Author Topic: Baal teshuva?  (Read 8300 times)

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Offline White Israelite

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Baal teshuva?
« on: April 10, 2014, 02:58:34 AM »
I want to make Baal teshuva with judaism and return to being a Jew, I have not lived the life I should and while I don't want to talk about it on the forum, I want to do what I can to make things right and make my father proud, I haven't been honest with myself or others and I've slowly been working to fix these issues, what would I need to do to make things right? Are there sins that cannot be forgiven? I really like the jtf and am glad to have been here a number of years but I really feel spiritually I been lacking and have only had a sense of Jewish identity from more of a secular approach, thanks.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2014, 03:04:40 AM »
Before I share some information, the best and worse things about teshuva: Best. You can make teshuva for anything, though the more serious sins you will be given suffering you can endure, which cleans your soul. This is preferable to experience in this life.

Worst: If you have the chance to make teshuva and you don't, eventually it will get harder, until it's almost impossible, since certain people have the merit; those G-d would like to see around living as they do now forever.

This Rabbi is great for it, I strongly recommend his lectures on baal teshuva, since he is one:

The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2014, 03:20:36 AM »
The top thing in making teshuva is kosher food. It's impossible to be really holy if your blood and body is made from unholy things.

Don't try to rush everything. Start by saying Shema, one quick prayer, before you go to sleep. From this, keep learning, and everything will come, including showers of blessings.

You aren't going to be a saint right the next second, but so long as you remember you're not doing the mitzvot to become an idol, but as an opportunity to connect with Hashem, and through that, you will see the merit to do more, and become a tzadik, B"H.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2014, 11:24:18 AM »
  Whatever and however you do things, take them a step at a time and the most important thing is persistence and learning. Start with the basics at first. Shabbat and Kashrut for example. When the holidays come (such as Passover that is coming up very soon) keep the laws of that Hag (Holiday) and afterwards prepare for the next holidays before it starts as well.
  With keeping Shabbat, spend some time learning as well. Either go to shul and hear the Dvrei Torah. Or get a book or 2 and start learning some things. It isn't hard especially when things are in order.
 After Shabbat (+ Yom Tov) and Kashrut (and wearing Tefillin if your a male which I assume you are) slowly work your way up at your own pace. Don't get involved in Humrot (extra stringencies) and things that will tire you out completely and are not needed.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline kyel

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2014, 11:32:02 AM »
Shabbat is very important. The punishment for breaking Shabbat is severe.


Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2014, 02:56:57 PM »
Shabbat is very important. The punishment for breaking Shabbat is severe.

And the reward is eternal.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 03:38:28 PM »
Mazel Tov White Israelite, I am so happy to hear the news.

As others have suggested do not attempt to jump in with both feet at first. Take 'baby steps' by doing Mitzvot which are 'easy' and yet they bring you to do other mitzvot. For me it was wearing Tzit-Tzit every day, which brought me to keep Kosher better, to keep Shabbat better, and of course to set aside time EVERY DAY to study a little Torah.

I have joined many mailing lists which send me daily thoughts about the portion of the week, and articles written by Rabbis about the writings of the sage. I immerse myself in the thoughts and deeds of the sages, and I find that my 'bad traits' end up fading away.

If you take on too much too fast you run the risk of getting 'burned out' and also of sliding back into the bad traits you tried to get away from.

Find a good Rabbi (as the sages say 'Make yourself a Rabbi' in Pirkei Avot) and spend Shabbat and Holidays with him. When you involve yourself with the doings of a Jewish community the people around you will help you keep the commandments.

Yasher Koach to you...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 08:41:55 PM »
I want to make Baal teshuva with judaism and return to being a Jew, I have not lived the life I should and while I don't want to talk about it on the forum, I want to do what I can to make things right and make my father proud, I haven't been honest with myself or others and I've slowly been working to fix these issues, what would I need to do to make things right? Are there sins that cannot be forgiven? I really like the jtf and am glad to have been here a number of years but I really feel spiritually I been lacking and have only had a sense of Jewish identity from more of a secular approach, thanks.

Wow!  The fact that you want to do that is great!  It can't happen overnight, but I would suggest starting with some basics.  Try to acquire a pair of tefillin if you can and speak with an orthodox rabbi who can show you how to apply them and what bracha to make, each morning.  You could start with that and saying the shema every day, once in the morning and once at night (no tefillin at night).  Start to eat only kosher foods, and see if anyone nearby observes the Jewish laws of Shabbat and see if you can join them to learn more about it.  Three things, tefillin, shabbat, and kashrut are the basic essentials to get started and that comes from Rabbi Rosenberg's teachings who started several yeshivot for baalei teshuva.

Beyond that try to learn some Torah (also a very important mitzvah) and over time you will know more and do more.  There are some great resources in the torah and jewish idea section of the forum to help you find some sources to get started on with basic study.

Yasher koach.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 08:51:20 PM »
I want to make Baal teshuva with judaism and return to being a Jew, I have not lived the life I should and while I don't want to talk about it on the forum, I want to do what I can to make things right and make my father proud, I haven't been honest with myself or others and I've slowly been working to fix these issues, what would I need to do to make things right? Are there sins that cannot be forgiven? I really like the jtf and am glad to have been here a number of years but I really feel spiritually I been lacking and have only had a sense of Jewish identity from more of a secular approach, thanks.
Take the first step, HaShem will guide you. You will know he is with you.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 08:52:09 PM »
I think Tefillin is great but I don't think a person starting out is about to go out and spend the money on a kosher pair without knowing he is going to stick with it. A pair of good Tefillin is usually > $400 ...

http://www.hasofer.com/page.pl?p=tefillin

I found Tzit-tzits much easier to start doing... A pair of tzit-tzits is about $20 and it can be worn easily (either with the fringes tucked in, or dangling out)...

The Shema discusses the Tzit-Tzit in the third pasuk...

37. The Lord spoke to Moses, saying:
38. Speak to the children of Israel and you shall say to them that they shall make for themselves fringes on the corners of their garments, throughout their generations, and they shall affix a thread of sky blue [wool] on the fringe of each corner.
39. This shall be fringes for you, and when you see it, you will remember all the commandments of the Lord to perform them, and you shall not wander after your hearts and after your eyes after which you are going astray.
40. So that you shall remember and perform all My commandments and you shall be holy to your God.
41. I am the Lord, your God, Who took you out of the land of Egypt to be your God; I am the Lord, your God.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 04:03:01 PM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2014, 11:39:10 AM »
I think Tefillin is great but I don't think a person starting out is about to go out and spend the money on a kosher pair without knowing he is going to stick with it. A pair of good Tefillin is usually > $400 ...

http://www.hasofer.com/page.pl?p=tefillin

I found Tzit-tzits much easier to start doing... A pair of tzit-tzits is about $20 and it can be worn easily (either with the fringes tucked in, or dangling out)...

The Shema discusses the Tzit-Tzit in the third pasuk...

37. The Lord spoke to Moses, saying:
38. Speak to the children of Israel and you shall say to them that they shall make for themselves fringes on the corners of their garments, throughout their generations, and they shall affix a thread of sky blue [wool] on the fringe of each corner.
39. This shall be fringes for you, and when you see it, you will remember all the commandments of the Lord to perform them, and you shall not wander after your hearts and after your eyes after which you are going astray.
40. So that you shall remember and perform all My commandments and you shall be holy to your God.
41. I am the Lord, your God, Who took you out of the land of Egypt to be your God; I am the Lord, your God.


The importance of wearing TzitTzits:

I suggest all Jews, regardless of their observance level, go out and buy a few  Tallit Katan (Garment used to wear the fringes) and wear them every day.... It reminds you of your Jewishness, and helps prevent you from going astray...

Incorrect. Will elaborate at later date.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2014, 03:03:08 PM »
Incorrect. Will elaborate at later date.

 Agreed. I will let you do the elaboration first.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2014, 03:09:27 PM »
The reward for tzit-tzits is 40,000 servants forever in the world to come, but the person who said that called it a small mitzvah.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2014, 03:39:29 PM »
The mitzvah of Tzit-Tzits is easy to perform and has incredible reward...

It is easy for someone to say incorrect, and run off... Maybe he or she should provide a reason why they disagree...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2014, 03:47:28 PM »
Thank you for the support, this is really something that's been in my heart for a while, the more I rejected it, the stronger the feeling was. I know that the Torah and of course Hashem are what I have to put my heart and faith into, it's just where to even start, I live in a extremely rural area, so it is difficult but I have been making small changes at a time.

I've been thinking about visiting the chabad house, I talked to them on the phone a few weeks ago and they were very friendly with trying to get me on the right path, I also have been watching a lot of jews for judaism videos which has been wonderful. It sounds like a lot of them have also run into the same issues.

Offline muman613

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2014, 03:52:00 PM »
Thank you for the support, this is really something that's been in my heart for a while, the more I rejected it, the stronger the feeling was. I know that the Torah and of course Hashem are what I have to put my heart and faith into, it's just where to even start, I live in a extremely rural area, so it is difficult but I have been making small changes at a time.

I've been thinking about visiting the chabad house, I talked to them on the phone a few weeks ago and they were very friendly with trying to get me on the right path, I also have been watching a lot of jews for judaism videos which has been wonderful. It sounds like a lot of them have also run into the same issues.

Shalom White Israelite,

It is my suggestion you make contact with your local Chabad Rabbi. I am sure that they will be glad to help you find what you need in order to begin your process of Teshuva. They have helped me immensely.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2014, 04:03:49 PM »
Thank you for the support, this is really something that's been in my heart for a while, the more I rejected it, the stronger the feeling was. I know that the Torah and of course Hashem are what I have to put my heart and faith into, it's just where to even start, I live in a extremely rural area, so it is difficult but I have been making small changes at a time.

I've been thinking about visiting the Chabad house, I talked to them on the phone a few weeks ago and they were very friendly with trying to get me on the right path, I also have been watching a lot of jews for judaism videos which has been wonderful. It sounds like a lot of them have also run into the same issues.

There's a four week "camp" for Baalei teshuva and a FFB section, in the States this June that's only 400$ for the full time, and Chabad will help you financially to do it. I wasn't really down because I'm terrified to go to the States, but it's important to learn what you're doing, so if you'll do it, I'll meet you there, and I'll send info now if you're interested.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2014, 04:08:28 PM »
The mitzvah of Tzit-Tzits is easy to perform and has incredible reward...

It is easy for someone to say incorrect, and run off... Maybe he or she should provide a reason why they disagree...

 The question was the difference between Sissit (katan) and Tefillin and which should be taken upon FIRST.
 I say Tefillin because Tefillin is a HOVA (an obligatory) Misswah , that a person must do, and not doing so is an avera as well. Sissit isn't on the same level. It is only obligatory once someone has a 4 cornered garment on. Not having it on isn't an avera.

  And also when I said by Sissit I was and am referring to the Katan. So if one starts basic, start first with Tefillin and when one purchases it, usually its together with the Tallit Gadol. So a person (a male) puts on a Tallit Gadol and Tefillin, for a few minutes and they fulfill their obligation (at least the minimum in today's world and society at least).

 - Their are other reasons KWRBT will fill in the rest.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2014, 04:34:41 PM »
The question was the difference between Sissit (katan) and Tefillin and which should be taken upon FIRST.
 I say Tefillin because Tefillin is a HOVA (an obligatory) Misswah , that a person must do, and not doing so is an avera as well. Sissit isn't on the same level. It is only obligatory once someone has a 4 cornered garment on. Not having it on isn't an avera.

  And also when I said by Sissit I was and am referring to the Katan. So if one starts basic, start first with Tefillin and when one purchases it, usually its together with the Tallit Gadol. So a person (a male) puts on a Tallit Gadol and Tefillin, for a few minutes and they fulfill their obligation (at least the minimum in today's world and society at least).

 - Their are other reasons KWRBT will fill in the rest.

I was wearing Tzitzits for three years before I got my 1st pair of Tefillin...

I first got the Tallit Gadol (Prayer Shawl with tzitzit) and then stated wearing the Tallit Katan within a year...

While I know that Tefillin is a very important mitzvah, it is a bit overwhelming at the beginning and spending so much money on them could be a hardship.

As most here have been advising, small steps are important... Keeping Shabbat seems so overwhelming at first and full Shabbat observance would be a shock to someone who has not kept it... So many Baal Teshuvas start slowly by learning the melachot, and keeping them as they grow in their observance.

Is this not other peoples experience?
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2014, 04:40:47 PM »
It would be good to read the laws of Teshuva as expounded upon by Rambam...

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/911887/jewish/Teshuvah.htm
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2014, 04:44:18 PM »
Don't many Jews already have Tefillin from the time of their Bar Mitzvah?
 Spending maybe $500 (or even some more) for a good pair of Tefillin that will last them a lifetime (or even more some times if it is made from Cow and is good quality), is a very good investment. AND on top of that a person who has just spent that money will more likely put it on even more because it cost him a good amount. Anyway if it lasts say 100 years (or even 50 years) it comes out to $5 per year, or $10 per year respectively if it cost $500.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2014, 04:55:22 PM »
Don't many Jews already have Tefillin from the time of their Bar Mitzvah?
 Spending maybe $500 (or even some more) for a good pair of Tefillin that will last them a lifetime (or even more some times if it is made from Cow and is good quality), is a very good investment. AND on top of that a person who has just spent that money will more likely put it on even more because it cost him a good amount. Anyway if it lasts say 100 years (or even 50 years) it comes out to $5 per year, or $10 per year respectively if it cost $500.

I was Bar Mitzvahed in a Conservative Shul and they did not get me Tefillin. I remember I was given a Tanach and a Kiddush Cup (which I still have somewhere)...

I understand what you are saying Tag... That the investment should be an impetus to perform the mitzvah... But I am reminded of the times when I was a child and told my mother that I wanted to play a sport, my mother bought all the equipment, and then I decided I wasn't so interested in playing the sport... I suppose because it was not 'my' money that was being spent.

Also remember that every few years a Jew needs to have his Tefillin checked (like the Mezuzah) to make sure that the parchment is still kosher. I had my Tefillin checked a little over a year ago.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2014, 05:16:00 PM »
I never had a bar mitzvah.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2014, 05:19:40 PM »

Also remember that every few years a Jew needs to have his Tefillin checked (like the Mezuzah) to make sure that the parchment is still kosher. I had my Tefillin checked a little over a year ago.

 This is off topic, but in reality one doesn't really need to check the Tefillin often. If one get's a good pair. Get's it checked by someone else to confirm it, they then can have it without checking for a very long time.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Baal teshuva?
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2014, 05:27:37 PM »
I never had a bar mitzvah.

It is never too late... I have heard of people having Bar Mitzvah celebrations late in life.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/713763/jewish/Grandpas-Bar-Mitzvah.htm
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14