how many Jews are in the forum?

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

full on lets end this discussion here, i fully support everything you guys are doing, shalom

Welcome to the forum mate 

[Dr. Dan]

" when someone becomes Jewish thier spirits were at sinai" that`s hindu philosophy ie reincarnation, did you get that from Hatorah?

bubby, i think you are missing the point from that quote...

Jews are not just an ethnicity...with 2000 years in diaspora, i can garauntee you that Jews mixed and mingled ethnically with other races and look the way they do now...Ashkanazim with blue eyes and blonde hair?  Ethipoian Jews black as night?  Sephardim to look like the way the do?  Or even Jews from India...or from the far east who look mongoloid?  Honestly, genetically we are pretty much very disimilar from each other...

But still when you go past many generations, religious or secular, Jews can be an ethnicity...
but what about converts or children or grand children of converts?  Are they ethnically Jewish?  Well, does it matter?  They are practicing Judaism the way they are supposed to and they converted properly..so they are Jews.

And for that matter, what's the difference?  Whomever is righteous in their lifetime, Jew or nonJew gains entry for the World to Come..so really, what difference does it really make on this thread?

[FULL METAL JACKET]

A Jew who doesn't accept converts perhaps shouldn't be on this forum, let alone be a Kahanist.

Let's take a look at what Rabbi Meir Kahane had to say:

.For me, a non-Jew can become a Jew. He has the absolute right to become a Jew. We don’t have a blood monopoly. I don’t believe in blood. I believe in a culture, an idea. The Germans had no ideal. They based themselves on a concept that was solely racist. To me, a black Jew from Africa is just as Jewish as I am. Last Sunday, I made a speech at Yeruham [a development town] and I attacked the president of the town council because he had refused to admit black Jews to his town. So for me it’s not a question of race. It’s a matter of ideals. And these ideals are G~d-given; therefore these ideals have to be propagated here in Israel. Anyone who accepts these ideals is welcome among us.

Source: http://www.kahane.org/meir/interview.htm

[q_q_]

It does not matter if aspects of kabbalah like reincarnation, exist in other mystical philosophies, such as hinduism.

It's a concept that is very natural to ones imagination, just as the soul is. So similarly, just because some other people has dreamt up the idea of a soul, does not mean that the soul does not exist.  

Furthermore, if there are complex subjects that are shared, that can be explained too..

We used to have schools of prophecy, lots and lots of prophets.
The book of prophets only mentions those whose prophecies are relevant to us today.  We have had far more than the (often counted as) 48 prophets and 7 prophetesses mentioned in tenach.
According to what I read from not such a great source - the koshertorah site.
Rabbi Dovid Ben HaRAMBAM , a kabbalist/mystic, met Sufis(a bunch of arab mystics with a very generic philosophy far older than islam, that ended up islamizing their philosophy, probably to stay safe, and now most of them consider themselves muslims).
He believed that the sufis had met with and learnt something from the ancient israelite prophets that wondered around the deserts.

Also, in the so-called golden age of spain, it is possible that mystics of various religions mixed and influenced each other.  This would have corrupted kabbalah, and kabbalised the mystic streams of other religions.

Also, I heard from an interview tamar yonah gave to Gutman Locks, (a secular jew that became a hindu/buddist guru in india, then returned to orthodox judaism).
The verse in Genesis that says Avraham gave gifts to the sons of the concubines.  Rashi quotes a tradition that shose gifts were special names that had certain powers.  There is a discussion in the gemara, that these powers are treif (not kosher) for jews to use, but ok for non-jews.
And in that section where it names children of avraham's second wife Keturah, it says them or some of them went East (this could be the india area), and it mentions their names.. some of the names are indian sounding.  
One of them is called Ashram, which apparently has many scratching their heads, but one commentator says it means Tent. That is exactly what it means in hindi/the indian language.
This Gutman Locks, suspects that the name brahminism comes from abraham.

I would not look at that as facts.. the point is you can keep an open mind, and realise the picture is alot bigger than it might appear.

It is also possible that much or even all of kabbalah is wrong. Other than that which is in the talmud, that which the RAMBAM mentioned.  It does not matter that much. Kabbalah is not fundamental to judaism.  It looks as itself as fundamental, and it discusses the mystical side of the fundamentals, but the fundamentals exist without it.

Just saying Oh, reincarnation exists in hinduism.. Is just irrelevant.

And also, according to "lulab", reincarnation in judaism is not of soul, but of mission.

[Dr. Dan]

This thread is insane a person who converts according to Halacha is Jewish..have you all gone insane maybe some of you have

I'm with you mord the past few days with this thread and a few others has really been sad. We need all our members working together. Stuff like this is not going to help us accomplish our goals.

This thread is insane a person who converts according to Halacha is Jewish..have you all gone insane maybe some of you have

I'm with you mord the past few days with this thread and a few others has really been sad. We need all our members working together. Stuff like this is not going to help us accomplish our goals.

Yes, I agree. I cannot believe that there are those who do not accept "converts" (who converted under hallacha) as 100% Jewish. I mean, it boggles the mind. After all, it is written how born Jews must treat "converts" in other words "converts who converted", not "gentiles who converted". When they do it hallachically, then no born Jew can see them as any less, not spiritually or physically. They BOTH have that Jewish soul and they BOTH were at Mt. Sinai. Period. End of Story. 
After all there have been great people who are either "converts" themselves or descended from converts, they are as Jewish as any born Jew.

wait, he doesn't accpet converts? who said this?  I haven't read this on this thread yet...i just saw one thing nik wrote and i questioned it...and bubbly only asked about ethnic Jews, but did not really get into the whole convert thing..i think this is all a misunderstanding.

Dan, I was not talking about you! I know YOU accept converts. LOL. I was talking about someone else who said that to be a legitimate Jew, you need to be related to Abraham by blood.
You did NOT say this. I was referring to the person that everyone else is also referring to. No need to mention names.

I know i didn't say that..but i dont' think that other guy said it either...i think what he wrote got lost in the translation.  He was adding a question about ethnicity and i answered it saying that with Jews and Judaism it is both an ethnicity and religion.

[nikmatdam]

dr. dan go online to the conservative movements congress or rabbinical union or whatever they call it these days... read their bylaws and you will see their positions on shabat etc. yes they tell their adherents that to drive to synagogue is permitted on shabat... and even though they say this all it is permitted for... but therein lies the sham and the fraud... because shabat is sacred to not do a single creative action or melacha to transform nature to our will and it matters not for what reason we wish to do so... with the only exception being to save human life... and yes they say the torah is not absolute Divinity otherwise how could they tamper with it... with their sick philosophy of "a living evolving document..." and all that rubbish...? nik. out...

[bubby]

great discussion,sorry you seem to take this so seriously mills.this debate has and will roll on for years to come. for me i embrace anyone who defends the right of israel to exhist and exhist in piece Jew and Gentile however they are  defined.

[Mishmaat]

I was talking about the person who who said that to be a legitimate Jew, you need to be related to Abraham by blood, in the "absolute". One does not need to say one thing to actually mean it. I am not the only who feels that this person is not accepting "converts" due to "blood" issues. No need to mention names.
Besides, others agree with me that this is what that person is implying about "converts"

I'm sure Ruth was a blood relative of Avraham Avinu.  

[q_q_]

Alot of people that talk about the definition of a jew, do not have a clue what they`re talking about, and should never be taken seriously. These clueless people are like liberals/leftists.

These people are religiously liberal and talking out of their "imagination"/rear end. And everything they say has as much value as manure, except what they say doesn`t  help fertilize the ground.

They should be responded to. But as a warning to others. It is good enough for a few people that do have a clue, to respond very briefly, just identifying them or the post.. as nonsense.

[Tina Greco - Melbourne]

Great we have 28 and 1 not sure 

[Dr. Dan]

dr. dan go online to the conservative movements congress or rabbinical union or whatever they call it these days... read their bylaws and you will see their positions on shabat etc. yes they tell their adherents that to drive to synagogue is permitted on shabat... and even though they say this all it is permitted for... but therein lies the sham and the fraud... because shabat is sacred to not do a single creative action or melacha to transform nature to our will and it matters not for what reason we wish to do so... with the only exception being to save human life... and yes they say the torah is not absolute Divinity otherwise how could they tamper with it... with their sick philosophy of "a living evolving document..." and all that rubbish...? nik. out...

please send me the link...because I don't know where you are getting yoru actual information from.

[mord]

An orthodox conversion is is fine ,not talking about reform or reconstruction

[Ari]

I was reading an article about Jewish weddings in Israel yesterday.  Apparently, it's becoming quite a chore for people who want to get married.  They have to prove without a doubt that they're Jewish and certain documentation is required, if they want a religious wedding.  It was pretty interesting and raised questions over who is considered Jewish, by the various so-called Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox groupings.  I'm Jewish by the way.

[nikmatdam]

i don't have a specific link... read rabbi antleman's two-volume book... "to eliminate the opiate" how conservative judaism was hatched in amer. to undermine authentic torah... read barry chamish's book on sabateanism to see the link bet. amer. "rabbis" and "lay leaders (sic) attempts to undermine with labor zionism the saving of europ. torah jewry and of course the protest-boycott movement to topple germany and hitler financially which almost worked from the grassroots but was ruined and foiled by weizman and ss weiss both nazi-bastard-jews... see hirhome.com for that last discussion...

reform and conserv. judaism is satanic and was not founded to reform torah judaism or conserve it but to undermine it and destroy it... it is well known they allow chillul shabat to get to shul so i'm not going to waste my time doing the research for you... go to the bylaws of the conservative movement... they have a congress, seminary-system and a rabbinical union... i don't have to tell you these things... nik.

[Dr. Dan]

i don't have a specific link... read rabbi antleman's two-volume book... "to eliminate the opiate" how conservative judaism was hatched in amer. to undermine authentic torah... read barry chamish's book on sabateanism to see the link bet. amer. "rabbis" and "lay leaders (sic) attempts to undermine with labor zionism the saving of europ. torah jewry and of course the protest-boycott movement to topple germany and hitler financially which almost worked from the grassroots but was ruined and foiled by weizman and ss weiss both nazi-bastard-jews... see hirhome.com for that last discussion...

reform and conserv. judaism is satanic and was not founded to reform torah judaism or conserve it but to undermine it and destroy it... it is well known they allow chillul shabat to get to shul so i'm not going to waste my time doing the research for you... go to the bylaws of the conservative movement... they have a congress, seminary-system and a rabbinical union... i don't have to tell you these things... nik.

nik all you have done is spill vile curses at conservative and reform judaism and expressed sources of books based on people's opinions of conservative and reform judaism.  Can you please divulge an actual source written by those who follow conservative and reform Judaism and their actual views?

All i know about thsoe two movements is how much you hate them...that's just peachy keen jelly bean..but i want to konw specificially from the mouths of these movements which you hate and curse so much what they actually believe in their own words...and perhaps I can judge for myself if they are actually rewriting the Torah or simply interpreting the Torah differently but not rewriting it.

[RationalThought110]

nik all you have done is spill vile curses at conservative and reform judaism and expressed sources of books based on people's opinions of conservative and reform judaism.  Can you please divulge an actual source written by those who follow conservative and reform Judaism and their actual views?

All i know about thsoe two movements is how much you hate them...that's just peachy keen jelly bean..but i want to konw specificially from the mouths of these movements which you hate and curse so much what they actually believe in their own words...and perhaps I can judge for myself if they are actually rewriting the Torah or simply interpreting the Torah differently but not rewriting it.
[/quote]


Last year, the "Conservative Movement" maintained their status quo about gay rabbis and gay marriage.  However, they had three rulings.  And one of them approved of gay rabbis and gay marriage.  So they basically gave a vague response about gay rabbis and gay marriage. 


There were three "teshuvas."   Two of them upheld the bans on gay rabbis and gay marriage.


The third ruling that approved of it was a contradiction because it disapproved of non-heterosexual sexual relations.  So it upheld the ban on that but approved of them being allowed to become rabbis and marry, despite disapproving the behavior.  So they would allow them to get married but disapprove of their behavior or pretend that they wouldn't have sexual relations. 


So obviously some rabbis in the "Conservative Movement" decided that they wanted to give priority to the gay marriage agenda rather than follow the Torah.


Thus, the reform movement basically interprets the Torah to fit things to their agenda and some rabbis in the "Conservative Movement' do the same. 

[abdithefaithful]

...at least we can all agree that Ron Jeremy isn't doing us any favors by telling the world that he's a Jew... No real Jew would have "illicit sexual relations" with over 4 thousand women and then brag about it... He's like Spitzer, a gosh darn disgrace of a man...

[q_q_]

I was watching a program on late.. some guy , surname was probably Goldberg, who was a journalist in teh porn industry was talking about how he would reviews films..

When he talked about his work, he said "As we say in israel, it`s a mitzva".

what a chillul hashem. (public sin, public desecration of G-d`s name/torah!)

[Dr. Dan]

nik all you have done is spill vile curses at conservative and reform judaism and expressed sources of books based on people's opinions of conservative and reform judaism.  Can you please divulge an actual source written by those who follow conservative and reform Judaism and their actual views?

All i know about thsoe two movements is how much you hate them...that's just peachy keen jelly bean..but i want to konw specificially from the mouths of these movements which you hate and curse so much what they actually believe in their own words...and perhaps I can judge for myself if they are actually rewriting the Torah or simply interpreting the Torah differently but not rewriting it.

Last year, the "Conservative Movement" maintained their status quo about gay rabbis and gay marriage.  However, they had three rulings.  And one of them approved of gay rabbis and gay marriage.  So they basically gave a vague response about gay rabbis and gay marriage. 


There were three "teshuvas."   Two of them upheld the bans on gay rabbis and gay marriage.


The third ruling that approved of it was a contradiction because it disapproved of non-heterosexual sexual relations.  So it upheld the ban on that but approved of them being allowed to become rabbis and marry, despite disapproving the behavior.  So they would allow them to get married but disapprove of their behavior or pretend that they wouldn't have sexual relations. 


So obviously some rabbis in the "Conservative Movement" decided that they wanted to give priority to the gay marriage agenda rather than follow the Torah.


Thus, the reform movement basically interprets the Torah to fit things to their agenda and some rabbis in the "Conservative Movement' do the same. 
[/quote]


can i have this in writing from the actual conservative movement?  And also the stuff about Shabbat and kashrut.

[Dr. Dan]

...at least we can all agree that Ron Jeremy isn't doing us any favors by telling the world that he's a Jew... No real Jew would have "illicit sexual relations" with over 4 thousand women and then brag about it... He's like Spitzer, a gosh darn disgrace of a man...

ron just doing his job....

[Dr. Dan]

I was reading an article about Jewish weddings in Israel yesterday.  Apparently, it's becoming quite a chore for people who want to get married.  They have to prove without a doubt that they're Jewish and certain documentation is required, if they want a religious wedding.  It was pretty interesting and raised questions over who is considered Jewish, by the various so-called Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox groupings.  I'm Jewish by the way.

Non-religious weddings aren't recognized in Israel. Self-hating Jews have to go to Cyprus to have Secular weddings. Some of them then have a Deform or Conserved wedding once they get back to Israel. But if someone has a Non-Orthodox wedding, if they want to get divorced they still need an Orthodox get because any marriage between a Jewish man and woman is binding according to Halacha, even civil weddings. So if they don't get an Orthodox get, any future kids the woman would have from another man would be mamzerim.

Jews that want to marry goyim also go to Cyprus to get married. The Israeli Government will regognize any marriage that takes place outside of Israel but inside Israel, it has to be religious, and for Jews, that means Orthodox.

with a mekhitza?

[q_q_]

<snip>

with a mekhitza?

So what?

look, are you some liberal crazy..

So what if you are separated from women during the celebration and wedding. It is less than one day.

You want to have chats with them? Are you nuts? You like ballet and soaps? Do it another time.
And if you are thinking of doing more than that. It is not really the time or place.

[Dr. Dan]

<snip>

with a mekhitza?

So what?

look, are you some liberal crazy..

So what if you are separated from women during the celebration and wedding. It is less than one day.

You want to have chats with them? Are you nuts? You like ballet and soaps? Do it another time.
And if you are thinking of doing more than that. It is not really the time or place.

The thing is...men and women dancing togehter..families dancing together doesn't offend me...nor does it make me hornier or think about sex with unmarried women..

So, it's, in the future, me and my wife's wedding..we will decide what is best for ourselves and our guests..not someone who hardly knows me or my family or my guests...Jew or gentile.

You can have your mekhitza all you want whenever you want.

If i married a very traditional girl and she wanted a mekhitza, I would be ok with it at least in the first half of the wedding...

[Dr. Dan]

I was reading an article about Jewish weddings in Israel yesterday.  Apparently, it's becoming quite a chore for people who want to get married.  They have to prove without a doubt that they're Jewish and certain documentation is required, if they want a religious wedding.  It was pretty interesting and raised questions over who is considered Jewish, by the various so-called Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox groupings.  I'm Jewish by the way.

Non-religious weddings aren't recognized in Israel. Self-hating Jews have to go to Cyprus to have Secular weddings. Some of them then have a Deform or Conserved wedding once they get back to Israel. But if someone has a Non-Orthodox wedding, if they want to get divorced they still need an Orthodox get because any marriage between a Jewish man and woman is binding according to Halacha, even civil weddings. So if they don't get an Orthodox get, any future kids the woman would have from another man would be mamzerim.

Jews that want to marry goyim also go to Cyprus to get married. The Israeli Government will regognize any marriage that takes place outside of Israel but inside Israel, it has to be religious, and for Jews, that means Orthodox.

with a mekhitza?

No.

Non-religious Orthodox wedding in Israel even have self-hating loud music and mixed dancing. But the service is done by an Orthodox rabbi although the self-hating Jews in Israel don't have a proper wedding seuda.

Even not all religious Orthodox weddings have a mechitza, but just seperate dancing.

thank you yaacov, I can accept that...most jewish weddings that i go to which are not necessarily religious do have a lot of separate dancing..but towards the middle to end of the wedding, men and women will dance with each other...mostly husband with wife or families with each other...or if a guy meets a girl...but there isn't any touching or bumping and grinding...not sure if you ahve ever seen persian dancing..nobody touches the other. Lots of wrist twisting...

[q_q_]

what is dancing with the opposite sex, if not sexual teasing?

it is certainly showing off of some kind.