General Category > General Discussion
please need some help with the Torah/Bible
AsheDina:
--- Quote from: Yonathan Ben Yakov on October 15, 2008, 10:23:50 PM ---basically if anyone can write this for me ill pay you.
--- End quote ---
:::D ("I'll pay you") lol
Yonathan- use modern day philosophies too. Maybe I am wrong, but Esau was a MURDERER- seems to me like Esau is Arab/Islam. G-d hated Esau- b/c he was a murderer from practically his beginnings. People tell me I am wrong about this all the time, but sorry I dont think so. This is a good writing on the subject:
http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles/jacob-esau.htm
cjd:
Yonathan, You need to work on this paper yourself. Nothing good will come from paying people to do your paper. I went to school when computers were used for not much other then record keeping. Doing a paper like that back then would have required going to one of the larger libraries to do the research. When I got there all the books would be out already. What a pain. You guys have the internet today with Tons of information at your finger tips. You can even pick peoples brain here in the forum. If we only had all this back then. Do your own paper you will do great and feel better about it in the process.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Paulette on October 16, 2008, 07:59:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: Yonathan Ben Yakov on October 15, 2008, 10:23:50 PM ---basically if anyone can write this for me ill pay you.
--- End quote ---
:::D ("I'll pay you") lol
Yonathan- use modern day philosophies too. Maybe I am wrong, but Esau was a MURDERER- seems to me like Esau is Arab/Islam. G-d hated Esau- b/c he was a murderer from practically his beginnings. People tell me I am wrong about this all the time, but sorry I dont think so. This is a good writing on the subject:
http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles/jacob-esau.htm
--- End quote ---
we are on a potentially thorny issue here, because
the rabbis associate
yishmael with arabs/islam,
and esau with christianity/the west.
This showed incredible foresight.. Jews have been persecuted continuously since the birth of christianity, by christians, up to very recently.
So it was a very fitting association.
the association is also from the fact that , I think there is a rashi that points it out.. there is a link between Rome and Esau's ancestry. Rome is of course the seat of christianity. (or a big form of it anyway).
of course, yishmael has a good and bad side, and esau has a good and bad side.
I do think that we are living in times when Esau is showing his nice side.
Esau's evil since the holocaust has been largely restrained.
Now esau biggest threat is killing us with kindness.. jews assimilating.
A spiritual holocaust.
I would associate esau with the west.. western civilization.
We have seen in recent times, that Esau can be VERY cold.. whereas Yishmael is very Wild.
There is a midrash(not always literal, but they teach us lessons). It says that when Yaakov embraced Esau, Esau tried to bite his neck, Yaakov's neck turned to marble, and Esau broke his teeth.
what it shows is how cold Esau can be.. It symbolizes the nazis.
Arabs are just wild animals.. I know both esau and yishmael are wild in the tenach. But it is yishmael whome the tenach says is a wild man father of a wild people, his hand shall be against every man and every man's hand shall be against him.
And this is really great...
If you quote that to a muslim.. as I have. They will think you are quoting from a book written 200 years ago. They will not believe it's in the Torah! That a book that old could have predicted that. Or, their jaws drop. I've seen both reactions.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
Yonathan, I would have helped write it for you (and I would have enjoyed it,) , but im extremly bissy this week. 3 midterms and a project due next week (during Hol Hamoed), and also some other writing but I will just have to hand it in late. and with the holiday going on now (guests, + Yom Tov, etc.)
when is the essay due? If after the 23rd, let me know, maybe I can direct you to some links for now.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Paulette on October 16, 2008, 07:59:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: Yonathan Ben Yakov on October 15, 2008, 10:23:50 PM ---basically if anyone can write this for me ill pay you.
--- End quote ---
:::D ("I'll pay you") lol
Yonathan- use modern day philosophies too. Maybe I am wrong, but Esau was a MURDERER- seems to me like Esau is Arab/Islam. G-d hated Esau- b/c he was a murderer from practically his beginnings. People tell me I am wrong about this all the time, but sorry I dont think so. This is a good writing on the subject:
http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles/jacob-esau.htm
--- End quote ---
Paulette,
As I said in my initial post, according to Jewish tradition Ishmael is the patriarch of the Arabs. Essau is the patriarch of the Edomites, the Romans. There is no way that Essau is related to the Arabs as Ishmael is well established as the head of the Arab nations.
muman613
--- Quote ---http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edom
Edom (Hebrew: אֱדוֹם, Standard Edom Tiberian ʾĔḏôm ; "red") is a name given to Esau in the Hebrew Bible, as well as to the nation descending from him. The nation's name in Assyrian was Udumi; in Syriac, ܐܕܘܡ; in Greek, Ἰδουμαία (Idoumaía); in Latin, Idumæa or Idumea.
The Edomite people were a Semitic-speaking tribal group inhabiting the Negev Desert and the Arabah valley of what is now southern Dead Sea and adjacent Jordan. The region has much reddish sandstone, which may have given rise to the name "Edom". The nation of Edom is known to have existed back to the 8th or 9th century B.C.E., and the Bible dates it back several centuries further. Recent archaeological evidence may indicate an Edomite nation as long ago as the 11th century B.C.E., but the topic is controversial. The nation ceased to exist as a settled state with the Jewish-Roman Wars.
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Later in Jewish history, the Roman Empire came to be identified with Edom, and specifically the remnants of Amalek. This can be seen in rabbinic and Pharasaic writings such as the Mishnah or the Talmud, the Spanish Rabbinic leaders Ramban and Ibn-Ezra, the French Rabbinic scholars Rashi (1040-1105) and Tosphoth, Babylonian Jewish scholars like Sa-adia Gaon and other Jewish exilarchs, the Lithuanian leader Rabbi Vilnius Gaon and Baal-Shem-Tov. They use "Edomite" to refer to Rome, the Byzantine Empire. In parallel, the Islamic world is referred to as "Ishmael".
--- End quote ---
PS: I think you meant that Essau was a Hunter, not a murderer. What is your source for calling Essau a murderer? In fact Essau was a very religious and observant man, not like you portray him.
--- Quote ---Biblical description
The Bible depicts Esau as a hunter who prefers the outdoor life, qualities that distinguished him from his brother who was a shy, or simple man depending on the translation of the Hebrew word "Tam" (which also means "relatively perfect man").[1] According to the Bible, Esau is the ancestor of the Edomites.[1] In the Book of Genesis, Esau is frequently shown being supplanted by his younger twin Jacob (Israel).
Genesis 25:19-25 narrates Esau's birth. He emerges from the womb with Jacob grasping his heel. He is described thusly: "Now the first came forth red, all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau."
--- End quote ---
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