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Lubab:
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 15, 2008, 01:57:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: lubab on February 14, 2008, 11:43:30 PM ---
Basically it's to the point where there's no reason to convert anymore. You can have it all and still be a gentile.
--- End quote ---
Oooh is that a hint for me?
I hope NOT because I get rather defensive when people I don't know try to "dissuade" me. Believe me, I've given other people on the forum a good talking to when they try to "dissuade" me
Some Gentiles already have a Jewish soul and yearn to return home. Say you were born a Gentile, would you not hurt and try to return? Beg G-d to make you a Jew every day? I agree to go dissuade those who want to "convert" for all the wrong reasons like to "get married" to their Jewish boy/girlfriend etc...they should be dissuaded (even I dissuade them), BUT not everyone who wants to go through gerut is the same, of us (very-very few) already have a Jewish soul. No one can dissuade those few gentiles who are honest and who G-d blessed with the Jewish spark.
No offense but you're wrong, in some (very few) cases when the gentile has the Jewish spark in them...they can't be gentiles and "have it all", they end up feeling rather empty and it HURTS a lot.
I had a whole speech planed out for this, in case it was referring to me. I saved it and might post it, but first I want to know if you were referring to me with the "there's no reason to convert anymore"
Thanks (I don't mean to be rude, but like I said, I get rather defensive when people talk about this to me ;) I hope you understand)
Thanks.
--- End quote ---
That's funny Mills. I didn't even realize how that comment was applicable to you, until you just mentioned this.
It sounds like you are one of the "unpersuadables". Don't get mad at the people trying to dissuade you, they're just doing their job.:)
Lubab:
--- Quote from: Scriabin on February 15, 2008, 01:06:50 AM ---Do you watch TV? If so, what are some of your favorite programs?
--- End quote ---
No. But everyone who knows me says I would love "The Office".
I will watch the occasional Family Guy clip on Youtube and I find that show hilarious.
When I was younger I used to watch t.v. and I loved Seinfeld and the Simpsons.
If we reach WAY back into childhood..."Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" every day after school.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 14, 2008, 09:09:25 PM ---
--- Quote from: lubab on February 14, 2008, 01:33:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 14, 2008, 11:40:02 AM ---
--- Quote from: lubab on February 14, 2008, 11:31:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 14, 2008, 11:23:58 AM ---
--- Quote from: lubab on February 14, 2008, 11:19:28 AM ---
--- Quote from: newman on February 14, 2008, 02:35:15 AM ---Lubab,
I read about some of the unsavory things required of female (Jewish) Mossad agents.
Is a Jewess breaking a mitzvah if she sleeps with a man to get information vital to save Jewish lives or to compromise an enemy of the Jewish State?
--- End quote ---
Need more info. Is this a married woman? Is this a Jewish man? Is this a married Jewish man? Is this a gentile man?
--- End quote ---
Typically a single Jewish female agent and a non-Jewish man sometimes married/sometimes not. ie: Female Mossad agent sleeping with EU beurocrat for vital information or somebody connected with a terror network to get info or ket close enough to kill etc.
--- End quote ---
And this would save a Jewish life? I would need to double check with a senior Rabbinic authority, but my instinct tells me this would be praiseworthy.
Look what Ester from the Purim story did.
--- End quote ---
It may not save a Jewish life 'directly' but vital information gained this way can lead to the location and killing of a terrorist or provide early warning of an attack on Israel. This sin of the flesh could 'indirectly' save dozens or even thousands of Jewish lives.
--- End quote ---
Yeah well that to me sounds a lot like what Queen Ester did. There was no gaurantee it would work. But she did it because we err on the side of saving lives in these cases (unless it's one of the big 3...but sex with a gentile is not one of thosesins for which we must sooner die than transgress).
--- End quote ---
Actually it would for a Jewish man, but for a women in the case of Ester it was different because a women (Ester in this case) is the passive one in this case, she isn't the one that "gives". That of course doesn't allow a women to have relations with a non-Jew (G-d forbid), or with a Jewish man that shes married to when she is nidda.
--- End quote ---
Good point. I believe you are correct.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 15, 2008, 09:11:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: lubab on February 15, 2008, 08:02:13 AM ---
That's funny Mills. I didn't even realize how that comment was applicable to you, until you just mentioned this.
It sounds like you are one of the "unpersuadables". Don't get mad at the people trying to dissuade you, they're just doing their job.:)
--- End quote ---
LOl. I guess I understand.
I think people should dissuade those who say they want to "convert" for all the wrong reasons like "I want to marry my Jewish girlfriend/boyfriend" "I'm interested in the lifestyle but don't plan on being religious" "I want to convert so I can make aliyah" "I'm just fascinated by Judaism" and other NON valid reasons like that!
I knew a woman who was "interested in the lifestyle", years later she thinks she's "Jewish" yet doesn't care at all for any laws, which is sad because it makes her son (of marriageable) age not be desirable since now his Jewishness is in question...obviously.
In these cases...dissuade away...and I usually join in the dissuasion and I have dissuaded people who have no clue what they're doing. To not dissuade them is dangerous because they can end up doing more harm than good.
But there are those gentiles who, like I said, already have the Jewish spark in them & every day they are not Jews, their soul suffers in so much pain, why add to their suffering? I recall 2 stories from Chabad that there was no dissuasion, they are too long though :(
If I see someone like that, who shows an extreme and sincere love of Judaism and I notice its in their soul...then I won't say a word to them. The dissuasion will be between them and their rabbi in private. Some people actually find it insulting, I mean, let's be honest....if you work for years to be part of a Jewish community, study so much, learn Hebrew, are soo advanced in learning and then out of nowhere a stranger waltzes in and tries to "dissuade" them? I DON'T THINK SO.
I don't think its always the job of everyone! Sometimes people should let the person's rabbi make the informed and private decisions. Let people try to make it their job with me, they won't be happy that's for sure! Last time I gave a long talking to at a poor guy, but he did apologize in the end so it was ok.
I also do not believe in the term "convert" but that's a long story that others might know so there's no point in bringing it up. I also do not believe in the "Jew by choice" term for supposed "converts".
;)
I apologize in advance if I sound offensive to anyone.
--- End quote ---
Mills is entitled to her opinion. I would just like to clarify the halacha as this is my thread. The halacha is that a non-Jew who wishes to become a Jew should be dissuaded from doing so three times in ALL cases, even if the gentile has the best reasons for converting.
Lesson #1 for your conversion, Mills is that when you become Jewish, you need to listen to what the halacha says and don't try to make it up as you go along (I'm saying this out of caring, I pray you will not be offended). I hope when you become Jewish one day and a non-Jew asks you to teach them to become Jewish that you will follow this halacha and try to dissuade them three times no matter what.
If you want reasons why we should try to dissaude a gentile from converting who even has the best of intentions you may ask that as a separate question on the Ask Lubab show. ;)
mord:
LUBAB they have 2 Chabad telethones on T.V. 1 is from Garden City Rabbi Pearl,they have another from Los Angeles with Hollywood types.I give to Rabbi Pearl but the Hollywood type seems secular
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