Author Topic: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever  (Read 2484 times)

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Offline Ulli

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Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« on: February 16, 2009, 04:02:43 AM »
Chavez calls Venezuela vote mandate for socialism

By CHRISTOPHER TOOTHAKER – 54 minutes ago

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — President Hugo Chavez says a referendum victory that removed limits on his re-election is a mandate to intensify his socialist agenda for decades to come. Opponents warn of an impending dictatorship.

Both sides had called the outcome of Sunday's vote key to the future of this South American country, split down the middle between those who worship the president for redistributing Venezuela's oil riches and those who see him as a power-hungry autocrat.

"Those who voted "yes" today voted for socialism, for revolution," Chavez thundered to thousands of ecstatic supporters jamming the streets around the presidential palace. Fireworks lit up the Caracas skyline, and one man walked though the crowd carrying a painting of Chavez that read: "Forever."

Josefa Dugarte stared at the crowd from the stoop of her apartment building with look of dismay.

"These people don't realize what they have done," she muttered.

With 94 percent of the vote counted, official results showed the amendment passing 54 percent to 46 percent, an irreversible trend, and opposition leaders accepted the results. Tibisay Lucena, president of National Electoral Council, said turnout was 67 percent.

The constitutional overhaul allows all public officials to run for re-election as many times as they want, removing barriers to a Chavez candidacy in the next presidential elections in 2012 and beyond.

"In 2012 there will be presidential elections, and unless G-d decides otherwise, unless the people decide otherwise, this soldier is already a candidate," Chavez said to applause. First elected in 1998, he has said he might stay in power until 2049, when he'll be 95.

But analysts said Chavez shouldn't count on getting re-elected just yet.

"Chavez's intention is clear: He aspires to be president for life," said Michael Shifter of the Inter-American Dialogue in Washington. "He is convinced he embodies the popular will and is indispensable to the country's progress. But his capacity to pull this off is far from assured."

He said the global financial crisis and the plunging price of oil, which accounts for 94 percent of Venezuela's exports and nearly half its federal budget, will limit Chavez's ability to maintain the level of public spending that has fueled his popularity.

"The greatest challenge the government now faces is governing in the face of crisis and not falling into triumphalism," said Miguel Tinker Salas, a professor at Pomona College in Claremont, California.

At their campaign headquarters, Chavez opponents hugged one another, and some cried. They said the results were skewed by Chavez's broad use of state resources to get out the vote, through a battery of state-run news media, pressure on 2 million public employees and frequent presidential speeches which all television stations were required to air.

With the courts, the legislature and the election council all under his influence, and now with no limits on his re-election, officials say Chavez is virtually unstoppable.

"Effectively this will become a dictatorship," opposition leader Omar Barboza told The Associated Press. "It's control of all the powers, lack of separation of powers, unscrupulous use of state resources, persecution of adversaries."

Associated Press writers Ian James and Fabiola Sanchez contributed to this story.

Source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g-XT1LHvGnHwytS8tnBmfnd_BcqgD96CIANG3
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 04:56:35 AM by Pheasant »
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline SavetheWest

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Re: Hugo Chavez want to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2009, 04:09:54 AM »
This is a preview for all Western countries.  No matter how badly a leader does, the uneducated black slums will keep on reelecting them because they make them feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel good.  It will be tyranny through elections.  I don't know how this could have happened legitimately.  The Venezuelan economy has been hit hard by the drop in oil and the cooperatives they have created have been a disaster with little to no training for skilled workers. 

This maniac flew over the countryside and during the flight, had a vision of a socialist city.  He had his ministers work on it immediately.  Maybe Barack can be president for life too, or maybe Michelle can run after Barack....and then the kids

Offline RanterMaximus

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 08:22:54 AM »
Did Jimmy Carter have any involvement in this.  I know he must be proud of that fat slob.  If this  country had a set of brass bollocks, a bullet would have given him his deserved trip to hell.

Offline alonmizrahi

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 09:48:32 AM »
well my friends i live here in Venezuela and here the economy everyday is worst, and anti-semitism too and promotioned by the goverment now even religious jews have to hide their kippah/yarmulkas for fear of being attacked for that my family and I soon will be going back to chile and after well me i want to make aliyah to israel but here everything is getting worst politically,economically in everything the people is divided but the only hope the opposition is wining more and more votes.
Muslims are like a cancer and what a doctor have to do to save a patient with cancer extirpate the tumour, if the world want to live in peace we have to get rid of the Muslim cancer, we are the doctors

Offline Ulli

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 10:28:32 AM »
It is the old song. First this idiots destroy the economy and then they make more and more people dependent on social aid. This people are their basis of political power.

Then the country is turning more and more in a dictatorship.

It was the same in ancient Rome and in France after the revolution of 1789.

The same things Chavez has nearly succeed with are beginning today in Europe and the USA.

Specially in Europe it appears really unreal. Naturally after milliones of milliones of murdered people, the European people should have learned their lesson of totalitarian regimes.

But it seems they have not.  :o
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 11:42:12 AM »
What can we say? The will of the people has made itself felt.

Hugo Chavez (ys"vz) is a Nazi pig, but what does this vote say about the Venezuelan people? Hitler was elected democratically after all too, by a much greater margin than Chavez, mind you.

The people of Venezuela like Chavez because he plunders the rich to give to them, and because he hates the "gringos" of the United States. Typical third-world petty jealousy and resentment.

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 12:51:12 PM »
What can we say? The will of the people has made itself felt.

Hugo Chavez (ys"vz) is a Nazi pig, but what does this vote say about the Venezuelan people? Hitler was elected democratically after all too, by a much greater margin than Chavez, mind you.

The people of Venezuela like Chavez because he plunders the rich to give to them, and because he hates the "gringos" of the United States. Typical third-world petty jealousy and resentment.

no, hitler never received a majority of the vote.  Here is what he actually got:
Hindenburg 49.6 percent
Hitler 30.1 percent
Thaelmann 13.2 percent
Duesterberg 6.8 percent

Since no one got 50% of the vote, they held a runoff.  Here are the results:
Hindenburg 53.0 percent
Hitler 36.8 percent
Thaelmann 10.2 percent

Way behind Chavez.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 01:14:29 PM »
Like to see your sources. Not surprising to see you defending the Germans, I mean you called Jews "Christ-killers", remember?

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2009, 01:18:41 PM »
Like to see your sources. Not surprising to see you defending the Germans, I mean you called Jews "Christ-killers", remember?

defending the germans or correcting your factually incorrect statement?  Not even going to respond to that other statement, same old stupidity.  Here's your source by the way, take a history class before throwing out statements that simply are not true.
http://books.google.com/books?id=sY8svb-MNUwC&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=Hindenburg+49.6+percent+Hitler+30.1+percent+Thaelmann+13.2+percent+Duesterberg+6.8+percent&source=web&ots=FGzq-Nhbk7&sig=wIbvHMochhIpcGwCwrITrDC7aGU&hl=en&ei=u7OZSfIHlbq3B-21uaIL&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPA158,M1


Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 01:20:21 PM »
Do you want me to embarrass you by posting a link, again, to that comment?

Offline RanterMaximus

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 01:20:57 PM »
I have a feeling the day will come when Obama has Chavez over at The White House to show unity.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Offline t_h_j

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2009, 01:23:02 PM »
Do you want me to embarrass you by posting a link, again, to that comment?

post it 1,000 times, since I didn't write the comment, and everyone here (except you) knows it.  Nice deflection though.  Just admit your error, or remove the erroneous content from your post.  Or just continue to wallow in your ignorance, whether it is intentional or not.

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2009, 01:23:57 PM »
Explain yourself t_h_j:

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,19797.msg217847.html#msg217847

show me what posts I have to explain there.  Show me a single post I even made in that thread.  Then ask yourself why its relevant.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2009, 01:31:43 PM »
Quote from: Norman Davies
In August 1934, following the President's death, he called anouther plebiscite to approve his own election to the new party-state position of 'Fuhrer and Reich-Chancellor' with full emergency powers. This time he received 90 per cent support.

(Norman Davies, Europe: A History, New York: Oxford University Press, 1996, p. 969)

Now an explanation of your post is not only in order, but only fair. Not that it's really needed though; your original post was in quite a bit of detail.

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2009, 01:40:23 PM »
Quote from: Norman Davies
In August 1934, following the President's death, he called anouther plebiscite to approve his own election to the new party-state position of 'Fuhrer and Reich-Chancellor' with full emergency powers. This time he received 90 per cent support.

(Norman Davies, Europe: A History, New York: Oxford University Press, 1996, p. 969)

Now an explanation of your post is not only in order, but only fair. Not that it's really needed though; your original post was in quite a bit of detail.

lol.  You understand that those were not votes in an election right?  And you also presume that fair, fraud free voting could take place in a police state where you were liable to be beaten at best for not voting "correctly"?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2009, 01:41:52 PM »
Yes, yes Hidden Author, Hitler was the only Nazi in all of Germany.

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2009, 01:42:43 PM »
Yes, yes Hidden Author, Hitler was the only Nazi in all of Germany.

A history class will do you well.  Probably a political science class as well. 

Offline SavetheWest

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2009, 11:10:35 PM »
well my friends i live here in Venezuela and here the economy everyday is worst, and anti-semitism too and promotioned by the goverment now even religious jews have to hide their kippah/yarmulkas for fear of being attacked for that my family and I soon will be going back to chile and after well me i want to make aliyah to israel but here everything is getting worst politically,economically in everything the people is divided but the only hope the opposition is wining more and more votes.

I'm sorry to hear that.  Please take care of yourself. I don't blame you for wanting to leave but there is still something terrible about countries making life so hard for Jewish people that they leave these long standing old communities behind. 

Offline SavetheWest

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2009, 11:12:51 PM »
It is the old song. First this idiots destroy the economy and then they make more and more people dependent on social aid. This people are their basis of political power.

Then the country is turning more and more in a dictatorship.

It was the same in ancient Rome and in France after the revolution of 1789.

The same things Chavez has nearly succeed with are beginning today in Europe and the USA.

Specially in Europe it appears really unreal. Naturally after milliones of milliones of murdered people, the European people should have learned their lesson of totalitarian regimes.

But it seems they have not.  :o

In some ways I think Europe is worse and in some ways better than the USA.  The USA is really rapidly changing and has more legal and illegal immigrants than anywhere in the world.  Europe seems to be more friendly to socialism even though the USA is doing some terrible things right now.

Online Chaim Ben Pesach

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2009, 08:20:21 PM »
What can we say? The will of the people has made itself felt.

Hugo Chavez (ys"vz) is a Nazi pig, but what does this vote say about the Venezuelan people? Hitler was elected democratically after all too, by a much greater margin than Chavez, mind you.

The people of Venezuela like Chavez because he plunders the rich to give to them, and because he hates the "gringos" of the United States. Typical third-world petty jealousy and resentment.

no, hitler never received a majority of the vote.  Here is what he actually got:
Hindenburg 49.6 percent
Hitler 30.1 percent
Thaelmann 13.2 percent
Duesterberg 6.8 percent

Since no one got 50% of the vote, they held a runoff.  Here are the results:
Hindenburg 53.0 percent
Hitler 36.8 percent
Thaelmann 10.2 percent

Way behind Chavez.

thj, attempting to minimize German support for Hitler is a form of holocaust revisionism.

I don't know what your motives are, but your statistics are grossly misleading.

Hindeburg and his party were the ones who appointed Hitler Chancellor of Germany. So the 53% of Germans who voted for Hindeburg in effect also supported Nazis. The generals, business tycoons, politicians and media personalities in Hindeburg's party loyally and fanatically defended Hitler, fought with Hitler, and even worshipped Hitler until the last day of the war.

Hitler was by far the most popular and adored leader in German history. Virtually all Germans worshipped Hitler. All of Germany and Austria adopted the Nazi dream of world conquest.

German and Austrian soldiers fought fanatically for the Nazi cause. Millions of Germans willing gave their lives in the war, millions more were wounded and maimed (many severely).

The German people carried out the holocaust in which 6 million innocent Jewish men, women and children were brutally murdered. Germany had universal conscription into the military. So the German military really was a "people's army". Some 2 million Jews were murdered not in the concentration camps, but by ordinary German soldiers who used the unarmed, defenseless Jews as target practice.

The German Nazi news media bragged about how they were murdering Jews during the holocaust, because they knew that the German people would welcome such news. Ordinary Germans were shown how Jews were being exterminated to boost German morale during the war. Slaughtering 1.5 million Jewish children and infants is what boosted the morale of the German people.

thj, your suggestion that most Germans did not support Hitler is a flagrant distortion of history. It is a whitewashing of the most evil crimes ever committed. First, you present us with election results that are completely misleading. Then you suggest that a subsequent election in which Hitler received 90% of the vote is irrelevant because it was conducted in a police state. Again, you are suggesting that many Germans would have been against Hitler if not for the fact that Germany was a police state - which is a blatant lie told by Germans who want to sugarcoat their monstrous history.

That generation of Germans will burn in hell forever for their unforgivable crimes. And so will anyone in this generation who excuses their horrific barbarism.

We pledge to the 6 million Jewish victims of this darkest chapter in world history: We will never forget. And we will never forgive.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2009, 08:56:51 PM »
Chaim, you are absolutely correct. Hindenburg (ys"vz)'s party was almost identical to Hitler (ys"vz)'s party--maybe a wee bit more "moderate" (or they practiced taqqiyah more than the NSDAP did), and in practice was one and the same with it. The difference between Hindenburg's party and the Nazi party was like the difference between the larger, more "moderate" Kadima party and the more "extreme" Labor party: virtually identical in platform, and natural coalition allies in the government together.

And by the way, in 1934 Germany was by no means a "police state" yet. The real totalitarian machinery of the Reich was not in place until the late 30s; Hitler was smart enough to test the waters by gradually upping the ante of his dictatorial prowess to make sure the public didn't resist. And they not only didn't resist, they loved his increasingly tyrannical dictates and policies.

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2009, 10:32:18 PM »
Chaim, you are absolutely correct. Hindenburg (ys"vz)'s party was almost identical to Hitler (ys"vz)'s party--maybe a wee bit more "moderate" (or they practiced taqqiyah more than the NSDAP did), and in practice was one and the same with it. The difference between Hindenburg's party and the Nazi party was like the difference between the larger, more "moderate" Kadima party and the more "extreme" Labor party: virtually identical in platform, and natural coalition allies in the government together.

And by the way, in 1934 Germany was by no means a "police state" yet. The real totalitarian machinery of the Reich was not in place until the late 30s; Hitler was smart enough to test the waters by gradually upping the ante of his dictatorial prowess to make sure the public didn't resist. And they not only didn't resist, they loved his increasingly tyrannical dictates and policies.

Hindenburg ran as an independent. 

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2009, 10:37:43 PM »
What can we say? The will of the people has made itself felt.

Hugo Chavez (ys"vz) is a Nazi pig, but what does this vote say about the Venezuelan people? Hitler was elected democratically after all too, by a much greater margin than Chavez, mind you.

The people of Venezuela like Chavez because he plunders the rich to give to them, and because he hates the "gringos" of the United States. Typical third-world petty jealousy and resentment.

no, hitler never received a majority of the vote.  Here is what he actually got:
Hindenburg 49.6 percent
Hitler 30.1 percent
Thaelmann 13.2 percent
Duesterberg 6.8 percent

Since no one got 50% of the vote, they held a runoff.  Here are the results:
Hindenburg 53.0 percent
Hitler 36.8 percent
Thaelmann 10.2 percent

Way behind Chavez.

thj, attempting to minimize German support for Hitler is a form of holocaust revisionism.

I don't know what your motives are, but your statistics are grossly misleading.

Hindeburg and his party were the ones who appointed Hitler Chancellor of Germany. So the 53% of Germans who voted for Hindeburg in effect also supported Nazis. The generals, business tycoons, politicians and media personalities in Hindeburg's party loyally and fanatically defended Hitler, fought with Hitler, and even worshipped Hitler until the last day of the war.

Hitler was by far the most popular and adored leader in German history. Virtually all Germans worshipped Hitler. All of Germany and Austria adopted the Nazi dream of world conquest.

German and Austrian soldiers fought fanatically for the Nazi cause. Millions of Germans willing gave their lives in the war, millions more were wounded and maimed (many severely).

The German people carried out the holocaust in which 6 million innocent Jewish men, women and children were brutally murdered. Germany had universal conscription into the military. So the German military really was a "people's army". Some 2 million Jews were murdered not in the concentration camps, but by ordinary German soldiers who used the unarmed, defenseless Jews as target practice.

The German Nazi news media bragged about how they were murdering Jews during the holocaust, because they knew that the German people would welcome such news. Ordinary Germans were shown how Jews were being exterminated to boost German morale during the war. Slaughtering 1.5 million Jewish children and infants is what boosted the morale of the German people.

thj, your suggestion that most Germans did not support Hitler is a flagrant distortion of history. It is a whitewashing of the most evil crimes ever committed. First, you present us with election results that are completely misleading. Then you suggest that a subsequent election in which Hitler received 90% of the vote is irrelevant because it was conducted in a police state. Again, you are suggesting that many Germans would have been against Hitler if not for the fact that Germany was a police state - which is a blatant lie told by Germans who want to sugarcoat their monstrous history.

That generation of Germans will burn in hell forever for their unforgivable crimes. And so will anyone in this generation who excuses their horrific barbarism.

We pledge to the 6 million Jewish victims of this darkest chapter in world history: We will never forget. And we will never forgive.

I'm not minimizing anything, in an election that is simply how they voted.  He recieved far less votes than chavez did in his presidential elections.  A plebiscite simply isn't an election, since you are not running against anyone, its just a yes or no question.  You have to be running against someone in order to have an election.

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Re: Hugo Chavez wants to rule Venezuela forever
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2009, 11:10:21 PM »
You are completely missing the point. Bernie Sanders I-VA is technically an "independent" too, but he is almost a mirror image of the Democrats in practice. The vast majority of Germans voted for the Nazi Party or the pro-Nazi party in 1932, giving the Nazis a stranglehold coalition.