Ask JTF is ready, baruch Hashem (12/07)

[The One and Only Mo]

What we need to do is find some Jews who are undecided and we can influence through our dedication to the cause. I think that a person who is in touch with Hashem will develop a kind of charisma which causes a mans face to glow. I have been told my face glows and there are times I can feel how I am influencing people around me.

Please don't fight between ourselves. We are not hellenists, we are the remnants who will bring Moshiach. It is Channukah time and let us learn the NATIONALISTIC message of Channukah and not the watered down psuedo-xmas holiday which the average American celibrates.

Yes, the Maccabees are our role models... But let us not take the sword to our brothers, let us take the light which we have and let others see with it. I hope that we can bring about the changes we dream and pray for in the next secular year.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                           בס"ד   

But let us not take the sword to our brothers,

For now.

[Rubystars]

     You know just like me and everyboy your "love" is interestant.  I don't treat you like my enemies, should I hide what I know about Christianity?

I don't feel upset by what you believe about it but a lot of people will have limited patience for it being rubbed in their faces. I know and understand that Jews think of Christians as idol worshippers, but I don't particularly like being told that on a daily basis, multiple times a day. I already knew about it so seeing it sometimes doesn't particularly get to me but seeing it all the time could get annoying quickly and new members might not like being accused of that kind of stuff when they join here with good will.

It's ok for people to know that but why start arguments and accusations over it? There are things that are disagreed with on both sides but you don't see the Christians on here ripping into what they disagree with about Jewish belief.

I mean look at it from a practical perspective. Most Christian people are never going to give up their beliefs and you can have us as friends or as enemies. We're all in agreement here that missionizing is not allowed so that shouldn't even be an issue. If someone tries to do it then we can deal with it as it comes up and put a stop to it on the forum.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                        בס"ד

     You know just like me and everyboy your "love" is interestant.  I don't treat you like my enemies, should I hide what I know about Christianity?

I don't feel upset by what you believe about it but a lot of people will have limited patience for it being rubbed in their faces. I know and understand that Jews think of Christians as idol worshippers, but I don't particularly like being told that on a daily basis, multiple times a day. I already knew about it so seeing it sometimes doesn't particularly get to me but seeing it all the time could get annoying quickly and new members might not like being accused of that kind of stuff when they join here with good will.

It's ok for people to know that but why start arguments and accusations over it? There are things that are disagreed with on both sides but you don't see the Christians on here ripping into what they disagree with about Jewish belief.

I mean look at it from a practical perspective. Most Christian people are never going to give up their beliefs and you can have us as friends or as enemies. We're all in agreement here that missionizing is not allowed so that shouldn't even be an issue. If someone tries to do it then we can deal with it as it comes up and put a stop to it on the forum.

Talk honestly. I want a basic answer: if there weren't Obama/Commies/Islam/Croats/whatever factors, would you have joined JTF?

[The One and Only Mo]

                                                        בס"ד

     You know just like me and everyboy your "love" is interestant.  I don't treat you like my enemies, should I hide what I know about Christianity?

I don't feel upset by what you believe about it but a lot of people will have limited patience for it being rubbed in their faces. I know and understand that Jews think of Christians as idol worshippers, but I don't particularly like being told that on a daily basis, multiple times a day. I already knew about it so seeing it sometimes doesn't particularly get to me but seeing it all the time could get annoying quickly and new members might not like being accused of that kind of stuff when they join here with good will.

It's ok for people to know that but why start arguments and accusations over it? There are things that are disagreed with on both sides but you don't see the Christians on here ripping into what they disagree with about Jewish belief.

I mean look at it from a practical perspective. Most Christian people are never going to give up their beliefs and you can have us as friends or as enemies. We're all in agreement here that missionizing is not allowed so that shouldn't even be an issue. If someone tries to do it then we can deal with it as it comes up and put a stop to it on the forum.

Talk honestly. I want a basic answer: if there weren't Obama/Commies/Islam/Croats/whatever factors, would you have joined JTF?

Good question, except I don't know if there would have been a JTF or even a JDL if there were no problems in the world.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                             בס"ד

                                                        בס"ד

     You know just like me and everyboy your "love" is interestant.  I don't treat you like my enemies, should I hide what I know about Christianity?

I don't feel upset by what you believe about it but a lot of people will have limited patience for it being rubbed in their faces. I know and understand that Jews think of Christians as idol worshippers, but I don't particularly like being told that on a daily basis, multiple times a day. I already knew about it so seeing it sometimes doesn't particularly get to me but seeing it all the time could get annoying quickly and new members might not like being accused of that kind of stuff when they join here with good will.

It's ok for people to know that but why start arguments and accusations over it? There are things that are disagreed with on both sides but you don't see the Christians on here ripping into what they disagree with about Jewish belief.

I mean look at it from a practical perspective. Most Christian people are never going to give up their beliefs and you can have us as friends or as enemies. We're all in agreement here that missionizing is not allowed so that shouldn't even be an issue. If someone tries to do it then we can deal with it as it comes up and put a stop to it on the forum.

Talk honestly. I want a basic answer: if there weren't Obama/Commies/Islam/Croats/whatever factors, would you have joined JTF?

Good question, except I don't know if there would have been a JTF or even a JDL if there were no problems in the world.

If you were a real Teshuva Jew you would have known that there have been worse than Muslims/Arabs/Blacks, they are not the first test HaShem tests us with.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                   בס"ד

But let us not take the sword to our brothers,

For now.

[The One and Only Mo]

                                                             בס"ד

                                                        בס"ד

     You know just like me and everyboy your "love" is interestant.  I don't treat you like my enemies, should I hide what I know about Christianity?

I don't feel upset by what you believe about it but a lot of people will have limited patience for it being rubbed in their faces. I know and understand that Jews think of Christians as idol worshippers, but I don't particularly like being told that on a daily basis, multiple times a day. I already knew about it so seeing it sometimes doesn't particularly get to me but seeing it all the time could get annoying quickly and new members might not like being accused of that kind of stuff when they join here with good will.

It's ok for people to know that but why start arguments and accusations over it? There are things that are disagreed with on both sides but you don't see the Christians on here ripping into what they disagree with about Jewish belief.

I mean look at it from a practical perspective. Most Christian people are never going to give up their beliefs and you can have us as friends or as enemies. We're all in agreement here that missionizing is not allowed so that shouldn't even be an issue. If someone tries to do it then we can deal with it as it comes up and put a stop to it on the forum.

Talk honestly. I want a basic answer: if there weren't Obama/Commies/Islam/Croats/whatever factors, would you have joined JTF?

Good question, except I don't know if there would have been a JTF or even a JDL if there were no problems in the world.

If you were a real Teshuva Jew you would have known that there have been worse than Muslims/Arabs/Blacks, they are not the first test HaShem tests us with.

Since the creation of the State of Israel, who else have been as problematic? And you said "whatever factors" so that means any problems.

[muman613]

Ron,

Essau and his descendants definately have treated us worse than the current enemy of our people, the descendants of Ishmael. But as I explained before there are some descendants of Essau which have a mission to help Israel, and we should not close them out. As you have said, there are righteous gentiles in this world. And some of them may be born Christian and as a result they feel a kinship and identify as Christian. I do not hold them responsible for that, and I believe that many of them may be descended from Jews who were forced to convert many years ago... Those Jewish neshamahs are dormant and they may want to re-establish their link with Hashem, the Holy One blessed is he.

I would try to be more understanding, but not compromise your principles. As I say there is a difference between tolerance and acceptance... You can tolerate that a person does wrong, but you don't have to accept it. By setting a good example the Jewish people actually bring Hashem into this world, we are his representative...

Please consider my words, and consult your Rabbi for more Chochma in this area..

Shalom,

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                             בס"ד

                                                             בס"ד

                                                        בס"ד

     You know just like me and everyboy your "love" is interestant.  I don't treat you like my enemies, should I hide what I know about Christianity?

I don't feel upset by what you believe about it but a lot of people will have limited patience for it being rubbed in their faces. I know and understand that Jews think of Christians as idol worshippers, but I don't particularly like being told that on a daily basis, multiple times a day. I already knew about it so seeing it sometimes doesn't particularly get to me but seeing it all the time could get annoying quickly and new members might not like being accused of that kind of stuff when they join here with good will.

It's ok for people to know that but why start arguments and accusations over it? There are things that are disagreed with on both sides but you don't see the Christians on here ripping into what they disagree with about Jewish belief.

I mean look at it from a practical perspective. Most Christian people are never going to give up their beliefs and you can have us as friends or as enemies. We're all in agreement here that missionizing is not allowed so that shouldn't even be an issue. If someone tries to do it then we can deal with it as it comes up and put a stop to it on the forum.

Talk honestly. I want a basic answer: if there weren't Obama/Commies/Islam/Croats/whatever factors, would you have joined JTF?

Good question, except I don't know if there would have been a JTF or even a JDL if there were no problems in the world.

If you were a real Teshuva Jew you would have known that there have been worse than Muslims/Arabs/Blacks, they are not the first test HaShem tests us with.

Since the creation of the State of Israel, who else have been as problematic? And you said "whatever factors" so that means any problems.

Don't twist my words. When I say "whatever factors" --- I mean whatever factors that are relavent nowadays. But when I speak of tests --- I mean that HaShem could have tested us with a nation like the Emori.

[Rubystars]

Talk honestly. I want a basic answer: if there weren't Obama/Commies/Islam/Croats/whatever factors, would you have joined JTF?

I can't speak for anyone else I can only speak for myself. I was always raised to admire Jewish people from the time I was a small child. So I could say that if there was still such an organization that welcomed Christian members that yes I would join it.

A lot of people weren't brought up this way but came to realize how essential Israel is later. I didn't agree with Chaim on everything when I joined but on almost every issue I've realized he was right and I was wrong. So maybe even if someone joins for those other reasons then Chaim will be able to persuade them through his videos, Ask JTF, and text to truly support Israel.

[The One and Only Mo]

                                                            בס"ד

                                                             בס"ד

                                                        בס"ד

     You know just like me and everyboy your "love" is interestant.  I don't treat you like my enemies, should I hide what I know about Christianity?

I don't feel upset by what you believe about it but a lot of people will have limited patience for it being rubbed in their faces. I know and understand that Jews think of Christians as idol worshippers, but I don't particularly like being told that on a daily basis, multiple times a day. I already knew about it so seeing it sometimes doesn't particularly get to me but seeing it all the time could get annoying quickly and new members might not like being accused of that kind of stuff when they join here with good will.

It's ok for people to know that but why start arguments and accusations over it? There are things that are disagreed with on both sides but you don't see the Christians on here ripping into what they disagree with about Jewish belief.

I mean look at it from a practical perspective. Most Christian people are never going to give up their beliefs and you can have us as friends or as enemies. We're all in agreement here that missionizing is not allowed so that shouldn't even be an issue. If someone tries to do it then we can deal with it as it comes up and put a stop to it on the forum.

Talk honestly. I want a basic answer: if there weren't Obama/Commies/Islam/Croats/whatever factors, would you have joined JTF?

Good question, except I don't know if there would have been a JTF or even a JDL if there were no problems in the world.

If you were a real Teshuva Jew you would have known that there have been worse than Muslims/Arabs/Blacks, they are not the first test HaShem tests us with.

Since the creation of the State of Israel, who else have been as problematic? And you said "whatever factors" so that means any problems.

Don't twist my words. When I say "whatever factors" --- I mean whatever factors that are relavent nowadays. But when I speak of tests --- I mean that HaShem could have tested us with a nation like the Emori.

Factors relevant nowadays. So you're asking her if there were no factors relevant nowadays, would she be in JTF? I innocently said if there were no factors relevant nowadays there might not be a JTF or JDL. Rav Kahane fought against factors that were relevant to him, and he created the JDL. If there was nothing bad, would he have created JDL?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                בס"ד

Ron,

Essau and his descendants definately have treated us worse than the current enemy of our people, the descendants of Ishmael. But as I explained before there are some descendants of Essau which have a mission to help Israel, and we should not close them out. As you have said, there are righteous gentiles in this world. And some of them may be born Christian and as a result they feel a kinship and identify as Christian. I do not hold them responsible for that, and I believe that many of them may be descended from Jews who were forced to convert many years ago... Those Jewish neshamahs are dormant and they may want to re-establish their link with Hashem, the Holy One blessed is he.

I would try to be more understanding, but not compromise your principles. As I say there is a difference between tolerance and acceptance... You can tolerate that a person does wrong, but you don't have to accept it. By setting a good example the Jewish people actually bring Hashem into this world, we are his representative...

Please consider my words, and consult your Rabbi for more Chochma in this area..

Shalom,

You already know what the definition of righteous Gentile is.

But as I explained before there are some descendants of Essau which have a mission to help Israel, and we should not close them out.

Never heard of that. What I have heard is that Edom (Magog) would be the last one HaShem would test us with.
Christianity ans Islam are worse theologically than usual Avodah Zara --- they're "מחדשי דת".
Being a Light onto the Nations doesn't mean compromsing on Torah, never.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                בס"ד

                                                            בס"ד

                                                             בס"ד

                                                        בס"ד

     You know just like me and everyboy your "love" is interestant.  I don't treat you like my enemies, should I hide what I know about Christianity?

I don't feel upset by what you believe about it but a lot of people will have limited patience for it being rubbed in their faces. I know and understand that Jews think of Christians as idol worshippers, but I don't particularly like being told that on a daily basis, multiple times a day. I already knew about it so seeing it sometimes doesn't particularly get to me but seeing it all the time could get annoying quickly and new members might not like being accused of that kind of stuff when they join here with good will.

It's ok for people to know that but why start arguments and accusations over it? There are things that are disagreed with on both sides but you don't see the Christians on here ripping into what they disagree with about Jewish belief.

I mean look at it from a practical perspective. Most Christian people are never going to give up their beliefs and you can have us as friends or as enemies. We're all in agreement here that missionizing is not allowed so that shouldn't even be an issue. If someone tries to do it then we can deal with it as it comes up and put a stop to it on the forum.

Talk honestly. I want a basic answer: if there weren't Obama/Commies/Islam/Croats/whatever factors, would you have joined JTF?

Good question, except I don't know if there would have been a JTF or even a JDL if there were no problems in the world.

If you were a real Teshuva Jew you would have known that there have been worse than Muslims/Arabs/Blacks, they are not the first test HaShem tests us with.

Since the creation of the State of Israel, who else have been as problematic? And you said "whatever factors" so that means any problems.

Don't twist my words. When I say "whatever factors" --- I mean whatever factors that are relavent nowadays. But when I speak of tests --- I mean that HaShem could have tested us with a nation like the Emori.

Factors relevant nowadays. So you're asking her if there were no factors relevant nowadays, would she be in JTF? I innocently said if there were no factors relevant nowadays there might not be a JTF or JDL. Rav Kahane fought against factors that were relevant to him, and he created the JDL. If there was nothing bad, would he have created JDL?

You choose to escape my point.
HaShem could have placed Islam/Blacks/Arabs with other, worse, stronger, more evil Nations, that would not have been enemies to Christians, Would she join JTF (or whatever replacor for it), or let's ask it otherwise --- if Blacks, Arabs and Muslims, were only hostile to Jews, would she have joined?

[~Hanna~]

Myself, also....

Especially while studying the Tenach all those years.....

Talk honestly. I want a basic answer: if there weren't Obama/Commies/Islam/Croats/whatever factors, would you have joined JTF?

I can't speak for anyone else I can only speak for myself. I was always raised to admire Jewish people from the time I was a small child. So I could say that if there was still such an organization that welcomed Christian members that yes I would join it.

A lot of people weren't brought up this way but came to realize how essential Israel is later. I didn't agree with Chaim on everything when I joined but on almost every issue I've realized he was right and I was wrong. So maybe even if someone joins for those other reasons then Chaim will be able to persuade them through his videos, Ask JTF, and text to truly support Israel.

[~Hanna~]

Hi Ron: What would your mother say right now?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                   בס"ד

Talk honestly. I want a basic answer: if there weren't Obama/Commies/Islam/Croats/whatever factors, would you have joined JTF?

I can't speak for anyone else I can only speak for myself. I was always raised to admire Jewish people from the time I was a small child. So I could say that if there was still such an organization that welcomed Christian members that yes I would join it.

A lot of people weren't brought up this way but came to realize how essential Israel is later. I didn't agree with Chaim on everything when I joined but on almost every issue I've realized he was right and I was wrong. So maybe even if someone joins for those other reasons then Chaim will be able to persuade them through his videos, Ask JTF, and text to truly support Israel.

It's interesting how your post contradict the thelogy I had when I was a Christian and your theology. You understand that believing you is the same as believing Mas'ab Yousouf?

Also, one more question: if the Arabs sorrounding Israel were Christians, and all lands to need to free were lands currently controlled by Christians, would you support us liberating it?

[Spiraling Leopard]

     You know just like me and everyboy your "love" is interestant.  I don't treat you like my enemies, should I hide what I know about Christianity?

I don't feel upset by what you believe about it but a lot of people will have limited patience for it being rubbed in their faces. I know and understand that Jews think of Christians as idol worshippers, but I don't particularly like being told that on a daily basis, multiple times a day. I already knew about it so seeing it sometimes doesn't particularly get to me but seeing it all the time could get annoying quickly and new members might not like being accused of that kind of stuff when they join here with good will.

It's ok for people to know that but why start arguments and accusations over it? There are things that are disagreed with on both sides but you don't see the Christians on here ripping into what they disagree with about Jewish belief.

I mean look at it from a practical perspective. Most Christian people are never going to give up their beliefs and you can have us as friends or as enemies. We're all in agreement here that missionizing is not allowed so that shouldn't even be an issue. If someone tries to do it then we can deal with it as it comes up and put a stop to it on the forum.

The only reason why I have kept my cool with ron is because I respect Chaim.
Ron does not respect Chaim for what he is, he does not respect Chaims authority and decisions and he does not share Chaims ideals. He destroys coöperation and so destroys what Chaim tries to build. I think he just wants to be a fancy Jew hiding behind scriptures when he can't win with simple logic like Chaim does. I consider him a 5th columnist on this forum.
Many mistaken ignorance for passionateness.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                             בס"ד

Hi Ron: What would your mother say right now?

"Go find a wife!" or somethin I guess.

[muman613]

                                                               בס"ד

Ron,

Essau and his descendants definately have treated us worse than the current enemy of our people, the descendants of Ishmael. But as I explained before there are some descendants of Essau which have a mission to help Israel, and we should not close them out. As you have said, there are righteous gentiles in this world. And some of them may be born Christian and as a result they feel a kinship and identify as Christian. I do not hold them responsible for that, and I believe that many of them may be descended from Jews who were forced to convert many years ago... Those Jewish neshamahs are dormant and they may want to re-establish their link with Hashem, the Holy One blessed is he.

I would try to be more understanding, but not compromise your principles. As I say there is a difference between tolerance and acceptance... You can tolerate that a person does wrong, but you don't have to accept it. By setting a good example the Jewish people actually bring Hashem into this world, we are his representative...

Please consider my words, and consult your Rabbi for more Chochma in this area..

Shalom,

You already know what the definition of righteous Gentile is.

But as I explained before there are some descendants of Essau which have a mission to help Israel, and we should not close them out.

Never heard of that. What I have heard is that Edom (Magog) would be the last one HaShem would test us with.
Christianity ans Islam are worse theologically than usual Avodah Zara --- they're "מחדשי דת".
Being a Light onto the Nations doesn't mean compromsing on Torah, never.

Ron,

Have you read Naviim? Especially Zecharyah?

This section is especially interesting:

http://www.613.org/smiles/trei-asar/zecharyah.htm

Chapter 2, Verse14  - Chapter 4, Verse14

Verse 14:

רני ושמחי בת ציון כי הנני בא ושכנתי בתוכך נאום ה'

רני ושמחי בת ציון... ושכנתי בתוכך

1.    In verses 12-13 Hashem promised that he will punish anyone who harms the Jewish people. He then goes on in this verse to tell the Jewish people to be happy about the salvation that they will experience, when the Shechinah (Divine Presence) will come to dwell amongst them. (Malbim)

 

2.    Verses 14-17 are a prophecy for the era of the Mashiach, since we know that the things prophesied here did not come true during the Second Temple era; starting from chapter 3, though, the prophecies relate to the immediate future. (Radak)

Verse 15:

ונלוו גויים רבים אל ה' ביום ההוא והיו לי לעם ושכנתי בתוכך וידעת כי ה' צבקות שלחני אלייך

ונלוו גויים רבים אל ה' ביום ההוא והיו לי לעם

1.    Many non-Jews will believe in Hashem and connect themselves with him. (Metzudat David)

 

2.    Many non-Jews will convert to Judaism. (Malbim)

ושכנתי בתוכך

The Shechinah will dwell only with the Jewish people, even though non-Jews will also believe in Hashem. (Metzudat David)

וידעת כי ה' צבקות שלחני אלייך

The people will know that the good being sent from Heaven is mainly for them; they will receive more of it than the non-Jews. (Metzudat David)

Verse 16:

ונחל ה' את יהודה חלקו על אדמת הקודש ובחר עוד בירושלים

ונחל ה' את יהודה חלקו על אדמת הקודש

1.    The land of Yehudah will be Hashem’s part, and the Jewish people will not be exiled from it anymore. (Metzudat David)

 

2.    If we say that this prophecy is for the immediate future, this verse came true, in that only the tribe of Yehudah returned from the exile. (Radak)

ובחר עוד בירושלים

The Shechinah will again dwell in Jerusalem. (Metzudat David)

Verse 17:

הס כל בשר מפני ה' כי נעור ממעון קדשו

הס כל בשר מפני ה'

All the nations will be frightened into silence. (Metzudat David)

כי נעור ממעון קדשו

The nations will be quiet, because they will see Hashem rising to punish them, as if he has just woken up. (Metzudat David)

 

Chapter 3, Verse 1:

ויראני את יהושע הכהן הגדול עומד לפני מלאך ה' והשטן עומד על ימינו לשטנו

ויראני

1.         This was a prophetic vision. (Metzudat David)

 

2.         This was a vision seen at night. (Ibn Ezra)

והשטן עומד על ימינו לשטנו

1.    Yehoshua, the High Priest was standing trial for his deeds, and Satan was prosecuting him for not rebuking his sons when they married non-Jewish women (see Ezra 10:18). (Metzudat David)

 

2.    “Satan” in Hebrew can mean “someone who impedes” – this “Satan”
 is hinting at Sanvalat and his cohorts, who were interfering with the process of the building of the Temple (see Nechemyah 4:1-3). (Radak)

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                               בס"ד

     You know just like me and everyboy your "love" is interestant.  I don't treat you like my enemies, should I hide what I know about Christianity?

I don't feel upset by what you believe about it but a lot of people will have limited patience for it being rubbed in their faces. I know and understand that Jews think of Christians as idol worshippers, but I don't particularly like being told that on a daily basis, multiple times a day. I already knew about it so seeing it sometimes doesn't particularly get to me but seeing it all the time could get annoying quickly and new members might not like being accused of that kind of stuff when they join here with good will.

It's ok for people to know that but why start arguments and accusations over it? There are things that are disagreed with on both sides but you don't see the Christians on here ripping into what they disagree with about Jewish belief.

I mean look at it from a practical perspective. Most Christian people are never going to give up their beliefs and you can have us as friends or as enemies. We're all in agreement here that missionizing is not allowed so that shouldn't even be an issue. If someone tries to do it then we can deal with it as it comes up and put a stop to it on the forum.

The only reason why I have kept my cool with ron is because I respect Chaim.
Ron does not respect Chaim for what he is, he does not respect Chaims authority and decisions and he does not share Chaims ideals. He destroys coöperation and so destroys what Chaim tries to build. I think he just wants to be a fancy Jew hiding behind scriptures when he can't win with simple logic like Chaim does. I consider him a 5th columnist on this forum.
Many mistaken ignorance for passionateness.

And how do you respect Chaim if you're bashing me? How do you respect Chaim if you think he'll go to hell for being part of your religion?
I don't care about co-operation and Chaim knows my opinion about this. Only reason I joined the English forum is because I care about the Jews staying in the Galut.
It's ok Robert, I don't really consider you human so it's ok. Yup, I'm a "fancy Jew" (hello Adolf), glad you understood that I have respect for myself and not hide between so-called alliance with interestants like you.

[Rubystars]

It's interesting how your post contradict the thelogy I had when I was a Christian and your theology. You understand that believing you is the same as believing Mas'ab Yousouf?

I don't know what doctrines you were taught to believe and I don't think that's a very good topic for us to get into if we're going to avoid the whole topic of missionizing anyway.

I can tell you that I never met a Christian who didn't like Jews until I was an adult and I was shocked to know there even were such people who still called themselves Christian.

Maybe that was ignorant of me but to be honest I had never thought that anything like that was possible. The first time a Jewish person told me that there were Christian anti-Semites I got angry with him for saying that and we got into an argument about it. I had never met a Christian that didn't like Jews so the idea of a Christian anti-Semite was like telling me there was a green stop sign or a red go light.

Now of course I realize how serious that topic is and how evil some people are and were that still took the label of Christians. I understand why you are wary and I actually think you SHOULD be careful and not automatically trust people. There are a lot of evil people in the world who claim all kinds of religions.

Maybe I was insulated from all that because I grew up in Texas and most Christians that I know of here like Israel and Jews.

Also, one more question: if the Arabs sorrounding Israel were Christians, and all lands to need to free were lands currently controlled by Christians, would you support us liberating it?

There are Arab so-called Christians now and most of them are terrible people who I don't really think follow Christian morals. I think as long as they are hateful anti-Semites they should be treated just like the Muslims.

[Spiraling Leopard]

                                                               
And how do you respect Chaim if you're bashing me? How do you respect Chaim if you think he'll go to hell for being part of your religion?
I don't care about co-operation and Chaim knows my opinion about this. Only reason I joined the English forum is because I care about the Jews staying in the Galut.
It's ok Robert, I don't really consider you human so it's ok. Yup, I'm a "fancy Jew" (hello Adolf), glad you understood that I have respect for myself and not hide between so-called alliance with interestants like you.

I'm bashing you? Explain, I criticized your behaviour and backed it up with reasoning for everyone to understand and you have yet to come up with a single counter argument. It was you who started bashing me since you obviously was all out of reasoning. read your own posts again; I'm sure you'll understand.

How do I think Chaim will go to hell? Please explain...

It's ok ron, I know you're too vain to understand a single point I make.

I respect Chaim for what he is and what he does. You don't know what respect is.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                             בס"ד

                                                               בס"ד

Ron,

Essau and his descendants definately have treated us worse than the current enemy of our people, the descendants of Ishmael. But as I explained before there are some descendants of Essau which have a mission to help Israel, and we should not close them out. As you have said, there are righteous gentiles in this world. And some of them may be born Christian and as a result they feel a kinship and identify as Christian. I do not hold them responsible for that, and I believe that many of them may be descended from Jews who were forced to convert many years ago... Those Jewish neshamahs are dormant and they may want to re-establish their link with Hashem, the Holy One blessed is he.

I would try to be more understanding, but not compromise your principles. As I say there is a difference between tolerance and acceptance... You can tolerate that a person does wrong, but you don't have to accept it. By setting a good example the Jewish people actually bring Hashem into this world, we are his representative...

Please consider my words, and consult your Rabbi for more Chochma in this area..

Shalom,

You already know what the definition of righteous Gentile is.

But as I explained before there are some descendants of Essau which have a mission to help Israel, and we should not close them out.

Never heard of that. What I have heard is that Edom (Magog) would be the last one HaShem would test us with.
Christianity ans Islam are worse theologically than usual Avodah Zara --- they're "מחדשי דת".
Being a Light onto the Nations doesn't mean compromsing on Torah, never.

Ron,

Have you read Naviim? Especially Zecharyah?

This section is especially interesting:

http://www.613.org/smiles/trei-asar/zecharyah.htm

Chapter 2, Verse14  - Chapter 4, Verse14

Verse 14:

רני ושמחי בת ציון כי הנני בא ושכנתי בתוכך נאום ה'

רני ושמחי בת ציון... ושכנתי בתוכך

1.    In verses 12-13 Hashem promised that he will punish anyone who harms the Jewish people. He then goes on in this verse to tell the Jewish people to be happy about the salvation that they will experience, when the Shechinah (Divine Presence) will come to dwell amongst them. (Malbim)

 

2.    Verses 14-17 are a prophecy for the era of the Mashiach, since we know that the things prophesied here did not come true during the Second Temple era; starting from chapter 3, though, the prophecies relate to the immediate future. (Radak)

Verse 15:

ונלוו גויים רבים אל ה' ביום ההוא והיו לי לעם ושכנתי בתוכך וידעת כי ה' צבקות שלחני אלייך

ונלוו גויים רבים אל ה' ביום ההוא והיו לי לעם

1.    Many non-Jews will believe in Hashem and connect themselves with him. (Metzudat David)

 

2.    Many non-Jews will convert to Judaism. (Malbim)

ושכנתי בתוכך

The Shechinah will dwell only with the Jewish people, even though non-Jews will also believe in Hashem. (Metzudat David)

וידעת כי ה' צבקות שלחני אלייך

The people will know that the good being sent from Heaven is mainly for them; they will receive more of it than the non-Jews. (Metzudat David)

Verse 16:

ונחל ה' את יהודה חלקו על אדמת הקודש ובחר עוד בירושלים

ונחל ה' את יהודה חלקו על אדמת הקודש

1.    The land of Yehudah will be Hashem’s part, and the Jewish people will not be exiled from it anymore. (Metzudat David)

 

2.    If we say that this prophecy is for the immediate future, this verse came true, in that only the tribe of Yehudah returned from the exile. (Radak)

ובחר עוד בירושלים

The Shechinah will again dwell in Jerusalem. (Metzudat David)

Verse 17:

הס כל בשר מפני ה' כי נעור ממעון קדשו

הס כל בשר מפני ה'

All the nations will be frightened into silence. (Metzudat David)

כי נעור ממעון קדשו

The nations will be quiet, because they will see Hashem rising to punish them, as if he has just woken up. (Metzudat David)

 

Chapter 3, Verse 1:

ויראני את יהושע הכהן הגדול עומד לפני מלאך ה' והשטן עומד על ימינו לשטנו

ויראני

1.         This was a prophetic vision. (Metzudat David)

 

2.         This was a vision seen at night. (Ibn Ezra)

והשטן עומד על ימינו לשטנו

1.    Yehoshua, the High Priest was standing trial for his deeds, and Satan was prosecuting him for not rebuking his sons when they married non-Jewish women (see Ezra 10:18). (Metzudat David)

 

2.    “Satan” in Hebrew can mean “someone who impedes” – this “Satan”
 is hinting at Sanvalat and his cohorts, who were interfering with the process of the building of the Temple (see Nechemyah 4:1-3). (Radak)

Yes, I had, too bad you didn't really read Ovadia 1:21:


וְעָלוּ מוֹשִׁעִים בְּהַר צִיּוֹן לִשְׁפֹּט אֶת הַר עֵשָׂו וְהָיְתָה לַיהוָה הַמְּלוּכָה

Rashi:

"ועלו" - שרי ישראל מושיעים בהר ציון

"לשפוט את הר עשו" - ליפרע מהר עשו אשר עשו לישראל לשפוט יושטיציי"ר בלע"ז

"הר עשו" - י"ת כרכא רבא דעשו

"והיתה לה' המלוכה" - לימדך שאין מלכותו שלימה עד שיפרע מעמלק

 Also I don't see why many of what you posted is relavant, and about the Gentiles who would want to convert,
1.) The Christians don't want to convert.
2.) They'd have the chance to do that till the arrival of the Meshiach.

[muman613]

That Ovadia was last weeks Haftorah portion, wasn't it?

You see my attending Shabbat Torah services allows me to learn the entire Tanach...

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/TorahReading_cdo/AID/15554/section/haftorah

15. For the day of the Lord over all the nations is close; as you have done shall be done to you; your recompense shall be returned upon your head.
16. For, as you drank on My Holy Mount, shall all the nations drink constantly, and they shall drink and be stunned, and they shall be as though they were not.
17. And on Mount Zion there shall be a remnant, and it shall be holy, and the house of Jacob shall inherit those who inherited them.
18. And the house of Jacob shall be fire and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau shall become stubble, and they shall ignite them and consume them, and the house of Esau shall have no survivors, for the Lord has spoken.
19. And [the inhabitants of] the southland shall inherit the mountain of Esau, and [the inhabitants of] the plain, the Philistines, and they shall inherit the field of Ephraim and the field of Samaria, and Benjamin [with the inhabitants of] Gilead.
20. And this exiled host of the children of Israel who are [with] the Canaanites as far as Zarephath and the exile of Jerusalem which is in Sepharad shall inherit the cities of the southland.
21. And saviors shall ascend Mt. Zion to judge the mountain of Esau, and the Lord shall have the kingdom.