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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Spiraling Leopard on November 11, 2011, 08:48:24 AM

Title: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Spiraling Leopard on November 11, 2011, 08:48:24 AM
I received this post from a friend in NY. One of his friends is living in France and posted this to him with the request that he distribute it to his American friends. He prefaces with: Once again, the real news in France is conveniently not being reported as it should. To give you an idea of what's going on in France where there are now between 5 and 6 million Muslims and about 600,000 Jews, here is an email that came from a Jew living in France. Will the world say nothing - again - as it did in Hitler's time?

He writes: "I am a Jew - therefore I am forwarding this to everyone on all my e-mail lists. I will not sit back and do nothing. Nowhere have the flames of anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France: In Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil - all recently. A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred Dreyfus in Paris, the words 'Dirty Jew' were painted. In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The bus that takes Jewish children to school in Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months. According to the Police, metropolitan Paris has seen 10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents PER DAY in the past 30 days. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been defaced with slogans proclaiming 'Jews to the gas chambers' and 'Death to the Jews.' A gunman opened fire on a kosher butcher's shop (and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse, France; a Jewish couple in their 20's were beaten up by five men in Villeurbanne, France The woman was pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and vandalized in Sarcelles, France . This was just in the past week. So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a friend, or merely a person with the capacity and desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do, at least, these three simple things: First, care enough to stay informed. Don't ever let yourself become deluded into thinking that this is not your fight. I remind you of what Pastor Neimoller said in World War II: 'First they came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.' Second, boycott France and French products. Only the Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and, unlike them, France exports more than just oil and hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes. Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and, whatever else we may know about the French, we most certainly know that they are like a cobweb in a hurricane in the face of well-directed pressure. Third, send this along to your family, your friends, and your co-workers. Think of all of the people of good conscience that you know and let them know that you and the people that you care about need their help. The number one bestselling book in France is..'September 11: The Frightening Fraud,' which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon. Please pass this on. Let's not let history repeat itself, thank-you for your time and consideration." Freedom Center pamphlets now available on Kindle: Click here. -- Rabbi Nachum Shifren Your Educational Candidate Lecturer and Author, Candidate for California State Senate, District #26 www.RabbiForSenate.com Rabbi Nachum Shifren needs your help, please contribute any amount large or small to support his candidacy for State Senate, helping take back our neighborhoods, state and country. To contribute to this cause click on the following link; http://tinyurl.com/ydro6le "If we had 10 more teachers like Rabbi Shifren, we could turn around America tomorrow."

....Rev Jesse Lee Petersen
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 11, 2011, 09:50:49 AM
I don't understand this call to boycott everything that's French. All the antisemitic incidents that take place in France are carried out not by the indigenous French population, but by Arab and African immigrants, who also actively target non-Jewish natives by the way. It's not French culture and French people that are the causes of this violence, it's immigration of Muslim and Arab roaches and the left-wing policies that promote it. There are French Jew-haters, but : 1) they are a small fraction of the French population; 2) they do not carry out violent acts against Jews. The public, the media, the politicians and the police are not indifferent and passive in the face of antisemitic acts in France. On the contrary, several cases have raised public outcry. There has been a mobilization of security forces to protect synagogues and cultural centers. The vast majority of France is safe for Jews. The incidents are all concentrated in a few neighborhoods populated by Arabs and Africans. I am not saying this is good enough. I am saying that the root cause of the problem is a minority of Muslims (and their radical left-wing friends) who have nothing to do with the principles of the French Republic and who actually attack them continuously by trying to impose sharia law. The solution is not a meaningless boycott of France, the solution is to throw all these Muslim roaches out.
Needless to say, any Jew who wants to live a truly Jewish life should move to Israel anyway. Unfortunately for Israel and for Judaism, a lot of French Jews are very assimilated and very attached to France (which is a very anti-religious country in general).
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 11, 2011, 10:21:35 AM
Also, about the reference to 9/11, you Americans should not believe that the French have irrational hostility towards the US because it's not true. Most French are actually friendly towards the American people and all the French were supportive of the Americans when the terrorist attacks occurred in 2001. The French are sometimes critical of US policies (sometimes with good reasons by the way) and they are attached to their independence. But that doesn't mean they don't like the Americans. Most of them actually admire the American people for their all their achievements. They just resent being looked down upon or told orders by a foreign power because they are proud of their culture and they want to preserve their differences.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Zelhar on November 11, 2011, 11:12:37 AM
Yaakov mandelbrot, it's true that most of the anti-jewish action is  carried by muslims but you cannot seriously try to excuse the native frogs, i mean french  ;-) let's see.... didn't degaul backstabbed us in 1967 and all subsequent french presidents continually condemned us in exchange for friendly relations with the Muslim world and with the increasing Muslim population in France?

I don't know if the french hate us or they are merely hypocritical conscience-less egotistical people. But the end result isn't much different anyway.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 11, 2011, 11:27:06 AM
Yaakov mandelbrot, it's true that most of the anti-jewish action is  carried by muslims but you cannot seriously try to excuse the native frogs, i mean french  ;-) let's see.... didn't degaul backstabbed us in 1967 and all subsequent french presidents continually condemned us in exchange for friendly relations with the Muslim world and with the increasing Muslim population in France?

I don't know if the french hate us or they are merely hypocritical conscience-less egotistical people. But the end result isn't much different anyway.

This is about antisemitic actions carried out in France against French Jews, not about the policies pursued by French governments with regard to Israel. Of course the policies pursued by French governments against Israel are very bad. But this is a different topic.

(by the way, you are the first one to notice the fractal figure : are you interested in Mandelbrot's works ?)
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Zelhar on November 11, 2011, 11:41:06 AM
Yaakov, I think the french are trying really hard to see things through Islamic eyes. Not just the politicians, but the entire population. The french don't believe in the anglosaxon version of multi-culti, but they came up with just as bad a solution, which is basically 'you Muslims will learn to speak french, and we will learn to respect Islam.


(I should be interested in Mandelbrot but i haven't studied fractals so far)
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 11, 2011, 11:59:10 AM
Yaakov, I think the french are trying really hard to see things through Islamic eyes. Not just the politicians, but the entire population. The french don't believe in the anglosaxon version of multi-culti, but they came up with just as bad a solution, which is basically 'you Muslims will learn to speak french, and we will learn to respect Islam.


Not true. The French people who really know Islam hate Islam because it goes completely against the values and principles that unite them. But, like every other country in the Western world, a lot of French people have been brainwashed by the educational system, by the media and by the politicians into thinking that Islam is a "religion of peace" and that it would be "racist" to criticize Islam. But things are changing. More and more French men and women are becoming aware of what Islam really is and are starting to come together against it.
Let's hope France will soon have another Charles Martel !
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Dr. Dan on November 11, 2011, 01:51:52 PM
France and other nations of the world that are not Israel are becoming increasing more dangerous for Jews to live in.  Idealistically, all Jews should at some point make aliyah to Israel.  That even includes me.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: syyuge on November 11, 2011, 08:11:18 PM
If the detailed letter is authentic, then it is very serious. Otherwise it is a gimmick arising out of some business rivalry.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: mord on November 12, 2011, 04:35:12 AM
If the detailed letter is authentic, then it is very serious. Otherwise it is a gimmick arising out of some business rivalry.
It's true just put any of the individual acts into the browser you will find it
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: syyuge on November 12, 2011, 06:02:31 AM
If the detailed letter is authentic, then it is very serious. Otherwise it is a gimmick arising out of some business rivalry.

It's true just put any of the individual acts into the browser you will find it

Thanx! As it is true so I prefer to curse the perpetrators of the crimes against the Jews.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: mord on November 12, 2011, 06:41:34 AM
Thanx! As it is true so I prefer to curse the perpetrators of the crimes against the Jews.
:laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on November 12, 2011, 07:21:40 PM
Yaakov Mendel lies and rewrites history (he also said that the French didn't murder Jews in the Holocaust...) because his wife is French.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Dr. Dan on November 12, 2011, 07:40:59 PM
Yaakov Mendel lies and rewrites history (he also said that the French didn't murder Jews in the Holocaust...) because his wife is French.

Ron what did we tell you about insulting members here?  Did you forget to take your medication?
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on November 12, 2011, 07:45:25 PM
Ron what did we tell you about insulting members here?  Did you forget to take your medication?

Yea, Yaakov denies the Holocaust of at least 76,000 French Jews and I need to sit idly? what are you tolerating, Dr. Dan?
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Lisa on November 12, 2011, 07:52:49 PM
Yea, Yaakov denies the Holocaust of at least 76,000 French Jews and I need to sit idly? what are you tolerating, Dr. Dan?

I don't think so.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Dr. Dan on November 12, 2011, 08:11:30 PM
Yea, Yaakov denies the Holocaust of at least 76,000 French Jews and I need to sit idly? what are you tolerating, Dr. Dan?

I would rather side with a Jew who is trying to improve himself than one who might be in your position and insulting and egotistical.  You have no right to insult the good members in this forum.  Wet have all said it a million times to you to debate and not to defame.  If you don't like it, don't post here anymore.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: maelgwyn on November 13, 2011, 04:59:13 AM
In the 1890s French churchmen were calling for the extermination of French Jews, then the Dreyfus Affair & fate of  French Jews in WW2! >:(
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 13, 2011, 06:39:54 AM
So now I'm called a Holocaust denier. Me, a Holocaust denier...I would never have thought that, one day, I would meet someone who would tell me that I am a Holocaust denier. This is so preposterous that I am speechless.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Dr. Dan on November 13, 2011, 08:18:48 AM
So now I'm called a Holocaust denier. Me, a Holocaust denier...I would never have thought that, one day, I would meet someone who would tell me that I am a Holocaust denier. This is so preposterous that I am speechless.


Yaacov, it's so comical for anyone to believe this about you speechless is the only thing to be.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 13, 2011, 08:33:55 AM
In the 1890s French churchmen were calling for the extermination of French Jews, then the Dreyfus Affair & fate of  French Jews in WW2! >:(

There has been Christian antisemitism in every Christian country, not specifically in France. Actually, the Church was more antisemitic in many other European countries, especially in Eastern Europe.
And, of course, not all churchmen were antisemites. My grandfather (as well as dozens of other Jews) was saved by a French Catholic priest during WWII, and if it wasn't for this Righteous Gentile, I wouldn't be here today.  

then the Dreyfus Affair

The Dreyfus Affair at the end of the nineteenth century literally torn France's society apart. A considerable proportion of the French population were outspoken supporters of Dreyfus, despite all the anti-Dreyfus propaganda by a few influential Jew-haters in the military and in the political circles. Without this popular support, Dreyfus would not have been rehabilitated a few years after his unfair conviction. Today, a big statue of Drefus stands in the middle of the highest military training college in France and Dreyfus (who was a very assimilated Jew by the way) is considered as a great patriotic hero by the French.

& fate of  French Jews in WW2! >:(

The Vichy regime is by no means representative of the French Republic. On the contrary, it was a momentary collapse of all the major principles and values on which the French institutions have been founded since 1789, brought about by a catastrophic military defeat. The Vichy regime did not represent France's nation, it was a creation of the German occupiers.
Only a small minority of French people actively collaborated with the Nazis. There were actions of resistance despite the fact that they were very difficult and dangerous in a country that was OCCUPIED BY THE NAZIS, and those who did this paid a very high price. Some villages who had protected Jews were destroyed and their entire population massacred. The rule was that when one German was killed, the Germans randomly murdered a hundred citizens. It took a lot of courage and even heroism to defend Jews in those circumstances.  And yet, approximately 75% OF FRENCH JEWRY WAS SAVED, Baruch Hashem. That is why France is today home to the third largest Jewish population in the world.
The vast majority of the French population were neither monsters nor heroes, they were ordinary people who were afraid and powerless and simply tried to survive. Most of them did not inform against Jews, but neither did they sacrifice themselves. Before you judge them, think honestly about what YOU would have done in their position, if you were not Jewish and if you had children. The real culprits were the members of the political and the military elite, who miserably failed in the battlefield against the Germans, much to the surprise of Hitler, who expected much more resistance, and then who participated in the criminal institutions that collaborated with the German Nazis.
The pillar of the French nation is not the tragic temporary episode of the Vichy regime, it is the French Revolution, which made Jews free and equal citizens.

And which nation or people can claim to have cared for European Jews during WWII anyway ? America, which did not even bother to bomb the railways leading to the death camps ? The judenrats in Israel who did not even want to save the lives of 600,000 Hungarian Jews in exchange for a few thousand trucks ? The British, who barred Jewish immigration in "Palestine" during the 1930s and sank ships of Shoah survivors ?  
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: maelgwyn on November 13, 2011, 11:07:44 AM
Iam not a french hater on the wall of my front room is historic pic of the railway coach where Marshall Foch signedthe German surrender on 11.11.1918.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 13, 2011, 11:42:01 AM
Iam not a french hater

I did not say that. By the way, you are absolutely entitled to hate the French - although sweeping generalizations about them would be silly. Personally, I don't hate them but I don't love them either. What I don't like about some of them is their tendency to be cowards and hypocrites. And I am obviously opposed to the policies pursued by French governments with respect to Israel. They want the Arab oil, the Arab contracts and the Arab votes in France.
But I respect French culture and the values and principles of the French Republic.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Lisa on November 13, 2011, 11:47:34 AM
I used to like some of the French cheeses, as well as brioche. 
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 13, 2011, 11:52:57 AM
I used to like some of the French cheeses, as well as brioche. 

Well I don't want to sound like the one who defends the French all the time but I'd like to add that, besides fine cuisine, France has also produced many of the brightest mathematicians and scientists of the last two centuries - a number of them being French Jews  ;D
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Secularbeliever on November 13, 2011, 12:12:52 PM
The pillar of the French nation is not the tragic temporary episode of the Vichy regime, it is the French Revolution, which made Jews free and equal citizens. <<

With all due respect, is the French Revolution something to be proud of?  Out of control people, murdering at random until the leader himself of the Revolution was murdered.  The reign of terror etc.  At least we got a good book out of it, Tale of Two Cities.

Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 13, 2011, 12:18:18 PM
The pillar of the French nation is not the tragic temporary episode of the Vichy regime, it is the French Revolution, which made Jews free and equal citizens. <<

With all due respect, is the French Revolution something to be proud of?  Out of control people, murdering at random until the leader himself of the Revolution was murdered.  The reign of terror etc.  At least we got a good book out of it, Tale of Two Cities.


There was a period of anarchy and chaos and, true, some insane killing was perpetrated during that time.
But I find the principles and the society put in place by this revolution respectable and, in any case, much better than the previous organization of society. As for Jews living in France, the French Revolution undeniably improved their condition a lot.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Dr. Dan on November 13, 2011, 01:07:45 PM
I have a tendency to think that France was better when Napolean was running things.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: syyuge on November 13, 2011, 01:12:33 PM
If Napolean had not fought against British and Russians, the history of the world would have been different.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 13, 2011, 01:27:07 PM
I have a tendency to think that France was better when Napolean was running things.

Napoleon restored order within France and modernized the country. But he betrayed the principles of 1789, ruled the country in a despotic way and waged imperialist wars against other European countries. That is why I have a negative perception of him.
As far as French Jews are concerned, they were not persecuted or discriminated against under Napoleon’s rule, but they were maintained under tight political control (as the rest of society) and they had to vow alliegeance. In return, they had substantial religious freedom and equal legal status with the other French citizens.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Dr. Dan on November 13, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
If Napolean had not fought against British and Russians, the history of the world would have been different.

that's the flaw of every nation which wants to create a Tower of Babel and a one world mentality.

The only reason why I preferred Napoloean in France's history is because Jews were not persecuted as much.  Then again, that isn't always a good thing.. Jews shouldn't live in the Galut.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Dr. Dan on November 13, 2011, 01:37:25 PM
Napoleon restored order within France and modernized the country. But he betrayed the principles of 1789, ruled the country in a despotic way and waged imperialist wars against other European countries. That is why I have a negative perception of him.
As far as French Jews are concerned, they were not persecuted or discriminated against under Napoleon’s rule, but they were maintained under tight political control (as the rest of society) and they had to vow alliegeance. In return, they had substantial religious freedom and equal legal status with the other French citizens.


It's a double edged sword, however, when Jews can live comfortably in the Galut.  By living comfortably, they eventually assimilate and become less Jewish.  By being persecuted, they either become self hating cowards or simply leave that country and hopefully to Israel which should be the ultimate goal of every Jew.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Spiraling Leopard on November 13, 2011, 01:42:15 PM
Well I don't want to sound like the one who defends the French all the time but I'd like to add that, besides fine cuisine, France has also produced many of the brightest mathematicians and scientists of the last two centuries - a number of them being French Jews  ;D

I thought they only ever only invented perfume.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 13, 2011, 01:59:45 PM
It's a double edged sword, however, when Jews can live comfortably in the Galut.  By living comfortably, they eventually assimilate and become less Jewish.  By being persecuted, they either become self hating cowards or simply leave that country and hopefully to Israel which should be the ultimate goal of every Jew.

I agree. The fact is that a majority of French Jews are very assimilated (the same is true, I think, of American Jews).
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 13, 2011, 02:09:44 PM
I thought they only ever only invented perfume.

Well, we all have gaps in our knowledge, don't we ?
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on November 13, 2011, 08:13:29 PM
The pillar of the French nation is not the tragic temporary episode of the Vichy regime, it is the French Revolution, which made Jews free and equal citizens. <<

With all due respect, is the French Revolution something to be proud of?  Out of control people, murdering at random until the leader himself of the Revolution was murdered.  The reign of terror etc.  At least we got a good book out of it, Tale of Two Cities.



Likewise, the emancipation of the French Jews did not magically erase french antisemitism (on the contrary, it probably contributed to intensifying it - as an exapmle the Dreyfus affair was a major boon to the zionist movement convincing many Jews that mixing in with host gentiles was an impossibility due to their inherent racism), but it did contribute to a massive wave of assimilation and loss of Jewish tradition, culture, and religion.  I think viewing it through the prism of "rights" and "liberties" misses the point in a major way.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: maelgwyn on November 13, 2011, 11:18:57 PM
P.Mendes-France, once said that in a national crisis anti-semitism & anglo phobia rear their heads!
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: maelgwyn on November 13, 2011, 11:45:16 PM
MORD, We dont have to look to far from home, as regard to anti-esemitsm 1910 and the riots in South Wales where Jews were beaten up by mobs!  France was probably the least anti-semitic country in Europe at that time! ZY GAZUNT! :'(
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yirmayahu on November 14, 2011, 12:26:15 AM
Frankly, I've never liked the French. I've known plenty of them and they ALL hated the US and the ALL talked about how much better it was living in France. I understand what is being said about it not being the French people's fault regarding the attacks, but they are tolerating these crimes and it doesn't seem that they are all too eager to bring the criminals to justice. But a boycott of France and French products is a valid idea.

Let's say that in a mall there is a store that is promoting illegal activity; a head shop is a good example. You can protest the head shop but you won't get far because the mall will kick you out for one thing. Second, the head shop brings in money to the mall so they are not eager to remove a store that is paying rent and such. The mall will come to the conclusion that the money brought in by the head shop is more than the money they would lose by a few people that will not come to head shop anymore. Now replace money with fear in the case of France. They've stupidly let in all of those sand heads and they're afraid of an insurrection if they crack down on the simian population. So they tolerate the violence of millions of savages visited upon a much lesser population of Jews. The only way for the French to take action is if it hits them in the pocketbook, and that means boycotting France and French products. Sort of like in boot camp when some idiot thinks that he can outsmart the drill sergeant. The other pleebs don't want to be informers so the sergeant takes the whole platoon on a twenty mile hike so that they learn where to place their unity and devotion; not in the rabble-rouser but in the correct authority. France needs to get a set of gotts like they once had and expel the Islamic scum. It will give them more respect around the world and offer protection of their own people as well as innocents that live there. I truly believe that if one of the bigger European nations, like France or Germany do this then all of Europe will follow suit. It is a smoldering fire that needs to fully alight and if the boycott of France is what starts that fire then let's go at it. Sure, the French people might suffer for a short while as they deport the Islamic scum, but in the long run it will help to restore them and revive them into a good and solid nation once more. Freedom has a price!
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Lisa on November 14, 2011, 11:46:56 PM
Just to add to Yirmayahu's post, don't forget poor Ilan Halimi, who was kidnapped, tortured, and murdered by Muslim savages in France.  True it wasn't done by native French people.  And I'm not saying all French are bad.  But they, like the other European countries like having these moosies around so they can do their anti-semitic dirty work for them. 

Yaakov, do you know what kind of punishment the people who tortured and murdered Ilan Halimi were sentenced to? 

On another more superficial note, I remember reading an article about by this American woman who had lived in France for several years in the NY Times.  In the article, she marveled at how much the French government "helped out" women after giving birth.  To get a bit more specific, she wrote about how she got this vaginal tightening treatment after the birth of her child for "free." 

Now is that ridiculous or what? 
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: JTFenthusiast2 on November 14, 2011, 11:51:52 PM
Yaacov, you know I love you as a fellow Jew in the struggle, but I have to disagree. The French have a huge amount of Jewish blood, pain, and suffering on their hands. 
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 15, 2011, 03:32:40 AM
Just to add to Yirmayahu's post, don't forget poor Ilan Halimi, who was kidnapped, tortured, and murdered by Muslim savages in France.  True it wasn't done by native French people.  And I'm not saying all French are bad.  But they, like the other European countries like having these moosies around so they can do their anti-semitic dirty work for them.  

With all due respect, I think there is paranoia in believing that a majority of French people rejoice in watching non-native thugs bully French Jews - the same Arab roaches also bully a lot of native non-Jews by the way. I am by no means saying this as a personal attack on you, I know a lot of American Jews think like you. A number of French may be cowards but they are not Jew-haters. They do not all love the Jews but they don't hate them either and they don't have the malicious intentions you think they have towards the Jews. The French have individualist, universalist and rationalist values, so there are aspects of Judaism that seem strange to them, but they have an open and tolerant society, and their institutions guarantee freedom and security for French Jews.
The two big problems are : 1) the immigration policies and the prevailing leftist, "anti-racist" ideology; 2) the anti-Israel policies pursued by French governments and the anti-Israel propaganda in the leftist media. These two problems are not specifically French, you find them in all Western countries, including the US.

Yaakov, do you know what kind of punishment the people who tortured and murdered Ilan Halimi were sentenced to?  

The gang's leader got life sentence. Personally, I think he deserves a death sentence but there is no death penalty in France. So what he got is the worst you can get in a French court.
The people who helped him got between 10 and 15 years.



On another more superficial note, I remember reading an article about by this American woman who had lived in France for several years in the NY Times.  In the article, she marveled at how much the French government "helped out" women after giving birth.  To get a bit more specific, she wrote about how she got this vaginal tightening treatment after the birth of her child for "free."  

Now is that ridiculous or what?  

I don't know about that.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 15, 2011, 03:51:07 AM
The French have a huge amount of Jewish blood, pain, and suffering on their hands.  

If you study the history of modern France (from 1789 onwards), you will see that what you are saying is not true. I am not going to repeat what I explained in a previous post in this thread about the occupation of France by the Nazis between 1940 and 1945. Apart from this tragic episode, where France was not France but a territory annexed by the Germans, the truth is that France has been one of the best Galut countries for the Jews. Jews have been free and equal citizens, they have not been discriminated against nor persecuted. France is nowhere near Poland or Russia. There never were pogroms under the French Republic. Jews were never barred from certain positions and trades under the French Republic. Jews could always practice the Jewish faith freely under the French Republic. Of course, there have always been French antisemites. They were the same ones who hated the French Republic and wanted to restore monarchy or were attracted to fascism in the 1930s. But they have always been a small fraction of the French population. Which Western nation NEVER had any Jew-haters ? If you look at the global picture, you will see that, indeed, on the whole, Jews have been very well treated in France since 1789, especially in comparison with other countries.
 
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: maelgwyn on November 15, 2011, 05:49:33 AM
NAP was a great man !
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Dr. Dan on November 15, 2011, 07:56:31 AM
If you study the history of modern France (from 1789 onwards), you will see that what you are saying is not true. I am not going to repeat what I explained in a previous post in this thread about the occupation of France by the Nazis between 1940 and 1945. Apart from this tragic episode, where France was not France but a territory annexed by the Germans, the truth is that France has been one of the best Galut countries for the Jews. Jews have been free and equal citizens, they have not been discriminated against nor persecuted. France is nowhere near Poland or Russia. There never were pogroms under the French Republic. Jews were never barred from certain positions and trades under the French Republic. Jews could always practice the Jewish faith freely under the French Republic. Of course, there have always been French antisemites. They were the same ones who hated the French Republic and wanted to restore monarchy or were attracted to fascism in the 1930s. But they have always been a small fraction of the French population. Which Western nation NEVER had any Jew-haters ? If you look at the global picture, you will see that, indeed, on the whole, Jews have been very well treated in France since 1789, especially in comparison with other countries.
 

And this is good because instead of physical pogroms there were spiritual pogroms to Jews? I'm sorry to say, America is no better in the same regard.
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 15, 2011, 08:30:20 AM
And this is good because instead of physical pogroms there were spiritual pogroms to Jews? I'm sorry to say, America is no better in the same regard.

I don't know if I would speak of spiritual pogroms. True, Jewish children who go to public schools are taught a number of un-Jewish principles. In particular, the French culture is wary about religions in general, including Judaism. Some Jewish concepts such as the chosen people, or collective responsibility, for example, are difficult to understand by the French because they are taught individualism and universalism.
But you can send your children to private Jewish schools if you want. You are not forced to send your children to the public educational system.
The only way to live a truly Jewish life is to go to Israel. That said, in Israel too, there are many "spiritual pogroms". A majority of Israelis don't know much about Torah Judaism and the non-religious schools in Israel teach Israeli children skepticism about Judaism. 
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Zelhar on November 15, 2011, 08:38:24 AM
I don't think french people are individualist and universalist. If they were individualist they wouldn't chose to live in a socialist centralistic and paternalistic state with high tax rate and heavy government intervention in the economy.

As for universalist, i think they may be, as long as the universe speaks french, cooks the french way, and f3s the french way.@”
Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on November 15, 2011, 09:17:18 AM
I don't think french people are individualist and universalist. If they were individualist they wouldn't chose to live in a socialist centralistic and paternalistic state with high tax rate and heavy government intervention in the economy.

As for universalist, i think they may be, as long as the universe speaks french, cooks the french way, and f3s the french way.@”

Yes, you have good points. I was referring to philosophical principles. I agree that reality is quite different. In effect, France has been declining for a long time and, in many respects, it is now only a pale reflection of a nation that used to be more brilliant. The French are depressed and, as such, depressing. Also, one of the things I don't like about them is their tendency to be hypocrites, so no wonder that there are gaps between what they preach and what they do.
There used to be quite a lot socialism and government intervention. The motto of the French Republic is : Liberty - Equality - Fraternity. The first priority is liberty, but equality comes second, hence the importance attached to redistribution of wealth. However, this is much less true today. Government intervention has been substantially reduced over the last twenty years. Taxes are not so high compared to other Western countries. They look very high because the figures include social security contributions. If you add social security contributions to taxes, you will see that US figures are not much lower.

Title: Re: One Day in the Life of a Jew in France
Post by: Dr. Dan on November 15, 2011, 09:24:14 AM
I don't know if I would speak of spiritual pogroms. True, Jewish children who go to public schools are taught a number of un-Jewish principles. In particular, the French culture is wary about religions in general, including Judaism. Some Jewish concepts such as the chosen people, or collective responsibility, for example, are difficult to understand by the French because they are taught individualism and universalism.
But you can send your children to private Jewish schools if you want. You are not forced to send your children to the public educational system.
The only way to live a truly Jewish life is to go to Israel. That said, in Israel too, there are many "spiritual pogroms". A majority of Israelis don't know much about Torah Judaism and the non-religious schools in Israel teach Israeli children skepticism about Judaism. 

However, by having a comfortable life in the Galut, Jews are less likely to do what's right and make Aliya to Israel which is what all Jews, including me, should do.