JTF.ORG Forum
Torah and Jewish Idea => Torah and Jewish Idea => Topic started by: decimos on August 29, 2007, 05:36:27 PM
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my first post and thread so go easy! ok,im a christian but i do not practise however.i do subscribe to its priciples.Having said that,i believe the jews are the chosen of God,i believe that all muslims are terrorists purely on the basis of what i have seen and heard and the way the spew their crass doctrine.i do not believe you can have moderate muslims.i believe as in the first crusades 1 is happening now! but the thing of it is i have difficulty understanding the guiding principles of your faith,i am a gentile therfore"While the Christians do generally accept the Hebrew Bible as truly from God, many of them (those who accept the so-called divinity of Jesus) are idolaters according to the Torah, punishable by death, and certainly will not enjoy the World to Come. But it is not just being a member of a denomination in which the majority are believers in the Trinity that is idolatry, but personal idolatrous practice, whatever the individual's affiliation." this excerpt was taken from a translation in the Torah,i dont know if it is true?but is this close? many christians believe the divinity of jesus which,if that is the case comes in to direct opposition to the torah!.The nazi muslim terrorist also deny the divinity of Christ,putting them in direct opposition with the basic tenet of christian beliefs... some one is right some one is wrong.this is my problem.i believe that the word of God is some where.the talmud is a book that tells the story i think.if a Rabbi would care to help understand i would be thankful.and im interested to learn more about Rabbi Kahane.now with all that said and done if i have misspelt and holy words aor names,im sorry.to the muslims,tough.
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This may be a start, decimos.
You can also post questions to our Rabbi, Lubab in the Torah and Jewish idea board.
http://www.geocities.com/buddychai/Religion/Jesus.html
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Welcome Decimos.
While Jews don't believe in the divinity of Christ, that is not to say they believe all Christians are idolaters, (sp?) or that they should be put to death. As I'm sure you know, Judaism does not believe in getting others to be Jewish. Gentiles who are righteous and who follow the seven Noahide laws are also promised a place in the world to come.
Now regarding theology and who is right or wrong, that could be the subject of an entire web site, and that's not for here. JTF welcomes all good people who want to fight against Islamofacism, multiculturalism and the Left.
Welcome again.
Lisa
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We can ask who is right when the Messiah comes, and ask him "Is this your first or second visit too Israel?" Until then, we both have a common enemy. Lets deal with this first, then when the world is safe, we can argue about "who is right."
Right now, we have muslims invading, killing, murdering, raping , pillaging any thing they can find that is not islamic. I try to find ways Jews and Christians are in the same mindset. I am a Gentile, that does not believe in spreading my Theology openly with anyone unless they ask me. Besides that, we have google. In this day and age, what's the point of me waving my Bible around like a maniac saying 'Be a Christian!!!"
I think by now, we all understand our different belief systems. That being texted, how many mujahadin were splatted today? ;)
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thanks for ur welcome, some thing u said there was said to me by a girl i was at school with some 20 years ago " Gentiles who are righteous and who follow the seven Noahide laws are also promised a place in the world to come."twice in my life i heard that now,how am i so ignorant ? i will look up the "the 7 laws" i thought i had a handel on religion's but my eyes are opening.thank you.
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decimos,
There is nothing wrong with being ignorant, it is only when you refuse to learn that makes it bad. Where are you from ?
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thanks for ur welcome, some thing u said there was said to me by a girl i was at school with some 20 years ago " Gentiles who are righteous and who follow the seven Noahide laws are also promised a place in the world to come."twice in my life i heard that now,how am i so ignorant ? i will look up the "the 7 laws" i thought i had a handel on religion's but my eyes are opening.thank you.
Here are some good links regarding the Sheva Mitzvot (7 laws):
http://www.noachidechassid.com/news.php
http://www.geocities.com/~Alyza/noachide/noahrole.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=530158
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Welcome Decimos.
While Jews don't believe in the divinity of Christ, that is not to say they believe all Christians are idolaters, (sp?) or that they should be put to death. As I'm sure you know, Judaism does not believe in getting others to be Jewish. Gentiles who are righteous and who follow the seven Noahide laws are also promised a place in the world to come.
Now regarding theology and who is right or wrong, that could be the subject of an entire web site, and that's not for here. JTF welcomes all good people who want to fight against Islamofacism, multiculturalism and the Left.
Welcome again.
Lisa
Excuse me, please see the Rambam's ruling on christianity, in which, he declares it Avodah Zarah. Those who say that yushke was the moshiach, may not be comitting idolatry, but the trinity is avodah zarah acc. to the rambam.
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Welcome Decimos.
While Jews don't believe in the divinity of Christ, that is not to say they believe all Christians are idolaters, (sp?) or that they should be put to death. As I'm sure you know, Judaism does not believe in getting others to be Jewish. Gentiles who are righteous and who follow the seven Noahide laws are also promised a place in the world to come.
Now regarding theology and who is right or wrong, that could be the subject of an entire web site, and that's not for here. JTF welcomes all good people who want to fight against Islamofacism, multiculturalism and the Left.
Welcome again.
Lisa
Excuse me, please see the Rambam's ruling on christianity, in which, he declares it Avodah Zarah. Those who say that yushke was the moshiach, may not be comitting idolatry, but the trinity is avodah zarah acc. to the rambam.
Only because they do not understand it.
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Welcome Decimos.
While Jews don't believe in the divinity of Christ, that is not to say they believe all Christians are idolaters, (sp?) or that they should be put to death. As I'm sure you know, Judaism does not believe in getting others to be Jewish. Gentiles who are righteous and who follow the seven Noahide laws are also promised a place in the world to come.
Now regarding theology and who is right or wrong, that could be the subject of an entire web site, and that's not for here. JTF welcomes all good people who want to fight against Islamofacism, multiculturalism and the Left.
Welcome again.
Lisa
Excuse me, please see the Rambam's ruling on christianity, in which, he declares it Avodah Zarah. Those who say that yushke was the moshiach, may not be comitting idolatry, but the trinity is avodah zarah acc. to the rambam.
Only because they do not understand it.
The Rambam ruled on this matter concerning the divinity of jesus, the ruling may even extedn to his mesiahhood, but I do not know. Either way, mainstream xtianity says that yushke was G-d incarnate, and that is avodah zarah. If your only argument for your belief not being avodah zara is that Jews like Rambam don't understand it, then I rest my case.
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Excuse me, please see the Rambam's ruling on christianity, in which, he declares it Avodah Zarah. Those who say that yushke was the moshiach, may not be committing idolatry, but the trinity is avodah zarah acc. to the rambam.end quote...I'm not fluent in Hebrew at all but i can google! but what your saying contradicts its self there.but I'm probably wrong ???
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oh sorry.im from England.
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Excuse me, please see the Rambam's ruling on christianity, in which, he declares it Avodah Zarah. Those who say that yushke was the moshiach, may not be committing idolatry, but the trinity is avodah zarah acc. to the rambam.end quote...I'm not fluent in Hebrew at all but i can google! but what your saying contradicts its self there.but I'm probably wrong ???
How did what I say contradict itself? I do not understand what you are saying. If it is about the idea that believing in yushke as moshaich may be avodah zarah, i honestly do not know about that, it is a possibility, but certainly ascribing any divinity as g-d incarnate or anything of the sort, is avodah zarah acc. to rambam.
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Chakma613, no one here is disputing what the Rambam said about Christianity. But from my experience, most Jews do not go around pointing their fingers at Christians and saying "Oh look, there's an idol worshipper. Let's kill him."
Also, the topic of the Trinity and whether or not it's Avoda Zara is not appropriate for this forum. If you want to have a discussion with Decimos, you can private message each other. But this is Chaim's forum, and he welcomes Christians and all good people here. We even have at least one Hindu member. So please keep everything civil.
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Chakma613, no one here is disputing what the Rambam said about Christianity. But from my experience, most Jews do not go around pointing their fingers at Christians and saying "Oh look, there's an idol worshipper. Let's kill him."
Also, the topic of the Trinity and whether or not it's Avoda Zara is not appropriate for this forum. If you want to have a discussion with Decimos, you can private message each other. But this is Chaim's forum, and he welcomes Christians and all good people here. We even have at least one Hindu member. So please keep everything civil.
I'm not attacking christians, I was attacking your statement that xtianity was not idolatry, when in fact it is. You haven't the right to tell someone that what they are doing is ok when it is not, you don't have to say anything, but you certainly cannot tell them falsities like that. I never say to christians that they are idolatrous - i may think it, but i don't attack people. I do however, attack statements like the one you made that stated that xtianity is not avodah zarah.
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She is the Mod, she has every right. (http://www.buzzle.com/img/articleImages/551110-17.jpg) This peace of filth wants us dead, let us move on.
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i can see your point,my problem has been i want to hear the word of God,so far all ive heard is the word of man,a jumbled message made purposly to serve his own agenda,so when i stumbled accros this forum i looked at certain things.the bible the torah the talmud,with the last two i need to look into and i have high hopes of finding the word of god.
on a side issue does the torah beieve the quran Avodah Zarah?if the answer is yes ? then why doesnt the jews do to them as they do unto you.
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The koran is a bastard book, ripped from the Torah.
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i can see your point,my problem has been i want to hear the word of G-d,so far all ive heard is the word of man,a jumbled message made purposly to serve his own agenda,so when i stumbled accros this forum i looked at certain things.the bible the torah the talmud,with the last two i need to look into and i have high hopes of finding the word of G-d.
on a side issue does the torah beieve the quran Avodah Zarah?if the answer is yes ? then why doesnt the jews do to them as they do unto you.
While the koran is a hate book, it is not avodah zarah as ruled by the rambam. BUt think of it this way - mein kompf was not avodah zarah, neither was communism manifesto, both were evil, insidious books that killed hundreds of milions of people - just like the Koran, but it doesn't make it idolatry.
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Chakma613, just as JTF is against people trying to convert Jews, we are also against Jews telling Christians and others, either directly, or via implication that their religion is idolatery (sp?) or that it's wrong in any way.
For the purpose of this movement, we work with people whose religious beliefs do not always match our own. That's life. Decimos seems geniunely interested in our movement. So I don't think it's appropriate to scare him away by bickering about what is and is not idol worship.
In other words, if you want to continue pontificating about how Christianity is idol worship, or how no one is allowed to have differing opinions than your beloved rabbis, do so elsewhere.
Consider this your first and only warning!
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Chakma613, just as JTF is against people trying to convert Jews, we are also against Jews telling Christians and others, either directly, or via implication that their religion is idolatery (sp?) or that it's wrong in any way.
For the purpose of this movement, we work with people whose religious beliefs do not always match our own. That's life. Decimos seems geniunely interested in our movement. So I don't think it's appropriate to scare him away by bickering about what is and is not idol worship.
In other words, if you want to continue pontificating about how Christianity is idol worship, or how no one is allowed to have differing opinions than your beloved rabbis, do so elsewhere.
Consider this your first and only warning!
On the surface, your idea is a good one. However, I canot allow you to spread sheker about torah. You stated that xtianity is not avodah zarah, and I had to correct you, this is my responsibility, and indeed mitzvah. I see nothing wrong with what I said - had you not told the poster in question what tyou told him about xtianity, I would not have said anything.
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Chakma613, just as JTF is against people trying to convert Jews, we are also against Jews telling Christians and others, either directly, or via implication that their religion is idolatery (sp?) or that it's wrong in any way.
For the purpose of this movement, we work with people whose religious beliefs do not always match our own. That's life. Decimos seems geniunely interested in our movement. So I don't think it's appropriate to scare him away by bickering about what is and is not idol worship.
In other words, if you want to continue pontificating about how Christianity is idol worship, or how no one is allowed to have differing opinions than your beloved rabbis, do so elsewhere.
Consider this your first and only warning!
We're in Elul now, just a reminder...
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Gotta leave this thread, I'm getting a bit fired up.
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Chakma613,
Chaim Ben Pesach, the owner of this forum, would never in million years tell a Christian that his religion is considered Avoda Zara. He would very politely explain that Jews are not allowed to believe in the Trinity, and that it should not stop all of us from working together. Therefore I stand my initial response.
So if you have a problem with that, you are free to start your own forum, and or blog.
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guys id like to think that something good has come out of my thread.it seems to me that the Torah has been around alot longer than Christian version of beliefs.and i have read the "7-laws"which apply to Jews and gentiles.and if the Torah is the word of god then i need to read it.I'm sick and tired of naziislamists spreading their word by force----they want to kill all Jews and gentiles their stinking prophet{my arse} decrees it.i will not sit by and allow any of my children force fed that filth.Ive already had trouble with it at my sons school.i pulled him out of religious education when they started to study Islam! i told the headmaster that my son has no interest in Islam therefore would not benefit him,however once studies of Christians and the Jews began,he would attend..to my suprise he smiled and gave him 3 days excusal from RE.not alone i thought ;)
but the spread of Islam is real.it has to be stopped.but i need clear direction maybe the Torah will give it to me.thats all i wanted to ask and say.and no body is coercing me to do any thing except god will perhaps..damn I'm confused
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decimos,
Let me help ya out a bit, while I'm a bit calm. Let's have the Military kill the mujahadin, then bicker about what Jews and Christians believe in.
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Chakma613, just as JTF is against people trying to convert Jews, we are also against Jews telling Christians and others, either directly, or via implication that their religion is idolatery (sp?) or that it's wrong in any way.
For the purpose of this movement, we work with people whose religious beliefs do not always match our own. That's life. Decimos seems geniunely interested in our movement. So I don't think it's appropriate to scare him away by bickering about what is and is not idol worship.
In other words, if you want to continue pontificating about how Christianity is idol worship, or how no one is allowed to have differing opinions than your beloved rabbis, do so elsewhere.
Consider this your first and only warning!
On the surface, your idea is a good one. However, I canot allow you to spread sheker about torah. You stated that xtianity is not avodah zarah, and I had to correct you, this is my responsibility, and indeed mitzvah. I see nothing wrong with what I said - had you not told the poster in question what tyou told him about xtianity, I would not have said anything.
As you have not desisted, I feel compelled to answer you.
You say that my faith Christianity is idol worship. And yet, I ahve no idols, no pictures or statues or any other physical objects that I bow to. I have but one God that I serve, the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. Now, I believe that God has three components to him, just like a tree has roots trunk and branches and is yet one tree, God as the creator of all things (including trees) can surely be more complex than a tree, can he not?
decimos: If you have any questions about Christianity please contact me with the pm feature.
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Chakma613,
Chaim Ben Pesach, the owner of this forum, would never in million years tell a Christian that his religion is considered Avoda Zara. He would very politely explain that Jews are not allowed to believe in the Trinity, and that it should not stop all of us from working together. Therefore I stand my initial response.
So if you have a problem with that, you are free to start your own forum, and or blog.
You have yet to answer why you blatantly told a fallacy about Judaism, with full knowledge of our beliefs. You have yet to answer my question as to why you told this person a fallacy.
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As you have not desisted, I feel compelled to answer you.
You say that my faith Christianity is idol worship. And yet, I ahve no idols, no pictures or statues or any other physical objects that I bow to. I have but one G-d that I serve, the G-d of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. Now, I believe that G-d has three components to him, just like a tree has roots trunk and branches and is yet one tree, G-d as the creator of all things (including trees) can surely be more complex than a tree, can he not?
decimos: If you have any questions about Christianity please contact me with the pm feature.
Here he goes again with his heresy-by-stealth!!!
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Chakma613, just as JTF is against people trying to convert Jews, we are also against Jews telling Christians and others, either directly, or via implication that their religion is idolatery (sp?) or that it's wrong in any way.
For the purpose of this movement, we work with people whose religious beliefs do not always match our own. That's life. Decimos seems geniunely interested in our movement. So I don't think it's appropriate to scare him away by bickering about what is and is not idol worship.
In other words, if you want to continue pontificating about how Christianity is idol worship, or how no one is allowed to have differing opinions than your beloved rabbis, do so elsewhere.
Consider this your first and only warning!
On the surface, your idea is a good one. However, I canot allow you to spread sheker about torah. You stated that xtianity is not avodah zarah, and I had to correct you, this is my responsibility, and indeed mitzvah. I see nothing wrong with what I said - had you not told the poster in question what tyou told him about xtianity, I would not have said anything.
As you have not desisted, I feel compelled to answer you.
You say that my faith Christianity is idol worship. And yet, I ahve no idols, no pictures or statues or any other physical objects that I bow to. I have but one G-d that I serve, the G-d of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. Now, I believe that G-d has three components to him, just like a tree has roots trunk and branches and is yet one tree, G-d as the creator of all things (including trees) can surely be more complex than a tree, can he not?
decimos: If you have any questions about Christianity please contact me with the pm feature.
Your statement is in contrast to our authority rambam(mainmonides), who rules something QUITE different. You are comparing G-d to a tree - you have clearly been taken in by polytheistic thought, as th8is is the oldest and most primitive argument made for polytheism, to say that G-d is made up of many parts cv's.
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Chakma613, you have been nothing but trouble, ever since you started responding to my posts.
So don't let the door hit you on the way out.
You are banned!
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As you have not desisted, I feel compelled to answer you.
You say that my faith Christianity is idol worship. And yet, I ahve no idols, no pictures or statues or any other physical objects that I bow to. I have but one G-d that I serve, the G-d of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. Now, I believe that G-d has three components to him, just like a tree has roots trunk and branches and is yet one tree, G-d as the creator of all things (including trees) can surely be more complex than a tree, can he not?
decimos: If you have any questions about Christianity please contact me with the pm feature.
Here he goes again with his heresy-by-stealth!!!
Idol worship is far more than just worshiping a physical entity. Avodah Zarah consists of worshiping any detity, physical or otherwise, other than Hashem. He does not understand this, but I am not caling him an idolater, because of a complex halacha that I will not explain now.
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i understand what you are saying.but every journey has a first step,mine has started i need to be prepared physically and spiritually for the road.theres an old British Army saying "preparation prevents piss poor performance" and while i too rejoice in every muhj getting slotted.wars are sometimes one thru knowledge, know your enemy.lets face it Islam is all about subjugation and enforced law, religious law.if that law is wrong i know this because i have understood what is right,my free will tells me that.sometimes you have to understand a thing to defeat a thing.and i say this to you with all due respect.
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Chakma613, just as JTF is against people trying to convert Jews, we are also against Jews telling Christians and others, either directly, or via implication that their religion is idolatery (sp?) or that it's wrong in any way.
For the purpose of this movement, we work with people whose religious beliefs do not always match our own. That's life. Decimos seems geniunely interested in our movement. So I don't think it's appropriate to scare him away by bickering about what is and is not idol worship.
In other words, if you want to continue pontificating about how Christianity is idol worship, or how no one is allowed to have differing opinions than your beloved rabbis, do so elsewhere.
Consider this your first and only warning!
On the surface, your idea is a good one. However, I canot allow you to spread sheker about torah. You stated that xtianity is not avodah zarah, and I had to correct you, this is my responsibility, and indeed mitzvah. I see nothing wrong with what I said - had you not told the poster in question what tyou told him about xtianity, I would not have said anything.
As you have not desisted, I feel compelled to answer you.
You say that my faith Christianity is idol worship. And yet, I ahve no idols, no pictures or statues or any other physical objects that I bow to. I have but one G-d that I serve, the G-d of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. Now, I believe that G-d has three components to him, just like a tree has roots trunk and branches and is yet one tree, G-d as the creator of all things (including trees) can surely be more complex than a tree, can he not?
decimos: If you have any questions about Christianity please contact me with the pm feature.
Your statement is in contrast to our authority rambam(mainmonides), who rules something QUITE different. You are comparing G-d to a tree - you have clearly been taken in by polytheistic thought, as th8is is the oldest and most primitive argument made for polytheism, to say that G-d is made up of many parts cv's.
Are you telling me God cannot be more complex than a tree? If you want an example in the Torah of God being shown as a trinity, try Genesis chapter 18 verse 1.
I hold myself to no authority but that of God, the rambam were men, not God.
Also, ignore newman's comments about me he decided to hate me a long time ago, and will criticise anything I do or say as a matter of principle.
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Chakma613, you have been nothing but trouble, ever since you started responding to my posts.
So don't let the door hit you on the way out.
You are banned!
Good one, Lisa!
Boot a religious Jew out but keep a christian missionary!!!
Great idea!
(sarcasm off)
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Newman, you might want to check out my thread on Rabbi Ovadia Yossef, and Chaimfan's thread on polygamy before you rush to judgement.
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Chakma613, just as JTF is against people trying to convert Jews, we are also against Jews telling Christians and others, either directly, or via implication that their religion is idolatery (sp?) or that it's wrong in any way.
For the purpose of this movement, we work with people whose religious beliefs do not always match our own. That's life. Decimos seems geniunely interested in our movement. So I don't think it's appropriate to scare him away by bickering about what is and is not idol worship.
In other words, if you want to continue pontificating about how Christianity is idol worship, or how no one is allowed to have differing opinions than your beloved rabbis, do so elsewhere.
Consider this your first and only warning!
On the surface, your idea is a good one. However, I canot allow you to spread sheker about torah. You stated that xtianity is not avodah zarah, and I had to correct you, this is my responsibility, and indeed mitzvah. I see nothing wrong with what I said - had you not told the poster in question what tyou told him about xtianity, I would not have said anything.
As you have not desisted, I feel compelled to answer you.
You say that my faith Christianity is idol worship. And yet, I ahve no idols, no pictures or statues or any other physical objects that I bow to. I have but one G-d that I serve, the G-d of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. Now, I believe that G-d has three components to him, just like a tree has roots trunk and branches and is yet one tree, G-d as the creator of all things (including trees) can surely be more complex than a tree, can he not?
decimos: If you have any questions about Christianity please contact me with the pm feature.
FTF,
Missionizing is not permitted on this forum.
I was not preaching, (I do not recoginise the word missionizing), I was merely responding to the attack he launched against my faith.
Lisa: I really don't think you should have banned chakma613.
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Chakma613, just as JTF is against people trying to convert Jews, we are also against Jews telling Christians and others, either directly, or via implication that their religion is idolatery (sp?) or that it's wrong in any way.
For the purpose of this movement, we work with people whose religious beliefs do not always match our own. That's life. Decimos seems geniunely interested in our movement. So I don't think it's appropriate to scare him away by bickering about what is and is not idol worship.
In other words, if you want to continue pontificating about how Christianity is idol worship, or how no one is allowed to have differing opinions than your beloved rabbis, do so elsewhere.
Consider this your first and only warning!
On the surface, your idea is a good one. However, I canot allow you to spread sheker about torah. You stated that xtianity is not avodah zarah, and I had to correct you, this is my responsibility, and indeed mitzvah. I see nothing wrong with what I said - had you not told the poster in question what tyou told him about xtianity, I would not have said anything.
As you have not desisted, I feel compelled to answer you.
You say that my faith Christianity is idol worship. And yet, I ahve no idols, no pictures or statues or any other physical objects that I bow to. I have but one G-d that I serve, the G-d of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. Now, I believe that G-d has three components to him, just like a tree has roots trunk and branches and is yet one tree, G-d as the creator of all things (including trees) can surely be more complex than a tree, can he not?
decimos: If you have any questions about Christianity please contact me with the pm feature.
FTF,
Missionizing is not permitted on this forum.
(I do not recoginise the word missionizing)
Because you're an unrepentent missionary who thinks it's your right to attempt to spiritually murder the Children of Israel.
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A missionary is one who preaches to non-christians, the verb is preach not missionise. (note that missionise is not in the dictionary...)
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Newman, chill out. FTF is doing nothing of the sort. I agree with your viewpoints more than his most of the time but I will stand up for my fellow Christian here. Actually, it's not even about that. He is not doing the things you are accusing him of, regardless of his faith.
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guys i didnt mean for all this to start.i just wanted to no more about jewish religous observence an Rabbi kahane
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Come on guys, does anybody REALLY think that this Chakma fellow wasn't a troll?
He is most likely Adam613, but even if not, he is clearly aping the views of Bnei Elim and Revava. We don't need garbage like this on the board.
Lisa was 100% right and it is a shame he was not banned sooner, like last night when he was committing the abominable sin of deifying a human (Rabbi Ovadia Yosef).
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Newman, chill out. FTF is doing nothing of the sort. I agree with your viewpoints more than his most of the time but I will stand up for my fellow Christian here. Actually, it's not even about that. He is not doing the things you are accusing him of, regardless of his faith.
BALONEY!
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Lisa: I really don't think you should have banned chakma613.
FTF, he was flaming our faith. You often speak out in defense of Christianity here, and this piece of dreck was desecrating us.
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Newman, you are getting a little over-the-top in these supposed defenses of Jews. They are starting to look insincere. Nobody was missionizing.
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Lisa: I really don't think you should have banned chakma613.
FTF, he was flaming our faith. You often speak out in defense of Christianity here, and this piece of dreck was desecrating us.
The beliefs he was stating are shared by a large proportion of the members of this forum, sure there's a rule against stating them, but that doesn't change the fact that they hold them.
Regarding newman, he's also on a different forum that I'm a member of, all the posts of his that I've seen there have contained criticism of Christianity, to him our faith is dirt and to say it is anything but is a grievous crime.
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FTF, you knock it off too. Most forum members DO NOT attack Christianity.
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Some Jews, espaciely the orthodox jews do believe Christianety is Avoda Zara of idols .
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Newman, you are getting a little over-the-top in these supposed defenses of Jews. They are starting to look insincere. Nobody was missionizing.
He has shouted his (supposed) right to missionise to Jews since the Allen-t affair and NEVER recanted publicly.
He also missionises by stealth on this forum by demanding Jews adhere to un-Jewish, anti-Torah christian principles like 'loving their enemies'
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FTF, you knock it off too. Most forum members DO NOT attack Christianity.
No, but they do belive that it is wrong.
Newman, looking at: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
Number 53, Jews are to love strangers.
Number 31, Jews are not to take revenge.
Number 32, Jews are not to bear a grudge.
That pretty much covers the ideas which I have suggested are good, I have never commanded anyone to hold any of my beliefs (including the three I have there stated) though.
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FTF, you knock it off too. Most forum members DO NOT attack Christianity.
No, but they do belive that it is wrong.
They think it's wrong not attacking Christianety ?
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FTF, you knock it off too. Most forum members DO NOT attack Christianity.
No, but they do belive that it is wrong.
They think it's wrong not attacking Christianety ?
No, I was saying that many members of this forum think that christianity is wrong. Many of them share the views of the person who has just been banned, therefore I don't think he should ahve been banned.
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FTF, you knock it off too. Most forum members DO NOT attack Christianity.
No, but they do belive that it is wrong.
Newman, looking at: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
Number 53, Jews are to love strangers.
Number 31, Jews are not to take revenge.
Number 32, Jews are not to bear a grudge.
That pretty much covers the idea which I have suggested are good, I have never commanded anyone to hold any of my beliefs though.
None of that referrs to those desiring to destroy the Jewish people.
Chaim has addressed this question already.
Ask Lubab about the context and stop taking lines from Torah and placing them out of context to try and fit YOUR theology.
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Not many here share the believe that Christianety is Avoda Zara of idols, but sure most (if not all) jews here believe that Christianety is Avoda Zara, because it's just does (acorrding to Judaism of course) .
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FTF, you knock it off too. Most forum members DO NOT attack Christianity.
No, but they do belive that it is wrong.
Newman, looking at: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
Number 53, Jews are to love strangers.
Number 31, Jews are not to take revenge.
Number 32, Jews are not to bear a grudge.
That pretty much covers the idea which I have suggested are good, I have never commanded anyone to hold any of my beliefs though.
None of that referrs to those desiring to destroy the Jewish people.
Chaim has addressed this question already.
Ask Lubab about the context and stop taking lines from Torah and placing them out of context to try and fit YOUR theology.
I'm not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, merely explaining them as I have been asked to do so.
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I was discussing this with Yacov, who says it's not Avoda Zara for the Christians themselves, but that Jews are not allowed to believe in a Trinity. Can we just leave it at that?
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FTF, you knock it off too. Most forum members DO NOT attack Christianity.
No, but they do belive that it is wrong.
Newman, looking at: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
Number 53, Jews are to love strangers.
Number 31, Jews are not to take revenge.
Number 32, Jews are not to bear a grudge.
That pretty much covers the idea which I have suggested are good, I have never commanded anyone to hold any of my beliefs though.
None of that referrs to those desiring to destroy the Jewish people.
Chaim has addressed this question already.
Ask Lubab about the context and stop taking lines from Torah and placing them out of context to try and fit YOUR theology.
I'm not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, merely explaining them as I have been asked to do so.
Another way of saying "I'm missionising".
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Newman, you look for every old excuse to bash Christianity. Gimme a break. You are very transparent.
FTF, I'm not gonna be a sucker for your "JTF Hates Christians" act. It's old, it's stale, it has no credibility, and nobody buys it. Nobody thinks either that Christianity preaches mercy to the enemies of Israel. Show me some Scripture in the New Testament that says that.
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John :
8:44. You are of your father the devil: and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning: and he stood not in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
He's talking about the jews .
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John :
8:44. You are of your father the devil: and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning: and he stood not in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
He's talking about the jews .
Nope, that's actually about all humans.
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John :
8:44. You are of your father the devil: and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning: and he stood not in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
He's talking about the jews .
Nope, that's actually about all humans.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Like martin luther?
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Nope, that's actually about all humans.
Read Chapter 8, for John ! ;)
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Nope, that's actually about all humans.
Read Chapter 8, for John ! ;)
He's speaking about all humans who sin, the particular group he was addressing were Jews, but if you read carefully what he said it was not talking about Jews alone.
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Chakma613, I do not appreciate you coming on this forum and making a divide between Jews and Christians with your ignorent and inappropriate statements. This is not the first time you came on here and said stupid inflammatory remarks to start fights. So I am warning you now. Not everything with truth in it must be said in public, especially the way you distort everything. You always post very arrogant angry statements and pretend that you are an authority figure, while you are really ignorant and post nonsense all the time. If you are to come back, you have to have some humility, know that you are not the smartest one in the world, but you have a lot to learn from some of the learned Jews on this forum and our leader, and not defame G-d's name in public by saying stupid things on this forum.
Let me clear some things up; there is a dispute in Orthodox Judaism regarding how Christianity is to be perceived with regard to if a righteous devout Christian is considered a righteous Noahide obeying the 7 laws of Noah. We don't like to discuss this in public since it is a sensitive topic and brings dispute so it is only discussed in private usually; but since Chakma613 brought this up, I'll clarify. It all hinges on the trinity concept that Christians have and their belief in jesus being G-d. Judaism itself is incompatable with such beliefs but the dispute is regard to what this is considered for Gentiles. Some Rabbis claim that Christians may be considered righteous Noahides but others hold that they are not and it is idolatrous to have such a belief. Chaim holds like the first opinion that devout Christians are righteous Noahides. Chakma613 thinks the other way but in his ignorance he ignores the other opinions and is starting a fight by bringing this up. We must unite together to defeat Islam and accomplish our goals and ignore this irrelevant stuff as mosquewatch brilliantly stated.
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Well said, jdl4ever.
I have locked this thread.
ftf, you are a moderator and you have a higher standard to uphold and example to set. I don't want to see this type of nonsense anymore. You should have stopped this fight, not made it worse... no matter what anyone said to you. You have a great responsibility here and you should do your best to fulfill it.
I want the evil speech to stop. Every moderator and administrator should be 100% behind the unity of this forum and every action should reflect this. I am very disappointed in this fighting. I think we all know the differences in our belief systems but we have to join together for our very lives. Is this not a serious enough mission?
I want everyone here to remember why we are here and take a look at the bigger picture. Let's build unity and stand strong together to fight the evil that threatens our very existence. Let's remember the goal and stand up for one another.
Anyone can lose their temper... but it takes strength, courage, self-control, and UNITY to retake our lives and countries. JTF will only succeed if YOU (each and every one of you) decide it will succeed. We should all be proud of our mission and that our lives have meaning and purpose.
Let's do what right, be strong, and get past weak and fragile egos. Show respect for your fellow JTF members and be an example.