The only issue

[Dr. Dan]

Scriabin, you are mistaken. Women do go for looks--believe me. I am very familiar with what women are looking for. The first thing a woman looks for, appearance-wise, is height. If you look like Cary Grant but are 5'4", believe me, you won't get as much as a hug. Next, women do want a guy who is basically in good shape. I will grant that you are correct that few women make having a musclebound hulk a priority, but I can promise you that nobody will look at a 400-pound lard donkey if he doesn't have a ton of money.

And yes--older women do check out younger men, all the time. Go to a hockey game sometime and see all the fifty-sixtysomething boomers ogling the players during practice. (And I doubt they are doing so because these athletes are rich.)

Finally--the importance of this is exaggerated, but there is a significant portion of women--maybe 20 or 30%--for whom size does matter. Lots of female check out crotches in the same way that men are attracted to the chest. You can't deny that many females do this. It may not be talked about as much as boobs are, but it's very real, and the notion that a particular guy might be blessed downstairs certainly does not harm his chances romantically. Surely everybody has heard of the black-men cult that exists among women because of a persistent stereotype about African-origin males.

The idea that women only want confidence and poise is a sheer stereotype. Confidence and poise will not help a 500-pound, 80-year old bald dude unless he is positively loaded. Men want confidence too, by the way. Nothing kills commitment desires in single men like a weak, spineless girl who is constantly clingy and has no self-respect.

you have some good points, CF.  I will add one thing that i'm sure is true.  Women who are ready to get married or to date seriously who are virtuous and will be great wives and mothers one day are looking for men who are compassionate, sensitive, not players, and will make good husbands and fathers. The best women love guys who, although confident, comes from a good family with good parents who answer to someone above them and dont' walk around saying, "It's my life, I'll do whatever I want and I won't listen to my parents." and go all egotistical like that.  To add, the nicest and best Jewish girl LOVES a guy who wears Tfillin in the morning...(so for all you gentiles...sorry, no can do ....)

is this a result of the public school? possibly...but I think I have to give 99% of the credit to my parents for raising me this way.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I know that you're an Aussie.

Still, do you think that you could at least try making some sense?

LOL.  Seriously, though, where are the Hezbollah mentions in this thread?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Dan, you and Scriabin are both not getting it all right here.

Women are not vastly different from men in what they look for (at least when it comes down to finding a marital partner). Both men and women want a spouse that they are attracted to, first and foremost. Yes, for women attraction has to do with stature and stateliness and not merely body parts, but the same is true for most men too, because, as I said before, no men want a clingy worm of a woman with no self-respect and self-worth. Nor do very many men want to marry "easy" women.

Both men and women do hope for, and generally try to get, a mate who they think will be good in bed. Anybody who really would try to argue otherwise is in a grave state of denial.

It's that simple.

[Scriabin]

Dan, you and Scriabin are both not getting it all right here.

Women are not vastly different from men in what they look for (at least when it comes down to finding a marital partner). Both men and women want a spouse that they are attracted to, first and foremost. Yes, for women attraction has to do with stature and stateliness and not merely body parts, but the same is true for most men too, because, as I said before, no men want a clingy worm of a woman with no self-respect and self-worth. Nor do very many men want to marry "easy" women.

Both men and women do hope for, and generally try to get, a mate who they think will be good in bed. Anybody who really would try to argue otherwise is in a grave state of denial.

It's that simple.

Nonsence.

As far as sexual partners are concerned, Women want a man who provides 'security'.

Guys want a chick that's hot.

Its that simple.

[Rubystars]

While I don't think that masculinity should be discouraged or punished, I also believe it has to be tempered somewhat for a man to be appealing. Men who listen, instead of thinking they know it all and don't have to listen to women, men show some level of empathy, rather than being emotionless hulks, and men who take care of their appearance rather than simply being slobs, are much more attractive.

[Dr. Dan]

here's the thing Scriabin, WE, men, DO think with our little tiny brains that are hanging (for some of us) in the middle of our body.  When we see a woman, most of us think in a split second about what she looks like naked, havign sex wtih her, marrying her, and divorcing her.  It's a fact.  Even the most moral of us men, we do that.  It's what drives us.  Women are a little different..what that difference is, I'm not sure..i just know they aren't like us men when it comes down to noticing the opposite sex.

On yoru second point defaming me that I'm not really a doctor and cannot prescribe medicine...I'm the type of doctor that happens to prescribe medicine on a daily basis.  I'm the kind of doctor that does surgery in the mouth with blood and stitches. So...just beware...you trying to hurt my feelings by defaming me will only go backwards in your face to anyone who comes across these posts.  Be careful of what you say and how you say things to me...you will end up the fool with his head between his legs womanless and lonely for the rest of your life bitter at the opposite sex for not loving you because you think men "should be MEN".  

So cut the ego, have an intelligent conversation with me and learn something for your own good for a change!

Dr. Dan, I am more or less in your camp in this debate, but the idea that women do not have a raging libido and do not countenance sex with attractive men that they see is completely spurious. Just like men often think with their "unit", women often think with their c******s. As disgusting and amoral as that television and movie dreck Sex in the City is, it is a pretty accurate commentary of how women think. (Note--I acknowledge that the vast majority of women are not able to put their slutastic fantasies into action the way Carrie Bradshaw is.)

If a woman does not feel any kind of sexual hots for a guy, but trusts and respects him, she will immediately make him into a brother or best-friend figure with whom she will feel comfortable sharing her true feelings in this area to him about (other) guys. It's pretty easy for men to amass quite a bit of knowledge regarding the fairer sex this way. Admittedly, I have received this treatment, at times, but I'm not ashamed of it. Hopefully it has made me more well-rounded for the dating world.

I agree with you.  Women do have a sex drive that might even be stronger than most men. However women tend to be less vocal about it, at least from my observation.  Some women enjoy making chumps out of men by teasing them or using them for sex.  Except we live in evil times...it wasn't like that in yesteryear.  While women did have thoughts almost like men did way back when, they were proper and classy about it...Sex in the City would have been Taboo back then.  Now beastiality is taboo and might not be for long, Gd forbid.

Anywho, there are good girls out there..just fewer than there used to be.  And there are a lot of immature women (as well as men) out there..but you have to learn how to point them out.

[Rubystars]

I wish they NEVER gave women a right to vote.  THAT was RIDICULOUS.

How do ya like me now.....

You might as well stop talkng about Barack Hussein Mohammed Obama, because obviously you don't think your own opinion should matter. You think over half the nation should have no direct political voice. I can't disagree with you more. What kind of democracy disenfranchises the majority of it's population?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

It is not wrong for women to be open and honest about their sex drives. In fact, that is probably one of the few good things coming out of sexual liberation. The Victorian double-standard that it is unladylike to acknowledge having a libido needed to go desperately.

Acknowledging a strong libido is not bad. What is sin is acting on it, either in deed or even just thought.

[Scriabin]

I wish they NEVER gave women a right to vote.  THAT was RIDICULOUS.

How do ya like me now.....

You might as well stop talkng about Barack Hussein Mohammed Obama, because obviously you don't think your own opinion should matter. You think over half the nation should have no direct political voice. I can't disagree with you more. What kind of democracy disenfranchises the majority of it's population?

Paulette is correct.

In the old days, a Man's vote meant something and you know what?  His wife had tremendous influence on the vote.

Now, everyone can vote and it means nothing.

[Dr. Dan]

Scriabin...ego is a terrible thing...look where the former members of JTF have gone due to ego...I predict the same for you in the future unless you swallow your pride and maintain respect.

1) Don't mistake ego for Intelligence.

2) I couldn't care less about your threats, dentist.

I maintain where I stand...it's all ego and other things that i prefer not to post because it might humilate a fellow JTFer, such as yourself.

And these aren't threats..they're warnings for your sake to be a part of this movement and forum, as well as in real life; Don't want a decent person like you to be a bachelor for the rest of his life, if you get my jist.

Now if all of these posts are to mock me and for entertainment purposes, that's fine...hahah the joke is on me for taking you so seriously..April Fools in teh middle of July.

Oh.  How can you be so cruel!

I'm weeping.  Look what you've done, Doctor.  You're supposed to heal the sick, not fight people!

Shame on you!

Scriabin...I dont' know what to say anymore...we'll let the mods decide when they see this.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

As much as I hate to say this, I would agree that womens' suffrage has not, by and large, turned out to be a good thing.

Women (because of the phony, parodied version of "femininity" that they are raised to live up to, NOT because they were born that way) are much more easily swayed by all sorts of wild leftist claims.

Ask any black criminal on trial whether he would prefer to have white men or white women on the jury.

It's a mental illness.

[Rubystars]

The problem is the liberals trying to drive a wedge between men and women, not women having rights and freedoms. You try to take away my vote now and we're going to have serious problems.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Ruby, just because you are an exception does not mean that the rule is not true. Most women in America and the West are more left-wing than men in almost all areas.

This is like saying that America was right not to ship the freed slaves all back to Africa in the 1860s because a small number of blacks reject their culture and turn out to be noble people.

[Scriabin]

Scriabin...ego is a terrible thing...look where the former members of JTF have gone due to ego...I predict the same for you in the future unless you swallow your pride and maintain respect.

1) Don't mistake ego for Intelligence.

2) I couldn't care less about your threats, dentist.

I maintain where I stand...it's all ego and other things that i prefer not to post because it might humilate a fellow JTFer, such as yourself.

And these aren't threats..they're warnings for your sake to be a part of this movement and forum, as well as in real life; Don't want a decent person like you to be a bachelor for the rest of his life, if you get my jist.

Now if all of these posts are to mock me and for entertainment purposes, that's fine...hahah the joke is on me for taking you so seriously..April Fools in teh middle of July.

Oh.  How can you be so cruel!

I'm weeping.  Look what you've done, Doctor.  You're supposed to heal the sick, not fight people!

Shame on you!

Scriabin...I dont' know what to say anymore...we'll let the mods decide when they see this.

You never knew what to say in the first place.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

You never knew what to say in the first place.

Scriabin, your flaming Dan is getting absurd. This is preposterous.

Neither of you know everything about women. Part of being real men is getting up and getting on with life just because others don't accept everything you say to the T.

[Rubystars]

Ruby, just because you are an exception does not mean that the rule is not true. Most women in America and the West are more left-wing than men in almost all areas.

This is like saying that America was right not to ship the freed slaves all back to Africa in the 1860s because a small number of blacks reject their culture and turn out to be noble people.

Ending slavery was correct. What happened after that was what was wrong. In the same way, giving ALL citizens the right to vote (when before the majority of citizens had no political rights) was correct. The evil psuedo-feminism that drove a wedge between men and women and pushed women to the left promising that this would give them more rights is what was evil.

[AsheDina]

I wish they NEVER gave women a right to vote.  THAT was RIDICULOUS.

How do ya like me now.....

You might as well stop talkng about Barack Hussein Mohammed Obama, because obviously you don't think your own opinion should matter. You think over half the nation should have no direct political voice. I can't disagree with you more. What kind of democracy disenfranchises the majority of it's population?

Paulette is correct.

In the old days, a Man's vote meant something and you know what?  His wife had tremendous influence on the vote.

Now, everyone can vote and it means nothing.

  I was FORCED into this 'womans' world, I grew up to be a little lady.  NOTHING could have EVER prepared me for THIS.
  Rubystars- the ONLY REASON that I do what I DO, IS BECAUSE men now CANT. So, it is CLEAR- they NEED ME, I fight for THEM, NOT for this evil babylonian filthy SHE BEAST movement that has made men into NOTHING. I WEEP FOR MEN, all the time.  For women?  NOTHING- ZERO - ZILCH- NADA- NIX- NINE.   And REALLY- what woman in the right frame of mind would EVER want a PANSY, but.. THAT is EXACTLY what this movement has created.

BTW- WHO said a woman is interested in how 'good' a man 'looks' -David is hardly a candidate for Mr America- it is his MASCULINITY, brilliance, heart, kindness, strength, honor, forthrightness- that has ME enraptured. I HAVE NEVER liked ANY man just b/d he was 'good-looking' THAT is silliness.  
I really dont care- I am NOT popular with ANY women, EVER at all.  
Thats ok, b/c I have tons of male admirers that adore me, b/c I EMBOLDEN THEM.
Face it AMERICAN WOMAN- you have had your day, I HOPE ITS OVER very soon.

[Scriabin]

The problem is the liberals trying to drive a wedge between men and women, not women having rights and freedoms. You try to take away my vote now and we're going to have serious problems.

Don't worry, your vote is secure.  Until this nation collapses, your 'vote' will be secure.

[Scriabin]

You never knew what to say in the first place.

Scriabin, your flaming Dan is getting absurd. This is preposterous.

Neither of you know everything about women. Part of being real men is getting up and getting on with life just because others don't accept everything you say to the T.

He's the one talking about mods making decisions.

That is much more threatening and intimidating than my little words.

If you cannot understand that, then there's something in you that lacks a sensitivity.

[Dr. Dan]

You never knew what to say in the first place.

Scriabin, your flaming Dan is getting absurd. This is preposterous.

Neither of you know everything about women. Part of being real men is getting up and getting on with life just because others don't accept everything you say to the T.

He's the one talking about mods making decisions.

That is much more threatening and intimidating than my little words.

If you cannot understand that, then there's something in you that lacks a sensitivity.

I'm not threatening you, just warning you..and stating a fact that mods have been PMing me all night based on your insensitivity and flames on me...I didn't go tattling on youeither...mods are noticing how you are attempting to put me down with your "little words"...So just a heads up Scriabin. I dont' want you to go...I just want you to think for a second how wrong you are with what you are doing wtih me and fighting me the way you are fighting me. Go sleep on it.

peace out!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

He's the one talking about mods making decisions.

That is much more threatening and intimidating than my little words.

If you cannot understand that, then there's something in you that lacks a sensitivity.

Give us a break. You started with the insults--not Dan.

[Shlomo]

Feminism is the only issue.

Feminism is an ideology of the left but it's not the only issue. We need to fight to keep obama out of the presidency. I think feminism isn't going to amount to squat if we or Israel got nuked.

No woman ever made me act like an emasculated man. I act right no matter what other men or women say. That's what being a real man is all about. It's really you no matter what others say or do. That's what the Torah tells us to do.

And most women aren't feminists. Just these left wing nut-jobs. Sure they are evil... so are the left-wing but job men. The media is left-wing and biased. That's nothing new.

I really don't want a bunch of threads bashing women on the forum. How can that be good in any way, shape, or form? There are PLENTY of good women out there and that's why it's important to find one who loves Hashem and the Torah and whom you share a common life goal.

What is up with all the fighting and craziness lately? The kids on the Hebrew forum came and checked out the English forum the other day and went back telling Chaim they couldn't believe how we fight like this and how it shocked them. They don't act like this and they were only 14-17 years old. Is that what you want? It's so embarrassing.

If someone posts something hostile to me, do you think I start up multiple threads calling them names or start insulting their mother or lash out in curses? People would think I was a joke and no one would take me seriously. Let's have some dignity. Sometimes being "right" isn't as important as working together to start a mass movement so we can change this planet for the better. This honor/shame crap is for muslims. Let's get some priorities.

-Shlomo