JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Husar on January 25, 2008, 09:30:20 AM
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Here's the e-mail she sent to me,
she didn't want to leave, without
giving her reasons.
"Dear JTFer's
I have made a choice to leave the forum for a number of reasons. Many here I care about deeply and that will never change.
But in life, we all walked down different paths to get to the one goal, JTF was just one stop on that journey.
The direction this forum has now heading into is one that I can't take or even bear to be apart of.
I love my country, my people, my culture, and I love who I am.
Remaining on the forum would only cause a rift that could never be mended 22,000 life times.
I protect the memory and spirit of a nation. That is my path and one I must remain on.
I hold no ill will against JTF, as I have said to some in Administration JTF just one of a bigger network of people helping and supporting the Jewish way of life. The work it has done and continues to do is priceless, and should never be stopped.
As my work too is important in ways beyond most people will never know.
My account was hacked in another forum which linked directly to JTF, deleting it was the only way to protect JTF.
The rights of one does not out way the rights of many.
Peace to you all
Farewell."
Thank you Skippy
for all that you've done.
:)
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What were her reasons ? I don't understand, I missed something ?
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Neither do i i'm a bit thick was it because a link she had to Jtf was hacked and she's scared that they could hack into jtf
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Whatever the reasons, we lost a really great member who will be greatly missed :(
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Yes although she's still on myspace
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Why do people just leave? It makes no sense to me. Don't they see how much this movement means to Chaim, that alone is a reason to stay.
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Skippy should come back.
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Skippy should come back.
I second that, she SHOULD come back!
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Skippy is very active on other sites, and she was harassed and hacked by wanabie Cyberjihadist not the first time; when she say I must leave she have serius reasons. Tolerating of Scrabian's insults and conflict over Jap world was not as important.
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Do you think she'll ever come back?
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I hope she comes back. She was true blue.
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I'm sure she will be back, she is a great person.
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I hope she'll come back. O0 I'm sorry for the muSSlim iSSlamic Nazi JihadiSSt for hacking into her account :-\ >:(
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Hope she comes back too. Good member. I'll miss her and her cat. O0
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I hope she returns, this is insane people leaivng like this over these conflicts every now and then. What will they do during a real confrontation? Head for the hills?? If by any given Skippy you are reading this. Do think about it and come back. We want to be a strong movement. If people leave for just about any rift how can we be united. Do I agree on taming these "Jap" Word no of course not. I think the moment we do become p.c. is the moment we will have these uproars. And as far as this movement goes we all must have thicken skins, it is the nature of the beast for this kind of of domain we are in.
So Skippy come back! Put your body armor and lets come a front all of us. We have our enemies who want our blood. Lets think on defeating them not each other.
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:'(
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who will post in my Dr. Dan show now? :'(
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This is absolutely terrible :'(
I still think Skippy is righteous even though she made a decision of her own :'(
G-d willing she'll come back when the time is right and we are under attack like no tomorrow >:(O0
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She was probably not aware of the fact that Scriabin left when she wrote that.
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I don't understand what she means by "protecting JTF" because someone has "hacked her account". She can always make a new user name and password which will be hack-proof, the danger of someone getting access to her account isn't really a reason to leave the forum, it's just a reason to delete her previous account. I feel like she's not being honest with us.
Whatever, it's her choice, I'm sure she has her reasons.
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I don't understand what she means by "protecting JTF" because someone has "hacked her account". She can always make a new user name and password which will be hack-proof, the danger of someone getting access to her account isn't really a reason to leave the forum, it's just a reason to delete her previous account. I feel like she's not being honest with us.
Whatever, it's her choice, I'm sure she has her reasons.
She posted on different site that upset moslems so they hacked her account she was concerned that they would hack here but she took care of it
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sigh. This is terrible. We need you back skippy, but if you don't, i will understand
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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I don't understand what she means by "protecting JTF" because someone has "hacked her account". She can always make a new user name and password which will be hack-proof, the danger of someone getting access to her account isn't really a reason to leave the forum, it's just a reason to delete her previous account. I feel like she's not being honest with us.
Whatever, it's her choice, I'm sure she has her reasons.
You are right its not the full reason, but going through the list of what is negative would not change anything.
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She was probably not aware of the fact that Scriabin left when she wrote that.
I was not aware but does make a huge difference. Ultra and Mord told me the news.
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I wish to thank Husar for what he has done. What I stated in my letter is 100% correct to my feelings I still have.
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I wish to thank Husar for what he has done. What I stated in my letter is 100% correct to my feelings I still have.
you have returned to us whoooooooohooooooooooooooooooo O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
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I wish to thank Husar for what he has done. What I stated in my letter is 100% correct to my feelings I still have.
you have returned to us whoooooooohooooooooooooooooooo O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
In a fashion 8;)
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I wish to thank Husar for what he has done. What I stated in my letter is 100% correct to my feelings I still have.
you have returned to us whoooooooohooooooooooooooooooo O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
In a fashion 8;)
haha
"bring back, og bring back, oh bring back my friii-iiends to me, to me" 8;) :D
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I wish to thank Husar for what he has done. What I stated in my letter is 100% correct to my feelings I still have.
you have returned to us whoooooooohooooooooooooooooooo O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
In a fashion 8;)
haha
"bring back, og bring back, oh bring back my friii-iiends to me, to me" 8;) :D
:::D you dag O0
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who will post in my Dr. Dan show now? :'(
I am not allowed to post in that forum. :P Sorry mate.
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who will post in my Dr. Dan show now? :'(
I am not allowed to post in that forum. :P Sorry mate.
???
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who will post in my Dr. Dan show now? :'(
I am not allowed to post in that forum. :P Sorry mate.
???
Thats right Boere, many things are left unsaid.
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I wish to thank Husar for what he has done. What I stated in my letter is 100% correct to my feelings I still have.
You're warmly welcome, Sister.
;)
You did also worry
when I was about to leave.
:) :) :)
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I knew that sounded familiar... welcome!
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I don't have any respect for this. EVERY ONE of us here has taken crap and toughed it out. I certainly have. I was even BANNED once. I can't have much tolerance or respect for people who flee just because somebody was opposing them. Hello--this is the real world--not everybody is going to like or agree with you.
I am reminded of when Yephora left and everybody was begging to have her come back. I was the only member who stood up and said that a real Kahanist would not have been repulsed by ONE nutty person (she left because of Fruit of thy Loins, who I still and always will maintain was harmless), who did not even actually attack her (she just was offended by what he typed). How would somebody in our movement with skin that thin respond when they face REAL persecution--like abandonment? Getting fired? Torture?
I realize that not all here are Christians, but I do desire to share here a passage from the gospel of Matthew (in the New Testament) that is completely true and that explains this phenomenon at JTF very well:
Matthew 13
The Parable of the Sower
1That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3Then he told them many things in parables, saying: "A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9He who has ears, let him hear."
Chaimfan.
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She was gone for less than a day if at all! I can never understand the motivation behind some of the smoke and mirror routine's some people will go through with new names and leaving and then returning to the forum. WHATS THE POINT? Anyway the way I see it she was never really gone so all this is really nothing more than luction.
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whats the big fuss about. what did she contribute that was that great. i think we should reach out more to jews and judaism or we might as well drop the j from jtf. i really like the support of gentiles. but when they have more power than jews on a jewish forum it is just wrong. i think that unfortunately our cause might be lost if we dont stay to the point( israel) of course. i also commend chaim for reaching out to gentiles but when jews are outnumberd on this forum people will start to think this a christian zionist forum and it might lose its appeal to jews
and also righteous gentiles are not only white. i do not like it when white gentiles on this forum start critizing asians or latinos. the white christians have acted worse towards jews than both of these groups.
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Maybe a strange question?
What is the difference between a Jew and a Gentile?
Are not Gentiles also Jewish by religion? But they are converted to Judaism and are not Jews by origin?
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Maybe a strange question?
What is the difference between a Jew and a Gentile?
Are not Gentiles also Jewish by religion? But they are converted to Judaism and are not Jews by origin?
a gentile is anyone who is not a jew (catholic, muslim, hindu, orthodox,) etc
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whats the big fuss about. what did she contribute that was that great. i think we should reach out more to jews and judaism or we might as well drop the j from jtf. i really like the support of gentiles. but when they have more power than jews on a jewish forum it is just wrong. i think that unfortunately our cause might be lost if we dont stay to the point( israel) of course. i also commend chaim for reaching out to gentiles but when jews are outnumberd on this forum people will start to think this a christian zionist forum and it might lose its appeal to jews
and also righteous gentiles are not only white. i do not like it when white gentiles on this forum start critizing asians or latinos. the white christians have acted worse towards jews than both of these groups.
Please do not try to put a divide etween the Jews and the Christians. We need everyone here.
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Maybe a strange question?
What is the difference between a Jew and a Gentile?
Are not Gentiles also Jewish by religion? But they are converted to Judaism and are not Jews by origin?
a gentile is anyone who is not a jew (catholic, muslim, hindu, orthodox,) etc
Do not compare Catholics to Muslims. And this movement needs everyone to participate in order to be a mass movement.
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Maybe a strange question?
What is the difference between a Jew and a Gentile?
Are not Gentiles also Jewish by religion? But they are converted to Judaism and are not Jews by origin?
a gentile is anyone who is not a jew (catholic, muslim, hindu, orthodox,) etc
Oke I though she was a Jew? But she seems to be a gentile?
What is an Infidel? What does that mean ?
Thank you for your answers.
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whats the big fuss about. what did she contribute that was that great. i think we should reach out more to jews and judaism or we might as well drop the j from jtf. i really like the support of gentiles. but when they have more power than jews on a jewish forum it is just wrong. i think that unfortunately our cause might be lost if we dont stay to the point( israel) of course. i also commend chaim for reaching out to gentiles but when jews are outnumberd on this forum people will start to think this a christian zionist forum and it might lose its appeal to jews
and also righteous gentiles are not only white. i do not like it when white gentiles on this forum start critizing asians or latinos. the white christians have acted worse towards jews than both of these groups.
Please do not try to put a divide etween the Jews and the Christians. We need everyone here.
i know but it sickens me sometimes to see the racism of our white christians on this forum. and i dont think this should represent a jewish forum
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Maybe a strange question?
What is the difference between a Jew and a Gentile?
Are not Gentiles also Jewish by religion? But they are converted to Judaism and are not Jews by origin?
a gentile is anyone who is not a jew (catholic, muslim, hindu, orthodox,) etc
Oke I though she was a Jew? But she seems to be a gentile?
What is an Infidel? What does that mean ?
Thank you for your answers.
Muslims are not gentiles they are demons, and an Infidel is anyone who is not a dirty Muzzie.
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Maybe a strange question?
What is the difference between a Jew and a Gentile?
Are not Gentiles also Jewish by religion? But they are converted to Judaism and are not Jews by origin?
a gentile is anyone who is not a jew (catholic, muslim, hindu, orthodox,) etc
Oke I though she was a Jew? But she seems to be a gentile?
What is an Infidel? What does that mean ?
Thank you for your answers.
an infidel is what the muslim nazis call everyone who is not a muslim. according to the koran infidels must be wiped out
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whats the big fuss about. what did she contribute that was that great. i think we should reach out more to jews and judaism or we might as well drop the j from jtf. i really like the support of gentiles. but when they have more power than jews on a jewish forum it is just wrong. i think that unfortunately our cause might be lost if we dont stay to the point( israel) of course. i also commend chaim for reaching out to gentiles but when jews are outnumberd on this forum people will start to think this a christian zionist forum and it might lose its appeal to jews
and also righteous gentiles are not only white. i do not like it when white gentiles on this forum start critizing asians or latinos. the white christians have acted worse towards jews than both of these groups.
Please do not try to put a divide etween the Jews and the Christians. We need everyone here.
i know but it sickens me sometimes to see the racism of our white christians on this forum. and i dont think this should represent a jewish forum
What racism are you talking about? If any thing the White Christians on this movement has been more united and solid for this movement. Again I ask you please do not divide or put a wedge between our Jewish and Chrisitan members.
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Maybe a strange question?
What is the difference between a Jew and a Gentile?
Are not Gentiles also Jewish by religion? But they are converted to Judaism and are not Jews by origin?
a gentile is anyone who is not a jew (catholic, muslim, hindu, orthodox,) etc
Oke I though she was a Jew? But she seems to be a gentile?
What is an Infidel? What does that mean ?
Thank you for your answers.
Muslims are not gentiles they are demons, and an Infidel is anyone who is not a dirty Muzzie.
gentile: A non-Jew. http://www.gradesaver.com/classicnotes/titles/illuminated/terms.html
that is the strait and simple definition. i know obviously you cannot compare catholics to muslims but they does not change the definition of a word
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whats the big fuss about. what did she contribute that was that great. i think we should reach out more to jews and judaism or we might as well drop the j from jtf. i really like the support of gentiles. but when they have more power than jews on a jewish forum it is just wrong. i think that unfortunately our cause might be lost if we dont stay to the point( israel) of course. i also commend chaim for reaching out to gentiles but when jews are outnumberd on this forum people will start to think this a christian zionist forum and it might lose its appeal to jews
and also righteous gentiles are not only white. i do not like it when white gentiles on this forum start critizing asians or latinos. the white christians have acted worse towards jews than both of these groups.
Please do not try to put a divide etween the Jews and the Christians. We need everyone here.
i know but it sickens me sometimes to see the racism of our white christians on this forum. and i dont think this should represent a jewish forum
What racism are you talking about? If any thing the White Christians on this movement has been more united and solid for this movement. Again I ask you please do not divide or put a wedge between our Jewish and Chrisitan members.
i am not but i wish the jtf had more gentiles who were not all white. i would like the jtf to have more asian, latino and black members. if we reach out to them we will be more united and strong. and yes there is alot of racism to these groups on this forum
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We need everyone involved including Skippy and hope Scriabin can both put their petty aside and reconsider. So I am asking you Shimon, last thing we need is any division among our Jews and Christian memebers. And besides that is against this forum policy we need everyone.
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whats the big fuss about. what did she contribute that was that great. i think we should reach out more to jews and judaism or we might as well drop the j from jtf. i really like the support of gentiles. but when they have more power than jews on a jewish forum it is just wrong. i think that unfortunately our cause might be lost if we dont stay to the point( israel) of course. i also commend chaim for reaching out to gentiles but when jews are outnumberd on this forum people will start to think this a christian zionist forum and it might lose its appeal to jews
and also righteous gentiles are not only white. i do not like it when white gentiles on this forum start critizing asians or latinos. the white christians have acted worse towards jews than both of these groups.
Please do not try to put a divide etween the Jews and the Christians. We need everyone here.
i know but it sickens me sometimes to see the racism of our white christians on this forum. and i dont think this should represent a jewish forum
What racism are you talking about? If any thing the White Christians on this movement has been more united and solid for this movement. Again I ask you please do not divide or put a wedge between our Jewish and Chrisitan members.
i am not but i wish the jtf had more gentiles who were not all white. i would like the jtf to have more asian, latino and black members. if we reach out to them we will be more united and strong. and yes there is alot of racism to these groups on this forum
JTF isn't about those of different race, we are into those who are righteous and nobel. It has nothing to do if one is white or not. But I don't know where you come from, but we have members on this forum that are not caucasion. We want righteous of any race. As long as they are good people no one cares their skin color.
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whats the big fuss about. what did she contribute that was that great. i think we should reach out more to jews and judaism or we might as well drop the j from jtf. i really like the support of gentiles. but when they have more power than jews on a jewish forum it is just wrong. i think that unfortunately our cause might be lost if we dont stay to the point( israel) of course. i also commend chaim for reaching out to gentiles but when jews are outnumberd on this forum people will start to think this a christian zionist forum and it might lose its appeal to jews
and also righteous gentiles are not only white. i do not like it when white gentiles on this forum start critizing asians or latinos. the white christians have acted worse towards jews than both of these groups.
Please do not try to put a divide etween the Jews and the Christians. We need everyone here.
i know but it sickens me sometimes to see the racism of our white christians on this forum. and i dont think this should represent a jewish forum
What racism are you talking about? If any thing the White Christians on this movement has been more united and solid for this movement. Again I ask you please do not divide or put a wedge between our Jewish and Chrisitan members.
i am not but i wish the jtf had more gentiles who were not all white. i would like the jtf to have more asian, latino and black members. if we reach out to them we will be more united and strong. and yes there is alot of racism to these groups on this forum
Most people from them groups could not care less about the things that concern us here in the forum.
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We need everyone involved including Skippy and hope Scriabin can both put their petty aside and reconsider. So I am asking you Shimon, last thing we need is any division among our Jews and Christian memebers. And besides that is against this forum policy we need everyone.
I knew at the end of the day it would be only Scriabin that would be gone. He was member who was not afraid to speak his mind if he saw something that was not right. Who exactly changed the name on his posts?
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What does "white" or "caucasian" mean,
since white caucasian Serbs
were bombed by western NAZO,
faced shitler's will to exterminate them,
had germans,
from medieval times, up to nowadays ,
willing to destroy them,
and NAZICROATS, ALBANAZIS slaughter them ?
WHITE means NOTHING.
Believe, at least, a Serb.
8;)
More Blacks ?
Which ones ?
Farrakhanists ?
To which point ?
Shall they outnumber the whites ?
Will THEIR (anti-white) racism be allowed ?
(Because, I guess, as soon as they
outnumber the whites, they'd start
complaining on them.)
More Asians ?
Which ones ?
Turks ?
(Who are muSSlims.)
Iranians ?
(Who are Indo-Europeans,
related to the whites,
and muSSlims.)
Malaysians ?
Japanese ?
(Who gave shitler strong support,
participating, therefor, to the Shoah.)
Hindus ?
(Who are Indo-Europeans,
related to whites,
and polytheists.)
Pakistanis ?
(Who are indo-Europeans,
related to the whites,
and muSSlims.)
Afghanis ?
(Who are Indo-Europeans,
related to the whites,
and muSSlims.)
CHECHENAZIS ?
(Who allied themselves to shitler,
because, certainly, of their great
love for democracy...
and who are muSSlims.)
Chinese ?
Vast question, isn't it ?
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CF has point, but I'm gald you back after changing your IP and E-mail I hope. ;)
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What does "white" or "caucasian" mean,
since white caucasian Serbs
were bombed by western NAZO,
faced shitler's will to exterminate them,
had germans,
from medieval times, up to nowadays ,
willing to destroy them,
and NAZICROATS, ALBANAZIS slaughter them ?
WHITE means NOTHING.
Believe, at least, a Serb.
8;)
More Blacks ?
Which ones ?
Farrakhanists ?
To which point ?
Shall they outnumber the whites ?
Will THEIR (anti-white) racism be allowed ?
(Because, I guess, as soon as they
outnumber the whites, they'd start
complaining on them.)
More Asians ?
Which ones ?
Turks ?
(Who are muSSlims.)
Iranians ?
(Who are Indo-Europeans,
related to the whites,
and muSSlims.)
Malaysians ?
Japanese ?
(Who gave shitler strong support,
participating, therefor, to the Shoah.)
Hindus ?
(Who are Indo-Europeans,
related to whites,
and polytheists.)
Pakistanis ?
(Who are indo-Europeans,
related to the whites,
and muSSlims.)
Afghanis ?
(Who are Indo-Europeans,
related to the whites,
and muSSlims.)
CHECHENAZIS ?
(Who allied themselves to shitler,
because, certainly, of their great
love for democracy...
and who are muSSlims.)
Chinese ?
Vast question, isn't it ?
we should have more of all these groups. we can bring these people back to the fold. we can make them civilized again. for exampale the persians used to be one of the most advanced civilizations before they became muslims
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Any civilization was beautiful, before the muSSlims arrived...
Concerning the Persians (Iranians),
a minority fights iSSlam from within,
as well as from the outside.
I know one Persian man,
mister Shahpour Sadlet, who is
strongly anti-iSSlamic (with Death threats on him, of course),
who is Pro-Serbian, and who sees iSSlam as the greatest evil that ever stroke Persia/Iran.
He's 75 years old now,
I guess, and is wonderful.
Here's a comment of his,
in a blog about the anti-semitic
"conference" in Iran:
From:
http://www.blog-fillon.com/article-4885393-6.html
"Réponse d'un PERSAN de 74 ans exilé en France
luttant depuis plus de 27 ans (1979-2006) contre le totalitarisme islamo-révolutionnaire instauré en Iran par Khomeyni.
De "soutien" aux "forces politiques iraniennes qui luttent contre le régime en place à Téhéran" pour reprendre les mots mêmes de votre blog, il n'y en a jamais vraiment eu en France, bien au contraire.
En outre, s'agit-il d'une réelle volonté politique de votre part qui sera suivie d'actions concrètes ou d'une pure déclaration d'intention ou de principe vouée à rester lettre morte?
Par ailleurs, y a-t-il lieu d'inclure, de la part d'un homme de droite de surcroît et premier-ministrable en outre, dans ce soutien, comme vous le faites implicitement , les « Moudjahidine du peuple », organisation islamo-marxiste au passé terroriste bien établi (cf. les déclarations très explicites de Nicolas Sarkozy à ce sujet au Sénat en juin 2003), groupuscule "sectaire" (cf. Nicolas Sarkozy supra) qui jadis oeuvra, très activement et de manière sanglante, à l'instauration de la République islamique et surtout contribua puissamment pendant 888 jours (1979-1981) à sa consolidation avant son éviction par Khomeyni, et dont l'actuelle dirigeante quasi gourelle, Madame Radjavi, basée en France, et soutenue indéfectiblement par une vaste nébuleuse ancrée dans la gauche française mais paradoxalement bien au-delà également , ne se départ JAMAIS de son foulard islamique, signe extérieur d'un islamisme persistant totalement marginal dans la diaspora iranienne (forte de 5 millions d'exilés à travers le monde) où je vous défie de trouver des Iraniennes voilées ou enfoulardées...
Enfin, aurez-vous le courage de reproduire in extenso sur votre blog, et sans le censurer, ce message, principalement factuel, d'un Persan de 74 ans, opposant de la PREMIERE heure au régime de Khomeyni, CONTRAIREMENT aux Moudjahidine du peuple » qui, eux, ont activement collaboré avec Khomeyni pendant 888 jours de 1979 à 1981, période durant laquelle des actes d'une barbarie inouïe (flagellations, lapidations, énucléations, amputation de main et de jambe, vitriol jeté aux visages des femmes non voilées), exécutions de masse et apartheid sexuel (destitution de toutes les femmes magistrates, exclusion brutale des femmes de la gendarmerie et de l'armée, réduction de leurs droits, abolition de la législation féministe instaurée par le Shah etc.) furent institués avec leur concours direct et leur bénédiction? C'est aussi cela "le devoir de mémoire " auquel vous rappelle le témoin de ces événements que je fus.
Shahpour SADLET
Fondateur du
Comité CYRUS le Grand
pour les Droits de l'Homme et la Laïcité
BP 523
75825 Paris cedex 17
email: [email protected]
commentaire n° : 21 posté par : Shahpour SADLET le: 15/12/2006 12:57:23 "
I'll put here, if I find , his website.
Please,
check in this very post of mine,
since I'll modify it.
(And...this will be the help
of a white, Caucasian Serb...)
8;)
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Infact the greatest Muslim scientists and those who made the Islamic world to the most advenced one in the world were mostly Parsians.
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Infact the greatest Muslim scientists and those who made the Islamic world to the most advenced one in the world were mostly Parsians.
They were Mulawi, a first generation converts to iSSlame, many of them of Jewish, Bizantian or Persian backround, all of them secular dissidents making their discoveries despite not thanks to iSSlame. Shimon maybe more palestinians will be better than us white faces; JTF can't be so "rascist"!
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Infact the greatest Muslim scientists and those who made the Islamic world to the most advenced one in the world were mostly Parsians.
Exactly.
More generally,
the iSSlamic "world" "borrowed"
from greeks, persians and Jews,
and hindus, and every single People they conquered.
It was easy, then,
to re-name everything
they "borrowed" as: "iSSlamic"...
::)
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Infact the greatest Muslim scientists and those who made the Islamic world to the most advenced one in the world were mostly Parsians.
Exactly.
More generally,
the iSSlamic "world" "borrowed"
from greeks, persians and Jews,
and hindus, and every single People they conquered.
It was easy, then,
to re-name everything
they "borrowed" as: "iSSlamic"...
::)
Not true, the Islamic world was a great thing and got the world much more advanced. People who say Islam didn't contributed to the world positively are liars.
-
Another Shahpour Sadlet's reaction,
in another "forum", website:
From:
http://www.liberation.com/php/pages/pageReactionsList.php?rubId=12&docId=222505&s2=&pp=&next=0
"Shahpour Du Shah à Ahmadinejad
Pendant 2500 ans, i.e. depuis l'empereur perse Cyrus au dernier Shah, l'Iran monarchique fut toujours l'ami et le protecteur des Juifs. En 1979, du jour au lendemain, avec l'ayatollah Khomeyni, tout a changé. Mais que pèsent dans l'Histoire plurimillénaire des peuples, et du peuple perse en particulier, 27 ans de "Ripoublique islamique" antisémite illégitime (1979-2006) face à 2500 ans de monarchie perse constamment bienveillante envers les minorités religieuses, notamment juives? La conférence révisionniste de Téhéran n'est hélas que la conclusion LOGIQUE de 27 années d'un antisémitisme d'Etat CONTINU, fondement idéologique de la Révolution islamique de Khomeyni qui, faut-il le rappeler, a coalisé en 1979, contre le régime pro-occidental et moderniste du Shah, l'ensemble des forces ANTI-MONARCHIQUES (de l'extrême gauche à l'extrême droite républicaine) qui se réclamaient toutes d'un même antisionisme virulent et qui fustigeaient à l'unisson le Shah pour ses liens étroits avec les USA, jugés sionistes, et surtout avec Israël que l'Iran, en coulisses et sous l'égide du Shah, avait spectaculairement réconcilié avec son ennemi juré l'Egypte de Sadate, pourtant héritier de Nasser et tête de file du panarabisme le plus revendicateur. Mais cette Pax Persica inattendue promue le Shah dérangeait bien trop d'intérêts puissants: le monarque iranien pacificateur sera renversé par des islamistes et leurs acolytes, Sadate finira assassiné, et le conflit israélo-arabe, en passe d'être définitivement réglé par un roi perse, arbitre impartial (car ni arabe ni juif), reprendra de plus belle, relancé par l'interventionnisme destabilisateur d'un Etat pourtant non limitrophe et surtout non arabe, l'Iran dont le nom signifie étymologiquement "pays des Aryens"... Shahpour SADLET ( [email protected] ), Persan exilé à Paris, président du Mémorial des Rois et fondateur du Comité CYRUS le Grand pour les Droits de l'Hom Mardi 12 Décembre 2006 - 11:25 "
O0
This man would definitely be a Great JTFer.
He knows the enemy...from within.
-
Can you translate ?
-
Infact the greatest Muslim scientists and those who made the Islamic world to the most advenced one in the world were mostly Parsians.
Exactly.
More generally,
the iSSlamic "world" "borrowed"
from greeks, persians and Jews,
and hindus, and every single People they conquered.
It was easy, then,
to re-name everything
they "borrowed" as: "iSSlamic"...
::)
Not true, the Islamic world was a great thing and got the world much more advanced. People who say Islam didn't contributed to the world positively are liars.
Like in medieval Serbia, I guess...
;)
-
Can you translate ?
I'd like to,
but are you aware of the amount of work ?
8;)
While I do find Shahpour Sadlet appearances in the WWW
for our JTF purpose, I'm working on a drawing.
:P
I'm not saying I won't,
but if someone could put these texts
into some mechanical translators,
in order to have them translated much faster
than i would be able to do right now,
and then, post these texts, once translated...
It will be much more easy, then, for me,
to correct/translate the (few, i guess) parts
that would perhaps remain un-translated,
or badly translated.
:)
-
Infact the greatest Muslim scientists and those who made the Islamic world to the most advenced one in the world were mostly Parsians.
Exactly.
More generally,
the iSSlamic "world" "borrowed"
from greeks, persians and Jews,
and hindus, and every single People they conquered.
It was easy, then,
to re-name everything
they "borrowed" as: "iSSlamic"...
::)
Not true, the Islamic world was a great thing and got the world much more advanced. People who say Islam didn't contributed to the world positively are liars.
Like in medieval Serbia, I guess...
;)
The Christian world in medieval ages (9th century - 14th century) wasn't very advencing and didn't added much to the world.
but are you aware of the amount of work ?
Then tell us shortly what he said.
-
Christian Serbia thanks you a lot, first.
I guess, then, we needed
some iSSlam in our Country,
for our own sake...Am I silly...
::)
Then, shortly:
Shahpour struggles against
"iranian" iSSlam for decades now.
He works on it to have it back,
at the great Time of Cyrus the great,
who was a Friend of the Jews.
According to him,
everything anti-Jewish in iran
occures from the sad days
of its iSSlamization.
-
Infact the greatest Muslim scientists and those who made the Islamic world to the most advenced one in the world were mostly Parsians.
Exactly.
More generally,
the iSSlamic "world" "borrowed"
from greeks, persians and Jews,
and hindus, and every single People they conquered.
It was easy, then,
to re-name everything
they "borrowed" as: "iSSlamic"...
::)
Not true, the Islamic world was a great thing and got the world much more advanced. People who say Islam didn't contributed to the world positively are liars.
Like in medieval Serbia, I guess...
;)
The Christian world in medieval ages (9th century - 14th century) wasn't very advencing and didn't added much to the world.
but are you aware of the amount of work ?
Then tell us shortly what he said.
You call the crop rotation, water mills, mechanical clocks, banks, artilery and naval navigation naming the few nothing? High Medival times since Crusades to Black Death were more prosperous than both ancient and pre XIX century times. Dark Ages are sterotype from times of "Enlightent"
-
Infact the greatest Muslim scientists and those who made the Islamic world to the most advenced one in the world were mostly Parsians.
Exactly.
More generally,
the iSSlamic "world" "borrowed"
from greeks, persians and Jews,
and hindus, and every single People they conquered.
It was easy, then,
to re-name everything
they "borrowed" as: "iSSlamic"...
::)
Not true, the Islamic world was a great thing and got the world much more advanced. People who say Islam didn't contributed to the world positively are liars.
Like in medieval Serbia, I guess...
;)
The Christian world in medieval ages (9th century - 14th century) wasn't very advencing and didn't added much to the world.
but are you aware of the amount of work ?
Then tell us shortly what he said.
You call the crop rotation, water mills, mechanical clocks, banks, artilery and naval navigation naming the few nothing? High Medival times since Crusades to Black Death were more prosperous than both ancient and pre XIX century times. Dark Ages are sterotype from times of "Enlightent"
HMMMMM
Crop rotation:
"During the Muslim Agricultural Revolution of the Islamic Golden Age, Muslim engineers and farmers introduced a new modern rotation system where land was cropped four times or more in a two year period. Winter crops were followed by summer ones, and in some cases there was in between. In areas where plants of shorter growing season were used, ie.spinach and eggplants, the land could be cropped three or more times a year. According to some sources, in parts of Yemen wheat yielded two harvests a year on the same land, as did rice in Iraq. Scholars such as Andrew Watson have written of a Muslim agricultural revolution as the Islamic world made significant progress in developing a more "scientific" approach based on three major elements; sophisticated systems of crop rotation, highly developed irrigation techniques and introduction of a large variety of crops which were studied and catalogued according to the season, type of land and amount of water they require. Numerous farming encyclopaedias, with surprising great precision and details, were produced."
Artilary was invented by Chinese and adopted by Europeans at the 16 century.
The Europeans did NOTHING in the Dark Ages.
Read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_science
-
OK people, let's not get into a fight. It's not worth it.
Our mutual enemies now are the jihadists and their radical left enablers. Let's remember that.
-
Amen, Lisa (as usual).
Shimon, there are several non-whites and non-Christians. I am not white. Cosmokramer is black as a matter of fact. There are many Noahides on this forum as well.
I just do not see tons of racism around here. JTF is anti-racism and anti-Nazism in all cases. It just so happens that there are more racists and anti-Semites within the so-called "minority" groups right now (except Asians) than in whites. Why should we keep our mouths shut about that?
-
She was gone for less than a day if at all! I can never understand the motivation behind some of the smoke and mirror routine's some people will go through with new names and leaving and then returning to the forum. WHATS THE POINT? Anyway the way I see it she was never really gone so all this is really nothing more than luction.
Cjd you have one very long day mate. ;D
-
I knew that sounded familiar... welcome!
Thanks Dan.
-
I wish to thank Husar for what he has done. What I stated in my letter is 100% correct to my feelings I still have.
You're warmly welcome, Sister.
;)
You did also worry
when I was about to leave.
:) :) :)
I know Husar :) :)
Thank you.
-
Fidei defensor = skippy so why not just change the name back?
-
As Chaim (along with most reputable historians) has said on many occasions, iSSlamic "science and innovation" is a fraud. The original muSSlims were arabs who invented NOTHING. Great science and architecture existed in NON-muSSlim Persia, Asyria, Egypt and other non-muSSlim lands. When these lands and people were conquered by the arab-muSSlims this science and innovation was absorbed. It didn't last (as can be seen by observation today) because iSSlam is a religion and culture that inhibits and prevents thought.
BTW,
Welome back, Skip'.
-
As Chaim (along with most reputable historians) has said on many occasions, iSSlamic "science and innovation" is a fraud. The original muSSlims were arabs who invented NOTHING. Great science and architecture existed in NON-muSSlim Persia, Asyria, Egypt and other non-muSSlim lands. When these lands and people were conquered by the arab-muSSlims this science and innovation was absorbed. It didn't last (as can be seen by observation today) because iSSlam is a religion and culture that inhibits and prevents thought.
BTW,
Welome back, Skip'.
Exactly, iSSlam retards people and paralyzes the mind into inventing nothing but maybe some suicide bombs or nukes ;D
-
Fidei defensor = skippy so why not just change the name back?
Because I wanted to surprise a few of my friends on this forum, namely Husar :::D
I will change it later Only came back yesterday afternoon, give me time ;D
And BTW thanks Newman ^-^
-
Fidei defensor = skippy so why not just change the name back?
Because I wanted to surprise a few of my friends on this forum, namely Husar :::D
I will change it later Only came back yesterday afternoon, give me time ;D
And BTW thanks Newman ^-^
Well you sure surprised us ;D
Welcome back O0
-
Glad you're back.
-
She was gone for less than a day if at all! I can never understand the motivation behind some of the smoke and mirror routine's some people will go through with new names and leaving and then returning to the forum. WHATS THE POINT? Anyway the way I see it she was never really gone so all this is really nothing more than luction.
Cjd you have one very long day mate. ;D
I do have long days but thats besides the point. Anyway If you were indeed gone welcome back. I always say all our members serve a purpose and I hate to see anyone leave the forum.
-
Fidei defensor = skippy so why not just change the name back?
Because I wanted to surprise a few of my friends on this forum, namely Husar :::D
I will change it later Only came back yesterday afternoon, give me time ;D
And BTW thanks Newman ^-^
Well you sure surprised us ;D
Welcome back O0
Thanks JTFFan
-
Glad you're back.
Thanks Sarah
-
She was gone for less than a day if at all! I can never understand the motivation behind some of the smoke and mirror routine's some people will go through with new names and leaving and then returning to the forum. WHATS THE POINT? Anyway the way I see it she was never really gone so all this is really nothing more than luction.
Cjd you have one very long day mate. ;D
I do have long days but thats besides the point. Anyway If you were indeed gone welcome back. I always say all our members serve a purpose and I hate to see anyone leave the forum.
Well I will thank that back welcome on the value it was meant.
-
It is such a pleasure to have you baaaack.
-
Fidei defensor = skippy so why not just change the name back?
There jdl i changed it just for you :D :::D
-
no surprise you're back...
-
no surprise you're back...
I am not completely back, I never will be.
-
no surprise you're back...
I am not completely back, I never will be.
what do you mean?
-
I will never forgive or forget.
-
I will never forgive or forget.
You're still welcome imo O0 O0
-
Skippy I am happy that you are back.
-
Skippy I am happy that you are back.
Thanks mate. O0
-
Forgive or forget who?
-
As Chaim (along with most reputable historians) has said on many occasions, iSSlamic "science and innovation" is a fraud. The original muSSlims were arabs who invented NOTHING. Great science and architecture existed in NON-muSSlim Persia, Asyria, Egypt and other non-muSSlim lands. When these lands and people were conquered by the arab-muSSlims this science and innovation was absorbed. It didn't last (as can be seen by observation today) because iSSlam is a religion and culture that inhibits and prevents thought.
BTW,
Welome back, Skip'.
Not true, did you read the link ?
-
Dexter even if Muzzies invented something thousands of years ago, they haven't invented anything in so many centuries that its irrelevant.
-
Forgive or forget who?
The list is too long mate. I am happier knowing a few more things now. 8;) :)
-
As Chaim (along with most reputable historians) has said on many occasions, iSSlamic "science and innovation" is a fraud. The original muSSlims were arabs who invented NOTHING. Great science and architecture existed in NON-muSSlim Persia, Asyria, Egypt and other non-muSSlim lands. When these lands and people were conquered by the arab-muSSlims this science and innovation was absorbed. It didn't last (as can be seen by observation today) because iSSlam is a religion and culture that inhibits and prevents thought.
BTW,
Welome back, Skip'.
Not true, did you read the link ?
What I said IS true.
You should re-read the link because it backs up what I said.
During the early Muslim conquests, the Muslim Arabs led by Khalid ibn al-Walid conquered the Sassanid Persian Empire and more than half of the Byzantine Roman Empire, establishing the Arab Empire across the Middle East, Central Asia, and North Africa, followed by further expansions across Pakistan, southern Italy and the Iberian Peninsula. As a result, the Islamic governments inherited "the knowledge and skills of the ancient Middle East, of Greece, of Persia and of India.
-
As Chaim (along with most reputable historians) has said on many occasions, iSSlamic "science and innovation" is a fraud. The original muSSlims were arabs who invented NOTHING. Great science and architecture existed in NON-muSSlim Persia, Asyria, Egypt and other non-muSSlim lands. When these lands and people were conquered by the arab-muSSlims this science and innovation was absorbed. It didn't last (as can be seen by observation today) because iSSlam is a religion and culture that inhibits and prevents thought.
BTW,
Welome back, Skip'.
Not true, did you read the link ?
What I said IS true.
You should re-read the link because it backs up what I said.
During the early Muslim conquests, the Muslim Arabs led by Khalid ibn al-Walid conquered the Sassanid Persian Empire and more than half of the Byzantine Roman Empire, establishing the Arab Empire across the Middle East, Central Asia, and North Africa, followed by further expansions across Pakistan, southern Italy and the Iberian Peninsula. As a result, the Islamic governments inherited "the knowledge and skills of the ancient Middle East, of Greece, of Persia and of India.
Not really, they invented a lot, the fact they were inpiared by the other people they conquered (the Byzantine Roman Empire is not included because it infact, did nothing).
-
I wish to thank Husar for what he has done. What I stated in my letter is 100% correct to my feelings I still have.
You're warmly welcome, Sister.
;)
You did also worry
when I was about to leave.
:) :) :)
I know Husar :) :)
Thank you.
You're welcome.
:)
-
Fidei defensor = skippy so why not just change the name back?
Because I wanted to surprise a few of my friends on this forum, namely Husar :::D
I will change it later Only came back yesterday afternoon, give me time ;D
And BTW thanks Newman ^-^
You succeeded in this.
;D ;D ;D
-
Fidei defensor = skippy so why not just change the name back?
Because I wanted to surprise a few of my friends on this forum, namely Husar :::D
I will change it later Only came back yesterday afternoon, give me time ;D
And BTW thanks Newman ^-^
You succeeded in this.
;D ;D ;D
I know I was naughty :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D
-
As Chaim (along with most reputable historians) has said on many occasions, iSSlamic "science and innovation" is a fraud. The original muSSlims were arabs who invented NOTHING. Great science and architecture existed in NON-muSSlim Persia, Asyria, Egypt and other non-muSSlim lands. When these lands and people were conquered by the arab-muSSlims this science and innovation was absorbed. It didn't last (as can be seen by observation today) because iSSlam is a religion and culture that inhibits and prevents thought.
BTW,
Welome back, Skip'.
Not true, did you read the link ?
What I said IS true.
You should re-read the link because it backs up what I said.
During the early Muslim conquests, the Muslim Arabs led by Khalid ibn al-Walid conquered the Sassanid Persian Empire and more than half of the Byzantine Roman Empire, establishing the Arab Empire across the Middle East, Central Asia, and North Africa, followed by further expansions across Pakistan, southern Italy and the Iberian Peninsula. As a result, the Islamic governments inherited "the knowledge and skills of the ancient Middle East, of Greece, of Persia and of India.
Not really, they invented a lot, the fact they were inpiared by the other people they conquered (the Byzantine Roman Empire is not included because it infact, did nothing).
Arab-muSSlims couldn't invent a wooden club!
The knowledge and science base came from non-muSSlim people in non-muSSlim lands. NOTHING came from arab-muSSlim savages.
Look at iSSlam for the last few centuries. If muSSlims are so scientific, why did the whole iSSlamic world degenerate into the dark ages when the christian and Jewish worlds advanced?
Why does the iSSlamic world need to import doctors, engineers and other technical workers from the west to function if they're remotely capable of invention or inovation?
-
As Chaim (along with most reputable historians) has said on many occasions, iSSlamic "science and innovation" is a fraud. The original muSSlims were arabs who invented NOTHING. Great science and architecture existed in NON-muSSlim Persia, Asyria, Egypt and other non-muSSlim lands. When these lands and people were conquered by the arab-muSSlims this science and innovation was absorbed. It didn't last (as can be seen by observation today) because iSSlam is a religion and culture that inhibits and prevents thought.
BTW,
Welome back, Skip'.
Not true, did you read the link ?
What I said IS true.
You should re-read the link because it backs up what I said.
During the early Muslim conquests, the Muslim Arabs led by Khalid ibn al-Walid conquered the Sassanid Persian Empire and more than half of the Byzantine Roman Empire, establishing the Arab Empire across the Middle East, Central Asia, and North Africa, followed by further expansions across Pakistan, southern Italy and the Iberian Peninsula. As a result, the Islamic governments inherited "the knowledge and skills of the ancient Middle East, of Greece, of Persia and of India.
Not really, they invented a lot, the fact they were inpiared by the other people they conquered (the Byzantine Roman Empire is not included because it infact, did nothing).
Arab-muSSlims couldn't invent a wooden club!
The knowledge and science base came from non-muSSlim people in non-muSSlim lands. NOTHING came from arab-muSSlim savages.
Look at iSSlam for the last few centuries. If muSSlims are so scientific, why did the whole iSSlamic world degenerate into the dark ages when the christian and Jewish worlds advanced?
Why does the iSSlamic world need to import doctors, engineers and other technical workers from the west to function if they're remotely capable of invention or inovation?
I said Muslims, didn't say Arab Muslims. But Arabs also invented things, after all the Islamic culture is based on the Arab culture. The Islamic world in it's golden age brought us only good, especially to Judaism, only because of the effect of the Islamic and Arabic philosophies we had rabbis as the Ramban, Shlomo Ibn Gvirol, Sa'adia Gaon and people as Binyamin Metulad and Yehuda HaLewi and so on and so on. The Muslim allowed the Jews to live in Jerusalem etc'.
If you were actually reading Bernard Louise books (that are always recommended here) you will understand what happend to the Islamic world and why he became static in the 13th century and suddenly got back to the 7th century. Especially read The Middle East and The Arabs in History. It's too long to write down the things that happened, but it's mostly because of the ideas the Christians world got from the Islamic world and in the same time movements as the Renaissance in the 14th century.
Listen, Newman. Every religion has it's era of fundamentalism, it happened to Judaism in the 1-2 century C.E. in Judea and to Christianity in the 10th-13th centuries C.E., now it's the era of the Islamic fundamentalism. It doesn't mean Islam was always like that, and Wahhabism didn't existed until the 18th century. Plus, Arab historions said in the Islamic golden age exactly what you say about Arabs, only they talked about the Northen-European people. I read in the book "The Middle East" about one Arab historion who listed the people who contributed to the world: "Greeks, Jews, Persians[...] only the fool, fat blond haired did nothing and can't have the sense/wisdom that normal people have" (quotation from the memory..).
-
As Chaim (along with most reputable historians) has said on many occasions, iSSlamic "science and innovation" is a fraud. The original muSSlims were arabs who invented NOTHING. Great science and architecture existed in NON-muSSlim Persia, Asyria, Egypt and other non-muSSlim lands. When these lands and people were conquered by the arab-muSSlims this science and innovation was absorbed. It didn't last (as can be seen by observation today) because iSSlam is a religion and culture that inhibits and prevents thought.
BTW,
Welome back, Skip'.
Not true, did you read the link ?
What I said IS true.
You should re-read the link because it backs up what I said.
During the early Muslim conquests, the Muslim Arabs led by Khalid ibn al-Walid conquered the Sassanid Persian Empire and more than half of the Byzantine Roman Empire, establishing the Arab Empire across the Middle East, Central Asia, and North Africa, followed by further expansions across Pakistan, southern Italy and the Iberian Peninsula. As a result, the Islamic governments inherited "the knowledge and skills of the ancient Middle East, of Greece, of Persia and of India.
Not really, they invented a lot, the fact they were inpiared by the other people they conquered (the Byzantine Roman Empire is not included because it infact, did nothing).
Arab-muSSlims couldn't invent a wooden club!
The knowledge and science base came from non-muSSlim people in non-muSSlim lands. NOTHING came from arab-muSSlim savages.
Look at iSSlam for the last few centuries. If muSSlims are so scientific, why did the whole iSSlamic world degenerate into the dark ages when the christian and Jewish worlds advanced?
Why does the iSSlamic world need to import doctors, engineers and other technical workers from the west to function if they're remotely capable of invention or inovation?
I said Muslims, didn't say Arab Muslims. But Arabs also invented things, after all the Islamic culture is based on the Arab culture. The Islamic world in it's golden age brought us only good, especially to Judaism, only because of the effect of the Islamic and Arabic philosophies we had rabbis as the Ramban, Shlomo Ibn Gvirol, Sa'adia Gaon and people as Binyamin Metulad and Yehuda HaLewi and so on and so on. The Muslim allowed the Jews to live in Jerusalem etc'.
If you were actually reading Bernard Louise books (that are always recommended here) you will understand what happend to the Islamic world and why he became static in the 13th century and suddenly got back to the 7th century. Especially read The Middle East and The Arabs in History. It's too long to write down the things that happened, but it's mostly because of the ideas the Christians world got from the Islamic world and in the same time movements as the Renaissance in the 14th century.
Listen, Newman. Every religion has it's era of fundamentalism, it happened to Judaism in the 1-2 century C.E. in Judea and to Christianity in the 10th-13th centuries C.E., now it's the era of the Islamic fundamentalism. It doesn't mean Islam was always like that, and Wahhabism didn't existed until the 18th century. Plus, Arab historions said in the Islamic golden age exactly what you say about Arabs, only they talked about the Northen-European people. I read in the book "The Middle East" about one Arab historion who listed the people who contributed to the world: "Greeks, Jews, Persians[...] only the fool, fat blond haired did nothing and can't have the sense/wisdom that normal people have" (quotation from the memory..).
That's a load of taqqiya you've been fed.
Every engineering, architectural and other inovation existed in the pre-iSSlamic lands before muSSlims ever set foot there.
If one studies history Dexter, you see that Jews and christians went FROM fundamentalism TO knowledge and enlightenment. NOBODY goes FROM knowledge and enlightenment TO fundamentalism and ignorance (as you claim the muSSlims have). The muSSlimculture and religion has ALWAYS been backward. The only reason for it's "golden age" was the boost from the knowledge that was WITHIN the non-muSSlim lands and people they conquered. After several generations of iSSlam, that knowledge and innovation died out because iSSlam stifles learning and thought.
I reapeat:
People and cultures go FROM ignorance and fundamentalism TO knowledge and enlightenment................NOT the other way around.
The reason iSSlam and muSSlims are fundamentalist and ignorant today is because the culture/religion has always been that way. If not for persian, greek, egyptian,indian and other non-muSSlim cultures there would have been NO golden age at all in iSSlam.
-
As Chaim (along with most reputable historians) has said on many occasions, iSSlamic "science and innovation" is a fraud. The original muSSlims were arabs who invented NOTHING. Great science and architecture existed in NON-muSSlim Persia, Asyria, Egypt and other non-muSSlim lands. When these lands and people were conquered by the arab-muSSlims this science and innovation was absorbed. It didn't last (as can be seen by observation today) because iSSlam is a religion and culture that inhibits and prevents thought.
BTW,
Welome back, Skip'.
Not true, did you read the link ?
What I said IS true.
You should re-read the link because it backs up what I said.
During the early Muslim conquests, the Muslim Arabs led by Khalid ibn al-Walid conquered the Sassanid Persian Empire and more than half of the Byzantine Roman Empire, establishing the Arab Empire across the Middle East, Central Asia, and North Africa, followed by further expansions across Pakistan, southern Italy and the Iberian Peninsula. As a result, the Islamic governments inherited "the knowledge and skills of the ancient Middle East, of Greece, of Persia and of India.
Not really, they invented a lot, the fact they were inpiared by the other people they conquered (the Byzantine Roman Empire is not included because it infact, did nothing).
Arab-muSSlims couldn't invent a wooden club!
The knowledge and science base came from non-muSSlim people in non-muSSlim lands. NOTHING came from arab-muSSlim savages.
Look at iSSlam for the last few centuries. If muSSlims are so scientific, why did the whole iSSlamic world degenerate into the dark ages when the christian and Jewish worlds advanced?
Why does the iSSlamic world need to import doctors, engineers and other technical workers from the west to function if they're remotely capable of invention or inovation?
I said Muslims, didn't say Arab Muslims. But Arabs also invented things, after all the Islamic culture is based on the Arab culture. The Islamic world in it's golden age brought us only good, especially to Judaism, only because of the effect of the Islamic and Arabic philosophies we had rabbis as the Ramban, Shlomo Ibn Gvirol, Sa'adia Gaon and people as Binyamin Metulad and Yehuda HaLewi and so on and so on. The Muslim allowed the Jews to live in Jerusalem etc'.
If you were actually reading Bernard Louise books (that are always recommended here) you will understand what happend to the Islamic world and why he became static in the 13th century and suddenly got back to the 7th century. Especially read The Middle East and The Arabs in History. It's too long to write down the things that happened, but it's mostly because of the ideas the Christians world got from the Islamic world and in the same time movements as the Renaissance in the 14th century.
Listen, Newman. Every religion has it's era of fundamentalism, it happened to Judaism in the 1-2 century C.E. in Judea and to Christianity in the 10th-13th centuries C.E., now it's the era of the Islamic fundamentalism. It doesn't mean Islam was always like that, and Wahhabism didn't existed until the 18th century. Plus, Arab historions said in the Islamic golden age exactly what you say about Arabs, only they talked about the Northen-European people. I read in the book "The Middle East" about one Arab historion who listed the people who contributed to the world: "Greeks, Jews, Persians[...] only the fool, fat blond haired did nothing and can't have the sense/wisdom that normal people have" (quotation from the memory..).
That's a load of taqqiya you've been fed.
Every engineering, architectural and other inovation existed in the pre-iSSlamic lands before muSSlims ever set foot there.
If one studies history Dexter, you see that Jews and christians went FROM fundamentalism TO knowledge and enlightenment. NOBODY goes FROM knowledge and enlightenment TO fundamentalism and ignorance (as you claim the muSSlims have). The muSSlimculture and religion has ALWAYS been backward. The only reason for it's "golden age" was the boost from the knowledge that was WITHIN the non-muSSlim lands and people they conquered. After several generations of iSSlam, that knowledge and innovation died out because iSSlam stifles learning and thought.
I reapeat:
People and cultures go FROM ignorance and fundamentalism TO knowledge and enlightenment................NOT the other way around.
The reason iSSlam and muSSlims are fundamentalist and ignorant today is because the culture/religion has always been that way. If not for persian, greek, egyptian,indian and other non-muSSlim cultures there would have been NO golden age at all in iSSlam.
Read the wikipedia artical.
If you were correct, the technology of the 21th century have been created in the 10th century because we should have develope the Roman technology and not the Christian technology, which is not true. After the Barberian tribes destroyed the Roman empire the DESTROYED the engineering, architectural and cultural achivments of the Roman empire. There were no biuldings as there were in the Roman empire times until the Renaissance in the 14th century.
History moves in cyclicality way. It surly can't be pradicted but it always have the same structure. The idea of the ignorance and fundamentalism to knowledge and enlightenment has never proved itself. Even the Chinese who were most advenced people in a certein time on History suddenly stoped and moved off the stage for the Muslims and then to the post-Renaissance Christians.
-
As Chaim (along with most reputable historians) has said on many occasions, iSSlamic "science and innovation" is a fraud. The original muSSlims were arabs who invented NOTHING. Great science and architecture existed in NON-muSSlim Persia, Asyria, Egypt and other non-muSSlim lands. When these lands and people were conquered by the arab-muSSlims this science and innovation was absorbed. It didn't last (as can be seen by observation today) because iSSlam is a religion and culture that inhibits and prevents thought.
BTW,
Welome back, Skip'.
Not true, did you read the link ?
What I said IS true.
You should re-read the link because it backs up what I said.
During the early Muslim conquests, the Muslim Arabs led by Khalid ibn al-Walid conquered the Sassanid Persian Empire and more than half of the Byzantine Roman Empire, establishing the Arab Empire across the Middle East, Central Asia, and North Africa, followed by further expansions across Pakistan, southern Italy and the Iberian Peninsula. As a result, the Islamic governments inherited "the knowledge and skills of the ancient Middle East, of Greece, of Persia and of India.
Not really, they invented a lot, the fact they were inpiared by the other people they conquered (the Byzantine Roman Empire is not included because it infact, did nothing).
Arab-muSSlims couldn't invent a wooden club!
The knowledge and science base came from non-muSSlim people in non-muSSlim lands. NOTHING came from arab-muSSlim savages.
Look at iSSlam for the last few centuries. If muSSlims are so scientific, why did the whole iSSlamic world degenerate into the dark ages when the christian and Jewish worlds advanced?
Why does the iSSlamic world need to import doctors, engineers and other technical workers from the west to function if they're remotely capable of invention or inovation?
I said Muslims, didn't say Arab Muslims. But Arabs also invented things, after all the Islamic culture is based on the Arab culture. The Islamic world in it's golden age brought us only good, especially to Judaism, only because of the effect of the Islamic and Arabic philosophies we had rabbis as the Ramban, Shlomo Ibn Gvirol, Sa'adia Gaon and people as Binyamin Metulad and Yehuda HaLewi and so on and so on. The Muslim allowed the Jews to live in Jerusalem etc'.
If you were actually reading Bernard Louise books (that are always recommended here) you will understand what happend to the Islamic world and why he became static in the 13th century and suddenly got back to the 7th century. Especially read The Middle East and The Arabs in History. It's too long to write down the things that happened, but it's mostly because of the ideas the Christians world got from the Islamic world and in the same time movements as the Renaissance in the 14th century.
Listen, Newman. Every religion has it's era of fundamentalism, it happened to Judaism in the 1-2 century C.E. in Judea and to Christianity in the 10th-13th centuries C.E., now it's the era of the Islamic fundamentalism. It doesn't mean Islam was always like that, and Wahhabism didn't existed until the 18th century. Plus, Arab historions said in the Islamic golden age exactly what you say about Arabs, only they talked about the Northen-European people. I read in the book "The Middle East" about one Arab historion who listed the people who contributed to the world: "Greeks, Jews, Persians[...] only the fool, fat blond haired did nothing and can't have the sense/wisdom that normal people have" (quotation from the memory..).
That's a load of taqqiya you've been fed.
Every engineering, architectural and other inovation existed in the pre-iSSlamic lands before muSSlims ever set foot there.
If one studies history Dexter, you see that Jews and christians went FROM fundamentalism TO knowledge and enlightenment. NOBODY goes FROM knowledge and enlightenment TO fundamentalism and ignorance (as you claim the muSSlims have). The muSSlimculture and religion has ALWAYS been backward. The only reason for it's "golden age" was the boost from the knowledge that was WITHIN the non-muSSlim lands and people they conquered. After several generations of iSSlam, that knowledge and innovation died out because iSSlam stifles learning and thought.
I reapeat:
People and cultures go FROM ignorance and fundamentalism TO knowledge and enlightenment................NOT the other way around.
The reason iSSlam and muSSlims are fundamentalist and ignorant today is because the culture/religion has always been that way. If not for persian, greek, egyptian,indian and other non-muSSlim cultures there would have been NO golden age at all in iSSlam.
Read the wikipedia artical.
If you were correct, the technology of the 21th century have been created in the 10th century because we should have develope the Roman technology and not the Christian technology, which is not true. After the Barberian tribes destroyed the Roman empire the DESTROYED the engineering, architectural and cultural achivments of the Roman empire. There were no biuldings as there were in the Roman empire times until the Renaissance in the 14th century.
History moves in cyclicality way. It surly can't be pradicted but it always have the same structure. The idea of the ignorance and fundamentalism to knowledge and enlightenment has never proved itself. Even the Chinese who were most advenced people in a certein time on History suddenly stoped and moved off the stage for the Muslims and then to the post-Renaissance Christians.
The fact that europe rose AFTER barbarians destroyed Rome proves my point. FROM dark ages TO enlightenment. Even a set back such as the barbarian invasion, the black plague and other catastrophies DIDN'T stop european Judaic/christian advancements. If iSSlamic culture had ANY value or ability, nothing could stop it's advancement, either.
BTW, iSSlam NEVER conquered China. Chinese innovation stalled but didn't go backwards. The chinese did NOT 'malke way' for iSSlam out of coutesy! Chinese culture has now caught up, as has India's but iSSlam is still in the dark ages. It has NEVER changed in 1300 years.
-
The fact that europe rose AFTER barbarians destroyed Rome proves my point. FROM dark ages TO enlightenment. Even a set back such as the barbarian invasion, the black plague and other catastrophies DIDN'T stop european Judaic/christian advancements. If iSSlamic culture had ANY value or ability, nothing could stop it's advancement, either.
BTW, iSSlam NEVER conquered China. Chinese innovation stalled but didn't go backwards. The chinese did NOT 'malke way' for iSSlam out of coutesy! Chinese culture has now caught up, as has India's but iSSlam is still in the dark ages. It has NEVER changed in 1300 years.
It DIDN'T rose after the barbarians destroyed Rome, it rose 1000 YEARS later! That's why history moves in cyclicality way: Advenced(Romans)-Not Advence(Barberian)-Advenced(Post-post-Renaissance Christians--our days). You don't understand the fact that thing change, the Muslims didn't stayed strong as they were and the Christian world step-by-step became more advanced.
I didn't said the Muslims conquered China, the Chinese became stalled AND got backwards, there were no more Chinese philosophers, inventors etc', culture can't be just stalled, it's or forward or backward, if it's not forward, it's backward.
Infact the Chinese were (and are) more cruel then the Muslims.
-
The fact that europe rose AFTER barbarians destroyed Rome proves my point. FROM dark ages TO enlightenment. Even a set back such as the barbarian invasion, the black plague and other catastrophies DIDN'T stop european Judaic/christian advancements. If iSSlamic culture had ANY value or ability, nothing could stop it's advancement, either.
BTW, iSSlam NEVER conquered China. Chinese innovation stalled but didn't go backwards. The chinese did NOT 'malke way' for iSSlam out of coutesy! Chinese culture has now caught up, as has India's but iSSlam is still in the dark ages. It has NEVER changed in 1300 years.
It DIDN'T rose after the barbarians destroyed Rome, it rose 1000 YEARS later! That's why history moves in cyclicality way: Advenced(Romans)-Not Advence(Barberian)-Advenced(Post-post-Renaissance Christians--our days). You don't understand the fact that thing change, the Muslims didn't stayed strong as they were and the Christian world step-by-step became more advanced.
I didn't said the Muslims conquered China, the Chinese became stalled AND got backwards, there were no more Chinese philosophers, inventors etc', culture can't be just stalled, it's or forward or backward, if it's not forward, it's backward.
Infact the Chinese were (and are) more cruel then the Muslims.
Yes......europe had 1,000 years of dark ages THEN the enlightenment. FIRST barbarism THEN enlightenment.
iSSlam (according to you) had enlightenment first, then barbarism! This cannot happen and has NEVER happened to ANY culture unless it was invaded by savages. The only reason the enlightenment of the greeks and romans gave way to barbarism was the barbarian invasion. iSSlam was NEVER invaded by barbarians. muSSlims ARE the barbarians.
And of coarse nations can stall. China stopped moving forward technologically but it did not revert to the stoneage.
-
BTW,
The mongols were as cruel as muSSlims, the chinese couldn't come close.
-
BTW,
The mongols were as cruel as muSSlims, the chinese couldn't come close.
They are pretty much cut from the same cloth.
-
BTW,
The mongols were as cruel as muSSlims, the chinese couldn't come close.
They are pretty much cut from the same cloth.
But different nations, language, culture and ethnicity. Much like arabs and persians.
-
BTW,
The mongols were as cruel as muSSlims, the chinese couldn't come close.
They are pretty much cut from the same cloth.
But different nations, language, culture and ethnicity. Much like arabs and persians.
As they say "if you are born a street rat, you will die a street rat, and only your fleas will morn you". 8;)
And they are all rats, just in different streets O0
-
The fact that europe rose AFTER barbarians destroyed Rome proves my point. FROM dark ages TO enlightenment. Even a set back such as the barbarian invasion, the black plague and other catastrophies DIDN'T stop european Judaic/christian advancements. If iSSlamic culture had ANY value or ability, nothing could stop it's advancement, either.
BTW, iSSlam NEVER conquered China. Chinese innovation stalled but didn't go backwards. The chinese did NOT 'malke way' for iSSlam out of coutesy! Chinese culture has now caught up, as has India's but iSSlam is still in the dark ages. It has NEVER changed in 1300 years.
It DIDN'T rose after the barbarians destroyed Rome, it rose 1000 YEARS later! That's why history moves in cyclicality way: Advenced(Romans)-Not Advence(Barberian)-Advenced(Post-post-Renaissance Christians--our days). You don't understand the fact that thing change, the Muslims didn't stayed strong as they were and the Christian world step-by-step became more advanced.
I didn't said the Muslims conquered China, the Chinese became stalled AND got backwards, there were no more Chinese philosophers, inventors etc', culture can't be just stalled, it's or forward or backward, if it's not forward, it's backward.
Infact the Chinese were (and are) more cruel then the Muslims.
Yes......europe had 1,000 years of dark ages THEN the enlightenment. FIRST barbarism THEN enlightenment.
iSSlam (according to you) had enlightenment first, then barbarism! This cannot happen and has NEVER happened to ANY culture unless it was invaded by savages. The only reason the enlightenment of the greeks and romans gave way to barbarism was the barbarian invasion. iSSlam was NEVER invaded by barbarians. muSSlims ARE the barbarians.
And of coarse nations can stall. China stopped moving forward technologically but it did not revert to the stoneage.
No... Europe had 900 hundered years of Roman enlightenment days, then 1000 years of dark age and THEN the 14th-to-our-days enlightenment age.
Islam didn't had enlightenment age first, it took him 300 hundered years to get their golden age, and then it took 300 hundered years to them to become 7th century people. Infact only because of the Muslims we can today read Plato and other Greeks because they were the only one who kept the Greek writings.
Nations can't stall. Chinastopped moving forward technologically and culturaly, the Muslims didn't move backward by technology, just culturaly.
-
The fact that europe rose AFTER barbarians destroyed Rome proves my point. FROM dark ages TO enlightenment. Even a set back such as the barbarian invasion, the black plague and other catastrophies DIDN'T stop european Judaic/christian advancements. If iSSlamic culture had ANY value or ability, nothing could stop it's advancement, either.
BTW, iSSlam NEVER conquered China. Chinese innovation stalled but didn't go backwards. The chinese did NOT 'malke way' for iSSlam out of coutesy! Chinese culture has now caught up, as has India's but iSSlam is still in the dark ages. It has NEVER changed in 1300 years.
It DIDN'T rose after the barbarians destroyed Rome, it rose 1000 YEARS later! That's why history moves in cyclicality way: Advenced(Romans)-Not Advence(Barberian)-Advenced(Post-post-Renaissance Christians--our days). You don't understand the fact that thing change, the Muslims didn't stayed strong as they were and the Christian world step-by-step became more advanced.
I didn't said the Muslims conquered China, the Chinese became stalled AND got backwards, there were no more Chinese philosophers, inventors etc', culture can't be just stalled, it's or forward or backward, if it's not forward, it's backward.
Infact the Chinese were (and are) more cruel then the Muslims.
Yes......europe had 1,000 years of dark ages THEN the enlightenment. FIRST barbarism THEN enlightenment.
iSSlam (according to you) had enlightenment first, then barbarism! This cannot happen and has NEVER happened to ANY culture unless it was invaded by savages. The only reason the enlightenment of the greeks and romans gave way to barbarism was the barbarian invasion. iSSlam was NEVER invaded by barbarians. muSSlims ARE the barbarians.
And of coarse nations can stall. China stopped moving forward technologically but it did not revert to the stoneage.
No... Europe had 900 hundered years of Roman enlightenment days, then 1000 years of dark age and THEN the 14th-to-our-days enlightenment age.
Europe went into the dark ages because of a barbarian invasion. From there it went forward.
Islam didn't had enlightenment age first, it took him 300 hundered years to get their golden age, and then it took 300 hundered years to them to become 7th century people.
The muSSlims (unlike europe) had NO barbarian invasian and STILL descended into barbarism. What's their excuse?
Infact only because of the Muslims we can today read Plato and other Greeks because they were the only one who kept the Greek writings.
Oh great. ONE thing they didn't manage to destroy!
Nations can't stall. China stopped moving forward technologically and culturaly,
To stop moving forward IS 'stalling'. Anthropologists call the australian aborigines an 'arrested culture'. That means it stood still and didn't move forward. It doesn't mean it went in reverse.
the Muslims didn't move backward by technology, just culturaly.
The muSSlims couldn't go backwards technologically because they NEVER had technology of their own. All they 'invented' was by non-muSSlim cultures and peoples. They were near stone-age then. They are near stone-age now. No difference.
The bottom line is the muSSlims would be NOTHING and have done NOTHING without the gifts of the non-muSSlim greeks, persians ans hindus. Europe overcame the barbarian invasion, the black death and other catastrophies to lead the world.
Judaic/christian europe moves forward. iSSlam was primative, is primative and will ALWAYS be primative.
-
Muslims used to be advanced during The European Dark Ages. They had brilliant Jews that worked for them as well. But Chaim says this was possible because Islam had not yet fully set in in the whole Muslim World.
JEWS...not iSSlam/muSSlimiacs.
8;)
-
As Chaim (along with most reputable historians) has said on many occasions, iSSlamic "science and innovation" is a fraud. The original muSSlims were arabs who invented NOTHING. Great science and architecture existed in NON-muSSlim Persia, Asyria, Egypt and other non-muSSlim lands. When these lands and people were conquered by the arab-muSSlims this science and innovation was absorbed. It didn't last (as can be seen by observation today) because iSSlam is a religion and culture that inhibits and prevents thought.
BTW,
Welome back, Skip'.
That's true, and welcome back Skippy for the moment I fear it was Sherry the camel humper geting here... ;)
-
Europe was staring to recover economicly from the end of X century when the Viking/Norman and Hungarian raids stoped, becouse the greeco-roman knowledge was already there hiden in monasteries and when last of barbarians settled it could be retrived and used again; so already in XIII centuries Europeans were building gothic cathedras higher than any roman biuldings, And Muslimes yes were "good" for some Jews becouse they needed MDs, administrators, merchants just like they need wetern engineers now to operate their oil fields; in reality ME outside Arabia was populated by mayority of those greek, armenian, persian, jewish dhimis who supported by taxes and expertise the ruling muslime warior aristocracy untill Crusades. After them Muslimes have made the purges and were the mayority ending the golden age. Ever wonder why muslime world never manged to recover the "golden Age" after Mongol invasions in XIII/XIV centuries?
-
As Chaim (along with most reputable historians) has said on many occasions, iSSlamic "science and innovation" is a fraud. The original muSSlims were arabs who invented NOTHING. Great science and architecture existed in NON-muSSlim Persia, Asyria, Egypt and other non-muSSlim lands. When these lands and people were conquered by the arab-muSSlims this science and innovation was absorbed. It didn't last (as can be seen by observation today) because iSSlam is a religion and culture that inhibits and prevents thought.
BTW,
Welome back, Skip'.
That's true, and welcome back Skippy for the moment I fear it was Sherry the camel humper geting here... ;)
I would never let that happen Ultra ;)
-
Europe went into the dark ages because of a barbarian invasion. From there it went forward.
Thank you for proving my point.
The muSSlims (unlike europe) had NO barbarian invasian and STILL descended into barbarism. What's their excuse?
The history of Islamic defeats at the hands of the West--in trade, technology, printing, science, philosophy, political development, modernization, diplomacy, war--stretches back 600 years. In 1502 Venice warned the Ottoman Sultans of the threat posed to the spice trade by the sea route Vasco de Gama had opened up between Europe and Asia. The Ottomans ignored the warning, just as they ignored many other problems, and the Muslim East eventually felt the results.
Simply, the rise of the west made Islam to sink. In the book The Middle East Bernard Lewis - one of the best Arabists and Islamists in the world says himself the Islamic world was much more advanced then the Europeans, especially because of the what the Muslim created as a result of the meeting of the Arab rich culture and other ancient middle east cultures.
Though the Chinese invented saltpetre gunpowder, and used it in their fireworks, it was the Arabs who worked out that it could be purified using potassium nitrate for military use. Muslim incendiary devices terrified the Crusaders. By the 15th century they had invented both a rocket, which they called a "self-moving and combusting egg", and a torpedo - a self-propelled pear-shaped bomb with a spear at the front which impaled itself in enemy ships and then blew up.
By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere. The proof, said astronomer Ibn Hazm, "is that the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth". It was 500 years before that realisation dawned on Galileo. The calculations of Muslim astronomers were so accurate that in the 9th century they reckoned the Earth's circumference to be 40,253.4km - less than 200km out. The scholar al-Idrisi took a globe depicting the world to the court of King Roger of Sicily in 1139.
The modern cheque comes from the Arabic saqq, a written vow to pay for goods when they were delivered, to avoid money having to be transported across dangerous terrain. In the 9th century, a Muslim businessman could cash a cheque in China drawn on his bank in Baghdad.
Carpets were regarded as part of Paradise by medieval Muslims, thanks to their advanced weaving techniques, new tinctures from Islamic chemistry and highly developed sense of pattern and arabesque which were the basis of Islam's non-representational art. In contrast, Europe's floors were distinctly earthly, not to say earthy, until Arabian and Persian carpets were introduced. In England, as Erasmus recorded, floors were "covered in rushes, occasionally renewed, but so imperfectly that the bottom layer is left undisturbed, sometimes for 20 years, harbouring expectoration, vomiting, the leakage of dogs and men, ale droppings, scraps of fish, and other abominations not fit to be mentioned". Carpets, unsurprisingly, caught on quickly.
and there are more and more...
Read here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-islamic-inventors-changed-the-world-469452.html
Oh great. ONE thing they didn't manage to destroy!
:D
A form of chess was played in ancient India but the game was developed into the form we know it today in Persia. From there it spread westward to Europe - where it was introduced by the Moors in Spain in the 10th century - and eastward as far as Japan. The word rook comes from the Persian rukh, which means chariot.
A thousand years before the Wright brothers a Muslim poet, astronomer, musician and engineer named Abbas ibn Firnas made several attempts to construct a flying machine. In 852 he jumped from the minaret of the Grand Mosque in Cordoba using a loose cloak stiffened with wooden struts. He hoped to glide like a bird. He didn't. But the cloak slowed his fall, creating what is thought to be the first parachute, and leaving him with only minor injuries. In 875, aged 70, having perfected a machine of silk and eagles' feathers he tried again, jumping from a mountain. He flew to a significant height and stayed aloft for ten minutes but crashed on landing - concluding, correctly, that it was because he had not given his device a tail so it would stall on landing. Baghdad international airport and a crater on the Moon are named after him.
To stop moving forward IS 'stalling'. Anthropologists call the australian aborigines an 'arrested culture'. That means it stood still and didn't move forward. It doesn't mean it went in reverse.
Really, stop capitalize the words, it doesn't make you more correct or less correct.
The Australian aborigines culture is 'arrested culture' because they didn't developed a thing but got stucked in the tribal culture, the Chinese didn't so when their culture don't advance, it goes backward.
The Muslims couldn't go backwards technologically because they NEVER had technology of their own. All they 'invented' was by non-muSSlim cultures and peoples. They were near stonework then. They are near stone-age now. No difference.
This is nonsense! Stop being blind to history because of your hatred to Islam.
Europe was staring to recover economical from the end of X century when the Viking/Norman and Hungarian raids stoped, becouse the greeco-roman knowledge was already there hiden in monasteries and when last of barbarians settled it could be retrived and used again; so already in XIII centuries Europeans were building gothic cathedras higher than any roman biuldings, And Muslimes yes were "good" for some Jews becouse they needed MDs, administrators, merchants just like they need wetern engineers now to operate their oil fields; in reality ME outside Arabia was populated by mayority of those greek, armenian, persian, jewish dhimis who supported by taxes and expertise the ruling muslime warior aristocracy untill Crusades. After them Muslimes have made the purges and were the mayority ending the golden age. Ever wonder why muslime world never manged to recover the "golden Age" after Mongol invasions in XIII/XIV centuries?
I am talking about the 5th century Barbarian invasion, infact the Vikings helped Europe in some ways. The Gothic architecture was the only style that was European made. The Mongol invasion never stopped the Islamic golden age, it actually helped it. When the golden horde converted to Islam and other Mongols tried to take over Egypt it made to Muslims influenced and they started to advance, it's actually good the Arabs stopped them otherwise those Mongols would have probably ruin Jerusalem. Just to refrash your memory, the Mongol invasion started at the 11 century and ended at the 12-13, the Muslim golden age finished in the 14th-15th century or even the 16 century because then the Ottoman empire started to lose from it's power.
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Europe went into the dark ages because of a barbarian invasion. From there it went forward.
Thank you for proving my point.
It proves MY point. Europe didn't just go backwards (from Roman times) of it's own accord. An external catastrophy brought it on in the form of barbarian conquest.
The muSSlims (unlike europe) had NO barbarian invasian and STILL descended into barbarism. What's their excuse?
The history of Islamic defeats at the hands of the West--in trade, technology, printing, science, philosophy, political development, modernization, diplomacy, war--stretches back 600 years. In 1502 Venice warned the Ottoman Sultans of the threat posed to the spice trade by the sea route Vasco de Gama had opened up between Europe and Asia. The Ottomans ignored the warning, just as they ignored many other problems, and the Muslim East eventually felt the results.
Simply, the rise of the west made Islam to sink. In the book The Middle East Bernard Lewis - one of the best Arabists and Islamists in the world says himself the Islamic world was much more advanced then the Europeans, especially because of the what the Muslim created as a result of the meeting of the Arab rich culture and other ancient middle east cultures.
That is the most illogical nonsense I've read from you. The 'rise' of one culture CANNOT make another decsend into the dark ages unless that new culture invades, occupies and destroys the other totally (as the barbarians did to Rome). The rise of the west is NOT responsible for the 'decline' of iSSlam. Ask yourself this: If your neighbour gets rich tomorrow, does your family get poor?
Though the Chinese invented saltpetre gunpowder, and used it in their fireworks, it was the Arabs who worked out that it could be purified using potassium nitrate for military use. Muslim incendiary devices terrified the Crusaders. By the 15th century they had invented both a rocket, which they called a "self-moving and combusting egg", and a torpedo - a self-propelled pear-shaped bomb with a spear at the front which impaled itself in enemy ships and then blew up.
By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere. The proof, said astronomer Ibn Hazm, "is that the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth". It was 500 years before that realisation dawned on Galileo. The calculations of Muslim astronomers were so accurate that in the 9th century they reckoned the Earth's circumference to be 40,253.4km - less than 200km out. The scholar al-Idrisi took a globe depicting the world to the court of King Roger of Sicily in 1139.
The modern cheque comes from the Arabic saqq, a written vow to pay for goods when they were delivered, to avoid money having to be transported across dangerous terrain. In the 9th century, a Muslim businessman could cash a cheque in China drawn on his bank in Baghdad.
Carpets were regarded as part of Paradise by medieval Muslims, thanks to their advanced weaving techniques, new tinctures from Islamic chemistry and highly developed sense of pattern and arabesque which were the basis of Islam's non-representational art. In contrast, Europe's floors were distinctly earthly, not to say earthy, until Arabian and Persian carpets were introduced. In England, as Erasmus recorded, floors were "covered in rushes, occasionally renewed, but so imperfectly that the bottom layer is left undisturbed, sometimes for 20 years, harbouring expectoration, vomiting, the leakage of dogs and men, ale droppings, scraps of fish, and other abominations not fit to be mentioned". Carpets, unsurprisingly, caught on quickly.
and there are more and more...
Read here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-islamic-inventors-changed-the-world-469452.html
Oh great. ONE thing they didn't manage to destroy!
:D
A form of chess was played in ancient India but the game was developed into the form we know it today in Persia. From there it spread westward to Europe - where it was introduced by the Moors in Spain in the 10th century - and eastward as far as Japan. The word rook comes from the Persian rukh, which means chariot.
A thousand years before the Wright brothers a Muslim poet, astronomer, musician and engineer named Abbas ibn Firnas made several attempts to construct a flying machine. In 852 he jumped from the minaret of the Grand Mosque in Cordoba using a loose cloak stiffened with wooden struts. He hoped to glide like a bird. He didn't. But the cloak slowed his fall, creating what is thought to be the first parachute, and leaving him with only minor injuries. In 875, aged 70, having perfected a machine of silk and eagles' feathers he tried again, jumping from a mountain. He flew to a significant height and stayed aloft for ten minutes but crashed on landing - concluding, correctly, that it was because he had not given his device a tail so it would stall on landing. Baghdad international airport and a crater on the Moon are named after him.
Judaism already knew the Earth was round.
You can rattle of a list as long as you like of iSSlamic 'discoveries' but the fact is most of them were already in place in non-iSSlamic lands before iSSlam conquered them. Without the gifts of Greece, India, Persia and Egypt iSSlam would never have moved out of the 7th century.
To stop moving forward IS 'stalling'. Anthropologists call the australian aborigines an 'arrested culture'. That means it stood still and didn't move forward. It doesn't mean it went in reverse.
Really, stop capitalize the words, it doesn't make you more correct or less correct.
The Australian aborigines culture is 'arrested culture' because they didn't developed a thing but got stucked in the tribal culture, the Chinese didn't so when their culture don't advance, it goes backward.
No. Going forwards is advancing, going backwards is retreating, not moving either way is stalling. That's common logic. It applies to abbos, chinese AND arabs.
The Muslims couldn't go backwards technologically because they NEVER had technology of their own. All they 'invented' was by non-muSSlim cultures and peoples. They were near stonework then. They are near stone-age now. No difference.
This is nonsense! Stop being blind to history because of your hatred to Islam.
No. You stop being so naive as to swallow taqqiya. The main body of historical schollars the world over have debunked the myths of iSSlamic innovation. It is a fraud just as the myth of black african 'civilisation'.
Europe was staring to recover economical from the end of X century when the Viking/Norman and Hungarian raids stoped, becouse the greeco-roman knowledge was already there hiden in monasteries and when last of barbarians settled it could be retrived and used again; so already in XIII centuries Europeans were building gothic cathedras higher than any roman biuldings, And Muslimes yes were "good" for some Jews becouse they needed MDs, administrators, merchants just like they need wetern engineers now to operate their oil fields; in reality ME outside Arabia was populated by mayority of those greek, armenian, persian, jewish dhimis who supported by taxes and expertise the ruling muslime warior aristocracy untill Crusades. After them Muslimes have made the purges and were the mayority ending the golden age. Ever wonder why muslime world never manged to recover the "golden Age" after Mongol invasions in XIII/XIV centuries?
I am talking about the 5th century Barbarian invasion, infact the Vikings helped Europe in some ways. The Gothic architecture was the only style that was European made. The Mongol invasion never stopped the Islamic golden age, it actually helped it. When the golden horde converted to Islam and other Mongols tried to take over Egypt it made to Muslims influenced and they started to advance, it's actually good the Arabs stopped them otherwise those Mongols would have probably ruin Jerusalem. Just to refrash your memory, the Mongol invasion started at the 11 century and ended at the 12-13, the Muslim golden age finished in the 14th-15th century or even the 16 century because then the Ottoman empire started to lose from it's power.
The bottom line here is historical evidence as well as common sense and logic.
NO civilisation in the history has risen up to great heights of learning and wisdom and then retreated into savagery of it's own accord. Civilisations that declined did so because of external invasion and destruction like the Romans and Egyptions. Others simply marked time and stood still for a period like China.
iSSlam on the other hand was NOT invaded or desroyed by barbarians. Yes the mongols gave them a bloody nose but not to the extent that the barbarians did to Rome. Nor did iSSlam simply stand still like China. iSSlam was a primative, savage culture adopted by primative savages. It milked the intellectual benefits from non-muSSlims that it conquered. Because iSSlam stifles thinking it could not maintain it's supposed 'golden age' because the non-muSSlim people it conquered were now affected by the same poison. Simple.
iSSlam is like a lazy ignorant bum who lives in poverty and achieves nothing. He then inherits a business from a dead brother. He milks the business and does well for ten or fifteen years but eventually destroys the business because he is a lazy bum. He then goes back into poverty.
That's iSSlam.
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It proves MY point. Europe didn't just go backwards (from Roman times) of it's own accord. An external catastrophy brought it on in the form of barbarian conquest.
It went backwards to the time BEFOR the Roman times, when the Italian, German and Celtic tribes fought each other.
That is the most illogical nonsense I've read from you. The 'rise' of one culture CANNOT make another decsend into the dark ages unless that new culture invades, occupies and destroys the other totally (as the barbarians did to Rome). The rise of the west is NOT responsible for the 'decline' of iSSlam. Ask yourself this: If your neighbour gets rich tomorrow, does your family get poor?
Please, stop being so "logical" because your logic is destroying the historical facts. When a cultural center becomes stronger then the other cultural center, that is it's enemy, the stronger make the other cultural center as a far-flung place in the world, ecomomiclly, culturally and others. When Islam rose it stopped the west of advencing BECAUSE of the war between those cultures that never let the weasterns, who were inferior culturaly from the beggining, going forward.
Judaism already knew the Earth was round.
No, it didn't until the 13th century. I was talking about the diameter of the earth.
You can rattle of a list as long as you like of iSSlamic 'discoveries' but the fact is most of them were already in place in non-iSSlamic lands before iSSlam conquered them. Without the gifts of Greece, India, Persia and Egypt iSSlam would never have moved out of the 7th century.
I have no doubt, but no metter what you can't deny the Islamic science, no one can argue with facts!
No. Going forwards is advancing, going backwards is retreating, not moving either way is stalling. That's common logic. It applies to abbos, chinese AND arabs.
The bottom line here is historical evidence as well as common sense and logic.
There is no such thing as "stalling" unless you live in a lone cave in a middle of a jongel.
The Chinese had a golden age. The Chinese golden age in the Tang Dynasty (618-907) describes a period of peace when arts, trade, and literature prospered.
In addition to natural calamities and jiedushi amassing autonomous control, the Huang Chao Rebellion (875–884) resulted in the sacking of both Chang'an and Luoyang, and took an entire decade to suppress. Although the rebellion was defeated by the Tang, it never recovered from that crucial blow, weakening it for the future military powers to take over. There were also large groups of bandits, in the size of small armies, that ravaged the countryside in the last years of the Tang, who smuggled illicit salt, ambushed merchants and convoys, and even besieged several walled cities.
A certain Zhu Wen (originally a salt smuggler) who had served under the rebel Huang had later surrendered to Tang forces, his military merit in betraying and defeating Huang's forces meaning rapid military promotions for him. In 907, after almost 300 years in power, the dynasty was ended when this military governor, Zhu Wen (known soon after as Taizu of Later Liang), deposed the last emperor of Tang, Emperor Ai of Tang, and took the throne for himself. He established his Later Liang Dynasty, which thereby inaugurated the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period. A year later, the deposed Emperor Ai was poisoned to death by Zhu Wen.
Although cast in a negative light by many for usurping power from the Tang, Zhu Wen turned out to be a skilled administrator. Emperor Taizu of Later Liang was also responsible for the building of a large seawall, new walls and roads for the burgeoning city of Hangzhou, which would later become the capital of the Southern Song Dynasty.
After that the Chinese were back to times befor the golden age and only 300-400 years later the mongolian invasion changed it and made Chinese back on the king's road. Ah, and, please stop talking about "History evidences" while you haven't provided a single, one, historical evidence for your claims.
No. You stop being so naive as to swallow taqqiya. The main body of historical schollars the world over have debunked the myths of iSSlamic innovation. It is a fraud just as the myth of black african 'civilisation'.
"No-No", "Taqqiya", "Taqqiya", as usaual.
NO civilisation in the history has risen up to great heights of learning and wisdom and then retreated into savagery of it's own accord. Civilisations that declined did so because of external invasion and destruction like the Romans and Egyptions. Others simply marked time and stood still for a period like China.
iSSlam on the other hand was NOT invaded or desroyed by barbarians. Yes the mongols gave them a bloody nose but not to the extent that the barbarians did to Rome. Nor did iSSlam simply stand still like China. iSSlam was a primative, savage culture adopted by primative savages. It milked the intellectual benefits from non-muSSlims that it conquered. Because iSSlam stifles thinking it could not maintain it's supposed 'golden age' because the non-muSSlim people it conquered were now affected by the same poison. Simple.
iSSlam is like a lazy ignorant bum who lives in poverty and achieves nothing. He then inherits a business from a dead brother. He milks the business and does well for ten or fifteen years but eventually destroys the business because he is a lazy bum. He then goes back into poverty.
That's iSSlam.
The Islamic and the European civilisations did!! The thing is you refuse to understand it!!
Newman, you didn't gave any historical evidences for your claims, that are wronged and were disproved by me and are disproved by many historions as-well as experts in Middle Eastern affairs as Bernard Lewis and Bat Ye'or. I already expleind to you what happend to Islam after the 13 -16/17 century. When Wahabbism rais Islam completly got back to the 7th century, befor that it still was in pretty good situation especielly in the Ottoman empire. When I said the Mongols helped the Islamic golden age I was wrong, the Mongolian invasion (HERE IS YOU INVASION!) was one of the reasons the Islamic world started to sink. Islamic Spain was intellectually lively but politically chaotic Dictator AlMansur played off aristocracy, mercenary soldiers and slave bureaucracy against each other. After his death, Spain collapsed into revolt and civil war, and fragmented into small states. the advancing of Christian Spain facilitated. Eastern Islam moved away from rationalist theology toward mysticism, as the rise of Sufism. Sack of Baghdad destroyed the greatest remaining Islamic cultural centers. Death of Caliph a shattering blow to Islamic self-confidence, the loss of Caliphate meant loss of unifying force in Islam
Your claims are bias and show your lack on knowledge of Islam and it's history. The Mongol invasion of the Islamic heartland had mixed effects. On one hand, the Islamic world never regained its previous power. Much of the six centuries of Islamic scholarship, culture, and infrastructure was destroyed as the invaders burned libraries, replaced mosques with Buddhist temples, and destroyed intricate irrigation systems. In fact, the irrigation equipment necessary for farming in the Mesopotamian desert was not rebuilt until the 20th century. Additionally, Gaykhatu's attempt to introduce paper money at the end of the 13th century virtually destroyed trade in the region, from which it was difficult to recover.
Here is a map:
http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/imageislam/hulagu1294.gif
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It proves MY point. Europe didn't just go backwards (from Roman times) of it's own accord. An external catastrophy brought it on in the form of barbarian conquest.
It went backwards to the time BEFOR the Roman times, when the Italian, German and Celtic tribes fought each other.
It went backwards because of an invasion by barbarians, not because of it's own stupid ideology like iSSlam did.
That is the most illogical nonsense I've read from you. The 'rise' of one culture CANNOT make another decsend into the dark ages unless that new culture invades, occupies and destroys the other totally (as the barbarians did to Rome). The rise of the west is NOT responsible for the 'decline' of iSSlam. Ask yourself this: If your neighbour gets rich tomorrow, does your family get poor?
Please, stop being so "logical" because your logic is destroying the historical facts. When a cultural center becomes stronger then the other cultural center, that is it's enemy, the stronger make the other cultural center as a far-flung place in the world, ecomomiclly, culturally and others. When Islam rose it stopped the west of advencing BECAUSE of the war between those cultures that never let the weasterns, who were inferior culturaly from the beggining, going forward.
Wrong again. Asia has been getting economically stronger but the west is not going back to the 15th century.
Judaism already knew the Earth was round.
No, it didn't until the 13th century. I was talking about the diameter of the earth.
You can rattle of a list as long as you like of iSSlamic 'discoveries' but the fact is most of them were already in place in non-iSSlamic lands before iSSlam conquered them. Without the gifts of Greece, India, Persia and Egypt iSSlam would never have moved out of the 7th century.
I have no doubt, but no metter what you can't deny the Islamic science, no one can argue with facts!
Nobody denies the fact that iSSlam had a golden age. But it's because of non-muSSlims that they conquered not because of muSSlims.
No. Going forwards is advancing, going backwards is retreating, not moving either way is stalling. That's common logic. It applies to abbos, chinese AND arabs.
The bottom line here is historical evidence as well as common sense and logic.
There is no such thing as "stalling" unless you live in a lone cave in a middle of a jongel.
Yes there is. When you learn to drive you'll discover there is forward, neutral and reverse.
The Chinese had a golden age. The Chinese golden age in the Tang Dynasty (618-907) describes a period of peace when arts, trade, and literature prospered.
In addition to natural calamities and jiedushi amassing autonomous control, the Huang Chao Rebellion (875–884) resulted in the sacking of both Chang'an and Luoyang, and took an entire decade to suppress. Although the rebellion was defeated by the Tang, it never recovered from that crucial blow, weakening it for the future military powers to take over. There were also large groups of bandits, in the size of small armies, that ravaged the countryside in the last years of the Tang, who smuggled illicit salt, ambushed merchants and convoys, and even besieged several walled cities.
A certain Zhu Wen (originally a salt smuggler) who had served under the rebel Huang had later surrendered to Tang forces, his military merit in betraying and defeating Huang's forces meaning rapid military promotions for him. In 907, after almost 300 years in power, the dynasty was ended when this military governor, Zhu Wen (known soon after as Taizu of Later Liang), deposed the last emperor of Tang, Emperor Ai of Tang, and took the throne for himself. He established his Later Liang Dynasty, which thereby inaugurated the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period. A year later, the deposed Emperor Ai was poisoned to death by Zhu Wen.
Although cast in a negative light by many for usurping power from the Tang, Zhu Wen turned out to be a skilled administrator. Emperor Taizu of Later Liang was also responsible for the building of a large seawall, new walls and roads for the burgeoning city of Hangzhou, which would later become the capital of the Southern Song Dynasty.
After that the Chinese were back to times befor the golden age and only 300-400 years later the mongolian invasion changed it and made Chinese back on the king's road. Ah, and, please stop talking about "History evidences" while you haven't provided a single, one, historical evidence for your claims.
I don't need to spend hours plucking quotes from the web. A quote from a web page is not proof but just another opinion. I along with the other members here have seen enough documentaries on pay-TV, read enough history books and heard enough historians discuss this issue to know the real truth. Those of us who are dry behind the ears can tell taqqiya from fact.
No. You stop being so naive as to swallow taqqiya. The main body of historical schollars the world over have debunked the myths of iSSlamic innovation. It is a fraud just as the myth of black african 'civilisation'.
"No-No", "Taqqiya", "Taqqiya", as usaual.
NO civilisation in the history has risen up to great heights of learning and wisdom and then retreated into savagery of it's own accord. Civilisations that declined did so because of external invasion and destruction like the Romans and Egyptions. Others simply marked time and stood still for a period like China.
iSSlam on the other hand was NOT invaded or desroyed by barbarians. Yes the mongols gave them a bloody nose but not to the extent that the barbarians did to Rome. Nor did iSSlam simply stand still like China. iSSlam was a primative, savage culture adopted by primative savages. It milked the intellectual benefits from non-muSSlims that it conquered. Because iSSlam stifles thinking it could not maintain it's supposed 'golden age' because the non-muSSlim people it conquered were now affected by the same poison. Simple.
iSSlam is like a lazy ignorant bum who lives in poverty and achieves nothing. He then inherits a business from a dead brother. He milks the business and does well for ten or fifteen years but eventually destroys the business because he is a lazy bum. He then goes back into poverty.
That's iSSlam.
The Islamic and the European civilisations did!! The thing is you refuse to understand it!!
I repeat:Europe went backwards because of an invasion by barbarians, not because of it's own stupid ideology like iSSlam did
Newman, you didn't gave any historical evidences for your claims, that are wronged and were disproved by me and are disproved by many historions as-well as experts in Middle Eastern affairs as Bernard Lewis and Bat Ye'or.
I repeat: I don't need to spend hours plucking quotes from the web. A quote from a web page is not proof but just another opinion. I along with the other members here have seen enough documentaries on pay-TV, read enough history books and heard enough historians discuss this issue to know the real truth. Those of us who are dry behind the ears can tell taqqiya from fact.
I already expleind to you what happend to Islam after the 13 -16/17 century. When Wahabbism rais Islam completly got back to the 7th century, befor that it still was in pretty good situation especielly in the Ottoman empire. When I said the Mongols helped the Islamic golden age I was wrong, the Mongolian invasion (HERE IS YOU INVASION!) was one of the reasons the Islamic world started to sink. Islamic Spain was intellectually lively but politically chaotic Dictator AlMansur played off aristocracy, mercenary soldiers and slave bureaucracy against each other. After his death, Spain collapsed into revolt and civil war, and fragmented into small states. the advancing of Christian Spain facilitated. Eastern Islam moved away from rationalist theology toward mysticism, as the rise of Sufism. Sack of Baghdad destroyed the greatest remaining Islamic cultural centers. Death of Caliph a shattering blow to Islamic self-confidence, the loss of Caliphate meant loss of unifying force in Islam
There was no unity amongst Europeans..........but they did OK.
Your claims are bias and show your lack on knowledge of Islam and it's history. The Mongol invasion of the Islamic heartland had mixed effects. On one hand, the Islamic world never regained its previous power. Much of the six centuries of Islamic scholarship, culture, and infrastructure was destroyed as the invaders burned libraries, replaced mosques with Buddhist temples, and destroyed intricate irrigation systems. In fact, the irrigation equipment necessary for farming in the Mesopotamian desert was not rebuilt until the 20th century. Additionally, Gaykhatu's attempt to introduce paper money at the end of the 13th century virtually destroyed trade in the region, from which it was difficult to recover.
Europe has had wars, plagues, purges.......you name it. An intellectually capable people recover from set backs. A superior culture overcomes catastrophies in time. Europe has, iSSlam has not. Why? Because it is an inferior culture.
Here is a map:
http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/imageislam/hulagu1294.gif
Dexter, The leftist teachers in Israel need to be killed before they brainwash everybody else!
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It went backwards because of an invasion by barbarians, not because of it's own stupid ideology like iSSlam did.
Islam also went back because of the Mongol invasion and other things that happend.
Wrong again. Asia has been getting economically stronger but the west is not going back to the 15th century.
The parts of Asia that get stronger, get stronger because they hold in the weastern culture. Asian states that don't have Weastern culture in terms of productivity and other aspects are faltering states.
Nobody denies the fact that iSSlam had a golden age. But it's because of non-muSSlims that they conquered not because of muSSlims.
It's both, don't forget that the people they conquered went through Arabization and converted to Islam and became, infact, Arabs.
Yes there is. When you learn to drive you'll discover there is forward, neutral and reverse.
That's the best claim and analogy I've ever heard, way the go!
I don't need to spend hours plucking quotes from the web. A quote from a web page is not proof but just another opinion. I along with the other members here have seen enough documentaries on pay-TV, read enough history books and heard enough historians discuss this issue to know the real truth. Those of us who are dry behind the ears can tell taqqiya from fact.
Well, Mr. Newman, disprove it!
I repeat:Europe went backwards because of an invasion by barbarians, not because of it's own stupid ideology like iSSlam did
I repeat as well: Islam went backwards because of an invasion by the Mongols and other reasons.
I repeat: I don't need to spend hours plucking quotes from the web. A quote from a web page is not proof but just another opinion. I along with the other members here have seen enough documentaries on pay-TV, read enough history books and heard enough historians discuss this issue to know the real truth. Those of us who are dry behind the ears can tell taqqiya from fact.
This are not opinions, it's facts. At least give me a proofe for you claims...
There was no unity amongst Europeans..........but they did OK.
The Muslims didn't.
Europe has had wars, plagues, purges.......you name it. An intellectually capable people recover from set backs. A superior culture overcomes catastrophies in time. Europe has, iSSlam has not. Why? Because it is an inferior culture.
Islam recovered of Muhammad's tribal culture, now it needs to become modern, the fact that we live in a time after the weastern recovered and Islam sank doesn't mean that in the future the opposite will happen, you'll never know.
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The only one that brainwashed me is Bernard Lewis.
We don't studie about Muslims at all.
-
The only one that brainwashed me is Bernard Lewis.
We don't studie about Muslims at all.
May be you should, know thy enemy.
-
The only one that brainwashed me is Bernard Lewis.
We don't studie about Muslims at all.
May be you should, know thy enemy.
The teachers will say they are our freinds, I know my leftists teachers. We studie about Europe only from the French revulotion to these days.
-
The only one that brainwashed me is Bernard Lewis.
We don't studie about Muslims at all.
May be you should, know thy enemy.
The teachers will say they are our freinds, I know my leftists teachers. We studie about Europe only from the French revulotion to these days.
How can you understand Europe, let stand the Jewish history in Europe, if you only study after 1789?!?!
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The only one that brainwashed me is Bernard Lewis.
We don't studie about Muslims at all.
May be you should, know thy enemy.
The teachers will say they are our freinds, I know my leftists teachers. We studie about Europe only from the French revulotion to these days.
How can you understand Europe, let stand the Jewish history in Europe, if you only study after 1789?!?!
Good question, I have no answere. I studie history myself, I don't know what other people do.
-
It went backwards because of an invasion by barbarians, not because of it's own stupid ideology like iSSlam did.
Islam also went back because of the Mongol invasion and other things that happend.
Wrong again. Asia has been getting economically stronger but the west is not going back to the 15th century.
The parts of Asia that get stronger, get stronger because they hold in the weastern culture. Asian states that don't have Weastern culture in terms of productivity and other aspects are faltering states.
1/ That proves western cultural superiority.
2/ It still demonstrates that one culture getting stronger doesn't make another one go backward 500 years unless it attacks it.
Nobody denies the fact that iSSlam had a golden age. But it's because of non-muSSlims that they conquered not because of muSSlims.
It's both, don't forget that the people they conquered went through Arabization and converted to Islam and became, infact, Arabs.
That's why after several generations all the science and learning disappeared, those once learned non-muSSlim people were culturally poisoned by iSSlam.
BTW, People cannot change race, only religion. Indonesians are muSSlim-nazis but not arabs. Same for pakrapistanis.
Yes there is. When you learn to drive you'll discover there is forward, neutral and reverse.
That's the best claim and analogy I've ever heard, way the go!
It's a simple but sound analogy.
I don't need to spend hours plucking quotes from the web. A quote from a web page is not proof but just another opinion. I along with the other members here have seen enough documentaries on pay-TV, read enough history books and heard enough historians discuss this issue to know the real truth. Those of us who are dry behind the ears can tell taqqiya from fact.
Well, Mr. Newman, disprove it!
One cannot prove or disprove anything by printing out other peoples opinions. People come on this forum printing out quotes, facts and figures to prove 'the holocaust never happened' but does it prove it? Pedophiles can print out web pages that claim it is 'beneficial for children to have sex with adults before age 8'! Does that 'prove' them right?
I repeat:Europe went backwards because of an invasion by barbarians, not because of it's own stupid ideology like iSSlam did
I repeat as well: Islam went backwards because of an invasion by the Mongols and other reasons.
Even if that was an excuse, they still show no sign of moving forward. Europe was able to 'reform' it's religion and advance. iSSlam is more backward now than 100 years ago.
I repeat: I don't need to spend hours plucking quotes from the web. A quote from a web page is not proof but just another opinion. I along with the other members here have seen enough documentaries on pay-TV, read enough history books and heard enough historians discuss this issue to know the real truth. Those of us who are dry behind the ears can tell taqqiya from fact.
This are not opinions, it's facts. At least give me a proofe for you claims...
One cannot prove or disprove anything by printing out other peoples opinions. People come on this forum printing out quotes, facts and figures to prove 'the holocaust never happened' but does it prove it? Pedophiles can print out web pages that claim it is 'beneficial for children to have sex with adults before age 8'! Does that 'prove' them right?
Try watching some balanced documentaries, listen to Israel National Radio or Radio America. Attend some talks at some universities. You'll hear a contrary view.
Since you want token web pages:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Myths-of-Islam.htm#science
There was no unity amongst Europeans..........but they did OK.
The Muslims didn't.
On that we agree. Europeans did OK for themselves despite a lack of unity and constant fighting. What's iSSlam's excuse?
Europe has had wars, plagues, purges.......you name it. An intellectually capable people recover from set backs. A superior culture overcomes catastrophies in time. Europe has, iSSlam has not. Why? Because it is an inferior culture.
Islam recovered of Muhammad's tribal culture, now it needs to become modern, the fact that we live in a time after the weastern recovered and Islam sank doesn't mean that in the future the opposite will happen, you'll never know.
iSSlam shows no sign of moving forward. Europe was able to 'reform' it's religion and advance. iSSlam is more backward now than 100 years ago. The chances of them becoming 'modern' in thought is 1,000,000:1. Any sand-ape who even suggested 'reforming' iSSlam would be killed in a heartbeat.
At any rate, Dexter..............
Cultures capable of invention show an ability to recover lost ground.
The Japanese were feudal in the 19th century but at the first exposure to the west they made up 5 centuries in less than one.
China stalled but has made HUGE advances in less than 25 years!
India was almost destroyed by iSSlam but is now a mnajor centre for IT and bio-tech.
We already know about Europe.
If iSSlam was remotely capable of original thought or invention, don't you think it would show some sign of advancing in the last 500 years? Or certainly since the discovery of oil!
Why is it that China, Japan and India can progress so rapidly but iSSlam (with massive oil wealth) cannot?
-
The only one that brainwashed me is Bernard Lewis.
We don't studie about Muslims at all.
May be you should, know thy enemy.
The teachers will say they are our freinds, I know my leftists teachers. We studie about Europe only from the French revulotion to these days.
How can you understand Europe, let stand the Jewish history in Europe, if you only study after 1789?!?!
Good question, I have no answere. I studie history myself, I don't know what other people do.
The answer is, it is not possible to study the present without studying the past.
-
It went backwards because of an invasion by barbarians, not because of it's own stupid ideology like iSSlam did.
Islam also went back because of the Mongol invasion and other things that happend.
Wrong again. Asia has been getting economically stronger but the west is not going back to the 15th century.
The parts of Asia that get stronger, get stronger because they hold in the weastern culture. Asian states that don't have Weastern culture in terms of productivity and other aspects are faltering states.
1/ That proves western cultural superiority.
2/ It still demonstrates that one culture getting stronger doesn't make another one go backward 500 years unless it attacks it.
Nobody denies the fact that iSSlam had a golden age. But it's because of non-muSSlims that they conquered not because of muSSlims.
It's both, don't forget that the people they conquered went through Arabization and converted to Islam and became, infact, Arabs.
That's why after several generations all the science and learning disappeared, those once learned non-muSSlim people were culturally poisoned by iSSlam.
BTW, People cannot change race, only religion. Indonesians are muSSlim-nazis but not arabs. Same for pakrapistanis.
Yes there is. When you learn to drive you'll discover there is forward, neutral and reverse.
That's the best claim and analogy I've ever heard, way the go!
It's a simple but sound analogy.
I don't need to spend hours plucking quotes from the web. A quote from a web page is not proof but just another opinion. I along with the other members here have seen enough documentaries on pay-TV, read enough history books and heard enough historians discuss this issue to know the real truth. Those of us who are dry behind the ears can tell taqqiya from fact.
Well, Mr. Newman, disprove it!
One cannot prove or disprove anything by printing out other peoples opinions. People come on this forum printing out quotes, facts and figures to prove 'the holocaust never happened' but does it prove it? Pedophiles can print out web pages that claim it is 'beneficial for children to have sex with adults before age 8'! Does that 'prove' them right?
I repeat:Europe went backwards because of an invasion by barbarians, not because of it's own stupid ideology like iSSlam did
I repeat as well: Islam went backwards because of an invasion by the Mongols and other reasons.
Even if that was an excuse, they still show no sign of moving forward. Europe was able to 'reform' it's religion and advance. iSSlam is more backward now than 100 years ago.
I repeat: I don't need to spend hours plucking quotes from the web. A quote from a web page is not proof but just another opinion. I along with the other members here have seen enough documentaries on pay-TV, read enough history books and heard enough historians discuss this issue to know the real truth. Those of us who are dry behind the ears can tell taqqiya from fact.
This are not opinions, it's facts. At least give me a proofe for you claims...
One cannot prove or disprove anything by printing out other peoples opinions. People come on this forum printing out quotes, facts and figures to prove 'the holocaust never happened' but does it prove it? Pedophiles can print out web pages that claim it is 'beneficial for children to have sex with adults before age 8'! Does that 'prove' them right?
Try watching some balanced documentaries, listen to Israel National Radio or Radio America. Attend some talks at some universities. You'll hear a contrary view.
Since you want token web pages:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Myths-of-Islam.htm#science
There was no unity amongst Europeans..........but they did OK.
The Muslims didn't.
On that we agree. Europeans did OK for themselves despite a lack of unity and constant fighting. What's iSSlam's excuse?
Europe has had wars, plagues, purges.......you name it. An intellectually capable people recover from set backs. A superior culture overcomes catastrophies in time. Europe has, iSSlam has not. Why? Because it is an inferior culture.
Islam recovered of Muhammad's tribal culture, now it needs to become modern, the fact that we live in a time after the weastern recovered and Islam sank doesn't mean that in the future the opposite will happen, you'll never know.
iSSlam shows no sign of moving forward. Europe was able to 'reform' it's religion and advance. iSSlam is more backward now than 100 years ago. The chances of them becoming 'modern' in thought is 1,000,000:1. Any sand-ape who even suggested 'reforming' iSSlam would be killed in a heartbeat.
At any rate, Dexter..............
Cultures capable of invention show an ability to recover lost ground.
The Japanese were feudal in the 19th century but at the first exposure to the west they made up 5 centuries in less than one.
China stalled but has made HUGE advances in less than 25 years!
India was almost destroyed by iSSlam but is now a mnajor centre for IT and bio-tech.
We already know about Europe.
If iSSlam was remotely capable of original thought or invention, don't you think it would show some sign of advancing in the last 500 years? Or certainly since the discovery of oil!
Why is it that China, Japan and India can progress so rapidly but iSSlam (with massive oil wealth) cannot?
:::D :::D
Because the racist Whites and Jews are secretely controlling the Arab leaders, and stealing all the $$ from the Umma!!!
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The only one that brainwashed me is Bernard Lewis.
We don't studie about Muslims at all.
May be you should, know thy enemy.
The teachers will say they are our freinds, I know my leftists teachers. We studie about Europe only from the French revulotion to these days.
One thing you learn as you get older, teachers are their primary only to teach you HOW to learn. As you get older you can expand your knowledge based.
I have a great belief that you respect and learn from your elders. Book learning is great but ever once compares to life experience.
Once you have that, then you have more tools to review and question the information you have. And then have a greater understanding of the world around you.
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1/ That proves western cultural superiority.
2/ It still demonstrates that one culture getting stronger doesn't make another one go backward 500 years unless it attacks it.
1. True
2. No, if the Chinese would stick with their culture they would have going back 500 (or something) years backward. The thing is that the Chinese got the weastern culture fast and the only people who still live like Chinese 1000 years ago are the "Second Chinese" - Farmers, poor people etc'.
That's why after several generations all the science and learning disappeared, those once learned non-muSSlim people were culturally poisoned by iSSlam.
BTW, People cannot change race, only religion. Indonesians are muSSlim-nazis but not arabs. Same for pakrapistanis.
No, the fact that disproove your claim is that the Arabs conquered the middle east and 500 years after that the Islamic golden age started.
When I was talking about Arabization I was talking about the middle east and north african people, at least most of them.
It's a simple but sound analogy.
No, it isn't, because cultures can't be stalled because of the fact that our world is dynemic and there are many cultural meeting that made other cultures move backward or forward.
One cannot prove or disprove anything by printing out other peoples opinions. People come on this forum printing out quotes, facts and figures to prove 'the holocaust never happened' but does it prove it? Pedophiles can print out web pages that claim it is 'beneficial for children to have sex with adults before age 8'! Does that 'prove' them right?
It's not opinions, it's what actually happened. What I qouted (and some of it wrote by myself) are facts in the Chinese history. If you can show me I qouted wrong facts about the Chinese golden age, great, if you can't, at least admit it.
Even if that was an excuse, they still show no sign of moving forward. Europe was able to 'reform' it's religion and advance. iSSlam is more backward now than 100 years ago.
Every dark age is most of the times very long. We are only in the third century of the Islamic dark age, I hope that the clash of cultures will happen soon and the weasterns will win.
Since you want token web pages:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Myths-of-Islam.htm#science
Which is disproved by:
http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/Nostalgia-of-Islamic-Golden-Age.htm
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/
http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jul/science-and-islam
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_401_450/golden_age_of_islam.htm
Your link show that Muslims don't have credit about cofee, and Zero, wow.... O0
What's iSSlam's excuse?
The Arab culture.
At any rate, Dexter..............
Cultures capable of invention show an ability to recover lost ground.
The Japanese were feudal in the 19th century but at the first exposure to the west they made up 5 centuries in less than one.
China stalled but has made HUGE advances in less than 25 years!
India was almost destroyed by iSSlam but is now a mnajor centre for IT and bio-tech.
We already know about Europe.
If iSSlam was remotely capable of original thought or invention, don't you think it would show some sign of advancing in the last 500 years? Or certainly since the discovery of oil!
Why is it that China, Japan and India can progress so rapidly but iSSlam (with massive oil wealth) cannot?
Because today's Islamic culture is infirior, and all countries that are seccesfull have weastern's state model.
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1/ That proves western cultural superiority.
2/ It still demonstrates that one culture getting stronger doesn't make another one go backward 500 years unless it attacks it.
1. True
2. No, if the Chinese would stick with their culture they would have going back 500 (or something) years backward. The thing is that the Chinese got the weastern culture fast and the only people who still live like Chinese 1000 years ago are the "Second Chinese" - Farmers, poor people etc'.
But it shows that inventive cultures can advance even by embracing aspects of another culture as the Chinese and Japanese have done. iSSlam is even too backward to do that. So how could they originate any new ideas?
That's why after several generations all the science and learning disappeared, those once learned non-muSSlim people were culturally poisoned by iSSlam.
BTW, People cannot change race, only religion. Indonesians are muSSlim-nazis but not arabs. Same for pakrapistanis.
No, the fact that disproove your claim is that the Arabs conquered the middle east and 500 years after that the Islamic golden age started.
And then after benefiting from the knowledge of non-muSSlims it petered out because iSSlam is backward.
When I was talking about Arabization I was talking about the middle east and north african people, at least most of them.
The fact that the now 'arabised/muSSlimised' peoples have never recovered their intellectual edge is proof of iSSlams inability to invent.
It's a simple but sound analogy.
No, it isn't, because cultures can't be stalled because of the fact that our world is dynemic and there are many cultural meeting that made other cultures move backward or forward.
Or just stand still as in africa or pre-white Australia and North America.
One cannot prove or disprove anything by printing out other peoples opinions. People come on this forum printing out quotes, facts and figures to prove 'the holocaust never happened' but does it prove it? Pedophiles can print out web pages that claim it is 'beneficial for children to have sex with adults before age 8'! Does that 'prove' them right?
It's not opinions, it's what actually happened. What I qouted (and some of it wrote by myself) are facts in the Chinese history. If you can show me I qouted wrong facts about the Chinese golden age, great, if you can't, at least admit it.
I don't dispute facts about Chinese history. Just ypour perception of those facts.
Even if that was an excuse, they still show no sign of moving forward. Europe was able to 'reform' it's religion and advance. iSSlam is more backward now than 100 years ago.
Every dark age is most of the times very long. We are only in the third century of the Islamic dark age, I hope that the clash of cultures will happen soon and the weasterns will win.
The european dark age happened with no internet, radio, TV or oil money. Given these advancements you'd think iSSlam would show some sign of moving forward. But it's going BACKWARDS.
Since you want token web pages:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Myths-of-Islam.htm#science
Which is disproved by:
http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/Nostalgia-of-Islamic-Golden-Age.htm
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/
http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jul/science-and-islam
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_401_450/golden_age_of_islam.htm
Your link show that Muslims don't have credit about cofee, and Zero, wow.... O0
Not disproved. Contrary opinions. Like I said........... If someone puts links to 50 sites claiming the 'haulocaust never happened', it doesn't constitute proof.
What's iSSlam's excuse?
The Arab culture.
No. it's iSSlam. Pakistan is stuffed, too and they're not arab.
At any rate, Dexter..............
Cultures capable of invention show an ability to recover lost ground.
The Japanese were feudal in the 19th century but at the first exposure to the west they made up 5 centuries in less than one.
China stalled but has made HUGE advances in less than 25 years!
India was almost destroyed by iSSlam but is now a mnajor centre for IT and bio-tech.
We already know about Europe.
If iSSlam was remotely capable of original thought or invention, don't you think it would show some sign of advancing in the last 500 years? Or certainly since the discovery of oil!
Why is it that China, Japan and India can progress so rapidly but iSSlam (with massive oil wealth) cannot?
Because today's Islamic culture is infirior, and all countries that are seccesfull have weastern's state model.
iSSlamic culture was inferior in 700 CE, 1000CE, 1350CE, 1850CE AND "today".
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In the words of F.R. Rosenthal (The Classical Heritage of Islam): "Islamic rational scholarship, which we have mainly in mind when we speak of the greatness of Muslim civilization, depends in its entirety on classical antiquity . . . Islamic civilization as we know it would simply not have existed without the Greek heritage."
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0415076935/csicop
Ibn Warraq, author of Why I Am Not a Muslim, points out: "Islamic science was founded on the works of the ancient Greeks, and the Muslims are important as the transmitters of Greek (and Hindu) learning that may well have been lost otherwise" (Aristotle, Plato, Galen, Hippocrates, Archimedes, Euclid, Ptolemy). And even so, "most of the translators were Christian."
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879759844/csicop
Al-Hasan ibn al-Haytham was one of the greatest scientists of medieval Islam, and his "Optics" strongly influenced Kepler. The French philologist Ernest Renan wrote: "A disciple of Maimonides, the Jewish philosopher, relates that he was in Baghdad on business, when the library of a certain philosopher (who died in 1214) was burned there. The preacher, who conducted the execution of the sentence, threw into the flames, with his own hands, an astronomical work of Ibn al-Haitham, after he had pointed to a delineation therein given of the sphere of the earth, as an unhappy symbol of impious Atheism."......
There is also a current line of thought that assumes Islamic science has been "hijacked" by fundamentalists, and that all ills can be conveniently attributed to them. But shifting the burden of anti-science to an isolated hard-core fundamentalist group evades the central issue. Taslima Nasreen had a government warrant issued for her arrest in Bangladesh (for "outraging religious feelings"), and has some experience of official Muslim displeasure. "I don't find any difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalists," she says. ". . . I need to say that, because some liberals always defend Islam and blame fundamentalists for creating problems."
http://csicop.org/sb/2002-03/inklings.html
Not proof but opinions I happen to share.
Learn the difference.
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But it shows that inventive cultures can advance even by embracing aspects of another culture as the Chinese and Japanese have done. iSSlam is even too backward to do that. So how could they originate any new ideas?
The Chinese poor people didn't advence, when the Chinese communist did the cultural revulotion it made millions of people killed. The Chinese and Japanese are completly weastern today, that's why they are advanced.
And then after benefiting from the knowledge of non-muSSlims it petered out because iSSlam is backward.
I already showed you things that the Muslims invented by thamselvs.
The fact that the now 'arabised/muSSlimised' peoples have never recovered their intellectual edge is proof of iSSlams inability to invent.
No, it shows what fundementalism can cause. By the way, Iran is in the 9 place in the whole world in math acorrding to Piza test or something like that.
Or just stand still as in africa or pre-white Australia and North America.
Only Africa and Australia, that's because they never developed something. The north-Arabia pre-Islamic Arabs never advenced because they were always nomads and tribial culturaly, the south-Arabia pre-Islamic Arabs developed pretty good cultures and founded the Ethiopean Empire and Shva kingdom (Queen of Shva..).
I don't dispute facts about Chinese history. Just ypour perception of those facts.
What perception of those facts ?
The european dark age happened with no internet, radio, TV or oil money. Given these advancements you'd think iSSlam would show some sign of moving forward. But it's going BACKWARDS.
Why would the Muslim rich rulers will help their people ? It's all about money.
Not disproved. Contrary opinions. Like I said........... If someone puts links to 50 sites claiming the 'haulocaust never happened', it doesn't constitute proof.
If it's a site from JewWatch, sure, but I gave a link to Discovery Magazine and to The Indenpendent.
No. it's iSSlam. Pakistan is stuffed, too and they're not arab.
You don't have to be Arab ethniclly to hold Arab culture as you don't have to be European to have European culture.
Not proof but opinions I happen to share.
Learn the difference.
I provided facts, and from this facts you can counclude diffrent things, but the facts are facts. Opinion are based on facts or so-called facts, when the facts are wrong, the opinion is wrong, or suppose to be wrong.
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But it shows that inventive cultures can advance even by embracing aspects of another culture as the Chinese and Japanese have done. iSSlam is even too backward to do that. So how could they originate any new ideas?
The Chinese poor people didn't advence, when the Chinese communist did the cultural revulotion it made millions of people killed. The Chinese and Japanese are completly weastern today, that's why they are advanced.
they are not completely Westernised.
And then after benefiting from the knowledge of non-muSSlims it petered out because iSSlam is backward.
I already showed you things that the Muslims invented by thamselvs.
The fact that the now 'arabised/muSSlimised' peoples have never recovered their intellectual edge is proof of iSSlams inability to invent.
No, it shows what fundementalism can cause. By the way, Iran is in the 9 place in the whole world in math acorrding to Piza test or something like that.
Or just stand still as in africa or pre-white Australia and North America.
Only Africa and Australia, that's because they never developed something. The north-Arabia pre-Islamic Arabs never advenced because they were always nomads and tribial culturaly, the south-Arabia pre-Islamic Arabs developed pretty good cultures and founded the Ethiopean Empire and Shva kingdom (Queen of Shva..).
I don't dispute facts about Chinese history. Just ypour perception of those facts.
What perception of those facts ?
The european dark age happened with no internet, radio, TV or oil money. Given these advancements you'd think iSSlam would show some sign of moving forward. But it's going BACKWARDS.
Why would the Muslim rich rulers will help their people ? It's all about money.
Not disproved. Contrary opinions. Like I said........... If someone puts links to 50 sites claiming the 'haulocaust never happened', it doesn't constitute proof.
If it's a site from JewWatch, sure, but I gave a link to Discovery Magazine and to The Indenpendent.
No. it's iSSlam. Pakistan is stuffed, too and they're not arab.
You don't have to be Arab ethniclly to hold Arab culture as you don't have to be European to have European culture.
Well, I think it helps.
Not proof but opinions I happen to share.
Learn the difference.
I provided facts, and from this facts you can counclude diffrent things, but the facts are facts. Opinion are based on facts or so-called facts, when the facts are wrong, the opinion is wrong, or suppose to be wrong.
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But it shows that inventive cultures can advance even by embracing aspects of another culture as the Chinese and Japanese have done. iSSlam is even too backward to do that. So how could they originate any new ideas?
The Chinese poor people didn't advence, when the Chinese communist did the cultural revulotion it made millions of people killed. The Chinese and Japanese are completly weastern today, that's why they are advanced.
They are NOT western at all as far as culture goes. Driving motor cars and flying aeroplanes doesn't constitute a western culture. The Japanese put duty and honour above personal wants....that's eastern. The Chinese value the state or collective group as more important than the individual......that's eastern, NOT western. When western leaders talk to the chinese about democracy and human rights the chinese say...."don't force your western values on us. We're not interested".
And then after benefiting from the knowledge of non-muSSlims it petered out because iSSlam is backward.
I already showed you things that the Muslims invented by thamselvs.
You and some muSSlim apologists think they invented them. Others say they did not.
The fact that the now 'arabised/muSSlimised' peoples have never recovered their intellectual edge is proof of iSSlams inability to invent.
No, it shows what fundementalism can cause. By the way, Iran is in the 9 place in the whole world in math acorrding to Piza test or something like that.
Iran is also number 1 for heroine addiction, so 'so what'?
iSSlam IS fundamentalist. There is NO 'reform' iSSlam and there never has been.
Or just stand still as in africa or pre-white Australia and North America.
Only Africa and Australia, that's because they never developed something. The north-Arabia pre-Islamic Arabs never advenced because they were always nomads and tribial culturaly, the south-Arabia pre-Islamic Arabs developed pretty good cultures and founded the Ethiopean Empire and Shva kingdom (Queen of Shva..).
Abbos invented boomerangs and a dreamtime culture as American Indians invented bows & arrows and a religion. But they both STALLED
I don't dispute facts about Chinese history. Just ypour perception of those facts.
What perception of those facts ?
That they went back centuries. They never lost the knowledge of gunpowder, astrology or navigation that they had. They just ceased to advance any further.
The european dark age happened with no internet, radio, TV or oil money. Given these advancements you'd think iSSlam would show some sign of moving forward. But it's going BACKWARDS.
Why would the Muslim rich rulers will help their people ? It's all about money.It was not in the intersts of european rulers or the church for the people to have free thought, yet europeans still advanced. No excuse for the muSSlims.
Not disproved. Contrary opinions. Like I said........... If someone puts links to 50 sites claiming the 'haulocaust never happened', it doesn't constitute proof.
If it's a site from JewWatch, sure, but I gave a link to Discovery Magazine and to The Indenpendent.
As I can produce any number of links to essays, books and other matewrial to support my view (on top of the ones I already posted). Spend hours googling and you'll find links to support any view from reputable sources.
No. it's iSSlam. Pakistan is stuffed, too and they're not arab.
You don't have to be Arab ethniclly to hold Arab culture as you don't have to be European to have European culture.
But iSSlamic people whose culture is not arabic are backward, too. Not by as much, though.
Not proof but opinions I happen to share.
Learn the difference.
I provided facts, and from this facts you can counclude diffrent things, but the facts are facts. Opinion are based on facts or so-called facts, when the facts are wrong, the opinion is wrong, or suppose to be wrong.
Fact: iSSlam had a golden age.
Oppinion: It was due to iSSlam.
I don't dispute the facts, I dispute your opinion about the facts.
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They are NOT western at all as far as culture goes. Driving motor cars and flying aeroplanes doesn't constitute a western culture. The Japanese put duty and honour above personal wants....that's eastern. The Chinese value the state or collective group as more important than the individual......that's eastern, NOT western. When western leaders talk to the chinese about democracy and human rights the chinese say...."don't force your western values on us. We're not interested".
The only Chinese and Japanese people that live in a tradionial way are the poor people as I already said. Velues of the acient Chinese and Japanese culture doesn't prove they are not weasterns, those velues are a small part of the velues system the west has endow to the Chinese and the Japanese through globalization, colonialism and the velues the revulotioners espouse as elitism and a support of weastern technology is the most of the culture of the Japanese and Chinese today.
The Chinese don't have the velue of social consolidation anymore. The Chinese are very mixed people and have very diffrent dialects, most of the Chinese live in a primitive way and warlords ideas. China will collapse soon and become to many states, that's my opinion. The Soviet Union was weastern, yet they didn't had democracy and human rights, Nazi Germany and Facist Italy too. When I mean "weastern" I mean technology, elitism and productivity.
You and some muSSlim apologists think they invented them. Others say they did not.
As, Bernard Lewis, Bat Ye'or and other mainstream researchers and historions ?
Iran is also number 1 for heroine addiction, so 'so what'?
iSSlam IS fundamentalist. There is NO 'reform' iSSlam and there never has been.
What's heroine addiction ?
Islam wasn't always Wahabbism, so it wasn't always like that.
Abbos invented boomerangs and a dreamtime culture as American Indians invented bows & arrows and a religion. But they both STALLED
The pre-White Australian culture wasn't developed, inventing boomerang doesn't show it advenced somewhere, it remain tribial society. The Indians developed kingdoms so they were developing by time too.
That they went back centuries. They never lost the knowledge of gunpowder, astrology or navigation that they had. They just ceased to advance any further.
The Muslims didn't to, you can't lose knoledge unless you destroy it. The Muslims went back by being uncreative as a unique culture and became tribial-muhammad style again.
It was not in the intersts of european rulers or the church for the people to have free thought, yet europeans still advanced. No excuse for the muSSlims.
Because of reform Christian movment and the French revulotion. "French Revulotion" in Iran maybe will happen because most Iranians are against their monkeys, they even burned his pictures infront of him.
As I can produce any number of links to essays, books and other matewrial to support my view (on top of the ones I already posted). Spend hours googling and you'll find links to support any view from reputable sources.
But it's not point of view, it's facts. Bernard Lewis say exectly what I say. Ever read one of his books about Islam's history ?
But iSSlamic people whose culture is not arabic are backward, too. Not by as much, though.
Because Islamic culture is Arab culture by form, that's why many think that Muslim=Arab, always.
Fact: iSSlam had a golden age.
Oppinion: It was due to iSSlam.
I don't dispute the facts, I dispute your opinion about the facts.
I didn't say it was due Islam, it was due to Muslims.
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They are NOT western at all as far as culture goes. Driving motor cars and flying aeroplanes doesn't constitute a western culture. The Japanese put duty and honour above personal wants....that's eastern. The Chinese value the state or collective group as more important than the individual......that's eastern, NOT western. When western leaders talk to the chinese about democracy and human rights the chinese say...."don't force your western values on us. We're not interested".
The only Chinese and Japanese people that live in a tradionial way are the poor people as I already said. Velues of the acient Chinese and Japanese culture doesn't prove they are not weasterns, those velues are a small part of the velues system the west has endow to the Chinese and the Japanese through globalization, colonialism and the velues the revulotioners espouse as elitism and a support of weastern technology is the most of the culture of the Japanese and Chinese today.
The Chinese don't have the velue of social consolidation anymore. The Chinese are very mixed people and have very diffrent dialects, most of the Chinese live in a primitive way and warlords ideas. China will collapse soon and become to many states, that's my opinion. The Soviet Union was weastern, yet they didn't had democracy and human rights, Nazi Germany and Facist Italy too. When I mean "weastern" I mean technology, elitism and productivity.
Exactly. They have western inventions and possessions but their mindset/culture is still eastern. Just as orthodox Jews have cars and work at computer factories their culture is still Jewish.
You and some muSSlim apologists think they invented them. Others say they did not.
As, Bernard Lewis, Bat Ye'or and other mainstream researchers and historions ?
Mr Charles Brookes, graduate of the University of Texas and the University of Hawaii with two masters' degrees (one in history), professional educator and broadcaster in three continents shares the very views I have expressed. If I had the time to google I could find no end of prestige 'names' who share my view but so could you. so what?
Iran is also number 1 for heroine addiction, so 'so what'?
iSSlam IS fundamentalist. There is NO 'reform' iSSlam and there never has been.
What's heroine addiction ?
Drug addiction. There was a thread about it on the forum.
Islam wasn't always Wahabbism, so it wasn't always like that.
iSSlam always had dihmmitude, slavery, murder, forced conversion and pack-rape. You can put different "ism" lables on it but it doesn't change. Evil is evil. Backward id backward.
Abbos invented boomerangs and a dreamtime culture as American Indians invented bows & arrows and a religion. But they both STALLED
The pre-White Australian culture wasn't developed, inventing boomerang doesn't show it advenced somewhere, it remain tribial society. The Indians developed kingdoms so they were developing by time too.
.....and then their developement stalled for centuries. I said 'north american indians, too BTW. Not aztecs, incas etc.
That they went back centuries. They never lost the knowledge of gunpowder, astrology or navigation that they had. They just ceased to advance any further.
The Muslims didn't to, you can't lose knoledge unless you destroy it. The Muslims went back by being uncreative as a unique culture and became tribial-muhammad style again.
Backward is backward. The culture moved nowhere because it was always primative, their technology disappeared because what you don't invent, you can't maintain.
It was not in the intersts of european rulers or the church for the people to have free thought, yet europeans still advanced. No excuse for the muSSlims.
Because of reform Christian movment and the French revulotion. "French Revulotion" in Iran maybe will happen because most Iranians are against their monkeys, they even burned his pictures infront of him.
The reformation of the church happened centuries before the frog's revolution. As did Britains magna carta and 'common law'. The french revolution had little to do with europes enlightenment. It happened years before then.
As I can produce any number of links to essays, books and other matewrial to support my view (on top of the ones I already posted). Spend hours googling and you'll find links to support any view from reputable sources.
But it's not point of view, it's facts. Bernard Lewis say exectly what I say. Ever read one of his books about Islam's history ?
He expresses the same opinions. His facts are not in question. ie; "iSSlam had a golden age" and "islam is now in the dark ages" but opinions as to who was responsible and what caused it's downfall are open to debate.
But iSSlamic people whose culture is not arabic are backward, too. Not by as much, though.
Because Islamic culture is Arab culture by form, that's why many think that Muslim=Arab, always.
Indonesians, malaysians and Turks don't.
Fact: iSSlam had a golden age.
Oppinion: It was due to iSSlam.
I don't dispute the facts, I dispute your opinion about the facts.
I didn't say it was due Islam, it was due to Muslims.
Then you are peddling the same old taqqiya......."it's not true iSSlam, it's a religion of peace....blah blah blah". Nobody believes it. iSSlam is as iSSlamists (muSSlims) do.
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Exactly. They have western inventions and possessions but their mindset/culture is still eastern. Just as orthodox Jews have cars and work at computer factories their culture is still Jewish.
No, it's diffrent. It's not like they wear Chinese clothes, singing tradional Chinese song etc'. This people are completly weastern both culturaly and by technology, elitism and productivity.
Mr Charles Brookes, graduate of the University of Texas and the University of Hawaii with two masters' degrees (one in history), professional educator and broadcaster in three continents shares the very views I have expressed. If I had the time to google I could find no end of prestige 'names' who share my view but so could you. so what?
Which one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Brooks_%28disambiguation%29
iSSlam always had dihmmitude, slavery, murder, forced conversion and pack-rape. You can put different "ism" lables on it but it doesn't change. Evil is evil. Backward id backward.
Again, Islam wasn't always like that.
.....and then their developement stalled for centuries. I said 'north american indians, too BTW. Not aztecs, incas etc.
It didn't stalled, for something to stalled it needs to live in a cage all the time, and even than it will develop a little bit.
Backward is backward. The culture moved nowhere because it was always primative, their technology disappeared because what you don't invent, you can't maintain.
No, it didn't. The Islamic culture was the richest culture in the 13th century and only because of that the Muslims were the smartest, richest and the strongest culture in that time. That's also why the Jews had a golden age thamselvs.
The reformation of the church happened centuries before the frog's revolution. As did Britains magna carta and 'common law'. The french revolution had little to do with europes enlightenment. It happened years before then.
I didn't said it didn't happened befor the French revulotion. Age of Enlightenment was a bit befor the French revulotion.
He expresses the same opinions. His facts are not in question. ie; "iSSlam had a golden age" and "islam is now in the dark ages" but opinions as to who was responsible and what caused it's downfall are open to debate.
This are NOT opinions! We can know who invented things using FACTS, get it ?
Indonesians, malaysians and Turks don't.
Ethniclly.
Then you are peddling the same old taqqiya......."it's not true iSSlam, it's a religion of peace....blah blah blah". Nobody believes it. iSSlam is as iSSlamists (muSSlims) do.
What are you talking about ???
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Exactly. They have western inventions and possessions but their mindset/culture is still eastern. Just as orthodox Jews have cars and work at computer factories their culture is still Jewish.
No, it's diffrent. It's not like they wear Chinese clothes, singing tradional Chinese song etc'. This people are completly weastern both culturaly and by technology, elitism and productivity.
That doesn't make them western. They care much less about personal freedom and democracy than than they do about social order and conformity. It is true of ethnic chinese Singaporians too. This is a crucial difference between eastern and western mindsets. It is far more important than clothes.
Mr Charles Brookes, graduate of the University of Texas and the University of Hawaii with two masters' degrees (one in history), professional educator and broadcaster in three continents shares the very views I have expressed. If I had the time to google I could find no end of prestige 'names' who share my view but so could you. so what?
Which one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Brooks_%28disambiguation%29
none
iSSlam always had dihmmitude, slavery, murder, forced conversion and pack-rape. You can put different "ism" lables on it but it doesn't change. Evil is evil. Backward id backward.
Again, Islam wasn't always like that.
Are you kidding? History definintely disagrees with you. When was there no dihmitude? It's a koranic concept since Mo's time. As is the right to use the women of conquered people as sex slaves and sell conquered men as slaves.
.....and then their developement stalled for centuries. I said 'north american indians, too BTW. Not aztecs, incas etc.
It didn't stalled, for something to stalled it needs to live in a cage all the time, and even than it will develop a little bit.
If it's not moving forward or receeding it's stalled or arrested.
Backward is backward. The culture moved nowhere because it was always primative, their technology disappeared because what you don't invent, you can't maintain.
No, it didn't. The Islamic culture was the richest culture in the 13th century and only because of that the Muslims were the smartest, richest and the strongest culture in that time. That's also why the Jews had a golden age thamselvs.
Now I've heard everything! The Jews were partly responsible for iSSlam's golden age along with other non-muSSlims. The iSSlamic culture has never been smart. The non-muSSlim cultures of the people they conquered were 'smart' and 'rich'.
The reformation of the church happened centuries before the frog's revolution. As did Britains magna carta and 'common law'. The french revolution had little to do with europes enlightenment. It happened years before then.
I didn't said it didn't happened befor the French revulotion. Age of Enlightenment was a bit befor the French revulotion.
He expresses the same opinions. His facts are not in question. ie; "iSSlam had a golden age" and "islam is now in the dark ages" but opinions as to who was responsible and what caused it's downfall are open to debate.
This are NOT opinions! We can know who invented things using FACTS, get it ?
You can know what land someyhing was invented in. With proper records you can know who invented it. Put heresay about thing over 700 years ago WITHOUT impartial back-up is not established 'fact'. But nobody has proved iSSlam responsible for inventing anything. Many say they invented nothing.
Token link since you think they mean proof:
http://www.islam-watch.org/AlamgirHussain/myth_islams_contribution.htm
Indonesians, malaysians and Turks don't.
Ethniclly.And culturally....food, dance, language, traditions etc.
Then you are peddling the same old taqqiya......."it's not true iSSlam, it's a religion of peace....blah blah blah". Nobody believes it. iSSlam is as iSSlamists (muSSlims) do.
What are you talking about ???
What you said before.
I didn't say it was due Islam, it was due to Muslims.
That's like CAIR trying to claim terrorism isn't real iSSlam. What 99% of muSSlims all over the world do IS iSSlam. What the majority of Catholics do IS catholicism. To claim otherwise is taqqiya.
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That doesn't make them western. They care much less about personal freedom and democracy than than they do about social order and conformity. It is true of ethnic chinese Singaporians too. This is a crucial difference between eastern and western mindsets. It is far more important than clothes.
That's nonesense, right wing liberalism makes you more indevudual, you don't have to be a liberal to be weastern. Plus you ignor the fact that in 1989 a democratic revulotion almost happened in China. The Germans are also very obedient people, it doesn't make tham less weasterns. While the Germans are a homogeneous people the Chinese aren't, that's why soon China will collapse, at least in my opinion. The Chinese that are out of second China are very weasterned and wearing tradional Chinese clothes, which very few wear, doesn't make tham less or more weasterns.
Are you kidding? History definintely disagrees with you. When was there no dihmitude? It's a koranic concept since Mo's time. As is the right to use the women of conquered people as sex slaves and sell conquered men as slaves
I meant it wasn't all the time Wahhabist.
If it's not moving forward or receeding it's stalled or arrested.
There is no such thing as an arrested culture unless it never moved from the tribial lives to the urban-villige under states lives.
Now I've heard everything! The Jews were partly responsible for iSSlam's golden age along with other non-muSSlims. The iSSlamic culture has never been smart. The non-muSSlim cultures of the people they conquered were 'smart' and 'rich'.
The Jews were the only one who weren't Muslim that actually helped the Muslims. There were no non-Muslims in Islamic states but Jews, Christians and other very minor religions. Let me list you some of the Muslim scientists and scholers:
Jabir Ibn Haiyan died 803
Mohammad Bin Musa al-Khawarizmi died 840
Yaqub Ibn Ishaq al-Kindi 800
Thabit Ibn Qurra 836
Ali Ibn Rabban al-Tabari 838
Abu Abdullah al-Battani 858
Al-Farghani 860
Mohammad Ibn Zakariya al-Razi 864
Abu al-Nasr al-Farabi 870
Abul Hasan Ali al-Masu'di died 957
Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi 936
Abul Wafa Muhammad al-Buzjani 940
Abu Ali Hasan Ibn al-Haitham 965
Abu al-Hasan al-Mawardi 972
Abu Raihan al-Biruni 973
Ibn Sina 980
Omar al-Khayyam 1044
Abu Hamid al-Ghazali 1058
Abu Marwan Ibn Zuhr 1091
Al-Idrisi 1099
Ibn Rushd 1128
Ibn al-Baitar died 1248
Nasir al-Din al-Tusi 1201
Jalal al-Din Rumi 1207
Ibn al-Nafis 1213
Ibn Khaldun 1332
You can know what land someyhing was invented in. With proper records you can know who invented it. Put heresay about thing over 700 years ago WITHOUT impartial back-up is not established 'fact'. But nobody has proved iSSlam responsible for inventing anything. Many say they invented nothing.
Well, first, impartial back-up isn't very relieble back-up. When the Muslims invent something that didn't have a base befor their try of invation, they invented it by themselvs. Simple logic.
And culturally....food, dance, language, traditions etc.
Turks of Turkey are very diffrent, but other Turk people that converted to Islam has "forget" their pre-Islamic-pagan history and started to see themselvs as Arab Muslims. Islam was in it's beggining an ethnic religion just like Judaism but when time passed it became multi-ethnic/race religion. Islam's culture is based on Arab culture, that's why people that hold this religion are staying far behined while other advence. When non-Arab Muslims hold Islamic culture, it's not Islamic culture only, but it's mainly.
What you said before.
Where did I said "it's not true iSSlam, it's a religion of peace....blah blah blah" ?
That's like CAIR trying to claim terrorism isn't real iSSlam. What 99% of muSSlims all over the world do IS iSSlam. What the majority of Catholics do IS catholicism. To claim otherwise is taqqiya.
Muslims of the golden age are not modern-day Muslims.
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That doesn't make them western. They care much less about personal freedom and democracy than than they do about social order and conformity. It is true of ethnic chinese Singaporians too. This is a crucial difference between eastern and western mindsets. It is far more important than clothes.
That's nonesense, right wing liberalism makes you more indevudual, you don't have to be a liberal to be weastern. Plus you ignor the fact that in 1989 a democratic revulotion almost happened in China. The Germans are also very obedient people, it doesn't make tham less weasterns. While the Germans are a homogeneous people the Chinese aren't, that's why soon China will collapse, at least in my opinion. The Chinese that are out of second China are very weasterned and wearing tradional Chinese clothes, which very few wear, doesn't make tham less or more weasterns.
Placing a high value on personal freedom is not 'liberalism' only. Conservatives do this too.
What separates eastern and western culture is not clothing, pop music or household appliances. It is a mindset. Eg: Chinese will happily trade-off personal freedom and free-speach for prosperity. Westerners NEVER will contemplate such a thing.
Westerners will place the elderly in nursing homes so they won't be burdoned with them. That idea is repugnant to asians.
In an asian household, the father is an undisputed ruler who is rarely questioned and NEVER argued with. In western households decisions are made more collectively.
To simply lable a culture eastern or western on shallow, surface appearances is foolish. It is the deeper core values that determine culture.
I live in the asia/pacific region. I've met and worked with more chinese than you'll ever meet in your life. My great great grandfather was a full blood chinaman. My grandfather (quarter cast chinese) spoke fluent cantonese and spent his career travelling throughout South Asia on business. Now YOU'RE telling ME about chinese culture! :o.
Are you kidding? History definintely disagrees with you. When was there no dihmitude? It's a koranic concept since Mo's time. As is the right to use the women of conquered people as sex slaves and sell conquered men as slaves
I meant it wasn't all the time Wahhabist.
That's just an "ist" or "ism" label. iSSlam was always oppressive and cruel.
If it's not moving forward or receeding it's stalled or arrested.
There is no such thing as an arrested culture unless it never moved from the tribial lives to the urban-villige under states lives.
If it moves neither forward nor backward, it's arrested or stagnated.
Now I've heard everything! The Jews were partly responsible for iSSlam's golden age along with other non-muSSlims. The iSSlamic culture has never been smart. The non-muSSlim cultures of the people they conquered were 'smart' and 'rich'.
The Jews were the only one who weren't Muslim that actually helped the Muslims. There were no non-Muslims in Islamic states but Jews, Christians and other very minor religions. Let me list you some of the Muslim scientists and scholers:
Jabir Ibn Haiyan died 803
Mohammad Bin Musa al-Khawarizmi died 840
Yaqub Ibn Ishaq al-Kindi 800
Thabit Ibn Qurra 836
Ali Ibn Rabban al-Tabari 838
Abu Abdullah al-Battani 858
Al-Farghani 860
Mohammad Ibn Zakariya al-Razi 864
Abu al-Nasr al-Farabi 870
Abul Hasan Ali al-Masu'di died 957
Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi 936
Abul Wafa Muhammad al-Buzjani 940
Abu Ali Hasan Ibn al-Haitham 965
Abu al-Hasan al-Mawardi 972
Abu Raihan al-Biruni 973
Ibn Sina 980
Omar al-Khayyam 1044
Abu Hamid al-Ghazali 1058
Abu Marwan Ibn Zuhr 1091
Al-Idrisi 1099
Ibn Rushd 1128
Ibn al-Baitar died 1248
Nasir al-Din al-Tusi 1201
Jalal al-Din Rumi 1207
Ibn al-Nafis 1213
Ibn Khaldun 1332
This age was marked by, among other things, intellectual achievement. A number of medieval thinkers and scientists living under Islamic rule, by no means all of them "Moslems" either nominally or substantially, played a useful role of transmitting Greek, Hindu, and other pre-Islamic fruits of knowledge to Westerners. They contributed to making Aristotle known in Christian Europe. But in doing this, they were but transmitting what they themselves had received from non-Moslem sources.
Three speculative thinkers, notably the three Persians al-Kindi, al-Farabi, and Avicenna, combined Aristotelianism and Neoplatonism with other ideas introduced through Islam. Greatly influenced by Baghdad’s Greek heritage in philosophy that survived the Arab invasion, and especially the writings of Aristotle, Farabi adopted the view — utterly heretical from a Moslem viewpoint — that reason is superior to revelation. He saw religion as a symbolic rendering of truth, and, like Plato, saw it as the duty of the philosopher to provide guidance to the state. He engaged in rationalistic questioning of the authority of the Koran and rejected predestination. He wrote more than 100 works, notably The Ideas of the Citizens of the Virtuous City. But these unorthodox works no more belong to Islam than Voltaire belongs to Christianity. He was in Moslem culture but not of it, indeed opposed to its orthodox core. He examples the pattern we see again and again: the best Moslems, whether judged by intellectual or political achievement, are usually the least Moslem.
The Moslem mainstream of this time, on the other hand, emphasized rigid Koranic orthodoxy and deployed Greek philosophy and science solely to buttress its authority. "They were rationalists in so far as they fell back on Greek philosophy for their metaphysical and physical explanations of phenomena; still, it was their aim to keep within the limits of orthodox belief." But when the thinkers went too far in their free inquiry into the secrets of nature, paying little attention to the authority of the Koran, they aroused suspicion of the rulers both in North Africa and Spain, as well as in the East. Persecution, exile, and death were frequent punishments suffered by the philosophers of Islam whose writings did not conform to the canon.
On the other side of the Empire, in Spain, Averroës exercised much influence on both Jewish and Christian thinkers with his interpretations of Aristotle. While mostly faithful to Aristotle’s method, he found the Aristotelian "prime mover" in Allah, the universal First Cause. His writings brought him into political disfavor and he was banished until shortly before his death, while many of his works in logic and metaphysics had been consigned to the flames. He left no school.
From Spain the Arabic philosophic literature was translated into Hebrew and Latin, which contributed to the development of modern European philosophy. In Egypt around the same time, Moses Maimonides (a Jew) and Ibn Khaldun made their contribution. A Christian, Constantine "the African," a native of Carthage, translated medical works from Arabic into Latin, thus introducing Greek medicine to the West. His translations of Hippocrates and Galen first gave the West a view of Greek medicine as a whole.
The "golden age" of Islamic art lasted from AD 750 to the mid-11th century, when ceramics, glass, metalwork, textiles, illuminated manuscripts, and woodwork flourished. Lustered glass became the greatest Islamic contribution to ceramics. Manuscript illumination became an important and greatly respected art, and miniature painting flourished in Iran. Calligraphy, an essential aspect of written Arabic, developed in manuscripts and architectural decoration.
In the exact sciences the contribution of Al-Khwarzimi, mathematician and astronomer, was considerable. Like Euclid, he wrote mathematical books that collected and arranged the discoveries of earlier mathematicians. His "Book of Integration and Equation" is a compilation of rules for solving linear and quadratic equations, as well as problems of geometry and proportion. Its translation into Latin in the 12th century provided the link between the great Hindu mathematicians and European scholars. A corruption of the book’s title resulted in the word algebra; a corruption of the author’s own name resulted in the term algorithm.
The problem with turning this list of intellectual achievements into a convincing "Islamic" golden age is that whatever flourished, did so not by reason of Islam but in spite of Islam. Moslems overran societies (Persian, Greek, Egyptian, Byzantine, Syrian, Jewish) that possessed intellectual sophistication in their own right and failed to completely destroy their cultures. To give it the credit for what the remnants of these cultures achieved is like crediting the Red Army for the survival of Chopin in Warsaw in 1970! Islam per se never encouraged science, in the sense of disinterested enquiry, because the only knowledge it accepts is religious knowledge.
You can know what land someyhing was invented in. With proper records you can know who invented it. Put heresay about thing over 700 years ago WITHOUT impartial back-up is not established 'fact'. But nobody has proved iSSlam responsible for inventing anything. Many say they invented nothing.
Well, first, impartial back-up isn't very relieble back-up. When the Muslims invent something that didn't have a base befor their try of invation, they invented it by themselvs. Simple logic.
No. Non-muSSlims that they conquered invented it. Just like the 'great soviet (or nazi-german) scientific achievements'........all done by Jews
And culturally....food, dance, language, traditions etc.
Turks of Turkey are very diffrent, but other Turk people that converted to Islam has "forget" their pre-Islamic-pagan history and started to see themselvs as Arab Muslims. Islam was in it's beggining an ethnic religion just like Judaism but when time passed it became multi-ethnic/race religion. Islam's culture is based on Arab culture, that's why people that hold this religion are staying far behined while other advence. When non-Arab Muslims hold Islamic culture, it's not Islamic culture only, but it's mainly.
South East iSSlamic culture is about as 'arab' as Irish-catholic culture is Itallian.
What you said before.
Where did I said "it's not true iSSlam, it's a religion of peace....blah blah blah" ?
You said (with regard to oppression and violence)....I didn't say it was due Islam, it was due to Muslims.
[/color] That amounts to the same thing.
That's like CAIR trying to claim terrorism isn't real iSSlam. What 99% of muSSlims all over the world do IS iSSlam. What the majority of Catholics do IS catholicism. To claim otherwise is taqqiya.
Muslims of the golden age are not modern-day Muslims.
They're the same but with different weapons and no aeroplanes to hijack.
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ugh...im just going to go back 600 years, and kill all those apparent muslim "inventors". In Medieval 2, i nfact, ill just destroy all of islam, and save the world a heck of a lot of trouble. Playing as the Byzantium empire...giving our Serbian brothers all the glory :)
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Placing a high value on personal freedom is not 'liberalism' only. Conservatives do this too.
What separates eastern and western culture is not clothing, pop music or household appliances. It is a mindset. Eg: Chinese will happily trade-off personal freedom and free-speach for prosperity. Westerners NEVER will contemplate such a thing.
Westerners will place the elderly in nursing homes so they won't be burdoned with them. That idea is repugnant to asians.
In an asian household, the father is an undisputed ruler who is rarely questioned and NEVER argued with. In western households decisions are made more collectively.
To simply lable a culture eastern or western on shallow, surface appearances is foolish. It is the deeper core values that determine culture.
I live in the asia/pacific region. I've met and worked with more chinese than you'll ever meet in your life. My great great grandfather was a full blood chinaman. My grandfather (quarter cast chinese) spoke fluent cantonese and spent his career travelling throughout South Asia on business. Now YOU'RE telling ME about chinese culture!
Placing a high value on personal freedom is liberalism only, it called Right-wing liberlism, "Pure Liberalism" and, more commonly, Right-libertarianism, which is very simmilar to the Conservative parties idea.
When we were talking about weastern states in Asia, and Chinese (and Japanese) are weastern, I was talking about the non-poor Chinese and Japanese and Asians in general who hold weastern thinking or mindset. Those are the people who made China, Japan, Singapore, Taiwan and other states to what they are today: strong, rich and advenced states. The poor Chinese who live in what called today Second China, means, "China" that the profits of the 1990' Chinese free market reforms passed over tham, are still holding in Confucius' Philosophy that says that the indevidual is not in a conflict with the collective intereses so the indevidual have restrain himself to get into a harmony with the collective.
BTW, do you have diagonal eyes or any other Asian physical features ?
That's just an "ist" or "ism" label. iSSlam was always oppressive and cruel.
Every culture befor the 18th century was, the thing is they stucked there! But reletively the Muslims were better than the Christians.
If it moves neither forward nor backward, it's arrested or stagnated.
The problem is that no culture ever stalled unless it was in a lone Island and never got out of the tribial culture. Do you have any historical exemple that show that non-tribial culture stalled. The Chinese were in moving backward procces and without the west they would have been turning into Africa. Because of the wars inside China and the political explosive that there is, was and there will be in China, wars will always happen, and without the west and the Chinese communist all the Chinese culture would have destroyed.
***long qoute about the scientists***.
It is not the point, it's irrelevent if the Islamic scientists were very religiouse or less religiouse. The Islamic first dynesty was Muslim only in formal terms, and the Bedouins' question of being "real" Muslims is still debated in Islam. The thing here is that Islamic civillazation was the one that developed those scientists. Let me remark: Islamic culture in the 13th century was Arab, Greek, Persian, Jewish, Berber, Babylonian culture, so the claim that it wasn't Islamic civillazation is nonesense because then all this cultures were an integral part of Islamic culture.
Today's Islamic culture is Arab mostly because today's Islam is a replacement and an alternative form of Arab nationalis, which developed Islamism in general and Wahabbism in particular.
No. Non-muSSlims that they conquered invented it. Just like the 'great soviet (or nazi-german) scientific achievements'........all done by Jews
No, they were Arabs and Muslims of non-Arab-Muslims who went through "Mista'irab" procces, which is a procces of Non-Muslims who became Muslim, started to talk Arabic and adopted the Arab culture. Espacielly because the Arabs had spaciel rights, but after that all Muslims had the same rights.
You said (with regard to oppression and violence)....
I just read my previous comments and didn't find a thing like that...
That amounts to the same thing.
No, it isn't. As Christians were violence in the dark ages, Christianety is very not-voilence religion so Christians and Christianety is not always the same is Muslims and Islam is not always the same.
They're the same but with different weapons and no aeroplanes to hijack.
When did the majoraty of Muslims in the golden-age were so violence ?
ugh...im just going to go back 600 years, and kill all those apparent muslim "inventors". In Medieval 2, i nfact, ill just destroy all of islam, and save the world a heck of a lot of trouble. Playing as the Byzantium empire...giving our Serbian brothers all the glory
And I would have destroy the Christians who unleashed the Crusades who killed almost ALL Jews in Eress Yisrael and many many Jews inside Europe and the Middle East.
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ugh...im just going to go back 600 years, and kill all those apparent muslim "inventors". In Medieval 2, i nfact, ill just destroy all of islam, and save the world a heck of a lot of trouble. Playing as the Byzantium empire...giving our Serbian brothers all the glory :)
;)
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Concerning this discussion about iSSlam being good or bad...
you could have opened a speacial topic for it,
don't you think, Brothers ?
???
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ugh...im just going to go back 600 years, and kill all those apparent muslim "inventors". In Medieval 2, i nfact, ill just destroy all of islam, and save the world a heck of a lot of trouble. Playing as the Byzantium empire...giving our Serbian brothers all the glory :)
;)
More likely to Manzikert era of XI century, no bizantine defeat against seljuk Turks, no crusades, no Jewish pogroms, and no schism among christians after sacking of Constantinopole. I play Bizantines in XIV century and with Armenians managed to crash the Ottomans and islamic mongols, my Serbian alies (my emperor got the serbian princess as wife) got Macedonia and Albania, and I got rid of Venetian and Genuans "helpers" from Greece by sending the ortodox priests to initiate popular revolts which in turn I "helped" them to crash taking the teritory for myself this my version of Soviet style "bratnia pomoc". ::) Next I will alie myself with Poland and take Hungary. O0
BTW it was hell of the fun to scrush the "croat rebels" in Raguza. :::D
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ugh...im just going to go back 600 years, and kill all those apparent muslim "inventors". In Medieval 2, i nfact, ill just destroy all of islam, and save the world a heck of a lot of trouble. Playing as the Byzantium empire...giving our Serbian brothers all the glory :)
;)
More likely to Manzikert era of XI century, no bizantine defeat against seljuk Turks, no crusades, no Jewish pogroms, and no schism among christians after sacking of Constantinopole. I play Bizantines in XIV century and with Armenians managed to crash the Ottomans and islamic mongols, my Serbian alies (my emperor got the serbian princess as wife) got Macedonia and Albania, and I got rid of Venetian and Genuans "helpers" from Greece by sending the ortodox priests to initiate popular revolts which in turn I "helped" them to crash taking the teritory for myself this my version of Soviet style "bratnia pomoc". ::) Next I will alie myself with Poland and take Hungary. O0
BTW it was hell of the fun to scrush the "croat rebels" in Raguza. :::D
Congratulations Me Lord.
I myself have just sacked those venician catholic dogs (no offence-it's just a battle report), by taking all their territories, on the italian ground, and mediteranian, liberating my Serbian Brothers from the demnic inquisitions. At the moment, my priests are converting the italians to the true faith. I shall initiate an army of religious, to crush the croation pigs! We have been fortunate, as we have kept the turks of europe...but europe has only repaid us with the hungarians and their salamis for weapons, will trample under General Husar's hoofs. I shall station my main army in venice for the tme being, to recuperate, as we lost 1/3 of our army-once reinforced, i shall take sofia, and eventually budapest!
As long as we keep the turks out of our business...and maintain our stronghold on asia minor, which we control a fair bit.
GLORY AND VICTORY!!!!