Shalom, from an ex muslim

[Sarah]

The Soviet Union supplied the Arabs for quite a while.

[Sarah]

Sarah, are you for real?  Why do you totally dismiss out of hand the realities on the ground?  Think for one minute and ask yourself how Islam became the dominant "religion" from Spain to Asia and that "Jihad" had been practiced (and still is) 4 centuries prior to the crusades?

Come on....really.  

PS: Israel should NEVER have given one inch of land after the 6 Day War....further it should have expelled its Koranimal populous "thorn" from within its midst.  

PPS: Would Israel want to "expand"?  Only to its mandated borders of the Balfaur Declaration or that of 1923: the first "two state solution".  Personally, I'd prefer the post '67 borders.  Perhaps if Israel did expand its boarders there might be a relative peace as Israel is a much more peaceful entity than all 60+ Islamosavage dictatorial regimes are put together...

The Israeli government knew that the rest of the world wouldn't let them keep the land they gained during the 6 day war, they gained bits of land from 3 different countries.

[kahaneloyalist]

Yep they were powerful in otherwise, more organized and experienced fighters...

That's not true at all.

In 1947/48 the Jews had ZERO experience at fighting. Most of the Jews were half-starved survivors from hitler's (YS) camps. They were a bunch of tradesmen, teachers and accountants turned farmers turned soldiers.

NO WAY! The Irgun and Stern has some of the most experienced fighters ever. I think i read somewhere that all the young men had to go through training courses as well.
The arabs were by far less experienced or organised when it came to fighting.

While the irregular Arab forces, numbering approximetly 40 thousand were not particularly well coordinated among the different Arab "Liberation" armies, they were trained by some of the best soldiers in the world, members of the Weirmacht who escaped Europe. They fled primarily to Egypt and Syria, and were happy to give the Arabs a hand in finishing Hitler's yimach shmo vizikhro job. Read "In the Shadow of the Syphinx, Nassers Strange Allies" for an account of the enormous numbers of Nazis who fled to the Arab world and joined in the fight for Arab Nationalism.

While the Lehi and Etzel were experienced and highly skilled fighters with signifigant experience, there just werent that many of them, no more then 5 thousand in their entire history were ever engaged in combat activities. Furthermore there was an arms embargo against the pre-state fighters, the Arabs on the other hand were openly and actively armed by among others the British, and the Arab forces especially in the early days of the fighting wildly outnumbered the Jews.

Now remember there were SIX Arab armies, all modern and well armed, that attacked the fledgling Jewish state which until well into the war and the assistance of the Czechs had few weapons and little ammunition. While the British primarily assisted the Arabs with air support, and the RAF was the finest air force in the world at the time, there were battles such as the fight for Yaffo when Jews faced British Army forces as well.

Sarah, are you for real?  Why do you totally dismiss out of hand the realities on the ground?  Think for one minute and ask yourself how Islam became the dominant "religion" from Spain to Asia and that "Jihad" had been practiced (and still is) 4 centuries prior to the crusades?

Come on....really.  

PS: Israel should NEVER have given one inch of land after the 6 Day War....further it should have expelled its Koranimal populous "thorn" from within its midst.  

PPS: Would Israel want to "expand"?  Only to its mandated borders of the Balfaur Declaration or that of 1923: the first "two state solution".  Personally, I'd prefer the post '67 borders.  Perhaps if Israel did expand its boarders there might be a relative peace as Israel is a much more peaceful entity than all 60+ Islamosavage dictatorial regimes are put together...

The Israeli government knew that the rest of the world wouldn't let them keep the land they gained during the 6 day war, they gained bits of land from 3 different countries.

That was our land being occupied by Arab imperialists

[Sarah]

Did the U.S begin to Aid Israel after the War of Independence?

[newman]

The Israeli government knew that the rest of the world wouldn't let them keep the land they gained during the 6 day war, they gained bits of land from 3 different countries.

They have the right to that land under international law. Land won in a defensive war by the country that was attacked can be kept. Just like the german land won & taken by France, Checkoslovakia & Poland.

[Ultra Requete]

Sarah, are you for real?  Why do you totally dismiss out of hand the realities on the ground?  Think for one minute and ask yourself how Islam became the dominant "religion" from Spain to Asia and that "Jihad" had been practiced (and still is) 4 centuries prior to the crusades?

Come on....really.  

PS: Israel should NEVER have given one inch of land after the 6 Day War....further it should have expelled its Koranimal populous "thorn" from within its midst.  

PPS: Would Israel want to "expand"?  Only to its mandated borders of the Balfaur Declaration or that of 1923: the first "two state solution".  Personally, I'd prefer the post '67 borders.  Perhaps if Israel did expand its boarders there might be a relative peace as Israel is a much more peaceful entity than all 60+ Islamosavage dictatorial regimes are put together...

The Israeli government knew that the rest of the world wouldn't let them keep the land they gained during the 6 day war, they gained bits of land from 3 different countries.

Strong Israeli goverment woud not be pushed by UN, which is able to bully only weak and apease stronh like China over Tybet, the problem is the Israel was governed by rotten socialists and idealistic zionist "do gooders" who belived in coahabitation with muslime Arabs in 1967.

[Ultra Requete]

The Israeli government knew that the rest of the world wouldn't let them keep the land they gained during the 6 day war, they gained bits of land from 3 different countries.

They have the right to that land under international law. Land won in a defensive war by the country that was attacked can be kept. Just like the german land won & taken by France, Checkoslovakia & Poland.

 

[kahaneloyalist]

Did the U.S begin to Aid Israel after the War of Independence?

US aid only began after 1967, and frankly I wish we had never taken a penny of American money

[Sarah]

Did the U.S begin to Aid Israel after the War of Independence?

US aid only began after 1967, and frankly I wish we had never taken a penny of American money

Did they aid Israel because the Soviet Union was joining up with the Arabs and because of the cold war, they wanted to remain a predominant superpower?

Or becuase of the Jewish Lobby in New York?

[jdl4ever]

I know this old short guy in my neighborhood who survived a concentration camp where he almost died of starvation and then he fought in the Irgun and after that fought in the war of independence.  A miracle he survived all of that without any missing limbs.  He doesn't look like a marine fighter to me, but the whole thing was a miracle.  He's a very rich guy now but very cheap though. 

[kahaneloyalist]

Did the U.S begin to Aid Israel after the War of Independence?

US aid only began after 1967, and frankly I wish we had never taken a penny of American money

Did they aid Israel because the Soviet Union was joining up with the Arabs and because of the cold war, they wanted to remain a predominant superpower?

Or becuase of the Jewish Lobby in New York?

The US only began allying with Israel, though with such friends who needs enemies, because every Arab state had rejected the American desire for an alliance with them.

[Ultra Requete]

Did the U.S begin to Aid Israel after the War of Independence?

US aid only began after 1967, and frankly I wish we had never taken a penny of American money

Did they aid Israel because the Soviet Union was joining up with the Arabs and because of the cold war, they wanted to remain a predominant superpower?

Or becuase of the Jewish Lobby in New York?

The US only began allying with Israel, though with such friends who needs enemies, because every Arab state had rejected the American desire for an alliance with them.

Us have lots of A-rab alies; from Egipt to UAE. But you do have a point it's some time better to be US "enemy" like USSR, China or Iran than alie treated as client kingdom. 

[q_q_]

what is the point of this ?

to apologise for israel getting help from other countries? to boast of the help that israel has received from other countries?

the arabs . egypt, jordan, iraq, e.t.c. have enough help from each other. And need it. certainly needed it in 1967.

I know the arabs like to say "israel had help from america".  "and needs it"
But putting aside the fact that america didn't help in 1948. THEY DO NOT WANT ISRAEL GETTING HELP!  But if they get help they would be overjoyed.

One thing I have not heard them say publically, is "unfair.  Israel got help from Allah".  But they would not deny it amongst themselves. They sit there worrying over it. Why did Allah let it happen.

This is not some universal view from them, that we should all abandon any help and fight like men.  All their arguments are just to try to destroy israel completely.  If they received any help they would not just accept it, but they would attribute it to Allah.

[MarZutra]

The Israeli government knew that the rest of the world wouldn't let them keep the land they gained during the 6 day war, they gained bits of land from 3 different countries.

Did they aid Israel because the Soviet Union was joining up with the Arabs and because of the cold war, they wanted to remain a predominant superpower?

Or becuase of the Jewish Lobby in New York?

What the Hell is the matter with you?  This will be the absolute last confrontation I'll ever attempt with you Sarah. 

Firstly Sarah, Under international law, as another member posted, Israel had the right to annex the lands liberated after 1967.  The ONLY reason why they did not was due to the EU-Arab, Communist Block and Turd World axis pressuring America which was lead by CFR-Trilateralist anti-Semite Jimmy Carter.  Moreover, the Arabs used their debauchery within the OPEC to drop production and artificially inflate the price to America which produced billions for their investments in Western staple industry: Media for example.  Read Bat Ye'or's book "Eurabia", for example, which I've linked the E-copy in the JTF site...

Secondly, according to the FIRST "Two State Solution" which 78% of the land of "P-lestine" was giving to a Jew Free Arab/Muslim nation called Jordan:


Notice where the borders are?  Why do you not mention anything about when the Arabs: Jordan with "the W-st Bank" and Egypt with Gaza: Jordanians and Egyptians, between 1948 and 1967?

Israel had little aid in '48 war and Europe closed its borders to America's shipments.  Russia and the Communist block simply took the place of the Nazis in supplying aid and coordination to the Arab military/states.

Why do you never condemn the Muslims massacring Christians in the Sudan, Phillippines or the Turks/Iraqis of the Kurds or the thousands murdered in Algeria, the beheadings and female circumcision in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Somalia, Sudan or racism and slavery that continues in the entire Muslim world specifically Saudi, Mauritania....  G-d how can Muslims be so blind?

The "Jewish Lobby" in New York?  If it was up to me I'd ban your ass from this forum.  You've been on here far longer than most and haven't learned a G-d damn thing!!  I suppose you have a copy of the Protocols sitting next to your Qur'an like every good Muslim...  Jewish Lobby Group?  Name ONE main stream media outside of Israel that does NOT spew this anti-Israel pro-Muslim Arab distorted propaganda?  What the hell do you think the Arabs/Muslims do with those trillions in Oil-blood money?  Perhaps you might research into the Euro-Arab Committee, Arab Interparliamentary Union, Council on Islamic Education, Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace, European Cultural Foundation, Euro-Mediterranean Study Commission, International Institute of Islamic Thought, Euro-Medeterannian Partnership Program, European Institute, for Research on Mediterranean and Euro-Arab Cooperation, Organization of Islamic Conference, UNRWA or simply open your eyes to the realities of the Islamitization and decline of Europe...  Please go read and become learned.  That Islamic school and your "teachers" are rotting your brain...period!

MarZutra out and please do not ever interact with me period.  I have no time for your deception, closed mindedness and willful ignorance...  You wonder why the average Brit (or any thinking person: dhimmi or kuffar for that matter) distrusts and abhors Muslims...

[דוד בן זאב אריה]

Wow great to have you on board

[Raulmarrio2000]

Did the U.S begin to Aid Israel after the War of Independence?

US aid only began after 1967, and frankly I wish we had never taken a penny of American money

Did they aid Israel because the Soviet Union was joining up with the Arabs and because of the cold war, they wanted to remain a predominant superpower?

Or becuase of the Jewish Lobby in New York?

Sarah, there are 22 huge Arabs Muslim countries in the world and when someone sides with the tiny Israel, you say that it is because of a "Jewish Lobby". Sorry, but I think this is an anti-Semite remark. If Jews had decided not to build up Israel, we would be hearing people saying that they can stay in the rest of the world b/c of a Jewish Lobby!!!!!!! It seems that, according to you, Jews have no right to live. They just exist because there is a Zionist conspiracy!!!!!!
Those comments about a Nations/Ethnicity's lobby would lead you into trouble, not in a Kahanist forum, but even here in Aregentina with a Leftist Government. This forum is based in USA, I think. And you can say what you want, as far as the admins allow you. People come here also to learn, but next time be more carefull about what you say.

[Ultra Requete]

I never noticed that Saudi Barbaria is so close a few clicks from Eilat. Here's another map:


Notice how "much" the UN gave to Jews in 1947. All teritories PLO/HAMS want today for their future state were promised to them and more... Why they don't created the Fakekitinian state then or between 1949-1967? Here's the answer this is Bush and Olmert peace partner's  FATAH map:


And here's the Iran proxy HAMAS map:



The palestinians and their A-rab and muslime kin simply don't want any Jewish state, however small.

[Sarah]

It says in my history text book that the Jewish lobby in America, held quite a lot of influence and this strengthed the U.S support for Israel.

I never said that Israel is just there because of it. Forget it. Marzutra, I don't want you to confront me. You just ramble on and on.

[Raulmarrio2000]

It says in my history text book that the Jewish lobby in America, held quite a lot of influence and this strengthed the U.S support for Israel.

I never said that Israel is just there because of it. Forget it. Marzutra, I don't want you to confront me. You just ramble on and on.

If you learn from an Arabs text book in a Muslim school, no wonder you will read that and even worse things. If you really want to be free instead of indoctrinated, you must read from different sources, and not believe just only what you are taught.

[MarZutra]

It says in my history text book that the Jewish lobby in America, held quite a lot of influence and this strengthed the U.S support for Israel.

I never said that Israel is just there because of it. Forget it. Marzutra, I don't want you to confront me. You just ramble on and on.

Sarah, I must apologize for my forwardness.  But I'm just so sick and tired of the spewing of these distortions and obviously "protocol" view which 99.999 of Muslims and anti-Jew savages hold in their quest to elminate the Jew and of course the symbol of G-d: Israel. 

I don't just ramble. If I did than why is the following post one of praise?  I think you are not only highly mislead but also very closed minded.  If there was such a "lobby group" why are there no confrontations of the lie of a "P-lestinian People", "We_t Bank", "East Jeru_alem" or so-called "occupied territories"?  Why is America pressuring Israel NOT to annex their lands and transfer the Muslims, as the Muslims had done BUT to reward massacres and terrorism with Land for another Sham terrorist anti-Jew/West "state"?

Please do not insult my intelligence...   This isn't simply just a matter of disagreement.  Do you remember when you first used to write me, I supplied you with so much information for you to research with an open mind and compare with what you’ve been indoctrinated with in the past.  I’ve offered you assistance in sorting out fact from fiction, reality from sham….but after how long you still post the same damn rubbish that has already been beaten to death?  Come on….really…  I don’t know about anyone else on this forum but I’m for one am sure suspect….

PS: I noticed you didn't bother to answer any of my comments about the Arab-Muslim world? 

[Sarah]

It says in my history text book that the Jewish lobby in America, held quite a lot of influence and this strengthed the U.S support for Israel.

I never said that Israel is just there because of it. Forget it. Marzutra, I don't want you to confront me. You just ramble on and on.

If you learn from an Arabs text book in a Muslim school, no wonder you will read that and even worse things. If you really want to be free instead of indoctrinated, you must read from different sources, and not believe just only what you are taught.

Just because i go to a muslim school it doesn't mean i learn from arab text books, i study the national curriculam. It's english, with english text books. I found what you said offensive.


I don't want to answer any comments you made at all. You do ramble on, because you've just brought up so many different issues that i didn't even mention, in your post.
Just keep your intelligence to yourself then. I don't understand what you're talking about. Yes i'm stupid, deceptive and narrow-minded, so don't bother "informing" me about anything.
I'm not arguing over the borders of Israel.

[q_q_]

It says in my history text book that the Jewish lobby in America, held quite a lot of influence and this strengthed the U.S support for Israel.

I never said that Israel is just there because of it. Forget it. Marzutra, I don't want you to confront me. You just ramble on and on.

If you learn from an Arabs text book in a Muslim school, no wonder you will read that and even worse things. If you really want to be free instead of indoctrinated, you must read from different sources, and not believe just only what you are taught.

Just because i go to a muslim school it doesn't mean i learn from arab text books, i study the national curriculam. It's english, with english text books. I found what you said offensive.


I don't want to answer any comments you made at all. You do ramble on, because you've just brought up so many different issues that i didn't even mention, in your post.
Just keep your intelligence to yourself then. I don't understand what you're talking about. Yes i'm stupid, deceptive and narrow-minded, so don't bother "informing" me about anything.
I'm not arguing over the borders of Israel.

what is the ISBN of this book that talked about a powerful jewish lobby?

[Raulmarrio2000]

Just because i go to a muslim school it doesn't mean i learn from arab text books, i study the national curriculam. It's english, with english text books. I found what you said offensive.

I didn't mean to offend you. I only said that if you want to be yourself, not what others want you to be, you should read from different sources. Have you read some books written by Jews?
The same happens here. I wouldn't trust an Argentinian book about the Falklands!!!!!!

[MarZutra]

If the Arabs put down their weapons, Israel would want to expand it's borders wouldn't it?

I'm sorry for misunderstanding you Sarah you are not arguing over the borders of Israel.  How could I be so mistaken and shortsighted.  Please accept my humble apology.....

[Sarah]

If the Arabs put down their weapons, Israel would want to expand it's borders wouldn't it?

I'm sorry for misunderstanding you Sarah you are not arguing over the borders of Israel.  How could I be so mistaken and shortsighted.  Please accept my humble apology.....

I wasn't arguing. It was a rhetorical question, you even said so yourself that Israel should and would want back the land from the 6 day war.

I didn't mean to offend you. I only said that if you want to be yourself, not what others want you to be, you should read from different sources. Have you read some books written by Jews?
The same happens here. I wouldn't trust an Argentinian book about the Falklands!!!!!!

I read from the sources that are written by the education board, i don't care if they are Jews, Muslims, Christians or whatever....it could have been written by all of them. You wouldn't trust and Argentenian book about the Falklands because it was directly involved. Britain wasn't 100% involved in every single war that has pretty much taken place over the last century. I know you didn't mean to offend me. I just found it quite insulting, never mind.

Was he really rambling on or is it that you just can't answer? I did not see him ramble, that's why I ask.

Sarah, what are you doing in the forum, if I may ask?  What is you purpose here.

You understand him. I don't and I don't want to either.

Good question. I have lost a lot of motivation in my initial purpose, which was to understand Judaism and JTF's views. So, Shalom Mills.