General Category > General Discussion
Haredims and Kahanists ?
wonga66:
Another 100% goy with exaggerated clip-on peyos: Frenchman Louis de Funes
muman613:
--- Quote from: 18chai on December 30, 2009, 02:29:09 AM ---
--- Quote from: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on December 27, 2009, 11:38:32 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on December 15, 2009, 10:06:46 AM ---
--- Quote from: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on December 15, 2009, 09:11:18 AM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on December 06, 2009, 08:25:41 AM ---It is important to understand that there is a whole spectrum of religious variates in Israel. Charedism itself is a large various section on the spectrum.
--- End quote ---
i really hope their numbers grow, but i read somewhere here mention that Charedim men cannot interact with women? does that mean they have to live a celibate life? THen its really difficult for their numbers to grow.
--- End quote ---
They are strict about interacting with women that are not family, again to various levels according to their affiliation. But when it comes to marrying and producing children the Charedim are the Jewish champions.
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i find nothing wrong in that, and i also read that liberal Jews are protesting against this. Let me tell you... In India 70% of the schools/colleges have segregated seating arrangements for boys and girls. While 90% of public transport services in India too have segregated seating arrangements. Maybe this is because of Hindu culture/ethics. But, we never felt it restricts our freedom or that it is too strict.
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Its not as simple as you think. Did you know that in the bet hamikdash (Solomons temple) men and women were not segregated. Its not about ethics. In Hamadan it was unheard of for a man and his wife to be separated in social functions like weddings yet, many charadi do this. I understand the topic of the "sausage fest" , yet I do agree we should not be animals. But if you think about it, if one is married, he will be with his wife (or should be if they like each other lol) If they are single, all the more reason for segregation not to be implemented so one can find his soul mate. Segregation for me personally is more for modesty such as bathrooms, changing rooms etc, not for being separated from your wife during dinner at a wedding.
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Men and women did not dance together, even in the times of the Torah. You realize at the song of the sea that Miriam danced with the women... But aside from that, the only time that there should be separate seating is during davening, with a kosher mehitza.
I think if you look at the Halacha, and what we learn in the Shulchan Uruch {Code of Jewish law} you will discover that there is something wrong with even an unmarried man having unpure thoughts about an immodest woman.
I know that the seperation issue is a divisive one... But I do understand that there is danger in what we look at, as we are tempted by our eyes and our hearts, another reason that we should wear our tzit-tzits out so that we should see them and remember.
http://mobile.chabad.org/m/article_cdo/aid/444101
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But Why the Mechitzah?
There remains one burning question: If woman is the essence of prayer and song, why is she silent? Where is her creativity and inspiration? Where is her song? Fine, she won't be part of the protocol management. But why can't her voice and presence be an inspiration in the shul?
Things weren't always this way. In the tabernacle and in the First Temple, there was no separation between men and women. Only after matters got out of hand in the Second Temple, was the community forced to create a balcony for women above, while men stayed below. Perhaps, in the messianic era, when we return to our former spiritual status and more, we will return to the original format.
However, as human nature stands today, the reasoning of the sages of the Talmud is still very apparent: Men mingling with women, or listening to a woman's voice -- especially a woman that they know and can see -- are not necessarily carried to spiritual heights, but unfortunately often in the opposite direction. Women don't seem to understand this -- they seem to have very high opinions of us. But if you ask men, and if they're honest with you, they'll admit that they would not be able to pray with proper concentration in a situation where they can see and hear the fairer sex. (But this is a man speaking. Why not read this intriguing woman's view of how the mechitzah looks from her side?
There is a deeper perspective to all this: This is galut. Exile. The Shechinah is in captivity, not in her place. She is ignored and despised. And she is quiet there. But in the world-yet-to-come, the messianic era that we are poised to enter, then we will hear, "Once again in the cities of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of joy and the voice of rejoicing, the voice of the groom and the voice of the bride."7
The Shechinah will sing once again.8
--- End quote ---
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: HEBREWHONOR on December 29, 2009, 07:56:19 PM ---wonga66:
"Rabbi Kahane always said that "the Haredim are irrelevant!". And shame to tell, this is basically true! "
rabbi kahane never said this , and when this was raised at another forum (by i asume , you ?) lenny goldberg came and approved this is a lie .
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Interesting. I had assumed that if the quote was true he was speaking of the haredi political parties, which in that case it is absolutely true. They are on the govt payroll and are given hush money, and that makes them irrelevant where they would otherwise be important.
--- Quote ---"Witness the 2005 Hitnatkut: apart from a handful of Lubavitchers, not one Haredi took part in the demonstrations against the dastardly Gaza Deportation of their fellow Jews. "
the haredim arranged a huge prayer&demonstration on the wailing wall
--- End quote ---
To this ridiculous statement I will only quote Jacob Gur, a former commander of the Irgun, who puts it so aptly on his website:
Quote: "Rallies, demonstrations, whining, conferences, and raising funds, are not the way to depose the present pseudo democratic government of Israel, which leads the State of Israel in harm’s way. This government caves in to Arab thugs in the Land of Israel, and to “allies” who reek with petroleum.
It’s a government of pariahs, from left to right, who inflicted the Oslo Shoah upon us, and banished the Children of Israel from the Land of Israel. They are the lineage of those who caved in to the evil British regime in the 1940s, and delivered our freedom fighters to the British hangman. They shall be remembered in shame and everlasting contempt! "
That cannot be stressed enough in my opinion.
--- Quote ---"There were no calls at all by Haredi leaders, politicians, rebbes, ravs or roshei yeshivahs to demonstrate."
not true at all , like i said , they arranged mass prayer-protest , and all politicians of the charedi parties didn't voted for that plan
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This is a complete lie. United Torah Judaism/Degel HaTorah was offered 690 million Israeli shekels to vote in favor of this plan and they did so. Agudath Yisrael also supported it openly. Btw, UTJ only received about 200 or so million of those 690 they were promised. But they know where the bread is buttered, either way. And they did vote for it.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: 18chai on December 30, 2009, 02:29:09 AM --- If they are single, all the more reason for segregation not to be implemented so one can find his soul mate. Segregation for me personally is more for modesty such as bathrooms, changing rooms etc, not for being separated from your wife during dinner at a wedding.
--- End quote ---
I agree with you here and there are huge poskim who agreed with you as well, who encouraged mixed seating at weddings so that people could find potential shidduchim that way, and also big gedolim who sat with their own wives at weddings at a table with other people.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Muman who said anything about dancing?
I don't see that anywhere until you brought it up. Mixed dancing is Vadae (Certainly) assur (forbidden).
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