8 Nagging Questions About 9-11

[SavetheWest]

Only one of the Loose Change guys actually finished college and got a BA, so I'll trust the engineers with Masters degrees at PM.

[Lubab]

If you watch the interview between the Popular Mechanics authors and the Loose Change dudes you find something interesting. At several points in the debate the Popular Mechanics guys say "well we didn't research all the details"...the kids kept wanting to talk specifics about the events and they say "we didn't look into all the details".

Well if you didn't look into all the details then why the heck did you entitle the cover of your magazine "Debunking 9-11 myths".

When I saw them pull that garbage in that debate those Popular Mechanics guys lost a lot of credibility in my eyes. I would read their article VERY critically and not just swallow everything they say as if it's gospel because these guys have an ax to grind.

[SavetheWest]

Muslims have pulled off plenty of bombings in the past.  They are evil but not dumb. They've been able to dig tunnels underneath Israeli positions and blow themselves up.  When it comes to killing people, the Muslims are very creative!

[Lubab]

Only one of the Loose Change guys actually finished college and got a BA, so I'll trust the engineers with Masters degrees at PM.

Well they do have those kinds of guys on their side the problem as I said before is that as soon as they go public with their views they lose tenure and stuff like that..so it's difficult.

Maybe I will put together  a list of real respected experts who question the official story when I get a chance.

[Lubab]

Bush making a verbal mistake....come on, that's not news!

Could be a verbal mistake but even a bad speaker doesn't screw up like that when they're just telling the honest story of what happened to them.

Wait a minute.

What was the verbal mistake? That he meant to say he saw the "second" plane go in, not the first? Well that would be a lie too because we  have him on camera when he's informed about the second plane and he ain't watchin' no tv!

[SavetheWest]

Hillary Clinton with the sniper issue is a perfect example.  She remembered it a certain way or lied to make the story sound better.  Exaggeration or getting the story wrong is not unique or proof of a conspiracy.  Anyways that was done by Canadian Broadcasting Network.  They make PBS look like Savage.  They also like any story that makes Canada look better than the US so they can feel important about themselves.

[Lubab]

Look at all of the left wing publications that are owned by Hearst (owner of Popular Mechanics). These guys are part of the establishment without a doubt.

Newspapers

    * Albany Times Union
    * Beaumont Enterprise
    * Edwardsville Intelligencer (IL)
    * Houston Chronicle
    * Huron Daily Tribune (MI)
    * Laredo Morning Times
    * Midland Daily News
    * Midland Reporter
    * Plainview Daily Herald
    * San Antonio Express-News
    * San Francisco Chronicle
    * Seattle Post-Intelligencer

Magazines

    * Cosmopolitan
    * CosmoGIRL!
    * Country Living
    * Country Living Gardener
    * Esquire
    *
    * Harper's BAZAAR
    *
    * Lifetime
    * Marie Claire
    * O, The Oprah Magazine
    * Popular Mechanics
    * Redbook
    * Seventeen
   
    * Veranda

[diplomat]

Very interesting thread. I am inclined to agree with lulab, that one must try to understand this objectively, and not overreact by taking sides. At the end of the day, it's truth that matters, not our emotional attachment to a certain view.

[Muck DeFuslims]

If they're not nagging you it's because you are relying on an article that may or may not be true instead of doing the research yourself.

These questions don't bother you because you never really spent the time to think about them and research. That's why they are not nagging you Muck. But I don't mind if they don't bother  you I'm just wondering what you have to contribute to this thread, in that case?

I don't want you to wonder what I have to contribute to this thread.
So I'll be very clear (once again) for those who might be a little reading comprehension challenged, Lubab.

I'll clearly state that your 'nagging' questions don't nag at me because I've seen them all answered and debunked about a zillion times.

I'll clearly advise you to do your own research and come to your own conclusions regarding the events of 9/11. Except you really don't want answers because when you're given a source with answers you say "If people have answers that seem logical-great! But just referring me to an article is not an answer." Sorry, but referring you to an article that adresses your questions is an answer. It's not my problem that you're either too stubborn, lazy or stupid to read the article that can answer some of your questions, is it ?


I'll clearly advise you to tell this forum what you've concluded after you've done your research. If you want to conclude that 9/11 was a set-up akin to the Reichstag fire, that WTC building 7 was a controlled explosion, that the towers themselves were a controlled explosion....that's fine with me. If after you've rationally analyzed the evidence you still choose to conclude that 19 mooozies were hypnotized into hijacking 3 flights that day and crashing them into the WTC and Pentagon as part of some elaborate conspiracy, that's fine with me too.

One more thing:

I'll make a final contribution to this thread by clearly stating that the 9/11 troofers are out of their freaking minds !!!

I read the article Muck. I even saw an hour long debate between the Popular Mechanics guys and the Loose Change Guys.  You should watch it. It's pretty interesting. I think in many ways the Loose Change guys put them to shame.

I'm not the lazy one here.

I don't think they were hypnotized. I think they hate America and this was something that they wanted to do. But Muzzies are pretty dumb, as you and I know, and they pulled off this operation pretty darn well, and for some odd reason our military didn't do one effective thing to stop it...so logic leads me to believe these Moozies had some help.

I don't known for sure. But that's what seems logical to me.

Yeah, well I listened to the Pop Mech vs. Loose Screws (that's a better name for them) debate and the Loose Screws were embarrassing. How anyone could listen to that and think otherwise is beyond belief.

Since you mentioned 'logical' in your last sentence, let's use a little logic, shall we ?

You're advancing a theory that the WTC towers and building 7 were imploded in some sort of controlled demolition and not as a result of the moooozies flying the hijacked jets into the WTC. Can anyone explain why the conspirators wouldn't just blow up the WTC and blame it on the moooozies anyway ?  I mean, why would you have them fly hijacked jets into the towers...when you could just blow them up and pin it on the moooozies anyway ? You can't be thinking that we'll somehow get these moooozies to hijack the jets and fly them into the WTC and then use explosives to bring them down, can you ? If you are, you're not only not being logical, you're positively out of your mind.

As far as the moooozies having help, you bet your butt they had help. They had the help of an America that failed to realize what a threat these Islamic scumbags are even after they murdered Rav Kahane and previously bombed the WTC.

And you know what ? They have the help today of fools that embrace absurd conspiracy theories or deny that the mooozies brought off 9/11 themselves.

The only people more absurd than the 9/11 'truthers' are the moooozies themselves. One minute they're claiming they didn't do it, and the next minute they're praising the 19 heroic martyrs.

It's really disappointing that a moderator on this forum has any doubts that the mooozies were responsible for and pulled off 9/11, and it's disgusting that you would compare the events of that tragic day to the Reichstag fire. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[SavetheWest]

So many of the conspiracies smell of anti-Semitism too.  They have the name "Silverstein" in big letters in that video.  It's very subtle anti-Semitism and you can see from many of those comments on Youtube.

[AsheDina]

  I lived in NY like many of you did. In August 01, there was an intercept that these terrorist (people believe USA the terrorist) but i didnt- it was intercepted out of the Persian Gulf, I know this, b/c I was watching the News, my friend said: Look at ALL of these US ships leaving the Gulf.. I said: THIS time, they will NOT hit the military, they WILL hit civilians and it will be bad.     
Sept. 11 then followed. 
  The thing is, ON 9/11- WITHOUT hearing from Bush- EVERYONE just KNEW that terrorists did it. Why shouldnt they believe it?? noboy EVER thougt that ANYBODY would hit the USS COLE, but they did.
  Directly AFTER 9/11 Al Queda was "In Ya FACE" CLAIMING responsibility. WHY isnt ANYONE investigating USS COLE?? WHY isnt ANYONE investigating 2 East African Embassies, WHY isnt ANYONE investigating the Bombing at the Olympics in Atlanta? WHY were there NO muzlim verdors downtown Manhattan that day? WHY were there NO muzlim taxi driver in Manhattan that day? Lot of people dont recall this info, but I DO.
  My sister and I, witnessed 2 of the men from the Buffalo 6- we were part of helping track these terrorists down- we had winessed these A-rabs transferring LARGE duffl bags from a truck to a car- after we rurned them in- we KNOW (and were happy) that they CAUGHT them 2 days later.
  This is an UGLY subect to me, so cya. Caio.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

There's no bluff to call here. I'm being perfectly honest with the way I see things.

I'll read it but I'd like to hear YOUR thoughts Brain. Please tell me which number question you are addressing and how you think it is resolved in your own words...because you can post links and so can I...and we can go on doing that all day without every really communicating.

Nobody has a problem with you making a thread like this, even if it is not "the party line". The reason everybody got mad at nikmatdam was because (a) he was insisting beyond all doubt that his speculations were true (instead of just raising them for discussion), (b) because he refused to stop when asked by moderators, and (c) because he was flaming people who were arguing against him.

As to your questions, my position is that apparent inconsistencies and strange facts can be found in all disasters and atrocities if one combs all of the evidence. There are always specific circumstances in any given face that make it appear to be unique or an outlier. I don't think it necessarily points to a grand alternate explanation being valid.

[Cyberella]

Oh please. Not again. Drop this insanity.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html
The leftists hate America so much that they have to stoop to this.

[2honest]

I also feel that there are open questions about 9 11 since some of the explanations aren't very convincing.

I have watched some of the loose change stuff and many of their claims cannot be taken seriously because it's pure guessing, like these 4 camera shots showing something hitting the Pentacon. The quality is so poor that I could claim it shows Starship Enterprise with no one being able to disprove it.

But lets look at some of the points.

#1:
With 4 planes being hijacked there was a considerable amount of time left between leaving their planned course and crashing into buildings/fields.
I don't understand why during that time nothing serious happend when there are plans how to dealt with a situation like that.
These explanations like there was a misunderstanding between the tower and whoever and due to a simulation there were no planes available doesn't sound very convincing in my eyes.
However, authorities and administration has shown several times that they can handle things extremely incompetent. Might as well be a series of coincidences.

#2:
Apparently building 7 got hit by pieces of the collapsing towers, caugth fire and was enduring a litte earthquake when the towers went down. I dont know how close this building was to the twins but I can imaging that its stability was seriously affected through the collapse of the towers. The fact that it went down that straight indeed raises some questions. I can imagine that authorities decided to bring it down by destroying it in order to prevent it from collapsing while fire fighters are still inside, but that's only guessing.

#4:
These planes were filled up with fuel, so there was much to burn and develop great heat. In addition when the planes crashed, the towers were hit by tons of material with at least 300 mph. Thats an enormious force. Therefore I don't buy it when people say other towers have endured more heat for many hours and didnt collapse since these other buildings weren't hit by planes.
From what I understand the most critical area was may be 3 floors that were badly damaged.
The fact that people inside were able to wave despite the heat is an interesting point. I can imagine that the heat wasn't equally distributed depending on where the fires developed. If you have in addition holes in the wall then there may be spots with a temperature low enough to survive.
The claim that the worst heat and the damage was concentrated around certain spots is also supported by the fact that when the tower started to collaps the upper half (what was above the floors hit) appeares like a cube which is tilting/canting/inclining. <-- Sorry, dont know which one is appropriate, in German: Würfel, der kippt.
It comes from the fact that one of the 4 corners lost stability first where the heat and damage was worst.
Once one corner of a floor collapses the whole floor collapses and the toppling/tilting part is being pulled straight. Since there were many more floors (equals enormious weight) above the one collapsing the whole building goes down.
This is how I understand it. Is it convincing and realistic? Well at least for me it is.

#6:
I dont know exactly what Bush did more than a few moments after he got the information.
These ten seconds after he was informed were used by Michael Moore to ridicule Bush. I think that's dishonest because what did Moore expect him to do? To jump around shouting "Disaster, disaster" in front of all the kids?
Even if the US administration wasn't involved at all, you must give him a few minutes to collect and think about it.

#7:
The story about the passports being found on a pile of rubble is hard to believe. But on the other hand you had plane crashes where parts of the luggage were found more or less undamaged. Might again be another concidence.

#8:
I dont understand that as well, because also the footage of several cameras around the Pentacon was
confiscated and never published.

Sadly the behaviour of US authorities/admimistration raises many questions.

Basically we have two opinions. Those who say it was an inside job. They claim that the pentacon was hit by a missle. How do you then explain the debris which was mainly ripped parts of a plane? It doesn't work, since more or less they also claim that there is not islamic terrorism since it's all done by the US.
Thats certianly nonsense.
We also have those who assume that is was a result of islamic terror and that US intelligence was completely unprepared and didn't have a clue.
Unfortenately we have people on both sides who seem to be credible.
 
I believe it was islamic terror but I find it hard to swallow that the US authorities were completely surprised.

I have a question too:
It was said that the hijackers shouted allahuakbar before the planes crashed. Where do they know that from? Did they find the black boxes and published it?

Finally, doubting some of the explanations around 9 11 doesn't turn one into a supporter of conspiracy or a lunatic.
I also want to add that those who sadly lost relatives and friends on 9 11  shouldn't possibly read all this stuff. I can imagine that it doesn't do any good to discuss all the details.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The main reason why I believe 9-11 was not an inside job is the most obvious: the last thing that Bush, the Saudi-lover, would ever want is any kind of publicity that makes his overlords look bad. The two planes crashing into the towers pretty much did exactly that. I honestly believe his first reaction to this was "oh s***, how are we gonna spin our way out of this one?".

However, there are lots of circumstantial reasons to dismiss these theories as well. I have never seen a 9-11 conspiracy theorist who was not out to prove that it was the Jews who were behind 9-11. I have not ever encountered a "9-11 truther" who is not an outright Nazi. In fact, a good number of 9-11 conspiracy theorists are outright White Nationalists of the David Duke ilk.

[RationalThought110]

Something that is disturbing that I don't think you mentioned:

      Condi Rice told her friend Willie Brown, the former mayor of San Francisco, not to take a flight on 9/11.  She has yet to answer the question of why she gave him that advice.  When she was asked it, she avoids answering the question and tries to change the topic. 


        If Condi Rice and some politicians are guilty of knowing something, Michael Moore's friend Al Gore would probably be guilty for what he did:

           http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/9/19/94144.shtml


     
    However, the hijackers are guilty for what they did.  Many of the conspiracy theorists want people to think that there isn't any threat.  They are wrong.     

[RationalThought110]

There was an actor, James Woods, who was on a flight with some of the hijackers at least a month before 9/11.   

[RationalThought110]

http://michellemalkin.com/2005/04/24/report-mohammed-atta-was-on-flight-with-actor-james-woods/

[Cyberella]

Another thread that will go on and on and on wasting time and energy better spent trying to bring down Obama.
Give it a rest.

[syyuge]

Fortunately for any one who had the time, opportunity and consideration to read the Guestbook atwww.kahane.org from July'2001 to June'2002 when they were closed down, he is least likely to believe in any conspiracy theories.     

With Regards...

[AsheDina]

I am SURE that London thinks the USA bombed  in London, and Spain, they feel that King GWB 43 did that the the Spaniards, Bali too. America is just doing this to everyone. Terrible ROTTEN Americans.
   BLAME AMERICA ALWAYS..............FIRST, we are the terrorists dont you know? **== **==
    If you all believe this [censored]'n bull, go line up to join Jeremiah Wright- so YOU TOO can Gd "d" America.

[Dr. Dan]

Let me answer the first question:

you wrote:1. Apparently we have a whole lot of Air Force Defenses in this country. We have a very high tech military. Maybe the best in the world. This military has protocols on how to deal with hijacked planes. It is my understanding that even commercial flights that go off slightly are quickly surrounded on both sides with US fighter planes on both sides. NORAD I believe is the organization in charge of this stuff.



Here's the deal...after Bill Clinton leading into GW Bush, all of us Americans were reticent and happy with everything the economy...we felt invincible and proud.  We felt safer than ever...  Even Norad felt safer than ever.  These terrorists attacked us from behind while we were looking straight ahead for fighter planes and missles coming from the Russians or somebody else...that's why we didnt' get there on time..that's why Al-Queda mastermined very successfully what they wanted to do.  Now we learned..

As far as youtube testimonies...Youtube is BS...youtube doesn't know anything..anybody can make up anytyhing they want on there and present it like a fact...So i don't buy anything from youtube if it is "testimony"...People lie today...Therefore, I trust very few.

[Dr. Dan]

I know a congregant of my synogogue who escaped tower 2 after tower 1 was hit...

and a patient of my brother's who worked at the WTC had a doctor's appointment that morning and essentially missed his chance to be trapped in the WTC that morning..


I guess they were all behind the planning of the WTC...   Khasvakhaleela...

sometimes what is obvious is exactly what it is...Alqueda outsmarted us..hopefully that will be the only time...

Except, now we have Obama getting away wiht murder..so it might just be that Americans are stupid...We are stupid...

[nikmatdam]

you skipped question number #5... what was it...? and okl. city was the dry-run for 9/11... proof is in the book... "the third terrorist" by jayna davis... check it out... she proves a consp. to cover up the existence of an iraqi ex-republican national guard member to sadaam... (the infamous john doe#2)... she is so well rec'vd... talk radio was puzzled by her proof that iraq had what to do with okl. city and bush didn't (or clinton either)... use this as justification for going into iraq...? and the answer which no one wants to hear... is that bush couldn't use what happened in okl. city bec. it would expose the cia/nsa structure of running al qaeda and blow the cover of the existence of the shadow gov't. that really runs this place... so as a lesser of two evils (for the slime anyway it is evil)... they resorted to and preferred to utilize a lie... a patently false fabrication of evidence of the existence of wmd... instead of using the truth to make their case with congress and the amer. people for going to war in iraq... they had to use a bald-face lie rather than the truth... bec. the truth is that while iraqi scum were involved they all had handlers from the mossad, cia and the fbi... and the above mentioned book proves this contention!!! it makes the case fro something truly sick rotting away at the heart of america and the world... and i know what it is... nik. on the cusp as usual... out....   

[Bruicy Kibbutz]

Lubab i know what you want. A million dollars!