Author Topic: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)  (Read 15113 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Dan

  • Moderator
  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 4308
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2007, 10:48:22 AM »
Wow this thread is a complete waste of space. No way should this be a sticky.  What a waste of our times to worry about this.  JTF is in desperate need to have it's word spread throughout the Internet so it becomes a mass movement but I see a bunch of people here worrying about a person who may not even exist.

The chances of "Sarah" being a Muslim 15 year old girl are probably the same as "Sarah" being a fat 40-something year old pervert who gets his jollies from pretending to be a little Muslim girl on a Jewish forum. The Internet is filled with pervs and sickos and it would not shock me in the least if "Sarah" is one of them and that a bunch of you guys have wasted a lot of your time that you will never get back. Stop worrying about this BS and start planning how you will help spread the word about JTF!

Finally, a Rational Person... Baltimore you're a no nonsense kind of guy.  O0
However, I like Newman's approach he tried to extend his kindness and help others. Great!
But a 1-2 week sticky is definitely too much...

Offline HiWarp

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1867
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2007, 12:08:21 PM »
That's a very nice letter Newman.  I hope it has the affect that you are hoping for.

Quote
It's the Morocco move, isn't it?

Did she move from England to Morocco.  I was not aware of that and I suppose it could be a reason for the tone of some of her posts of late.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
---Thomas Jefferson

ftf

  • Guest
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2007, 01:07:08 PM »
I appreciate what you;re trying to do, newman, but your letter goes seriously against the forum's rules, and I find it rather offensive.

The church where he was baptised and taken to by his parents each sunday used to put hot pokers in Jews' eyes. The man/G-d jesus he worshiped, that embodyment of absolute love and forgiveness, that living guarantee of everlasting life................false. Well, at least he's still got the father.....just not the son. As for the history, it was centuries ago. It's distant enough not to weigh too heavily. A bitter pill? Yes, but he copes.

Not only are you claiming that every church in existance useed to be atorture house for Jews, you are also attacking the christian faith without evidence, I thought the purpose of this forum was for Jews, Christians, Noachides and others to work together against common enemies, such as muslims, if this post is to be allowed, even stickied by the forum's moderators, I don't think JTF is the type of organsation that any christian will want to be a part of.

Offline Dexter

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2005
  • צֶדֶק צֶדֶק, תִּרְדֹּף
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2007, 02:02:10 PM »
Wow this thread is a complete waste of space. No way should this be a sticky.  What a waste of our times to worry about this.  JTF is in desperate need to have it's word spread throughout the Internet so it becomes a mass movement but I see a bunch of people here worrying about a person who may not even exist.

The chances of "Sarah" being a Muslim 15 year old girl are probably the same as "Sarah" being a fat 40-something year old pervert who gets his jollies from pretending to be a little Muslim girl on a Jewish forum. The Internet is filled with pervs and sickos and it would not shock me in the least if "Sarah" is one of them and that a bunch of you guys have wasted a lot of your time that you will never get back. Stop worrying about this BS and start planning how you will help spread the word about JTF!
I believe Sarah.

On that issue, you have no reason to believe any of us is actually the people we are saying we are. But, it's not fun to be a perenoid.
Not a foreign land we took and not with foreign possession but a land that belong to our ancestors that was occupied without a trial. And when we had the opportunity, we took our land back.
-Shimon Maccabee's answer to Antiochus VII Sidetes.

"When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one... When you gaze into the abyss, it also gazes into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Sarah

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3341
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2007, 02:17:42 PM »
Quote
Sarah, it's time to be honest with yourself and us.

Nothing's easy. Life's tough enough, but for some it's tougher. I'm not talking money, bills, school or homework. I mean the other stuff some have to cope with.

The nice anglo-christian who grows to like the Jews discovers some things about his history, nation and community he has trouble accepting. Richard the Lion Heart, that great warrior king he admired as a boy turns out to be a scumbag who locked Jews in their synagogues and burnt them alive! The church where he was baptised and taken to by his parents each sunday used to put hot pokers in Jews' eyes. The man/G-d jesus he worshiped, that embodyment of absolute love and forgiveness, that living guarantee of everlasting life................false. Well, at least he's still got the father.....just not the son. As for the history, it was centuries ago. It's distant enough not to weigh too heavily. A bitter pill? Yes, but he copes.

The nice, post war German boy fares worse. He comes to the shocking realisation that his grandparents' generation (and sometimes his grandparents themselves) were/are monsters.He's painfully reminded every so often in old B&W newsreels. He's different to other boys in other countries. Patriotism and nationalism are taboo here. His countrymen are less nationalistic at the soccer than others. His countrymen are not allowed to be. The past is as unpleasant a subject with his elders as discussing the day's bowel motions. He learns that HIS country and HIS people are responsible for the most unspeakable crime in the history of man. He's rightly devastated. Unlike his anglo-saxon contemporary the crimes of his countrymen are not so distant. There are living members of his own family who took part! He can't dismiss it as ancient history. What does he do? He does what any normal human would. He attempts to deny....or rationalise..........or understate. Sometimes he does all three."Hitler only had 30% support". "The public didn't know about the camps"."Genocide was never the original intention"  ...............and so on. The problem is he has trouble convincing himself. He needs some reinforcement. So he tries to convince himself by convincing others. He runs the same justifications, denials and arguments by others in the hope that by convincing them, he'll convince himself. It doesn't work either. His peace will only come with painful honesty and acceptance of the awful truth. The bigger, more bitter pill must be swallowed. Some succeed. Most don't.

I know how it must be for you, Sarah. You're a lovely, kind, gentle girl without a mallicious or hateful bone in your body. You too have come to a shocking realisation about the culture and faith of your birth. And you've confronted it bravely. I know why you've recently tried returning to islam. You're trying to protect your sanity. It's the Morocco move, isn't it? To live there as a non-muslim, living a lie and a charade would be an unbearable torture. Confronting your family about it even worse (to you). I believe you've done the only thing that you (subconsciously) think you can do. You've tried to find something worthy in it. Something to convince you that the acts of violence, destruction, misogyny and hate that you see 24/7 in every paper and on every TV are somehow not a part of it. That you can find a legitimate and worthy faith and way of life without having to leave islam and split with your family and home. Conflict avoidance. It's understandable, Sarah. Anyone in your situation would do the same. The truth is , Sarah..............it's simply denial.

I know you don't really believe the excuses, explainations and taqqiya of your teachers and Imams anymore than I do. It would be nice if it was so. To write off the terror, rape, flogging of rape victims and sharia mutilations as some sort of abberation carried out by a misguided minority would be so much easier. If only that was the case how much easier would your life be? Imagine the peace of mind if it was so. I know you've been desperately trying to convince yourself it is so by using the JTF forum as a sounding board. It's OK. It's a natural thing to try and do. But as much as you want to believe what they tell you, the facts and your own common sense won't allow it. The floggings, executions, mutilations and abuse of women are ordered by islamic courts, not street gangs. Those courts are presided over by senior islamic schollars, not peasants. The terror, murders and rapes are given ascent by Imams, not illiterate tribesmen. When someone asks the question."where is the non-radical majority in islam opposing the radical minority?" there is still no answer. You know this inconvenient truth. That's the source of your conflict. It's no wonder you want to walk into a deep forest and just disappear. I would too if I were in your shoes.

Now Sarah............................Please tell me honestly if I'm right or wrong. If I'm wrong ....where and how. I don't mean in religion. I mean about you. I can give you a link to sites containing the truth about islam but I don't think that's neccessary. You already know deep down despite the pain and conflict this knowledge causes you. Just tell me.

Your friend

Andrew.

I can see the stupid ignorant muslims around the world. I can see that they're murdering innocent people and being damn right evil.
I can also see good muslims, who don't want to harm non-muslims and just want to live their lives in peace.

So then I look at the Quran. I cannot believe that a person could have written it:
 ‘We have sent you to the entire mankind to give them good tidings, and warn them; but most people do not understand this.’
(Saba’ 34: 28)

‘The Jews say, ‘The Christians have no valid grounds’; the Christians say, ‘The Jews have no valid grounds’; and both quote the Book [of God]. So do those who have no knowledge [of the Book] speak like them. But it is God who will decide between them on the Day of Ressurection about all on which they differ.’
(al-Baqarah 2: 113)

‘Whosoever holds fast to God, he has been guided onto the Straight Path.’
(al-Imran 3: 101)

‘Say: He is God, the One and Unique;
God, the Eternal source and support
Of everything;
He begets not, and neither is He begotten;
And none is His equal.’
(al-Ikhlas 112: 1-4)

I asked somebody, what they make of all the terror thats being caused by muslims and they told me it had been prophesised, that muslims would face trouble as a sign of the ending of the world. We also had a religious studies lesson today, and it was explained how the Jews knew that another Prophet was coming but thought that his name would be Ahmed.

Does the Torah, state that no religions should come after Judaism. Even after the incidents that caused the children of Israel to be punished?

---------------------------

It wasn't by chance that I managed to land upon such a great forum.


I don't like this.





Offline Nic Brookes

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2007, 02:27:15 PM »
‘The Jews say, ‘The Christians have no valid grounds’; the Christians say, ‘The Jews have no valid grounds’; and both quote the Book [of G-d]. So do those who have no knowledge [of the Book] speak like them. But it is G-d who will decide between them on the Day of Ressurection about all on which they differ.’
(al-Baqarah 2: 113)

Why are you quoting this? This is a sure fire way to get banned.

Offline Dexter

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2005
  • צֶדֶק צֶדֶק, תִּרְדֹּף
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2007, 02:28:03 PM »
Quote
Does the Torah, state that no religions should come after Judaism. Even after the incidents that caused the children of Israel to be punished?

The Torah says no one is allowed to add upon it or change it.
Not a foreign land we took and not with foreign possession but a land that belong to our ancestors that was occupied without a trial. And when we had the opportunity, we took our land back.
-Shimon Maccabee's answer to Antiochus VII Sidetes.

"When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one... When you gaze into the abyss, it also gazes into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2007, 02:34:42 PM »
Quote
Does the Torah, state that no religions should come after Judaism. Even after the incidents that caused the children of Israel to be punished?

The Torah says no one is allowed to add upon it or change it.

Let me just add...This is what Mohammed did..he added and changed what was written in teh Torah. That's why Jews can never become Muslims or eat Halal etc etc etc.

I don't think there is anywhere in Judaism that other religions cannot exist before or after it. In Judaism, we believe that Jews and Torah...real Torah, will never disappear and we are Gd willing, forever.  However, all other fake religions will disappear on their own volition.  We consider fake religions to be the ones with fake gods and idols.

Another point of view which Judaism carries about other religions is not one of disdain either.  We also believe that someone can be righteous and be of a different religiou. We don't believe in a one world religion and that every nation is judged separately by Gd based on its actions with each other and to the Jewish people.  So while Jews will disagree with other theologies, it will talk about it so that its own people won't convert to antoher religion that isn't kosher, so to speak.

If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Sarah

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3341
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2007, 02:38:55 PM »
Is there anything then in the torah, that hints the coming of other prophets? Who is Elijah?

Islam includes many aspects of Judaism, Christianity and its own Islam, so that is equivalent of adding upon the Torah right?

Offline Dexter

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2005
  • צֶדֶק צֶדֶק, תִּרְדֹּף
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2007, 02:43:03 PM »
Is there anything then in the torah, that hints the coming of other prophets? Who is Elijah?

Islam includes many aspects of Judaism, Christianity and its own Islam, so that is equivalent of adding upon the Torah right?
No there isn't. The next era according to the Torah/Talmud will be the Messianic era as far as I know.
Not a foreign land we took and not with foreign possession but a land that belong to our ancestors that was occupied without a trial. And when we had the opportunity, we took our land back.
-Shimon Maccabee's answer to Antiochus VII Sidetes.

"When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one... When you gaze into the abyss, it also gazes into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Sarah

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3341
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2007, 02:44:05 PM »
ok

Offline Dexter

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2005
  • צֶדֶק צֶדֶק, תִּרְדֹּף
Not a foreign land we took and not with foreign possession but a land that belong to our ancestors that was occupied without a trial. And when we had the opportunity, we took our land back.
-Shimon Maccabee's answer to Antiochus VII Sidetes.

"When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one... When you gaze into the abyss, it also gazes into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

ftf

  • Guest
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2007, 03:00:08 PM »
Prophet was coming but thought that his name would be Ahmed.
Er, no. The only one tha the Jews belive is left to come is the Messiah, they do not know what his name will be, but they believe that he will be of the line of King David.

Ahmed is a name some Moslims use for Mohammed, I'm guessing this religous studies lesson was at a muslim school?

As for the contents of the quran and hadiths: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=3995.0 I'm way less than half way through it, but surely, you can't believe that any loving God would write such books, just read what it says. Women are worth half a man, kill the unbelievers, etc, this is not the work of any deity who deserves to be served.

Rather than trying to find mysticism in the Quran, read the bible.

Offline q_q_

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3819
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2007, 03:23:56 PM »
ok

You have asked a very honest question..  I asked myself the same question when I was in a muslim area.

Many proofs that the torah is eternal and nothing comes after it..  I looked these up years ago when I was living with muslims..

It says jews are commanded to eat matza, and that this is a commandment for all your generations. eternally.

"You shall observe the feast of matzah; for in this same day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall you observe this day throughout your generations by an ordinance forever. "

In Islam, jews are not required to eat matza.

Also, In the books of prophets, the last prophet mentioned says that we should keep the torah forever and wait for Eliyahu HaNavi who will bring us to torah.. And  in Jeremiah, it speaks of the end of times when the torah will be inscribed into our hearts.   

Islam is totally inconsistent with this.  Yet Islam claims to continue judaism   

Offline q_q_

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3819
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2007, 03:38:08 PM »
I would like to add also..

If a religion makes a claim, it is up to the religion to support itself.

Not for it to say "I believe this. PROVE ME WRONG".

I believe in little green martians.  PROVE ME WRONG.

There is simply no evidence of islam being true.
And all the claims of evidence that islam is true. Are hoaxes.
Like claims of scientific miracles. But let`s not go into all of that..

I discovered later, alot of evidence of absurdity, not told to me by muslims.
See videos by investigateislam and iceyyy  on youtube.
Another thing muslims use for islam, is its simplicity. In reality, they muslims are very confused about things, even the first verse..   
But really, this is all secondary.

It has no evidence of its truth, and all the supposed evidence, are hoaxes. So it stands on a mountain of hoaxes. That should suggest something to you.



Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2007, 03:48:18 PM »
Is there anything then in the torah, that hints the coming of other prophets? Who is Elijah?

Islam includes many aspects of Judaism, Christianity and its own Islam, so that is equivalent of adding upon the Torah right?

I think it was Nehemiah that was considered as the last prophet..not exactly sure.

As far as the coming of other prophets such as Elijah....this I think is for the "world to come" and on the days of the messiah...i mean, I'm not as well versed on this aspect.

Islam claims to include aspects of Judaism and Christianity...What Mohammed did was take what he liked and get rid of what he didn't like and changed what he saw fit...In Judaism you're not allowed ot do that...You're not allowed to pick and choose laws.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Lubab

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Master JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2007, 03:50:04 PM »
Quote
Sarah, it's time to be honest with yourself and us.

Nothing's easy. Life's tough enough, but for some it's tougher. I'm not talking money, bills, school or homework. I mean the other stuff some have to cope with.

The nice anglo-christian who grows to like the Jews discovers some things about his history, nation and community he has trouble accepting. Richard the Lion Heart, that great warrior king he admired as a boy turns out to be a scumbag who locked Jews in their synagogues and burnt them alive! The church where he was baptised and taken to by his parents each sunday used to put hot pokers in Jews' eyes. The man/G-d jesus he worshiped, that embodyment of absolute love and forgiveness, that living guarantee of everlasting life................false. Well, at least he's still got the father.....just not the son. As for the history, it was centuries ago. It's distant enough not to weigh too heavily. A bitter pill? Yes, but he copes.

The nice, post war German boy fares worse. He comes to the shocking realisation that his grandparents' generation (and sometimes his grandparents themselves) were/are monsters.He's painfully reminded every so often in old B&W newsreels. He's different to other boys in other countries. Patriotism and nationalism are taboo here. His countrymen are less nationalistic at the soccer than others. His countrymen are not allowed to be. The past is as unpleasant a subject with his elders as discussing the day's bowel motions. He learns that HIS country and HIS people are responsible for the most unspeakable crime in the history of man. He's rightly devastated. Unlike his anglo-saxon contemporary the crimes of his countrymen are not so distant. There are living members of his own family who took part! He can't dismiss it as ancient history. What does he do? He does what any normal human would. He attempts to deny....or rationalise..........or understate. Sometimes he does all three."Hitler only had 30% support". "The public didn't know about the camps"."Genocide was never the original intention"  ...............and so on. The problem is he has trouble convincing himself. He needs some reinforcement. So he tries to convince himself by convincing others. He runs the same justifications, denials and arguments by others in the hope that by convincing them, he'll convince himself. It doesn't work either. His peace will only come with painful honesty and acceptance of the awful truth. The bigger, more bitter pill must be swallowed. Some succeed. Most don't.

I know how it must be for you, Sarah. You're a lovely, kind, gentle girl without a mallicious or hateful bone in your body. You too have come to a shocking realisation about the culture and faith of your birth. And you've confronted it bravely. I know why you've recently tried returning to islam. You're trying to protect your sanity. It's the Morocco move, isn't it? To live there as a non-muslim, living a lie and a charade would be an unbearable torture. Confronting your family about it even worse (to you). I believe you've done the only thing that you (subconsciously) think you can do. You've tried to find something worthy in it. Something to convince you that the acts of violence, destruction, misogyny and hate that you see 24/7 in every paper and on every TV are somehow not a part of it. That you can find a legitimate and worthy faith and way of life without having to leave islam and split with your family and home. Conflict avoidance. It's understandable, Sarah. Anyone in your situation would do the same. The truth is , Sarah..............it's simply denial.

I know you don't really believe the excuses, explainations and taqqiya of your teachers and Imams anymore than I do. It would be nice if it was so. To write off the terror, rape, flogging of rape victims and sharia mutilations as some sort of abberation carried out by a misguided minority would be so much easier. If only that was the case how much easier would your life be? Imagine the peace of mind if it was so. I know you've been desperately trying to convince yourself it is so by using the JTF forum as a sounding board. It's OK. It's a natural thing to try and do. But as much as you want to believe what they tell you, the facts and your own common sense won't allow it. The floggings, executions, mutilations and abuse of women are ordered by islamic courts, not street gangs. Those courts are presided over by senior islamic schollars, not peasants. The terror, murders and rapes are given ascent by Imams, not illiterate tribesmen. When someone asks the question."where is the non-radical majority in islam opposing the radical minority?" there is still no answer. You know this inconvenient truth. That's the source of your conflict. It's no wonder you want to walk into a deep forest and just disappear. I would too if I were in your shoes.

Now Sarah............................Please tell me honestly if I'm right or wrong. If I'm wrong ....where and how. I don't mean in religion. I mean about you. I can give you a link to sites containing the truth about islam but I don't think that's neccessary. You already know deep down despite the pain and conflict this knowledge causes you. Just tell me.

Your friend

Andrew.

I can see the stupid ignorant muslims around the world. I can see that they're murdering innocent people and being damn right evil.
I can also see good muslims, who don't want to harm non-muslims and just want to live their lives in peace.

So then I look at the Quran. I cannot believe that a person could have written it:
 ‘We have sent you to the entire mankind to give them good tidings, and warn them; but most people do not understand this.’
(Saba’ 34: 28)

‘The Jews say, ‘The Christians have no valid grounds’; the Christians say, ‘The Jews have no valid grounds’; and both quote the Book [of G-d]. So do those who have no knowledge [of the Book] speak like them. But it is G-d who will decide between them on the Day of Ressurection about all on which they differ.’
(al-Baqarah 2: 113)

‘Whosoever holds fast to G-d, he has been guided onto the Straight Path.’
(al-Imran 3: 101)

‘Say: He is G-d, the One and Unique;
G-d, the Eternal source and support
Of everything;
He begets not, and neither is He begotten;
And none is His equal.’
(al-Ikhlas 112: 1-4)

I asked somebody, what they make of all the terror thats being caused by muslims and they told me it had been prophesised, that muslims would face trouble as a sign of the ending of the world. We also had a religious studies lesson today, and it was explained how the Jews knew that another Prophet was coming but thought that his name would be Ahmed.

Does the Torah, state that no religions should come after Judaism. Even after the incidents that caused the children of Israel to be punished?

---------------------------

It wasn't by chance that I managed to land upon such a great forum.


I don't like this.






This is utter nonsense. What about those verses makes you think they can't have been written by man? They steal concepts from the original Torah just as all other religions have done to try to convert the Jews. There is no objective verification that that text came from G-d and does contradict the one that we all agree really did telling us that it is not valid.

Question: Why do you focus on these verses while avoiding the many many verses santioning violence of Muslims against G-d's chosen people in direct contradiction to the Torah.

This story your teacher is telling is about Ahmed is a complete lie. Ask him or her for a source. I swear these people just make things up as they go along. Question them, challenge them. Don't just swallow this garbage while at the same time practially ignoring the very valid points being made on this forum by our members. If only you were half as stubborn in challenging your Muslim Nazi teachers.

Of course there are other prophets. Elija lived in the times of Tanach and will return to announch the coming of the Messiah. But ANY claimed prophet is judge by ONE main critereon. Does he come to fulfill what the Torah says, or does he try to carve a new path. If he tries to carve a new path then he is not only not a prophet he must be killed. Such was the status of your "prophet".

Mohammed's Nazi wars with the Jews make him an evil Amalekite in the eyes of the Torah, not a prophet. How many times did G-d get angry with the Jews in the Bible but kept to His eternal covenant with them? And how many times were the enemies of the Jewish people punished despite what the Jews had done wrong.

Have you read the Bible? G-d says His people are an EVERLASTING inheritence. What part of everlasting don't you understand?

This has all been explained to you before but your mind is closed unfortunately.




"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.

kellymaureen

  • Guest
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2007, 03:55:05 PM »
Quote
If a religion makes a claim, it is up to the religion to support itself.

Not islam:

"O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith." (Surah 5:101-102)

"The Holy Prophet himself forbade people to ask questions ...so do not try to probe into such things." (The Meaning of the Qur'an, Maududi, vol. III, pgs. 76-77)

"The prophet was asked about things which he did not like, and when the questioner insisted, the Prophet got angry. (vol. 1, no. 92) The Prophet got angry and his cheeks or his face became red. (vol. 1, no. 91) "Allah has hated you...[for] asking too many questions." (vol. 2, no. 555; and vol. 3, no. 591, Bukhari's Hadith commenting on Muhammad’s reaction to hostile questioners.)

Islam is the information control cult O0
Muslims are simply NOT supposed to question anything....the ones who do usually end up leaving, see any ex muslim site and they will tell you thats when reality hit them.

Offline Trumpeldor

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2228
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2007, 04:02:11 PM »
So because Islam says the Jews were expecting 'Ahmed' that means they really were? hahahahahaha


Offline Sarah

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3341
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2007, 04:02:25 PM »
Muslims also say that Jews were cursed by God because they asked too many questions and that some even asked Moses to take them up mount sinai, to talk to God. God spoke to them and then questioned Him and asked to see Him, God blinded them.

I was once told that you had to believe in Islam before anybody could question it....

ftf

  • Guest
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2007, 04:05:14 PM »
Muslims also say that Jews were cursed by G-d because they asked too many questions and that some even asked Moses to take them up mount sinai, to talk to G-d. G-d spoke to them and then questioned Him and asked to see Him, G-d blinded them.

I was once told that you had to believe in Islam before anybody could question it....
ONe should always question, if something makes no sense, you don't follow it.

Offline HiWarp

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1867
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2007, 04:17:57 PM »

Another thing muslims use for islam, is its simplicity.

Yet we are told that we misunderstand islam because there are many different interpretations and that we need to read the quran in arabic  and even those who speak arabic have a hard time understanding it.  So which is it?  Is it simple or complicated?  ??? :-\
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
---Thomas Jefferson

Offline q_q_

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3819
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2007, 05:29:21 PM »

Another thing muslims use for islam, is its simplicity.

Yet we are told that we misunderstand islam because there are many different interpretations and that we need to read the quran in arabic  and even those who speak arabic have a hard time understanding it.  So which is it?  Is it simple or complicated?  ??? :-\

I don`t agree with your argument.

I know why they say you have to read it in arabic.. I am sure you do too.  It is a defence mechanism.   And anyhow, mostly they do not speak arabic anyway. So it works as a defence mechanism for themselves too.
(in rare cases it could be that the problem is resolved by the fact that there is really a mistranslation, but not nearly as often as they pretend)

I don`t think it matters whether it is simple or complex either.  That bares no relation to truth.
It is simple in the framework that it is taught.  But  if you ask them how many commandments they have, they will not be able to answer.  Really it proves nothing.

That is why I say it is wrong for the reasons that I do.

Other valid reasons - which I consider valid but only as a secondary thing - are its immorality , perversity, absurdity.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 05:33:14 PM by q_q_ »

Offline HiWarp

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1867
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2007, 05:38:59 PM »

Another thing muslims use for islam, is its simplicity.

Yet we are told that we misunderstand islam because there are many different interpretations and that we need to read the quran in arabic  and even those who speak arabic have a hard time understanding it.  So which is it?  Is it simple or complicated?  ??? :-\


I don`t agree with your argument.

I know why they say you have to read it in arabic..  it is a defence mechanism.   And anyhow, mostly they do not speak arabic anyway. So it works as a defence mechanism for themselves too.

I don`t think it matters whether it is simple or complex either.  That bares no relation to truth.
It is simple in the framework that it is taught.  But  if you ask them how many commandments they have, they will not be able to answer.  Really it proves nothing.

That is why I say it is wrong for the reasons that I do.

Other valid reasons - which I consider valid but only as a secondary thing - are its immorality , perversity, absurdity.



I did not make an argument, simply an observation based on arguments used by muslims when they are confronted with some of the absurdities you speak of.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
---Thomas Jefferson

ftf

  • Guest
Re: My letter to Sarah. (Please make this a sticky thread for 2 weeks)
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2007, 05:41:24 PM »
A chap on youtube who goes by the name of investigateislam put the lie to everything they say about needing to know arabic, he knows arabic, and if anything, the stuff he digs up from the quran and the hadiths makes it sound worse still than stuff that I as a non-arabic speaker can find.