erav-Rav traitors to the Jewish people--these TRAITORS are George Soros, Turi Karta, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, ETC. IT IS RIGHT that Christian people stand against this, else they COULD become total Jew-haters, NOT being able to make a differentiation, thinking that "ALL JEWS ARE THE SAME.
This other Jewish man, says that Gentiles and Christians have 'no right' to criticize these people that are DESTROYING their CHRISTIAN nation. SHAME ON YOU.
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY HAD IT--UP TO HERE ^^^^, with the bashing of Gentiles and Christians on this forum, they are dedicated, they are FULL of love, and have shown MORE decency than some SNOTTY, KNOW IT ALL Jewish brethren.
They GIVE HOURS to building us, they are NOT 'nazis' they are RIGHTEOUS. In my book, that is the SAME as being a Jew themselves.
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH NOW.
I WILL NOT STOP---EVER from calling out the EVIL ERAV RAV- in the end, I will have SAVED LIVES.
ENOUGH CHRISTIAN BASHING. Left wing Jews, left wing FRAUD Christians DESERVE ALL that they have coming, END OF STORY.
Spot on!
Everyone, righteous or wicked deserve all they have coming... But who are you to decide who deserves what punishment? The Torah doesn't command you to insult and name call anyone...
There are some instances where it's a mitzvah to speak ill of someone.
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I have been on this forum for over 2 years. It is the right thing to do to rebuke left wing Erav-Rav traitors to the Jewish people--these TRAITORS are George Soros, Turi Karta, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, ETC. IT IS RIGHT that Christian people stand against this, else they COULD become total Jew-haters, NOT being able to make a differentiation, thinking that "ALL JEWS ARE THE SAME.
This other Jewish man, says that Gentiles and Christians have 'no right' to criticize these people that are DESTROYING their CHRISTIAN nation. SHAME ON YOU.
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY HAD IT--UP TO HERE ^^^^, with the bashing of Gentiles and Christians on this forum, they are dedicated, they are FULL of love, and have shown MORE decency than some SNOTTY, KNOW IT ALL Jewish brethren.
They GIVE HOURS to building us, they are NOT 'nazis' they are RIGHTEOUS. In my book, that is the SAME as being a Jew themselves.
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH NOW.
I WILL NOT STOP---EVER from calling out the EVIL ERAV RAV- in the end, I will have SAVED LIVES.
ENOUGH CHRISTIAN BASHING. Left wing Jews, left wing FRAUD Christians DESERVE ALL that they have coming, END OF STORY.
Spot on!
Everyone, righteous or wicked deserve all they have coming... But who are you to decide who deserves what punishment? The Torah doesn't command you to insult and name call anyone...
There are some instances where it's a mitzvah to speak ill of someone.
Yes, I have studied the laws of Lashon Hara... There are some exceptions to the prohibition of speaking it when:
http://www.torah.org/learning/halashon/chapter8.html
5. Speaking Lashon Hara About a Heretic
The prohibition against speaking Lashon Hara applies when spoken about someone who is considered "amitecha" (of your people), namely in observance of Torah and mitzvot. However, regarding those who are recognizably "apikorsim" (heretics), it is a mitzvah (fulfillment of a positive commandment) to disparage and shame them, to their face and behind their back, for everything that one witnesses or hears about them.
The Torah states (Lev. 25:17 & Lev. 19:16) "One should not wrong his fellow" and "Do not act as a talebearer among your people," but heretics do not fit under this category for they do not act as "your people." Therefore, we follow the practice (as taught in Avot D'Rabbi Natan, a work from the Talmudic era), "those who hate you, L-rd, I will hate, and your rebellious ones I will dispute."
An "apikorus" (heretic) is one who denies the laws and prophecies of Israel, whether the Written Law or Oral Law. Even if he says, "All the Torah is true with the exception of one Scriptural verse, kal v'chomer, g'zeira shava, or one grammatical detail," he is included in this category. ["Kal v'chomer" and "g'zeira shava" are Talmudic terms for two of the logical principles from which we understand many laws.]
*Important note: there is a large in-between category not mentioned in this paragraph, namely those who do not observe - or even commit some sins - but without the malicious intent of heresy. Lashon Hara against someone in this middle category is forbidden. The purpose of these laws permitting speech against an actual heretic is not for a community to degenerate into nasty name-calling, but rather to protect itself against the influence of those who flagrantly do not care about the image they set for the community and even intentionally wish to destroy it.
6. Determining Whether Someone is Considered an Apikorus
[The permissibility to speak against an apikorus (heretic)] applies if one heard words of heresy directly from an individual. However, if he heard the heresy second hand, he is forbidden to speak against the person, whether in his presence or behind his back. Rather, he should suspect the person as an apikorus, and also warn others to stay away from him until the matter is clarified. Further, he should not believe in his heart that the information is true, according to the laws against accepting Lashon Hara discussed in chapter 6.
Verification is required when one hears that an ordinary person has spoken heresy, but if the person is a publicly confirmed heretic one may speak Lashon Hara about him as if he heard the heresy himself.
7. Speaking Lashon Hara about an Established Sinner
If a resident of a city is an established sinner, violating well-known laws, it is permissible to speak Lashon Hara about him.
(Here the Chafetz Chaim refers to his footnote enumerating the conditions that must be fulfilled to speak Lashon Hara in this case:
1. The speaker must have constructive intentions to encourage others to avoid the ways of evil, once they realize that such behavior is disparaged, and perhaps even to inspire the sinner himself to repent. He should not intend to benefit from exposing the other's faults, nor should he speak out of hatred.
2. The speaker may not exaggerate about the subject's behavior.
3. The speaker also should not act deceitfully, disparaging the person privately behind his back, yet flattering him in his presence; he should be comfortable speaking about him publicly. If, however he has a specific fear of retribution or swishes to avoid a public controversy, he may tell individuals privately. The speaker must be certain that his intentions are to prevent others from learning from the sinner's evil ways.)
Who is classified as an established sinner? One who is designated as such by the town elders, based on which there can be no doubt, due to constant, numerous reports regarding his adulterous acts or other transgressions that are of the type that everyone knows they are forbidden.
If, however, there were only a rumor about him, it would be forbidden on that basis to speak against him, Heaven forbid. Even to decide in one's heart is forbidden, as we discussed previously in chapter 7.
8. Speaking Lashon Hara about Ba'alei Machloket
Regarding the permissibility to speak Lashon Hara about those who are "ba'alei machloket" (people who are either polemic by nature or regularly engage in prolonged public disputes), it applies in certain circumstances. If a dispute is rooted in a deception [which violates Torah law] on the part of one side [thereby called a "ba'al machloket"], and if exposure of the deception will reveal that his position violates the halacha and will, therefore, more quickly resolve the dispute, then Lashon Hara is permitted. If the dispute will not be resolved as a result of the Lashon Hara, it is forbidden.
In addition, the following conditions are required:
1. The individual or group on the deceiving side are established "ba'alei machloket," not merely rumored to be such, but rather verified by the speaker himself.
2. The speaker must have pure intentions, as discussed above. He must speak out of desire to resolve the quarrel, not out of hatred.
3. If silencing the dispute can be done by means other than speaking about the dishonest individual or group, such as direct rebuke or the like, it is forbidden to resort to Lashon Hara. (Unless he is afraid to rebuke them, for when they learn that he does not agree with them, they will negate what he tells others, and he will have no way to further address the situation.)
Speaking against ba'alei machloket requires careful consideration, and one should not rush to decide that one side is wrong and conclude that they are the ba'alei machloket. Rather, he must deliberate tHaraughly according to the guidelines of Torah law. And if one cannot clarify which of the parties is correct, it is better not to get involved.
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I look at it this way, IT WILL SAVE LIVES. I REFUSE to be ranked in with these Erav-rav TRAITORS to G-d and everything holy and good. It IS an absolute mitzvah to rebuke this evil behavior!
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12. Speaking Lashon Hara to Gentiles
Furthermore, the prohibition of Lashon Hara applies when the speaker disparages the subject before a Jew; all the more severe is his transgression if he disparages the speaker before gentiles.
By speaking to gentiles he disgraces the honor of Israel and defames the honor of Heaven. Further, he causes his fellow great harm, for if the speaker were to tell another Jew, at least the Jew would not conclude immediately that the information was true. However, if he speaks to a gentile, and tells him that the subject is a cheat, a swindler, or something similarly negative, the gentile will believe it immediately and publicize it, and the subject will be harmed and aggrieved.
So certainly if one speaks Lashon Hara about a fellow Jew to an audience of non-Jews, his sin is too great to bear (cf. Gen. 4:13), for he enters into the class of "malshinim" (those who slander their fellow Jews to the anti-Semitic government). His judgement is therefore akin to an apikores (heretic) and the disbelievers in Torah [because a "malshin" informs the government of hateful qualities of the Jews in order to prevent them from observing the Torah], when the dead are reawakened, he will be given permanent dwelling in Gehinom, as discussed in Tractate Rosh HaShanah. Therefore every Jew must take great care to guard himself from this.
One who violates this and slanders a Jew before gentiles flagrantly rebels against Torat Moshe Rabbeinu (the Torah which Moses taught us), as is discussed in the Shulchan Aruch, Choshen Mishpat 26.
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I look at it this way, IT WILL SAVE LIVES. I REFUSE to be ranked in with these Erav-rav TRAITORS to G-d and everything holy and good. It IS an absolute mitzvah to rebuke this evil behavior!
And what do you accept as 'evidence' that these Jews are apikorisis? Just because they are liberal? Not all liberals are apikorisis...
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I look at it this way, IT WILL SAVE LIVES. I REFUSE to be ranked in with these Erav-rav TRAITORS to G-d and everything holy and good. It IS an absolute mitzvah to rebuke this evil behavior!
And what do you accept as 'evidence' that these Jews are apikorisis? Just because they are liberal? Not all liberals are apikorisis...
Muman, as you well know, the Christians and gentile members here, criticize the political Bolsheviks, they have EVERY right, this is THEIR country.
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I look at it this way, IT WILL SAVE LIVES. I REFUSE to be ranked in with these Erav-rav TRAITORS to G-d and everything holy and good. It IS an absolute mitzvah to rebuke this evil behavior!
And what do you accept as 'evidence' that these Jews are apikorisis? Just because they are liberal? Not all liberals are apikorisis...
Muman, as you well know, the Christians and gentile members here, criticize the political Bolsheviks, they have EVERY right, this is THEIR country.
Yes, I understand this, and I even contribute my rebuke against those Jews who are against the Torah, as I am commanded to do... But I do the rebuke with the intention of Love, and not in order to glorify myself, or to feel superior to those not on my level... We need to consider how we will accomplish the goal to turn the whole world toward Hashem, so that he can bring his peace to the world.
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Dearest Paulette, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for standing up for ALL that deserve it. You are truly a gift from God.
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People like Bobby Fischer, Noam Chomsky, NK members, Tzipi Hitler, and Arik Sharon are enemies of the Jewish people and have turned into rodefs. They are karet, considered as bad as the worst Gentiles.
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Bones, this is ongoing. Christians and gentiles are losing their nation. I have had enough. I kept this in the honored wing section, but I really have had it.
IF people dont like the Christians here, LEAVE.
I don't think you should let this get to you. This is like 1% of our forum and most of the people who act like this have been banned (i.e. Tzvi) or have left on their own (i.e. kahaneloyalist). Don't let this one nut spoil your day.
Guys, there is a little more to it, he just didn't present it properly. To sum it up, there is quote from the mishna that all Jews have a portion in the World to Come. Therefore we learn, that ALL JEWS have it, even sinners. We also have the idea of teshuva which is huge, and a Jew should always be expected to do teshuvah. So I guesswhat Ron means is that since they could do teshuva, have a place in the world to come, AND were at Har Sinai, they deserve respect. Personally, I agree with the theory, but I have to admit that I have a very STRONG yestzer hara to go against BAD Jews.
So what if all Jews have a place in the world to come. Firstly, that doesn't necessarily mean a good place depending on the person and his merits, and secondly, it is G-d that awards that, not me or any other person. What is the PC craziness that a Jew cannot criticize a traitorous Jew coming from? Is it Torah? We used to put certain Jews to death. The fact that Jews have a place in the world to come didn't stop us from doing that.
And anyway, there is explanation on that mishna, which says that there are many qualifications to it. It is every Jew except.... x y z etc.... So Jews who do x y z, it implies they dont' have a place.
As to a gentile criticizing self-hating Jews, if they do so within reason and in the proper manner, why is that not allowed? With the right intentions I don't see a problem. Admitted, that some do so without the proper intentions, but I don't think that is a problem on this forum.
And it can be dealt with on a case to case basis without diatribes and counter-diatribe threads against entire groups....
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I have never been for cursing Jews who are legitimately mixed-up in their lives and are just in a bad way. But the vast majority of prominent Jewish leftists have deliberately chosen this lifestyle and deeply and truly feel sorry for Muzzies and other Hitlerites.
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I honestly would say that in most cases on this forum that I have seen, the non Jewish members who trash Jewish traitors like George soros have done a good job with that, and did not seem to be doing so with bad intentions. There were one or two instances where I took issue, and so I took it up with the individual (they seemed to blame leftist Jews for things that weren't even possibly connected, they excessively scapegoated, etc). So I think that person heard me out and toned it down a bit. Otherwise I like what I see in this forum. If there is a problem with a given post, I say state the objection to the individual. Otherwise let's limit the blanket condemnations or ascribing whatever motives to different subgroups in the forum. Not all of us are the same here. There are subsets within subsets and we are still all individuals in all of them.
To all the Muzzie terrorists yemach shemam vezichram. See, I cursed evil gentiles. And sometimes I see that gentiles here bash the enemies of the Jewish people like peace now. Great, we are reciprocal.
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All enemies of the United States, foreign and domestic, get my rebuke. I don't care what their religious or ethnic background is. I respect the Jewish people as a people and a blessed nation, but individuals are another matter entirely.
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To all the Muzzie terrorists yemach shemam vezichram. See, I cursed evil gentiles. And sometimes I see that gentiles here bash the enemies of the Jewish people like peace now. Great, we are reciprocal.
Yes. I do think it goes one step farther than that though. Most people at JTF realize that Moosie terrorists are only able to get away with what they do because self-hating traitor Jewish leaders allow them to get away with it. So, I would say that SHJs are even more dangerous, deadly, and morally culpable than Islamic animals are. Some camelbanger who grew up in a goat-dung hut in the middle of the desert getting raped every Friday at noon by the local imam is a lot like a base wild animal. An educated self-hating Jewish Nazi like Tzipwhora Hitler or Shimon Peresite knows the truth about Islam objectively and instead chooses to identify with it. My guess would be that the hellfire for the Erev Rav Jews is hotter than the hellfire for stupid, ignorant, primitive Nazis.
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בס''ד
Correction:
All Jews have a place in the World to Come but they must do what is required in order to claim that place. There are certain sins which prevent Jews from entering the next world, the world of eternal life.
Certainly the Jewish traitors and informers that we pray against three times a day will not have a place in the world to come.
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We have listen to the Biblical prophecies. Isaiah clearly prophesied that gentiles will play an active part in restoring Israel
Isaiah 14:1 & 2
The LORD will have compassion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Aliens will join them and unite with the house of Jacob.
Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And the house of Israel will possess the nations as menservants and maidservants in the LORD's land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors
Isaiah 49:22
This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "See, I will beckon to the Gentiles, I will lift up my banner to the peoples; they will bring your sons in their arms and carry your daughters on their shoulders.
I think those who left the forum because of their perception that JTF is tolerating Christians did not understand Zionism correctly.
According to Isaiah's prophecies centuries ago gentiles will also participate in the end time Zionist movement.
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Let's let this one go. Nothing will change.
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Let's let this one go. Nothing will change.
No, it wont change. We are not to be 'politically correct' in rebuke. The people OUT THERE do that. I curse the traitors, ALL over, Jew, Gentile, Christian, whatever. IF they repent, FINE, but the damage they have caused will have to be paid in full.
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Let's let this one go. Nothing will change.
No, it wont change. We are not to be 'politically correct' in rebuke. The people OUT THERE do that. I curse the traitors, ALL over, Jew, Gentile, Christian, whatever. IF they repent, FINE, but the damage they have caused will have to be paid in full.
You're correct.
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Let's let this one go. Nothing will change.
No, it wont change. We are not to be 'politically correct' in rebuke. The people OUT THERE do that. I curse the traitors, ALL over, Jew, Gentile, Christian, whatever. IF they repent, FINE, but the damage they have caused will have to be paid in full.
You're correct.
YES, I am correct. "Loving rebuke?' Sorry, that is from the Christian Bible, I am VERY Jewish in THIS respect. I actually would encourage Christians to not be loving to people that hate them anymore. IF thats wrong, I dont want to be right. I know I shouldnt say this, but Christians that love G-d and love us are under a lot of persecution. They need to STAND up and be like crusaders against this evil sh*t. Sorry, thats the way I feel.
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We have listen to the Biblical prophecies. Isaiah clearly prophesied that gentiles will play an active part in restoring Israel
Isaiah 14:1 & 2
The LORD will have compassion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Aliens will join them and unite with the house of Jacob.
Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And the house of Israel will possess the nations as menservants and maidservants in the LORD's land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors
Isaiah 49:22
This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "See, I will beckon to the Gentiles, I will lift up my banner to the peoples; they will bring your sons in their arms and carry your daughters on their shoulders.
I think those who left the forum because of their perception that JTF is tolerating Christians did not understand Zionism correctly.
According to Isaiah's prophecies centuries ago gentiles will also participate in the end time Zionist movement.
correcton: It's the "beginning" of time Zionist movement. LIfe as it is today is the prequel.
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Let's let this one go. Nothing will change.
No, it wont change. We are not to be 'politically correct' in rebuke. The people OUT THERE do that. I curse the traitors, ALL over, Jew, Gentile, Christian, whatever. IF they repent, FINE, but the damage they have caused will have to be paid in full.
You're correct.
YES, I am correct. "Loving rebuke?' Sorry, that is from the Christian Bible, I am VERY Jewish in THIS respect. I actually would encourage Christians to not be loving to people that hate them anymore. IF thats wrong, I dont want to be right. I know I shouldnt say this, but Christians that love G-d and love us are under a lot of persecution. They need to STAND up and be like crusaders against this evil sh*t. Sorry, thats the way I feel.
You are absolutely right! I have been standing up and cannot believe the cowards out there that do NOT! I feel the same way.
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Let's let this one go. Nothing will change.
No, it wont change. We are not to be 'politically correct' in rebuke. The people OUT THERE do that. I curse the traitors, ALL over, Jew, Gentile, Christian, whatever. IF they repent, FINE, but the damage they have caused will have to be paid in full.
Who are you learning this from? The Jewish Torah gives us the mitzvah of rebuke and it is clear that we only rebuke people who are willing to listren to the rebuke. Hatred, anger, and insulting others is DEFINATELY not a Jewish trait... I recommend you go back to your Torah and learn a little before going on a Crusade {A definately xtian thing to do}. What I am saying here is not 'new age' or 'liberal' teachings about the Mitzvah of rebuke. I can bring you drash after drash about this concept, which you seem to misunderstand... You think this is xtian teaching, heck no! So many great sages have expounded on this fact.... Do you want to argue about it? I am willing to support my position with clear sources... Please bring some sources which say we are to rebuke with anger and insult? Go ahead...
And what do you accept as evidence that someone is a 'traitor' in your definition. Do you accept second hand or third hand gossip?
BTW: Cursing others is never considered a form of rebuke..
PS: I have quoted in a previous message the rules concerning who we are allowed to talk negatively about. Those people, the apikorsis and the wicked whom everyone knows, we can curse and deride... But to label all people as 'left-wing' as traitors is a bit too much, and goes beyond the letter of the law...
http://www.ou.org/torah/gelman/rebuke57.html
It is this weeks Torah reading that teaches us the obligation to rebuke. In defense of that Rebee, the literal translation of the verse is "rebuke, repeatedly rebuke your neighbor" if anything he got that part right.
Why does one criticize. What drives a person to rebukes? It seems to me that there are three reasons one would rebuke or criticize.
1. One is the obvious reason; that would be to alter a particular behavior. Now this could be in the religious sphere, if you witness an individual behaving in a way that you believe is religiously prohibited, according to the Torah you would be obligated to point it out. In the words of Shimshon Rephael Hirsch, "Rebuke imposes on every member of the Jewish community generally not to remain silent when they see their Jewish companion’s big or small sins." Likewise in the realm of interpersonal relationships, one is obligated to allude to misdeeds. Again Rav Hirsch recommends placing "...the matter openly....giving an opportunity to justify the behavior or of making amends for it." This is the first reason, an attempt, via rebuke to correct one’s behavior
2. The second reason for reprimand may be in order to avoid what the Talmud calls "silence is equivalent to acquiescence ." To borrow a legal determination from Talmudic legal precedent. If an individual claims ownership of your land by settling there and the rightful owner does not object within three years then the land is transferred to the squatter. The Talmud goes on to explain that even after that initial objection the owner must declare his disapproval at least once every three years. It’s not enough to object once or twice, there must be a consistent voice of disapproval. The reason is to avoid the notion that since there is no voice of objection, then the owner must not care. Similarly when it comes to rebuking someone for a religious or social fault, silence may often be construed as agreement. Perhaps this is what King David meant when he said " Seeing that you hate rebuke, and cast my words away....and if I keep silent, you would think that I am like you" This is the second reason, to "go on record" so to speak about your disapproval
3. The third reason for reprimanding is less obvious. I’d like to suggest that the reason we tell people of our disapproval of their behavior is in order to show them that we care about them. It’s the ultimate way to illustrate that what others do matters to you. I’ve often heard the expression "you can love me or you can hate me, but please don’t ignore me." No one wants to be ignored.
Let me give you an example from personal experience.
It was just a few weeks ago when I ran into an old student of mine. The truth is that he had cut school that day and his parents didn’t know where he was. He now had to go home and face parents. As soon as I saw him I knew that something was wrong. I asked him if he was O.K. he told me yes but as I started to walk away I felt that he wasn’t O.K. I asked him if he wanted to talk and he immediately opened up to me about all that had happened that day and that he was scared to face his parents. He was just
waiting for someone to pay attention to him, even if I did have to tell him in on uncertain terms that what he did was wrong, wrong to treat his parents that way, wrong to cause a scare in his school and dangerous. But frankly he wasn’t upset at my position, in fact he was relieved and comforted. So this is the third reason, to indicate to another that what they do matters to you.
Now all of these reasons are important, effort to change someone’s inappropriate behavior, indicating that you don’t agree with a particular behavior and showing that we care. Which one is the most important, or better yet which one was the reason that the Torah had in mind.
I think that the third reason is the primary reason. The reason I think so is based on a very odd juxtaposition. Before we are told about "rebuke your fellow" we are told "you should not hate your brother in your heart." Now if the primary reason for the Mitzvah of rebuke was to change behavior or to indicate disagreement then there is no inherent reason to connect the restriction of hating your brother. One may hate the individual they are trying to change. Sure it may not be the kindest or most efficient way to affect a change but fundamentally it can be done. On the other hand if the intention of "Tochachah" is to show others that you are concerned of course and essential ingredient would be removing hatred. It would be absurd contradiction of terms to think that one could indicate concern and care if you hate your brother in your heart. If you hate someone, then you don’t care if they behave in a way that is dangerous or hurtful to you. Simply, you ignore whatever it is that they do.
These are the words of the famed Avnei Ezel "True rebuke is only possible to those we love, whose behavior touches our heart and we wish for their improvement. Similar to a parent who rebukes a child and not someone else’s child. The closer you are to a person, the greater the love and the more sincere the rebuke. Rebuke that is the byproduct of love has the greatest affect....Without "do not hate" there cannot be rebuke.
...
http://www.torah.org/learning/lifeline/5760/noach.html
In the Torah, we learn that we have a mitzvah to correct others when they make mistakes: "...you shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and you shall not bear sin because of him." [Lev. 19:17] But the word "rebuke" has harsh connotations which are entirely inappropriate in this context. What is supposed to take place is a heart-to-heart transmission of love and concern for the individual making the error. A person should correct himself or herself first, for otherwise, how can he or she claim to be motivated only by the severity of the issue? And similarly, Maimonides says that the rebuke must be delivered in a gentle voice -- and Rabbi Chaim of Volozhin said that this is a mandatory prerequisite. One cannot fulfill the mitzvah of rebuke by shouting.
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Let's let this one go. Nothing will change.
No, it wont change. We are not to be 'politically correct' in rebuke. The people OUT THERE do that. I curse the traitors, ALL over, Jew, Gentile, Christian, whatever. IF they repent, FINE, but the damage they have caused will have to be paid in full.
Who are you learning this from? The Jewish Torah gives us the mitzvah of rebuke and it is clear that we only rebuke people who are willing to listren to the rebuke. Hatred, anger, and insulting others is DEFINATELY not a Jewish trait... I recommend you go back to your Torah and learn a little before going on a Crusade {A definately xtian thing to do}. What I am saying here is not 'new age' or 'liberal' teachings about the Mitzvah of rebuke. I can bring you drash after drash about this concept, which you seem to misunderstand... You think this is xtian teaching, heck no! So many great sages have expounded on this fact.... Do you want to argue about it? I am willing to support my position with clear sources... Please bring some sources which say we are to rebuke with anger and insult? Go ahead...
And what do you accept as evidence that someone is a 'traitor' in your definition. Do you accept second hand or third hand gossip?
BTW: Cursing others is never considered a form of rebuke..
PS: I have quoted in a previous message the rules concerning who we are allowed to talk negatively about. Those people, the apikorsis and the wicked whom everyone knows, we can curse and deride... But to label all people as 'left-wing' as traitors is a bit too much, and goes beyond the letter of the law...
http://www.ou.org/torah/gelman/rebuke57.html
It is this weeks Torah reading that teaches us the obligation to rebuke. In defense of that Rebee, the literal translation of the verse is "rebuke, repeatedly rebuke your neighbor" if anything he got that part right.
Why does one criticize. What drives a person to rebukes? It seems to me that there are three reasons one would rebuke or criticize.
1. One is the obvious reason; that would be to alter a particular behavior. Now this could be in the religious sphere, if you witness an individual behaving in a way that you believe is religiously prohibited, according to the Torah you would be obligated to point it out. In the words of Shimshon Rephael Hirsch, "Rebuke imposes on every member of the Jewish community generally not to remain silent when they see their Jewish companion’s big or small sins." Likewise in the realm of interpersonal relationships, one is obligated to allude to misdeeds. Again Rav Hirsch recommends placing "...the matter openly....giving an opportunity to justify the behavior or of making amends for it." This is the first reason, an attempt, via rebuke to correct one’s behavior
2. The second reason for reprimand may be in order to avoid what the Talmud calls "silence is equivalent to acquiescence ." To borrow a legal determination from Talmudic legal precedent. If an individual claims ownership of your land by settling there and the rightful owner does not object within three years then the land is transferred to the squatter. The Talmud goes on to explain that even after that initial objection the owner must declare his disapproval at least once every three years. It’s not enough to object once or twice, there must be a consistent voice of disapproval. The reason is to avoid the notion that since there is no voice of objection, then the owner must not care. Similarly when it comes to rebuking someone for a religious or social fault, silence may often be construed as agreement. Perhaps this is what King David meant when he said " Seeing that you hate rebuke, and cast my words away....and if I keep silent, you would think that I am like you" This is the second reason, to "go on record" so to speak about your disapproval
3. The third reason for reprimanding is less obvious. I’d like to suggest that the reason we tell people of our disapproval of their behavior is in order to show them that we care about them. It’s the ultimate way to illustrate that what others do matters to you. I’ve often heard the expression "you can love me or you can hate me, but please don’t ignore me." No one wants to be ignored.
Let me give you an example from personal experience.
It was just a few weeks ago when I ran into an old student of mine. The truth is that he had cut school that day and his parents didn’t know where he was. He now had to go home and face parents. As soon as I saw him I knew that something was wrong. I asked him if he was O.K. he told me yes but as I started to walk away I felt that he wasn’t O.K. I asked him if he wanted to talk and he immediately opened up to me about all that had happened that day and that he was scared to face his parents. He was just
waiting for someone to pay attention to him, even if I did have to tell him in on uncertain terms that what he did was wrong, wrong to treat his parents that way, wrong to cause a scare in his school and dangerous. But frankly he wasn’t upset at my position, in fact he was relieved and comforted. So this is the third reason, to indicate to another that what they do matters to you.
Now all of these reasons are important, effort to change someone’s inappropriate behavior, indicating that you don’t agree with a particular behavior and showing that we care. Which one is the most important, or better yet which one was the reason that the Torah had in mind.
I think that the third reason is the primary reason. The reason I think so is based on a very odd juxtaposition. Before we are told about "rebuke your fellow" we are told "you should not hate your brother in your heart." Now if the primary reason for the Mitzvah of rebuke was to change behavior or to indicate disagreement then there is no inherent reason to connect the restriction of hating your brother. One may hate the individual they are trying to change. Sure it may not be the kindest or most efficient way to affect a change but fundamentally it can be done. On the other hand if the intention of "Tochachah" is to show others that you are concerned of course and essential ingredient would be removing hatred. It would be absurd contradiction of terms to think that one could indicate concern and care if you hate your brother in your heart. If you hate someone, then you don’t care if they behave in a way that is dangerous or hurtful to you. Simply, you ignore whatever it is that they do.
These are the words of the famed Avnei Ezel "True rebuke is only possible to those we love, whose behavior touches our heart and we wish for their improvement. Similar to a parent who rebukes a child and not someone else’s child. The closer you are to a person, the greater the love and the more sincere the rebuke. Rebuke that is the byproduct of love has the greatest affect....Without "do not hate" there cannot be rebuke.
...
We're not dealing with rebuking. None of them reads this forum,lol. The issue is mainly a goy speaking loshon hora about a Jew.
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<snip>
We're not dealing with rebuking. None of them reads this forum,lol. The issue is mainly a goy speaking loshon hora about a Jew.
Was that the topic? I forgot... I thought this thread was concerning Jews speaking lashon hara about non-Jews... Either way I hope that someone learns the laws of Lashon Hara and starts to think about what they say and how it influences other people... That is why we have these laws in order to bring about a better world...
It is good to be vigilant and to obviously rebuke obvious evil. I openly and unashamedly have rebuked the NK because they certainly deserve rebuke. I rebuke the Israeli bolshevik government because it acts in an evil and heretical way.... I rebuke all enemies of Israel because I hope that they may survive to see the coming of Moshiach...
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This thread was originally about non-Jews on this forum rebuking left wing, Israel hating, self hating Jews.
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I THINK ANYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO REBUKE DICK SILVERSTEIN
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/17/israeli-rabbi-who-endorses-goyicide-supported-by-state/
OR THIS DEVIL PHILLIP WEISS
http://mondoweiss.net/
AS WELL THIS GROUP
http://jewishpeacenews.blogspot.com/
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I THINK ANYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO REBUKE DICK SILVERSTEIN
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/11/17/israeli-rabbi-who-endorses-goyicide-supported-by-state/
OR THIS DEVIL PHILLIP WEISS
http://mondoweiss.net/
AS WELL THIS GROUP
http://jewishpeacenews.blogspot.com/
From what I have heard from forum members these groups certainly deserve much rebuke and they may even warrant curses... But I don't know enough about the individuals to personally engage in such speech... I dont object to others, with more knowledge of the wrongdoing by these groups to go ahead and denigrate them. But I will not repeat it unless I have seen proof...
I certainly know about peacenow and they are on my list of "OK to curse" groups... They do much damage to Jewish unity and are working to destroy Israel.
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You can't "rebuke" somebody unless you have an audience with them. The stuff we say on here about Jewish traitors are curses. As Chaim said, these people (like Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, Joey Cohen, etc.) are cut off from the Jewish people and are the enemies of Jews. So if non-Jews curse these people it is no different than if they are cursing Nazis, which is a righteous thing to do for people who truly love the Jewish people. The Torah is not a Jewish supremacy document that makes Jewish people immune to criticism by virtue of their blood line. It is not Jew vs. non-Jew, it's good vs. evil.
There are most certainly laws about what we can say about fellow Jews... Read about the laws of Lashon Hara... Sure, anyone can say anything they want about anyone, but if they say so without following the rules, it may bring misfortune to the one making the curse... We don't accept heresay evidence... We are not supposed to accept a false report... Only by two or three witnesses is evidence considered true. Reading an article in the newspaper is no different than gossip unless there are witnesses. If the community labels one as an apikorsis then it is accepted that we can denigrate them.
Non Jews dont need to consider their speech because these laws are among the 613 incumbent on the Jewish people. I will watch what I say about others because what is written about those who curse others is not very good.... Some sages believe the laws concerning evil speech are amongst THE MOST IMPORTANT among all the commandments...
PS: I have agreed for the most part about cursing those who are obviously rodefim {pursuers of the Jewish people}... But I have seen some here curse others for whom the evidence is not so strong.
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We understand the halachos for Jews doing it. The point of the thread was whether or not goyim can or should do the "rebuking" or what have you.
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Lemalshimin ayn tikvah
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To all the Muzzie terrorists yemach shemam vezichram. See, I cursed evil gentiles. And sometimes I see that gentiles here bash the enemies of the Jewish people like peace now. Great, we are reciprocal.
Yes. I do think it goes one step farther than that though. Most people at JTF realize that Moosie terrorists are only able to get away with what they do because self-hating traitor Jewish leaders allow them to get away with it. So, I would say that SHJs are even more dangerous, deadly, and morally culpable than Islamic animals are. Some camelbanger who grew up in a goat-dung hut in the middle of the desert getting raped every Friday at noon by the local imam is a lot like a base wild animal. An educated self-hating Jewish Nazi like Tzipwhora Hitler or Shimon Peresite knows the truth about Islam objectively and instead chooses to identify with it. My guess would be that the hellfire for the Erev Rav Jews is hotter than the hellfire for stupid, ignorant, primitive Nazis.
Why single out self hating Jews in that regard, then? Politically correct non-Jews are just the same if not worse. Bush and obama prime among them.
Your comment, if it is actually true that "most" forum members think that way or assume what you assume, makes me reconsider what I wrote and what I think about the forum and its viewers. What you have done here is the exact definition of the unfair type of criticism for leftist Jews (albeit our enemies). For something they do equally with non-Jewish losers, you have tried to present as if they (leftist Jews) are solely responsible. It is this type of intention that I find wrong.
Otherwise, usually comments seem to have the right intention, that those who commit treason against the Jewish people are wicked and deserve to be bashed for it. That's a great intention. Taking some flaw that is equally shared with non-Jewish leftists and then casting blame entirely on the leftist Jews is not.
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Let's let this one go. Nothing will change.
No, it wont change. We are not to be 'politically correct' in rebuke. The people OUT THERE do that. I curse the traitors, ALL over, Jew, Gentile, Christian, whatever. IF they repent, FINE, but the damage they have caused will have to be paid in full.
Who are you learning this from? The Jewish Torah gives us the mitzvah of rebuke and it is clear that we only rebuke people who are willing to listren to the rebuke. Hatred, anger, and insulting others is DEFINATELY not a Jewish trait... I recommend you go back to your Torah and learn a little before going on a Crusade {A definately xtian thing to do}. What I am saying here is not 'new age' or 'liberal' teachings about the Mitzvah of rebuke. I can bring you drash after drash about this concept, which you seem to misunderstand... You think this is xtian teaching, heck no! So many great sages have expounded on this fact.... Do you want to argue about it? I am willing to support my position with clear sources... Please bring some sources which say we are to rebuke with anger and insult? Go ahead...
And what do you accept as evidence that someone is a 'traitor' in your definition. Do you accept second hand or third hand gossip?
BTW: Cursing others is never considered a form of rebuke..
PS: I have quoted in a previous message the rules concerning who we are allowed to talk negatively about. Those people, the apikorsis and the wicked whom everyone knows, we can curse and deride... But to label all people as 'left-wing' as traitors is a bit too much, and goes beyond the letter of the law...
http://www.ou.org/torah/gelman/rebuke57.html
It is this weeks Torah reading that teaches us the obligation to rebuke. In defense of that Rebee, the literal translation of the verse is "rebuke, repeatedly rebuke your neighbor" if anything he got that part right.
Why does one criticize. What drives a person to rebukes? It seems to me that there are three reasons one would rebuke or criticize.
1. One is the obvious reason; that would be to alter a particular behavior. Now this could be in the religious sphere, if you witness an individual behaving in a way that you believe is religiously prohibited, according to the Torah you would be obligated to point it out. In the words of Shimshon Rephael Hirsch, "Rebuke imposes on every member of the Jewish community generally not to remain silent when they see their Jewish companion’s big or small sins." Likewise in the realm of interpersonal relationships, one is obligated to allude to misdeeds. Again Rav Hirsch recommends placing "...the matter openly....giving an opportunity to justify the behavior or of making amends for it." This is the first reason, an attempt, via rebuke to correct one’s behavior
2. The second reason for reprimand may be in order to avoid what the Talmud calls "silence is equivalent to acquiescence ." To borrow a legal determination from Talmudic legal precedent. If an individual claims ownership of your land by settling there and the rightful owner does not object within three years then the land is transferred to the squatter. The Talmud goes on to explain that even after that initial objection the owner must declare his disapproval at least once every three years. It’s not enough to object once or twice, there must be a consistent voice of disapproval. The reason is to avoid the notion that since there is no voice of objection, then the owner must not care. Similarly when it comes to rebuking someone for a religious or social fault, silence may often be construed as agreement. Perhaps this is what King David meant when he said " Seeing that you hate rebuke, and cast my words away....and if I keep silent, you would think that I am like you" This is the second reason, to "go on record" so to speak about your disapproval
3. The third reason for reprimanding is less obvious. I’d like to suggest that the reason we tell people of our disapproval of their behavior is in order to show them that we care about them. It’s the ultimate way to illustrate that what others do matters to you. I’ve often heard the expression "you can love me or you can hate me, but please don’t ignore me." No one wants to be ignored.
Let me give you an example from personal experience.
It was just a few weeks ago when I ran into an old student of mine. The truth is that he had cut school that day and his parents didn’t know where he was. He now had to go home and face parents. As soon as I saw him I knew that something was wrong. I asked him if he was O.K. he told me yes but as I started to walk away I felt that he wasn’t O.K. I asked him if he wanted to talk and he immediately opened up to me about all that had happened that day and that he was scared to face his parents. He was just
waiting for someone to pay attention to him, even if I did have to tell him in on uncertain terms that what he did was wrong, wrong to treat his parents that way, wrong to cause a scare in his school and dangerous. But frankly he wasn’t upset at my position, in fact he was relieved and comforted. So this is the third reason, to indicate to another that what they do matters to you.
Now all of these reasons are important, effort to change someone’s inappropriate behavior, indicating that you don’t agree with a particular behavior and showing that we care. Which one is the most important, or better yet which one was the reason that the Torah had in mind.
I think that the third reason is the primary reason. The reason I think so is based on a very odd juxtaposition. Before we are told about "rebuke your fellow" we are told "you should not hate your brother in your heart." Now if the primary reason for the Mitzvah of rebuke was to change behavior or to indicate disagreement then there is no inherent reason to connect the restriction of hating your brother. One may hate the individual they are trying to change. Sure it may not be the kindest or most efficient way to affect a change but fundamentally it can be done. On the other hand if the intention of "Tochachah" is to show others that you are concerned of course and essential ingredient would be removing hatred. It would be absurd contradiction of terms to think that one could indicate concern and care if you hate your brother in your heart. If you hate someone, then you don’t care if they behave in a way that is dangerous or hurtful to you. Simply, you ignore whatever it is that they do.
These are the words of the famed Avnei Ezel "True rebuke is only possible to those we love, whose behavior touches our heart and we wish for their improvement. Similar to a parent who rebukes a child and not someone else’s child. The closer you are to a person, the greater the love and the more sincere the rebuke. Rebuke that is the byproduct of love has the greatest affect....Without "do not hate" there cannot be rebuke.
...
http://www.torah.org/learning/lifeline/5760/noach.html
In the Torah, we learn that we have a mitzvah to correct others when they make mistakes: "...you shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and you shall not bear sin because of him." [Lev. 19:17] But the word "rebuke" has harsh connotations which are entirely inappropriate in this context. What is supposed to take place is a heart-to-heart transmission of love and concern for the individual making the error. A person should correct himself or herself first, for otherwise, how can he or she claim to be motivated only by the severity of the issue? And similarly, Maimonides says that the rebuke must be delivered in a gentle voice -- and Rabbi Chaim of Volozhin said that this is a mandatory prerequisite. One cannot fulfill the mitzvah of rebuke by shouting.
You know what Muman, instead of always wanting to kiss enemy a **, why not love the people that have loved you, huh??
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Why single out self hating Jews in that regard, then? Politically correct non-Jews are just the same if not worse. Bush and obama prime among them.
Your comment, if it is actually true that "most" forum members think that way or assume what you assume, makes me reconsider what I wrote and what I think about the forum and its viewers. What you have done here is the exact definition of the unfair type of criticism for leftist Jews (albeit our enemies). For something they do equally with non-Jewish losers, you have tried to present as if they (leftist Jews) are solely responsible. It is this type of intention that I find wrong.
Otherwise, usually comments seem to have the right intention, that those who commit treason against the Jewish people are wicked and deserve to be bashed for it. That's a great intention. Taking some flaw that is equally shared with non-Jewish leftists and then casting blame entirely on the leftist Jews is not.
Of course the same applies to self-hating Gentiles. The reason I "singled-out" SHJs in this post was because the whole topic of the thread was whether or not Gentiles can attack self-hating, evil Jews. In the specific case of the Israel situation, it is Jews who have ultimate control, not Gentiles. BHO and the United Nazis can badger Israel all they want, but it is the kapos in power who have the ability to make or break the Jewish state, not international Nazis (as evil as they are).
And yes, I hold the Euro/UN/Obamunist Nazis more morally culpable than illiterate gutter Arab slime too.
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You know what Muman, instead of always wanting to kiss enemy a **, why not love the people that have loved you, huh??
Paulette, I do agree with your position on this issue but I don't think this was called for. We should keep our debating civil.
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You know what Muman, instead of always wanting to kiss enemy a **, why not love the people that have loved you, huh??
Paulette, I do agree with your position on this issue but I don't think this was called for. We should keep our debating civil.
Then leave ME out of it, I am NOT going to kiss any leftist Bolshevik peoples tuchas (BETTER?) They can rot in hell for all I care. They make MY life MISERABLE every day. THANK G-d that my mom and dad were NOT like that.
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That's not what I meant. I meant that you didn't need to say that about Muman. We differ with him, but we should keep it respectful.
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That's not what I meant. I meant that you didn't need to say that about Muman. We differ with him, but we should keep it respectful.
בס''ד
Absolutely. We can have differences of opinion but we should be respectful and civil in expressing our disagreements.
Muman is a very good Jew and he deserves to be treated with respect.
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I was looking at the Code of Jewish Law over Shabbos and read a few fascinating halachas that I would like to post on this topic. Howver, I won't be doing this because a) It's a lot to type and I don't think many will read it and b) I don't know how many Orthodox Jews there are on this forum anyways, meaning it would be a waste of time to post things that people won't care about. You could probably find most halachos online anyways.
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A righteous gentile is called in Judaism a חסיד אומות העולם, and a righteous Jew is a called a צדיק. and a חסיד is on a higher level (מדרגה) than a צדיק because he is doing לפנים משורת הדין (more than what he is supposed to do).
Certainly a righteous gentile is on a much higher level than a evil Jew (רשע) and of course he has the right to curse them (חכמה בגויים תאמין).
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Mo post them plz, I love reading Jewish writings and am very interested.
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Mo post them plz, I love reading Jewish writings and am very interested.
Not tonight. I'm too tired to write all of it.
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Mo post them plz, I love reading Jewish writings and am very interested.
Not tonight. I'm too tired to write all of it.
Cut & paste....
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I don't think anybody can try to push his ideas up somebody else unless he is downright evil. You don't have to agree with anyone but you should keep your arrogance for more important matters. You should keep telling others what they can't say to your own private property.
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Why single out self hating Jews in that regard, then? Politically correct non-Jews are just the same if not worse. Bush and obama prime among them.
Your comment, if it is actually true that "most" forum members think that way or assume what you assume, makes me reconsider what I wrote and what I think about the forum and its viewers. What you have done here is the exact definition of the unfair type of criticism for leftist Jews (albeit our enemies). For something they do equally with non-Jewish losers, you have tried to present as if they (leftist Jews) are solely responsible. It is this type of intention that I find wrong.
Otherwise, usually comments seem to have the right intention, that those who commit treason against the Jewish people are wicked and deserve to be bashed for it. That's a great intention. Taking some flaw that is equally shared with non-Jewish leftists and then casting blame entirely on the leftist Jews is not.
Of course the same applies to self-hating Gentiles. The reason I "singled-out" SHJs in this post was because the whole topic of the thread was whether or not Gentiles can attack self-hating, evil Jews. In the specific case of the Israel situation, it is Jews who have ultimate control, not Gentiles. BHO and the United Nazis can badger Israel all they want, but it is the kapos in power who have the ability to make or break the Jewish state, not international Nazis (as evil as they are).
And yes, I hold the Euro/UN/Obamunist Nazis more morally culpable than illiterate gutter Arab slime too.
Ok, but it is not just in Israel that western leaders surrender to Islam. So you can't blame Israel or Israeli leaders for surrender that takes place elsewhere, in which case it is done by politically correct gentiles.