JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: christians4jews on January 30, 2011, 03:52:40 PM
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Obviously We all agree the guy was woeful, the lowest of the low.
But what religion do you think he believed in. I have always thought him as a atheist that admired islam, and only used christianity to help gain power in Germany. But as a christian, im not a unbiased commentator on this topic.
So i ask the great jews of this forum, hoenstly, from all the evidence we have on hitler, what faith do you think he believed in?
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I thought he was a Christian.
Here is what Wikipedia says on the topic {and I realize wikipedia is not the final source of knowledge, but it often is a good starting place}...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views
Public statements
In public statements, especially at the beginning of his rule, Hitler frequently spoke positively about the Christian of German culture, and his belief in the "Aryan" Christ. In a proclamation to the German Nation February 1, 1933 Hitler stated, "The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."[7]
Here is another interesting quote regarding Hitler and Christianity. "The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. Bolshevism practices a lie of the same nature, when it claims to bring liberty to men, whereas in reality it seeks only to enslave them. In the ancient world, the relations between men and gods were founded on an instinctive respect. It was a world enlightened by the idea of tolerance. Christianity was the first creed in the world to exterminate its adversaries in the name of love. Its keynote is intolerance. Without Christianity, we should not have had Islam..." - Adolf Hitler
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According to Hitler's chief architect Albert Speer, Hitler remained a formal member of the Catholic Church until his death, although it was Speer's opinion that "he had no real attachment to it."[11] According to biographer John Toland, Hitler was still "a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite his detestation of its hierarchy, he carried within himself its teaching that the Jew was the killer of G-d. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of G-d — so long as it was done impersonally, without cruelty."[12] However, Hitler's own words from Mein Kampf seem to conflict with the idea that his antisemitism was religiously motivated. From childhood onward, Hitler seems to have continued to reject antisemitism or anti-Judaism based on religious arguments like the deicide claim:
On islam:
Islamic and eastern religions
Among eastern religions, Hitler described religious leaders such as "Confucius, Buddha, and Mohammed" as providers of "spiritual sustenance".[58] In this context, Hitler's connection to Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, the Mufti of Jerusalem — which included asylum in 1941, the honorary rank of an SS Major, and a "respected racial genealogy" — has been interpreted more as a sign of respect than political expedience.[59] Hitler expressed admiration for the Muslim military tradition and directed Himmler to initiate Muslim SS Divisions as a matter of policy. According to Nazi-era Minister of Armaments and War Production Albert Speer, Hitler stated in private, "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"[60] According to Speer, when discussing with Hitler events which might have occurred had Islam absorbed Europe:
"Hitler said that the conquering Arabs, because of their racial inferiority, would in the long run have been unable to contend with the harsher climate and conditions of the country. They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamized Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire."[60]
Hitler's choice of the Swastika as the Nazis' main and official symbol, was linked to the belief in the Aryan cultural descent of the German people. They considered the early Aryans of India to be the prototypical white invaders and the sign as a symbol of the Aryan master race.[61] Thus, high caste Hindus such as Brahmins, were considered to be pure Aryan due to their genealogical connection to the ancient Aryans. However, despite the Roma's Indian origin, they were considered a threat to German racial hygiene because they were in fact, descended from Aryans, but were of poorer classes that had mingled with the various “inferior” races they encountered during their wanderings.
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He was a Christian by name just because part of his family was. He loved Nordic paganism, but just as a folk nationalistic tradition and he didn't believe in it either. I don't think he believed in Islam because he hated anything that sounded Semite. I believe he had some lunatic's personal belief according to what some undefined suprnatural power had chosen him to shape the world to fit his lunacy.
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He was a Christian by name just because part of his family was. He loved Nordic paganism, but just as a folk nationalistic tradition and he didn't believe in it either. I don't think he believed in Islam because he hated anything that sounded Semite. I believe he had some lunatic's personal belief according to what some undefined suprnatural power had chosen him to shape the world to fit his lunacy.
He was a member of the Catholic church until his death....
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Hitler certainly used the anitsemitism of the German Christian Martin Luther to assist his plan:
G-d, racism and anti-Semitism
To the extent he believed in a divinity, Hitler did not believe in a "remote, rationalist divinity" but in an "active deity,"[71] which he frequently referred to as "Creator" or "Providence". In Hitler's belief G-d created a world in which different races fought each other for survival as depicted by Arthur de Gobineau. The "Aryan race," supposedly the bearer of civilization, is allocated a special place:
What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and the reproduction of our race ... so that our people may mature for the fulfilment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe. ... Peoples that bastardize themselves, or let themselves be bastardized, sin against the will of eternal Providence.[71]
The Jews he viewed as enemies of all civilization and as materialistic, unspiritual beings, writing in Mein Kampf: "His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine." Hitler described his supposedly divine mandate for his anti-Semitism: "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."[72]
In his rhetoric Hitler also fed on the old accusation of Jewish Deicide. Because of this it has been speculated that Christian anti-Semitism influenced Hitler's ideas, especially such works as Martin Luther's essay On the Jews and Their Lies and the writings of Paul de Lagarde. Others disagree with this view.[73] In support of this view, Hitler biographer John Toland opines that Hitler "carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of G-d. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of G-d..." Nevertheless, in Mein Kampf Hitler writes of an upbringing in which no particular anti-Semitic prejudice prevailed.
According to Jewish, American historian Lucy Dawidowicz, Anti-Semitism has a long history within Christianity, and that the line of "anti-Semitic descent" from Luther to Hitler is "easy to draw." In her The War Against the Jews, 1933-1945, she writes that Luther and Hitler were obsessed by the "demonologized universe" inhabited by Jews. Dawidowicz states that the similarities between Luther's anti-Jewish writings and modern Anti-Semitism are no coincidence, because they derived from a common history of Judenhass, which can be traced to Haman's advice to Ahasuerus, although modern German anti-Semitism also has its roots in German nationalism.[74]
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He was a member of the Catholic church until his death....
Actually he was not a member of the church.
He was baptised as Catholic but he did not follow any of the churches teachings
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Actually he was not a member of the church.
He was baptised as Catholic but he did not follow any of the churches teachings
As you know you can call yourself a Catholic and not follow any church teachings when we look at Catholicism today. But today the Pope is OKing prostitution and condoms...
PS: Did the church ever excommunicate him? I don't think so...
Hitler and Catholic ritual
In his childhood, Hitler had admired the pomp of Catholic ritual and the hierarchical organisation of the clergy. Later, he drew on these elements, organizing his party along hierarchical lines and including liturgical forms into events or using phraseology taken from hymns.[75] Because of these liturgical elements, Hitler's Messiah-like status and the ideology's all-encompassing nature, the Nazi movement is sometimes termed a "political religion".[76]
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As you know you can call yourself a Catholic and not follow any church teachings when we look at Catholicism today. But today the Pope is OKing prostitution and condoms...
PS: Did the church ever excommunicate him? I don't think so...
People can claim to follow any religion what is your point?
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People can claim to follow any religion what is your point?
My point is that he was born a Catholic, was impressed with Catholicism, and while not subscribing to the absolute rituals of the religion, identified with it... That is my point...
My other point is that if he is still considered a Catholic by the church why did they not excommunicate him?
Here is the answer to the question "Why was hitler not excommunicated by the church?"
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080327141858AAgXrzB
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He was a member of the Catholic church until his death....
Just because he was fascinated by Catholic anti-Semitism of the time and he though he might be able to use the church for his own plan. But he did not believe in Christianity. He despised it because he found it to be too humanitarian. He wanted to revive Nordic paganism just because it was Aryan and Nordic ancient poetry speak of warriors, but probably he did not believe in pagan deities, and he may have also disliked pagan emphasis on love and Nature. Anyway, as a lunatic full of hate, he could easily switch from one stance to another.
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Just because he was fascinated by Catholic anti-Semitism of the time and he though he might be able to use the church for his own plan. But he did not believe in Christianity. He despised it because he found it to be too humanitarian. He wanted to revive Nordic paganism just because it was Aryan and Nordic ancient poetry speak of warriors, but probably he did not believe in pagan deities, and he may have also disliked pagan emphasis on love and Nature. Anyway, as a lunatic full of hate, he could easily switch from one stance to another.
I agree that his actions do not represent any sane belief system. I was just answering the question asked according to what I have learned. I also am researching the answers to these questions...
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He was a member of the Catholic church until his death....
As you know you can call yourself a Catholic and not follow any church teachings when we look at Catholicism today. But today the Pope is OKing prostitution and condoms...
PS: Did the church ever excommunicate him? I don't think so...
My point is that he was born a Catholic, was impressed with Catholicism, and while not subscribing to the absolute rituals of the religion, identified with it... That is my point...
My other point is that if he is still considered a Catholic by the church why did they not excommunicate him?
Here is the answer to the question "Why was hitler not excommunicated by the church?"
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080327141858AAgXrzB
Does miserableness ever take a holiday? That's all I want to know. I'm just saying.
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Does miserableness ever take a holiday? That's all I want to know. I'm just saying.
I am sorry BC3.... I do not want to say any more on this topic. The point is not to assign blame on any religion for Hitler... I am sure that there are reasons the church acted as it did... I will cease trying to answer this here...
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i am sure that he was neither Christian nor Pagan. Shitler, as a true socialist, was, most probably, an atheist.
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It is true Hitler was born a Catholic however he made it more then clear during his life he had little or no use for the RCC or any other organized religion... From most of what I have read the church feared Hitler.... Clergy inside Nazi occupied countries were constantly told to behave or face being taken off to the death camps... The Vatican really could not afford to become embroiled in a conflict with Nazi Germany since it would have taken Hitler nothing but a bit of bad press after the fact of taking the place over... Hitler wrote that it was all well and fine for the church to continue its operation during the war since he had bigger fish to fry however if Germany was victorious it was going to be a far different picture... If the church moved to excommunicate Hitler during that time it would have given him the excuse he needed to move against the RCC... Even the little the RCC did to help during the war would have went undone.
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I'm sure. But I don't think he was ever a Christian.
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He actually liked Islam and the Japanese religions
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1389073
I found this on IsraelForum.com.
I'm intrigued by what Hitlers views on the three traditions were,as were similarly those of Nietzsche and Goethe (especially on Islam), they all seem to have a certain respect and admiration for moslem theology and philosophy. I have a question below.
THE BOOK OF ARYAN WISDOM AND LAWS.
Christian belief, to be true, to be German, must be purged of all remnants of Jewish thought.
The Mosaic religion is really nothing but a doctrine for the preservation of the Jewish race.
The satanic Jew has been the divider of mankind; and has deliberately brought about religious division and chaos.
The following material has been translated from a pamphlet found in the NSDAP Hauptarchiv. Its German title was Der Bolschewismus von Moses bis Lenin: Zwiegespräch zwischen Adolf Hitler und mir, and it was originally published in Munich in March 1924 from unfinished notes on which Dietrich Eckart had been working in the autumn of 1923.
Reach for The Tanach, a brief flipping of pages, and -- "There," he cried, "the recipe from which the Jews always brew their hellish broth!
Hitler's Table Talk is a series of informal, private conversations among Hitler and his closest associates, as recorded by Martin Bormann. The ex tempore remarks excerpted above are from July 1941 to June 1942, most late at night or in early morning.
The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. Bolshevism practices a lie of the same nature, when it claims to bring liberty to men, whereas in reality it seeks only to enslave them. In the ancient world, the relations between men and gods were founded on an instinctive respect. It was a world enlightened by the idea of tolerance. Christianity was the first creed in the world to exterminate its adversaries in the name of love. Its keynote is intolerance.
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of human failure.
It is a great pity that this tendency towards religious thought can find no better outlet than the Jewish pettifoggery of The Tanach, for a religious Folk who, in the solitude of winter, continually seek ultimate light on their religious problems with the assistance of the Bible, must eventually become spiritually deformed. The wretched Folk strive to extract truths from these Jewish chicaneries, where in fact no truths exist. As a result they become embedded in some rut of thought or other and, unless they possess an exceptionally commonsense mind, degenerate into religious maniacs.
It is deplorable that the Bible should have been translated into German, and that the whole of the German Folk should have thus become exposed to the whole of this Jewish mumbo jumbo. So long as the wisdom, particularly of The Tanach, remained exclusively in the Latin of the Church, there was little danger that sensible people would become the victims of illusions as the result of studying the Bible. But since the Bible became common property, a whole heap of people have found opened to them lines of religious thought which — particularly in conjunction with the German characteristic of persistent and somewhat melancholy meditation — as often as not turned them into religious maniacs. When one recollects further that the Catholic Church has elevated to the status of Saints a whole number of madmen, one realizes why movements such as that of the Flagellants came inevitably into existence in the Middle Ages in Germany.
I can imagine people being enthusiastic about the paradise of Mohammed, but as for the insipid paradise of the Christians! In your lifetime, you used to hear the music of Richard Wagner. After your death, it will be nothing but hallelujahs, the waving of palms, children of an age for the feeding bottle, and hoary old men. The man of the isles pays homage to the forces of nature. But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A ****** with his taboos is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in transubstantiation.
The instructions of a hygienic nature that most religions gave, contributed to the foundation of organized communities. The precepts ordering people to wash, to avoid certain drinks, to fast at appointed dates, to take exercise, to rise with the sun, to climb to the top of the minaret — all these were obligations invented by intelligent people. The exhortation to fight courageously is also self-explanatory. Observe, by the way, that, as a corollary, the Moslem was promised a paradise peopled with sensual girls, where wine flowed in streams — a real earthly paradise. The Christians, on the other hand, declare themselves satisfied if after their death they are allowed to sing hallelujahs! All these elements contributed to form human communities. It is to these private customs that Folks owe their present characters.
ISLAM, A RELIGION COMPATIBLE FOR THE GERMANIC PEOPLES
His conversations on a number of subjects were recorded by his closest confidants. One of these was Albert Speer, chief architect and Reich Minister of Armanents and Munitions, who quoted Hitler's regret the Germans accepted Christianity rather than religions which would have been more compatible to them:
"Hitler usually concluded this historical speculation by remarking: 'You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?'" (11)
Yet another aspect which Hitler praised was the fact that Muslims preserved ancient texts and passed on knowledge which otherwise would have been lost. He noted the remarkable achievements of Islamic civilization in all fields. During a meeting at the Wehrwolf on the afternoon of 27th August 1942, the Führer said(13):
"It is only with the Roman empire where one can say that culture was a factor under the government. The government of the Arabs in Spain too was infinitely distinguished: Many scientists, thinkers, astronomers, mathematicians, one of the most humane times, at the same time as a colossal knighthood. When, later, Christianity came there, then one can say: barbarians. The knighthood that the Castilians have is actually one of Arab heritage. If Charles Martel had not overcome in Poitiers: since the Jewish world already seized us - that Christianity is something well of insipid - we would have better received Mohammedanism, those doctrines of the reward of heroism-: combatants alone have the seventh heaven! With that the Germans would have conquered the world. It is only by Christianity that we have been held distant." (14)
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He actually liked Islam and the Japanese religions http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1389073
I found this on IsraelForum.com.
I'm intrigued by what Hitlers views on the three traditions were,as were similarly those of Nietzsche and Goethe (especially on Islam), they all seem to have a certain respect and admiration for moslem theology and philosophy. I have a question below.
THE BOOK OF ARYAN WISDOM AND LAWS.
Christian belief, to be true, to be German, must be purged of all remnants of Jewish thought.
The Mosaic religion is really nothing but a doctrine for the preservation of the Jewish race.
The satanic Jew has been the divider of mankind; and has deliberately brought about religious division and chaos.
The following material has been translated from a pamphlet found in the NSDAP Hauptarchiv. Its German title was Der Bolschewismus von Moses bis Lenin: Zwiegespräch zwischen Adolf Hitler und mir, and it was originally published in Munich in March 1924 from unfinished notes on which Dietrich Eckart had been working in the autumn of 1923.
Reach for The Tanach, a brief flipping of pages, and -- "There," he cried, "the recipe from which the Jews always brew their hellish broth!
Hitler's Table Talk is a series of informal, private conversations among Hitler and his closest associates, as recorded by Martin Bormann. The ex tempore remarks excerpted above are from July 1941 to June 1942, most late at night or in early morning.
The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. Bolshevism practices a lie of the same nature, when it claims to bring liberty to men, whereas in reality it seeks only to enslave them. In the ancient world, the relations between men and gods were founded on an instinctive respect. It was a world enlightened by the idea of tolerance. Christianity was the first creed in the world to exterminate its adversaries in the name of love. Its keynote is intolerance.
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of human failure.
It is a great pity that this tendency towards religious thought can find no better outlet than the Jewish pettifoggery of The Tanach, for a religious Folk who, in the solitude of winter, continually seek ultimate light on their religious problems with the assistance of the Bible, must eventually become spiritually deformed. The wretched Folk strive to extract truths from these Jewish chicaneries, where in fact no truths exist. As a result they become embedded in some rut of thought or other and, unless they possess an exceptionally commonsense mind, degenerate into religious maniacs.
It is deplorable that the Bible should have been translated into German, and that the whole of the German Folk should have thus become exposed to the whole of this Jewish mumbo jumbo. So long as the wisdom, particularly of The Tanach, remained exclusively in the Latin of the Church, there was little danger that sensible people would become the victims of illusions as the result of studying the Bible. But since the Bible became common property, a whole heap of people have found opened to them lines of religious thought which — particularly in conjunction with the German characteristic of persistent and somewhat melancholy meditation — as often as not turned them into religious maniacs. When one recollects further that the Catholic Church has elevated to the status of Saints a whole number of madmen, one realizes why movements such as that of the Flagellants came inevitably into existence in the Middle Ages in Germany.
I can imagine people being enthusiastic about the paradise of Mohammed, but as for the insipid paradise of the Christians! In your lifetime, you used to hear the music of Richard Wagner. After your death, it will be nothing but hallelujahs, the waving of palms, children of an age for the feeding bottle, and hoary old men. The man of the isles pays homage to the forces of nature. But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A ****** with his taboos is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in transubstantiation.
The instructions of a hygienic nature that most religions gave, contributed to the foundation of organized communities. The precepts ordering people to wash, to avoid certain drinks, to fast at appointed dates, to take exercise, to rise with the sun, to climb to the top of the minaret — all these were obligations invented by intelligent people. The exhortation to fight courageously is also self-explanatory. Observe, by the way, that, as a corollary, the Moslem was promised a paradise peopled with sensual girls, where wine flowed in streams — a real earthly paradise. The Christians, on the other hand, declare themselves satisfied if after their death they are allowed to sing hallelujahs! All these elements contributed to form human communities. It is to these private customs that Folks owe their present characters.
ISLAM, A RELIGION COMPATIBLE FOR THE GERMANIC PEOPLES
His conversations on a number of subjects were recorded by his closest confidants. One of these was Albert Speer, chief architect and Reich Minister of Armanents and Munitions, who quoted Hitler's regret the Germans accepted Christianity rather than religions which would have been more compatible to them:
"Hitler usually concluded this historical speculation by remarking: 'You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?'" (11)
Yet another aspect which Hitler praised was the fact that Muslims preserved ancient texts and passed on knowledge which otherwise would have been lost. He noted the remarkable achievements of Islamic civilization in all fields. During a meeting at the Wehrwolf on the afternoon of 27th August 1942, the Führer said(13):
"It is only with the Roman empire where one can say that culture was a factor under the government. The government of the Arabs in Spain too was infinitely distinguished: Many scientists, thinkers, astronomers, mathematicians, one of the most humane times, at the same time as a colossal knighthood. When, later, Christianity came there, then one can say: barbarians. The knighthood that the Castilians have is actually one of Arab heritage. If Charles Martel had not overcome in Poitiers: since the Jewish world already seized us - that Christianity is something well of insipid - we would have better received Mohammedanism, those doctrines of the reward of heroism-: combatants alone have the seventh heaven! With that the Germans would have conquered the world. It is only by Christianity that we have been held distant." (14)
I know he was interested in Islam didn't knew he was interested in Japanese religions.
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He was a little bit Christian. That's like being a little bit dead.
He also admired islam some.
Don't blame the Christians for what he did. He also wished he had made his people muslims instead of Christians. He had buyer's remorse.
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Hitler believed in G-d? I don't see how that is possible.
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Hitler believed in G-d? I don't see how that is possible.
Hitler believed he was G-d and expected everyone under his control to go along with it...
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My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... [/b] When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922
We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people.
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928,
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Hitler believed first and foremost in himself. And he clearly believed in destiny. I don't think he believed in any religion but he was of course willing to use and twist religion to his cause.
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My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, G-d's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... [/b] When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922
We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people.
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928,
I guess if I had my eye on the seat of leadership in Germany as Hitler did during them years I would also make speeches containing my support for Christian Values.... Germany for all its faults was and still is a predominantly Christian country.. Anyone seeking office back in the 1920's had better have made their position of Christian support known even if they were lying through their teeth... Now tell me that anyone here could find it hard for Hitler to tell people what they wanted to hear in order to pave his way to power... Show me some speeches that have the same zest for Christianity after he came into power.
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Dictators use religion to suit their own purposes. The modern neo-nazi types often say that Christianity is a "Jew religion" and follow things like Asatru. That tells me something about the Nazi mindset.
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He was born a christian, but he and the Nazi idologues main goal was to REPLACE christianity with a pagan ideology without a Jewish savior.
Towards the end of the Reich, they started to outlaw the use of Christian symbols. They outlawed the Christian cross and replaced it with the Toten-Rune on Tombstones
(http://www.history.jp/wehrmacht/027-07.jpg)
They attempted to ban Christmas, but the Christians resisted too much, so they just started to replace all the images and symbols with NON-Christian symbols.
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good posts guys, the jtfers have great knowledge on history.
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Briann I do think that occultists were a very huge influence on Hitler too like Blavatsky, etc. and that's definitely not in line with Christianity at all.
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As Chaim stated on a past Ask JTF show, Hitler,yimach shemo, was never excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church. Asking the reason for that is perfectly fair. Chaim also pointed out that the concentration camps had chapels which read "Adolf Hitler is Jesus Christ's Answer to the Jews."
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Technically, he was a nonobservant Catholic. In practical terms, he was a Norse pagan (Asatru).
He spoke about Christianity in an abstract sense frequently, because he knew that most Germans weren't ready to openly practice paganism yet, but that doesn't mean he was a Christian in any recognizable sense. (And I know full well that German "Christians" were pretty much the same as Arab "Christians", so don't think I am defending them.)
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As Chaim stated on a past Ask JTF show, Hitler,yimach shemo, was never excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church. Asking the reason for that is perfectly fair. Chaim also pointed out that the concentration camps had chapels which read "Adolf Hitler is Jesus Christ's Answer to the Jews."
Yes, this is true, and needs to be said, but the Nazis certainly didn't speak from real Christianity in any way. Look at what happened to the Serb Christians under Nazism.
Real Christians got sent to the death camps and died just like 6 million Jews, or were massacred en masse on the spot like the Serbs.
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hitler had a special hatred of the Jewish people. His greatest goal was to eliminate world Jewry.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/the_final_solution/
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http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/the_final_solution/
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UNPRECEDENTED
The Nazi attempt to deliberately, systematically eliminate an entire people from the planet was unprecedented in human history.
Hitler targeted the Jews for a specific reason, which was not just racial. The elimination of the Jews had a unique “status” in Hitler’s master plan. While he certainly killed millions of others (gypsies, communists, homosexuals, etc.) he made exceptions for all these groups. The only group for which no exception was made was the Jews—they all had to die.
Writes Lucy Dawidowicz in the War Against the Jews:
“The final solution transcended the bounds of modern historical experience. Never before in modern history had one people made the killing of another the fulfillment of an ideology, in whose pursuit means were identical with ends. History has, to be sure, recorded terrible massacres and destructions that one people perpetrated against another. But all, however cruel and unjustifiable, were intended to achieve an instrumental ends, being means to ends and not ends in and of themselves.” (3)
In other words, the elimination of the Jews was not the means to an end. It was an end in itself. What that end was Hitler explained himself in his writings and speeches.
Hitler believed that before monotheism and the Jewish ethical vision came along, the world operated according to the laws of nature and evolution: survival of the fittest. The strong survived and the weak perished. When the lion hunts the herd the young, the sick and weak are always the first victims. Nature is brutal but nature is balanced. There is no mercy. So too in antiquity-the great empires-the Babylonians, Greeks and Romans conquered, subjugated and destroyed other peoples. They respected no borders and showed no mercy. This too Hitler viewed as natural and correct. But in a world operating according to a Divinely-dictated ethical system—where a G-d-given standard applies and not anyone’s might—the weak did not need to fear the strong. As Hitler saw it, the strong were emasculated-this was neither normal nor natural and in Hitler’s eyes, the Jews were to blame.
His plan was to take over the world, set up a pagan master race and return the world to what he viewed was its ideal natural state; a world “unpolluted” by Jewish ideas and Jewish off-shoots such as Christianity...
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Indeed TBF many innocent people died at the hands of the evil nazis. Each one of them did not deserve what happened...
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Hard to say really. Some combination of pagan/nordic mythology and nominal catholicism. On the other hand, Catholicism is a form of Christianity which he expressed his disgust for on some occasions, so maybe it was just a show and a power play to get the pope on his side any time he professed association with catholicism. I'm not really sure.
He definitely did express admiration for Islam because he viewed it as an acceptable form of enforced brutality. That doesn't mean he adhered to the religion, obviously.
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Hard to say really. Some combination of pagan/nordic mythology and nominal catholicism. On the other hand, Catholicism is a form of Christianity which he expressed his disgust for on some occasions, so maybe it was just a show and a power play to get the pope on his side any time he professed association with catholicism. I'm not really sure.
He definitely did express admiration for Islam because he viewed it as an acceptable form of enforced brutality. That doesn't mean he adhered to the religion, obviously.
Look at Pedofront, some come out and openly espouse Asatru or similar beliefs and some claim to be Christians of some sort or another. I think Don Black and David Duke know better than to make a singular, once-and-for-all call for WNs to all convert to Asatru or Islam, since many are not ready for it, but any so-called Christian who is a practicing Nazi is pretty messed-up as it is.
I don't think Hitler actually deified himself though like someone else suggested; that was more Stalin.
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Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until he died. "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941
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As you know you can call yourself a Catholic and not follow any church teachings when we look at Catholicism today. But today the Pope is OKing prostitution and condoms...
PS: Did the church ever excommunicate him? I don't think so...
. Fidel Castro was excommunicated by Pope John XXIII in 1962 for simply being a communist.
If Communists can be excommunicated, why can’t Nazis?
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Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until he died. "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941
Link the quote
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All active members of the Nazi party, and all leaders of the Nazi party, by the Conference of German Bishops, February, 1931
Since Hitler was a nazi and a member of his own party he himself must have been excommunicated roman catholic church
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AGAINST RELIGIOUS FOOLISHNESS
Hitler the Catholic
I have often reflected, wistfully, on how much happier modern history might have been had Hitler been brought up as an atheist, an agnostic, or, at least, a Unitarian. Born and bred a Catholic, he grew up in a religion and in a culture that was anti-semitic, and in persecuting Jews, he repeatedly proclaimed he was doing the "Lord's work."
You will find it in Mein Kampf.- "Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."
Hitler said it again at a Nazi Christmas celebration in 1926: "Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews . . . The work that Christ started but could not finish, I--Adolf Hitler--will conclude."
In a Reichstag speech in 1938, Hitler again echoed the religious origins of his crusade. "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews, I am fighting for the Lord's work. "
Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until he died. "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.
There was really no reason for Hitler to doubt his good standing as a Catholic. The Catholic press In Germany was eager to curry his favor, and the princes of the Catholic Church never asked for his excommunication. Religions encourage their followers to hold authority in unquestioning respect; this is what makes devout religionists such wonderful dupes for dictators.
When Hitler narrowly escaped assassination in Munich in November, 1939, he gave the credit to providence. "Now I am completely content," he exclaimed. "The fact that I left the Burgerbraukeller earlier than usual is a corroboration of Providence's intention to let me reach my goal." Catholic newspapers throughout the Reich echoed this, declaring that it was a miraculous working of providence that had protected their Fuhrer. One cardinal, Michael Faulhaber, sent a telegram instructing that a Te Deum be sung in the cathedral of Munich, "to thank Divine Providence in the name of the archdiocese for the Fuhrer's fortunate escape. " The Pope also sent his special personal congratulations!
Later the Pope was to publicly describe Hitler's opposition to Russia as a "high-minded gallantry in defense of the foundation of Christian culture. "Several German bishops openly supported Hitler's invasion of Russia, calling it a "European crusade." One bishop exhorted all Catholics to fight for "a victory that will allow Europe to breathe freely again and will promise all nations a new future. "
Biographer John Toland wrote of Hitler's religion: "Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy, he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of G-d. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of G-d - so long as it was done impersonally, without cruelty. Himmler was pleased to murder with mercy. He ordered technical experts to devise gas chambers which would eliminate masses of Jews efficiently and 'humanely', then crowded the victims into boxcars and sent them east to stay in ghettos until the killing centers in Poland were completed."
Jews, of course, were not the only "holy" victims. In Yugoslavia, Hitler installed a Croatian, Ante Pavelic, as his puppet, and Pavelic, a Catholic like Hitler, began extermination of the Serbs, who were Greek Orthodox. One of my relatives by marriage is a Yugoslavian, a Serb, who survived World War II by going "underground" with the advent of Nazism in his country. Out of his immediate family of 17 (this includes his parents, siblings, aunts, uncles and first cousins), only three survived. His mother and sister just disappeared, his mother shortly after being given the opportunity to convert to Catholicism, an offer she refused. The Vatican was not unaware of the massacres conducted in Yugoslavia In the name of Catholicism, but Pope Pius remained diplomatically quiet. In fact, one of his actions was to receive Ante Pavelic in private audience, thereby giving his blessing to this regime.
War's causes, of course, are complex, but it would be difficult to overestimate the disastrous role religion played in World War 11. Distrust, fear and hatred of Jews was a lesson Hitler learned early in life. It was taught by his church and reinforced by his culture. It became his obsession, his version of "the Lord's work." That Hitler, that supreme villain of the 20th century, could see himself, and be seen by others, as "providentially" guided, protected and inspired should certainly serve as an ominous clue to the dangers of religious belief. just as the Vatican umbrella could be maneuvered to shield the massacres of Serbs by Catholics in Yugoslavia, so can religion validate any behavior, any atrocity, any war.
by Anne Nicol Gaylor., expert from Lead us Not Into Penn Station.
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I remember reading books in school that Hitler as well Geobbels tried in the late 20's early 30's to be excommunicated from the roman catholic church but it never happened.
Also from books I read once someone has died they cannot be excommunicated by the roman catholic church
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Why did the Church never excommunicate him? Catholic Church has two forms of excommunication. One dictated by the Vatican and another one in which the sinner incurs automatically as soon as he commits certain sins (murder, obviuosly genocide, abortion... fall in tha latter category). In the case of nazis, if they were baptized and considered Catholics, they became automatically excommunicatted when they comitted or supported the first murder. However, the automatic excommunication can, and sometimes is, declared formally by the Vatican. (In such cases, the Vatican does not excommunicate. They simply declare that the sinner has already excommunicated himself). So, the question is why did the Vatican never formally declare that nazi criminals had excommunicated themselves? They answer is most likely fear! Nazis could have easily destroyed the Vatican or assasinated catholic priests elsewhere if their excommunication were formalised, and certainly it wouldn't have saved one single life. Why would the Pope take a meassure that could lead to more murders? Even more, some priests could secretly save people as far as the church had no evident confrontation with the regime.
Schindler did not only abstain from openly critizing the nazis, but even joined the party to be able to save many Jews. He could have cried out: Nazi criminals! and be executed. He would have become a martyr, but unable to save even one life! If we can understand Schindler and others, why not underdstanding the Vatican's attitude?
If the Church leaders may be guilty of something, it's rather the anti-Semitc teaching some of them had spread in different periods of history that may have contributed to people's passiveness during the Holocaust. But once nazism had taken power, the Vatican could do nothing better, whether they wanted or not.
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http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
Nazi photos
compiled by Jim Walker
created: 20 May 1998
additions: 02 July 2008
The following photos provide a pictorial glimpse of Hitler, how his Nazis mixed religion with government, and the support for Hitler by the Protestant and Catholic Churches in Germany. In, no way, does this gallery of photos intend to support Nazism or anti-Semitism, but instead, intends to warn against them.
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The following translation of the very important Article 16 of the Reichskonkordat was authorized by the Vatican:
Article 16
“Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath of fealty either to the Reich Representative of the State concerned, or to the President of the Reich, according to the following formula:
“‘Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the [regional - EC] State of . . . I swear and promise to honor the legally constituted Government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honor it. In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it.’”
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Hitler was just a crazy lunatic. That [censored] just wanted to kill many peoplz we was a m.f.
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Hitler was a believer of occultism("satanism" called in Christianity). So, he was not a Christian.
You have a documentary called "Hitler and occult", so you can see.
"His" ideas are the old ideas of pagans and satanists(that's why he hated Jewish people, because he hated the Creator). Today those ideas are again on the power, but this time almost everywhere on the Earth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksnXDjx50pc
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Hitler was just a crazy lunatic. That schvartza just wanted to kill many peoplz we was a m.f.
That's silly. How can you call him a Schwartza when he hated all non-white blondes?
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It seems clear to me that Hitler claimed to be a Christian because it helped him gain and maintain power. He found support among some evil members of the Church. But the true values of Christianity are not compatible with Nazism. Deep down, Hitler despised Christianity :
"You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness...."
A.Hitler , Quoted from Albert Speer's memoirs
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http://www.catholicarrogance.org/Catholic/NaziLeadership.html
To be sure, the Roman Catholic Church wants to distance itself from all of these monsters now, but it made no attempt to do so at the time, when it could have made a tremendous impact. We only know of two individuals that Hitler killed personally, his wife Eva Braun, and himself. To kill ten million other people, Hitler needed millions of helpers. He didn't get those helpers from some planet in outer space like Mars. He got about two thirds of them from the two thirds of Germans who belonged to the Protestant churches and the other third from the third of Germans who identified themselves as Roman Catholics. The clergy all knew how much Hitler needed all of these helpers and how mad it would have made him if they were to tell the millions of their sheep how horribly sinful it was for them to have any part in the Jewish Holocaust. And the pope himself deliberately chose not to inform the consciences of his German subjects. As Lewy reported,
"When Dr, Edoardo Senatro, the correspondent of L'Osservatore Romano in Berlin, asked Pius XII whether he would not protest the extermination of the Jews, the Pope is reported to have answered, "Dear friend, do not forget that millions of Catholics serve in the German armies. Shall I bring them into conflicts of conscience?" The Pope knew that the German Catholics were not prepared to suffer martyrdom for their Church; still less were they willing to incur the wrath of their Nazi rulers for the sake of the Jews whom their own bishops for years, had castigated as a harmful influence in German life." ... The failure of the Pope was a measure of the Church's failure to convert her gospel of brotherly love and human dignity into living reality."
(The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany, p 304 )
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That's silly. How can you call him a Schwartza when he hated all non-white blondes?
Yes it's strange but Hitler was actually a shavtza
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/world-war-2/7961211/Hitler-had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html
Hitler 'had Jewish and African roots', DNA tests show
Adolf Hitler is likely to have had Jewish and African roots, DNA tests have shown.
Adolf Hitler may have had Jewish and African roots, DNA tests have shown
Adolf Hitler may have had Jewish and African roots, DNA tests have shown
By Heidi Blake 6:25AM BST 24 Aug 2010
Saliva samples taken from 39 relatives of the Nazi leader show he may have had biological links to the “subhuman” races that he tried to exterminate during the Holocaust.
Jean-Paul Mulders, a Belgian journalist, and Marc Vermeeren, a historian, tracked down the Fuhrer’s relatives, including an Austrian farmer who was his cousin, earlier this year.
A chromosome called Haplogroup E1b1b1 which showed up in their samples is rare in Western Europe and is most commonly found in the Berbers of Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia, as well as among Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.
"One can from this postulate that Hitler was related to people whom he despised," Mr Mulders wrote in the Belgian magazine, Knack.
Haplogroup E1b1b1, which accounts for approximately 18 to 20 per cent of Ashkenazi and 8.6 per cent to 30 per cent of Sephardic Y-chromosomes, appears to be one of the major founding lineages of the Jewish population.
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Knack, which published the findings, says the DNA was tested under stringent laboratory conditions.
"This is a surprising result," said Ronny Decorte, a genetic specialist at the Catholic University of Leuven.
"The affair is fascinating if one compares it with the conception of the world of the Nazis, in which race and blood was central.
“Hitler's concern over his descent was not unjustified. He was apparently not "pure" or ‘Ayran’.”
It is not the first time that historians have suggested Hitler had Jewish ancestry.
His father, Alois, is thought to have been the illegitimate offspring of a maid called Maria Schickelgruber and a 19-year-old Jewish man called Frankenberger.
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Does miserableness ever take a holiday? That's all I want to know. I'm just saying.
No need to be miserable if there's a drinking game made of it.
Get a bottle of your favorite liquor and play along as three or four of our members regularly do the following:
1 sip every time one of our members talks about "Christians" in a not nice way.
1 sip every time you see the above and then the person backtracks and says they just want to get along with everyone
2 sips every time you see "idol worship" mentioned in relation to Christians.
a whole shot every time you see "Jebus" mentioned
Bonus if there's some implication of hellfire of grievous bodily harm implied, you get two full shots for that.
Soon you might even be looking forward to such posts!
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No need to be miserable if there's a drinking game made of it.
Get a bottle of your favorite liquor and play along as three or four of our members regularly do the following:
1 sip every time one of our members talks about "Christians" in a not nice way.
1 sip every time you see the above and then the person backtracks and says they just want to get along with everyone
2 sips every time you see "idol worship" mentioned in relation to Christians.
a whole shot every time you see "Jebus" mentioned
Bonus if there's some implication of hellfire of grievous bodily harm implied, you get two full shots for that.
Soon you might even be looking forward to such posts!
:::D
I might just try that Rubystars! Sounds like a fun way to turn a frown upside down. ;D
I do know that this is a legitimate topic of discussion.
I just couldn't help but wish that, sometimes, people didn't seem to take such glee in 'piling on'.
Why did the Church never excommunicate him? Catholic Church has two forms of excommunication. One dictated by the Vatican and another one in which the sinner incurs automatically as soon as he commits certain sins (murder, obviuosly genocide, abortion... fall in tha latter category). In the case of nazis, if they were baptized and considered Catholics, they became automatically excommunicatted when they comitted or supported the first murder. However, the automatic excommunication can, and sometimes is, declared formally by the Vatican. (In such cases, the Vatican does not excommunicate. They simply declare that the sinner has already excommunicated himself). So, the question is why did the Vatican never formally declare that nazi criminals had excommunicated themselves? They answer is most likely fear! Nazis could have easily destroyed the Vatican or assasinated catholic priests elsewhere if their excommunication were formalised, and certainly it wouldn't have saved one single life. Why would the Pope take a meassure that could lead to more murders? Even more, some priests could secretly save people as far as the church had no evident confrontation with the regime.
Schindler did not only abstain from openly critizing the nazis, but even joined the party to be able to save many Jews. He could have cried out: Nazi criminals! and be executed. He would have become a martyr, but unable to save even one life! If we can understand Schindler and others, why not underdstanding the Vatican's attitude?
If the Church leaders may be guilty of something, it's rather the anti-Semitc teaching some of them had spread in different periods of history that may have contributed to people's passiveness during the Holocaust. But once nazism had taken power, the Vatican could do nothing better, whether they wanted or not.
I agree with Raulmarrio.
I think Hitler was crazy and G-dless. ???
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Hitler was just a crazy lunatic. That schvartza just wanted to kill many peoplz we was a m.f.
huh? Hitler wasn't black...
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Does miserableness ever take a holiday? That's all I want to know. I'm just saying.
Muman wasn't being "miserable." Wanting to know why Hitler was not excommunicated is a fair question to ask.
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BTW I don't think that Nazis even those who were official pagans like Himmler are authentic representatives of the old Germanic and north religions and mythology.
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Yes, this is true, and needs to be said, but the Nazis certainly didn't speak from real Christianity in any way. Look at what happened to the Serb Christians under Nazism.
Real Christians got sent to the death camps and died just like 6 million Jews, or were massacred en masse on the spot like the Serbs.
Exactly, its like when nazis worship hitler thinkibg he was pro white, when in reality Hitler is the reasons hundred of millions of whites died, and he has given us over 70 years of white guilt and self hatred in the media.
Thanks alot Hitler(may you burn in hell)
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Actaully, the wicked man (a home tradition not to spell his name if possible) may have had some Jewish and African genes. But that didn't make him either or Jew or an African. Most Eastern Germans have Asian Mongols genes.
Blood B is typically Asian. It means that if you or some of your ancestors had that blood, even if your type is A or O, you have Asian ancestry and moslt likely Asian genes, thus making you a non-fully white.
Some members here seem to be as obsessed with race as he was. What a disgrace!
Paradoxically, the article mentioned Berbers and Tunisians with the intention of proving that he had the Semitic (or Afroasiatic) genes he so much hated. Not the intention of promoting racism. And Berbers are probably fully genetically white while most Germans are not.
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1. he was born a catholic and was always officially part of the church
2. he respected islam and many of the things in mein kampf come from the quran
3. he was obsessed with old german myth.
4. he refused to recognize than there is a power greater than himself and that there are things he does not control
lord knows what he believed in
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1. he was born a catholic and was always officially part of the church
2. he respected islam and many of the things in mein kampf come from the quran
3. he was obsessed with old german myth.
4. he refused to recognize than there is a power greater than himself and that there are things he does not control
lord knows what he believed in
He was officially part of the Church? Anyone who has been baptized is technically officially part of the Church. Not even excommunion is considered to "unbaptize" a person. Excommunion, if dictated by the Church or automatically self incurred in and later declared, simply means that the excommunicated one would not be allowed to receive a Sacrament. If self-icurred in but not declared, it's the person who should refrain himself from receiving a Sacrament. I have not heard that anyone of that time who left the Church, either by committing murder, or by voluntarily changing to atheism or to another religion, who has asked that his excommunion be registered. It's a modern practice in some Latin countries now, that some people demand the Church to register their excommunion by a marginal note on baptism registrars. Anyway, an excommunicated Catholic is still a Catholic under canonical laws.
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Muman wasn't being "miserable." Wanting to know why Hitler was not excommunicated is a fair question to ask.
It is a fair question. I do not disagree with that point. I think I did say that in a previous post.
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Even leftist christian haters will acknowledge that the reason Hitler could not ex-communicate the church was for practical reasons, not for religious reasons.
He DID want to remove christianity and replace it with Germanic paganism, but every time the Nazi's attempted to do this, there was major backlash and fear from the Germans. Especially when he tried to officially replace Christmas with the winter Solstice, all the christians became frightened of this move, so the Nazis backpedaled and decided to slowly replace all the symbols and imagery with non-christian symbols.
None of this excuses the Catholic church from standing idly by while This Monster did unholy things, but to say that Hitler was a Catholic is nonsense.
Here is a great article on how the nazis tried to change christmas into something non-christian:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3820153,00.html
Swastikas on tree: How Nazis stole Christmas
New exhibition in western German city of Cologne shows Nazis tried to skew Christmas story to do away with Jewish baby Jesus, impose their racist ideology and propaganda on popular festival
AFP
Published: 12.19.09, 13:41 / Israel Culture
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Presents wrapped in paper covered with Nazi symbols nestling beneath a tree adorned with swastikas and grenade-shaped baubles: Welcome to Christmas under Adolf Hitler's Third Reich.
As a new exhibition in the western German city of Cologne shows, the Nazis tried to skew the Christmas story to do away with the Jewish baby Jesus and impose their racist ideology and propaganda on the popular festival.
Disputed Sale
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Full story
"Celebrating the birth of a Jewish baby was unthinkable for the Nazis," Juergen Mueller, the chief researcher behind the exhibition, told AFP.
"But Christmas was too popular to be banned. They therefore decided to corrupt it."
Nazi officials "invented a Germanic origin" for Christmas, renaming it "Julfest" and claiming that yuletide traditions stemmed from ancient rituals surrounding the winter solstice four days earlier, Mueller added.
Baby Jesus was turfed out of the crib and Santa Claus was reincarnated as a Viking knight.
In addition, the regime also created bizarre Nazi Christmas symbols, including swastika-shaped tins for Christmas cakes and Christmas cards emblazoned with a bullet wrapped in fir.
The creator of the exhibition - named "Far From A Holy Night" - got the idea as she was scouring flea markets for Christmas memorabilia.
"I wanted to have an 'old-style' Christmas for my father's 70th birthday... that's when I started to come across these objects," Rita Breuer told AFP.
The objects "tell a story not often told," she said, adding that she hoped the exhibition would prompt historians to do more research on the subject.
Ironically, some Nazi Christmas items, such as the wrapping paper emblazoned with twisted crosses, were later banned for fear that children would tear the beloved symbol of the Third Reich.
Unfortunately, explained Mueller, some of the Nazis' corruptions of Christmas have since been adopted by today's neo-Nazis in Germany.
Nazis re-wrote song
Among the memorabilia available is a CD of Christmas songs, with an innocent-looking sleeve of a snowy landscape, but with the songs rewritten by the Nazis and all references to Christianity expunged.
"Many visitors are amazed to discover that the version of the song they know is not the original but the way the Nazis re-wrote them," said Mueller.
Germans still buy so-called "Julleuchter" - Christmas lanterns - without knowing they were popularized by Hitler's sidekick Heinrich Himmler in 1938, with tens of thousands of them being manufactured by concentration camp prisoners.
Nevertheless, despite traces of the Nazis' Christmas corruption still remaining, the Third Reich generally failed to dampen the Christmas spirit in Germany.
"During this period, the Germans kept the link with the Christian festival, even if the symbols were no longer used," said Mueller.
The exhibition is hosted by the Cologne centre for Nazi research and runs until January 17.
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There is a difference between disagreeing with the Vatican--even very strongly disagreeing with it--and attacking Catholics in general.
That's all I will say!
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Why did the Church never excommunicate him? Catholic Church has two forms of excommunication. One dictated by the Vatican and another one in which the sinner incurs automatically as soon as he commits certain sins (murder, obviuosly genocide, abortion... fall in tha latter category). In the case of nazis, if they were baptized and considered Catholics, they became automatically excommunicatted when they comitted or supported the first murder. However, the automatic excommunication can, and sometimes is, declared formally by the Vatican. (In such cases, the Vatican does not excommunicate. They simply declare that the sinner has already excommunicated himself). So, the question is why did the Vatican never formally declare that nazi criminals had excommunicated themselves? They answer is most likely fear! Nazis could have easily destroyed the Vatican or assasinated catholic priests elsewhere if their excommunication were formalised, and certainly it wouldn't have saved one single life. Why would the Pope take a meassure that could lead to more murders? Even more, some priests could secretly save people as far as the church had no evident confrontation with the regime.
Schindler did not only abstain from openly critizing the nazis, but even joined the party to be able to save many Jews. He could have cried out: Nazi criminals! and be executed. He would have become a martyr, but unable to save even one life! If we can understand Schindler and others, why not underdstanding the Vatican's attitude?
If the Church leaders may be guilty of something, it's rather the anti-Semitc teaching some of them had spread in different periods of history that may have contributed to people's passiveness during the Holocaust. But once nazism had taken power, the Vatican could do nothing better, whether they wanted or not.
Many good points Raul, The Pope was in no position to torment Hitler while he was alive and it was pointless for the church to address him after he was dead... If the Pope was not concerned for his own wellbeing he needed to be concerned for the thousands of clergy that were part of his church... Hitler may not have wanted the bad press of invading the Vatican however it would have been very easy for him to send hundreds of Germany's clergy off to the death camps... Excommunication is only a factor to the person being excommunicated... If the person really doesn't care as more then likely Hitler didn't. What would be the point of endangering countless lives to make such a point.
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Boyana you certainly brought some interesting information here.
I did once read however a study that examined the place of nordic/pagan mythology and occult beliefs within hitler's and the nazi party's belief system. Don't remember much about it though, but it does seem from what you cited that he considered himself a devoted Catholic.
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Yes it's strange but Hitler was actually a shavtza
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/world-war-2/7961211/Hitler-had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html
etc
I think you're misunderstanding the study. Having "African roots" from generations ago doesn't make someone magically into "a shvartza." Otherwise, every single person on earth is a shvartza according to the out of africa hypothesis which is a predominant point of view to explain the human genetics like the ones you're describing (of course, recent news has challenged this theory because of ancient finds in the land of Israel, but you get my point - what you're saying is not congruent).
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I think you're misunderstanding the study. Having "African roots" from generations ago doesn't make someone magically into "a shvartza." Otherwise, every single person on earth is a shvartza according to the out of africa hypothesis which is a predominant point of view to explain the human genetics like the ones you're describing (of course, recent news has challenged this theory because of ancient finds in the land of Israel, but you get my point - what you're saying is not congruent).
So are you telling me that somewhere in a lab is Hitlers DNA???? Sounds like a plot for a really bad movie. Fuhrersic Park???
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No need to be miserable if there's a drinking game made of it.
Get a bottle of your favorite liquor and play along as three or four of our members regularly do the following:
1 sip every time one of our members talks about "Christians" in a not nice way.
1 sip every time you see the above and then the person backtracks and says they just want to get along with everyone
2 sips every time you see "idol worship" mentioned in relation to Christians.
a whole shot every time you see "Jebus" mentioned
Bonus if there's some implication of hellfire of grievous bodily harm implied, you get two full shots for that.
Soon you might even be looking forward to such posts!
Why are you making fun of a decent person?It is NOT funny. Not in the least bit. It is annoying and pathetic.
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Why are you making fun of a decent person?It is NOT funny. Not in the least bit. It is annoying and pathetic.
Do not worry about it. I was not offended...
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Why are you making fun of a decent person?It is NOT funny. Not in the least bit. It is annoying and pathetic.
Did you forget what Serb Christians did to save Jews?
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Why are you making fun of a decent person?It is NOT funny. Not in the least bit. It is annoying and pathetic.
There are a number of things posted on here that are pathetic if you catch my drift but Ruby's post was actually kind of funny... Muman knows its nothing personal its only a difference of opinion.
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Every bit as Christian as the Crusaders, the Inquisitions, and Martin Luther... or Jeremiah Wright, Fred Phelps, and Jimmy Carter. Christianity is a big umbrella, there are a lot of camps under it [sometimes we get a Huckabee].
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Did you forget what Serb Christians did to save Jews?
TBF, Boyana is a Serb.
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I know that, which is why I asked her for clarification.
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No need to be miserable if there's a drinking game made of it.
Get a bottle of your favorite liquor and play along as three or four of our members regularly do the following:
1 sip every time one of our members talks about "Christians" in a not nice way.
1 sip every time you see the above and then the person backtracks and says they just want to get along with everyone
2 sips every time you see "idol worship" mentioned in relation to Christians.
a whole shot every time you see "Jebus" mentioned
Bonus if there's some implication of hellfire of grievous bodily harm implied, you get two full shots for that.
Soon you might even be looking forward to such posts!
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I know that, which is why I asked her for clarification.
The Ustasha in Croatia was supported by the local priests and churches. So I think Boyana was talking about the Catholic church in Yugoslavia.
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Actually i think he was an atheist he never believed in Nordic Paganism he laughed at other party members who subscribed to it. H was just one of these guys who would use whatever religion was useful for the moment,but he really liked the Japanese religion and Islam
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http://www.catholicarrogance.org/Catholic/NaziLeadership.html
To be sure, the Roman Catholic Church wants to distance itself from all of these monsters now, but it made no attempt to do so at the time, when it could have made a tremendous impact. We only know of two individuals that Hitler killed personally, his wife Eva Braun, and himself. To kill ten million other people, Hitler needed millions of helpers. He didn't get those helpers from some planet in outer space like Mars. He got about two thirds of them from the two thirds of Germans who belonged to the Protestant churches and the other third from the third of Germans who identified themselves as Roman Catholics. The clergy all knew how much Hitler needed all of these helpers and how mad it would have made him if they were to tell the millions of their sheep how horribly sinful it was for them to have any part in the Jewish Holocaust. And the pope himself deliberately chose not to inform the consciences of his German subjects. As Lewy reported,
"When Dr, Edoardo Senatro, the correspondent of L'Osservatore Romano in Berlin, asked Pius XII whether he would not protest the extermination of the Jews, the Pope is reported to have answered, "Dear friend, do not forget that millions of Catholics serve in the German armies. Shall I bring them into conflicts of conscience?" The Pope knew that the German Catholics were not prepared to suffer martyrdom for their Church; still less were they willing to incur the wrath of their Nazi rulers for the sake of the Jews whom their own bishops for years, had castigated as a harmful influence in German life." ... The failure of the Pope was a measure of the Church's failure to convert her gospel of brotherly love and human dignity into living reality."
(The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany, p 304 )
Wow. Isn't Hitler admirable? >:(
He did do us a supreme favor. He didn't personally murder any Jews ( or any other innocent people) during the holocaust. He only personally murdered Eva Braun and himself.
I've been enlightened by this site. It's not biased at all. Catholic Arrogance...please.
I think that it's sinful to give Hitler a 'pass' and to try to blame it all on the Christians in Germany.
People are being fooled by Barack Obama everyday...does that make him any less evil?
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What liquor is best for this game? Whiskey, vodka, rum, tequila?
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What liquor is best for this game? Whiskey, vodka, rum, tequila?
There is a nice Sweet Tea Vodka or Triple Expresso Vodka. Either one would fit the bill for me. ;)
http://www.parkwayreststop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/firefly-vodka-2.jpg
http://www.drinkhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/triple-espresso-martini.jpg
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What liquor is best for this game? Whiskey, vodka, rum, tequila?
If we played that game, but taking a sip of a strong drink each time someone makes a derogatory comment on Africans we would be drunk all the time. :laugh:
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Very good choices bullcat!
I love the designs on the bottles
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If we played that game, but taking a sip of a strong drink each time someone makes a derogatory comment on Africans we would be drunk all the time. :laugh:
It's not so much Africanus Animalis that is the problem its...It's the evil actions Africanus Animalis Americanus that causes some of us here to speak out. PS. Not even a bottle of Over Proof Rum would be enough to soothe a humans nerves after spending a day in the hood.
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It's not so much Africanus Animalis that is the problem its...It's the evil actions Africanus Animalis Americanus that causes some of us here to speak out.
Is that an official biological classification for that species? :::D
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Is that an official biological classification for that species? :::D
Yes! It's from the fjack urban dictionary...fjack was one of our great members back when the forum started.
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fjack was one of our great members back when the forum started.
You don't have to remind me about him. He is legendary. He's one of my favorites. Whatever happened to him?
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You don't have to remind me about him. He is legendary. He's one of my favorites. Whatever happened to him?
He use to turn up on the forum now and then but its been some time since the last time he was on... If I remember correctly he had gone back to school and got some sort of engineering degree and became busy with that... He enjoyed talking local New York politics like we use to do more often when the forum first started.. As we drifted away from that to some extent he may have lost some interest in posting... He could write some of the most interesting posts about politicians and New Yorks past political dealings as well as the so called civil rights movement... He also had no problem calling a spade a spade... Political correctness was just not his cup of tea :::D If he reads the forum I hope he drops in to say hello and let us know how he is doing... Better still it would be great if he came back and spent some time on the forum again.
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It's not so much Africanus Animalis that is the problem its...It's the evil actions Africanus Animalis Americanus that causes some of us here to speak out. PS. Not even a bottle of Over Proof Rum would be enough to soothe a humans nerves after spending a day in the hood.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Better still it would be great if he came back and spent some time on the forum again.
Amen to that. This is a guy who knew all of the names and all of the players. He didn't waste any time mincing words; he just told it like it is.