Author Topic: I propose a security wing of the JTF  (Read 3584 times)

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Offline White Israelite

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I propose a security wing of the JTF
« on: February 11, 2008, 10:57:52 PM »
I am proposing a security wing of the JTF, KansasJew and myself have talked several times in regards that many Jews are unarmed and have no desire or find it impossible to arm themselves. Cities with high Jewish populations are frequently vulnerable to MuSSlim and Nazi attacks. There have been a few rogue shootings in the past, and while getting a CCW permit is difficult in areas like New York City, it is possible. I think security would be a good enough reason to be able to get a CCW permit in New York as it is a "reason".

I think security of Jewish people is necessary and should be considered. I would like to discuss this in more detail as I think the future will be very difficult. While many Jews on this forum including myself are armed, we can only protect so many people and I would hope others would be willing to protect fellow Jews who do not have this protection. We cannot rely on police and even security will not be sufficient to make Jews 100 percent secure, but it will certainly decrease anti-semitic attacks in areas (similar to bouncers at night clubs).

If anyone is interested, feel free to post and perhaps we can organize something, I hope others will take this into consideration as the JTF should have a security wing of some sort, we talk the talk, do we walk the walk?

Offline ASHISH

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2008, 11:05:18 PM »
I am proposing a security wing of the JTF, KansasJew and myself have talked several times in regards that many Jews are unarmed and have no desire or find it impossible to arm themselves. Cities with high Jewish populations are frequently vulnerable to MuSSlim and Nazi attacks. There have been a few rogue shootings in the past, and while getting a CCW permit is difficult in areas like New York City, it is possible. I think security would be a good enough reason to be able to get a CCW permit in New York as it is a "reason".

I think security of Jewish people is necessary and should be considered. I would like to discuss this in more detail as I think the future will be very difficult. While many Jews on this forum including myself are armed, we can only protect so many people and I would hope others would be willing to protect fellow Jews who do not have this protection. We cannot rely on police and even security will not be sufficient to make Jews 100 percent secure, but it will certainly decrease anti-semitic attacks in areas (similar to bouncers at night clubs).

If anyone is interested, feel free to post and perhaps we can organize something, I hope others will take this into consideration as the JTF should have a security wing of some sort, we talk the talk, do we walk the walk?

arnt jews in israel allowed to carry assault rifles

Offline Ari

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2008, 11:05:51 PM »
Sounds like a good idea! O0

Offline White Israelite

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2008, 11:08:43 PM »
I am proposing a security wing of the JTF, KansasJew and myself have talked several times in regards that many Jews are unarmed and have no desire or find it impossible to arm themselves. Cities with high Jewish populations are frequently vulnerable to MuSSlim and Nazi attacks. There have been a few rogue shootings in the past, and while getting a CCW permit is difficult in areas like New York City, it is possible. I think security would be a good enough reason to be able to get a CCW permit in New York as it is a "reason".

I think security of Jewish people is necessary and should be considered. I would like to discuss this in more detail as I think the future will be very difficult. While many Jews on this forum including myself are armed, we can only protect so many people and I would hope others would be willing to protect fellow Jews who do not have this protection. We cannot rely on police and even security will not be sufficient to make Jews 100 percent secure, but it will certainly decrease anti-semitic attacks in areas (similar to bouncers at night clubs).

If anyone is interested, feel free to post and perhaps we can organize something, I hope others will take this into consideration as the JTF should have a security wing of some sort, we talk the talk, do we walk the walk?

arnt jews in israel allowed to carry assault rifles

No, only if they are active reserve and the rifles belong to the state of Israel, not individuals. Individual right to have guns in Israel is VERY strict, yet in Palestine, you can have any gun you want (albeit a bit expensive)

Offline White Israelite

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2008, 11:17:12 PM »
Anyways, I know some pistol instructors in New York City, anyone who's interested in doing this please do reply. I will be informing Kansas Jew about the thread (or he'll probably see it when he logs in) as we've definitely talked it over and some of the things JDL did to protect Jews. There doesn't appear to be a well known group like this anymore. Although the Kahanist movements are still active, any militant wing (we want to avoid this if possible) or security wing seems to have disappeared.

We need something physically involved in protecting Jewish lives and interests.

What good is a movement if we have to rely on others? We should never rely on police or the government to protect us and that is why I would like to get something rolling where we can have Jews who are trained in protecting fellow Jews.

I am looking into red cross so I can learn CPR and all of that stuff. I have read a lot into survival and Kansas Jew has been assisting me in getting involved in martial arts. Can you imagine if we had a large scale security wing of Jews who had knowledge in necessary procedures within the JTF? We have Jews with this knowledge, the problem is we don't have the organization of fellow Jews who have this knowledge so they are kind of sprawled out here and there.

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2008, 11:23:18 PM »
I think its a great idea, since alot of you live very close to each other  O0

Offline White Israelite

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2008, 11:25:38 PM »
I think its a great idea, since alot of you live very close to each other  O0

I live no where near any Jews or near JTF members, I live out in redneck ville, I didn't choose to move here but I don't plan to leave either.

Offline Ari

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2008, 11:26:10 PM »
One concern, does law enforcement try to bust your chops when you carry a gun?

Offline Tina Greco - Melbourne

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2008, 11:28:04 PM »
I think its a great idea, since alot of you live very close to each other  O0

I live no where near any Jews or near JTF members, I live out in redneck ville, I didn't choose to move here but I don't plan to leave either.

I was meaning more the ones in New York

Offline White Israelite

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2008, 11:31:18 PM »
One concern, does law enforcement try to bust your chops when you carry a gun?

No, they don't care, sometimes if I get pulled over they will ask if I have a gun and I will comply.

Concealed means concealed, no one knows your carrying it and as long as you have the CCW permit , then you are legally allowed to carry it with you. (Using it is a different matter).

New York City pretty much requires a reason, which is why I think a security wing of JTF would be sufficient enough reason for Jews to be able to obtain a CCW permit and a firearm.

Offline KansasJew

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2008, 01:57:10 AM »
I posted earlier and I do not see my posting. >:(

Anyway a Security Detachment with a Incorporated Business License and a training program in place would work in all 50 states. It would be a professional Organization...Made up of Volunteers and if it can be done Paid Positions on an hourly basis.

I will check into a Non Profit status for a security detachment if that can be done. Donations can be taken to cover cost of training, equipment and payroll and expenses.
Remember there has to be strong silent men on the walls at night to protect the people. Be Strong but not aggressive. Be Peaceful but not weak. Defend the Jewish People at all cost.

newman

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2008, 02:26:41 AM »
If you form a trading company called JTF security and it's members become security guard 'employees' (paid $1 per month) there's no reason you can't have pistol liscences/CCWs etc.

Offline mord

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2008, 04:14:55 AM »
Quote
New York City pretty much requires a reason, which is why I think a security wing of JTF would be sufficient enough reason for Jews to be able to obtain a CCW permit and a firearm.
I can carry but for a person to get  CCW permit in N.Y. is close to ipossible unless your very rich
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline abdithefaithful

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2008, 11:26:49 AM »
Cohen brings up a very compelling issue. It's no secret that those of us who are supportive of JTF and its values are at extremely higher risk of assault and death than the rest of the "complacent" population. Once you publicly express the views and values of JTF to people who you might not know as well as you should, you are putting your life in GRAVE DANGER, because believe it or not, there's actually low-lifes out there in society who dare to label us as "extreme radicals", imagine THAT!?!?!... Everyday I pray PROFUSELY for the safety and security of our beloved and cherished leader Chaim and ALL the dedicated members of JTF... I know that we are a group who have become an "inconvenience" to our demon enemies... I know that expressing our beliefs makes us and our families far more vulnerable to "serious injury" and even possible "death", but we're willing to make that sacrifice--- we're willing to fight for the righteous beliefs we hold so dearly...   



If you don't like The Great Chaim, then you sure as heck wouldn't like me!

Offline White Israelite

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2008, 06:39:50 PM »
article 400 of the new york state penal law article 400 deals with licensing and issuing.

Next thing is article 265.20 of the New York State penal law. That deals with possession ownership, and use of firearms to each criminal degree.

That's where they have to start, each county has it's own laws on licensing and concealment, and a lot of it depends on which judge is in office at that particular time, democrat, republican, anti-gun, pro gun, anti conceal, but issues licenses to carry.

Minimum Requirements, No violent felonies, federal law precludes all firearms ownership for any felony except non violent. Should someone have a non violent felony say a drunk driving situation, convicted, that becomes a felony, but if no one is injured, then you can request from the original convicting court "Certificate Of Release Of Disabilities", that's only for non violent felonies.

Certain misdemeanors like spousal abuse for example is automatic disqualification

State minimum, New York State Bearu of criminal investigations the FBI of the New York State Police, a New York state background psychological check as in mental health background information. An NCIS FBI criminal background check (Federal). That goes to the FBI.

6 sets of fingerprints, each on individual application, no duplicates, original, one will go to the original issuing agency, one will go to the judge, one will go to the investigating officer, and one set will stay with your license as it goes through the process. All of the references, minimum of 4 (state minimum), all your references will have to sign each individual application sheet. No photocopies. Original.

When the New York state stuff returns to the issuing agency and the federal stuff returns from the FBI and all that information along with the investing report and reference checks then that information from the issuing agency goes to a county judge or county judge level (in newyork city commision of police I think)  At that person, they have the yay or nay which is the end result, they either sign it or they don't. New York State has two kinds of licenses, a carry conceal, and on premises. Have to have a license to own anything in New York City.

Pretty sure somewhere in New York City, they require at minimum a NRA pistol safety class.

If your licensed outside of the city, cannot take your guns there without expressed permission, if you have your permit issued in the city, you can take it anywhere in the state.

10 years ago, when Rudy Guiliani was in office, the going rate for a license to carry was about 5000 dollars. You had to hire a lawyer to fight for you. Guiliani made it a adversarel process.

Bloomberg is even worse.

To do what we want to do, we have to start a agency, and liability insurance, no idea on the cost.

The agency would need to have a agent which would be the head of the training, and he would be the one who's sworn in, everyone else would work under him. There is definitely liability insurance involved.

Pretty much have to have a clean record. No domestic disputes, no divorces (yes i'm dead serious).

Offline bigdad5

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2008, 06:49:29 PM »
My name is mike AKA bigdad5.I have spoke with pilman and given him a vast amount of info about NYC CCW's If he with the info i have given can not help you then please contact him and ask for my ( HP) He is authorized to release it on a case by case question.

Your welcome people .
bigdad5

Offline KansasJew

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2008, 07:30:33 PM »
The concealed weapons permit should only be used by executive protection details and Undercover Intelligence and Re-conanise details.

I propose a Uniformed Security Detail....I have some great ideas on training, uniforms and equipment needed. The purpose of having a uniformed security detail is both for identification by the public but also to let those whom wish or attempt to do harm know the JTF is there.

I also will look into some training programs for the officers. I know a few instructors in the Security and Executive Protection arena that could assist us.





Remember there has to be strong silent men on the walls at night to protect the people. Be Strong but not aggressive. Be Peaceful but not weak. Defend the Jewish People at all cost.

Offline KansasJew

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2008, 08:27:41 PM »
I am attempting to attend this summer two different courses on Executive Protection and Security Details...One in Florida and the other in California

So Lets see what I can bring back the one in Florida is run by a Former Secret Service Agent and the one in California is run by an Anti Terrorist Expert. Should be some excellent training. 
Remember there has to be strong silent men on the walls at night to protect the people. Be Strong but not aggressive. Be Peaceful but not weak. Defend the Jewish People at all cost.

Offline White Israelite

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2008, 12:43:45 PM »
Anyone else have interest in this?

Offline Merkava

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2008, 02:22:20 PM »
I am.

We should protect our felow brothers.
"We are in 1938, and Iran is Germany"


Offline KansasJew

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2008, 02:32:47 PM »
See my post in the my section I have a link to the program I am attending. If I can get a group of 12 that would work..However I will be going alone but I will still go...
Remember there has to be strong silent men on the walls at night to protect the people. Be Strong but not aggressive. Be Peaceful but not weak. Defend the Jewish People at all cost.

Offline mord

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2008, 02:44:50 PM »
My friend does this all the time he left a link to his my space here.Oh yes i do have experience    http://groups.myspace.com/fightingjew   







 http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=442.45   




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« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 02:58:47 PM by mord »
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Merkava

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2008, 04:08:21 PM »
Nice goup Mord !

BTW is that you with the shaved head and the beard?
"We are in 1938, and Iran is Germany"


Offline mord

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2008, 04:10:26 PM »
Nice goup Mord !

BTW is that you with the shaved head and the beard?
;D ;D no gene
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline Merkava

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Re: I propose a security wing of the JTF
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2008, 04:22:58 PM »
Nice goup Mord !

BTW is that you with the shaved head and the beard?
;D ;D no gene

What do you mean ?
"We are in 1938, and Iran is Germany"