JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dr. Dan on September 23, 2007, 08:46:30 AM
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on Yom Kippur and Kol Nidre. The sermon about Brittany Spears actually had a good point to it...the other one, horrified me...for the very reason I'm strongly learning against leaving the "conserved" movement and encouraging my parents to leave that temple all together unless a different better and rational rabbi takes over...for some reason i doubt that will happen. It's the movement all together which has broken the last straw.
Here's the dillema. Orthodox synogogues are too intense for me, no offense to anyone. I'm just not at that level...maybe I will be one day...but the way my opinions are today, I just wouldn't be able to completely accept everything without kicking and screaming about every other rule.
And since I'm a little bit both "observant" and "secular" and prefer this mode, can anyone in my boat suggest a temple that is not so liberal and with good conservative/Torah Jewish values in the northern NJ area?
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That's a good question to put to Chaim. He knows the what-fors of every synagogue in NYC.
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Maybe you can find a "Conservadox" Synagogue.
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Stop mucking around with it, Danny. Don't be half a Jew. Get a black hat and some earlocks and get with it. ;)
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That's a good question to put to Chaim. He knows the what-fors of every synagogue in NYC.
here's the deal, he will divert me to an Orthodox synogogue because there will be no other one to go to otherwise. And because i'm sephardic most people will say go to a sephardic synogogue.
anyway, it doesn't matter right now...I'm going ot have to have a little talk with my rabbi about what he said..
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Stop mucking around with it, Danny. Don't be half a Jew. Get a black hat and some earlocks and get with it. ;)
OY oy oy oy oy oy..Moshiach moshiach oy oyo yoy oyo moshiach moshiach..... :laugh:
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Stop mucking around with it, Danny. Don't be half a Jew. Get a black hat and some earlocks and get with it. ;)
OY oy oy oy oy oy..Moshiach moshiach oy oyo yoy oyo moshiach moshiach..... :laugh:
Actually in Israel they say :
Mashiach Mashich Mashichhhhh Aya yay aya yay ay Mashiach Mashich Mashichhhhh .
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Conservative Judaism just goes with the flow of pop culture.
Whatever the "world" thinks is acceptable, so do they.
I know it makes you sick but what do you expect from people who don't REALLY beleive in the Torah?
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Conservative Judaism just goes with the flow of pop culture.
Whatever the "world" thinks is acceptable, so do they.
I know it makes you sick but what do you expect from people who don't REALLY beleive in the Torah?
You mean that people that don't believe in the Torah are...?
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going to define morality according to the changing mores of western pop culture.
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going to define morality according to the changing mores of western pop culture.
JNC is right in his criticism. Torah DOES NOT change with the times. Torah CHANGES the times.
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Danny, why dont you try a Chabad shul? They are generally very tolerant of the non-observant while at the same time being Torah observant themselves. They wont demand you do anything or try to force you to become observant.
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Newman, Did you ever hear Berel Wein's descending elevator story?
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Danny, why dont you try a Chabad shul? They are generally very tolerant of the non-observant while at the same time being Torah observant themselves. They wont demand you do anything or try to force you to become observant.
Chabad in my city are very nice, but I afraid to walk near their shul (my freind's house is near their shul) because their Rebbi can jump on me with tfilin :laugh:
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Conservative Judaism just goes with the flow of pop culture.
Whatever the "world" thinks is acceptable, so do they.
I know it makes you sick but what do you expect from people who don't REALLY beleive in the Torah?
many of them believe in the torah like muhammed believed in the torah...reject what is inconvenient and accept what is convenient. to me, the conservative movement only does good when it comes to outreach but harms jusaism when they say they have it perfectly right.
i believe many jews in this movement are well meaning jews but w the wrong priorities in mind...
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Rabbi Wein had just finished visiting a patient in the hospital who was one of his congregants.
He walked to the elevators and pressed the down button. Out of the corner of his eye, he saw a priest, obviously visiting someone as well, press the button at the exact same time.
He looked at the priest and smiled and the priest smiled back with the knowledge of what was going on here.
The were a few people who witnessed the simultaneous button pressing who stared aghast at the two clergymen as if today the 2000 year old argument would be settled.
Which clergyman could summon the descending elevator?
The hallway was tense with anticipation when suddenly the elevator opened on the Rabbi's side.
He smiled at the priest and went into the elevator inviting the bystanders and the Priest to join him.
The Priest paused in thought for a moment and then smiled and said "Hey Rabbi, what would you have said if the elevator had come on my side first?"
Rabbi Wein replied, "Father, one does not bring proof from a descending elevator."
He later realized the profoundness of his statement.
Western pop culture IS a descending elevator.
The were nonreligious people in the 50's 60's 70's and 80's and yet they didn't pester religious people about how terrible they are for not accepting gays. Because they didn't accept gays. They were on a higher floor but now they've descended and can't stop talking about the need to accept gays. When they see what the Bible says should be done to gays, they are horrified and say,"I can't believe that God feels this way about gays."
They're bringing proof from western pop culture, a descending elevator.
That's my point. If Western pop culture is your compass, you will allways be heading South.
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Newman, Did you ever hear Berel Wein's descending elevator story?
No. I got that bit about changing the times from Rabbi Blech.
Thanks for posting it.
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Danny, why dont you try a Chabad shul? They are generally very tolerant of the non-observant while at the same time being Torah observant themselves. They wont demand you do anything or try to force you to become observant.
no chabad shuls for me, thanks. I think i may lean towards the JEC or a sephardic synogogue or a politically conservative synogogue that isn't so religiously intense..
personally as a disclaimer, i don't care who is gay or even if a rabbi were gay. My problem is the openly gay rabbi just as if i had a rabbi that openly admitted that he masturbated on a daily basis. Or a Rabbi that doesn't rebuke homosexulaity or pornography or masturbation.
In addition, by someone saying, "hey, i'm gay" he is telling me more than just that. I don't go walking around telling everyone what i do in the privacy of my bedroom...so it's completely inappropriate to even bring it in a public situation and in a holy place. That's what [censored] me off about my rabbi...so inappropriate to talk about crap like that on the holiest day of the year!
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I whole heartedly recommend Chabad.
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And since I'm a little bit both "observant" and "secular" and prefer this mode, can anyone in my boat suggest a temple that is not so liberal and with good conservative/Torah Jewish values in the northern NJ area?
There's no such thing. Just go to an Orthodox Shul. You will not find Torah values anywhere else.
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What did he say about Britney Spears? What did he say about the fags?
Well he started out good on Kol Nidre that one of the sins not mentioned is realizing one's own shame...and then it went into Briteny Spears messing around and not showing any shame for the things that she does..the same goes wtih every other holywood low life.
With the homosexual thing...the conservative movement has decided to cannonize openly gay men as rabbis...
and so he want on to say we shoudln't turn away Jews..we shoudl accept them (as if Orthodox Jews turned away men who were admittedly homosexual which is absolutely false!!!) and he went off on a tangent how the hebrew for abomination can also mean to be lead astray..etc etc. and that he woudl be glad to marry two jewish men and allow them to adopt children etc etc... just went off on the whole thing...
First point: completely inappropriate to bring up politics or anything firey/controversial especially stuff about homosexuality on the holiest day of the year.. Secondly, more specificially, homosexuality is a sin like masturbation is a sin....when someone is openly homosexual, they are saying more than just that..it is COMPLETELY inappropriate for man who is teaching the holiness of the Torah to come and be open homosexual...no no no no no no no no....
If homosexuality is someothing someone is born with and it is something that they cannot control, it's still not right to go out in public about it especially in these situations...
Secondly, Jewish homosexuals should NOT be turned away if they come to confide to their rabbis..but at the same time, rabbis shouldn't just say, "oh it's ok to be gay...duh...." The proper thing to start with, "well, we love you, but doing things like that is inappropriate; it's not nice. You're not supposed to do that."
My opinion is that homosexuality is an abomination like lighting fire on the sabbath like spilling thy seed on thy ground, like lashon hara...etc...All are bad sins...and we all sin purposely and by accident...And because we are human, we will sin everyday of our lives no matter how we try to think...On that note, a homosexual if born that way, shouldn't be hated nor turned down if he wishes to worship. However, a sin is a sin...and sins should be rebuked..not accepted as ok...don't worry..you are as good as the rest blah blah blah...
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And since I'm a little bit both "observant" and "secular" and prefer this mode, can anyone in my boat suggest a temple that is not so liberal and with good conservative/Torah Jewish values in the northern NJ area?
There's no such thing. Just go to an Orthodox Shul. You will not find Torah values anywhere else.
I guess i'm going ot have to stick with the "conservative" temples....I refuse to go anywhere that I can't sit with my mother or sister-in-laws or other women...It's fine if other's rather go to synogogues that separate the two..i prefer not to...
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A rabbi talking about Brittney Spears??? My response to him would be like that crazy girl/guy on youtube, "LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!!!" and not so much because she is a human, but because she's not.
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A rabbi talking about Brittney Spears??? My response to him would be like that crazy girl/guy on youtube, "LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!!!" and not so much because she is a human, but because she's not.
it wasn't a big deal actually...it was taking an example that everyone in teh congregation can understand as someone who shows no shame when he/she does shameful acts...so it was a pretty good sermon.
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danny your Sefardi I highly recomend you going to a Sefardi shul- I love the way we pray together and the tunes, etc. In my shul the Rabbi didnt make any sermens- their was prayer the whole time and had only 2 hours break between Shaharit and Minha. -The Rabbi did translate some parts of the confessions of sins that we make and also told people that he wishes that the shul in packed everyday like it was on Yom Kippur, he said please come in on Shabb-h and those who regularly come on Shabb-h to come in everyday.
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danny your Sefardi I highly recomend you going to a Sefardi shul- I love the way we pray together and the tunes, etc. In my shul the Rabbi didnt make any sermens- their was prayer the whole time and had only 2 hours break between Shaharit and Minha. -The Rabbi did translate some parts of the confessions of sins that we make and also told people that he wishes that the shul in packed everyday like it was on Yom Kippur, he said please come in on Shabb-h and those who regularly come on Shabb-h to come in everyday.
the sephardi shuls are ok..i'm just not used to them.
the other thing is that I happen to like sermons...considering that i don't understand the Hebrew which i love reading in the chumash nevertheless, there is something more than just silent prayer and ruakh that I need especially on Yom Kippur...a good cleansing with nice ideas on how we, fellow Jews, and Israel were the previous year and how we should be the following year...and relate it to Yom Kippur or the Torah portion or the haftorah portion...
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And since I'm a little bit both "observant" and "secular" and prefer this mode, can anyone in my boat suggest a temple that is not so liberal and with good conservative/Torah Jewish values in the northern NJ area?
There's no such thing. Just go to an Orthodox Shul. You will not find Torah values anywhere else.
I guess i'm going ot have to stick with the "conservative" temples....I refuse to go anywhere that I can't sit with my mother or sister-in-laws or other women...It's fine if other's rather go to synogogues that separate the two..i prefer not to...
Men and women were seperated in the Holy Temple in Jerusalem.
Why should our little "Temples" be any different?
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danny your Sefardi I highly recomend you going to a Sefardi shul- I love the way we pray together and the tunes, etc. In my shul the Rabbi didnt make any sermens- their was prayer the whole time and had only 2 hours break between Shaharit and Minha. -The Rabbi did translate some parts of the confessions of sins that we make and also told people that he wishes that the shul in packed everyday like it was on Yom Kippur, he said please come in on Shabb-h and those who regularly come on Shabb-h to come in everyday.
the sephardi shuls are ok..i'm just not used to them.
the other thing is that I happen to like sermons...considering that i don't understand the Hebrew which i love reading in the chumash nevertheless, there is something more than just silent prayer and ruakh that I need especially on Yom Kippur...a good cleansing with nice ideas on how we, fellow Jews, and Israel were the previous year and how we should be the following year...and relate it to Yom Kippur or the Torah portion or the haftorah portion...
Their is usually lessons on all the other days and holidays, their isnt (wasnt) on Yom Kippur becuase their just isnt time, people including the Rabbi needed a little break (only 2 hours) so then we can continue with all of the prayers and finish on time. (by the time we finished the fast was really like 26 hours- becuase of Aravit and Havdala also).
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Sad that a "Rabbi" talks about Britney Spears on the holiest day of the year
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And since I'm a little bit both "observant" and "secular" and prefer this mode, can anyone in my boat suggest a temple that is not so liberal and with good conservative/Torah Jewish values in the northern NJ area?
There's no such thing. Just go to an Orthodox Shul. You will not find Torah values anywhere else.
I guess i'm going ot have to stick with the "conservative" temples....I refuse to go anywhere that I can't sit with my mother or sister-in-laws or other women...It's fine if other's rather go to synogogues that separate the two..i prefer not to...
Men and women were seperated in the Holy Temple in Jerusalem.
Why should our little "Temples" be any different?
They shouldn't be...go according to your tradition..If every synogogue ends up separating the two, then fine..not a big deal..
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Sad that a "Rabbi" talks about Britney Spears on the holiest day of the year
my point on that sermon was that Spears was nothing more than a prop to the whole point of the sermon, which, bt the way, was pretty good.
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I guess i'm going ot have to stick with the "conservative" temples....I refuse to go anywhere that I can't sit with my mother or sister-in-laws or other women...It's fine if other's rather go to synogogues that separate the two..i prefer not to...
the Sefaradi shuls are ok..i'm just not used to them.
the other thing is that I happen to like sermons...considering that i don't understand the Hebrew which i love reading in the chumash nevertheless, there is something more than just silent prayer and ruakh that I need especially on Yom Kippur...a good cleansing with nice ideas on how we, fellow Jews, and Israel were the previous year and how we should be the following year...and relate it to Yom Kippur or the Torah portion or the haftorah portion...
Danny, you say you like a good cleansing for Yom Kippur. And how do you expect to have this kawanna when you are praying in front of women, right next to women? It's a conservative synagogue, so I doubt they are dressing modestly. You're standing in front of the King of Kings; do you want that kind of distraction?
There are synagogues with low, hip-height dividers or use raised platforms for women (I beg people not to get into a halachic discussion about this). The former is the type that I go to (Sefardic, which I prefer ESPECIALLY for Yom Kippur). I like it; it's fine. I also prefer my congregation, to be among familiar friends and family. So I suggest you find a new synagogue and eventually you'll start to be welcomed and you'll make friends with some folks by the time the next YK comes around. (Hopefully, by then, we will do it in Jerusalem at the Beth Hamiqdash. By the way, there is seperate seating there.)
For your needs, just try not to find a black-hat one, not that there is anything wrong with black-hats.
Call me gay if you want, but things like that don't distract me, especially if it were my mother. She, by the way, dresses modestly. Actually being separate from the women distracts me more because I want to see what's behind that current or in that divider..but that's me...
I will look into it for next year...I do need to talk to my parents and see what happens.
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Danny your Sfaradi I highly recommend you going to a Sfardic shul- I love the way we pray together and the tunes, etc. In my shul the Rabbi didn't make any sermons- their was prayer the whole time and had only 2 hours break between Shaharit and Minha. -The Rabbi did translate some parts of the confessions of sins that we make and also told people that he wishes that the shul in packed everyday like it was on Yom Kippur, he said please come in on Shabbat and those who regularly come on Shabbat to come in everyday.
the Sephardi shuls are ok..I'm just not used to them.
the other thing is that I happen to like sermons...considering that i don't understand the Hebrew which i love reading in the chumash nevertheless, there is something more than just silent prayer and ruakh that I need especially on Yom Kippur...a good cleansing with nice ideas on how we, fellow Jews, and Israel were the previous year and how we should be the following year...and relate it to Yom Kippur or the Torah portion or the Haftarah portion...
Sfardic synagogues are Orthodox. They don't have silent prayers other than the silent Amidah. They do everything out loud. Ashkenazim do speed reading and only say the first and last sentences out loud in some cases.
Even when I used to go to a Conservative synagogue, I never went on Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur because they had a choir which seemed like a church to me. And they stretch everything out. They even stretched everything out on regular Shabbats during the Musaf. I went to Chabad yesterday and they started an hour and a half later than the regular Ashkenazic Orthodox synagogue across the street and finished about the same time. They also started Mincha earlier and finished around the same time. Chabad is more like Sfaradim in that respect in that they just read without stretching things out.
I didn't want to go to the Sfardic minyan because it is too far to walk. I used to walk there on Yom Kippur. It used to be in The Jewish Community Center across the street from the beginning of my street. It used to be in a rabbi's house on Shabbat and they never had a minyan so they stopped having it and only had it on The High Holidays. There were Moroccan big shots that wanted to be in charge on The High Holidays but they didn't ever come to the rabbi's house. Now that the rabbi doesn't do it anymore, they made their own minyan as part of an Ashkenazic synagogue on the lower level and they made it successful and have it every Shabbat but I never go because it's too far to walk. That's how Jews are. Everyone thinks they are better and want to be in charge.
you know, I'm brainstorming for now to go to a "conservadox" type temple that is going in the direction trying to become more religious
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From now one, call it
"Beit Knesset", that's how every Jew should call it .
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Danny your Sfaradi I highly recommend you going to a Sfardic shul- I love the way we pray together and the tunes, etc. In my shul the Rabbi didn't make any sermons- their was prayer the whole time and had only 2 hours break between Shaharit and Minha. -The Rabbi did translate some parts of the confessions of sins that we make and also told people that he wishes that the shul in packed everyday like it was on Yom Kippur, he said please come in on Shabbat and those who regularly come on Shabbat to come in everyday.
the Sephardi shuls are ok..I'm just not used to them.
the other thing is that I happen to like sermons...considering that i don't understand the Hebrew which i love reading in the chumash nevertheless, there is something more than just silent prayer and ruakh that I need especially on Yom Kippur...a good cleansing with nice ideas on how we, fellow Jews, and Israel were the previous year and how we should be the following year...and relate it to Yom Kippur or the Torah portion or the Haftarah portion...
Chabad is more like Sfaradim in that respect in that they just read without stretching things out.
not sure about all Sefardim- but in my Shul and in Bukharian shuls I have been to they do stretch things out, I though it was the opposite becuase in the building of my shul their are Askenazim (younge Israel Orthodox) who last night and allways finish much quicker then our Minyan downstairs- Bukharians. I have also visited Orthodox Askenazi shuls and the prayers more individually oriented. Also once I was in a deform/conservative service and it was retarted, I was away and it said minya, I didnt expect going to a minyan that resembles more of a german church. Thier was a girl their also who said she had her bat (or bar) mitzva reading, I started to laugh, I was like to her but your a girl- she got offended (I dont care).
-No offense to Askenazim, but I love going to Bukharian and genarally Sefardi shuls/minyans - theirs soo much energy and you feel togetherness, but for me in Askenazi shuls it feels somewhat isolationist.
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to each their own...i'ld be careful laughing at a girl who said she got bat-mitzvad....you do no favors in the name of Torah and Gd when you laugh at Jews who are not as observant as you or who are differently observant than you...
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How can you get "Bar Mitzvad"? You become a Bar Mitzvah (Meaning Son of The Commandments.) or you have a Bar Mitzvah (The event.). You become a Bar Mitzvah whether or not you had one just by turning 13 and a woman becomes a Bat Mitzvah by turning 12.
just don't laugh at girls who say they were bat mitzva-ed.... you might earn a reputation as an idiot and then never get married...Gd forbid
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to each their own...i'ld be careful laughing at a girl who said she got bat-mitzvad....you do no favors in the name of Torah and Gd when you laugh at Jews who are not as observant as you or who are differently observant than you...
I wasnt that religious, but honestly I laughed (more like smirked) when I heard that, becuase lets get one thing straight - its one thing if someone is not fully observent - lets face it everyone has his/her flaws and mistakes, bt its another when someone or some group tries to jutify it and make a whole movement and set of ideas that make it officially okay to do the wronge thing, look at that gay "rabbi", the movement didnt start that way, it started with canceling one commandment and then it got worse and worse. - My point is -even if you, me and all of us arent living our lives to the highest standard we should at least recognize the truth and work towards it without turning to those clowns.
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How can you get "Bar Mitzvad"? You become a Bar Mitzvah (Meaning Son of The Commandments.) or you have a Bar Mitzvah (The event.). You become a Bar Mitzvah whether or not you had one just by turning 13 and a woman becomes a Bat Mitzvah by turning 12.
just don't laugh at girls who say they were bat mitzva-ed.... you might earn a reputation as an idiot and then never get married...Gd forbid
I would never want to marry that type of girl. The girl I would want to marry would be one who'm would influence me to be more religious. Anyway I would most probably marry someone in the Bukharian community, and even completly non-religious Jews in my community know not to go to a deform "rabbi", if their is something like a death or a brit they only call the Orthodox Rabbi's. (allthough this might be changing with marriage,)
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to each their own...i'ld be careful laughing at a girl who said she got bat-mitzvad....you do no favors in the name of Torah and Gd when you laugh at Jews who are not as observant as you or who are differently observant than you...
I wasnt that religious, but honestly I laughed (more like smirked) when I heard that, becuase lets get one thing straight - its one thing if someone is not fully observent - lets face it everyone has his/her flaws and mistakes, bt its another when someone or some group tries to jutify it and make a whole movement and set of ideas that make it officially okay to do the wronge thing, look at that gay "rabbi", the movement didnt start that way, it started with canceling one commandment and then it got worse and worse. - My point is -even if you, me and all of us arent living our lives to the highest standard we should at least recognize the truth and work towards it without turning to those clowns.
A woman who wants to make a man's mitzva (except for circumcision ;) ) is not sinning. But a man who ADMITS of making a grave sin against Gd and furthermore cannot be fruitful and multiply even if all else is good is not good..
Likewise, I have no respect for rabbis who are admittedly non shomer shabbat or non shomer kashrut....
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danny to tell you the truth, this is the first time I heard of a Sefardic Jew go to a deform/conservative shul. (their might have been others but this is the first time I heard of such a case, - the rabbi wasnt Sefardic I know thats for sure.)
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How can you get "Bar Mitzvad"? You become a Bar Mitzvah (Meaning Son of The Commandments.) or you have a Bar Mitzvah (The event.). You become a Bar Mitzvah whether or not you had one just by turning 13 and a woman becomes a Bat Mitzvah by turning 12.
just don't laugh at girls who say they were bat mitzva-ed.... you might earn a reputation as an idiot and then never get married...Gd forbid
I would never want to marry that type of girl. The girl I would want to marry would be one who'm would influence me to be more religious. Anyway I would most probably marry someone in the Bukharian community, and even completly non-religious Jews in my community know not to go to a deform "rabbi", if their is something like a death or a brit they only call the Orthodox Rabbi's. (allthough this might be changing with marriage,)
I just don't think any decent humble gentle woman will want to observe a Jewish observant laugh at another girl who attempts to make a mitzva like let's say for kicks, wear T'fillin and talit, even though she doesn't have to wear one....the point is, she isn't forbidden to wear those things either as she isn't forbidden to become bat mitzva-ed.
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danny to tell you the truth, this is the first time I heard of a Sefardic Jew go to a deform/conservative shul. (their might have been others but this is the first time I heard of such a case, - the rabbi wasnt Sefardic I know thats for sure.)
oh of course not...he's ashkenaz...no sephardic rabbi would screw around like that...
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How can you get "Bar Mitzvad"? You become a Bar Mitzvah (Meaning Son of The Commandments.) or you have a Bar Mitzvah (The event.). You become a Bar Mitzvah whether or not you had one just by turning 13 and a woman becomes a Bat Mitzvah by turning 12.
just don't laugh at girls who say they were bat mitzva-ed.... you might earn a reputation as an idiot and then never get married...Gd forbid
I would never want to marry that type of girl. The girl I would want to marry would be one who'm would influence me to be more religious. Anyway I would most probably marry someone in the Bukharian community, and even completly non-religious Jews in my community know not to go to a deform "rabbi", if their is something like a death or a brit they only call the Orthodox Rabbi's. (allthough this might be changing with marriage,)
I just don't think any decent humble gentle woman will want to observe a Jewish observant laugh at another girl who attempts to make a mitzva like let's say for kicks, wear T'fillin and talit, even though she doesn't have to wear one....the point is, she isn't forbidden to wear those things either as she isn't forbidden to become bat mitzva-ed.
1- I wasnt observent when it happened. 2- she just said he had one, and it was strange hearing that because I didnt really know and think about Jews being like that, 3- I didnt even think of her wearing Tefillin and Tallit (which is even more laughable), but she said she went to read the Torah publically, and YES it is forbidden for a female to do these things. Their are soo many prohibitions involved- to name a few- saying a Bracha Levatala- Saying G-d's name in vain when making the blessing, a women wearing mans clothing, her reading the Torah outloud in front of men, etc.
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How can you get "Bar Mitzvad"? You become a Bar Mitzvah (Meaning Son of The Commandments.) or you have a Bar Mitzvah (The event.). You become a Bar Mitzvah whether or not you had one just by turning 13 and a woman becomes a Bat Mitzvah by turning 12.
just don't laugh at girls who say they were bat mitzva-ed.... you might earn a reputation as an idiot and then never get married...Gd forbid
I would never want to marry that type of girl. The girl I would want to marry would be one who'm would influence me to be more religious. Anyway I would most probably marry someone in the Bukharian community, and even completly non-religious Jews in my community know not to go to a deform "rabbi", if their is something like a death or a brit they only call the Orthodox Rabbi's. (allthough this might be changing with marriage,)
I just don't think any decent humble gentle woman will want to observe a Jewish observant laugh at another girl who attempts to make a mitzva like let's say for kicks, wear T'fillin and talit, even though she doesn't have to wear one....the point is, she isn't forbidden to wear those things either as she isn't forbidden to become bat mitzva-ed.
If a woman wears t'fillin 3 times, then she is required too.
Nop, I know where you got that idea from, but its wronge, that applies to cases such as if someone put it on himself to kept Shabb-h according to Rabbenu Tam (which is longer), if he did it 3 times he has to keep it that way, unless he goes to Rabbis and they instruct what to do. And other situations,
In this situation it was wronge to begin with and every time she does it its a sin(s).
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How can you get "Bar Mitzvad"? You become a Bar Mitzvah (Meaning Son of The Commandments.) or you have a Bar Mitzvah (The event.). You become a Bar Mitzvah whether or not you had one just by turning 13 and a woman becomes a Bat Mitzvah by turning 12.
just don't laugh at girls who say they were bat mitzva-ed.... you might earn a reputation as an idiot and then never get married...Gd forbid
I would never want to marry that type of girl. The girl I would want to marry would be one who'm would influence me to be more religious. Anyway I would most probably marry someone in the Bukharian community, and even completly non-religious Jews in my community know not to go to a deform "rabbi", if their is something like a death or a brit they only call the Orthodox Rabbi's. (allthough this might be changing with marriage,)
I just don't think any decent humble gentle woman will want to observe a Jewish observant laugh at another girl who attempts to make a mitzva like let's say for kicks, wear T'fillin and talit, even though she doesn't have to wear one....the point is, she isn't forbidden to wear those things either as she isn't forbidden to become bat mitzva-ed.
If a woman wears t'fillin 3 times, then she is required too. So why should she take on an obligation which she is not required to do? Besides, it's like cross dressing.
Isn't it so gay when you see them with their pink talit that looks like a blanket?
a lot of women do these things for the wrong reasons, I'll give you that...but some still feel it in their heart to do these things to feel better and more complete...i think in that situation it's a beautiful thing.
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How can you get "Bar Mitzvad"? You become a Bar Mitzvah (Meaning Son of The Commandments.) or you have a Bar Mitzvah (The event.). You become a Bar Mitzvah whether or not you had one just by turning 13 and a woman becomes a Bat Mitzvah by turning 12.
just don't laugh at girls who say they were bat mitzva-ed.... you might earn a reputation as an idiot and then never get married...Gd forbid
I would never want to marry that type of girl. The girl I would want to marry would be one who'm would influence me to be more religious. Anyway I would most probably marry someone in the Bukharian community, and even completly non-religious Jews in my community know not to go to a deform "rabbi", if their is something like a death or a brit they only call the Orthodox Rabbi's. (allthough this might be changing with marriage,)
I just don't think any decent humble gentle woman will want to observe a Jewish observant laugh at another girl who attempts to make a mitzva like let's say for kicks, wear T'fillin and talit, even though she doesn't have to wear one....the point is, she isn't forbidden to wear those things either as she isn't forbidden to become bat mitzva-ed.
1- I wasnt observent when it happened. 2- she just said he had one, and it was strange hearing that because I didnt really know and think about Jews being like that, 3- I didnt even think of her wearing Tefillin and Tallit (which is even more laughable), but she said she went to read the Torah publically, and YES it is forbidden for a female to do these things. Their are soo many prohibitions involved- to name a few- saying a Bracha Levatala- Saying G-d's name in vain when making the blessing, a women wearing mans clothing, her reading the Torah outloud in front of men, etc.
it's not illegal, it's a fence...I am set against signs in certain synogogues forbidding women to pray outloud...
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a rapist would feel more complete by raping a hoot blonde girl, does it make it okay? after all he wants to be made complete and satisfied.
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a rapist would feel more complete by raping a hoot blonde girl, does it make it okay? after all he wants to be made complete and satisfied.
raping is completely different than wearing t'fillin...come on...just admit that in your tradition, women do not need to do those things...but say oh well with my tradition...
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why do you keep saying fence? its not a fence, Im sorry but I think you should only get involved with an orthodox Rabbi and group and leave the deformed type of mindset. If you want to get religioud at least talk to a real Rabbi and ask to be taught and aided a step at a time, its a lot more dangerous to be involved in the deform movement. ( thank G-d in Israel their isnt this drek).
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a rapist would feel more complete by raping a hoot blonde girl, does it make it okay? after all he wants to be made complete and satisfied.
raping is completely different than wearing t'fillin...come on...just admit that in your tradition, women do not need to do those things...but say oh well with my tradition...
In my tradition our women dont want to do those things, girls understand their roles (as wives and mothers) and Im happy to say their are many nice girls. Their are also some bad girls who imitate the American lifestyle around them, but no one comes to change mitzvot.
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why do you keep saying fence? its not a fence, Im sorry but I think you should only get involved with an orthodox Rabbi and group and leave the deformed type of mindset. If you want to get religioud at least talk to a real Rabbi and ask to be taught and aided a step at a time, its a lot more dangerous to be involved in the deform movement. ( thank G-d in Israel their isnt this drek).
i'm actually only involved wtih JTF to learn about Judaism...
and for a politically incorrect movement you seem to get offended by the way I pray and feel about certain things... I"m not telling anyone to do things the way i do them..I'm just saying, there are certain things that I do and I don't mind it when others do it a certain way also..
It's not about life or death unless soeone doesn't look both ways when they cross the street...but if someone has their own way of praying to Gd, who are you to say that they are wrong the way they are doing it? IF someone's heart is in the right place, don't laugh at them if it is completely opposite to your tradition...that's messed up.
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a rapist would feel more complete by raping a hoot blonde girl, does it make it okay? after all he wants to be made complete and satisfied.
raping is completely different than wearing t'fillin...come on...just admit that in your tradition, women do not need to do those things...but say oh well with my tradition...
In my tradition our women dont want to do those things, girls understand their roles (as wives and mothers) and Im happy to say their are many nice girls. Their are also some bad girls who imitate the American lifestyle around them, but no one comes to change mitzvot.
My barber is Bukharian and i have several bukharian friends who are shomer shabbat, shomer kashrut, really great people...but the women in particular...the way they roll their eyes when we talk about the women sitting in the back row of the shul and not being able to participate in the congregation to pray.. Come on, women want to pray outloud too...
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Women can pray aloud with the rest of the congregation when they are singing a tune in most Young Israel type Shuls as far as I know. The Charedim don't allow this in their Shuls.
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I also heard women can't put on t'fillin because it can cause tum'a to the t'fillin if they are in their period.
but what if they are wear a tampon or a sanitary napkin? Back in the day, they didn't have those things and i can understand that rule of women not being near the Torah or anything with Gd's name on it.
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It's also Minhag/custom which is Torah. Tefillin are only made for men since the Torah only uses the male tense when it says to put on Tefillin. The Jewish custom for over 3000 years is that women never put on Tefillin and one who breaks Jewish custom is breaking a hole in the Torah.
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It's also Minhag/custom which is Torah. Tefillin are only made for men since the Torah only uses the male tense when it says to put on Tefillin. The Jewish custom for over 3000 years is that women never put on Tefillin and one who breaks Jewish custom is breaking a hole in the Torah.
I can accept that explanation...so far i don't know a single woman that wants to wear tfillin.
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a rapist would feel more complete by raping a hoot blonde girl, does it make it okay? after all he wants to be made complete and satisfied.
raping is completely different than wearing t'fillin...come on...just admit that in your tradition, women do not need to do those things...but say oh well with my tradition...
In my tradition our women dont want to do those things, girls understand their roles (as wives and mothers) and Im happy to say their are many nice girls. Their are also some bad girls who imitate the American lifestyle around them, but no one comes to change mitzvot.
My barber is Bukharian and i have several bukharian friends who are shomer shabbat, shomer kashrut, really great people...but the women in particular...the way they roll their eyes when we talk about the women sitting in the back row of the shul and not being able to participate in the congregation to pray.. Come on, women want to pray outloud too...
My dad's a barber too, Whats your barbers name, and where do you go?
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a rapist would feel more complete by raping a hoot blonde girl, does it make it okay? after all he wants to be made complete and satisfied.
raping is completely different than wearing t'fillin...come on...just admit that in your tradition, women do not need to do those things...but say oh well with my tradition...
In my tradition our women dont want to do those things, girls understand their roles (as wives and mothers) and Im happy to say their are many nice girls. Their are also some bad girls who imitate the American lifestyle around them, but no one comes to change mitzvot.
My barber is Bukharian and i have several bukharian friends who are shomer shabbat, shomer kashrut, really great people...but the women in particular...the way they roll their eyes when we talk about the women sitting in the back row of the shul and not being able to participate in the congregation to pray.. Come on, women want to pray outloud too...
My dad's a barber too, Whats your barbers name, and where do you go?
manhattan 27th st and 2nd ave.
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Whats sad is the fact that you cant chose a synagogue to worship and hear Torah according to how you want it.{no disrespect there}.Consider me, I go to a synagogue to hear Torah and to talk to a learned Jew,all i get is some self hating Gentile on gaurd and will not let me in to hear.....I tell him im a Noahide,he doesnt have a clue.he lies to my face,and im instructed to write a letter to the chairman of the Jewish Community.I go past every day to see if i can catch some 1 when they are there. Im always greeted by some xian or Mormon or some deluded fool he will not let me enter.YES,im annoyed! all i want is to hear the Torah and embrace it,feel it {spiritualy},so I can say to Hashem.I hear your words.All i want is to cling to a Jew and say I hear you know of G-d,I would follow.Alas,it never happens.if I were a Jew id get with the black gear and grow my earl locks but im not,but I still cant get to hear Torah and learn,so if any of you can get a Rabbi to help me construct {saying why i should be allowed to enter} a letter i would appreciate it.
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Danny, you say you like a good cleansing for Yom Kippur. And how do you expect to have this kawanna when you are praying in front of women, right next to women? It's a conservative synagogue, so I doubt they are dressing modestly. You're standing in front of the King of Kings; do you want that kind of distraction?
So women at Synagogue for the same purpose as men are a distraction? I thought you were Jewish, man, not a muslim. Who dresses immodestly at a place of worship? What is the Jewish definition (From the Orthodox sect) of modesty?
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Are non Jews allowed into Synagogues? Can Noahides participate in the service? Which tradition and/or sect does not allow women to participate in the service?
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Are non Jews allowed into Synagogues? Can Noahides participate in the service? Which tradition and/or sect does not allow women to participate in the service?
Women are allowed but their is a Mehitza, a seperation made between men and women.
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And since I'm a little bit both "observant" and "secular" and prefer this mode, can anyone in my boat suggest a temple that is not so liberal and with good conservative/Torah Jewish values in the northern NJ area?
There's no such thing. Just go to an Orthodox Shul. You will not find Torah values anywhere else.
I guess i'm going ot have to stick with the "conservative" temples....I refuse to go anywhere that I can't sit with my mother or sister-in-laws or other women...It's fine if other's rather go to synogogues that separate the two..i prefer not to...
Men and women were seperated in the Holy Temple in Jerusalem.
Why should our little "Temples" be any different?
Thats actually not true. There was no Mechitza in the Beit Hamikdash, only on Simchat Beit Hashoeva.
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Someone in the conversion process to Judaism dies, can that person have a Jewish funeral?
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So women at Synagogue for the same purpose as men are a distraction? I thought you were Jewish, man, not a muslim. Who dresses immodestly at a place of worship? What is the Jewish definition (From the Orthodox sect) of modesty?
Who dresses immodestly in a place of worship? I'm sorry, I really wish I knew the answer. I'll tell you what modesty isn't: Going to a house of worship with a a short, tight skirt and shirt exposing cleavage and shoulders. I include members of my own Synagogue in this as well. The purpose of a divider is not to keep women "in the back," but is to limit distractions while praying. Dressing immodestly was one thing the Gedolim were worried about.
Orthodox sect? The reason why Sephardic synagogues have the "orthodox" form of worship was because that's the way it always was until the reformists in Germany and Vienna spread their evil doctrine justifying the butchering of their faiths. Thank G-d these movements didn't penetrate the Sephardic synagogue, although their effects spread to the individuals.
Keeping women in the back, is it not possible for women to become distracted by the man in front of them? Gedolim? Has the rabbi not spoken to the congreation about dressing properly when attending synagogue and in their everyday lives?
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Whats sad is the fact that you cant chose a synagogue to worship and hear Torah according to how you want it.{no disrespect there}.Consider me, I go to a synagogue to hear Torah and to talk to a learned Jew,all i get is some self hating Gentile on gaurd and will not let me in to hear.....I tell him im a Noahide,he doesnt have a clue.he lies to my face,and im instructed to write a letter to the chairman of the Jewish Community.I go past every day to see if i can catch some 1 when they are there. Im always greeted by some xian or Mormon or some deluded fool he will not let me enter.YES,im annoyed! all i want is to hear the Torah and embrace it,feel it {spiritualy},so I can say to Hashem.I hear your words.All i want is to cling to a Jew and say I hear you know of G-d,I would follow.Alas,it never happens.if I were a Jew id get with the black gear and grow my earl locks but im not,but I still cant get to hear Torah and learn,so if any of you can get a Rabbi to help me construct {saying why i should be allowed to enter} a letter i would appreciate it.
I agree that it must be a self hating synagague then. Try another one. What synagague has a guard? None of the ones I go to have guards and no one stops you from walking in (just remember to walk into the men's side and not the woman's side (-:. Either that or it was the high holidays where everyone pays for a seat to raise money for the Temple and many are full and won't let you in if you didn't buy a seat. If all else fails than go to a Lubovitch synagague as they are really the only ones experienced in Noahidism, the rest of us are very new to seeing Noahides because it's been eons since we saw them before (it's a big miracle that righteous Noahides are emerging and a great sign for the future spiritual growth of mankind). I still don't understand why aren't there Noahide places of worship?
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Women arent necessarily in the back, but there is a separation between men and women, since the Bimah is usually in the center often the men will surround the Bimah and the women will surround the men
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Call me gay if you want, but things like that don't distract me, especially if it were my mother. She, by the way, dresses modestly. Actually being separate from the women distracts me more because I want to see what's behind that current or in that divider..but that's me...
I will look into it for next year...I do need to talk to my parents and see what happens.
"I want to see what's behind that current or in that divider..but that's me..." -- You just admitted to me that a divider has served you it's purpose.
I'm glad your mother dresses modestly when she goes to synagogue. Your mother and family is not the distraction I was mentioning though; I was talking about the other women surrounding you in your seating arrangment.
They shouldn't be...go according to your tradition..If every synogogue ends up separating the two, then fine..not a big deal..
Your tradition is separation of the sexes in the synagogue, Danny. "Ponder the years of each generation. Ask your father and let him tell you, and your grandfather, who will explain it." (Debarim 32:7)
listen, my point is that whether i'm separated or not, an image of a beautiful woman go into my brain while I pray...
Anyway...it doesn't matter...i can pray with a beautiful woman in my presence...some of you can't...
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Call me gay if you want, but things like that don't distract me, especially if it were my mother. She, by the way, dresses modestly. Actually being separate from the women distracts me more because I want to see what's behind that current or in that divider..but that's me...
I will look into it for next year...I do need to talk to my parents and see what happens.
"I want to see what's behind that current or in that divider..but that's me..." -- You just admitted to me that a divider has served you it's purpose.
I'm glad your mother dresses modestly when she goes to synagogue. Your mother and family is not the distraction I was mentioning though; I was talking about the other women surrounding you in your seating arrangment.
They shouldn't be...go according to your tradition..If every synogogue ends up separating the two, then fine..not a big deal..
Your tradition is separation of the sexes in the synagogue, Danny. "Ponder the years of each generation. Ask your father and let him tell you, and your grandfather, who will explain it." (Debarim 32:7)
listen, my point is that whether i'm separated or not, an image of a beautiful woman go into my brain while I pray...
Anyway...it doesn't matter...i can pray with a beautiful woman in my presence...some of you can't...
Its not that we cant, its just that it isnt a good thing praying to G-d and even more asking G-d for forgiveness for sins such as looking at women and at the same time having an image of 1? Its like me telling G-d please forgive me for eating pork while eating some. - everyday and expecially on Yom Kippur we have to try our best to keep ourselves as pure as possible, and you are somewhat right that an image can pop into your mind while praying but thats usually in the beginning when you dont pray a lot, after sometime usually the less you think about things and the more you focus on prayer the less externel disturbences you get.
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Call me gay if you want, but things like that don't distract me, especially if it were my mother. She, by the way, dresses modestly. Actually being separate from the women distracts me more because I want to see what's behind that current or in that divider..but that's me...
I will look into it for next year...I do need to talk to my parents and see what happens.
"I want to see what's behind that current or in that divider..but that's me..." -- You just admitted to me that a divider has served you it's purpose.
I'm glad your mother dresses modestly when she goes to synagogue. Your mother and family is not the distraction I was mentioning though; I was talking about the other women surrounding you in your seating arrangment.
They shouldn't be...go according to your tradition..If every synogogue ends up separating the two, then fine..not a big deal..
Your tradition is separation of the sexes in the synagogue, Danny. "Ponder the years of each generation. Ask your father and let him tell you, and your grandfather, who will explain it." (Debarim 32:7)
listen, my point is that whether i'm separated or not, an image of a beautiful woman go into my brain while I pray...
Anyway...it doesn't matter...i can pray with a beautiful woman in my presence...some of you can't...
Its not that we cant, its just that it isnt a good thing praying to G-d and even more asking G-d for forgiveness for sins such as looking at women and at the same time having an image of 1? Its like me telling G-d please forgive me for eating pork while eating some. - everyday and expecially on Yom Kippur we have to try our best to keep ourselves as pure as possible, and you are somewhat right that an image can pop into your mind while praying but thats usually in the beginning when you dont pray a lot, after sometime usually the less you think about things and the more you focus on prayer the less externel disturbences you get.
looking at a clothed woman is not a sin...so don't compare that with eating ham.
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whateva, we allways had a seperation between men and women at gatherings and we are not supposed to and wont change it.
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Not true. Only in synagague did we have separation between men and women. At wedding ceremonies in Europe we did not according to my grandparents.
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Not true. Only in synagague did we have separation between men and women. At wedding ceremonies in Europe we did not according to my grandparents.
In religious wedding their is, in non-religious weddings their maybe is in the beginning (one dance) and then the religious people leave.- it kinda sucks though becuase you pay for the seat and then just leave. (I personally havent been to a wedding in years (maybe 2 or 3).
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That's now but not in the past. I'm talking about religious towns in Europe as there was no reform or conservative in these towns. It is permitted for men and women to eat together but not to pray together. This is my tradition.