I support... the moderate Muslims

[AsheDina]

Well, you support them, go to NYC and support them. Go to EU and support them, go to Africa and support them.   I am SICK of them.  They can go to the devil for all I care, and take their stupid 'religion' of DEATH with them.

[Muck DeFuslims]

                                                          בס"ד

Please pick up the Quran and see for yourself.

I have read all the Jihadi verses, but things other, pacifist verses negate those.

True Muslims only believe in war as self-defense. The early conquest-driven Muslims? Those guys were radical, my friend.

Notice, one verse says "fight them as they fight you."

See Verse 5:32

Muslim don't believe any of this nonesense cause it's not relavent.
There are two main versions of the Qur'an - Suraht il-Madinah and Suraht il-Mahckia. Suraht il-Mackia is the more "peaceful one" --- that was written down by Muhammad's slave when he was in Mecca, and wanted support from the Jews and the local Arab Pagans, that's why he wanted to copy Judaism so much and he took various ideas from Judaism (Monotheism - "All-aht" is the name of the Babylonian Mythological idol "of moon", just like the Greeks had Zeus and the Romans had Jupiter, and he had many "children" in the Babylonian Pantheon, so he summarized it up by choosing "Allah" [an Arabized version of "All-aht"] and "his daughters" "il-Uzzah" and "Il-Mannaht", and he saw the Jews didn't like it either, so he changed it to Monotheism).

The Jews didn't like him and didn't accept his false religion - and so did most of the local Arabs. He wanted money, power, booty, etc and they didn't want to give it to him. That's why he went to Il-Yathrahb (il-Madinah) and when he got enough power, he wrote the more violent version of the Qur'an --- Suraht il-Madinah.

Now there's a major basic "rule" in the Qur'an. It's called "Wa'Nasach Wa'Il-Mansuch" - "the invalid and the irralevnt". When the verses are changed and edited, the ones they are placing are irrelavant according to the "Muslim law".
That means that the verses you posted, yes, the same il-Taqqiyah verses the Saudi government makes all of its efforts to spread it in non-Muslim countries, are irrelavant for the Muslims.

RBM is absolutely correct about this. There are some 'moderate' verses (i.e. 'no compulsion in religion') in Mohamhead's earlier ramblings.

However, any Islamic scholar would agree thay are abrogated by the post-Mecca revisions and contradictions found in the Aholy Koran.

One of the most common forms of Moozie taqqiya is to cite these mellow passages in the Aholy Koran as proof that Islam is a 'religion of peace', knowing full well that they are abrogated by the later, post-Mecca text.

One other addendum I'd like to add to this thread:

Anyone using the moniker 'Mr Patriot 1776' invokes the memory and spirit of the founding fathers of America.

Someone using a screen name like that should be aware of how Jefferson, Franklin and Adams dealt with Islamic terrorists.

It's a little known fact that America's first war (after the Revolutionary War) was with Islamic terrorists known as the Barbary Coast Pirates.

In fact, the U.S. Navy was built up expressly to combat these Islamic terrorists who for centuries preyed on European shipping in the Mediterranean, pillaging cargo, taking crews as hostages, torturing them, and demanding ransom.

Unlike the Europeans, Jefferson decided he wasn't going to tolerate this Islamic terror and blackmail. No, he didn't look for 'moderate' Muslims for support or try to appease these Islamic terrorists. He sent the Navy to the 'shores of Tripoli' and kicked some Moozie tail.

Over 200 years later, we're still combating Islamic jihadists, except now we've got a Moozie President and a population of brainwashed fools looking for the mythical moderate Moozie.

Our founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

[Dr. Dan]

exactly to why there is no such thing as a moderate muslim

                                                      בס"ד

If a muslim believes in everything jtf and kahanism believes in then I wouldn't mind that muslim. I'm sure he would eat a ham sandwich on a regular basis.

Americanpatriot, come on. Please  WTF?!  Wake up and smell the coffee. Turkey supports gaza. That's not moderate. If you can't see that then you need to be debrainwashed

That Muslim would be slaughtered and considered "Ibn Warraq".

[The One and Only Mo]

exactly to why there is no such thing as a moderate muslim

                                                      בס"ד

If a muslim believes in everything jtf and kahanism believes in then I wouldn't mind that muslim. I'm sure he would eat a ham sandwich on a regular basis.

Americanpatriot, come on. Please  WTF?!  Wake up and smell the coffee. Turkey supports gaza. That's not moderate. If you can't see that then you need to be debrainwashed

That Muslim would be slaughtered and considered "Ibn Warraq".

or a fart that doesn't smell.

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

                                                                  בס"ד

There are no "moderate" and "extermist" Muslims, there are only dumb and smart Muslims. The "moderate" (smart) Muslims have murdered way more many Jews than the "extremist" Muslims did.

                                                                  בס"ד

There are no "moderate" and "extermist" Muslims, there are only dumb and smart Muslims. The "moderate" (smart) Muslims have murdered way more many Jews than the "extremist" Muslims did.

That's actually a brilliant way to look at it.

Extremist muslim = muslim who blows himself up and takes as many infidels as he can with him
Moderate muslim = muslim who finances and supports extremist muslims

A good muslim, is a dead muslim!

[Muck DeFuslims]

A good muslim, is a dead muslim!

Maybe. Even the dead ones take up space.

[The One and Only Mo]

                                                                  בס"ד

There are no "moderate" and "extermist" Muslims, there are only dumb and smart Muslims. The "moderate" (smart) Muslims have murdered way more many Jews than the "extremist" Muslims did.

                                                                  בס"ד

There are no "moderate" and "extermist" Muslims, there are only dumb and smart Muslims. The "moderate" (smart) Muslims have murdered way more many Jews than the "extremist" Muslims did.

That's actually a brilliant way to look at it.

Extremist muslim = muslim who blows himself up and takes as many infidels as he can with him
Moderate muslim = muslim who finances and supports extremist muslims

A good muslim, is a dead muslim!

[Dr. Dan]

those exist

exactly to why there is no such thing as a moderate muslim

                                                      בס"ד

If a muslim believes in everything jtf and kahanism believes in then I wouldn't mind that muslim. I'm sure he would eat a ham sandwich on a regular basis.

Americanpatriot, come on. Please  WTF?!  Wake up and smell the coffee. Turkey supports gaza. That's not moderate. If you can't see that then you need to be debrainwashed

That Muslim would be slaughtered and considered "Ibn Warraq".

or a fart that doesn't smell.

[The One and Only Mo]

those exist

exactly to why there is no such thing as a moderate muslim

                                                      בס"ד

If a muslim believes in everything jtf and kahanism believes in then I wouldn't mind that muslim. I'm sure he would eat a ham sandwich on a regular basis.

Americanpatriot, come on. Please  WTF?!  Wake up and smell the coffee. Turkey supports gaza. That's not moderate. If you can't see that then you need to be debrainwashed

That Muslim would be slaughtered and considered "Ibn Warraq".

or a fart that doesn't smell.

Incorrect.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatulence

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I've brought this up before, but it is worthy of attention once again... especially with the forum filling up with Ron Paul supporters and Muslims, I thought it would be fair to share my two cents also. Please don't ban me; I am honored to be a part of the JTF and hope to see you prove how much conservatives value free speech and open dialogue.

I joined the JTF desperate to find a political organization to support to help us radically step up the War on Terrorist Groups, in order to win it. To strike out Iran's, even China and N Korea's, nuke facilities. I also wanted to solve illegal immigration and the moral and cultural deterioration America is experiencing. The Constitution Party seemed cool, but their vice was not supporting the WoTG and being anti-semitic conspiracy nuts, for the most part.

So I joined the JTF. But, I found that the JTF's views... didn't exactly match my carefully formulated views...

From a moderate Muslim regarding Turkey:
"Turkey is one of the countries that depend and shows to the world the real islam about not the fake. G-d bless turkey and all of those that hate the terrorists and the Racists"

From a moderate Muslim regarding the Iraqi Military Tribute:
"woow thanx dude for this video ^_^ deleted the insurgents "

And I'm supposed to believe the demagogic lie that "you can't be a moderate Muslim"?

The sad fact is that those so-called "Moderates" you quoted here talking about what the "real" Islam is, are objectively wrong in thinking that is the real Islam.   Le'havdil, it is like Deform Judaism claiming to be the real Judaism.   It simply isn't.   

These people who hate terrorism and hate "radical" Islam, in reality they hate REAL Islam.   It is great if they start a reform movement to destroy/undermine actual Islam and make it peaceful, but I haven't seen that kind of boldness yet.   But comments like that are at least good.   It is good they make those comments, and a person like that is righteous because he sees the evil inherent in Islam.   But when he claims that "real" Islam is Islam minus all the Jew-hatred, terrorism, and jihad, he is simply delusional.  It is called wishful thinking.   That is only "real" Islam in his own mind, but not according to the Islamic sources, the Islamic authorities, Islamic scholars, and the Islamic imams.   So on  the one hand, a person who hates Islamic terror and calls himself a Muslim (or moderate Muslim), I would never want to harm such a person.   At the same time, he is inaccurate in calling himself a Muslim, and any understanding of Muslim lawcode can easily determine that he is not actually following Islam, despite calling himself Muslim and thinking that whatever he likes in his own mind can be termed 'real' Islam.   A person can't just draw up a set of personal opinions and then say that "true religion" is what he likes and false religion or distorted religion is anything he dislikes.   There is an objective reality of what true Islam is and stands for.   Just as there is for other religions.   Reformers should at least be honest about their intention to reform and change the religion into something else.

[Confederate Kahanist]

I think what you mean by moderate Muslims is Muslims that aren't religious. 

[Dr. Dan]

I"m sorry, I've had loud ones that didn't smell...at least to me or others around me...

those exist

exactly to why there is no such thing as a moderate muslim

                                                      בס"ד

If a muslim believes in everything jtf and kahanism believes in then I wouldn't mind that muslim. I'm sure he would eat a ham sandwich on a regular basis.

Americanpatriot, come on. Please  WTF?!  Wake up and smell the coffee. Turkey supports gaza. That's not moderate. If you can't see that then you need to be debrainwashed

That Muslim would be slaughtered and considered "Ibn Warraq".

or a fart that doesn't smell.

Incorrect.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatulence

[GoIsraelGo!]

Mr Patriot, islam has infected every muslim alive.

The so called moderate muslims are liars and for a good reason, they believe that everyone should convert to islam, so of course they will lie and claim they do not agree with everything the other muslims do.

There is only one koran, and every muslim alive worships mohamed.....mohamed was the mass murderer/pedophile who created the evil koran, so anyone that reads this trash ( koran )
is subjected to being fooled and or being brainwashed.

What I cannot understand is why some people ( you for example ) delude themselves into believing that some muslims are peaceful when the evidence ( islam and it's actions ) is right before your eyes.

[MrPatriot1776]

By the way, since you seem interested in dialogue, what percentage of Muslims do you believe are 'moderates' ? Just curious.

I can't say... but where I live, in California, 99% of them love America, pay taxes, and even drink beer.

[MrPatriot1776]

Islam is Muhamadism, a violent, subversive, expansionist  political, legal and spiritual ideology. No one who calls himself muslim is a friend of mine. If he is welcome in mecca, we don't want him here.

What a great example in Turkey you bring. What a loyal and reliable ally it is.... NOT. Even most of the secular turks are savages in western suits. Just ask them something more specific like say... the Armenian genocide, the invasion of Cyprus, "Palestine", and see what answer they give you.

Also I want you to give an example of one moderate muslim party, one moderate muslim leader, can you name just one example and show it to be true ?

Possibly Ahmad Shah Massoud, leader of the Afghan Northern Alliance. Here is his 1998 address to the American people. It seems pretty moderate to me.

http://www.afghan-web.com/documents/let-masood.html

BTW, the Northern Alliance has never fired a single bullet at the Coalition. That is the Taliban that does that.

[GoIsraelGo!]

99 percent of all the muslims here in the US would love to see the United States become islamic and live under sharia law.

Muslims love islam and nothing else.

[MrPatriot1776]

                                                          בס"ד

Please pick up the Quran and see for yourself.

I have read all the Jihadi verses, but things other, pacifist verses negate those.

True Muslims only believe in war as self-defense. The early conquest-driven Muslims? Those guys were radical, my friend.

Notice, one verse says "fight them as they fight you."

See Verse 5:32

Muslim don't believe any of this nonesense cause it's not relavent.
There are two main versions of the Qur'an - Suraht il-Madinah and Suraht il-Mahckia. Suraht il-Mackia is the more "peaceful one" --- that was written down by Muhammad's slave when he was in Mecca, and wanted support from the Jews and the local Arab Pagans, that's why he wanted to copy Judaism so much and he took various ideas from Judaism (Monotheism - "All-aht" is the name of the Babylonian Mythological idol "of moon", just like the Greeks had Zeus and the Romans had Jupiter, and he had many "children" in the Babylonian Pantheon, so he summarized it up by choosing "Allah" [an Arabized version of "All-aht"] and "his daughters" "il-Uzzah" and "Il-Mannaht", and he saw the Jews didn't like it either, so he changed it to Monotheism).

The Jews didn't like him and didn't accept his false religion - and so did most of the local Arabs. He wanted money, power, booty, etc and they didn't want to give it to him. That's why he went to Il-Yathrahb (il-Madinah) and when he got enough power, he wrote the more violent version of the Qur'an --- Suraht il-Madinah.

Now there's a major basic "rule" in the Qur'an. It's called "Wa'Nasach Wa'Il-Mansuch" - "the invalid and the irralevnt". When the verses are changed and edited, the ones they are placing are irrelavant according to the "Muslim law".
That means that the verses you posted, yes, the same il-Taqqiyah verses the Saudi government makes all of its efforts to spread it in non-Muslim countries, are irrelavant for the Muslims.

RBM is absolutely correct about this. There are some 'moderate' verses (i.e. 'no compulsion in religion') in Mohamhead's earlier ramblings.

However, any Islamic scholar would agree thay are abrogated by the post-Mecca revisions and contradictions found in the Aholy Koran.

One of the most common forms of Moozie taqqiya is to cite these mellow passages in the Aholy Koran as proof that Islam is a 'religion of peace', knowing full well that they are abrogated by the later, post-Mecca text.

One other addendum I'd like to add to this thread:

Anyone using the moniker 'Mr Patriot 1776' invokes the memory and spirit of the founding fathers of America.

Someone using a screen name like that should be aware of how Jefferson, Franklin and Adams dealt with Islamic terrorists.

It's a little known fact that America's first war (after the Revolutionary War) was with Islamic terrorists known as the Barbary Coast Pirates.

In fact, the U.S. Navy was built up expressly to combat these Islamic terrorists who for centuries preyed on European shipping in the Mediterranean, pillaging cargo, taking crews as hostages, torturing them, and demanding ransom.

Unlike the Europeans, Jefferson decided he wasn't going to tolerate this Islamic terror and blackmail. No, he didn't look for 'moderate' Muslims for support or try to appease these Islamic terrorists. He sent the Navy to the 'shores of Tripoli' and kicked some Moozie tail.

Over 200 years later, we're still combating Islamic jihadists, except now we've got a Moozie President and a population of brainwashed fools looking for the mythical moderate Moozie.

Our founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

I'll consider that

[MrPatriot1776]

I think what you mean by moderate Muslims is Muslims that aren't religious. 

Yes. I mean secular and pro-West and pro-Israel Muslims.

[Zelhar]

Islam is Muhamadism, a violent, subversive, expansionist  political, legal and spiritual ideology. No one who calls himself muslim is a friend of mine. If he is welcome in mecca, we don't want him here.

What a great example in Turkey you bring. What a loyal and reliable ally it is.... NOT. Even most of the secular turks are savages in western suits. Just ask them something more specific like say... the Armenian genocide, the invasion of Cyprus, "Palestine", and see what answer they give you.

Also I want you to give an example of one moderate muslim party, one moderate muslim leader, can you name just one example and show it to be true ?

Possibly Ahmad Shah Massoud, leader of the Afghan Northern Alliance. Here is his 1998 address to the American people. It seems pretty moderate to me.

http://www.afghan-web.com/documents/let-masood.html

BTW, the Northern Alliance has never fired a single bullet at the Coalition. That is the Taliban that does that.

You know why Ahmad Shah Massoud was a "good" muslim (sort of), because he was too busy fighting other muslims. The northern alliance, to which he belonged and which is now in power thanks to American and allied soldiers fighting for them, are ungrateful corrupt incompetent regime. And how do they return a favor ? by exporting heroine and constantly trying to limit the effectiveness of the American forces at the cost of American casualties.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I think what you mean by moderate Muslims is Muslims that aren't religious. 

Yes. I mean secular and pro-West and pro-Israel Muslims.

Then you're not making sense.   If they are pro-West and pro-Israel, they are only Muslims in name, but not in reality.   If they are secular, obviously true Islam is not secular.  So they are not really Muslim and not really following Islam if they are secular.   Even if they call themselves that.   That's like a guy who says he's a "non practicing _____"   If you're non practicing, you're not really _____.  (whatever it is).

[FreedomFighter08]

I can't say... but where I live, in California, 99% of them love America, pay taxes, and even drink beer.

Muslims are absolutely not allowed to touch alcohol. These aren't Muslims, they were just raised in Muslim families, and they know that the Koran is just a bunch of bull.

[Muck DeFuslims]

By the way, since you seem interested in dialogue, what percentage of Muslims do you believe are 'moderates' ? Just curious.

I can't say... but where I live, in California, 99% of them love America, pay taxes, and even drink beer.

Thanks for responding.

I thought you might have abandoned the thread.

So you're of the opinion that 99% of Muslims residing in California love America, pay taxes and drink beer. I don't know how you came to this conclusion (I guess you mean the Muslims that you know), and I suppose that would make them 'moderate' by your standards.

OK, I'll accept that for the sake of dialogue (even though I don't believe it's accurate).

I'm pretty certain you don't believe 99% of Muslims around the world feel the same way about America (never mind Israel) or drink beer.

I too know some Muslims that profess to love America, they probably pay their taxes, and they've been known to have an alcoholic beverage. They don't even seem to hate Jews.

They're what I consider the 'cream of the crap'. And that's because by these narrow standards, they indeed could be considered 'moderate' -- but every single one of them was anti-Israel, and harbored some resentment against America for supposedly being supportive of Israel. (I even had one of these beer drinking moderates with a blonde girlfriend tell me he thought Khomeini was better than the Shah.)

But that's a tangential observation I've personally made and not really the crux of the matter.

No, the real issue is what percentage of Muslims worldwide could honestly be considered 'moderate' and what percentage could honestly be considered 'radical'.

I answer this question in a typical Jewish fashion, by asking another question.

And that question would be: If an election was held worldwide amongst Muslims today, asking them to choose a supreme leader of the Muslim world, which individual would be most likely to win ?

I think Osama Bin Laden would win hands down.

Now of course that's just my subjective opinion and I could never prove it, but I guarantee you, at the very least,  Osama would be a very strong candidate.

That should give us a clue as to what percentage of Muslims worldwide could be considered 'moderate' even by the narrowest definition.

Of course, you're entitled to disagree with this (and I'm pretty sure you will), but I submit that in reality we've twisted and distorted the definition of moderate Muslim versus radical Muslim to meet our Western non-Mohammedan standards.

If by 'moderate' we mean mainstream or typical, then I make the case that Osama is a moderate and that Muslims that don't believe in employing jihad to achieve the goal of a totalitarian Islamic Caliphate are the 'radicals'.

I won't make the mistake of being arrogant enough to think I understand Islam better than Osama or the millions of Muslims that adore him.

That being said, I encourage you to continue to look for 'moderate' Muslims to assist you in the 'war on terror'. Good luck.

[briann]

Please pick up the Quran and see for yourself.

I have read all the Jihadi verses, but things other, pacifist verses negate those.

True Muslims only believe in war as self-defense. The early conquest-driven Muslims? Those guys were radical, my friend.

Notice, one verse says "fight them as they fight you."

See Verse 5:32

This is VERY VERY disturbing.   I am not going to debate you, as your words speak for themselves. You need to leave this forum, and you are NOT WELCOME. 

[cjd]

Please pick up the Quran and see for yourself.

I have read all the Jihadi verses, but things other, pacifist verses negate those.

True Muslims only believe in war as self-defense. The early conquest-driven Muslims? Those guys were radical, my friend.

Notice, one verse says "fight them as they fight you."

See Verse 5:32

You simply have to be kidding!! Brian is absolutely correct you should leave JTF Forum.

[GoIsraelGo!]

I honestly do not understand how Mr. Patriot can join the forum and then claim that most muslims are peaceful and love America. It is contradictory to our knowing the absolute truth about islam - the CULT of DEATH and DESTRUCTION.



                                                    Shalom - Dox