Christian and Gentile Bashing? Evil Erav-Rav "blessing?"

[AsheDina]

I have been on this forum for over 2 years.  It is the right thing to do to rebuke left wing Erav-Rav traitors to the Jewish people--these TRAITORS are George Soros, Turi Karta, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, ETC.  IT IS RIGHT that Christian people stand against this, else they COULD become total Jew-haters, NOT being able to make a differentiation, thinking that "ALL JEWS ARE THE SAME. 

  This other Jewish man, says that Gentiles and Christians have 'no right' to criticize these people that are DESTROYING their CHRISTIAN nation.  SHAME ON YOU.

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY HAD IT--UP TO HERE ^^^^, with the bashing of Gentiles and Christians on this forum, they are dedicated, they are FULL of love, and have shown MORE decency than some SNOTTY, KNOW IT ALL Jewish brethren. 
They GIVE HOURS to building us, they are NOT 'nazis' they are RIGHTEOUS.  In my book, that is the SAME as being a Jew themselves. 
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH NOW.  

I WILL NOT STOP---EVER from calling out the EVIL ERAV RAV- in the end, I will have SAVED LIVES. 

ENOUGH CHRISTIAN BASHING.  Left wing Jews, left wing FRAUD Christians DESERVE ALL that they have coming, END OF STORY. 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Paulette, one member is doing it. I don't know why he's having a meltdown, but we will all do well to just ignore it and his thread.

[AsheDina]

Bones, this is ongoing.  Christians and gentiles are losing their nation.  I have had enough.  I kept this in the honored wing section, but I really have had it.
IF people dont like the Christians here, LEAVE.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Bones, this is ongoing.  Christians and gentiles are losing their nation.  I have had enough.  I kept this in the honored wing section, but I really have had it.
IF people dont like the Christians here, LEAVE.

I don't think you should let this get to you. This is like 1% of our forum and most of the people who act like this have been banned (i.e. Tzvi) or have left on their own (i.e. kahaneloyalist). Don't let this one nut spoil your day.

[The One and Only Mo]

Bones, this is ongoing.  Christians and gentiles are losing their nation.  I have had enough.  I kept this in the honored wing section, but I really have had it.
IF people dont like the Christians here, LEAVE.

I don't think you should let this get to you. This is like 1% of our forum and most of the people who act like this have been banned (i.e. Tzvi) or have left on their own (i.e. kahaneloyalist). Don't let this one nut spoil your day.

Guys, there is a little more to it, he just didn't present it properly. To sum it up, there is quote from the mishna that all Jews have a portion in the World to Come. Therefore we learn, that ALL JEWS have it, even sinners. We also have the idea of teshuva which is huge, and a Jew should always be expected to do teshuvah. So I guesswhat Ron means is that since they could do teshuva, have a place in the world to come, AND were at Har Sinai, they deserve respect. Personally, I agree with the theory, but I have to admit that I have a very STRONG yestzer hara to go against BAD Jews.

[AsheDina]

Well, understand that MANY Christians and gentiles have entered into our sufferings, and deserve our love:

[muman613]

Ron, I respect you but you need to know limitations. JTF is not exclusively Jewish and we thrive on the support of the nations. I agree that we cannot rely on the nations, as history has shown, but it seems that there are some non-Jews who are supportive of the goals of the Jewish nation. There is no reason that I see that they cannot assist, as long as their motivation is purely for assisting the Jews in establishing the Messianic kingdom in this world. I am against those non-jews who are using the Jews to acheive their own vision of prophecy {like some xtian denominations}.

I dont think we should argue like this. These kinds of arguments end in hurt feelings, chillul Hashem, and anger.

I love all honest and good willed JTF members, regardless of whether they are Jewish, fully Jewish, or non-Jewish..

[New Yorker]

I have been on this forum for over 2 years.  It is the right thing to do to rebuke left wing Erav-Rav traitors to the Jewish people--these TRAITORS are George Soros, Turi Karta, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, ETC.  IT IS RIGHT that Christian people stand against this, else they COULD become total Jew-haters, NOT being able to make a differentiation, thinking that "ALL JEWS ARE THE SAME. 

  This other Jewish man, says that Gentiles and Christians have 'no right' to criticize these people that are DESTROYING their CHRISTIAN nation.  SHAME ON YOU.

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY HAD IT--UP TO HERE ^^^^, with the bashing of Gentiles and Christians on this forum, they are dedicated, they are FULL of love, and have shown MORE decency than some SNOTTY, KNOW IT ALL Jewish brethren. 
They GIVE HOURS to building us, they are NOT 'nazis' they are RIGHTEOUS.  In my book, that is the SAME as being a Jew themselves. 
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH NOW.  

I WILL NOT STOP---EVER from calling out the EVIL ERAV RAV- in the end, I will have SAVED LIVES. 

ENOUGH CHRISTIAN BASHING.  Left wing Jews, left wing FRAUD Christians DESERVE ALL that they have coming, END OF STORY. 

Spot on!

[muman613]

I have been on this forum for over 2 years.  It is the right thing to do to rebuke left wing Erav-Rav traitors to the Jewish people--these TRAITORS are George Soros, Turi Karta, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, ETC.  IT IS RIGHT that Christian people stand against this, else they COULD become total Jew-haters, NOT being able to make a differentiation, thinking that "ALL JEWS ARE THE SAME. 

  This other Jewish man, says that Gentiles and Christians have 'no right' to criticize these people that are DESTROYING their CHRISTIAN nation.  SHAME ON YOU.

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY HAD IT--UP TO HERE ^^^^, with the bashing of Gentiles and Christians on this forum, they are dedicated, they are FULL of love, and have shown MORE decency than some SNOTTY, KNOW IT ALL Jewish brethren. 
They GIVE HOURS to building us, they are NOT 'nazis' they are RIGHTEOUS.  In my book, that is the SAME as being a Jew themselves. 
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH NOW.  

I WILL NOT STOP---EVER from calling out the EVIL ERAV RAV- in the end, I will have SAVED LIVES. 

ENOUGH CHRISTIAN BASHING.  Left wing Jews, left wing FRAUD Christians DESERVE ALL that they have coming, END OF STORY. 

Spot on!

Everyone, righteous or wicked deserve all they have coming... But who are you to decide who deserves what punishment? The Torah doesn't command you to insult and name call anyone...

[The One and Only Mo]

I have been on this forum for over 2 years.  It is the right thing to do to rebuke left wing Erav-Rav traitors to the Jewish people--these TRAITORS are George Soros, Turi Karta, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, ETC.  IT IS RIGHT that Christian people stand against this, else they COULD become total Jew-haters, NOT being able to make a differentiation, thinking that "ALL JEWS ARE THE SAME. 

  This other Jewish man, says that Gentiles and Christians have 'no right' to criticize these people that are DESTROYING their CHRISTIAN nation.  SHAME ON YOU.

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY HAD IT--UP TO HERE ^^^^, with the bashing of Gentiles and Christians on this forum, they are dedicated, they are FULL of love, and have shown MORE decency than some SNOTTY, KNOW IT ALL Jewish brethren. 
They GIVE HOURS to building us, they are NOT 'nazis' they are RIGHTEOUS.  In my book, that is the SAME as being a Jew themselves. 
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH NOW.  

I WILL NOT STOP---EVER from calling out the EVIL ERAV RAV- in the end, I will have SAVED LIVES. 

ENOUGH CHRISTIAN BASHING.  Left wing Jews, left wing FRAUD Christians DESERVE ALL that they have coming, END OF STORY. 

Spot on!

Everyone, righteous or wicked deserve all they have coming... But who are you to decide who deserves what punishment? The Torah doesn't command you to insult and name call anyone...

There are some instances where it's a mitzvah to speak ill of someone.

[muman613]

I have been on this forum for over 2 years.  It is the right thing to do to rebuke left wing Erav-Rav traitors to the Jewish people--these TRAITORS are George Soros, Turi Karta, Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, ETC.  IT IS RIGHT that Christian people stand against this, else they COULD become total Jew-haters, NOT being able to make a differentiation, thinking that "ALL JEWS ARE THE SAME. 

  This other Jewish man, says that Gentiles and Christians have 'no right' to criticize these people that are DESTROYING their CHRISTIAN nation.  SHAME ON YOU.

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY HAD IT--UP TO HERE ^^^^, with the bashing of Gentiles and Christians on this forum, they are dedicated, they are FULL of love, and have shown MORE decency than some SNOTTY, KNOW IT ALL Jewish brethren. 
They GIVE HOURS to building us, they are NOT 'nazis' they are RIGHTEOUS.  In my book, that is the SAME as being a Jew themselves. 
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH NOW.  

I WILL NOT STOP---EVER from calling out the EVIL ERAV RAV- in the end, I will have SAVED LIVES. 

ENOUGH CHRISTIAN BASHING.  Left wing Jews, left wing FRAUD Christians DESERVE ALL that they have coming, END OF STORY. 

Spot on!

Everyone, righteous or wicked deserve all they have coming... But who are you to decide who deserves what punishment? The Torah doesn't command you to insult and name call anyone...

There are some instances where it's a mitzvah to speak ill of someone.

Yes, I have studied the laws of Lashon Hara... There are some exceptions to the prohibition of speaking it when:

http://www.torah.org/learning/halashon/chapter8.html

5. Speaking Lashon Hara About a Heretic

The prohibition against speaking Lashon Hara applies when spoken about someone who is considered "amitecha" (of your people), namely in observance of Torah and mitzvot. However, regarding those who are recognizably "apikorsim" (heretics), it is a mitzvah (fulfillment of a positive commandment) to disparage and shame them, to their face and behind their back, for everything that one witnesses or hears about them.

The Torah states (Lev. 25:17 & Lev. 19:16) "One should not wrong his fellow" and "Do not act as a talebearer among your people," but heretics do not fit under this category for they do not act as "your people." Therefore, we follow the practice (as taught in Avot D'Rabbi Natan, a work from the Talmudic era), "those who hate you, L-rd, I will hate, and your rebellious ones I will dispute."

An "apikorus" (heretic) is one who denies the laws and prophecies of Israel, whether the Written Law or Oral Law. Even if he says, "All the Torah is true with the exception of one Scriptural verse, kal v'chomer, g'zeira shava, or one grammatical detail," he is included in this category. ["Kal v'chomer" and "g'zeira shava" are Talmudic terms for two of the logical principles from which we understand many laws.]

*Important note: there is a large in-between category not mentioned in this paragraph, namely those who do not observe - or even commit some sins - but without the malicious intent of heresy. Lashon Hara against someone in this middle category is forbidden. The purpose of these laws permitting speech against an actual heretic is not for a community to degenerate into nasty name-calling, but rather to protect itself against the influence of those who flagrantly do not care about the image they set for the community and even intentionally wish to destroy it.


6. Determining Whether Someone is Considered an Apikorus

[The permissibility to speak against an apikorus (heretic)] applies if one heard words of heresy directly from an individual. However, if he heard the heresy second hand, he is forbidden to speak against the person, whether in his presence or behind his back. Rather, he should suspect the person as an apikorus, and also warn others to stay away from him until the matter is clarified. Further, he should not believe in his heart that the information is true, according to the laws against accepting Lashon Hara discussed in chapter 6.

Verification is required when one hears that an ordinary person has spoken heresy, but if the person is a publicly confirmed heretic one may speak Lashon Hara about him as if he heard the heresy himself.


7. Speaking Lashon Hara about an Established Sinner

If a resident of a city is an established sinner, violating well-known laws, it is permissible to speak Lashon Hara about him.

(Here the Chafetz Chaim refers to his footnote enumerating the conditions that must be fulfilled to speak Lashon Hara in this case:

   1. The speaker must have constructive intentions to encourage others to avoid the ways of evil, once they realize that such behavior is disparaged, and perhaps even to inspire the sinner himself to repent. He should not intend to benefit from exposing the other's faults, nor should he speak out of hatred.

   2. The speaker may not exaggerate about the subject's behavior.

   3. The speaker also should not act deceitfully, disparaging the person privately behind his back, yet flattering him in his presence; he should be comfortable speaking about him publicly. If, however he has a specific fear of retribution or swishes to avoid a public controversy, he may tell individuals privately. The speaker must be certain that his intentions are to prevent others from learning from the sinner's evil ways.)

Who is classified as an established sinner? One who is designated as such by the town elders, based on which there can be no doubt, due to constant, numerous reports regarding his adulterous acts or other transgressions that are of the type that everyone knows they are forbidden.

If, however, there were only a rumor about him, it would be forbidden on that basis to speak against him, Heaven forbid. Even to decide in one's heart is forbidden, as we discussed previously in chapter 7.


8. Speaking Lashon Hara about Ba'alei Machloket

Regarding the permissibility to speak Lashon Hara about those who are "ba'alei machloket" (people who are either polemic by nature or regularly engage in prolonged public disputes), it applies in certain circumstances. If a dispute is rooted in a deception [which violates Torah law] on the part of one side [thereby called a "ba'al machloket"], and if exposure of the deception will reveal that his position violates the halacha and will, therefore, more quickly resolve the dispute, then Lashon Hara is permitted. If the dispute will not be resolved as a result of the Lashon Hara, it is forbidden.

In addition, the following conditions are required:

   1. The individual or group on the deceiving side are established "ba'alei machloket," not merely rumored to be such, but rather verified by the speaker himself.

   2. The speaker must have pure intentions, as discussed above. He must speak out of desire to resolve the quarrel, not out of hatred.

   3. If silencing the dispute can be done by means other than speaking about the dishonest individual or group, such as direct rebuke or the like, it is forbidden to resort to Lashon Hara. (Unless he is afraid to rebuke them, for when they learn that he does not agree with them, they will negate what he tells others, and he will have no way to further address the situation.)

Speaking against ba'alei machloket requires careful consideration, and one should not rush to decide that one side is wrong and conclude that they are the ba'alei machloket. Rather, he must deliberate tHaraughly according to the guidelines of Torah law. And if one cannot clarify which of the parties is correct, it is better not to get involved.

[AsheDina]

I look at it this way, IT WILL SAVE LIVES. I REFUSE to be ranked in with these Erav-rav TRAITORS to G-d and everything holy and good. It IS an absolute mitzvah to rebuke this evil behavior!

[muman613]

12. Speaking Lashon Hara to Gentiles

Furthermore, the prohibition of Lashon Hara applies when the speaker disparages the subject before a Jew; all the more severe is his transgression if he disparages the speaker before gentiles.

By speaking to gentiles he disgraces the honor of Israel and defames the honor of Heaven. Further, he causes his fellow great harm, for if the speaker were to tell another Jew, at least the Jew would not conclude immediately that the information was true. However, if he speaks to a gentile, and tells him that the subject is a cheat, a swindler, or something similarly negative, the gentile will believe it immediately and publicize it, and the subject will be harmed and aggrieved.

So certainly if one speaks Lashon Hara about a fellow Jew to an audience of non-Jews, his sin is too great to bear (cf. Gen. 4:13), for he enters into the class of "malshinim" (those who slander their fellow Jews to the anti-Semitic government). His judgement is therefore akin to an apikores (heretic) and the disbelievers in Torah [because a "malshin" informs the government of hateful qualities of the Jews in order to prevent them from observing the Torah], when the dead are reawakened, he will be given permanent dwelling in Gehinom, as discussed in Tractate Rosh HaShanah. Therefore every Jew must take great care to guard himself from this.

One who violates this and slanders a Jew before gentiles flagrantly rebels against Torat Moshe Rabbeinu (the Torah which Moses taught us), as is discussed in the Shulchan Aruch, Choshen Mishpat 26.

[muman613]

I look at it this way, IT WILL SAVE LIVES. I REFUSE to be ranked in with these Erav-rav TRAITORS to G-d and everything holy and good. It IS an absolute mitzvah to rebuke this evil behavior!

And what do you accept as 'evidence' that these Jews are apikorisis? Just because they are liberal? Not all liberals are apikorisis...

[AsheDina]

I look at it this way, IT WILL SAVE LIVES. I REFUSE to be ranked in with these Erav-rav TRAITORS to G-d and everything holy and good. It IS an absolute mitzvah to rebuke this evil behavior!

And what do you accept as 'evidence' that these Jews are apikorisis? Just because they are liberal? Not all liberals are apikorisis...

Muman, as you well know, the Christians and gentile members here, criticize the political Bolsheviks, they have EVERY right, this is THEIR country. 

[muman613]

I look at it this way, IT WILL SAVE LIVES. I REFUSE to be ranked in with these Erav-rav TRAITORS to G-d and everything holy and good. It IS an absolute mitzvah to rebuke this evil behavior!

And what do you accept as 'evidence' that these Jews are apikorisis? Just because they are liberal? Not all liberals are apikorisis...

Muman, as you well know, the Christians and gentile members here, criticize the political Bolsheviks, they have EVERY right, this is THEIR country. 

Yes, I understand this, and I even contribute my rebuke against those Jews who are against the Torah, as I am commanded to do... But I do the rebuke with the intention of Love, and not in order to glorify myself, or to feel superior to those not on my level... We need to consider how we will accomplish the goal to turn the whole world toward Hashem, so that he can bring his peace to the world.

[arksis]

Dearest Paulette, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for standing up for ALL that deserve it. You are truly a gift from God.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

People like Bobby Fischer, Noam Chomsky, NK members, Tzipi Hitler, and Arik Sharon are enemies of the Jewish people and have turned into rodefs. They are karet, considered as bad as the worst Gentiles.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Bones, this is ongoing.  Christians and gentiles are losing their nation.  I have had enough.  I kept this in the honored wing section, but I really have had it.
IF people dont like the Christians here, LEAVE.

I don't think you should let this get to you. This is like 1% of our forum and most of the people who act like this have been banned (i.e. Tzvi) or have left on their own (i.e. kahaneloyalist). Don't let this one nut spoil your day.

Guys, there is a little more to it, he just didn't present it properly. To sum it up, there is quote from the mishna that all Jews have a portion in the World to Come. Therefore we learn, that ALL JEWS have it, even sinners. We also have the idea of teshuva which is huge, and a Jew should always be expected to do teshuvah. So I guesswhat Ron means is that since they could do teshuva, have a place in the world to come, AND were at Har Sinai, they deserve respect. Personally, I agree with the theory, but I have to admit that I have a very STRONG yestzer hara to go against BAD Jews.

So what if all Jews have a place in the world to come.   Firstly, that doesn't necessarily mean a good place depending on the person and his merits, and secondly, it is G-d that awards that, not me or any other person.   What is the PC craziness that a Jew cannot criticize a traitorous Jew coming from?   Is it Torah?    We used to put certain Jews to death.   The fact that Jews have a place in the world to come didn't stop us from doing that.  

And anyway, there is explanation on that mishna, which says that there are many qualifications to it.  It is every Jew except.... x y z etc....   So Jews who do x y z, it implies they dont' have a place.

As to a gentile criticizing self-hating Jews, if they do so within reason and in the proper manner, why is that not allowed?  With the right intentions I don't see a problem.     Admitted, that some do so without the proper intentions, but I don't think that is a problem on this forum.

And it can be dealt with on a case to case basis without diatribes and counter-diatribe threads against entire groups....

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I have never been for cursing Jews who are legitimately mixed-up in their lives and are just in a bad way. But the vast majority of prominent Jewish leftists have deliberately chosen this lifestyle and deeply and truly feel sorry for Muzzies and other Hitlerites.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I honestly would say that in most cases on this forum that I have seen, the non Jewish members who trash Jewish traitors like George soros have done a good job with that, and did not seem to be doing so with bad intentions.   There were one or two instances where I took issue, and so I took it up with the individual (they seemed to blame leftist Jews for things that weren't even possibly connected, they excessively scapegoated, etc).   So I think that person heard me out and toned it down a bit.   Otherwise I like what I see in this forum.    If there is a problem with a given post, I say state the objection to the individual.   Otherwise let's limit the blanket condemnations or ascribing whatever motives to different subgroups in the forum.  Not all of us are the same here.    There are subsets within subsets and we are still all individuals in all of them.


 To all the Muzzie terrorists yemach shemam vezichram.   See, I cursed evil gentiles.   And sometimes I see that gentiles here bash the enemies of the Jewish people like peace now.   Great, we are reciprocal.

[Rubystars]

All enemies of the United States, foreign and domestic, get my rebuke. I don't care what their religious or ethnic background is. I respect the Jewish people as a people and a blessed nation, but individuals are another matter entirely.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

To all the Muzzie terrorists yemach shemam vezichram.   See, I cursed evil gentiles.   And sometimes I see that gentiles here bash the enemies of the Jewish people like peace now.   Great, we are reciprocal.

Yes. I do think it goes one step farther than that though. Most people at JTF realize that Moosie terrorists are only able to get away with what they do because self-hating traitor Jewish leaders allow them to get away with it. So, I would say that SHJs are even more dangerous, deadly, and morally culpable than Islamic animals are. Some camelbanger who grew up in a goat-dung hut in the middle of the desert getting raped every Friday at noon by the local imam is a lot like a base wild animal. An educated self-hating Jewish Nazi like Tzipwhora Hitler or Shimon Peresite knows the truth about Islam objectively and instead chooses to identify with it. My guess would be that the hellfire for the Erev Rav Jews is hotter than the hellfire for stupid, ignorant, primitive Nazis.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

Correction:

All Jews have a place in the World to Come but they must do what is required in order to claim that place. There are certain sins which prevent Jews from entering the next world, the world of eternal life.

Certainly the Jewish traitors and informers that we pray against three times a day will not have a place in the world to come.

[Christian Zionist]

We have listen to the Biblical prophecies.  Isaiah clearly prophesied that gentiles will play an active part in restoring Israel

Isaiah 14:1 & 2

The LORD will have compassion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Aliens will join them and unite with the house of Jacob.

Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And the house of Israel will possess the nations as menservants and maidservants in the LORD's land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors

Isaiah 49:22
This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "See, I will beckon to the Gentiles, I will lift up my banner to the peoples; they will bring your sons in their arms and carry your daughters on their shoulders.


I think those who left the forum because of their perception that JTF is tolerating Christians did not understand Zionism correctly.

According to Isaiah's prophecies centuries ago gentiles will also participate in the end time Zionist movement.