Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
MUST READ FOR JEWS: E-Book "To Eliminate the Opiate" - Rabbi Marvin S. Antelman
q_q_:
--- Quote from: AryehYehudah on October 13, 2008, 08:09:24 AM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on September 24, 2008, 10:15:50 AM ---Infact, there's something interesting on youtube with Ron Paul talking about the CFR. (of course, i'm not for Ron Paul after how Chaim has described him.. But that doesn't invalidate everything he says). That's just an interesting footnote. A presidential candidate that often mentioned the US constitution, that many patriotic americans quite liked, he is not a loony, and he he has gotten as far as he has, and he talks about it quite candidly. Doesn't prove anything but it's just interesting, I found that clip yesterday.
--- End quote ---
I am not an expert on this stuff like you guys are and it could be a bit out of my league. I have some catching up to do and need to start reading more books about people writring of the current situation of the world we live in today and the science behind it. However, I have some knowledge of history and current affairs and think I can intervene a little. First of all, why would anyone care about Ron Paul. The man is the most virulent anti-semite in this country. He is David Duke times 100. The man's theories are so out of whack, he is one of the major proponents in the accusation saying 9/11 was a conspiracy against the American people by the Mossad and Israel.
--- End quote ---
I don't know much about him except that he is not pro israel.
I don't care about him either.
--- Quote from: AryehYehudah on October 13, 2008, 08:09:24 AM ---<snip>
And, did someone mention that one of these conspiracy theory authors was a ufologist??
Oh man... please... I don't want people on this site telling me the Government is covering up secrets from Roswell and that X-Files TV show is based on historical events.
--- End quote ---
I don't focus on theories But Theoretical question for you.
If a man from a drunk comes out of a mental institution, stumbles on something important, and publicises it, and it's not theory, but hard fact. Then that doesn't invalidate what he publicised. Especially if we can prove that he didn't make it up. He just brought the facts into the public domain. Or, he brought them into the public domain, and some news channels publicised them more.
The person might tell you that aliens came down. But that is not relevant, and doesn't invalidate the facts that they produced.
That is a theoretical case.
Do you accept my point?
Yes or No
--- Quote from: AryehYehudah on October 13, 2008, 08:09:24 AM ---Where in Torah do we read about space aliens from outerspace coming to Earth? G-d is the G-d of Earth, not planet Xeon. Some people do anything they can to grab your attention. Why not, if it makes them a best seller?
--- End quote ---
I can think of 2 places where SOME rabbis have commentated that it COULD be a reference to aliens. There are other less supernatural explanations.
One in Genesis - nefilim.
Another in Nach . book of Judges.
a third example is Ezekiel's vision, but no jewish commentator and probably no religious commentator has made such a case!
--- Quote from: AryehYehudah on October 13, 2008, 08:09:24 AM ---<snip> Our synagogues (churches too) are electing gay female rabbis as their heads. Anything associated with true religion is banned and reviled. Anything countering feminism, black supremacy and homosexuality is also banned. Of course, people who abused religion in the past brought us to where we are today. The cycle of chaos of a world headed for destruction. Did we Jews not lose Yerushalayim when we lost our faith in Hashem?
--- End quote ---
they are not "our synagogues" , they are not synagogues.
reform is not our religion.
The ultra orthodox shut all this out as much as possible, and build their own growing society. If you really can't bare the world, and you want to be religious, then that is an option!
Shlomo:
--- Quote from: muman613 on September 23, 2008, 08:18:09 PM ---Shalom,
Chamish doesnt think much of JTF and Chaim. I have written him and told him that Chaim is much more important to the movement. BTW, I dont believe this Sabatean thing at all. It is a rehash of just about every conspiracy theory.
muman613
--- End quote ---
I agree with muman. Chamish is a nut case and the sabatean/illuminati stuff is pure garbage. Tell me you don't believe this stuff. I suppose people are entitled to believe what ever nutty conspiracy stuff they want to believe but JTF does not support this type of fiction.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Shlomo on October 13, 2008, 01:59:01 PM ---<snip>
Chamish is a nut case and the sabatean/illuminati stuff is pure garbage. Tell me you don't believe this stuff. I suppose people are entitled to believe what ever nutty conspiracy stuff they want to believe but JTF does not support this type of fiction.
--- End quote ---
Chamish is not convincing on the sabbatean/illuminati stuff.. infact he hardly mentions the illuminati anyway. (maybe you're trying to use him as a scapegoat to criticise rabbi antelman.. I'm sure you're familiar with neither in any depth. There is really no substance to your argument).
rabbi antelman's work has some great stuff in it, some shocking stuff, but it is a bit random, and I didn't see much evidence for illuminati or powerful sabbatean control..
nobody has really defended that.. You are arguing with nobody and picking weak links, and just using chamish as the target for your attacks.
Let's talk Chamish, since that's the name you mention there.
Chamish's best work is on Rabin. Would you dismiss that as nutty conspiracy stuff?
I doubt that you would write a post serious enough to contend Barry Chamish's case, to contend the evidence that he publicised, that Yigal Amir did not kill rabin, and israeli intelligence did.
I doubt that you are aware of the evidence that he publicised, or that you would present the evidence and show how he twisted it into nutty conspiracy stuff.
I'm sure you can put together a more intelligent factual case than muman, but I doubt that you will. And if not willing to deal with substance, it's better not to criticise at all, it boils down to name calling.
You say JTF does not support "nutty conspiracy stuff" "this type of fiction"
You haven't dealt with a word of chamish's evidence.
Just saying he's a nutter. And JTF doesn't support nutty conspiracies.
Rhetoric, and poor rhetoric, because JTF accepts the following conspiracy theory written by an ex webmaster you now know to be a nutter.
(infact, most of us knew all along that he was a nutter!)
(that doesn't mean everything he writes is nonsense, i'm just using your reasoning against chamish and applying that to you, or to JTF whose position you represent)
http://www.jtf.org/israel/israel.rabin.assassination.htm
This doesn't look like the official story to me.
It includes no evidence, and it claims to know the motives of the people involved.
I suppose you might say that it's not a nutty conspiracy, because the person that wrote it is not a nutter... Ah, hang on.. He is a nutter. But you didn't know it at the time. Would that explain why it was not nutty when he wrote it, but now perhaps it is nutty?
http://www.jtf.org/israel/israel.rabin.assassination.htm
"
The Shabak plan was to get Amir to think that he would be assassinating Rabin, when in fact, Raviv was supposed to replace the bullets in Amir's pistol with blanks. Then, when Amir would fire the blanks and the attempted assassination would be averted, Rabin would be hailed as a great hero and the "horrible" right-wing, religious Sefardic Jews would be universally reviled.
The day after the attempted assassination, Raviv was to hold a press conference with Shabak
taking credit for preventing the killing by placing blanks in the killer's weapon.
In fact, Rabin's wife, Leah, stated publicly that she was not disturbed when she heard the shots being fired, because she was assured by her Shabak bodyguards that the shots were only blanks.
..
Raviv did indeed replace the bullets in Amir's pistol with blanks. However, Amir checked the bullets in the pistol, discovered that they were blanks, and then replaced the blanks with real bullets again.
So what was supposed to be a staged attempted assassination turned into a real assassination.
"
So, that's the JTF position?
I've seen Chamish provide more evidence than that article has! At the end of the day though, both are stating a conspiracy theory.. And you would concede that the person that wrote it for JTF is a nutter.
You can't argue against conspiracy theories, against nutters writing conspiracy theories, when JTF accepts both of those themselves.
And by the way, when I talk of Chamish on Rabin, i'm not talking about ANY of Chamish's specific theories e.g. what the motives are. Just the facts the he publicised. Facts that you seem to reject, (Of course, facts that you are probably not even aware of anyway, and don't want to be aware of, because of a name hovering near them).
muman613:
q_q_,
You appear to make less and less sense the more I read your posts. What is it you are arguing about?
I have looked at the Rabin conspiracy things. There may be some questions there but just because of this doesnt mean that everything that Chamish says is true. You seem to be ensnared in this feeling that anyone who doesnt believe Chamish, or thinks he is a nut case {which I do}, is personally against you. This is getting a little bit paranoid, don't you think?
You keep bringing up the Rabin murder issue. So what? There is no proof of anything even in that conspiracy. So many people have differing reasons for this. I just know that there are some questions about the official video {which I watched multiple times} and even those questions can be answered rationally. I will leave it open for others to investigate but still believe that for the most part Chamish is far gone.
Are you personally in some kind of relationship with Chamish? Maybe you really are Chamish? I have never seen someone defend someone so nutty as Chamish as you do. Please answer me this...
muman613
q_q_:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 15, 2008, 09:08:30 PM ---q_q_,
You appear to make less and less sense the more I read your posts. What is it you are arguing about?
I have looked at the Rabin conspiracy things. There may be some questions there but just because of this doesnt mean that everything that Chamish says is true. You seem to be ensnared in this feeling that anyone who doesnt believe Chamish, or thinks he is a nut case {which I do}, is personally against you. This is getting a little bit paranoid, don't you think?
You keep bringing up the Rabin murder issue. So what? There is no proof of anything even in that conspiracy. So many people have differing reasons for this. I just know that there are some questions about the official video {which I watched multiple times} and even those questions can be answered rationally. I will leave it open for others to investigate but still believe that for the most part Chamish is far gone.
Are you personally in some kind of relationship with Chamish? Maybe you really are Chamish? I have never seen someone defend someone so nutty as Chamish as you do. Please answer me this...
muman613
--- End quote ---
You know nothing, and you admit it, and that you have no interest in knowing anything about it.
I gave you enough chances to state facts.
You have no logic either. And everything you guess at is always wrong. And you only guess.
So I quoted Shlomo, not you.
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