JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chaim Ben Pesach on June 11, 2010, 11:16:38 AM
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בס''ד
Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels proposes that Republicans should no longer be pro-life or against homosexual "marriage". Daniels says Republicans should only be concerned with economic issues.
Former Governor Mike Huckabee of Arkansas has criticized Daniels for proposing this. Huckabee insists that Republicans must work to end abortion and to preserve traditional marriage.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/38419.html
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Chaim, interesting I was planning on asking your opinion on an upcoming " Ask JTF" program about Mitch Daniels, much like I have already with a number of other potential 2012 Republican Presidential candidates. This article basically answering my question about Daniels. He's now far down on the list of my preferred choices. I'm glad to see that Mike Huckabee is taking a strong stand on these extremely important social issues, that can't be compromised.
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I would give up homosexual marriage as an issue, but not abortion. Economic conservatism is extremely important for America's long term survival. If America's economy collapses, everything else will mean nothing because the country will fall apart. America is on that road right now. As a Canadian, I don't want to have to pick up a broken America nor see the result of a total collapse.
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thunderbolt, I respect your concerns. I've been Canada more than the vast majority of people born in the U.S. and have met many great people on my trips. The Canadian Rockies and Newfoundland are especially places that I enjoyed my visits. One pet peeve of mine over the years is VERY little is taught about Canada in American public schools. Basically, with the exception of a week or two of learning about Canada in the 5th grade, I was never taught anything about Canada during my years in public schools. I learned everything on my own, including on the trips I took.
My concern is if the U.S. doesn't eliminate Homosexual marriage and civil unions, the country is at great risk to be a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah. If that happened, no economic recovery plan would matter. Canada would certainly feel the adverse affects if such a scenario would occur.
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I would give up homosexual marriage as an issue, but not abortion. Economic conservatism is extremely important for America's long term survival. If America's economy collapses, everything else will mean nothing because the country will fall apart. America is on that road right now. As a Canadian, I don't want to have to pick up a broken America nor see the result of a total collapse.
בס''ד
If America allows homosexual marriage, G-d will destroy this once great nation. That is why I am pleased that on this issue, Governor Huckabee seems to understand the grave moral and spiritual implications.
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Chaim is right. Homosexuality is against God's will and he will destroy this country if it contiunes to happen.
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Canada has allowed homosexual "marriages" and we're doing far better nowadays than the US. I think there's a disconnect between recognizing homosexual unions and the Biblical Sodom and Gamorrah. We're talking about nations that used homosexual rape as established practice. If you're that worried about homo marriage, you would NEED to have some kind of religious police make sure people don't get into homosexual relationships in the first place. That is, if its so important that it will bring about the destruction of a nation to even legitimize that behavior.
I don't agree at all with homosexual marriage and I do think its an abomination, but I don't think its anywhere on the level of abortion(legal murder of babies) and the future destruction of America's economy due to socialist economic principles and
Doomsday will not come from a foreign invader or attack. It will come if America doesn't wake up and stop spending insanely, give up socialism and pay down its debt. I don't think people realize how horrible it would be with a total collapse of the US economy and China, the muslims, etc owning whats left of the country.
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Chaim is right. Homosexuality is against G-d's will and he will destroy this country if it contiunes to happen.
If its this important then you need to delegitimize homosexual behavior in general, not just "gay marriage". I don't think anyone is willing to step up and do that, so in my opinion we need to focus on making America fiscally conservative so that it survives the next 20 years.
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I would give up homosexual marriage as an issue, but not abortion. Economic conservatism is extremely important for America's long term survival. If America's economy collapses, everything else will mean nothing because the country will fall apart. America is on that road right now. As a Canadian, I don't want to have to pick up a broken America nor see the result of a total collapse.
i would do the opposite.i would allow abortion but would make homosexuality a criminal offence.
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America cannot sanction Homosexual marriage... Recognizing such a forbidden relationship will be the undoing of America. Canda was never blessed like America was. Canada, as much as it is nice, has never been a world power like America has. Allowing these immoral relationships and pretending they are 'legal' is a big joke in the face of Hashem.
Please continue to vote against the homosexual agenda..
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America cannot sanction Homosexual marriage... Recognizing such a forbidden relationship will be the undoing of America. Canda was never blessed like America was. Canada, as much as it is nice, has never been a world power like America has. Allowing these immoral relationships and pretending they are 'legal' is a big joke in the face of Hashem.
Please continue to vote against the homosexual agenda..
We have the same line of thinking on this critical issue.
Regarding Canada, the substantial increase in the Muslim population could easily be an indicator that Canada is being punished as a result of the government allowing homosexual marriages. With the worst yet to come if the country stays on its current course. The more a government legitimizes homosexual marriages and civil unions, the more likely more people in the general population will go down this path.
For me, when making a decision on which candidates to support, the most important issues are core issues of the bible. I want people with strong bibical convictions as the elected officials. With that foundation, there's a good chance everything else will fall into place.
One other thought for now. I hope that people who are involved in homosexual behavior get help and are cured.
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It kills me that we already allow homosexuals to embrace and show their love in public, yet people are so focused on stopping them from getting a piece of paper. I hate to tell you, but God's not gonna come down and smite America over this. If it were gonna happen, he'd have done it already for the simple fact most Americans accept homosexuality already as an acceptable lifestyle.
America WILL kill itself if it doesn't pay down its debt, become fiscally responsible and reject the communist/socialist disease. Who do you think is buying American debt? Enemies of America.
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God did not write a book and pass it out to the Jewish people and say, "so what do you guys think? whats a keeper?"
Homosexuality is an abomination [Gods words not mine] and should not be sanctioned by the government in any facet. I think its sickening when alternative sexual lifestyles are displayed in television shows, or I see posters endorsing homosexuality around Los Angeles.
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It's already legitimized by the government. That's the point I'm trying to make.
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It's already legitimized by the government. That's the point I'm trying to make.
That is an error not to be endorsed.
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Thunderbolt, there is a fatal flaw in your argument.
G-d demands more from leaders. Not just leaders in humans, but leaders in nations. The United States, as the only Superpower, is expected more of by G-d. A country like Canada, who has never been a Great Britain or Soviet Union or United States of America has no sway over the world. Canada isn't in a leadership position like the United States is.
Because G-d demands more from leaders, if the US falters on this issue, the retaliation will be worse than for Canada.
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Canada has allowed homosexual "marriages" and we're doing far better nowadays than the US. I think there's a disconnect between recognizing homosexual unions and the Biblical Sodom and Gamorrah. We're talking about nations that used homosexual rape as established practice. If you're that worried about homo marriage, you would NEED to have some kind of religious police make sure people don't get into homosexual relationships in the first place. That is, if its so important that it will bring about the destruction of a nation to even legitimize that behavior.
I don't agree at all with homosexual marriage and I do think its an abomination, but I don't think its anywhere on the level of abortion(legal murder of babies) and the future destruction of America's economy due to socialist economic principles and
Doomsday will not come from a foreign invader or attack. It will come if America doesn't wake up and stop spending insanely, give up socialism and pay down its debt. I don't think people realize how horrible it would be with a total collapse of the US economy and China, the muslims, etc owning whats left of the country.
בס''ד
Canada will also face destruction for the evil and immoral policies that it has enacted.
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i would do the opposite.i would allow abortion but would make homosexuality a criminal offence.
You are sick
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i would do the opposite.i would allow abortion but would make homosexuality a criminal offence.
You are sick
and what make you think so? and i also think that chaim told you to step aside and stop feuding with me in the ask jtf program.
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i would do the opposite.i would allow abortion but would make homosexuality a criminal offence.
You are sick
and what make you think so? and i also think that chaim told you to step aside and stop feuding with me in the ask jtf program.
Saying that you support killing an innocent baby. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?
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i would do the opposite.i would allow abortion but would make homosexuality a criminal offence.
You are sick
and what make you think so? and i also think that chaim told you to step aside and stop feuding with me in the ask jtf program.
Saying that you support killing an innocent baby. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?
did you ever heard about theright to use your body in any mean you want to.at the pregnancy stage the baby is still part of the woman body therefore she can choose to remove him at any time.
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i would do the opposite.i would allow abortion but would make homosexuality a criminal offence.
You are sick
and what make you think so? and i also think that chaim told you to step aside and stop feuding with me in the ask jtf program.
Saying that you support killing an innocent baby. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?
and 3 million more babies by his Nazi lovers.
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i would do the opposite.i would allow abortion but would make homosexuality a criminal offence.
You are sick
and what make you think so? and i also think that chaim told you to step aside and stop feuding with me in the ask jtf program.
Saying that you support killing an innocent baby. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?
did you ever heard about theright to use your body in any mean you want to.at the pregnancy stage the baby is still part of the woman body therefore she can choose to remove him at any time.
He's already a living entity and undoubtly by "removing" him she destroys his chance to live as a complete human being.
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i would do the opposite.i would allow abortion but would make homosexuality a criminal offence.
You are sick
and what make you think so? and i also think that chaim told you to step aside and stop feuding with me in the ask jtf program.
Saying that you support killing an innocent baby. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?
did you ever heard about theright to use your body in any mean you want to.at the pregnancy stage the baby is still part of the woman body therefore she can choose to remove him at any time.
Even more sick. At anytime? Even when the baby is almost fully grown?
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i would do the opposite.i would allow abortion but would make homosexuality a criminal offence.
You are sick
and what make you think so? and i also think that chaim told you to step aside and stop feuding with me in the ask jtf program.
Saying that you support killing an innocent baby. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?
did you ever heard about theright to use your body in any mean you want to.at the pregnancy stage the baby is still part of the woman body therefore she can choose to remove him at any time.
Even more sick. At anytime? Even when the baby is almost fully grown?
of course not.it is to dangerous to remove him after a certain amount of time and it is inhuman toward the unborn baby.
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ben i like you as you know, but i am against your position on abortion.
Have you seen the video of aborted babies, trust me, if you showed that video before the lady was going to have the abortion, i bet you 90 percent of the girls wouldnt go through it.
Did you know in the uk babies have survied and have grown up to be healthy at being born at 20 weeks? Abortions are murder. If you are into science then soon as the sperm meets the egg by scientific terms its a human being. Its meets the 4 phases criteria of life, and the full dna is formed for the rest of the babies body.
i have heard poor arguements such as rape. Do people forget its not that easy to get pregnant, and its pretty rare you are going to get raped. So you Cannot form a arguement on something that forms 0.000000000000000001 percent of abortions. Lets face it, its now a form of contraception.
I agree with mike huckabee on this very important issue, god bless him...
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ben i like you as you know, but i am against your position on abortion.
Have you seen the video of aborted babies, trust me, if you showed that video before the lady was going to have the abortion, i bet you 90 percent of the girls wouldnt go through it.
Did you know in the uk babies have survied and have grown up to be healthy at being born at 20 weeks? Abortions are murder. If you are into science then soon as the sperm meets the egg by scientific terms its a human being. Its meets the 4 phases criteria of life, and the full dna is formed for the rest of the babies body.
i have heard poor arguements such as rape. Do people forget its not that easy to get pregnant, and its pretty rare you are going to get raped. So you Cannot form a arguement on something that forms 0.000000000000000001 percent of abortions. Lets face it, its now a form of contraception.
I agree with mike huckabee on this very important issue, G-d bless him...
1) send me a link to the video.
2) there are around 5 weeks or so until the fetus is create from a bunch of cells.in this 5 weeks we are not murdering anyone but just removing cells
3) i hope it will prove to you that me and c4j are not the same person as already one of you think.
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The only times abortion should be legal are when the woman's life is jeopardized, or in the case of rape. I used to think that abortions should be legal because people who desire an abortion do SICK things, such as kicking a woman out of a speeding car, or making a woman drink bleach, to abort a fetus, but I now think that draconian-type prison terms involving hard labor should be implemented as a deterrent in lieu of legal abortions.
Good for [President?] Mike Huckabee.
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I think it's wrong to allow a woman to get an abortion in the case of rape because that baby is still a separate, innocent, and alive human being. It's not their fault that their father was evil and they shouldn't be punished for it with the ultimate penalty.
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I would give up homosexual marriage as an issue, but not abortion. Economic conservatism is extremely important for America's long term survival. If America's economy collapses, everything else will mean nothing because the country will fall apart. America is on that road right now. As a Canadian, I don't want to have to pick up a broken America nor see the result of a total collapse.
בס''ד
If America allows homosexual marriage, G-d will destroy this once great nation. That is why I am pleased that on this issue, Governor Huckabee seems to understand the grave moral and spiritual implications.
I am probably more accepting of homosexuals than most on this board but I see no reason to allow or turn away from the issue of gay marriage. I don't believe in persecuting homosexuals but I also don't believe in endorsing them.
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Canada has allowed homosexual "marriages" and we're doing far better nowadays than the US. I think there's a disconnect between recognizing homosexual unions and the Biblical Sodom and Gamorrah. We're talking about nations that used homosexual rape as established practice. If you're that worried about homo marriage, you would NEED to have some kind of religious police make sure people don't get into homosexual relationships in the first place. That is, if its so important that it will bring about the destruction of a nation to even legitimize that behavior.
I don't agree at all with homosexual marriage and I do think its an abomination, but I don't think its anywhere on the level of abortion(legal murder of babies) and the future destruction of America's economy due to socialist economic principles and
Doomsday will not come from a foreign invader or attack. It will come if America doesn't wake up and stop spending insanely, give up socialism and pay down its debt. I don't think people realize how horrible it would be with a total collapse of the US economy and China, the muslims, etc owning whats left of the country.
בס''ד
Canada will also face destruction for the evil and immoral policies that it has enacted.
You seem to feel allowing homosexual "marriage" is crossing some threshold that will trigger God's wrath. Why is it worse to allow homosexual "marriage" than it is to allow homosexuals to openly practice their lifestyle like we do now? Chaim, if homosexual is this much of an abomination to you, you surely think we should stamp it out, no? We live in an era where homosexuality is tolerated as an acceptable lifestyle. God obviously doesn't agree with homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle, yet we tolerate it every day. If you feel homosexual "marriage" will trigger God's wrath on a nation, you must support persecution of homosexuals to stop them from practicing their lifestyle.
Zionist Revolutionary, where in the Bible does it say God demands more from leading nations like the USA? I've never heard such a thing.
Ben, you should reconsider your stance on abortion unless you really believe babies in the womb are not human beings. And still, I think you should reconsider it.
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I think it's wrong to allow a woman to get an abortion in the case of rape because that baby is still a separate, innocent, and alive human being. It's not their fault that their father was evil and they shouldn't be punished for it with the ultimate penalty.
As much as I can sympathize a mother who gets raped, I would have to agree. The baby is innocent and has a chance to become a good, righteous person.
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If it is clear beyond any semblance of reason that the father raped the mother, society should make sure this creature never again has the opportunity to reproduce in the future. Also legally persecuting homosexuals will only result in further corruption and the creation of evil of people like Roy Cohn. Despite what anyone on this forum wants to believe, sexual attraction is not a voluntary conscious choice. Oppressing people who have this desire is not going to eradicate it, it will only lead to more suicides and disharmony.
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DanbenNoah when you say they should be executed are you talking about people who have those feelings and attractions (which are not always voluntary), or people who act on it?
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Ideally, homosexuals should be executed. That's the direction we should be pushing, not the opposite direction. To say that we should allow gay marriage just because homosexuality still happens is like saying we should allow marriage between adults and minors just because sexual activity takes place between these two. And marriage is not just a piece of paper, it signifies a holy union and the basis of a family, which is mocked by so-called "gay" marriage. America and Canada are already being punished and will continue to be punished for even allowing it (not just homosexuality, but adultery also), and they will be punished all the more if they actually sanction it.
That's not a fair comparison at all. Homosexuals are consenting adults while minors are universally considered in our society to be not intelligent/aware enough to give consent for such activities/relationships. You must agree that homosexuals, regardless of the immorality of their choice, are consenting to it knowingly.
An acknowledgement of a union/marriage by a nation has nothing to do with being holy, nor is it the basis for any family. Nations are artificial creations by man. There's a different between a country forcing a pastor, priest or rabbi to marry to homosexuals than having some public servant give them a paper saying they're married. I would agree if we forced religions to recognize the "marriages" given by the state it would be horrific, but what really is happening is far less damning, in my opinion. I'm a Christian. As long as the state doesn't force my religion to accept them, I could care less. What does it mean if two homos say they're getting married? It probably lessens the chance of them going out and spreading AIDS or other horrible disease through promiscuity. That's looking at it from a more logical standpoint of societal benefit.
There's far more pressing things going on like keeping western countries from going bankrupt.
I commend Dan Ben Noah for standing up for his point of view like that. If you're against gay "marriage" so strongly you must also be against homosexuality in general just as strongly even to the point where its punishable by death. Until people are willing to go that far, its hypocritical to use gay "marriage" as a watershed moral issue.
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If it is clear beyond any semblance of reason that the father raped the mother, society should make sure this creature never again has the opportunity to reproduce in the future. Also legally persecuting homosexuals will only result in further corruption and the creation of evil of people like Roy Cohn. Despite what anyone on this forum wants to believe, sexual attraction is not a voluntary conscious choice. Oppressing people who have this desire is not going to eradicate it, it will only lead to more suicides and disharmony.
I think even most JTFers don't wan't to pursue homosexuals but to contain out of the public life. What is the meaning of same-sex marriage ? The people who campaign in its favor usually present it as a matter of civil rights but they neglect to mention the economical and sociological impact. It goes far beyond the question of whether such couples deserve the ceremonial recognition.
I personally am against it because I think society benefits from normal couples who produce children- in the usual and most economic way. It is the interest of our societies to support and encourage the institution of traditional marriage. Whereas the types of alternative families like single mothers, same sex, and whatever are an economical burden, and thus shouldn't be supported financially or otherwise.
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Danbennoah, you push for whatever you want, freedom of speech and all, but you sound like the vanguard of Islam, strike that, Wahabiism
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Well you could use other comparisons like marriage between siblings or polygamy. These behaviors are illegal even though it involves consenting adults. But I think it is still a fair comparison because the issue is morality of society and not the age of consent, which some people might say the age of consent should be pushed younger.
And yes, a nation is not righteous if they sanction evil. Man creates a government, G-d judges it. Also, allowing one thing leads straight to another. For example, homosexuality is allowed now between consenting adults. Now they want it to be sanctioned by marriage. Soon they will be forcing religions to accept it, there are already advocates of hate crime legislation to make it against the law for religions to condemn homosexuality. This is no different than shaaria creep, it's only the religious doctrine of atheists that we're being forced to accept as opposed to that of Muslims.
Same for polygamy and sibling/relative marriages. As long as they don't force my church to accept/condone it, I could care less. It's up to the nation to decide what it wants to outlaw. Again, if the real issue is legislating morality according to the Bible, then it is hypocritical to oppose gay "marriage" while not also promoting actions to eliminate homosexuality altogether.
Our nations have already sanctioned homosexuality by allowing it to be practiced in the open. It's an acceptable lifestyle. Even if you ask religious people who are against it they'll say something like "As long as they keep to themselves." What's the difference if we wink/nod at homosexuals now or give them a piece of paper saying they're a couple? G-d could give a drek whether or not our sanctioning is in the form of a piece of paper.
The point you make about the slippery slope is a valid one. I do believe some of that does exist, and we will have to face it when it happens. I DO think though that at the moment we have more pressing and important matters like, as I've said, stopping western nations from going bankrupt thanks to socialist economic policies and impossible debt. From my point of view, that's far more important than stopping gay "marriage" from passing.
1000 posts wow
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I think it's wrong to allow a woman to get an abortion in the case of rape because that baby is still a separate, innocent, and alive human being. It's not their fault that their father was evil and they shouldn't be punished for it with the ultimate penalty.
I'm in agreement. While I would totally support the mother of the baby if she wanted to give the baby up to an adoption agency, the baby should have the opportunity to live. There's a married couple out their that would love to welcome the baby into their family.
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and 3 million more babies by his Nazi lovers.
This individual is never going to have children, because he is never going to be intimate with a woman. :laugh:
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Side topic--I hate the faggots as much as anyone else here, but I don't quite buy it that it is the very worst of sins. I don't see how it is worse than adultery or sleeping around in general. Adultery is also punishable by death. The latter two things (esp. regular old fornication) are much more common than homosexuality and I think G-d hates them just as much.
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Side topic--I hate the faggots as much as anyone else here, but I don't quite buy it that it is the very worst of sins. I don't see how it is worse than adultery or sleeping around in general. Adultery is also punishable by death. The latter two things (esp. regular old fornication) are much more common than homosexuality and I think G-d hates them just as much.
Thats fine with me...
Lets bring back the adultery laws...
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Ideally, homosexuals should be executed. That's the direction we should be pushing, not the opposite direction. To say that we should allow gay marriage just because homosexuality still happens is like saying we should allow marriage between adults and minors just because sexual activity takes place between these two. And marriage is not just a piece of paper, it signifies a holy union and the basis of a family, which is mocked by so-called "gay" marriage. America and Canada are already being punished and will continue to be punished for even allowing it (not just homosexuality, but adultery also), and they will be punished all the more if they actually sanction it.
executed? :o
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Ideally, homosexuals should be executed. That's the direction we should be pushing, not the opposite direction. To say that we should allow gay marriage just because homosexuality still happens is like saying we should allow marriage between adults and minors just because sexual activity takes place between these two. And marriage is not just a piece of paper, it signifies a holy union and the basis of a family, which is mocked by so-called "gay" marriage. America and Canada are already being punished and will continue to be punished for even allowing it (not just homosexuality, but adultery also), and they will be punished all the more if they actually sanction it.
executed? :o
:::D Execution is such a messy business ..... Can't we just get them to go back into the closet? The problem with executions is that after awhile it becomes a run of the mill business and their is no telling who the big mockers will want to bump off next when they run out of homosexuals. If they start on the people who also practice adultery.... half of todays population may end up in the cemetery.
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I would give up homosexual marriage as an issue, but not abortion. Economic conservatism is extremely important for America's long term survival. If America's economy collapses, everything else will mean nothing because the country will fall apart. America is on that road right now. As a Canadian, I don't want to have to pick up a broken America nor see the result of a total collapse.
בס''ד
If America allows homosexual marriage, G-d will destroy this once great nation. That is why I am pleased that on this issue, Governor Huckabee seems to understand the grave moral and spiritual implications.
While I would not completely give up homosexual marriage as an issue, I do agree with Thunderbolt to an extent.
If we concentrate more on the economic battlefront than the sodomy battlefront, we can set the economic policy so homosexual relationships are very difficult. For example, we can pull money from all AIDS research and educate people that if they do the wrong thing, there will be consequences to their actions.
I would like to see same sex marriages used as a way to register homosexuals, rather than using it to give them privileges with no responsibilities. Health insurance companies should be able to use this information to calculate risk.
While homosexual relationships involves people's conscience decision to do the wrong thing, it is at least the choice between both parties. In the case of abortion, it is only the choice of one, plus murder is involved.
While an STD is a fair punishment for homosexual intercourse, the death penalty is more suited for someone who murders(their own child of all people). We need to protect the unborn. Of course we need to prevent both sins if we are in a position of power to.
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and 3 million more babies by his Nazi lovers.
This individual is never going to have children, because he is never going to be intimate with a woman. :laugh:
actually many women wanted to date me.i refused them beacuse i want to occupay myself in study instead of girls and romance.
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It's already legitimized by the government. That's the point I'm trying to make.
The governments are evil and we should never compromise and be unrelenting when it comes down to accepting or promoting evil behavior. When the govt looks away from Gd, then bad things happen.
Secondly, while this generation is all fine with homosexuality and stuff, what will come of the next generation? Accepting of pedophilia, beastiality, Gd forbid?
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Abortion is only permitted when the mother is going to die giving birth. Not when she's pregnant and mother and child is healthy...Your opinion is very wrong...
i would do the opposite.i would allow abortion but would make homosexuality a criminal offence.
You are sick
and what make you think so? and i also think that chaim told you to step aside and stop feuding with me in the ask jtf program.
Saying that you support killing an innocent baby. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?
did you ever heard about theright to use your body in any mean you want to.at the pregnancy stage the baby is still part of the woman body therefore she can choose to remove him at any time.
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C4J: in regards to rape...I believe that after a woman is raped she should go straight to take "Plan B" which is a hormone that will prevent fertilization...Not wait and see if she gets pregnant.
ben i like you as you know, but i am against your position on abortion.
Have you seen the video of aborted babies, trust me, if you showed that video before the lady was going to have the abortion, i bet you 90 percent of the girls wouldnt go through it.
Did you know in the uk babies have survied and have grown up to be healthy at being born at 20 weeks? Abortions are murder. If you are into science then soon as the sperm meets the egg by scientific terms its a human being. Its meets the 4 phases criteria of life, and the full dna is formed for the rest of the babies body.
i have heard poor arguements such as rape. Do people forget its not that easy to get pregnant, and its pretty rare you are going to get raped. So you Cannot form a arguement on something that forms 0.000000000000000001 percent of abortions. Lets face it, its now a form of contraception.
I agree with mike huckabee on this very important issue, G-d bless him...
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If it is clear beyond any semblance of reason that the father raped the mother, society should make sure this creature never again has the opportunity to reproduce in the future. Also legally persecuting homosexuals will only result in further corruption and the creation of evil of people like Roy Cohn. Despite what anyone on this forum wants to believe, sexual attraction is not a voluntary conscious choice. Oppressing people who have this desire is not going to eradicate it, it will only lead to more suicides and disharmony.
JTFe2 I think you're right. Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted. They should be encouraged to control their behavior. Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.
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Side topic--I hate the faggots as much as anyone else here, but I don't quite buy it that it is the very worst of sins. I don't see how it is worse than adultery or sleeping around in general. Adultery is also punishable by death. The latter two things (esp. regular old fornication) are much more common than homosexuality and I think G-d hates them just as much.
Excellent point, DBF.
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If it is clear beyond any semblance of reason that the father raped the mother, society should make sure this creature never again has the opportunity to reproduce in the future. Also legally persecuting homosexuals will only result in further corruption and the creation of evil of people like Roy Cohn. Despite what anyone on this forum wants to believe, sexual attraction is not a voluntary conscious choice. Oppressing people who have this desire is not going to eradicate it, it will only lead to more suicides and disharmony.
JTFe2 I think you're right. Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted. They should be encouraged to control their behavior. Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.
Exactly.
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JTFe2 I think you're right. Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted. They should be encouraged to control their behavior.
True.
Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.
How is that a "natural inclination"?
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C4J: in regards to rape...I believe that after a woman is raped she should go straight to take "Plan B" which is a hormone that will prevent fertilization...Not wait and see if she gets pregnant.
ben i like you as you know, but i am against your position on abortion.
Have you seen the video of aborted babies, trust me, if you showed that video before the lady was going to have the abortion, i bet you 90 percent of the girls wouldnt go through it.
Did you know in the uk babies have survied and have grown up to be healthy at being born at 20 weeks? Abortions are murder. If you are into science then soon as the sperm meets the egg by scientific terms its a human being. Its meets the 4 phases criteria of life, and the full dna is formed for the rest of the babies body.
i have heard poor arguements such as rape. Do people forget its not that easy to get pregnant, and its pretty rare you are going to get raped. So you Cannot form a arguement on something that forms 0.000000000000000001 percent of abortions. Lets face it, its now a form of contraception.
I agree with mike huckabee on this very important issue, G-d bless him...
It prevents implantation.
The anti-dentite
:::D
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JTFe2 I think you're right. Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted. They should be encouraged to control their behavior.
True.
Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.
How is that a "natural inclination"?
Ron, I'm not sure with your experiences of knowing many homosexuals. Of course what I'm about to say might be very common or very uncommon. Some homosexuals are actually not that way by choice. The physical attraction they have with the same sex is like the way we feel about people of the opposite sex. Mentally and behaviorally, a gay man has no attraction to woman, but a strong attraction to a man like some women might have. I think there can be a biological thing that no one has yet figured out or have been able to pin point where it comes from and even how to "cure" it.
Now with this all being said, even if it were a biological inclination, it doesn't make it appropriate to do homosexual behavior and in our religion, very immoral.
And the same goes with straight men who have a natural and normal in the animal kingdom to biologically spread their sperm to every woman they see, but is also immoral to do that outside of marriage. And even though it is a straight man's biological inclination to have sex with lots of women, he is required in our religion to control it.
So for us, it is equal in a sense. A truly homosexual man who naturally feels the way he does should not do homosexual acts. To correct his way of thinking and attraction goes beyond what you or me can ever do. If a truly homosexual man wanted to marry a woman and be like a straight man, it is only in his power with Gd's help that he can do that. It's not impossible, but I'm sure extremely difficult.
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thanks for the correction JTFe2..
So it doesn't prevent fertilization?
C4J: in regards to rape...I believe that after a woman is raped she should go straight to take "Plan B" which is a hormone that will prevent fertilization...Not wait and see if she gets pregnant.
ben i like you as you know, but i am against your position on abortion.
Have you seen the video of aborted babies, trust me, if you showed that video before the lady was going to have the abortion, i bet you 90 percent of the girls wouldnt go through it.
Did you know in the uk babies have survied and have grown up to be healthy at being born at 20 weeks? Abortions are murder. If you are into science then soon as the sperm meets the egg by scientific terms its a human being. Its meets the 4 phases criteria of life, and the full dna is formed for the rest of the babies body.
i have heard poor arguements such as rape. Do people forget its not that easy to get pregnant, and its pretty rare you are going to get raped. So you Cannot form a arguement on something that forms 0.000000000000000001 percent of abortions. Lets face it, its now a form of contraception.
I agree with mike huckabee on this very important issue, G-d bless him...
It prevents implantation.
The anti-dentite
:::D
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It's already legitimized by the government. That's the point I'm trying to make.
The governments are evil and we should never compromise and be unrelenting when it comes down to accepting or promoting evil behavior. When the govt looks away from Gd, then bad things happen.
Secondly, while this generation is all fine with homosexuality and stuff, what will come of the next generation? Accepting of pedophilia, beastiality, Gd forbid?
You're talking in things that might happen. We might as a society become more accepting of bestiality/pedophila. What's a guarantee is that the country is going to implode on itself if it doesn't give up socialism and run its finances responsibly. There won't be a government left standing to dictate Bible morality if we don't fix the economy for good.
What's happening now in America is no different than what the Jews of Israel did by letting in the Romans. America is selling itself to evil nations like China and the arabs. That's who is buying all of America's debt.
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Dr Dan,
Thank you for your sensitive and accurate portrayal of this struggle.
As for my flirting with anti-dentitism lol, the egg has been fertilized, the additional hormones prevent the implantation of the several celled fetus, thus it is expelled. At this point no differentiation has occurred. Also to C4Js point a 20 week old fetus can ABSOLUTELY NOT survive outside the woman. These poor creatures cannot survive at 26 or 27 weeks without some later neurocognitive impairment. I have seen fetuses at 19-20 weeks out side of the womb in cases of miscarriage. It is awful, I would never recommend seeing something like that. There is no way to save those babies, none...saving them doesnt worl and they are tortured with endless blood draws, needle p r ic ks (wont let me spell this normally???) AND THEY DONT LIVE. Their lungs cannot support them even with artificial surfactant. I could go on but I wont
Incidently Dr. D, I love my dentist, he is the best, does a great job, lots of novicaine, I will miss the guy when I move..and funny!
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It's true that the economy and socialism should be a primary concern for this country. However, I believe that if we do what's good in Gd's "eyes", both of those things will go hand in hand. That's how much faith I have in Gd. This country lacks direction, patriotism, and religion and if we have these three things, the economy will get better and the socialism will become hated. People will wake up and want to improve everything. Because this country lacks morality, people are less inclined to believe in anything and therefore everything suffers.
It's already legitimized by the government. That's the point I'm trying to make.
The governments are evil and we should never compromise and be unrelenting when it comes down to accepting or promoting evil behavior. When the govt looks away from Gd, then bad things happen.
Secondly, while this generation is all fine with homosexuality and stuff, what will come of the next generation? Accepting of pedophilia, beastiality, Gd forbid?
You're talking in things that might happen. We might as a society become more accepting of bestiality/pedophila. What's a guarantee is that the country is going to implode on itself if it doesn't give up socialism and run its finances responsibly. There won't be a government left standing to dictate Bible morality if we don't fix the economy for good.
What's happening now in America is no different than what the Jews of Israel did by letting in the Romans. America is selling itself to evil nations like China and the arabs. That's who is buying all of America's debt.
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JTFe2
I also appreciate your cooperation in explaining to me something I understood from a limited perspective in regards to homosexuality. I never knew how to put morality together with homosexuality, but you helped me understand that it is a biological thing..and the morality part like any biological thing, is controlling that behavior..and it is no different than if it were a straight man who wanted to be with lots of women. What stinks for a homosexual man is that he is probably more likely to be destined to be alone than a straight man who can marry one woman and stay happy.
As far as Plan B, some orthodox rabbis, as far as I have heard have permitted its use in case of rape, Gd forbid. I think otherwise, while I hate to say this and believe it, but have to accept it, is that in Judaism, one cannot abort if she has been raped...it doesn't sound fair, I know, and I still struggle with this point of view.
Dr Dan,
Thank you for your sensitive and accurate portrayal of this struggle.
As for my flirting with anti-dentitism lol, the egg has been fertilized, the additional hormones prevent the implantation of the several celled fetus, thus it is expelled. At this point no differentiation has occurred. Also to C4Js point a 20 week old fetus can ABSOLUTELY NOT survive outside the woman. These poor creatures cannot survive at 26 or 27 weeks without some later neurocognitive impairment. I have seen fetuses at 19-20 weeks out side of the womb in cases of miscarriage. It is awful, I would never recommend seeing something like that. There is no way to save those babies, none...saving them doesnt worl and they are tortured with endless blood draws, needle p r ic ks (wont let me spell this normally???) AND THEY DONT LIVE. Their lungs cannot support them even with artificial surfactant. I could go on but I wont
Incidently Dr. D, I love my dentist, he is the best, does a great job, lots of novicaine, I will miss the guy when I move..and funny!
-
Plan B is not an abortion. I think it's acceptable. I've heard most fertilized eggs do not implant anyway. I think Plan B should be taken after someone is raped to prevent a pregnancy. However once a pregnancy has begun I don't think it's right to abort the growing baby at any stage of development.
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Plan B is not an abortion. I think it's acceptable. I've heard most fertilized eggs do not implant anyway. I think Plan B should be taken after someone is raped to prevent a pregnancy. However once a pregnancy has begun I don't think it's right to abort the growing baby at any stage of development.
even when this ''baby'' is nothing more than a few cells?
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Plan B is not an abortion. I think it's acceptable. I've heard most fertilized eggs do not implant anyway. I think Plan B should be taken after someone is raped to prevent a pregnancy. However once a pregnancy has begun I don't think it's right to abort the growing baby at any stage of development.
even when this ''baby'' is nothing more than a few cells?
Once the pregnancy has begun (the embryo has implanted) then it should not be terminated, except in very unique circumstances such as an ectopic pregnancy which would kill the mother. I also don't like the idea of Plan B completely either but I know I would use it if something like that happened to me so how could I condemn someone else for using it?
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Ben, even a few cells is life.
IN Judaism, abortion is only permitted with the mother is going to die during birth. Otherwise, it's not permitted.
Plan B is a medication that can be taken after rape to prevent the fetus from "implanting" into the womb. Some Orthodox allow its use if there is a rape.
Now, if it is an evil person or a savage, some people on JTF might think abortions shouldn't be outlawed for them. In fact, some of us might not mind a program to pay them to have abortions...
Why is this? Because abortions are permitted under Jewish law if the fetus is a "rodef". And if it is our enemies, some might argue that the fetus of that evil family from that evil nation is also a rodef.
Plan B is not an abortion. I think it's acceptable. I've heard most fertilized eggs do not implant anyway. I think Plan B should be taken after someone is raped to prevent a pregnancy. However once a pregnancy has begun I don't think it's right to abort the growing baby at any stage of development.
even when this ''baby'' is nothing more than a few cells?
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JTFe2 I think you're right. Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted. They should be encouraged to control their behavior.
True.
Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.
How is that a "natural inclination"?
Ron, I'm not sure with your experiences of knowing many homosexuals. Of course what I'm about to say might be very common or very uncommon. Some homosexuals are actually not that way by choice. The physical attraction they have with the same sex is like the way we feel about people of the opposite sex. Mentally and behaviorally, a gay man has no attraction to woman, but a strong attraction to a man like some women might have. I think there can be a biological thing that no one has yet figured out or have been able to pin point where it comes from and even how to "cure" it.
Now with this all being said, even if it were a biological inclination, it doesn't make it appropriate to do homosexual behavior and in our religion, very immoral.
And the same goes with straight men who have a natural and normal in the animal kingdom to biologically spread their sperm to every woman they see, but is also immoral to do that outside of marriage. And even though it is a straight man's biological inclination to have sex with lots of women, he is required in our religion to control it.
So for us, it is equal in a sense. A truly homosexual man who naturally feels the way he does should not do homosexual acts. To correct his way of thinking and attraction goes beyond what you or me can ever do. If a truly homosexual man wanted to marry a woman and be like a straight man, it is only in his power with Gd's help that he can do that. It's not impossible, but I'm sure extremely difficult.
Dan, homosexual inclination may not be a choice, but that doesn't mean its an inborn trait or biological. There are psychological issues at work here, but you didn't even mention them. Not that you would be able to say much about it if you did, because studies on how homosexuality comes to be from a psychological perspective are practically non-existent. Such a study on this would be immediately condemned by all the usual suspects (APA, homosexual groups, liberal groups, etc).
Sexual characteristics are not social constructs. A man and woman are separated by more than body parts. Brain chemicals, natural instinct, these attributes separate the sexes.
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There is another aspect of this. Americans overwhelmingly do NOT support redefining marriage. Even in Leftist California. if the GOP believes that the government should over rule the will of the people, than the GOP has lost its populist appeal, and it becomes just another elitist party that doesnt beleive that ordinary people should have a say.
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JTFe2 I think you're right. Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted. They should be encouraged to control their behavior.
True.
Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.
How is that a "natural inclination"?
Ron, I'm not sure with your experiences of knowing many homosexuals. Of course what I'm about to say might be very common or very uncommon. Some homosexuals are actually not that way by choice. The physical attraction they have with the same sex is like the way we feel about people of the opposite sex. Mentally and behaviorally, a gay man has no attraction to woman, but a strong attraction to a man like some women might have. I think there can be a biological thing that no one has yet figured out or have been able to pin point where it comes from and even how to "cure" it.
Now with this all being said, even if it were a biological inclination, it doesn't make it appropriate to do homosexual behavior and in our religion, very immoral.
And the same goes with straight men who have a natural and normal in the animal kingdom to biologically spread their sperm to every woman they see, but is also immoral to do that outside of marriage. And even though it is a straight man's biological inclination to have sex with lots of women, he is required in our religion to control it.
So for us, it is equal in a sense. A truly homosexual man who naturally feels the way he does should not do homosexual acts. To correct his way of thinking and attraction goes beyond what you or me can ever do. If a truly homosexual man wanted to marry a woman and be like a straight man, it is only in his power with Gd's help that he can do that. It's not impossible, but I'm sure extremely difficult.
Dan, homosexual inclination may not be a choice, but that doesn't mean its an inborn trait or biological. There are psychological issues at work here, but you didn't even mention them. Not that you would be able to say much about it if you did, because studies on how homosexuality comes to be from a psychological perspective are practically non-existent. Such a study on this would be immediately condemned by all the usual suspects (APA, homosexual groups, liberal groups, etc).
Sexual characteristics are not social constructs. A man and woman are separated by more than body parts. Brain chemicals, natural instinct, these attributes separate the sexes.
I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. I never said it was genetic nor inborn. I simply stated Biological. What I meant by biological was the chemicals or hormones or who knows that cause this to happen in SOME homosexuals. It's bizarre actually because I have spoken with a few homosexuals and the homosexual men feel attracted to men the same or very similar way women are attracted to men...It's something SOME of them can't help nor have a "choice" of being. It's easy for you and me to say, "Yes you have free will you have a choice." But the the only choice they have is to either act upon what's natural to them or to hold it back...and if they can hold it back and be good at it, then the choice can become thinking about it or not thinking about it...and once they don't think about it, can they be with woman and like it? I don't have any answers for these things. All I can say is that we should praise homosexuals who don't act upon their desires, embrace them, and help them go the right way if they can help themselves. The ones we should hate are the one who unabashadly act upon doing evil and being proud of it and encouraging everyone else it's ok.
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JTFe2 I think you're right. Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted. They should be encouraged to control their behavior.
True.
Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.
How is that a "natural inclination"?
Ron, I'm not sure with your experiences of knowing many homosexuals. Of course what I'm about to say might be very common or very uncommon. Some homosexuals are actually not that way by choice. The physical attraction they have with the same sex is like the way we feel about people of the opposite sex. Mentally and behaviorally, a gay man has no attraction to woman, but a strong attraction to a man like some women might have. I think there can be a biological thing that no one has yet figured out or have been able to pin point where it comes from and even how to "cure" it.
Now with this all being said, even if it were a biological inclination, it doesn't make it appropriate to do homosexual behavior and in our religion, very immoral.
And the same goes with straight men who have a natural and normal in the animal kingdom to biologically spread their sperm to every woman they see, but is also immoral to do that outside of marriage. And even though it is a straight man's biological inclination to have sex with lots of women, he is required in our religion to control it.
So for us, it is equal in a sense. A truly homosexual man who naturally feels the way he does should not do homosexual acts. To correct his way of thinking and attraction goes beyond what you or me can ever do. If a truly homosexual man wanted to marry a woman and be like a straight man, it is only in his power with Gd's help that he can do that. It's not impossible, but I'm sure extremely difficult.
Dan, homosexual inclination may not be a choice, but that doesn't mean its an inborn trait or biological. There are psychological issues at work here, but you didn't even mention them. Not that you would be able to say much about it if you did, because studies on how homosexuality comes to be from a psychological perspective are practically non-existent. Such a study on this would be immediately condemned by all the usual suspects (APA, homosexual groups, liberal groups, etc).
Sexual characteristics are not social constructs. A man and woman are separated by more than body parts. Brain chemicals, natural instinct, these attributes separate the sexes.
I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. I never said it was genetic nor inborn. I simply stated Biological. What I meant by biological was the chemicals or hormones or who knows that cause this to happen in SOME homosexuals. It's bizarre actually because I have spoken with a few homosexuals and the homosexual men feel attracted to men the same or very similar way women are attracted to men...It's something SOME of them can't help nor have a "choice" of being. It's easy for you and me to say, "Yes you have free will you have a choice." But the the only choice they have is to either act upon what's natural to them or to hold it back...and if they can hold it back and be good at it, then the choice can become thinking about it or not thinking about it...and once they don't think about it, can they be with woman and like it? I don't have any answers for these things. All I can say is that we should praise homosexuals who don't act upon their desires, embrace them, and help them go the right way if they can help themselves. The ones we should hate are the one who unabashadly act upon doing evil and being proud of it and encouraging everyone else it's ok.
To me i say, who cares!?!?!? Maybe its a mixture of nature versus nurture, Im not an expert on homosexuality, but regardless, that shouldnt justify re-defining marriage. Why must advocates focus on this?
What about Polygamy or intergenerational marriage? (Legal in a couple states). Maybe there is a 'nature' component to that as well, but who cares???? does that mean anything that we can redifine marriage to any type of union where there is a component of the attraction, that is not from our environment, upbringing? I just dont like this logic.
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Marriage is between one man and one woman and it is a holy thing. Anything else that isn't holy can't be marriage.