Too bad we cannot execute zonot like this anymore.. Any Jewish woman who marries a goyim and then condemns her felllow Jews should be stoned to death or have a sword (or bullet) plunged into her heart.
Once again, we can learn things from the Muslims.. If a muslim woman marries a Jewish man and ends up hating her own Muslim people she will have a rope tied around her neck and lifted up 100 ft in an air with a crane so everyone can watch her scream and struggle until her last breath, while they celebrate and cheer.
Unfortunately, we will just feel sorry for her and hate ourselves , turning her into some hero and victim over the matter.
Bro I thin you might be kinda twisted. In case you don't know, speaking lashon hara is a major factor in your zivug being kept from you.
Lashon hara against who? This filthy zona who married a black muslim and curses her own race??
Once again, I never said I am a good Jew, I always do bad things like this.. I guess I should be the one hung on the crane, not her..
If me speaking out against this means I will not have my zivug, than so be it.. In all honesty, though, my lack of income sadly I feel is the bigger reason, as I know some real pr1cks who beat up their wives and talk down on women and still have a zivug.
My intentions are for protecting the Jewish people. If our women behave like harlots and marry muslims, our race is screwed.
Don't play the *mem tet*. She is everything you say, but don't wish these things on her or even say Hashem will punish her or he will, but you will come first. I know what your intentions seem to be and what your tactics do. For all Nobody sides with those who wish horrible deaths on each other.
Both your income and zivug come from Hashem and you would get them if Hashem wanted you to have them.
If you don't speak out, then it's like you did it. If you wish horrible deaths on others, not only will your message be ignored, it will cause people to turn away. Enough with the self-hating. There's two kinds of humility, and the self-hating one is an insidious form of pride, because you think you deserve more and are essentially angry at what Hashem gave to you and does to you. Any suffering you are thankful for won't correct anything. You're saying Hashem didn't give you what you needed to live in this temporary world. Someone who gets angry has no emunah in Hashem, because you don't believe that Hashem is doing it to you or controls the world even 1%. Life's a [censored], learn to [censored] it.
Also, if you're willing to give up your wife, don't fault a woman for wanting a husband however she can get it.
Sorry LKZ, we are going to have to part ways here.. I do think you say many great and inspiring things and really am thankful for the good help and advice you gave me in the previous thread. However, I do not share your beliefs on this issue, nor do I believe you have any right to judge my intentions for calling for her execution.
First of all, I have no desire or simcha to see her dead.. As a matter of fact, I would not mind wearing ash and sackcloth. What has become of Am Yisrael that are daughters play the harlot and marry evil goyim who hate our race and they, themselves, hate our race? She is not a Jew anymore in my eyes, so I also do not believe I am calling for the death of a Jew. She is Chilul Hashem and has become a traitor to our race. Did not King David call for the execution of those Jewish men who betrayed their race?
And, if all we do is sit back on our chairs and say Hashem will punish him or her, we will end up having a society of heretics and a community with no discipline, morals or respect. Even Torah says if a woman is raped in the city and does not cry for help, she should be put to death. Now, I am considered in the wrong because I feel a woman who cursed her own race and is sleeping with our arch-enemy is worthy of death?
If you want to condemn me and say I am no longer a Jew for my condemnation for her, then go ahead. If she gets to be the Jew and me the traitor, the heathen, the wicked one, then so be it!! If calling for the defense of Jewish race against whoredom and allowing our daughters to sleep with Muslim men is Yetzer Hara, then let me be the one who is committing Yetzer Hara! Perhaps, I just don't have what it takes to be a Jew anymore, because I cannot sleep at night knowing that we just sit , back let our daughters marrying Muslim men and do no nothing. I feel like we are being cowards and fools. Yet, then Chaim will post a heated, emotional article about this Jewish woman marrying a black MUslim man and just cannot understand why it's happening. If you want less articles like this posted on JTF/HaYamin then I do believe my advice is effective.
It is you who is speaking lashon hara to me, by the way. You say I would enjoy seeing this woman die.. How dare you! As a matter of fact, I think her death is needed to protect the Jewish race from its enemies. It is not the gas chambers that are going to end up destroying our race, but we Jews who end up hating our own religion and marrying our enemies that are more likely to cause the extinction of the Jewish people and religion.
Wtf? When did I say that? Pretty sure you're trolling me now, but I strongly suspected it from your previous posts. Lots of things are chilul Hashem. For example, if you don't take a bath and stink, it's the worst sin from the Torah, because now every goy that saw will say that Jews stink. Also, if you wish torturous deaths on people, it's bad.
OK though, Ghandi, what exactly are you doing to help your people stop intermarrying? You're wishing death on those who do? Why don't Rabbis do that if it's so righteous and helps so much? Oh I know. It's twisted.
So anyways, lets imagine the world with you in power. You're going to make a bloodbath, and then problems will be solved? No one would marry a Jewish man after that.
I've counted three retard straw man accusations, and I'm not going to keep picking your lunatic message apart, because it's clear that this is not honest, you're trolling, and anyone can see that you're completely doing this on purpose.
Someone who was told Judaism is evil and a lie their whole life. They became like a goy and married one. You think the solution is murder? I would bet big money you're not a Jew. No Jew I've met has such a rotten soul.
Now who is speaking lashon hara? Come meet me face to face and tell me I am not a Jew so I can set your punk [censored] straight. I'm not afraid to die for my beliefs I hope you are not either u schmuck. My grandmother is from the village of schdryn Belarus which was exterminated by the Nazis. Let me know when you want to meet so you can call me a goy to my face. I'm sick of people like you.
If Jewish woman marries our enemy she must die since her children will grow up to hate and fight our race. I would never think the same if a Jewish woman married a Buddhist or pro Jewish christian.
F u u ahole!
I'm done here on JTF I cannot deal with anymore self hating sh1ts like this chozer LKZ.
I don't think this is that rare. There is no shortage of Sfaradim/Mizrachim who identify with the turd-world because they are "nonwhite".
I do not really understand why what EJA44 said is so wrong.
While today we do not do like he suggested the Torah clearly says that during the time of Moses the great Pinchas Ben Elazar Ben Aaron acted zealously and ran a spear through Cosbi and Zimri for having a forbidden relationship before the tent of Moses and the entire people. It was a Chillul Hashem and Pinchas's zealotry was rewarded by Hashem.
Of course this does not condone doing this today without the proper intentions and without a system of justice. We do not take law into our own hands...
??? No, not at all. Not at all.
You're kidding, right? Clearly, his intentions are not to sanctify G-d's name, and to give you the psychological explanation of why he wants this would be lashon hara. Pinhas made that kiddush Hashem while you could be executed for not keeping shabbos. He doesn't want to promote Yiddishkeit. He even alluded to what he thinks his reason for wanting this is. He said "our race is finished". It's all vanity. He doesn't care that Hashem forbade intermarriage on mount Sinai, he thinks if we would only be a proud "race", then we'd be fine.LKZ, you are full of drek.. I said I wasn't going to post here anymore, but I guess I feel obliged to make one or two more posts to set things straight. This a**wipe, LKZ, who called me a goyim and spits on the graves of my Jewish ancestors, in the process, has some nerve to pull facts out of his a** and totally make up a bunch of bulldrek, making false, lying claims about statements I didn't even say.
LKZ, you are full of drek.. I said I wasn't going to post here anymore, but I guess I feel obliged to make one or two more posts to set things straight. This a**wipe, LKZ, who called me a goyim and spits on the graves of my Jewish ancestors, in the process, has some nerve to pull facts out of his a** and totally make up a bunch of bulldrek, making false, lying claims about statements I didn't even say.
First of all, I am not against intermarriage. I think it is not desirable, but I can fully understand why people do it. What I am against is Jewish people marrying their enemy race/religion, especially the women, who under Islamic law, will have Muslim children, as the fathers will never allow them to practice Judaism. These children will be raised to hate the Jewish people. I met an Palestinian guy once whose mother was Israeli Jew and he told me his Jewish mother is a dirty whore and that his father beats her and punishes her and raised him to hate his mother. He says he thinks of his Arab mother as his true mother. This is the product of harlotry and treason!
You are bloods*cking snake, that is what you are.. You are exactly why I am sick of my own people and feel like I should just go my own way, leave my synagogue, leave this forum. You are just here to make yourself look high, mighty and holy and insult and spit on your fellow JEw, because he has a different opinion about an issue than yourself. So, typical. I hope you feel proud of yourself. Like, I said, any time , any place you want to call me a goyim, you are welcome to meet me. Unlike that filthy whore you are defending who hates her own Jewish race and is screwing a black Muslim who is freeloading off of the Israeli people, I love and care for my race.
BTW, I do believe both the Black Muslim and the Judenratt Traitor Whore should be put to death. BTW, I never advocated that I or anyone else kill her. I think she should be tried and put to death by the Israeli/Jewish government by firing squad, hanging or a sword through her gut or throat. A quick and painless death.
Go ahead and spew your lies and hatred to me, you are nothing but a Judenratt in my eyes. You spit and hate on me but defend this harlot who has committed Yetzer Hara and seeks to bring the destruction of the Jewish race.
By the way, I am Ashkenazi by heritage, so anyone who hates me and my ancestors is my enemy and I will have no mercy on them when they make war on that heritage. Are you an Ashkenazi?? I identify with Mizrachi, on minhag and on a spiritual level, but I am still Ashkenazi blood.. This scum sucking b*tch can burn and rot for [censored] on Ashkenazism , first and second for f*cking and marrying an African Islamist from one of our enemy nations, Sudan.
Go jump up and down you scumbag and celebrate all your insults and mockery of me... Hope it makes you feel happy about yourself. A lot of Jews get such satisfaction about insulting Jews who they don't agree with or follow their customs.
Unlike you, I take no pleasure and have no joy in looking down or speaking out against the injustices I have encountered or have seen in the Jewish community. Unlike you, I do believe every Jewish soul is precious and sacred. Even that skanky college ho , screwing guys , eating pork, dressing slutty at shul/kehillot, I still pray and hope for her to make teshuva and that she can become a holy , righteous daughter. My cousin Elisa Hanna , who was a biker chick, shooting up smack, ended up making such teshuva and now is a married Chassid in Brooklyn with 12+ children. You don't know drek about me, buddy.
And, yes, I fall short from being righteous. I never once claimed to be righteous.. However, I would like those who do claim to be righteous, such as the Chabad and their rabbis, to try to live up to these claims. These are the people I must look up to and learn from and seek for help when I wish to become more shomer. I don't know which verse of Torah to quote, but I will make a point, if the holy priests, teachers, sages of our holiest places are corrupt, the core of our people will decay. This is why we suffered a defeat and our people and holy places were carried off to Babylon. If I see that those who claim to be shomer and live holy Jewish lives are committing evil and dismissing and overlooking atrocities committed in G-d's Sanctuary, I just cannot shut my mouth and do nothing for the sake of hurting people's feelings or being deemed judgmental.
Anyway , I have shared my piece. Good bye to JTF, one less crazy person. Now, you sane people who call black people apes, talk about gassing muslims and arabs and make all type of bigoted statements and conspiracy theories about liberal American politicians can be rid of the crazy guy! Hey, I don't disagree with you about many of these crazy thigns you say.. But to call me crazy for what I said, considering all the other things people say here, hilarious!!
בס''ד
EveryJewA44 is 100 percent correct. This Jew-hating beast should rot in hell.
LKZ, what type of "Judaism" are you learning? That we should love traitors who sleep with our enemies and want to destroy their own people? Where are you learning this sick perversion of Judaism?
We pray three times a day for the violent death of Jewish informers, apostates and traitors. We are commanded to curse them and publicly condemn them. The laws of lashon harah do not apply to traitors, apostates and informers.
We do love and want to correct Jews who make mistakes and who are uninformed. This does include Jews who commit many terrible sins.
But an Israeli woman who was born Jewish and who decides to love a black Muslim Nazi and hate her own people is the ultimate example of evil.
LKZ, I know you have good intentions but you are being misled by someone out there.
I will be upset if EveryJewA44 stops posting here (which I'm just reading now). He's one of my favorite posters. Off hand, I can't think of any post of his that I didn't wholeheartedly agree with. I truly hope he reconsiders. A poster of his caliber shouldn't let anyone's negativity, lies, meanness, etc. turn them away.
LKZ,
I really care about you a lot and I know what you are trying to do in this thread. You explained very well why you cannot condemn her and I hope everyone else takes the time to understand what you have said.
Intermarriage is hurtful to the Jewish people, and it has happened in my family (and I even married a non-Jew from which I am currently divorced). I also understand how difficult it is and have mercy on those in similar situations.
I too do not wish death on her. But she is included in the curse on the informers and the heretics because at this time she is acting in a manner which appears to desecrate Hashem and his people. Although I have no intimate (or otherwise) knowledge of the case I usually trust Chaims opinion on this. Although he has now raised the threshold before he curses people (and I am so happy to observe this) I do not curse her name, only because she is in the category of informer.
I don't understand how the accusation on sefardim can slide like that. Its completely false and twisted.What one?
LKZ why are you upset that everyone is calling this woman a traitor, which she is? Chaim himself stepped in to say so.
I don't understand how the accusation on sefardim can slide like that. Its completely false and twisted.
בס''ד
This Jew-hating beast should die of cancer and every other disease under the sun. Then in the next world, she should also receive the maximum possible punishment.
This vile slut sleeps with black Muslim Nazis and hates her fellow Jews. She then preaches this Nazi Jew-hatred on an Israeli television "reality" show which has no problem with her views.
It is because we tolerate Judenrat beasts like this, there was a holocaust. If we did to our traitors what the Muslims do to theirs, there would never have been a holocaust.
Chazal warn us that those who are kind to the cruel are destined to be cruel to the kind. In other words, no mercy for the merciless. If someone has no mercy on their fellow Jews, we are forbidden to be merciful to them.
Lets face it.How many Israelis or anyone else would want to come home and then wake up to that face. For that matter anyone, except for an illegal African immigrant .
This woman isn't a garden-variety traitor. This is a monster who actually wishes harm on her fellow Jews. I don't know what else you want her to do to prove to you that she is scum--wave a Nazi flag around? Chant "Heil Hitler" on her show? She is the lowest of the lowest of the low. Show me where I made an offensive statement. I said that although this woman is an extreme example many Sfaradim/Mizrachim identify as "nonwhites". I did not say that they are all traitors whatsoever and you have no right to put imaginary words into my mouth. Maybe other people will humor your nutty rants, but I won't.
I will be upset if EveryJewA44 stops posting here (which I'm just reading now). He's one of my favorite posters. Off hand, I can't think of any post of his that I didn't wholeheartedly agree with. I truly hope he reconsiders. A poster of his caliber shouldn't let anyone's negativity, lies, meanness, etc. turn them away.
Let me chime in again.. I truly respect Chaim's statements. Anybody who shows sympathy, compassion or respect for this bloodsucking whore has no place in the Kahanist movement.. That's for d*mn sure.. I say anybody who sympathizes with race traitors like this scum sucking whore should be considered as much of a traitor as she is.. The Shoa would not have been possible without a good supply of Judenratt who sold out their own race by thinking they would be respected by our enemies.
Ok, I have had enough drama, I just wanted to chime in here...
I didn't follow this whole thread but 2 things I would like to say.
1) I don't like the thinking that Sefardim look at themselves as part of the 3rd world. That's completely not true.
2) She going with him is completely wrong for her, but this isn't always the worst thing (not for her personally but for Am Yisrael). A healthy body needs to expel the garbage out. I just hope that she leaves the land of Israel and doesn't associate at all with Am Yisrael. May her and other trash like that just vanish permanently from Am Yisrael. Perhaps this is one of the bad parts of having Israel especially when its run by the garbage. Hard to recycle (or sh^t) them out. Its like a bad dose of constipation but at least eventually it get's out completely.
EJA44 and Chaim are TOTALLY correct.
This woman is no longer Jewish. She is karet. She is a rodef. She is worse than Gentile Nazis. If she and Eichmann were trapped in a burning building and I were forced at gunpoint to save one of them, I won't answer who I would save. THAT is how satanic this whore is, ok?
End of story.
EJA44 and Chaim are TOTALLY correct.
This woman is no longer Jewish. She is karet. She is a rodef. She is worse than Gentile Nazis. If she and Eichmann were trapped in a burning building and I were forced at gunpoint to save one of them, I won't answer who I would save. THAT is how satanic this whore is, ok?
End of story.
Do you have a scriptural source from Tanakh or Talmud to support the statement 'This woman is no longer Jewish'?
I have never heard that a soul can shed it's Jewish nature. Even a very wicked Jew is still a Jew when they die.
A Jewish soul which has sinned is judged with ultimate judgement for its sins which instilled hatred against Jews.
Also can you prove to anyone that she rises to the level of the halachic term 'rodef'? I am not familiar with what she has done to warrant that accusation. Are you interpolating what you think she may think onto what was really done or said?
I think they can excommunicate you like they did with Kissenger, but I've heard from Lubavitchers that that doesn't actually do anything. Everything about his comment was unacceptable, but the picture of her holding a "I acknowledge the nakba" certificate may make her rodef, even if she doesn't realize it.
I didn't follow this whole thread but 2 things I would like to say." I don't like the thinking that Sefardim look at themselves as part of the 3rd world. That's completely not true. "
1) I don't like the thinking that Sefardim look at themselves as part of the 3rd world. That's completely not true.
2) She going him is completely wrong for her, but this isn't always the worst thing (not for her personally but for Am Yisrael). A healthy body needs to expel the garbage out. I just hope that she leaves the land of Israel and doesn't associate at all with Am Yisrael. May her and other trash like that just vanish permanently from Am Yisrael. Perhaps this is one of the bad parts of having Israel especially when its run by the garbage. Hard to recycle (or sh^t) them out. Its like a bad dose of constipation but at least eventually it get's out completely.
In the appeal21 which was presented before us on January 7, 1985, the court did not find sufficient cause to compel22 the husband to divorce his wife. The Court did, however, try to persuade the man, who is religiously observant, that he follow the proper path and to obey the decision of the court [that it is proper for him to issue the divorce], for it is a good deed to heed the words of the Sages who religiously obliged him to divorce his wife and that he has chained his wife needlessly23. The court gave the husband an extension of three months within which to grant a divorce to his wife. However, when the Court saw that three months passed without response, we instituted the separations of Rabbenu Tam as found in the Sefer HaYashar (Chelek HaTeshuvot §24) which states:
Decree by force of oath on every Jewish man and woman under your jurisdiction that they not be allowed to speak to him, to host him in their homes, to feed him or give him to drink, to accompany him or to visit him when he is ill.....
We added to these strictures that no sexton of any synagogue in the area where the husband resides be allowed to seat him in the synagogue, or call him to the Torah, or ask after his welfare, or grant him any honor. All people are to distance themselves from him as much as possible until his heart submits and he heeds to voices of those instructing him that he grant his wife a divorce . . .
" I don't like the thinking that Sefardim look at themselves as part of the 3rd world. That's completely not true. "Thanks for being the one sane voice in this thread Ephraim and not choosing to assume the worst. As for everyone else who is bashing me for taking Chaim's position, I want to know why you're all at JTF.
I know! I had to cry myself to sleep last night, after I came to realize that Paula Abdul was not White! Next thing I know... Bullcat and cjd are not going to be White! What the heck is going on? I have been lied too!
P.s. I know Brennan Fan didn't mean it the way it came out...
Thanks for being the one sane voice in this thread Ephraim and not choosing to assume the worst. As for everyone else who is bashing me for taking Chaim's position, I want to know why you're all at JTF.
Thanks for being the one sane voice in this thread Ephraim and not choosing to assume the worst. As for everyone else who is bashing me for taking Chaim's position, I want to know why you're all at JTF.
Well the kids will be Jewish. And Torah says, little monsters. This is a tragedy. Trash or not, if her zivug was announced in heaven before she came to the world, Hashem clearly wanted her to marry a Jew, and that is what would be good. Nothing short of right is right and what's not right is wrong. Saying that massive intermarriage of sick Jews is even a worse strategy to save the Jewish people than mass murder.
Where did I say that mass intermarriage is a good thing? I said that those who are soo sick that they marry out, perhaps its a good thing to get ride of the refuse and not have them associated with us (Am Yisrael) at all. Let them be total goyim for all I care.
That being said their should still be kiruv and people telling and spreading the Torah and bringing Jews back to the Torah, but their still will be those that will completely leave etc. and its not always the worst thing possible. To be a Jew is a privilege and not a burden. If some leave, then let them leave. Like I said before a healthy body also needs to expel the sh^t out.
Let me guess what Brennan fans point was...
Let's say you're in school, you are a native of India. All the kids are Northern European, but one kid, he is a minority as well. Who are you going to be able to relate to first?
beautiful Jewish women that have become filled with ugliness, because there isn't anywhere to get the truth from. This woman may have the soul of Sarah our mother, but never get a chance to do anything with that. Torah can't be forced, but if there was a Jewish state, I'd bet 90% of the secular women would become righteous. You can't say it's good for a Jewess to give up a privilege she never knew.
You know that the Sephardic Jew were religious, and are now considered refuse. How easy it would be to bring them
Oy vey.. I am really growing sick of this thread.. Also, Muman, I respect you and think you have a good heart and a lot of knowledge, but the fact you believe a traitor to the Jewish race has the ability to do teshuva, regardless of their actions is mind-boggling and I am sure also contradicts many of the teachings of JUdaism. I have met people, including lesbian rabbis who think they can interpret the Talmud or Torah in any way, shape or form to promote their cause, it doesn't mean I will agree with them, even being a beginner in halachic knowledge, I can recognize some core foundations of our faith, as I have read the entire Jewish Bible and do have the basic knowledge.
Now, the most practical of examples. What about one of the heads of the Luftwaffe? HItler's right-hand man, was a German Jew (Jewish mother) who had his documents forged by Hitler, himself, because of how valuable he was to the Nazi war machine, being one of the most important generals in Hitler's military. This vile Judenratt of Judenratts was responsible for the death of 6 million Jews and was one of the reasons for Hitler's many successes in WWII.. According to all your interpretation of Halacha, this man can make teshuva too? You must know the man I am referring to, his name is Erhard Milch.
This is the nazi Jewish scumbag who with his allegience to Germany declared war on the Jewish people and Judaism.. Still a Jew you say???
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Milch.jpg)
I guess all those verses in the Tanakh of traitors being executed are just for reading entertainment and today traitors should be pampered, cuddled, kissed and loved because they have emotional problems and need some good Jewish family counseling..
Well, you want to hear what I say, BULLSH**T!!!
DEATH TO ALL TRAITORS!! JEWISH, GENTILE, WHATEVER!!!
Wait again, why or who considered Sefardic Jews "refuse"? Just because she is of Sefardic background doesn't mean or make her representing Sefardim.
Back to #1, beautiful? LOL. And what or how Sarah Emeinu? First off as you know I don't believe in "reincarnation" and secondly this is her actions. She choose them. No one is kicked her out. She is doing it to herself.
Torah CAN be forced but that's a different topic.
This isn't about secular vs. religious topic.
When can Torah be forced without a Jewish state and a normal society?
http://www.torah.org/learning/mlife/ch6law7b.html
As an interesting aside, the Talmud cannot even envisage Jews who know virtually nothing about Judaism -- who have never even *heard* of the Sabbath, holidays and dietary laws in any serious way. How can a Jew -- no matter where he lives and whom he was born to -- not even *know* that we don't eat seafood or open our stores on the Sabbath? The Talmud occasionally discusses such a case theoretically, referring to such a person as a "baby who was taken captive." Must have been someone who was kidnapped by pirates as an infant, to be whisked off to some exotic island in the South Pacific.
Tag,
I believe LKZ is correct about a lot of the secular Jews today... They are considered as if they were kidnapped at birth by pirates or wolves...
??? We are talking about this beast and not other (or most) Jews today.
Rab and Samuel both maintain: Our Mishnah treats of a child who was taken captive among Gentiles, or a proselyte who became converted in the midst of Gentiles.23 But if one knew and subsequently forgot, he is liable [to a sin-offering] for every Sabbath.24 We learnt: HE WHO FORGETS THE ESSENTIAL LAW OF THE SABBATH: surely that implies that he knew [it] originally? — No: what is meant by HE WHO FORGETS THE ESSENTIAL LAW OF THE SABBATH? That the very existence of the Sabbath was unknown25 to him. But what if he knew and subsequently forgot; he is liable for every Sabbath? Then instead of teaching, HE WHO KNOWS THE ESSENTIAL LAW OF THE SABBATH AND PERFORMS MANY LABOURS ON MANY SABBATHS, INCURS A SIN-OFFERING ON ACCOUNT OF EACH SABBATH: let him teach, He who knew and subsequently forgot, and how much more so this one? — What is meant by, HE WHO KNOWS THE ESSENTIAL LAW OF THE SABBATH? That he who knew the essential law of the Sabbath and forgot it.
23] So that they never knew the laws of the Sabbath.
24] He is regarded as knowing the sanctity of the Sabbath but forgetting on each occasion that it is the Sabbath.
25] Lit., 'forgotten'.
When we can do it. Its no problem and a great and praiseworthy thing. King Hezekia was a righteous King and he forced the nation to be Torah literate. Its also part of Sefer HaHinuch and other law books. Their is a Misswah to appoint Judges (in Torah) and to have police force. It says to have the police force to enforce the Torah laws and the decrees of the Shoftim (Judges).
"Still, according to Rabbi Mizrachi, if someone is raised as a goy in public school or kibbutz, they have the status of a child stolen in a war, and can't be held accountable as Jews for what they're doing, because they don't know any better. "
I don't think that that is what he says. Doesn't he say the opposite really?
she is a journalist and she isn't that dumb. The fact that she choose that path is her choices and we don't believe in people like her having a great soul or whatever else.
??? We are talking about this beast and not other (or most) Jews today.
I do not know the specifics about this case. In general a Jew who has lost his way, and even may flirt with heresy and informing, can be considered as if they are not acting as a proper Jew because they were kidnapped at birth.
I believe that was the concept which LKZ was referring to.
I have stated repeatedly how I consider this case.
And Tag and everyone else please be aware I am not talking about this particular case... I have said she falls into the category of informer/heretic... So she is on her own... She should be rebuked though by those who have the ability to change her... If possible.
LKZ what do you mean by Dana? I wasn't saying something bad about R Mizrachi here. What does Dana have to do with it?
EJA44,
Ask yourself this question and try to answer it...
Why did Hashem allow Ishmael to live when he was dying of dehydration in the desert when he and his mother Hagar were thrown out of Avraham and Sarahs house? Hashem could have let him die there, he knew that in the future his children would be enemies of his beloved people Israel, yet he saved him...
The ways of Hashem are beyond our comprehension. We should curse those who fall within the parameters where such curses are warranted. But we should not allow our curses against Jews to become a matter of hatred.
I say again that her sin is great and her wickedness is condemnable... I curse her as a informer and heretic. But I do hold hope that she one day will rectify her sins.
Remember that everything that happens only happens because Hashem allows it to happen. We must follow the law of Hashem, and keep the Torah, and when we do we will destroy the evil.
EJA44,Muman, you are like a Rabbi, in your knowledge, I am sad to see you now abusing such great knowledge you hold. Rather , then challenging you as a layman, I will find another Rabbi who will champion my cause who can meet you on your own level.
Bring some examples of those traitors who were executed and we can discuss what the teachings of the Talmud are.
As much as I respect your teachings, you do hog up the entire threads with the posts, perhaps a link woudl be better than just hijacking the entire thread.. I know you think by posting verse aafter verse you can shut up anybody who will challenge you..
I have attended the YOm Kippur service.. I suppose since its all about Teshuva, if I massacre and rape a child, its ok, since I am a Jew, right? You interpret halacha according to your own liberal, modern mindset. Modern Judaism is all about trying to rationalize the justice system of the Torah and explain why all these sensible rules are not applicable. I don't buy it, even if it makes me a bad Jew. Considering, you believe a Jew who leaves his religion and becomes a traitor, joins the Nazi party and becomes a top ranking general who helps the worst enemy of the Jews exterminate half the Jewish race and bring an end to the Jewish religion, well what can I say?? You are even worse than the worst of bleeding heart leftist liberal Jews in my eyes. Even some of them would agree with me on this subject.
I think I have no more place in JTF, you guys claim to be very right-wing , vigilant and liberators of the Jewish people, but you are as leftist, self-hating bleeding-heart liberalish as many other deranged, self-loathing Jewish groups I meet. Seriously, defending some filthy whore who marries a black Sudanese muslim and converts to Islam and then curses the entire Ashkenazi race of Jews. Then, defending one of the highest ranking and notorious generals in Hitler's military, simply because, he had a Jewish mother, who he lied and claimed was raped by a gentile uncle to give birth to him.
I think Chaim is bold , vigilant and has walked the walk and sacrificed himself for the good of the Jewish people, but his forum is just gone to insanity. This is why I am sick and tired of Jews and feel like leaving the Jewish community, altogether. . I cannot stand this insanity, this self-hatred and pampering and cuddling vile, evil and wicked people. I can see by Chaim's posts , that he is sober-minded and has a clear understanding of the evilness that threatens the destruction of our people. What is with the rest of you people with your heads up your rectum?
Muman, you are like a Rabbi, in your knowledge, I am sad to see you now abusing such great knowledge you hold. Rather , then challenging you as a layman, I will find another Rabbi who will champion my cause who can meet you on your own level.
However, being a man who has some knowledge in the Bible, I will definitely take your challenge about posting verses from the Tanakh where it clearly shows the rewards for Jewish traitors, that is death! Since, you challenged me, I will take you on this challenge!!
Get some rest EJA44, you are acting like a fool.
You make false accusations and do not represent the Torah in a respectful manner.
David orders Solomon to slay the Jewish traitor Joab, which Solomon had done:
I Kings 2:5
5. Moreover, you also know what Joab the son of Zeruiah did to me, (and) what he did to the two captains of the hosts of Israel, to Abner the son of Ner, and to Amasa the son of Jether, whom he slew, and shed the blood of war in peace and put the blood of war upon his girdle (that was) about his loins, and in his shoes that (were) on his feet.
EJa44,
Go join the jihadis if you want to kill people. You sound like an islamic mamzer yelling 'allah akbar' as you massacre Jews.
You think you will get into heaven by doing that...
:laugh:
EJA44,
You make suppositions you cannot substantiate. You act in a very devious and untruthful manner.
I do not tolerate any disrespect of Hashem or Israel or any Jew... You do not know me, and as it is turning out I do not want to know you. Stop making a fool of yourself.
Or maybe I will yell Baruch Hashem!!! I always said there is a lot of things we Jews can learn from the jihadis.. The Jihadis love people like you more than me.. They love the fact that they can screw and marry our women and that they face no retribution since they get a free ride, being Jewish.
You support the enemies of the Jewish people.. Don't you know that many of our worst enemies, some as evil as the Muslims/Nazis are Jews themselves?? Many Jews have worked very hard to bring the destruction of our race.
Go ahead and despise and hate me for not kneeling and bowing to your wisdom.. I guess anybody who disagrees with your wisdom you spit on and talk down on.. Typical arrogant, self-righteous Jew.. I know the mentality, that is why I am sick of most Jewish communities I go to here in the USA, they are full of people like you who need to stand on their pedestal enforcing their knowledge to all lost souls like myself.
I don't give a damn you anymore.. You are not a brother in my eyes.. I don't care about making a fool of myself if I feel it will help save my race from extinction.. You would have been the same guy telling the Jews that we should follow the rabbis wisdom and go to the work camps, that Hitler only wants to keep us working hard for the better of the country.
I am sorry if you feel I am trying to be 'superior' or 'impose my thought' on you. I really want to believe your motivation is pure and you are just feeling that some people are pushing your buttons (or whatever you want to call it). I do not curse you, I do not harbor ill thoughts, but I do feel that some rectification will have to take place before we are brothers again.
Some examples of Jews who deserve the fierce wrath of Hashem's Judgment
Erhard Milch (YS"V)
Neuterei Karta, may all the Jews leave this Nazi group and YS"V to their leaders
Karl Marx (YS"V)
Leon Trotsky (YS"V)
Noam Chomsky (YS"V)
Good point LKZ... The Jewish 'race'? Where did he learn that from?
Judaism and the Jewish people are not a 'race' but rather a 'people' or 'nation' (Am Yisrael/The people/nation of Israel)...
Don't forget to include everyone who doesn't keep mitzvot there too. One woman that has an abortion kills generations, and has earned what she has earned. The commandment is to pray that the wicked leave the world. For those that didn't make teshuva, the book is closed, we can say what we should. Those who know the truth and fight it should be cursed, and we should pray that they make teshuva, and those that don't know the truth should be educated, and we should pray that they make teshuva.
I'll give a prayer that everyjew makes teshuva, but I don't know for sure he's a Jew, so it's going up as a mention.
Good point LKZ... The Jewish 'race'? Where did he learn that from?
Judaism and the Jewish people are not a 'race' but rather a 'people' or 'nation' (Am Yisrael/The people/nation of Israel)...
I will give a prayer you make teshuva you traitor lover.
I would take one abortion over 6,000,000 dead Jews,... But that is me...
Alright you jackasses have fun... I am done here... Hope you feel good about yourselves you sh*theads.. I sure hope I never have to meet any of you idiots one day.. I would have a hard time looking at your faces..
The Jewish PEOPLE are doomed..
About the word "race". Sorry, the english language sucks.. I am trying to learn my Hebrew.. Nobody would bother teaching me, I'm not worth their time, and I don't have the money to pay a tutor $20/hr, so in between 12 hour day job, trying to teach myself..
You arrogant, self-righteous [censored] can go ahead and have your fun and feel good that you help pray for the soul of this poor, helpless, abused, beautiful, kind Israeli woman who is an innocent victim and couldn't help herself to marry a Sudanese Muslim Nazi and curse the entire Ashkenazi race.. Poor sweetheart, poor little honey.. Man.. You guys just pray I make teshuva, ok!!!
בס''ד
This is unbelievable. The infantile personal attacks in this thread should embarrass all who have participated in this.
One of the amazing things I have noticed is how certain people here say we can't curse a Jewish anti-Semite who hates her own people, who sleeps with a Sudanese Muslim illegal alien and who then brags about it on Israeli television. But some of the same people who say we can't curse this evil beast, then repeatedly curse their fellow JTFers. Because the issue here is childish ego.
I am working day and night for years to try to build a movement that will awaken and save the Jewish people. But certain people on this forum keep undermining everything I do. Because engaging in petty personal feuds is more important to certain people than the cause.
EJA44,Your brother's death is a scar to the entire nation of Israel. If there was a traitor who supported those terrorists, what would I think the penalty should be? What would you think it should be?
You miss my point in this thread. I do not support traitors, I curse them...
I stand up against jihadis wherever they are. You should be aware that my brother died on 9/11 in the WTC and I am an avid anti-Islam person... So please be aware I hate islam and anything associated with it with a passion.
Is it so terrible if a person who was Jewish somehow became attracted to the enemy, but in the end they realized they were Jewish and performed a Kiddush Hashem by exposing the evil plot of the enemy? Do we not see in Judaism the story of Purim where a Jewish girl was supposedly married to the gentile King of Persia? We did not know what was going on behind the scenes.My knowledge of the Bible is not the greatest, nor my historical knowledge, but wasn't the King of Persia a hero to the Jewish people? Wasn't this the same king that help free us from the chains of the Babylonians and help us reclaim the Temple in Jerusalem? There is a big difference between marrying an ally and marrying an arch-enemy.
I am not angry or judging you EJA44... I have a thick skin and can take an insult and still try to argue rationally.Argue rationally? By telling me to shutup and call me a fool?? Isn't calling another Jew a fool and trying to belittle him, a sin itself? Of course, a guy like you is incapable of ever doing such, a little maggot liek me could is not worthy to lick your toe hairs.
Traitors to the nation should die. But judging who is the traitor and who is not the traitor according to Halacha is the issue. When it comes to the King (as I explained above) the law is that one who rebels against the king is to be killed. I will pray for the demise of the traitor and all those who conspire against Israel. I sing the 'Song of the Sea' which recalls the punishment of Egyptian chariot rides suffered when the Red Sea drowned them... I know about divine vengeance and the application of strict justice...It's pretty clear that she is a traitor, the Nazi Luftwaffe general who helped HItler exterminate the Jews and a man like Karl Marx who promoted the destruction of the Jewish religion are all traitors.. Can this get past your thick skull?? Is Halacha really this flawed that we cannot clearly see treason in our midst? I doubt it! But I am not the rabbi to help explain a concept I find logical to you.
But I also want people to be aware that all things must be done with a view toward Divine justice, and the magnification of Hashem... When we do this we are doing what the Torah intended Jews to do, to remove evil from the world.I believe in justice. Hashem gave us courts, military , police, etc to administer this justice. If a Jew goes around murdering people on a shooting rampage in the streets of Tel Aviv, do you seriously think we should just sit around and wait for Hashem's Divine Justice or do you believe that Hashem has called us to defend our people and his justice will be administered through us?
My knowledge of the Bible is not the greatest, nor my historical knowledge, but wasn't the King of Persia a hero to the Jewish people? Wasn't this the same king that help free us from the chains of the Babylonians and help us reclaim the Temple in Jerusalem? There is a big difference between marrying an ally and marrying an arch-enemy.
I believe in justice. Hashem gave us courts, military , police, etc to administer this justice. If a Jew goes around murdering people on a shooting rampage in the streets of Tel Aviv, do you seriously think we should just sit around and wait for Hashem's Divine Justice or do you believe that Hashem has called us to defend our people and his justice will be administered through us?
Alright you jackasses have fun... I am done here... Hope you feel good about yourselves you sh*theads.. I sure hope I never have to meet any of you idiots one day.. I would have a hard time looking at your faces..
The Jewish PEOPLE are doomed..
About the word "race". Sorry, the english language sucks.. I am trying to learn my Hebrew.. Nobody would bother teaching me, I'm not worth their time, and I don't have the money to pay a tutor $20/hr, so in between 12 hour day job, trying to teach myself..
You arrogant, self-righteous [censored] can go ahead and have your fun and feel good that you help pray for the soul of this poor, helpless, abused, beautiful, kind Israeli woman who is an innocent victim and couldn't help herself to marry a Sudanese Muslim Nazi and curse the entire Ashkenazi race.. Poor sweetheart, poor little honey.. Man.. You guys just pray I make teshuva, ok!!!
בס''ד
This is unbelievable. The infantile personal attacks in this thread should embarrass all who have participated in this.
One of the amazing things I have noticed is how certain people here say we can't curse a Jewish anti-Semite who hates her own people, who sleeps with a Sudanese Muslim illegal alien and who then brags about it on Israeli television. But some of the same people who say we can't curse this evil beast, then repeatedly curse their fellow JTFers. Because the issue here is childish ego.
I am working day and night for years to try to build a movement that will awaken and save the Jewish people. But certain people on this forum keep undermining everything I do. Because engaging in petty personal feuds is more important to certain people than the cause.
Have I cursed any JTF member? I do not believe I have.
It's pretty clear that she is a traitor, the Nazi Luftwaffe general who helped HItler exterminate the Jews and a man like Karl Marx who promoted the destruction of the Jewish religion are all traitors.. Can this get past your thick skull?? Is Halacha really this flawed that we cannot clearly see treason in our midst? I doubt it! But I am not the rabbi to help explain a concept I find logical to you.
You be aware also that my grandmother's entire village of Schdryn, Belarus was exterminated by the nazis with the help of one of the men I posted in the above pictures that LKZ was laughing and snickering over.. YOU BE AWARE OF THAT AND NEVER FORGET IT!!!
My thick skull? It seems like you have the thick skull... I clearly stated that all you mentioned here are cursed.
So, then what? We Just sit back and wait for Hashem's Divine Judgment and do nothing to these vile murderers and destroyers of the Jewish race, who just happened to be Jewish?? How many more millions of Jews need to die before we realize perhaps the judgment to be carried out is laid on us?? Did David defeat the Phillistines by waiting for Hashem to win the battle for him? If Solomon did not execute the traitor , Adoniahu, would he not have had his kingdom stolen from him??
No, the story of Purim the King (King Achashveros) was an evil king who conspired with Haman to wipe out the Jewish people. He was no hero but rather a rank Jew hater... Esther married him because the king killed his wife Vashti and needed a replacement and found Ester (a Jewish girl who was a nephew of Mordechia who was on the Sanhedrin). In the end, behind the scene, Hashem caused things to happen which led to the turning around of the decree to wipe out all the Jews, and instead the Jews wiped out the Jew haters...
Learn that this coming Purim...
Esther, probably had no choice but to marry him.. And, now that my memory is refreshed, didn't Esther marry the king for the very reason that she would make a plea to save her people? There is quite a difference in marry an enemy to save your race and marrying your enemy to bring about its destruction. You are comparing apples to oranges here.
In those cases the law was able to be carried out. Today we do not have the Sanhedrin. I do support causes which are working to re-establish the Sanhedrin. When Moshiach does come we will have a king who will be granted the power to execute all the commands and judge the wicked with justice.
We can expose the wicked, inspire rebuke against those who have gone astray... I support this approach...
No... Only after Mordechai told her to approach the King did she do so. Until that time she did not know what was going to happen... It is the 'miracle' behind the scene which is the lesson of Purim.
And you are missing the point of my bringing the Purim story. The people of the time did not know what was going to happen, they did not know that she really did not consumate the marriage with the King, they may have had incorrect beliefs that she had actually joined the king in the palace against her people...
Are you saying this woman who is holding her Naqba did not actually marry and sleep with the Muslim guy and is really secretly trying to save the Jewish people , loves Ashkenazi and has a plan to overthrow the Sudanese Muslims?
Seriously, Muman, I cannot even begin to understand your comparing of QUeen Esther, a holy and righteous woman with this vile witch.. But, if she is some type of secret hero, well, shame on me!!!!
What you stated was clear Halacha... It is called 'Pikuach Nefesh' or saving lives... It means that any command of Shabbat can be violated so long as it saves Jewish life. This clearly includes fighting in a war... Most of us here are aware of that law.Yes indeed...
EJA44, It was not my intention to 'curse' you... If you felt it was a curse please let me apologize. Using strong language is not cursing in my opinion, but rather it does constitute Lashon Hara (which many of us here have been engaging in).I accept your apology, because I know you are a well-learned and devoted Jew.. I apologize as well for speaking lashon hara to you.. I suppose I felt I was being attacked and belittle and I tend to get upset and irrational, myself. Of course, hating you would not bring any simcha to me, but only misery.. I apologize for labeling you as my enemy.. I know any Jew who loves Israel and his Jewish people is always a friend, even if some of his actions I deem are "misguided".
You are missing the point EJA44, and I am getting tired of having to draw diagrams to explain the concept to you.
We do not know how things will pan out in the future. What seems like something terrible today may end up being something good in the future. I am not comparing the Queen to this woman, Chas Veshalom... I am saying that the 'hidden face' of Hashem works in mysterious ways. And maybe there will come a time this woman does turn around. There are stories of this happening during the Holocaust too.. People who acted as informants at one time, in the end saving some Jews because their conscience got to them...
This is what I am trying to discuss when I bring the story of Purim.
Just sit and wait it out, eh? Had, Am Yisrael followed your advice, we would not have an Israel today.. I know Neturei Karta is very big on this type of thinking. I know you are not aligned with them and shun them.. However, I think you are being a bit naive and involuntarily supporting the type of theology that support the core of people like Neturei Karta who think even creating the Nation of Israel goes against Torah, because we had no place in creating a nation before the coming of Moshiach, we were suppose to sit back and wait. For example, any time any crime is committed in Israel, is not against Torah then to have a secular court , composed of Jews, bring judgment against them? Simply, something as simple as stealing a watch , how could it be possible to administer justice against a Jewish criminal without a Sanhedrin?
Huh?Are you going off the deep end again?
I fully support the modern state of Israel. Where do you come up with these lies? I am clearly of the belief that we have to do things to bring the Moshiach (and I do what I can every day). We are to begin building the 3rd Temple, with or without the Moshiach. Check my history of posting here at JTF and find that I support the Temple Institute, a group of activists in Israel who support the establishment of Jewish sovereignty on the Temple Mount.
The secular court is not capable of true Torah justice. While I support the death penalty in the secular courts I do not believe that it is a true justice as the Torah envisions (ensuring that the guilty are guilty and that the innocent are not accidentally punished).
Yes indeed...
I accept your apology, because I know you are a well-learned and devoted Jew.. I apologize as well for speaking lashon hara to you.. I suppose I felt I was being attacked and belittle and I tend to get upset and irrational, myself. Of course, hating you would not bring any simcha to me, but only misery.. I apologize for labeling you as my enemy.. I know any Jew who loves Israel and his Jewish people is always a friend, even if some of his actions I deem are "misguided".
Relax.. I know you support Israel.. I was just trying to understand the concept you are discussing. I get very weary when people mention that certain actions, judgments , etc an only be done with the coming of Moshiach.
I guess I am confused as what you mean by the secular court is not capable of true Torah justice. I understand the concept and know that nothing can compare with the true justice of Torah and Sanhedrin.. However, I am glad to hear where you stand on dealth penalty and that you are not against secular courts operating in the land of Israel, administering justice.
I suppose aiding and abetting the enemy, however, in your eyes, cannot be punished until MOshiach comes, even though stabbing and murdering in cold-blood is permissible for the death penalty?
Thank you EJA44... I also apologize for the harsh words which I have written... I do respect your position despite our misunderstanding.
Who will administer this death penalty? Who is the traitor? A few years before I made Teshuva (back in 2001/2002) I made some statements to my father (who died in 2010) where I did not support Israel and I questioned whether Israel should exist. I don't know where that feeling came from but it is good that I did make Teshuva because before that I was heading down a bad road. I was not born frum and only came to my Jewish faith because of miracles (9/11, divorce, and being fired from a job) and the advice of an african american neighbor who said 'go back to your people'... Could I have been an informer or a heretic?
Baruch Hashem the events of my life brought me to seek out a Jewish community, which led me to a progressive shul (liberal/reform) which accepted me... I do not hate them at this time, and I am grateful that liberal shul existed because otherwise I would not have met my 1st Orthodox Rabbi who led me eventually to the Chabad rabbis.... Everything happened for a reason, and in my experience although I have suffered I am better for it...
Even without a Sanhedrin a court of law must be established or else Hashem views the people as wicked. As I said, even the righteous nations (Ben Noach) must establish courts of law.
Thanks for sharing this information.. It has been something I have been trying to understand, as some Jews, usually Orthodox, I have met tell me the craziest things, because we don't have a Sanhedrin established.
A. The Problem
The deplorable state of Torah justice in the State of Israel is one of the most painful problems for religious Jews today. The established legal system of the State of Israel is either non-Jewish, or "Israeli", which is an amalgam of laws of various origins, including a scattering of articles based on the Shulchan Aruch, which were included primarily because of coalition pressure on the government. The general spirit of the system, as well as most of the judges, is alien to Jewish tradition. Most religious Jews, under the impression that the principle that the "law of the land is law" (dina d'malchuta dina) applies to this case, are unaware of the seriousness of the prohibition on litigating before secular Israeli courts. As a result, those Jews who are aware of the prohibition are characterized as extremists and anti-Zionists.
The source of the error in this case is an essentially valid premise. It is generally correct to identify the state with the system of justice. However, in this case, that is precisely the root of the problem. Since the State of Israel is the state of the Jewish people, it should be governed by authentic, traditional Jewish law. In the same way that it is inconceivable to have a Jewish state without a Jewish language as the official language, the Jewish calendar as the official calendar, and an explicit relationship with the Jewish people (the Law of Return), so too a Jewish state without Jewish law is inconceivable. As long as foreign law rules the state, a Jew who is cognizant of the importance of law is not able to identify with that component of the political structure, even though he accepts the other components of the political structure. Precisely because of his love for the State of Israel, every loyal Jew must aspire for the restoration of authentic Jewish law to the place in the State.
For instance were there to be no religious education available in the State educational system, would a religious Jew be obligated to accept the secular educational program and send his children to study in its institutions? Would he not remain a loyal citizen and even a good Zionist, by identifying with other components of the political structure? Most religious Jews do not understand that secular justice is like secular education, and both cannot be adopted by a religious Jew. Perhaps the political struggle to ensure religious education resulted in the neglect of the problem of religious justice.
A significant portion of the blame for the general indifference of the religious public to this problem can be attributed to religious jurists who, in contradiction to the unanimous opinion of Torah scholars in recent generations, developed the theory that the prohibition on non-Torah judiciaries does not apply to the Israeli court system. The present article is presented in order to correct this misconception and demonstrate the gravity of the prohibition on non-Torah judiciary in our times.
So, then what? We Just sit back and wait for Hashem's Divine Judgment and do nothing to these vile murderers and destroyers of the Jewish race, who just happened to be Jewish?? How many more millions of Jews need to die before we realize perhaps the judgment to be carried out is laid on us?? Did David defeat the Phillistines by waiting for Hashem to win the battle for him? If Solomon did not execute the traitor , Adoniahu, would he not have had his kingdom stolen from him??
Just sit and wait it out, eh? Had, Am Yisrael followed your advice, we would not have an Israel today.. I know Neturei Karta is very big on this type of thinking. I know you are not aligned with them and shun them.. However, I think you are being a bit naive and involuntarily supporting the type of theology that support the core of people like Neturei Karta who think even creating the Nation of Israel goes against Torah, because we had no place in creating a nation before the coming of Moshiach, we were suppose to sit back and wait. For example, any time any crime is committed in Israel, is not against Torah then to have a secular court , composed of Jews, bring judgment against them? Simply, something as simple as stealing a watch , how could it be possible to administer justice against a Jewish criminal without a Sanhedrin?
Are you saying this woman who is holding her Naqba did not actually marry and sleep with the Muslim guy and is really secretly trying to save the Jewish people , loves Ashkenazi and has a plan to overthrow the Sudanese Muslims?
Seriously, Muman, I cannot even begin to understand your comparing of QUeen Esther, a holy and righteous woman with this vile witch.. But, if she is some type of secret hero, well, shame on me!!!!
Relax.. I know you support Israel.. I was just trying to understand the concept you are discussing. I get very weary when people mention that certain actions, judgments , etc an only be done with the coming of Moshiach.
I guess I am confused as what you mean by the secular court is not capable of true Torah justice. I understand the concept and know that nothing can compare with the true justice of Torah and Sanhedrin.. However, I am glad to hear where you stand on dealth penalty and that you are not against secular courts operating in the land of Israel, administering justice. I have met some Jews who I would say are "off the deep end" who have told me that Jews cannot be judged or undergo any type of punishment by other Jews because there is no Sanhedrin. Their argument, somewhat nullifies the operation of a functional Israeli State, wouldn't you agree?
I suppose aiding and abetting the enemy, however, in your eyes, cannot be punished until MOshiach comes, even though stabbing and murdering in cold-blood is permissible for the death penalty?
Indeed Muman, I feel bad for my harsh words for you.. You have always been an inspiration to me here with your explanations and teaching of Jewish Law.
This has been a hard time for me on top of everything else. I deal with so many self-hating Jews and Jewish traitors on a daily basis, I suppose I feel like I am losing my sanity dealing with them all the time. How many Jews do I meet around here, who keep crying for the ill-treatment of the innocent Palestinians? My own uncle was a communist who hated Israel and loved the Arabs. Hashem did strike him dead, I am sad to say. I'd rather he'd made teshuva, of course..
I guess after reading this post by Chaim about a woman marrying Muslim cursing her Ashkenazi people just made me go crazy.. I have lost my sympathy for people who hate their own race. As a matter of fact, I have gotten to depise and loathe self-hating Jews more than even the people who call, themselves , my enemy. I met some Egyptian guys not long ago, who seem to support Israel more than most liberal Jews I have met around here do.
I too have done many bad things and had a very bad life when I was younger.. Your story is inspirational and I would say I made teshuva later in life after living a as pagan for many years who was raised by atheist/agnostic Ashkenazi Jewish parents.
I am a person who believes in forgiveness and I would never quickly advocate for the killing of one of our people.. Every Jewish soul is precious to Hashem. IF the person is a prostitute, drug addict, adulterer, thief, swindler, whatever. As I spoke about my cousin Elisa Hanna who was a drugged out biker chick who later became a very religious Ultra Orthodox Chassid and moved to Brooklyn wiht her husband. She is now the proud mother of 12+ children. Nobody knows exactly how many she has, but she has a lot of them. My parents told me they never saw her not pregnant once! Anyhow, I know her story is miraculous and if she can be blessed with the life she has now, why not many others who are in such dire situations?
However, I do draw a line.. I believe that until a person makes teshuva they are in deep water and need to get out of it before they sink. And, if they become more and more evil and hardened in their heart they are at risk of doing something that is worthy of punishment, not only by Hashem directly, but also through man. For example, if somebody becomes a murderer or rapist, genocidal, etc.
I hate to say, one thing I can never accept is a person, whose actions cause another Jew to go astray. For example, this woman here is trying to bring about the destruction of the Jewish race. Telling Jewish women it is good to marry Muslims and trying to make war with the Ashkenazim . She is cancer and if cancer is not stopped, what does it do?
Thanks for sharing this information.. It has been something I have been trying to understand, as some Jews, usually Orthodox, I have met tell me the craziest things, because we don't have a Sanhedrin established.
So sick of this guy, honestly. No, liar, we don't do nothing, and nobody proposed doing that. We make a Jewish state so that we can help the ones who can be and punish those who betray us.Honestly , I am sick of you and all the insults and belittlement and your arrogant, self-righteous attitude and the fact that you attacked me and lashed out all types of vile insults simply because I believed this Israeli woman who betrayed her race is worthy of death. I was having a problem in my synagogue with the community and rather than helping me you just unleash all your venom and insults and proceed to call me a goy, indirectly (oh, he is not a Jew, as you say), insulting me and all my ancestors. Those are unforgiving words.
Honestly , I am sick of you and all the insults and belittlement and your arrogant, self-righteous attitude and the fact that you attacked me and lashed out all types of vile insults simply because I believed this Israeli woman who betrayed her race is worthy of death. I was having a problem in my synagogue with the community and rather than helping me you just unleash all your venom and insults and proceed to call me a goy, indirectly (oh, he is not a Jew, as you say), insulting me and all my ancestors. Those are unforgiving words.
I believe me and Muman have made amends and were having a civil discussion, but here you come to stir up a new fight . You insinuated all this drama to begin with when you attacked me..
Anyhow, I am done bickering with you... I will let Chaim decide which one of us will leave this forum, because I cannot keep posting with a vicious rabid dog constantly attacking me on all my posts.
I sent Chaim a PM about you.. I will see what he says.. Maybe, he has some great words to share with me or you.. One of us is leaving more likely. Most likely me, you are a long term poster.. I will let you spew your venom to others, I , myself ,will not take it anymore.
Knew it. Didn't mean almost anything in the last post, and now I'm the one who was making vile insults, and the bad guy here. Anyways, I will say sorry for attacking you on all your other posts, which I never did, but I think you're fake after this one.
You win I'm fake..Another one bites the dust... I am glad that it's not only Gentiles that have had enough of this bull c=rap ... soon it will be the muman LkZ back slapping site.
I am leaving JTF for good.. This is my last post.. I wish the movement luck and hope the place doesn't get overrun with bleeding-heart, self-hating arrogant jerky people who think trashing on their fellow
LKZ, in reality, since you are calling me a fake and a goy, I will say I have more Jewish ancestry than you and documentation to prove it than you do.. My mothers family are Ashkenazi hailing from England, Russia and Poland. My father's family are Ashkenazi who hail from Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia. My great grandfather and great grandmother of my father was born in a Jewish community in Odessa, Ukraine and I have documents proving that. My father's mother hails from Schedryn, Belarus, a village I am told by one of my rabbis that was renown for its Chassidic community. My grandmother's first language was Yiddish, although she grew up speaking Russian and English. My great grandparents were mostly Yiddish speakers. I have famous Jewish people in my family on both sides.. About 15-20% of my relatives first language is Russian and my grandmother helped them escape the Soviet Union in the 70s and 80s when they were being heavily persecuted .
So, before you speak more Lashon Hara, so liberally calling a Jew a goy, as you enjoy doing, perhaps you can check yourself. Considering, you have a non-Jewish father, I would think you would be even more respectful and sensitive on the subject. I never would attack your Jewish ethnicity, as you have done to me. Calling another Jew a goy is a sin worthy of worst punishment.
The only person who is a fraud here is the guy whining and crying about the poor innocent woman who is tricked into sleeping and marrying the black Sudanese muslim guy and cursing her own race. I know Hashem will reward you and the goy name Avraham Ben Noach for your attempts at attacking me and insulting my heritage.
I am logging out here and won't be posting anymore, because I have more important things to do with my life than get into juvenile food fights.. I lost my temper and I apologize to everyone for that.. I cannot fathom how people on Kahanist forum will defend a traitor. That just makes me want to vomit and I will find another movement that is not so full of bleeding-heart, self-righteous Jews who attack and insult their own because they do not share their opinions.
I hope others here will realize the pernicious threat to our race and can stop behaving like typical modern self-hating Jew who keeps courting his enemies and pampering the traitors in their midst. These are my final words before I leave here..
GOODBYE FOR GOOD..
Another one bites the dust... I am glad that it's not only Gentiles that have had enough of this bull c=rap ... soon it will be the muman LkZ back slapping site.
I was here before you and will be here far after your gone... Only Chaim can ask me to leave.
Yeah, we need trolls like you who only chime in when you feel the Jews are not towing the RCC line...Troll... Troll and if all fails toss a Nazi in :::D Whatever muman.
Troll... Troll and if all fails toss a Nazi in :::D Whatever muman.
cjd,Far better than all your boiler plate clip and posts :laugh:
you are so cool... still hogging screen space with a 'sig line' which fills the screen.
Far better than all your boiler plate clip and posts :laugh:
Okay, it's not Mumans fault, I started it when I asked him about Shabbat after he was complaining about Chabad.
Then he really didn't like me, and now I'm included in everything he was fighting against.
He also praised Satmar....
Thank you Ephraim, but it will go in one ear and out the other with cjd... His only excuse for joining threads is to insert insults against me... otherwise he doesn't post..If it went in one ear and out the other all would be well... I get no joy out of insulting you you... I would post as I did in the past if there was something constructive being posted... Sadly the forum has been taken over by extremist and unless people tow the party line they are no longer welcome.
^ I don't think so... I think he would participate more, if his heritage and religion was not bashed all the time on the forum. He probably would bring other Catholics to JTF...
^ I don't think so... I think he would participate more, if his heritage and religion was not bashed all the time on the forum. He probably would bring other Catholics to JTF...Bingo!!! I use to pass out the weekly JTF shows to all my Gentile friends on cd... One only has to look at all the past Gentile membership we have lost due to this sort of post to see it's impossible to bring new people in... Not that I would want an overwhelming number of Gentiles to sign up but support is actually support.
What do you mean 'tow the party line'?Personally I was not fond of EJA44 and what he has to say however I find it sad when a long term member leaves the forum... Despite what you think I wish to see JTF move forward... Shrinking active membership however is not a step in the right direction... Personally speaking unless someone is disruptive to the forum they serve a purpose... There is no debate if we agree on every issue.
In this thread I wrote virtually exactly what Chaim said concerning how we Jews curse the informer and heretic during our daily prayers. I then went on to agree with LKZ that cursing can bring unwanted judgement on a person who casually curses others (especially if they have some guilt in a similar transgression). It seemed this guy EJA44 was not satisfied unless everyone cursed the same way he was cursing, and then went on to make baseless accusations.
You win I'm fake..
I am leaving JTF for good.. This is my last post.. I wish the movement luck and hope the place doesn't get overrun with bleeding-heart, self-hating arrogant jerky people who think trashing on their fellow
LKZ, in reality, since you are calling me a fake and a goy, I will say I have more Jewish ancestry than you and documentation to prove it than you do.. My mothers family are Ashkenazi hailing from England, Russia and Poland. My father's family are Ashkenazi who hail from Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia. My great grandfather and great grandmother of my father was born in a Jewish community in Odessa, Ukraine and I have documents proving that. My father's mother hails from Schedryn, Belarus, a village I am told by one of my rabbis that was renown for its Chassidic community. My grandmother's first language was Yiddish, although she grew up speaking Russian and English. My great grandparents were mostly Yiddish speakers. I have famous Jewish people in my family on both sides.. About 15-20% of my relatives first language is Russian and my grandmother helped them escape the Soviet Union in the 70s and 80s when they were being heavily persecuted .
So, before you speak more Lashon Hara, so liberally calling a Jew a goy, as you enjoy doing, perhaps you can check yourself. Considering, you have a non-Jewish father, I would think you would be even more respectful and sensitive on the subject. I never would attack your Jewish ethnicity, as you have done to me. Calling another Jew a goy is a sin worthy of worst punishment.
The only person who is a fraud here is the guy whining and crying about the poor innocent woman who is tricked into sleeping and marrying the black Sudanese muslim guy and cursing her own race. I know Hashem will reward you and the goy name Avraham Ben Noach for your attempts at attacking me and insulting my heritage.
I am logging out here and won't be posting anymore, because I have more important things to do with my life than get into juvenile food fights.. I lost my temper and I apologize to everyone for that.. I cannot fathom how people on Kahanist forum will defend a traitor. That just makes me want to vomit and I will find another movement that is not so full of bleeding-heart, self-righteous Jews who attack and insult their own because they do not share their opinions.
I hope others here will realize the pernicious threat to our race and can stop behaving like typical modern self-hating Jew who keeps courting his enemies and pampering the traitors in their midst. These are my final words before I leave here..
GOODBYE FOR GOOD..
Okay, it's not Mumans fault, I started it when I asked him about Shabbat after he was complaining about Chabad.
Then he really didn't like me, and now I'm included in everything he was fighting against.
He also praised Satmar....
^^^ " *Gasp* I should have known you were the real troll all along! JK you rock dude."
At least I'll admit when I'm wrong! I just got irritated about the way he was talking about Chabad, and the women there. And killing yourself for no reason (big sin to me).
Nothing pisses me off more then, when a man complains about the way a woman is dressed... like a man has no self control. What are we freaking animals? So a woman dresses like a hooker... so would HaShem think it's okay for me to rape her? NO! He would say stop starring at her arse and being an animal! You just failed the test... loser!
I do believe in modesty, but men have no excuse to blame women for their sin!
^^^ " *Gasp* I should have known you were the real troll all along! JK you rock dude."
At least I'll admit when I'm wrong! And I apologize if I hurt him. I just got irritated about the way he was talking about Chabad, and the women there. And killing yourself for no reason (big sin to me).
Nothing pisses me off more then, when a man complains about the way a woman is dressed... like a man has no self control. What are we freaking animals? So a woman dresses like a hooker... so would HaShem think it's okay for me to rape her? NO! He would say stop starring at her arse and being an animal! You just failed the test... loser!
I do believe in modesty(nothing is sexier), but men have no excuse to blame women for their sin!
Who's JK?
בס''ד
Muman, LKZ and EveryJewA44: in this thread, you exchanged dozens of posts insulting, mocking, ridiculing and accusing each other of all types of terrible things. Your posts look childish and even insane.
For the past several days, I was extremely busy. I was dealing with very important things that I am not at liberty to explain on this forum. I repeatedly appealed to you to stop this infantile flaming war. But you ignored my appeals and continued with your petty little personal battles.
You are undermining everything that Shlomo and I are trying to accomplish here. We work hard, do high quality videos that do bring people to the forum and then they get turned off by this nonsense and decide not to join.
Thank G-d, our Hebrew movement is growing by the hundreds every week. But we also want a strong English movement.
Unfortunately, it is clear to me that you are out of control. Go back and read your crazy posts and see how they make us look. If you don't realize how bad they are, then you need help.
I am going to have to take some unpleasant action because I can no longer tolerate this craziness.
LKZ,
What you say is true but because this woman is an 'informer' and a denier of the truth of Torah we do not have to have mercy on her. Indeed we should not hatefully and angrily call for her death, but we should not defend her nor should we make excuses for her.
It is this kind of woman that we curse every day in our Shemoneh Esrei prayer (against the informer and heretic).
Let there be no hope for informers, and may all the heretics and all the wicked instantly perish; may all the enemies of Your people be speedily extirpated; and may You swiftly uproot, break, crush and subdue the reign of wickedness speedily in our days. Blessed are You L-rd, who crushes enemies and subdues the wicked.
Hashem will deal with her in this world...
Judaism teaches that everything in creation has a purpose, nothing was created without a reason. So according to this we can understand what Kohelet meant by 'A time to love, a time to hate...'. While Love is the desired emotion there are occasions when hatred is the appropriate response. As long as the hatred is not inspired by anger (which often leads to foolish action) then the hate may be appropriate.
There is the concept "Hate the sin, Love the sinner" where we attempt to separate the sinner from the sin. If the sinner could make teshuva (repentance) then the sin would be forgiven and the sinner can be counted again with the righteous. But if a sinner does not stop sinning it is difficult to stop from hating the sinner.
We should have patience with people who make sins unintentionally. But intentional sin is hard to avoid feelings of hatred. But even so we should try hard to avoid anger and instead work toward a solution which will remove the sin with the least amount of suffering.
Typo corrected in last paragraph
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/158,2181233/What-is-the-Jewish-view-on-hate.html
What is the Jewish view on hate?
by Rabbi Mendy Hecht
A. Firstly, hate is misunderstood. Hate is misconstrued. Hate is equated with things it is not. Hate has been branded the darkest evil, so much so that it has become the most feared subject: discussing it is the height of political incorrectness--and squeamishness. But if any and all hate is evil, how can you hate Nazism? How can you hate racism? How can you hate rape and murder? How can you hate hate?
B. Let's define hate: Hate is a normal human emotion, like love. As a matter of fact, they are opposites. Hate rejects, love accepts. Hate is separation, love is connection. If you absolutely cannot hate, then you absolutely cannot love, either. It's just a question of what you do with them: hate can make you a hero (Batman hates muggers), love can get you locked up (stalking pretty girls). So is hate bad? Is love good? No, no: it depends on whom or what you're hating or loving.
Having safely established that the PC Police will not come after you upon admitting that hate is alive and well, let's lay down what Judaism's view on hate is.
1. You're squeamishness about hate is valid: most hate is wrong--but that's because most hate today is expressed by violating the civil, property or religious rights of others. On the other hand, if your hate for something so morally appalling and antithetical to your beliefs causes you to avoid or even civilly protest it, that is good hate. It is absolute rejection of something you ought to be absolutely rejecting. So it's not the hate as much as it is the crime. Hate has been equated with crime, because it's most often expressed by a crime.
2. Even good hate needs to be extremely controlled and limited. One of the most fundamental Mitzvahs of the Torah is the imperative to love your fellow as yourself. Hatred towards other human beings without legitimate cause is antithetical to that ideal (to say the least). Hate is only ok as a true rejection of something wrong, and may not be the an expression of your own offended ego, or your jealousy of someone else's ego. Hate must also be a catalyst for constructive growth, and not a cause for paralyzing depression or destruction.
I do not really understand why what EJA44 said is so wrong.
While today we do not do like he suggested the Torah clearly says that during the time of Moses the great Pinchas Ben Elazar Ben Aaron acted zealously and ran a spear through Cosbi and Zimri for having a forbidden relationship before the tent of Moses and the entire people. It was a Chillul Hashem and Pinchas's zealotry was rewarded by Hashem.
Of course this does not condone doing this today without the proper intentions and without a system of justice. We do not take law into our own hands...
LKZ,
I really care about you a lot and I know what you are trying to do in this thread. You explained very well why you cannot condemn her and I hope everyone else takes the time to understand what you have said.
Intermarriage is hurtful to the Jewish people, and it has happened in my family (and I even married a non-Jew from which I am currently divorced). I also understand how difficult it is and have mercy on those in similar situations.
I too do not wish death on her. But she is included in the curse on the informers and the heretics because at this time she is acting in a manner which appears to desecrate Hashem and his people. Although I have no intimate (or otherwise) knowledge of the case I usually trust Chaims opinion on this. Although he has now raised the threshold before he curses people (and I am so happy to observe this) I do not curse her name, only because she is in the category of informer.
I will repost the following article which discusses the concept of 'Rebuke' according to our Holy Torah's teachings.
I think it is relevant concerning when it becomes acceptable to curse Jews who have become enemies of our people. It is something which is much more common today than it was 100 years ago. We have the curse in the Amidah prayer against informers and heretics who do damage to the Jewish people.
We should not curse others for things which we may have problems with ourselves. This I believe is why some people have not joined in condemning this case. But even if we are not perfect we should be able to recognize that if a person joins the enemy and starts making public the enemies hatred of the Jews, then it is a chillul Hashem against the entire Jewish nation. We should hope that the person turns around and makes amends for their grave transgression.
The Torah implores us to rebuke our neighbor for their sins, and we should keep rebuking them up to a point before we consider them wicked and curse them. The general principles is not to curse others, but in order to prevent an evil person from accomplishing his or her goals and to warn others of the evils of this person, it may become acceptable to curse them publicly.
It is a fine line which we all should try to comprehend. We should not flippantly start cursing people we don't like. It cheapens the idea of curses, and it is dangerous because of things LKZ discussed (increasing judgment and scrutiny on your own transgressions).
From Rambams laws:
http://www.torah.org/learning/mlife/ch6law7b.html
Here is what Rambam says about Informers:
http://www.torah.org/learning/mlife/LOR3-12.html
There is no scriptural source for the concept 'no longer a Jew' according to the Torah both written and oral.
The concept of Karet is the closest thing to no longer being considered a Jew. It means 'cut off' as the Torah proscribes Karet for a variety of sins. But even Karet does not make a person 'not a Jew' but rather their connection to Hashem and his people have been severed. Those who are 'cut off' can still do Teshuva...
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1340046/jewish/Can-Someone-Be-Cut-Off-From-G-d.htm
http://www.torah.org/advanced/mikra/5757/br/dt.58.1.03.html
VIIKARET - VIOLATION OF THE SPECIAL NATURE OF AM YISRA'EL
The punishment which is introduced (along with death) into the Shabbat vocabulary in our Parashah is Karet - excision. Whatever Karet may mean, it implies some sort of disconnection or excommunication (by God) from the people of Yisra'el.
Do you have a scriptural source from Tanakh or Talmud to support the statement 'This woman is no longer Jewish'?
I have never heard that a soul can shed it's Jewish nature. Even a very wicked Jew is still a Jew when they die.
A Jewish soul which has sinned is judged with ultimate judgement for its sins which instilled hatred against Jews.
Also can you prove to anyone that she rises to the level of the halachic term 'rodef'? I am not familiar with what she has done to warrant that accusation. Are you interpolating what you think she may think onto what was really done or said?
Nobody can 'excommunicate' a Jew today. There is no Jewish body which has the power to do it. Although within a community a person can be excommunicated (only in social issues).
I just checked out the facebook page and it may be...
From jlaw.com :
http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/excom2.html
II. Jewish Law on Excluding
Let us look into what Rambam says about the halachic status of excommunication or ostracism.
http://www.torah.org/learning/rambam/talmudtorah/tt6.12.html
I missed it, who exactly is 'bashing' you?
I see people have become a bit sensitive over what seems to be nothing.
It is possible to agree with Chaim and also have your own opinion too.
If you see my very first message in the thread I clearly state that there are informers and heretics who we are supposed to curse. I have done nothing but support Chaims case.
But I also do not join in cursing her (by name) for the reasons which LKZ has mentioned. While I surely condemn her for her choices I also believe she (as all those born a Jew) has hope for making teshuva. That is between her and Hashem, and I join those who condemn her...
I don't know why these threads always end up so personal...
PS: Read what I wrote in a previous post about cursing the informers and heretics versus cursing a person by name.
Oy vey.. I am really growing sick of this thread.. Also, Muman, I respect you and think you have a good heart and a lot of knowledge, but the fact you believe a traitor to the Jewish race has the ability to do teshuva, regardless of their actions is mind-boggling and I am sure also contradicts many of the teachings of JUdaism. I have met people, including lesbian rabbis who think they can interpret the Talmud or Torah in any way, shape or form to promote their cause, it doesn't mean I will agree with them, even being a beginner in halachic knowledge, I can recognize some core foundations of our faith, as I have read the entire Jewish Bible and do have the basic knowledge.
You are right EJA44, you have a lot to learn when it comes to Torah and Talmud...
You cannot just say stuff and claim it is the truth. Everything I have said is 100% true according to Talmud & Torah.
You have no concept of who can make Teshuva and who cannot. You have never attended a Yom Kippur service or else you never listened to the Rabbi discuss how Teshuva works. You only think you know what it means... And this is why you have so many problems understanding Judaism.
I can bring you many Talmudic examples of Jews who went astray and returned, and their Teshuva was eventually accepted. But you don't want to hear it because you just want to hate another. If that is not true you sure don't express yourself very well.
As an informer and a denier of Torah she is cursed as a part of this group. But when cursing others you should be extremely aware that your own sins will be judged for the negative. That is your choice, and you will live with it.
EJA44,
Bring some examples of those traitors who were executed and we can discuss what the teachings of the Talmud are.
Every Jew is a Jew to the day he dies... This is a fact of the Torah. Deniers of Torah are considered heretics.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1269075/jewish/Is-a-Jew-Who-Converts-Still-Jewish.htm
Is a Jew Who Converts Still Jewish?
By Zalman Nelson
My sister was baptized and has since married and had a child. My mother claims the child is Jewish, but how could that be? If Judaism is a religion, if someone leaves it, she’s no longer Jewish, right?
Response:
Logically, I would have to agree with you. If Judaism is a religion, then someone who doesn’t believe in the religion should be no longer Jewish. The reality, however, is that it doesn’t work that way.
Throughout the Tanach, we find Jews breaking every facet of their covenant with G‑d, joining and forming all sorts of idolatrous cults and heathen practices. Yet when the prophets chide them, they are called “My people, Israel.”
EJA44,
Ask yourself this question and try to answer it...
Why did Hashem allow Ishmael to live when he was dying of dehydration in the desert when he and his mother Hagar were thrown out of Avraham and Sarahs house? Hashem could have let him die there, he knew that in the future his children would be enemies of his beloved people Israel, yet he saved him...
The ways of Hashem are beyond our comprehension. We should curse those who fall within the parameters where such curses are warranted. But we should not allow our curses against Jews to become a matter of hatred.
I say again that her sin is great and her wickedness is condemnable... I curse her as a informer and heretic. But I do hold hope that she one day will rectify her sins.
Remember that everything that happens only happens because Hashem allows it to happen. We must follow the law of Hashem, and keep the Torah, and when we do we will destroy the evil.
Tag,
I believe LKZ is correct about a lot of the secular Jews today... They are considered as if they were kidnapped at birth by pirates or wolves...
It was a part of what I posted above concerning whether a Jew is still Jewish after he sins...
I do not know the specifics about this case. In general a Jew who has lost his way, and even may flirt with heresy and informing, can be considered as if they are not acting as a proper Jew because they were kidnapped at birth.
I believe that was the concept which LKZ was referring to.
I have stated repeatedly how I consider this case.
For the source of this 'captured by gentiles' idea see Talmud Mesechet Shabbos 68a...
http://halakhah.com/shabbath/shabbath_68.html
And Tag and everyone else please be aware I am not talking about this particular case... I have said she falls into the category of informer/heretic... So she is on her own... She should be rebuked though by those who have the ability to change her... If possible.
EJA44,
I am sorry you have come to this. I was a big supporter of you and I tried to help you. But you have no understanding of what being Jewish is.
I have never defended what is being done by this person. I have condemned it from the very beginning. Because of your failings you attribute things to me which I have not said. You say things which have no foundation because you feel you have the right to say such things. But you will learn that this is not the way Judaism works.
It is worthless for me to worry about your problems at this time. I hope and pray that some day you wake up from your delusions about what Judaism is and really study what it means to be a Jew. You and your false beliefs are what is wrong with the Jewish people. You are as bad as the reform for trying to make up your own Torah.
The students of Rabbi Akiva died because they did not respect each other. I attempted to respect you and what did I get, nothing but denigration from you (who denigrates himself regularly).
You are free to leave JTF because I am beginning to join those who think you came here to create problems. You put on a good act which had me almost fooled... But as I said, everyone who is born Jewish is Jewish for their life, and you too can take the initiative and do some learning.
בס''ד
Muman, after reading all of the posts in this thread, I agree that you did not act improperly toward EveryJewA44. The two main culprits here were LKZ and EveryJewA44 who were flaming each other relentlessly. So I apologize for including you in the group.
Personally, I have no problem with cursing this ugly leftist self-hating slut, who through no doing of her own, popped out of the womb of some Jewish woman, unfortunately for the rest of us decent Jews, making her a Jew.
I also have no problem whatsoever with Every Jew's original post on this thread. And quite frankly, I don't understand why his post was so problematic, being that he was conveying the same exact thing as Chaim.
So for those of you who have a problem with Jewish members cursing evil self-hating traitorous Jews like this beotch, then you also have a problem with Chaim.
Just let that sink in...
Like everyone cursed her. I'm still 50% sure that she's rodef. The question is whether or not we can just wish death on her, or say "she should die now", because she might be a victim of the brainwashing, and therefore maybe we can't say she should be killed by us right now until we have given her a chance to hear the truth. It wasn't even a ruling, it was a debate. Everyjew then cried. Not my fault he's a [censored], but after a bit it became obvious even his most basic intentions in cursing her had nothing to do with Judaism or what Hashem wants, he's into "purify the race" "death for the glory of the race" "death to race traitors" and a bunch of goyish concepts, so I attacked him on that.
Personally, I have no problem with cursing this ugly leftist self-hating slut, who through no doing of her own, popped out of the womb of some Jewish woman, unfortunately for the rest of us decent Jews, making her a Jew.
I also have no problem whatsoever with Every Jew's original post on this thread. And quite frankly, I don't understand why his post was so problematic, being that he was conveying the same exact thing as Chaim.
So for those of you who have a problem with Jewish members cursing evil self-hating traitorous Jews like this beotch, then you also have a problem with Chaim.
Just let that sink in...
On a completely different issue we should also be careful of saying 'so-and-so should die' on a public forum...
In some places saying such a thing may break a law, and it may inspire a crazy person to actually carry out our desire. In some way we are inciting violence against that person by saying 'so-and-so must die'...
I don't think the forum wants to wade in that question.
Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, and/or social affiliation. First used to refer to speakers of a common language and then to denote national affiliations, in the 17th century, people began to use the term to relate to observable physical traits. Such use promoted hierarchies favorable to differing ethnic groups. Starting from the 19th century, the term was often used, in a taxonomic sense, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype.[1][2][3]
Personally, I have no problem with cursing this ugly leftist self-hating slut, who through no doing of her own, popped out of the womb of some Jewish woman, unfortunately for the rest of us decent Jews, making her a Jew.
I also have no problem whatsoever with Every Jew's original post on this thread. And quite frankly, I don't understand why his post was so problematic, being that he was conveying the same exact thing as Chaim.
So for those of you who have a problem with Jewish members cursing evil self-hating traitorous Jews like this beotch, then you also have a problem with Chaim.
Just let that sink in...
I agree Lisa. I don't know why the JTFers that agree with this started getting flamed.
It is forbidden to curse any Israelite, and there are special prohibitions against cursing a judge or the king, as it says "You shall not curse a deaf person",23 and it says "You shall not curse judges and a prince of your nation you shall not curse".24,h
23. Lev. 19:14
24. Ex. 22:27
Just so you know Muman... I don't think he was talking about you.
I did not think he was talking about me. Thanks..Correct, I did not mean you.
I've been away for a while; just got back now.
Chaim, EJA44 did nothing wrong, and neither did I. We were defending you!
The problem in this thread is one member that is portraying himself as a holier-than-thou expert in all things Judaism, when that is most clearly and obviously not the case.
Sometimes one has to call a spade a spade.