General Category > General Discussion
Haredims and Kahanists ?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote ---- Many of them are Anti-Zionist
--- End quote ---
Many but not all. So what? Are you a zionist? And if so, are you in Israel? If you are not in Israel, you are not really living out any actual zionism. So what difference would it make anyway? But like I said, not all of them are anti-zionist. Not even the majority. The majority are so-called "non-zionist." And of course some are zionistic. Why can't you choose to be what you are?
--- Quote ---- I can't live my life not having any fun
--- End quote ---
What is "fun" that you can't have in your life if you were haredi? Do you define "fun" as eating a cheeseburger or breaking some halacha? Or is it something else? I'm curious to know why you think "fun" is forbidden in haredi society, but first I must know what you define as 'fun.'
--- Quote ---- Heredis aren't really stylish
--- End quote ---
That may be, but 1. who says you have to dress like them, and 2. that says nothing about whether or not their beliefs are true or not.
--- Quote ---- I'm an individualist so I don't want to be following whatever a Rabbi says
--- End quote ---
What's an individualist? Please define that. You don't have to 'do whatever a rabbi says.' Only if you ask a halachic shaila. Otherwise, you can take advice or not take advice, ask for it or not ask for it. It's always good to seek advice from a wise person whether you end up taking it or not. I'm sure you do do that for your big decisions, only instead of a rabbi, you call the person "friend" or "mom" or whatever else.
--- Quote ---- They don't pay taxes or serve in the Israeli military
--- End quote ---
That's true for some but not all. So why can't you just be yourself? If you want to pay taxes pay them and you want to serve, serve. This is mostly shtuyot, and not the real essence of being "haredi" or a religious Jew. Even if some people think it is.
--- Quote ---- I'm a secular person
- I like the ladies
--- End quote ---
What does it mean that you "like the ladies?" Does this mean that you have illicit relations with multiple females out of wedlock? If so, the problem is not that you can't be haredi, your problem is that you are unable to be JEWISH! There is no strain of Jewish religion that encourages this behavior, not even your local Deform rabbi.
The One and Only Mo:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on December 06, 2009, 04:13:45 PM ---
--- Quote ---- Many of them are Anti-Zionist
--- End quote ---
Many but not all. So what? Are you a zionist? And if so, are you in Israel? If you are not in Israel, you are not really living out any actual zionism. So what difference would it make anyway? But like I said, not all of them are anti-zionist. Not even the majority. The majority are so-called "non-zionist." And of course some are zionistic. Why can't you choose to be what you are?
--- Quote ---- I can't live my life not having any fun
--- End quote ---
What is "fun" that you can't have in your life if you were haredi? Do you define "fun" as eating a cheeseburger or breaking some halacha? Or is it something else? I'm curious to know why you think "fun" is forbidden in haredi society, but first I must know what you define as 'fun.'
--- Quote ---- Heredis aren't really stylish
--- End quote ---
That may be, but 1. who says you have to dress like them, and 2. that says nothing about whether or not their beliefs are true or not.
--- Quote ---- I'm an individualist so I don't want to be following whatever a Rabbi says
--- End quote ---
What's an individualist? Please define that. You don't have to 'do whatever a rabbi says.' Only if you ask a halachic shaila. Otherwise, you can take advice or not take advice, ask for it or not ask for it. It's always good to seek advice from a wise person whether you end up taking it or not. I'm sure you do do that for your big decisions, only instead of a rabbi, you call the person "friend" or "mom" or whatever else.
--- Quote ---- They don't pay taxes or serve in the Israeli military
--- End quote ---
That's true for some but not all. So why can't you just be yourself? If you want to pay taxes pay them and you want to serve, serve. This is mostly shtuyot, and not the real essence of being "haredi" or a religious Jew. Even if some people think it is.
--- Quote ---- I'm a secular person
- I like the ladies
--- End quote ---
What does it mean that you "like the ladies?" Does this mean that you have illicit relations with multiple females out of wedlock? If so, the problem is not that you can't be haredi, your problem is that you are unable to be JEWISH! There is no strain of Jewish religion that encourages this behavior, not even your local Deform rabbi.
--- End quote ---
pwned
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: FreedomFighter08 on December 05, 2009, 09:47:11 PM --- I'm still going to hang out with girls and not say "Oh I'm sorry but I'm not allowed to talk to girls unless I'm marrying them".
--- End quote ---
You can talk to a girl without marrying her. You are forbidden to touch her or engage in sexual behavior with her without marrying her. If you have a problem with this, your problem is not with haredim, but with God. Take it up with Him?
--- Quote ---Why is this whole discussion turned to the reason why I wouldn't want to be ultra Orthodox?
--- End quote ---
Because you made a post that said:
"One of the fourty one reasons why I can't be a cheredi."
And then another one that said "It was a joke. I could probably think of 284 reasons though. I can't be separated from the opposite sex though. I'd probably go insane living my life in a sausage fest."
And then a third post where you proceeded to list your "reasons"
Look, nobody is saying you have to be "haredi" but it seems to me that your problem is with Judaism more than it is with any particular strain of haredism or the general haredi world.
Anyway, are you even Jewish? If not, this entire convo may have been pointless....
The One and Only Mo:
--- Quote from: Mo2388 on December 05, 2009, 09:58:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: FreedomFighter08 on December 05, 2009, 09:47:11 PM ---You would love to lie your life separated with society? I don't like the whole reputation about Haredis as well. What's the point of this? I don't want to be Haredi. I can control myself as well but I'm still going to hang out with girls and not say "Oh I'm sorry but I'm not allowed to talk to girls unless I'm marrying them". They really sound like Jewish monks. They can do what they do but it's not for me. Why is this whole discussion turned to the reason why I wouldn't want to be ultra Orthodox?
--- End quote ---
It's not you, it's those people in your boat who are brainwashed by secular society/assimilation into becoming modern to the point of believing that there are doctrines of Judaism that are being dictated and are pointless and everybody who lives by them are miserable. It's hard for anyone to change, especially people raised in a certain way, but you must know that they are truly happy. You think you are happy with the physical/secular pleasures of life, which is common in today's society, but you have to understand that Judaism is based mostly on the World to Come and how to attain it using this world. If we lived our lives for ONLY this world, we would be worthless in the world to come. But like I said, nobody can expect somebody in your shoes to change. Just understand that Orthodox Jews believe in much more than the animal/physical temptations of this world .
--- End quote ---
re-read before you go on the defensive.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Mo2388 on December 06, 2009, 04:08:02 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on December 06, 2009, 03:52:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: Christian Zionist on December 05, 2009, 05:21:58 PM ---I heard that the Heredim has little knowledge of the Tanach and seldom read it. Is that true?
Also another question: Do they participate in Israel's compulsory military services?
--- End quote ---
Chareidi women know it very well, in most cases better than Chareidi men. Because Charedi men's education is more focused on Talmud, while the women learn more on the Torah portion and more in Tanach. But the men do know those things as well (obviously the Torah portion because it is a mitzvah to read it several times with commentary each week). Maybe they are not as well versed in Tanach, that is likely true. But the Dati Leumi communities incorporated Tanach learning more into their yeshiva system so they are stronger there if less capable in Talmud relative to Charedim. But this is only speaking in generalities. There will always be exceptions to these general rules, there will be certain people who excel in all of these subjects and can become leaders of communities due to their expertise.
--- End quote ---
There isn't Talmud learning without AT LEAST a somewhat strong background in written law.
--- End quote ---
Written Law, yes. Tanach, not so much.
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