Rabbi Ovadia Yosef question (NOT a flame)

[DownwithIslam]

R' Yosef ruled that only can only give away land for true peace.  He was anti-"disengagement."

True Peace? That entire premise is invalid. Did he forget that we are dealing wih muslims who murdered jews before their was even a jewish state.

It's a hypothetical ruling...

Besides, Yosef is still sitting in the govt so he clearly supports evil.

No he isn't...

Last I checked Shas didn't quit the govt so yosef is still stuffing his pocket with pork while kassams are landing on jewish homes.

[OdKahaneChai]

R' Yosef ruled that only can only give away land for true peace.  He was anti-"disengagement."

True Peace? That entire premise is invalid. Did he forget that we are dealing wih muslims who murdered jews before their was even a jewish state.

It's a hypothetical ruling...

Besides, Yosef is still sitting in the govt so he clearly supports evil.

No he isn't...

Last I checked Shas didn't quit the govt so yosef is still stuffing his pocket with pork while kassams are landing on jewish homes.

R' Yosef is not in the gov't.  Shas is...

As to why they are, I have no idea.  I don't support Shas, but I really don't like all of the Loshon Hora towards R' Yosef on this forum.

[jdl4ever]

Jdl4ever, did they visit the prostitute with their whole chasidic garb on or did they put their streimel in the closet and put on some cargoes before they headed out to the whore?

I don't have the answer.  My father doesn't like to talk about it as he just told me recently about this. 

I personally have probably seen a married Chussid in the full garb with a Polish mistress though about 3 years ago; although I don't have definite proof but merely circumstantial evidence.  He had a complicated scheme so his wife won't find out about it.  He owned a catering business and told his family and us that he needed to buy a second apartment close to the business since he is so busy.  Well we had an apartment in that building we were moving out of and the guy wanted to buy some of our used stuff to fill his new apartment.  Him and his Polish female worker in his business which was really his mistress were choosing what they wanted for their apartment or bachelor pad.  Interesting how the worker was choosing everything for the apartment like she was going to live there and acted like such a good friend of the Chossud.  My family saw the same thing and told me that she was definitely his mistress; I withhold judgment without definite proof.   

Anyways, back to the thread about Shas.

[DownwithIslam]

R' Yosef ruled that only can only give away land for true peace.  He was anti-"disengagement."

True Peace? That entire premise is invalid. Did he forget that we are dealing wih muslims who murdered jews before their was even a jewish state.

It's a hypothetical ruling...

Besides, Yosef is still sitting in the govt so he clearly supports evil.

No he isn't...

Last I checked Shas didn't quit the govt so yosef is still stuffing his pocket with pork while kassams are landing on jewish homes.

R' Yosef is not in the gov't.  Shas is...

As to why they are, I have no idea.  I don't support Shas, but I really don't like all of the Loshon Hora towards R' Yosef on this forum.

odkahanechai, Mr yosef is the spriritual leader of shas, he is the head of its council of torah sages and has the final say in all the party's actions. In other words, he is sitting in smolmerts govt. I would be more upset at the fact that yosefs positions clearly endanger jewish life than anyone here talking badly about him.

[DownwithIslam]

Jdl4ever, did they visit the prostitute with their whole chasidic garb on or did they put their streimel in the closet and put on some cargoes before they headed out to the whore?

I don't have the answer.  My father doesn't like to talk about it as he just told me recently about this. 

I personally have probably seen a married Chussid in the full garb with a Polish mistress though about 3 years ago; although I don't have definite proof but merely circumstantial evidence.  He had a complicated scheme so his wife won't find out about it.  He owned a catering business and told his family and us that he needed to buy a second apartment close to the business since he is so busy.  Well we had an apartment in that building we were moving out of and the guy wanted to buy some of our used stuff to fill his new apartment.  Him and his Polish female worker in his business which was really his mistress were choosing what they wanted for their apartment or bachelor pad.  Interesting how the worker was choosing everything for the apartment like she was going to live there and acted like such a good friend of the Chossud.  My family saw the same thing and told me that she was definitely his mistress; I withhold judgment without definite proof.   

Anyways, back to the thread about Shas.

Thats so interesting. These are the same people who used to call in to Larry king when Rabbi Kahane was a guest and tell him that he is not loyal to america when in fact these chasdic monsters are not loyal to anyone. Jdl4ever, I was wondering if you have any comments to make on shas and Mr yosef. Maybe you can help me convince people here that he is a danger.

[jdl4ever]

Obviously I think Shas is an evil party.  They merely want hand outs from the government to support their Yeshivot and themselves and are willing to do anything to keep the money flowing.  They really believe in right wing Torah ideology in theory but not in practice since they bend it whenever the government threatens to stop the money train.  That's why you hear all these riddles, u turns and contradictory statements from the party.  They try to be as right wing as they could get without stopping the money train and they try to make excuses to justify their evil behavior by saying that they are really making the gov't more right wing by not giving in to everything the leftists want; like they make a big deal that they will pull out from the gov't to make a headline and claim they are really making the left do things their way.  In reality the gov't is changed very little by their presence and every major evil thing the gov't does is eventually supported by Shas either indirectly by not pulling out or directly.  But they are no different than any other party in Israel as the whole system is corrupt. 

I don't call Orthodox Rabbis derogatory names in public since it sends a bad message that you could treat Rabbis disrespectfully.  I just will say that R' Ovadia Yosef is against the Torah in my opinion.  When I saw him in synagague and had the opportunity to shake his hand, I did not go to shake his hand.

[Yisrael]

JDL4EVER, I have to agree with you that the problems you address exist within the Chassidic community. However, most of the Chassidim here do not engage in that kind of behavior.

Every tree grows a couple of rotten fruit. It isn't fair to paint a whole community with one brush.

The truth is, every sect has it's rotten fruit. The "Religious Zionists" have their share of rotten people too. So do the "Moder Orthodox" and everyone else.

DownWithIslam, Ovadia Yosef thinks that he has his own way of saving the Jewish people. He thinks that as long as the Israeli government will continue to support his Yeshivot and communities, that is all that is important. I'm not sure if he is just plain 'ole stupid, evil, or simply sorely mistaken.

Either way, history supports our position here at JTF.

[DownwithIslam]

Obviously I think Shas is an evil party.  They merely want hand outs from the government to support their Yeshivot and themselves and are willing to do anything to keep the money flowing.  They really believe in right wing Torah ideology in theory but not in practice since they bend it whenever the government threatens to stop the money train.  That's why you hear all these riddles, u turns and contradictory statements from the party.  They try to be as right wing as they could get without stopping the money train and they try to make excuses to justify their evil behavior by saying that they are really making the gov't more right wing by not giving in to everything the leftists want; like they make a big deal that they will pull out from the gov't to make a headline and claim they are really making the left do things their way.  In reality the gov't is changed very little by their presence and every major evil thing the gov't does is eventually supported by Shas either indirectly by not pulling out or directly.  But they are no different than any other party in Israel as the whole system is corrupt. 

I don't call Orthodox Rabbis derogatory names in public since it sends a bad message that you could treat Rabbis disrespectfully.  I just will say that R' Ovadia Yosef is against the Torah in my opinion.  When I saw him in synagague and had the opportunity to shake his hand, I did not go to shake his hand.

I am sure you didn't miss much by not shaking his hand. That hand his touched more stolen money that most people on this earth. The fact that he poses as a rabbi is a chilul hashem. His evil decrees have been made famous and they send a bad message fooling people into thinking that surrendering land is kosher.

[DownwithIslam]

JDL4EVER, I have to agree with you that the problems you address exist within the Chassidic community. However, most of the Chassidim here do not engage in that kind of behavior.

Every tree grows a couple of rotten fruit. It isn't fair to paint a whole community with one brush.

The truth is, every sect has it's rotten fruit. The "Religious Zionists" have their share of rotten people too. So do the "Moder Orthodox" and everyone else.

DownWithIslam, Ovadia Yosef thinks that he has his own way of saving the Jewish people. He thinks that as long as the Israeli government will continue to support his Yeshivot and communities, that is all that is important. I'm not sure if he is just plain 'ole stupid, evil, or simply sorely mistaken.

Either way, history supports our position here at JTF.

Yisrael, I believe that Yosef is plain evil. Endangering jewish life to stuff your pockets is the most vile kappo like thing on earth.

[Yisrael]

Yisrael, I believe that Yosef is plain evil.

You are prob right.

[Lubab]

It does not mean he is plain evil. It means he's doing something evil. Big difference.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

It does not mean he is plain evil. It means he's doing something evil. Big difference.

agreed.

[Yisrael]

It does not mean he is plain evil. It means he's doing something evil. Big difference.

I hear ya...

Question: How much evil must you do to be evil?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The whole thing is backwards. He claims we should give away land to save Jewish life, because the life is more important than the land. It is true that the life is more important than the land, however, giving away land endangers all the Jewish lives there!

So his premise is right, but his conclusion is downright dangerous to all of us.

I thought he meant that it is preferable to spare Arab lives than to go to war with the Arabs in order to keep Jewish land. Are you sure he does not care about Arabs?

[Lubab]

The whole thing is backwards. He claims we should give away land to save Jewish life, because the life is more important than the land. It is true that the life is more important than the land, however, giving away land endangers all the Jewish lives there!

So his premise is right, but his conclusion is downright dangerous to all of us.

I thought he meant that it is preferable to spare Arab lives than to go to war with the Arabs in order to keep Jewish land. Are you sure he does not care about Arabs?

Pretty sure that's not what his argument is about.

The Rebbe a few times did, however, say that not giving away land is better for the Arabs too.

[Lubab]

It does not mean he is plain evil. It means he's doing something evil. Big difference.

I hear ya...

Question: How much evil must you do to be evil?

Truth? Really everybody has SOME good in them. The good might be so little and the bad so great that we need to kill them, but nobody is really pure evil. Only in the realm of the angels is there pure evil or even pure good. 

[Lubab]

It does not mean he is plain evil. It means he's doing something evil. Big difference.

I hear ya...

Question: How much evil must you do to be evil?

Truth? Really everybody has SOME good in them. The good might be so little and the bad so great that we need to kill them, but nobody is really pure evil. Only in the realm of the angels is there pure evil. 

Maybe we'll go by the majority. But is the majority of Ovadiaya Yoseph evil? I'm not so sure.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

For the record, I didn't mean at all to insult or attack Ovadia Yosef. I think most of you know I don't care for the man, but I did not mean to start a flamewar about him--I merely wanted to know his basis for his professions of wanting to "spare lives" (which I took to mean Arab).

I am not responsible for the fighting that has taken place here, but then again, ROY has a long history of creating great internecine quarrels amongst Jewry with his extremely controversial judgments.

[DownwithIslam]

It does not mean he is plain evil. It means he's doing something evil. Big difference.

I hear ya...

Question: How much evil must you do to be evil?

Truth? Really everybody has SOME good in them. The good might be so little and the bad so great that we need to kill them, but nobody is really pure evil. Only in the realm of the angels is there pure evil. 

Maybe we'll go by the majority. But is the majority of Ovadiaya Yoseph evil? I'm not so sure.

Lubab, I don't believe any part of Ovadia Yosef is good. Anyone who knowingly puts his own pocket before the lives of jews is a beast.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Pretty sure that's not what his argument is about.

The Rebbe a few times did, however, say that not giving away land is better for the Arabs too.

But he was the driving force behind getting religious Jews to sign off on the Oslo abomination (which was, of course, all about surrendering Jewish land to the monsters).

I also am pretty sure he told his Sefardim audiences that Arafat was "his friend" and could be trusted.

That is why I have reason to believe he sought to spare Arab lives.

[OdKahaneChai]

R' Yosef ruled that only can only give away land for true peace.  He was anti-"disengagement."

True Peace? That entire premise is invalid. Did he forget that we are dealing wih muslims who murdered jews before their was even a jewish state.

It's a hypothetical ruling...

Besides, Yosef is still sitting in the govt so he clearly supports evil.

No he isn't...

Last I checked Shas didn't quit the govt so yosef is still stuffing his pocket with pork while kassams are landing on jewish homes.

R' Yosef is not in the gov't.  Shas is...

As to why they are, I have no idea.  I don't support Shas, but I really don't like all of the Loshon Hora towards R' Yosef on this forum.

odkahanechai, Mr yosef is the spriritual leader of shas, he is the head of its council of torah sages and has the final say in all the party's actions. In other words, he is sitting in smolmerts govt. I would be more upset at the fact that yosefs positions clearly endanger jewish life than anyone here talking badly about him.

Let me ask you something:

Olmert, right now, has a slim 66 - 54 seat majority in the Knesset.  What do you think would happen if Shas, with its 11 seats, leaves the government?

[Dr. Dan]

R' Yosef ruled that only can only give away land for true peace.  He was anti-"disengagement."

True Peace? That entire premise is invalid. Did he forget that we are dealing wih muslims who murdered jews before their was even a jewish state.

It's a hypothetical ruling...

Besides, Yosef is still sitting in the govt so he clearly supports evil.

No he isn't...

Last I checked Shas didn't quit the govt so yosef is still stuffing his pocket with pork while kassams are landing on jewish homes.

R' Yosef is not in the gov't.  Shas is...

As to why they are, I have no idea.  I don't support Shas, but I really don't like all of the Loshon Hora towards R' Yosef on this forum.

odkahanechai, Mr yosef is the spriritual leader of shas, he is the head of its council of torah sages and has the final say in all the party's actions. In other words, he is sitting in smolmerts govt. I would be more upset at the fact that yosefs positions clearly endanger jewish life than anyone here talking badly about him.

Let me ask you something:

Olmert, right now, has a slim 66 - 54 seat majority in the Knesset.  What do you think would happen if Shas, with its 11 seats, leaves the government?

a 55 - 54 majority?

[OdKahaneChai]

R' Yosef ruled that only can only give away land for true peace.  He was anti-"disengagement."

True Peace? That entire premise is invalid. Did he forget that we are dealing wih muslims who murdered jews before their was even a jewish state.

It's a hypothetical ruling...

Besides, Yosef is still sitting in the govt so he clearly supports evil.

No he isn't...

Last I checked Shas didn't quit the govt so yosef is still stuffing his pocket with pork while kassams are landing on jewish homes.

R' Yosef is not in the gov't.  Shas is...

As to why they are, I have no idea.  I don't support Shas, but I really don't like all of the Loshon Hora towards R' Yosef on this forum.

odkahanechai, Mr yosef is the spriritual leader of shas, he is the head of its council of torah sages and has the final say in all the party's actions. In other words, he is sitting in smolmerts govt. I would be more upset at the fact that yosefs positions clearly endanger jewish life than anyone here talking badly about him.

Let me ask you something:

Olmert, right now, has a slim 66 - 54 seat majority in the Knesset.  What do you think would happen if Shas, with its 11 seats, leaves the government?

a 55 - 54 majority?

Guess again...

[Dr. Dan]

R' Yosef ruled that only can only give away land for true peace.  He was anti-"disengagement."

True Peace? That entire premise is invalid. Did he forget that we are dealing wih muslims who murdered jews before their was even a jewish state.

It's a hypothetical ruling...

Besides, Yosef is still sitting in the govt so he clearly supports evil.

No he isn't...

Last I checked Shas didn't quit the govt so yosef is still stuffing his pocket with pork while kassams are landing on jewish homes.

R' Yosef is not in the gov't.  Shas is...

As to why they are, I have no idea.  I don't support Shas, but I really don't like all of the Loshon Hora towards R' Yosef on this forum.

odkahanechai, Mr yosef is the spriritual leader of shas, he is the head of its council of torah sages and has the final say in all the party's actions. In other words, he is sitting in smolmerts govt. I would be more upset at the fact that yosefs positions clearly endanger jewish life than anyone here talking badly about him.

Let me ask you something:

Olmert, right now, has a slim 66 - 54 seat majority in the Knesset.  What do you think would happen if Shas, with its 11 seats, leaves the government?

a 55 - 54 majority?

Guess again...

a 66-54 majority but with more kickbacks shas causes?

[OdKahaneChai]

R' Yosef ruled that only can only give away land for true peace.  He was anti-"disengagement."

True Peace? That entire premise is invalid. Did he forget that we are dealing wih muslims who murdered jews before their was even a jewish state.

It's a hypothetical ruling...

Besides, Yosef is still sitting in the govt so he clearly supports evil.

No he isn't...

Last I checked Shas didn't quit the govt so yosef is still stuffing his pocket with pork while kassams are landing on jewish homes.

R' Yosef is not in the gov't.  Shas is...

As to why they are, I have no idea.  I don't support Shas, but I really don't like all of the Loshon Hora towards R' Yosef on this forum.

odkahanechai, Mr yosef is the spriritual leader of shas, he is the head of its council of torah sages and has the final say in all the party's actions. In other words, he is sitting in smolmerts govt. I would be more upset at the fact that yosefs positions clearly endanger jewish life than anyone here talking badly about him.

Let me ask you something:

Olmert, right now, has a slim 66 - 54 seat majority in the Knesset.  What do you think would happen if Shas, with its 11 seats, leaves the government?

a 55 - 54 majority?

Guess again...

a 66-54 majority but with more kickbacks shas causes?

No. If Shas pulls out, that brings Olmerts coalition down to 55 seats.  But, instantaneously, Meretz will join in order to keep the gov't together.  Meretz has 5 seats.  That would make it 60 - 60.  You need 61 votes to pass a No Confidence Motion.