JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: NoMosqueHere on October 17, 2013, 02:46:12 PM
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I like Wilders very much but Le Pen concerns me, in large part due to her nazi father Jean-Marie Le Pen.
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/geert-wilders-and-marine-le-pen-may-join-forces/
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I like Wilders very much but Le Pen concerns me, in large part due to her nazi father Jean-Marie Le Pen.
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/geert-wilders-and-marine-le-pen-may-join-forces/
There we go again.... Le Pen is anti-racism and she turned the party another way. Geert Wilders should never ever work together with someone that is anti-semitic or anti-Israel. Great that this 2 fantastic people work together now. A real European frontline against the islamization!
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The JTF says its a sin for a Jew to live outside of Israel, but if Le Pen's father one's tried to ban the yarmulke we all have to shout and be mad. I don't think we should ban this in Europe... I only say it's hypocrite to say one thing but concern about the other.
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בס''ד
LePen is a Nazi Jew-hater. If Wilders does this, he will lose our support.
For purely tactical reasons, she is trying to change her party's Nazi image. She herself has admitted that this is just tactical.
To prove that she is a typical Jew-hater, she condemned the right of the Jews to settle in their own historic homeland. In an interview with the radical left newspaper Haaretz, she was asked about the relationship between Jewish settlers and some European parties. Here was her response:
"The shared concern about radical Islam explains the relationship ... but it is possible that behind it is also the need of the visitors from Europe to change their image in their countries ... As far as their partners in Israel are concerned, I myself don't understand the idea of continuing to develop the settlements. I consider it a political mistake and would like to make it clear in this context that we must have the right to criticize the policy of the State of Israel – just as we are allowed to criticize any sovereign country – without it being considered anti-Semitism. After all, the National Front has always been Zionistic and always defended Israel's right to exist".
This lying pig is hypernationalistic when it comes to France, but when Jews want to settle in their Biblical homeland, she is against it. In other words, the Jews are not allowed to be nationalistic or even do the minimum that is required to survive. She is super right-wing for France but when it comes to Israel, she suddenly becomes a leftist. This double standard applied to the Jews is always absolute proof of vicious anti-Semitism.
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How about Wilders front together with 'Vlaams Belang' with Filip de Winter? I know they got a lot of votes from the Jewish people in Antwerp, but Filip de Winter was against the Jewish people in his younger years... Now he work together with them.
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I think it would be a big miscalculation for Wilders to join forces with the Fascists and Nazis of Europe. He won't cleanse them, but their stench will stain his party. Right now he is almost a mainstream party in Holland with a shot of becoming premier or at least a senior partner in a ruling coalition.
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I think it would be a big miscalculation for Wilders to join forces with the Fascists and Nazis of Europe. He won't cleanse them, but their stench will stain his party. Right now he is almost a mainstream party in Holland with a shot of becoming premier or at least a senior partner in a ruling coalition.
Maybe I shouldn't care about the fate of France. But France is poised to be become a majority muslim country in a generation or two. And France has nuclear weapons, as well as other advanced military technology. A muslim dominated France will therefore pose an existential threat to Israel and the U.S. I don't like Marine Le Pen; she's a phony and hypocritical, and probably an anti semite. But who else in France is willing to take even moderate or tepid actions against the muslim invaders?
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Maybe I shouldn't care about the fate of France. But France is poised to be become a majority muslim country in a generation or two. And France has nuclear weapons, as well as other advanced military technology. A muslim dominated France will therefore pose an existential threat to Israel and the U.S. I don't like Marine Le Pen; she's a phony and hypocritical, and probably an anti semite. But who else in France is willing to take even moderate or tepid actions against the muslim invaders?
They need to start a new party (or perhaps there is one I haven't heard of). All that these no-fascists do is sabotage any chance for a real right wing party. They will never save France from being run over by Islamic immigration. Despite their sometime hostile rhetoric these are dumb Nazis and they are often willing to ally themselves with Islamonazis, I guess to join in against their favorite enemy- the Jews.
(http://www.lexpress.fr/medias/46/dieudonne-jean-marie-le-pen-front-national_466.jpg)
(http://static1.kleinezeitung.at/system/galleries_520x335/upload/0/2/3/2432019/libyen726ap0408.jpg)
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The JTF says its a sin for a Jew to live outside of Israel, but if Le Pen's father one's tried to ban the yarmulke we all have to shout and be mad. I don't think we should ban this in Europe... I only say it's hypocrite to say one thing but concern about the other.
Rather than shout and be mad, I would like to punch you in the face.
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I wouldn't support Marine Le Pen -- she is of Nazi lineage, it's in her blood, and if the shiite hit the fan she would probably side with the muslims over the jews. But the French leftists are just as bad, maybe worse, and the purported "moderates" or whatever the hell they are do nothing about the muslim invasion. French Jews should get the hell out of there.
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My view on Le Pen family is very positive. 8)
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Rather than shout and be mad, I would like to punch you in the face.
Bring it on. You are a lowlife peace of [censored]! I love to kick your coward ass up! You are a little hypocrite and you like to punch me in the face because you can't handle the truth.
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My view on Le Pen family is very positive. 8)
Thank you brother. The world is not only about Jews. (some of them on this forum think it is). I think Le Pen is the best leader French can have right now... Geert Wilders NEEDS a alliance to break through. I know some silly cry baby's on this forum have to cry and moaning about this but i think they don't know a lot about the situation in Europe. They all believe in a Israel for the Jews, Christmas threes should be banned, but if we ban religious Jewish clothes in French we are nazi's.... I'am getting pretty sick of this hypocrite rascist behaviour on this forum.
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I warned you guys about this atheist before. I know socialist who want to destroy Israel that can be honest about pisslam.
To Serbian army and Mentalita, you're out of your minds. If a political leader said we want to help Jews but Kosovo is great, I wouldn't trust him for a second. If someone hates Jews, you know that he's going to go after other unrighteous causes. And pappy Lepen is an outspoken Nazi. Here is the European equivilent of Ronnie and Randy Putz. They are both the same, but the youth understand how to get support for their insanity with lies.
As for people trusting the atheist Geert who wants to ban circumcision, as I've stated, these kinds of people are the reason why pisslam has gained power. They may turn around and realize it, but they attack it not for righteousness, but because they don't want to leave their evil path.
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Thank you brother. The world is not only about Jews. (some of them on this forum think it is). I think Le Pen is the best leader French can have right now... Geert Wilders NEEDS a alliance to break through. I know some silly cry baby's on this forum have to cry and moaning about this but i think they don't know a lot about the situation in Europe. They all believe in a Israel for the Jews, Christmas threes should be banned, but if we ban religious Jewish clothes in French we are nazi's.... I'am getting pretty sick of this hypocrite rascist behaviour on this forum.
So if that's how you feel, then why are you here?
Also, since this is a Jewish zionist forum, of course we're going to discuss issues in terms of how they affect Jews all over the world.
And since we believe that Israel is Jewish land, that doesn't mean we have to accept anti-semitism in other countries.
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I warned you guys about this atheist before. I know socialist who want to destroy Israel that can be honest about pisslam.
To Serbian army and Mentalita, you're out of your minds. If a political leader said we want to help Jews but Kosovo is great, I wouldn't trust him for a second. If someone hates Jews, you know that he's going to go after other unrighteous causes. And pappy Lepen is an outspoken Nazi. Here is the European equivilent of Ronnie and Randy Putz. They are both the same, but the youth understand how to get support for their insanity with lies.
As for people trusting the atheist Geert who wants to ban circumcision, as I've stated, these kinds of people are the reason why pisslam has gained power. They may turn around and realize it, but they attack it not for righteousness, but because they don't want to leave their evil path.
Geert Wilders is there for the DUTCH people! I don't give a [censored] atheist or not. The most important thing in the world is my people and my country. Isnt that normal?
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I warned you guys about this atheist before. I know socialist who want to destroy Israel that can be honest about pisslam.
To Serbian army and Mentalita, you're out of your minds. If a political leader said we want to help Jews but Kosovo is great, I wouldn't trust him for a second. If someone hates Jews, you know that he's going to go after other unrighteous causes. And pappy Lepen is an outspoken Nazi. Here is the European equivilent of Ronnie and Randy Putz. They are both the same, but the youth understand how to get support for their insanity with lies.
As for people trusting the atheist Geert who wants to ban circumcision, as I've stated, these kinds of people are the reason why pisslam has gained power. They may turn around and realize it, but they attack it not for righteousness, but because they don't want to leave their evil path.
Ok, but if not Geert Wilders, then who? Who else is there to work with in Europe? Wilders has said so many wonderful things about Israel, the Jewish people, and he has a realistic understanding of the Islamic menace. For example:
Wilders stated about Israel: "I have visited many interesting countries in the Middle East – from Syria to Egypt, from Tunisia to Turkey, from Cyprus to Iran – but nowhere did I have the special feeling of solidarity that I always get when I land at Ben Gurion International Airport."
Wilders told an audience during the report that "We [in the West] are all Israel". He has also said "Israel is the West's first line of defence" against what he perceives to be a threat posed by Islam.
Wilders said Jordan should be renamed Palestine.The Jordanian government responded saying Wilders' speech was reminiscent of the Israeli right wing. He also said Israel deserves a special status in the Dutch government because it was fighting for "Jerusalem" in its name.
He said: "If Jerusalem falls into the hands of the Muslims, Athens and Rome will be next. Thus, Jerusalem is the main front protecting the West. It is not a conflict over territory but rather an ideological battle, between the mentality of the liberated West and the ideology of Islamic barbarism. There has been an independent Palestinian state since 1946, and it is the kingdom of Jordan."
He called on the Dutch government to refer to Jordan as Palestine and move its embassy to Jerusalem.
He called the prophet Muhammad a "barbarian, a mass murderer, and a pedophile" and referred to Islam as a "fascist ideology" which was "violent, dangerous, and retarded". Wilders also reportedly called Turkish Prime Minister Erdoğan a "total freak".
In the spring of 2009, Wilders launched the "Facing Jihad World Tour", a series of screenings of Fitna to public officials and influential organizations around the globe, starting in Rome. In the United States, Wilders showed the film to the United States Congress on 26 February having been invited by Arizona Republican Senator Jon Kyl. Around 40 people attended the screening. American Muslims protested, to no avail. Wilders spoke at the Conservative Political Action Conference on 28 February. He appeared before the National Press Club and the Republican Jewish Coalition that week as well.
Wilders suggests that Muslims should "tear out half of the Koran if they wished to stay in the Netherlands" because it contains "terrible things" and that Muhammad would "... in these days be hunted down as a terrorist".
He believes that all Muslim immigration to the Netherlands should be halted and all settled immigrants should be paid to leave.Referring to the increased population of Muslims in the Netherlands, he has said:
Take a walk down the street and see where this is going. You no longer feel like you are living in your own country. There is a battle going on and we have to defend ourselves. Before you know it there will be more mosques than churches!
In a speech before the Dutch Parliament, he stated:
Islam is the Trojan Horse in Europe. If we do not stop Islamification now, Eurabia and Netherabia will just be a matter of time.
AND GET THIS: Wilders was extensively discussed in American diplomatic cables, released by WikiLeaks in December 2010. In a briefing to President Barack Obama, he was described as "no friend of the US: he opposes Dutch military involvement in Afghanistan; he believes development assistance is money wasted; he opposes NATO missions outside 'allied' territory; he is against most EU initiatives; and, most troubling, he foments fear and hatred of immigrants."
YOU REALLY THINK WILDERS IS A BAD GUY?????
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Ok, but if not Geert Wilders, then who? Who else is there to work with in Europe? Wilders has said so many wonderful things about Israel, the Jewish people, and he has a realistic understanding of the Islamic menace. For example:
Wilders stated about Israel: "I have visited many interesting countries in the Middle East – from Syria to Egypt, from Tunisia to Turkey, from Cyprus to Iran – but nowhere did I have the special feeling of solidarity that I always get when I land at Ben Gurion International Airport."
Wilders told an audience during the report that "We [in the West] are all Israel". He has also said "Israel is the West's first line of defence" against what he perceives to be a threat posed by Islam.
Wilders said Jordan should be renamed Palestine.The Jordanian government responded saying Wilders' speech was reminiscent of the Israeli right wing. He also said Israel deserves a special status in the Dutch government because it was fighting for "Jerusalem" in its name.
He said: "If Jerusalem falls into the hands of the Muslims, Athens and Rome will be next. Thus, Jerusalem is the main front protecting the West. It is not a conflict over territory but rather an ideological battle, between the mentality of the liberated West and the ideology of Islamic barbarism. There has been an independent Palestinian state since 1946, and it is the kingdom of Jordan."
He called on the Dutch government to refer to Jordan as Palestine and move its embassy to Jerusalem.
He said all kind of wonderfull things, but that doesnt matter anymore... He works together wit nazi's now.
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So if that's how you feel, then why are you here?
Also, since this is a Jewish zionist forum, of course we're going to discuss issues in terms of how they affect Jews all over the world.
And since we believe that Israel is Jewish land, that doesn't mean we have to accept anti-semitism in other countries.
It's a sin for a Jew to live outside of Israel... That are the words of JTF, not my words. So if Jews in French are not alout to walk around with a Yarmuke anymore, is that anti-semitism or do they deserve it as they are sinners like the JTF call them?
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Geert Wilders is there for the DUTCH people! I don't give a [censored] atheist or not. The most important thing in the world is my people and my country. Isnt that normal?
Yes, he says that. The point he is does what you're accusing us of. He's not fighting pisslam in support of the Dutch people because it's moral, he's doing it for selfish desires, like wanting to keep up the increasingly decadent and insane culture.
With a foundation of doing what benefits him, how can you know he'll stick to what is right, or even do things that are beneficial to the Dutch after he is given power?
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It's a sin for a Jew to live outside of Israel... That are the words of JTF, not my words. So if Jews in French are not alout to walk around with a Yarmuke anymore, is that anti-semitism or do they deserve it as they are sinners like the JTF call them?
It is absolutely a sin. Looks like there will be one less tourist destination, however.
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Geert Wilders said not long ago that he now likes to work together with the Front National of LePen as they took distance from any kind of anti-semitism... Isnt this enough?
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Yes, he says that. The point he is does what you're accusing us of. He's not fighting pisslam in support of the Dutch people because it's moral, he's doing it for selfish desires, like wanting to keep up the increasingly decadent and insane culture.
With a foundation of doing what benefits him, how can you know he'll stick to what is right, or even do things that are beneficial to the Dutch after he is given power?
He is men of the people. He stand for his believes and he realy want to change Holland.
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Ok, but if not Geert Wilders, then who? Who else is there to work with in Europe? Wilders has said so many wonderful things about Israel, the Jewish people, and he has a realistic understanding of the Islamic menace. For example:
Wilders stated about Israel: "I have visited many interesting countries in the Middle East – from Syria to Egypt, from Tunisia to Turkey, from Cyprus to Iran – but nowhere did I have the special feeling of solidarity that I always get when I land at Ben Gurion International Airport."
Wilders told an audience during the report that "We [in the West] are all Israel". He has also said "Israel is the West's first line of defence" against what he perceives to be a threat posed by Islam.
Wilders said Jordan should be renamed Palestine.The Jordanian government responded saying Wilders' speech was reminiscent of the Israeli right wing. He also said Israel deserves a special status in the Dutch government because it was fighting for "Jerusalem" in its name.
He said: "If Jerusalem falls into the hands of the Muslims, Athens and Rome will be next. Thus, Jerusalem is the main front protecting the West. It is not a conflict over territory but rather an ideological battle, between the mentality of the liberated West and the ideology of Islamic barbarism. There has been an independent Palestinian state since 1946, and it is the kingdom of Jordan."
He called on the Dutch government to refer to Jordan as Palestine and move its embassy to Jerusalem.
He called the prophet Muhammad a "barbarian, a mass murderer, and a pedophile" and referred to Islam as a "fascist ideology" which was "violent, dangerous, and retarded". Wilders also reportedly called Turkish Prime Minister Erdoğan a "total freak".
In the spring of 2009, Wilders launched the "Facing Jihad World Tour", a series of screenings of Fitna to public officials and influential organizations around the globe, starting in Rome. In the United States, Wilders showed the film to the United States Congress on 26 February having been invited by Arizona Republican Senator Jon Kyl. Around 40 people attended the screening. American Muslims protested, to no avail. Wilders spoke at the Conservative Political Action Conference on 28 February. He appeared before the National Press Club and the Republican Jewish Coalition that week as well.
Wilders suggests that Muslims should "tear out half of the Koran if they wished to stay in the Netherlands" because it contains "terrible things" and that Muhammad would "... in these days be hunted down as a terrorist".
He believes that all Muslim immigration to the Netherlands should be halted and all settled immigrants should be paid to leave.Referring to the increased population of Muslims in the Netherlands, he has said:
Take a walk down the street and see where this is going. You no longer feel like you are living in your own country. There is a battle going on and we have to defend ourselves. Before you know it there will be more mosques than churches!
In a speech before the Dutch Parliament, he stated:
Islam is the Trojan Horse in Europe. If we do not stop Islamification now, Eurabia and Netherabia will just be a matter of time.
AND GET THIS: Wilders was extensively discussed in American diplomatic cables, released by WikiLeaks in December 2010. In a briefing to President Barack Obama, he was described as "no friend of the US: he opposes Dutch military involvement in Afghanistan; he believes development assistance is money wasted; he opposes NATO missions outside 'allied' territory; he is against most EU initiatives; and, most troubling, he foments fear and hatred of immigrants."
YOU REALLY THINK WILDERS IS A BAD GUY?????
I never said he's a bad guy. There is nothing stopping him from becoming one, however, and now that he supports bad people, it's likely he will become one. His support of Israel is an attack on pisslam, not because he differentiates a Jew from a Bulgarian or has any special love for anyone.
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He is men of the people. He stand for his believes and he realy want to change Holland.
Geert Wilders said not long ago that he now likes to work together with the Front National of LePen as they took distance from any kind of anti-semitism... Isnt this enough?
If he actually believes that, then he doesn't have the wisdom to be a great leader.
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Bring it on. You are a lowlife peace of [censored]! I love to kick your coward ass up! You are a little hypocrite and you like to punch me in the face because you can't handle the truth.
No, it's because I don't like those who sympathize with nazis. The truth is that you sympathize with nazis and mock jtfers, so yes, I don't like that truth and would like to fight you.
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LKZ, excusse me... Geert Wilders HAS special love for the Jewish people. He visit Israel over a 50 times. His first wife was a Jew, his wife now is a Jew. Wilders loves the state of Israel and the Jewish people. Everybody know this and the far left hate him for this.
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No, it's because I don't like those who sympathize with nazis. The truth is that you sympathize with nazis and mock jtfers, so yes, I don't like that truth and would like to fight you.
I mock people like you with nazi behaviour. Nothing less. Go [censored] yourself coward. ;D
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It's a sin for a Jew to live outside of Israel... That are the words of JTF, not my words. So if Jews in French are not alout to walk around with a Yarmuke anymore, is that anti-semitism or do they deserve it as they are sinners like the JTF call them?
Lol so you think its the gentiles' job to punish Jews for sins they commit against God and that's your jus5ifica5ion for antisemitism? God doesn't need your help and he considers your intention to harm and discriminate against Jews as evil.
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Geert Wilders said not long ago that he now likes to work together with the Front National of LePen as they took distance from any kind of anti-semitism... Isnt this enough?
Enough for a mindless fool or a liar but some of us here have intelligence.
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בס''ד
super mentalita, I have had enough of your anti-Semitism. You really do belong with Le Pen.
You're banned.
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Bring it on. You are a lowlife peace of [censored]! I love to kick your coward ass up! You are a little hypocrite and you like to punch me in the face because you can't handle the truth.
I agree, and that is why I'm done here. He can insult and be as rude as he wants, woe to anyone else who ruffles feathers. He can say anything he wants: "go learn Torah" , "why don't you contribute something useful", He can call people names and insult there beliefs, but thats okay.
I know I'm far, far, from being a perfect person, but this place pisses me off to no end.
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No, it's because I don't like those who sympathize with nazis. The truth is that you sympathize with nazis and mock jtfers, so yes, I don't like that truth and would like to fight you.
Really, what about the rest of us you constantly insult?
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My view on Le Pen family is very positive. 8)
Should Serbian Army be banned too?
Generally, I disagree with banning individuals from the forums, unless they:
1. engage in illegal conduct;
2. make openly pro Nazi or Jihadist comments; or
3. otherwise pose a significant nuisance to the operations of the JTF website.
I don't think this test has been satisfied in order to ban Super Mentalita, so I respectfully dissent.
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Should Serbian Army be banned too?
Generally, I disagree with banning individuals from the forums, unless they:
1. engage in illegal conduct;
2. make openly pro Nazi or Jihadist comments; or
3. otherwise pose a significant nuisance to the operations of the JTF website.
I don't think this test has been satisfied in order to ban Super Mentalita, so I respectfully dissent.
בס''ד
Super Mentalita says we think the world is only for Jews, we only care about Jews, we are crybabies and racist hypocrites. Why? Because we will not accept alliances with Nazis like Le Pen whose father remains the "honorary leader" of National Front. She herself lectures Jews about how they are not allowed to live in their own homeland.
France surrendered to the German Nazis without fighting back even though they had a larger standing army than the Third Reich. Paris was occupied by the Germans without having to fire a single shot. The French then faithfully collaborated with the German occupiers.
It was the French Nazi police who rounded up hundreds of thousands of French Jewish men, women and children to send them to Auschwitz and the other Nazi death camps. The Germans did not have to round up French Jews to send them to the ovens and gas chambers, the French did it for them. With this monstrous history, the French have the chutzpah to tell the Jews not to live in their own homeland and to commit national suicide.
Super Mentalita hates when we mention the holocaust - he expects us to support those who murdered over 6 million Jews and who now want another holocaust against Israeli Jews. He has written that the German people were also victims of the Nazis and are not guilty of committing the holocaust.
We have a message for people like him: We will never forget and we will never forgive what happened to our brothers and sisters not just during the holocaust but during 2000 years of European crusades, inquisitions, pogroms, expulsions, forced conversions, mass rapes and other unspeakable atrocities. Those who do not completely condemn all of these crimes and the beasts who carried them out will never be forgiven by G-d. Furthermore, those who go against G-d's people in the Holy Land will face certain destruction. The Bible promises us that. If anyone thinks the Bible is bluffing, they are going to get a very big surprise if not in this world, then in the next.
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Thank you brother. The world is not only about Jews. (some of them on this forum think it is). I think Le Pen is the best leader French can have right now... Geert Wilders NEEDS a alliance to break through. I know some silly cry baby's on this forum have to cry and moaning about this but i think they don't know a lot about the situation in Europe. They all believe in a Israel for the Jews, Christmas threes should be banned, but if we ban religious Jewish clothes in French we are nazi's.... I'am getting pretty sick of this hypocrite rascist behaviour on this forum.
How could one European nationalist explain that he is proud of: his white heritage, his Christian faith, his European nationalism, his love for his country, his support for Israel and Jewish people?
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בס''ד
Super Mentalita says we think the world is only for Jews, we only care about Jews, we are crybabies and racist hypocrites. Why? Because we will not accept alliances with Nazis like Le Pen whose father remains the "honorary leader" of National Front. She herself lectures Jews about how they are not allowed to live in their own homeland.
France surrendered to the German Nazis without fighting back even though they had a larger standing army than the Third Reich. Paris was occupied by the Germans without having to fire a single shot. The French then faithfully collaborated with the German occupiers.
It was the French Nazi police who rounded up hundreds of thousands of French Jewish men, women and children to send them to Auschwitz and the other Nazi death camps. The Germans did not have to round up French Jews to send them to the ovens and gas chambers, the French did it for them. With this monstrous history, the French have the chutzpah to tell the Jews not to live in their own homeland and to commit national suicide.
Super Mentalita hates when we mention the holocaust - he expects us to support those who murdered over 6 million Jews and who now want another holocaust against Israeli Jews. He has written that the German people were also victims of the Nazis and are not guilty of committing the holocaust.
We have a message for people like him: We will never forget and we will never forgive what happened to our brothers and sisters not just during the holocaust but during 2000 years of European crusades, inquisitions, pogroms, expulsions, forced conversions, mass rapes and other unspeakable atrocities. Those who do not completely condemn all of these crimes and the beasts who carried them out will never be forgiven by G-d. Furthermore, those who go against G-d's people in the Holy Land will face certain destruction. The Bible promises us that. If anyone thinks the Bible is bluffing, they are going to get a very big surprise if not in this world, then in the next.
Should I abandon the idea about liberated Europe because all but few European countries bombed my beloved Serbia and destroyed every bridge on Danube, economy, murdered children? What we the Serbian nationalist should do in this situation? Holland is for now probably one of the worst enemies of my Serbia along with England. Should I hate Super Mantila and other members who live in these two countries? But if big countries like England fall how in the world can 6 million Serbs resist?
You know history, you know current politics and I asked burning questions on how we should approach the historical facts? Germans probably did more evil to the Serbs than to the Jews, at least when you look at numbers killed and converted..But I would hate to see them overrun by the muslims..
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I agree, and that is why I'm done here. He can insult and be as rude as he wants, woe to anyone else who ruffles feathers. He can say anything he wants: "go learn Torah" , "why don't you contribute something useful", He can call people names and insult there beliefs, but thats okay.
I know I'm far, far, from being a perfect person, but this place pisses me off to no end.
You're being ridiculous. Muman said he was going to search archives of all my posts on JTF ( to show some supposed character flaw he is accusing me of). And I replied that his time is better spent learning instead, and that's "rude?"
But it's not rude to call me a snake. Come on. Let's be adults please.
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I agree, and that is why I'm done here. He can insult and be as rude as he wants, woe to anyone else who ruffles feathers. He can say anything he wants: "go learn Torah" , "why don't you contribute something useful", He can call people names and insult there beliefs, but thats okay.
I know I'm far, far, from being a perfect person, but this place pisses me off to no end.
It is unfair for you to refer to challenging your beliefs as "insulting your beliefs." This is a discussion forum. Why would you expect beliefs not to be challenged?
.especially if some of the things you say are not consistent with Jewish belief (to no fault of your own) but you purport to be speaking in the name of torah, of course I'm going to express disagreement. We need to communicate like adults. Period.
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Should Serbian Army be banned too?
Generally, I disagree with banning individuals from the forums, unless they:
1. engage in illegal conduct;
2. make openly pro Nazi or Jihadist comments; or
3. otherwise pose a significant nuisance to the operations of the JTF website.
I don't think this test has been satisfied in order to ban Super Mentalita, so I respectfully dissent.
He very clearly fulfilled #2 and was rightfully banned.
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You know history, you know current politics and I asked burning questions on how we should approach the historical facts? Germans probably did more evil to the Serbs than to the Jews, at least when you look at numbers killed and converted..But I would hate to see them overrun by the muslims..
That is historical revisionism.
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This is from Wikipedia. Keep in mind that this was done by the Croats, not the Germans. Just in Poland alone, I think more Jews were murdered by the Nazis than Serbs.
The World War II persecution of Serbs, also known as Serbian Genocide,[8][9][10] refers to the widespread persecution of Serbs that included extermination, expulsions and forced religious conversions of large numbers of ethnic Serbs by the Ustaše regime in the Independent State of Croatia, and killings of Serbs by Albanian collaborationists and Axis occupying forces during World War II.
The numbers of Serbs persecuted by the Ustaše were very large, but the exact extent is the subject of much debate and estimates vary widely. Yad Vashem estimates over 500,000 murdered, 250,000 expelled and 200,000 forcibly converted to Catholicism.[11] The estimate of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum is that the Ustaša authorities murdered between 320,000 and 340,000 ethnic Serb residents of Croatia and Bosnia during the period of Ustaše rule, out of which between 45,000 and 52,000 were murdered in the Jasenovac concentration camp.[12]
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Serbian Army,
The German Nazis certainly hated the Serbs and other Slavic people. However, they hated Jews the most. To them the Jews were sub-human parasites and a completely inferior race. The bottom line is that they didn't want any Jews, or Judaism to exist.
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Should I abandon the idea about liberated Europe because all but few European countries bombed my beloved Serbia and destroyed every bridge on Danube, economy, murdered children? What we the Serbian nationalist should do in this situation? Holland is for now probably one of the worst enemies of my Serbia along with England. Should I hate Super Mantila and other members who live in these two countries? But if big countries like England fall how in the world can 6 million Serbs resist?
You know history, you know current politics and I asked burning questions on how we should approach the historical facts? Germans probably did more evil to the Serbs than to the Jews, at least when you look at numbers killed and converted..But I would hate to see them overrun by the muslims..
Honestly dude, I don't know of a single country in Europe that isn't cursed but Serbia. You should probably abandon the idea of a liberated Europe and replace it with a Serbia that rules whatever's left.
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בס''ד
super mentalita, I have had enough of your anti-Semitism. You really do belong with Le Pen.
You're banned.
My thoughts precisely. That's like the billionth time he says "all you care about is Jews". He obviously noticed the campaigns in America. All he cares about is Nazis, which i don't believe he believes exist.
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I'd vote for what passes out of my anus before I'd vote for the butch bulldyke Marine LePen*s, and if Wilders wants to ally himself with "her" he is as bad as she is.
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That is historical revisionism.
It is normal that I know more about history of my people than you. So I will tell that the Germans did not start killing the Serbs by the hundreds of thousands and Jews for that matter, just there were far less Jews in what is today Germany, in WWII.
Please pull up statistics from WWI and see that one third of the Serbs died fighting German invasion...
And that is not all....Germans wiped out millions of Serbs in East Germany. Once upon the time we had an empire in that region called White Serbia or Bojka. Some Serbs were lucky to move to Balkans and created Serbia of today. Millions of Serbs were Germanized or killed. Only 100.000 Lusatian Sorbs managed to survive to present day.
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It is normal that I know more about history of my people than you. So I will tell that the Germans did not start killing the Serbs by the hundreds of thousands and Jews for that matter, just there were far less Jews in what is today Germany, in WWII.
Please pull up statistics from WWI and see that one third of the Serbs died fighting German invasion...
And that is not all....Germans wiped out millions of Serbs in East Germany. Once upon the time we had an empire in that region called White Serbia or Bojka. Some Serbs were lucky to move to Balkans and created Serbia of today. Millions of Serbs were Germanized or killed. Only 100.000 Lusatian Sorbs managed to survive to present day.
We were talking about the Holocaust, not World War I or Communist East Germany. The Russians also killed millions of people and were allied with East Germany. Yugoslavia was a Communist puppet state of your beloved Russia. If you are going to count the number of Serbs killed throughout History, than we should also count all the Jews killed in 2,000 years by the Romans, Crusaders, Russian Czarist pogroms, and countless other atrocities carried out during the 2,000 year exile. Most of this was carried out by Slavs for many years (The Polish helped the Nazis and the Ukrainians carried out a pogrom from 1648-1649 called Tach VeTat in Hebrew. I don't know how to spell the name of the Ukrainian butcher.).
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It is normal that I know more about history of my people than you. So I will tell that the Germans did not start killing the Serbs by the hundreds of thousands and Jews for that matter, just there were far less Jews in what is today Germany, in WWII.
Please pull up statistics from WWI and see that one third of the Serbs died fighting German invasion...
And that is not all....Germans wiped out millions of Serbs in East Germany. Once upon the time we had an empire in that region called White Serbia or Bojka. Some Serbs were lucky to move to Balkans and created Serbia of today. Millions of Serbs were Germanized or killed. Only 100.000 Lusatian Sorbs managed to survive to present day.
Of course the German Nazis and their Croat and Muslim allies hated the Serbs and murdered huge numbers of them. But the Holocaust specifically targeted the entire Jewish nation for extermination, first and foremost.
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We were talking about the Holocaust, not World War I or Communist East Germany. The Russians also killed millions of people and were allied with East Germany. Yugoslavia was a Communist puppet state of your beloved Russia. If you are going to count the number of Serbs killed throughout History, than we should also count all the Jews killed in 2,000 years by the Romans, Crusaders, Russian Czarist pogroms, and countless other atrocities carried out during the 2,000 year exile. Most of this was carried out by Slavs for many years (The Polish helped the Nazis and the riots around 1700 C.E. called Tat VeTat in Hebrew in Ukraine. I don't know how to spell the name of the Ukrainian butcher.).
When you are going to learn that Yugoslavia I and II were not Russian satelite states?
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This is the Ukrainian Slavic pogrom I was referring to.
The Khmelnytsky Uprising (also known as the Khmel'nyts'kyi/Chmielnicki Uprising) was a Cossack rebellion in Ukraine between the years 1648–1657 which turned into a Ukrainian war of liberation from Poland. Under the command of Hetman Bohdan Khmelnytsky, the Zaporozhian Cossacks allied with the Crimean Tatars, and the local peasantry, fought several battles against the armies and paramilitary forces of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. The result was an eradication of the control of the Polish szlachta and their Jewish intermediaries, and the end of ecclesiastical jurisdiction for the Latin Rite Catholics (as well as Karaites, and other arendators) over the country. The Uprising has taken on a symbolic meaning in the story of Ukraine's relationship with Russia. It resulted in the incorporation of eastern Ukraine into the Tsardom of Muscovy at the Pereiaslav Agreement, where the Cossacks swore an oath of allegiance to the tsar. This, according to the poet and artist, Taras Shevchenko, brought about his people's 'enslavement' under Russia.[1]
The Uprising started as the rebellion of the Cossacks, but as other Orthodox Christian classes (peasants, burghers, petty nobility) of the Ukrainian palatinates joined them, the ultimate aim became a creation of Ukrainian autonomous state.[2] The Uprising succeeded in ending the Polish influence over those Cossack lands that were eventually taken by the Tsardom of Russia . These events, along with internal conflicts and hostilities with Sweden and Russia, resulted in severely diminished Polish power during this period (referred to in Polish history as The Deluge). The failure of the Cossacks to consolidate their victory led to the Ruin (Ukrainian history).
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Jews
Most Jewish Ukrainian communities were devastated by the uprising and ensuing massacres, though occasionally a Jewish population was spared, notably after the sack of the town of Brody (the population of which was 70% Jewish). The Jews of Brody were judged and "deemed as not engaged in maltreatment of the Ruthenians" and were instead required to pay a tribute in "textiles and furs".[12]
The uprising also led to a decree on July 3, 1661, at the Council of Vilna in which Jewish elders banned merrymaking, including the setting of limitations on wedding celebrations, public drinking, fire dances, masquerades and Jewish comic entertainers.[13] Stories about massacre victims who had been buried alive, cut to pieces or forced to kill one another spread throughout Europe and beyond. These stories filled many with despair, and resulted in a revival of the ideas of Isaac Luria, and the identification of Sabbatai Zevi as the Messiah.[14]
The entire Jewish population of the Commonwealth in that period (1618–1717) has been estimated to have been about 200,000.[15] Most Jews lived outside Ukraine in the territories unaffected by the uprising, as the Jewish population of Ukraine of that period is estimated at about 50,000.[16]
The accounts of contemporaneous Jewish chroniclers of the events tended to emphasize large casualty figures, but they have been re-evaluated downwards at the end the 20th century, when modern historiographic methods, particularly from the realm of historical demography, became more widely adopted.[9] According to Orest Subtelny:
Weinryb cites the calculations of S. Ettinger indicating that about 50,000 Jews lived in the area where the uprising occurred. See B. Weinryb, "The Hebrew Chronicles on Bohdan Khmelnytsky and the Cossack-Polish War", Harvard Ukrainian Studies 1 (1977): 153-77. While many of them were killed, Jewish losses did not reach the hair-raising figures that are often associated with the uprising. In the words of Weinryb ("The Jews of Poland", 193-4), "The fragmentary information of the period—and to a great extent information from subsequent years, including reports of recovery—clearly indicate that the catastrophe may have not been as great as has been assumed."[17]
Early 20th-century estimates of Jewish deaths were based on the accounts of the Jewish chroniclers of the time, and tended to be high, ranging from 100,000 to 500,000 or more; in 1916 Simon Dubnow stated:
The losses inflicted on the Jews of Poland during the fatal decade 1648-1658 were appalling. In the reports of the chroniclers, the number of Jewish victims varies between one hundred thousand and five hundred thousand. But even if we accept the lower figure, the number of victims still remains colossal, even exceeding the catastrophes of the Crusades and the Black Death in Western Europe. Some seven hundred Jewish communities in Poland had suffered massacre and pillage. In the Ukrainian cities situated on the left banks of the Dnieper, the region populated by Cossacks... the Jewish communities had disappeared almost completely. In the localities on the right shore of the Dneiper or in the Polish part of the Ukraine as well as those of Volhynia and Podolia, wherever Cossacks had made their appearance, only about one tenth of the Jewish population survived.[18]
From the 1960s to the 1980s historians still considered 100,000 a reasonable estimate of the Jews killed and, according to Edward Flannery, many considered it "a minimum".[19] Max Dimont in Jews, God, and History, first published in 1962, writes "Perhaps as many as 100,000 Jews perished in the decade of this revolution." [20] Edward Flannery, writing in The Anguish of the Jews: Twenty-Three Centuries of Antisemitism, first published in 1965, also gives figures of 100,000 to 500,000, stating "Many historians consider the second figure exaggerated and the first a minimum".[19] Martin Gilbert in his Jewish History Atlas published in 1976 states "Over 100,000 Jews were killed; many more were tortured or ill-treated, others fled..."[21] Many other sources of the time give similar figures.[22]
Although many modern sources still give estimates of Jews killed in the uprising at 100,000[23] or more,[24] others put the numbers killed at between 40,000 and 100,000,[25] and recent academic studies have argued fatalities were even lower.
A 2003 study by Israeli demographer Shaul Stampfer of Hebrew University dedicated solely to the issue of Jewish casualties in the uprising concludes that 18,000-20,000 Jews were killed out of a total population of 40,000.[26] Paul Robert Magocsi states that Jewish chroniclers of the 17th century "provide invariably inflated figures with respect to the loss of life among the Jewish population of Ukraine. The numbers range from 60,000-80,000 (Nathan Hannover) to 100,000 (Sabbatai Cohen), but that "[t]he Israeli scholars Shmuel Ettinger and Bernard D. Weinryb speak instead of the 'annihilation of tens of thousands of Jewish lives', and the Ukrainian-American historian Jarowlaw Pelenski narrows the number of Jewish deaths to between 6,000 and 14,000".[27] Orest Subtelny concludes:
Between 1648 and 1656, tens of thousands of Jews—given the lack of reliable data, it is impossible to establish more accurate figures—were killed by the rebels, and to this day the Khmelnytsky uprising is considered by Jews to be one of the most traumatic events in their history.[17]
In the two decades following the uprising the Commonwealth suffered two more major wars (The Deluge and Russo-Polish War (1654–1667); during that period total Jewish casualties are estimated as at least 100,000.[10]
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Very well written articles...Polish Catholics lost control over Orthodox Kozaci..text states that the Jews were in Polish army fighting the Kozaci..all the Jews but those in city of Brody..now think for the moment that Kozaci wanted liberation for many years..after the liberation from Polish rule Kozaci took terrible revange on the Jews..same thing happened to the muslims after the Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, Macedonians, Montenegrians, liberated their land from the Ottomans..local muslim population that sided with Ottomas suffered greatly..what Jews went through is horrible but my point is that Kozaci did not kill them out of hate just because they are Jews but because they sided with occupiers..had the Jews sided with Kozaci not a single Jew would have been killed..it was after all the war in which the Jews fought and paid terrible price..this is how I look on it..now I am ready for many insults
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I have related several times the story of the Massacre of Uman in Ukraine, a famous pogrom of the 18th century...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Uman
Massacre of Uman
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Massacre of Uman was the 1768 massacre of the Jews, Poles and Ukrainian Uniates at Uman in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by the Ukrainian rebel Haidamak army.
Uman was a well-fortified town that held a large garrison part of Polish troops. This fact made Uman one of the primary targets of Koliyivschyna movement, and, probably, the siege of Uman was planned well in advance. Ivan Gonta, an officer in the private militia of Count Franciszek Salezy Potocki (composed of Registered Cossacks) was accused of connections with haidamakas by local Jewish community three months before the siege; however, due to the lack of hard evidence and the sudden death of a star witness on his road to Uman no formal charges were made. Although Ivan Gonta was de facto the commander of Uman cossacks he was not the most senior in their ranks.
In early June 1768 the Ukrainian rebels under the command of Maksym Zalizniak marched on Uman after capturing Cherkasy, Korsun and Kaniv. As Zalizniak openly encouraged the slaughter of Jews and Poles, the town was filled with refugees. A large camp filled with Polish nobility and their private militia, regular soldiers and Jewish refugees was stationed outside the city walls. Polish troops outnumbered the forces of rebels, and therefore it was decided that some of the forces should guard the ramparts while Gonta with his cossack unit would meet the Haidamakas in open battle. However, when Gonta met Zalizniak's units he openly declared that he is going to join Koliyivschyna. Some sources claim that the formal commanders of the unit were sent back to Uman, although the authenticity of the story is highly disputed.
The united troops razed the encampment on June 14 and tried to penetrate the ramparts by concealing the rebels behind the backs of Gonta's Registered Cossacks. However, the attempt failed, and so the siege started on June 17. The very first day large number of Ukrainians deserted the ranks of Polish forces and joined the rebels when the city was surrounded.
After three days of the siege the city fell to Zalizniak in spite of a courageous defense in which the Jews also played an active role. The tragic event occurred after the betrayal of commandant Mladanovitch, who wanted to buy the lives of Poles betraying Jews to Zaliznak and Gonta. This evolved into the violent and bloody massacre (where Mladanovitch was himself killed). The Jews then gathered in the synagogues, where they were led by Leib Shargorodski and Moses Menaker in an attempt to defend themselves, but they were destroyed by cannon fire. Most of the remaining Jews in the city were subsequently killed. According to earlier estimates the number of Poles and Jews massacred was 20,000.[1] The estimate given by Gonta for self-embellishment during his trial was 33,000. These numbers are considered exaggerated by the modern historyography, with numbers of Poles and Jews who were killed in the “massacre of Uman” estimated at ca. 2,000.[2]