Why do Christians care about Jews?

[The One and Only Mo]

OK guys I give up. I don't understand why there are Christians supporting a Jewish movement. I've kept this to myself for a long time, but I feel like I need to share. I wouldn't, in a million years, join ANY movement that wasn't based on Judaism (sports aside). Why do you guys support Israel/JTF? Don't you guys believe in Jesus and all that New Testament stuff? Aren't the Jews just an afterthought? I can see you guys supporting JTF based on it's position on the U.S.A. and chutz l'aretz, but how can you support Judaism if you guys are devout Christians? I apologize if I'm coming off as rude or negative, but I don't see how gentiles can truly contribute to a Jewish movement whose sole purpose is for the sake of Jews. I just need to know how Christians can put up with all this Judaism and why.

[Lisa]

Mo2388, I'm Jewish, but here's my two cents.

There are Christian Zionists who believe Genesis where G-d wrote, I will bless them that bless you and curse those that curse you.  And along with Chaim's position on what America needs to do, they're also no fan of islamos. 

But that's just how I see it.

[The One and Only Mo]

Mo2388, I'm Jewish, but here's my two cents.

There are Christian Zionists who believe Genesis where G-d wrote, I will bless them that bless you and curse those that curse you.  And along with Chaim's position on what America needs to do, they're also no fan of islamos. 

But that's just how I see it.

So all the Christian members here are here because of those reasons ONLY?

[Americanhero1]

What you don't want Christians to be members of the organization?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Mo.

Some people are secure in their own identity.  For instance, some nonJews (including some christians) are secure enough in their own beliefs or their own identity, that they don't feel the need to "change" everyone else or "change" Jews.   They are just fine with supporting Jews as a friendly ally with common interests.   They want good for the Jew and the Jew can want good for them.   Since they believe in the Bible, the nonJew knows that complete redemption comes to the entire world after it comes to the Jewish people.  So they want good for us because it's good for everyone.     

Not to mention, muslims did 9/11.   And islamic terror seems to be everywhere now.   These are all factors IMO.    Not sure why it's so surprising to you.    As a Jew you should know what it's like to be comfortable in yourself and not wanting to change all the other people (ie, you don't want to go proseltyzing to nonJews or tell them to learn gemara).....

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

OK guys I give up. I don't understand why there are Christians supporting a Jewish movement. I've kept this to myself for a long time, but I feel like I need to share. I wouldn't, in a million years, join ANY movement that wasn't based on Judaism (sports aside). Why do you guys support Israel/JTF? Don't you guys believe in Jesus and all that New Testament stuff? Aren't the Jews just an afterthought? I can see you guys supporting JTF based on it's position on the U.S.A. and chutz l'aretz, but how can you support Judaism if you guys are devout Christians? I apologize if I'm coming off as rude or negative, but I don't see how gentiles can truly contribute to a Jewish movement whose sole purpose is for the sake of Jews. I just need to know how Christians can put up with all this Judaism and why.

Mo, Christianity is a Judeocentric faith. We are based on Judaism. We use the same Tanach that you do and almost all of the apostles and first church fathers, not to mention Jesus Himself, were Jewish.

[angryChineseKahanist]

Why not?
We're not all like Mel Gibson.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Why not?
We're not all like Mel Gibson.

lol

[Lisa]

Mo2388, I'm Jewish, but here's my two cents.

There are Christian Zionists who believe Genesis where G-d wrote, I will bless them that bless you and curse those that curse you.  And along with Chaim's position on what America needs to do, they're also no fan of islamos. 

But that's just how I see it.

So all the Christian members here are here because of those reasons ONLY?

I'm not saying that's the ONLY reason Christians support JTF.  That's just the impression I get. 

[Madmarv]

OK guys I give up. I don't understand why there are Christians supporting a Jewish movement. I've kept this to myself for a long time, but I feel like I need to share. I wouldn't, in a million years, join ANY movement that wasn't based on Judaism (sports aside). Why do you guys support Israel/JTF? Don't you guys believe in Jesus and all that New Testament stuff? Aren't the Jews just an afterthought? I can see you guys supporting JTF based on it's position on the U.S.A. and chutz l'aretz, but how can you support Judaism if you guys are devout Christians? I apologize if I'm coming off as rude or negative, but I don't see how gentiles can truly contribute to a Jewish movement whose sole purpose is for the sake of Jews. I just need to know how Christians can put up with all this Judaism and why.

I know what you mean.
I'm a christian arab myself, living in israel, and yes I might not be a zionist, I don't believe non-jews can be zionists (no offense to anyone) because this means that they believe that god have given Israel to the jews, and made it their homeland until the messiah arrives and settle all things right = Judaism. However you try to look at Zionism, you will always end up with Judaism. I'm not against, there is a different, I just don't believe it, or in it.
However ... my main reason to support jtf and israel, is Islam. I [censored] hate Islam so much, its a plague, a disaster that have struck the moral, and the intellectual human brain 1400 years ago. And its eating me from the inside, just sitting here doing nothing makes me feel guilty, so, this is one common thing between us (christians) and you (jews).
Another thing, just as much as you think we are different, think no more ... we believe in the torah, the torah is part of our religion as well, we believe in it and in the new testimony together as one. The new testimony is just about jesus life and his teachings, it doesn't contradict or negate the torah, everyone knows that... However, we might not believe in the Talmud.

Hope that answers your skepticism.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

If you are not a Zionist, Marv, how can you support us at all?

[Lisa]

Madmarv, are you happy living in Israel? 

[Yochai]

OK guys I give up. I don't understand why there are Christians supporting a Jewish movement. I've kept this to myself for a long time, but I feel like I need to share. I wouldn't, in a million years, join ANY movement that wasn't based on Judaism (sports aside). Why do you guys support Israel/JTF? Don't you guys believe in Jesus and all that New Testament stuff? Aren't the Jews just an afterthought? I can see you guys supporting JTF based on it's position on the U.S.A. and chutz l'aretz, but how can you support Judaism if you guys are devout Christians? I apologize if I'm coming off as rude or negative, but I don't see how gentiles can truly contribute to a Jewish movement whose sole purpose is for the sake of Jews. I just need to know how Christians can put up with all this Judaism and why.

I know what you mean.
I'm a christian arab myself, living in israel, and yes I might not be a zionist, I don't believe non-jews can be zionists (no offense to anyone) because this means that they believe that G-d have given Israel to the jews, and made it their homeland until the messiah arrives and settle all things right = Judaism. However you try to look at Zionism, you will always end up with Judaism. I'm not against, there is a different, I just don't believe it, or in it.
However ... my main reason to support jtf and israel, is Islam. I stupid hate Islam so much, its a plague, a disaster that have struck the moral, and the intellectual human brain 1400 years ago. And its eating me from the inside, just sitting here doing nothing makes me feel guilty, so, this is one common thing between us (christians) and you (jews).
Another thing, just as much as you think we are different, think no more ... we believe in the torah, the torah is part of our religion as well, we believe in it and in the new testimony together as one. The new testimony is just about jesus life and his teachings, it doesn't contradict or negate the torah, everyone knows that... However, we might not believe in the Talmud.

Hope that answers your skepticism.

I think the notion that one must be a Jew to be Zionist is absurd, but I do not blame you as clearly your Palestinian schooling has imbued that into you, as much as you seem to have escaped the propaganda.

Why must one be Jewish to believe that God gave Israel to the Jews?  You just said that Christians believe in the Torah, and it says that in the Torah, so to me it seems weird that one is Christian but states that only Jews can be Zionist.

If you believe in the Torah, you believe in Zionism.

[Serbian Canadian]

This reminds me of an old thread I read on here that was made by a Serbian member where he questioned JTF's motives for supporting Serbia.

Anyways, I see a lot of similarities and parralels with the Jewish and the Serbian people. We have both been persecuted throughout our history and have suffered tremendously to say the least. The Serbian Christian Orthodox church has never had any problems with Judaism nor has it persecuted Jews. I truly believe that Jews and Serbs are and should be allies. In fact, Serbia and America should also be allies. Religious Jews and espiecially Orthodox Jews hold the same principal and moral values as Orthodox Serbs do. I believe that most Serbs on this forum would agree with me on that.

JTF is a good movement. I agree with a lot of JTF's positions. Obviously I despise Islam. I also believe that Israel belongs to the Jewish people. So there are a lot of good reasons for supporting JTF. There are a lot of intelligent people here and there are a lot of interesting topics to talk about. But that's just me. I'm worried though because it sounds like you have a lot of hostility towards Christians. Though I completely understand why you have this concern. If JTF had nothing to do with Serbia, I probably wouldn't be here and I probably could care less about the movement. But having been here for a while and learning about Israel more and more, the more I realize that JTF is right.

[muman613]

<snip>
Another thing, just as much as you think we are different, think no more ... we believe in the torah, the torah is part of our religion as well, we believe in it and in the new testimony together as one. The new testimony is just about jesus life and his teachings, it doesn't contradict or negate the torah, everyone knows that... However, we might not believe in the Talmud.

Hope that answers your skepticism. :)

Actually there is much in the NT which contradicts the Torah...

1) Jesus is G-d
2) Trinity
3) Jesus is Moshiach
4) Abrogation of the Oral Law
5) Understanding of Good Vs Evil {Satan vs Devil, Original Sin, etc.}
6) Praying to Jesus instead of praying to Hashem.
7) Images {i.e. cross w/dead deity}
8) NT Seeks to replace Torah
9) Requiring a human sacrifice to atone for sin {He died for their sins...}

And there are many other differences...

PS: we can get along as long as the Christian members don't expect us to believe that  stuff..

[Debbie Shafer]

Of course we know the scriptures in Genesis, that I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.  We also believe the Jewish people have been treated inhumanely by Hamas and Hezbollah, and Islam,  and we do not believe the Palestinians have claim to the land that God gave to Abraham.   My love for Israel and the Jewish people came from studying the entire bible, and knowing what the biblical days were like, and knowledge of Jesus who died so all of us could be saved from sin and death.

We gentiles were given the gospel too, and it is God's plan for us to bless and love God's people.   I also believe this is no coincidence that we have come together in unity against Islam and this administration.   I fear that this administration has some pretty evil plans in mind for Israel and America.  I belong to 5 Jewish organizations and contribute to all, and to merchants in Jerusalem to help them.   The love comes from God. I am totally and earnestly truthful in what I'm saying.  We were destined to be united at this time in history.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Actually there is much in the NT which contradicts the Torah...

1) Jesus is G-d
2) Trinity
3) Jesus is Moshiach
4) Abrogation of the Oral Law
5) Understanding of Good Vs Evil {Satan vs Devil, Original Sin, etc.}
6) Praying to Jesus instead of praying to Hashem.
7) Images {i.e. cross w/dead deity}
8 ) NT Seeks to replace Torah
9) Requiring a human sacrifice to atone for sin {He died for their sins...}

And there are many other differences...

PS: we can get along as long as the Christian members don't expect us to believe that  stuff..

This is a matter of disagreement, Muman. We do not believe at all that Christian theology contradicts Torah (i.e. we say that Jesus is Hashem) and we certainly don't believe Torah is obsolete.

We don't need to go over our differences each and every time.

[muman613]

Of course we know the scriptures in Genesis, that I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.  We also believe the Jewish people have been treated inhumanely by Hamas and Hezbollah, and Islam,  and we do not believe the Palestinians have claim to the land that G-d gave to Abraham.   My love for Israel and the Jewish people came from studying the entire bible, and knowing what the biblical days were like, and knowledge of Jesus who died so all of us could be saved from sin and death.

We gentiles were given the gospel too, and it is G-d's plan for us to bless and love G-d's people.   I also believe this is no coincidence that we have come together in unity against Islam and this administration.   I fear that this administration has some pretty evil plans in mind for Israel and America.  I belong to 5 Jewish organizations and contribute to all, and to merchants in Jerusalem to help them.   The love comes from G-d. I am totally and earnestly truthful in what I'm saying.  We were destined to be united at this time in history.

Do you have some scriptural basis for this? According to scriptures {as I understand} we don't need any help from the nations to accomplish our messianic completion...

PS: Although I have heard many Rabbis explain that the righteous gentiles will certainly be in the world to come. But there is a specific definition of what constitutes a righteous gentile.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Do you have some scriptural basis for this? According to scriptures {as I understand} we don't need any help from the nations to accomplish our messianic completion...

No Gentile Zionists say that Jews "need" us, no, but we do believe that we were called by G-d to offer our blessing in any way that we can.

[muman613]

Do you have some scriptural basis for this? According to scriptures {as I understand} we don't need any help from the nations to accomplish our messianic completion...

No Gentile Zionists say that Jews "need" us, no, but we do believe that we were called by G-d to offer our blessing in any way that we can.

I certainly believe that you feel a calling because I have witnessed your devotion to this cause, and the cause of righteousness... I hope that the entire Church is full of people who feel a calling by Hashem to be a part of the story of Creation of this Olam {world}.

BTW, I have said many times that all humanity is holy... I hope that I have not hurt anyones feelings by my expressing these Jewish religious ideas. And of course every Rabbi can interpret things according to their understanding. I am not a Rabbi, and I only learn from my experience and studying Torah online with many wonderful Rabbis around the country.

[Madmarv]

I think the notion that one must be a Jew to be Zionist is absurd, but I do not blame you as clearly your Palestinian schooling has imbued that into you, as much as you seem to have escaped the propaganda.

Why must one be Jewish to believe that G-d gave Israel to the Jews?  You just said that Christians believe in the Torah, and it says that in the Torah, so to me it seems weird that one is Christian but states that only Jews can be Zionist.

If you believe in the Torah, you believe in Zionism.

My palestinian schooling? true our schools teach Islamic history, and more of pro palestinian propaganda, but who says I believe in this? being here in this forum clearly states the opposite.

Let me research about the underlined sentence first and ask people with greater knowledge than me about christianity, and I'll get back to you.

Lisa: Happy is a relative term I'm happy that I don't live in any other arabic country, if that's what you mean ... however, I'd gladly live in lebanon 100 years ago (when islamic retardation haven't been spread there yet).

[Spectator]

I am glad there are Christian members here. While there are some major theological disagreements between Judaism and Christianity, one is not a complete antithesis of another. We have some important things in common.

I also agree with KWRBT when he said:

Some people are secure in their own identity.  For instance, some nonJews (including some christians) are secure enough in their own beliefs or their own identity, that they don't feel the need to "change" everyone else or "change" Jews.   They are just fine with supporting Jews as a friendly ally with common interests. They want good for the Jew and the Jew can want good for them.   Since they believe in the Bible, the nonJew knows that complete redemption comes to the entire world after it comes to the Jewish people.  So they want good for us because it's good for everyone.     

As for Christian antisemites, I don't believe their anti-Semitism is because of Christianity. Right, they search and find things in Christian religion to hate Jews but they are just seeking for excuses. If they were Muslims, Pagans or of some other belief, they would be the same anti-Semites. Their anit-Semitism is something on a very fundamental level, more basic than nation, religion or culture.

My personal opinion is that JTF is not purely Jewish movement. JTF challenges moral degradation and strive for dictatorship (be it Islamic or Marxist), the things that threaten both Jews and Gentiles alike.

[Spectator]

I would add something.

JTF is an American organization. JTF cares about America, wants America to be strong and happy. As a non-American, I see it very clear from outside.

I respect this. Torah says us that if a country you live in does not persecute Jews, you are must be a good citizen and the country's laws are as obligatory as the Torah laws.

[nessuno]

<snip>
Another thing, just as much as you think we are different, think no more ... we believe in the torah, the torah is part of our religion as well, we believe in it and in the new testimony together as one. The new testimony is just about jesus life and his teachings, it doesn't contradict or negate the torah, everyone knows that... However, we might not believe in the Talmud.

Hope that answers your skepticism.

Actually there is much in the NT which contradicts the Torah...

1) Jesus is G-d
2) Trinity
3) Jesus is Moshiach
4) Abrogation of the Oral Law
5) Understanding of Good Vs Evil {Satan vs Devil, Original Sin, etc.}
6) Praying to Jesus instead of praying to Hashem.
7) Images {i.e. cross w/dead deity}
NT Seeks to replace Torah
9) Requiring a human sacrifice to atone for sin {He died for their sins...}

And there are many other differences...

PS: we can get along as long as the Christian members don't expect us to believe that  stuff..

I have news for you, Muman.
No one expects you to believe 'that stuff'.  You are Jewish. 
I don't see any evidence that the Gentile members are attempting to convert you, or Mo, to Christianity.

What is the point of this thread?  Is it an attempt to drive a wedge between the members of the forum?

P.S. I don't accept your disclaimer.  Your words are often very offensive, when it comes to Christians, and I believe they are meant to be.  No big deal.  It's just the way you feel.  Stick with it.

[cjd]

<snip>
Another thing, just as much as you think we are different, think no more ... we believe in the torah, the torah is part of our religion as well, we believe in it and in the new testimony together as one. The new testimony is just about jesus life and his teachings, it doesn't contradict or negate the torah, everyone knows that... However, we might not believe in the Talmud.

Hope that answers your skepticism.

Actually there is much in the NT which contradicts the Torah...

1) Jesus is G-d
2) Trinity
3) Jesus is Moshiach
4) Abrogation of the Oral Law
5) Understanding of Good Vs Evil {Satan vs Devil, Original Sin, etc.}
6) Praying to Jesus instead of praying to Hashem.
7) Images {i.e. cross w/dead deity}
NT Seeks to replace Torah
9) Requiring a human sacrifice to atone for sin {He died for their sins...}

And there are many other differences...

PS: we can get along as long as the Christian members don't expect us to believe that  stuff..

I have news for you, Muman.
No one expects you to believe 'that stuff'.  You are Jewish. 
I don't see any evidence that the Gentile members are attempting to convert you, or Mo, to Christianity.

What is the point of this thread?  Is it an attempt to drive a wedge between the members of the forum?

P.S. I don't accept your disclaimer.  Your words are often very offensive, when it comes to Christians, and I believe they are meant to be.  No big deal.  It's just the way you feel.  Stick with it.

Well the wedge is toxic and in my opinion it has already taken its Toll. The guest numbers have not been that great and many of our gentile membership have had all they can take and have moved on. What is the point of animosity like this. Proselytizing is not allowed and the rule is strictly enforced as well it should be. Kahane forum had a one sided membership it had it's 10 or 15 posts a day and was one of the most boring forums on the web. Half of the posts were complaints about the gentile membership here at JTF. Well... we all saw how that puppy ended up. Anyway our forum is full of great people and its headed by one of the best leaders I know. Needles to say this Gentile was here on day one and  is not going to let one or two chronic complainers spoil what we are trying to do here. Speak your peace and post Torah Verse from morning to night Muman. I read most of them and am learning more and more every day.