Author Topic: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?  (Read 7198 times)

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Offline Xoce

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What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« on: November 18, 2008, 05:26:51 PM »
This is from Atlasshrugs.com (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/)

Quote
Pollard's sentence is an abomination. Pure anti-semitism. Let's be frank, shall we? If Israel wanted to spy on the US, they wouldn't use a Jewish guy. Helllooooo.

This is Pollard's 24th year in prison. The median sentence for the offense Pollard committed - one count of passing classified information to an ally - is 2 to 4 years. Pollard received his life sentence without a trial, as a result of a plea bargain which he honored and the U.S. government violated.

Flood the White House with Phone Calls: Free Pollard Now!

"I'm calling to register a strong request that President  Bush issue an immediate Pardon to Jonathan Pollard."

Flood the White House with Phone Calls: Free Pollard Now!

On Friday Nov 21st Jonathan Pollard will enter his 24th year in prison.
On Sunday Nov 23rd Ehud Olmert will be meeting with President Bush for the
last time.
On Thursday Nov 27th the American people will celebrate the Thanksgiving
Holiday - a holiday traditionally associated with Presidential clemencies.
Now is the time to call upon the President:
Free Jonathan Pollard!
Call: 202-456 -1111 or 202-456-1414
(Monday to Friday 9AM to 5PM - Eastern DST)
Every phone call is important. Everyone is encouraged to start calling the
White House and to call daily, repeatedly, until Jonathan is home in
Jerusalem, alive and well.

Presidential clemencies are traditionally signed precisely at this time and
prisoners are freed in advance of the holiday to go home to their families
for Thanksgiving. What finer gesture could President Bush make to the People
of Israel when he meets with the PM this coming week? Freedom for Jonathan
Pollard!

Mr. Bush has but 2 months left in office. These two months are a time of
grace, when the out-going president traditionally grants clemencies to
prisoners. There is no legal or moral reason that requires the president to
wait until his last day in office to grant clemency. Call the White House
today! Please, Mr. President, send Jonathan Pollard home!

White House telephone lines are manned from 4 PM
To ensure a faster response, follow the instructions
for "Rotary" telephones regardless!]

"I'm calling to register a strong request that President  Bush issue an immediate Pardon to Jonathan Pollard."
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Offline q_q_

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2008, 05:34:27 PM »
don't put it in quotes or it goes small.
Just use quotation marks
"
...
"

Jonthan Pollard is a hero, but aside from that,  that has spent WAY too long incarcerated. He has even spent time in solitary confinement.

Offline muman613

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2008, 05:40:49 PM »
FREE JONATHAN POLLARD NOW!

I have signed petitions and called newspaper editors on this one. For sure Pollard was not dealt with fairly, most likely because he is Jewish and worked for Israel. It seems like he is being sacrificed for the 'peace plan'...

muman613

PS: I have found using both a <quote> tag and a <size> tag in combination gets around the small font size when quoting...


[ quote ][ size=9pt ]This is a test[ /size ][ /quote ]


Quote
This is a test
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Taylor

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2008, 04:13:03 AM »
I think Pollard should be freed now! Why is he not on the Bush's pardon list.  >:(

Offline JTFFan

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2008, 04:15:22 AM »
Free Jonathan Pollard :usa+israel: >:(

Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2008, 04:21:31 AM »
He should be freed and make alyiah. Israel should strongly demand his liberation. It's silly that the US presses on Israel to make peace with terrorists with blood in their hands and free them.... and the same US refuses to liberate Pollard.

Offline JTFFan

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2008, 04:32:12 AM »
He should be freed and make alyiah. Israel should strongly demand his liberation. It's silly that the US presses on Israel to make peace with terrorists with blood in their hands and free them.... and the same US refuses to liberate Pollard.

I definitely agree they should have freed him a long time ago.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2008, 11:46:25 AM »
He did what he had to do, got caught, went to jail because it was illegal..

But he should be set free...he got a worse punishment than people who have broke worse laws. It's an injustice.

it's equally the same type of injustice that chaim is not allowed to even visit Israel, but that murderous arabs are allowed to serve in the Knesset..

I think you get my jist.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline Ulli

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2008, 11:54:37 AM »
They should let him free now! It is not fair to put him for such a long time in prison.

His deeds were not as evil as those of a large quantity of terrorists and criminals, who were pardoned before.

Israel is an ally of the USA. So it is a totally different issue to give informations to an ally as to an enemy.

Imo what he did was only technical treason.

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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2008, 01:35:21 PM »
What do I think about him?   His only "crime" is being a GOOD JEW, and it is a complete injustice and atrocious offense the way he has been kept in jail for so many years and treated like dirt, by both the US and Israeli establishments.    It's an antisemitic outrage, but Shimon Peres and the court Jews in the Israeli govt are also partly responsible!

Offline Ulli

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2008, 01:50:12 PM »
What do I think about him?   His only "crime" is being a GOOD JEW, and it is a complete injustice and atrocious offense the way he has been kept in jail for so many years and treated like dirt, by both the US and Israeli establishments.    It's an antisemitic outrage, but Shimon Peres and the court Jews in the Israeli govt are also partly responsible!

The Israeli gouvernment is imo responsible for him. He worked for them and they should do everthing to release him. This is called loyality.

Perhaps it is the best solution to transfer him to an Israeli prison and to release him after a short time quietly.

But he should get compensation for his jail time and he should be honored for his service. Althrough I think it is impossible to find an adequate compensation for two and a half decades of his life.

I know you would like to see another solution, but the most important thing is his freedom.

His story is one of the most sad I ever heard.  :'(
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline muman613

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2008, 03:15:28 PM »
We must do what we can to free Jonathan Pollard NOW... I am sick about this case. It seems to be an obvious case of antisemitism. If he were not Jewish, and not an Israeli, he would be walking free today. If he was a Muslim Nazi he would definitely be free... The way 'justice' is done in USA is that Jews always seem to get disproportionate sentences simply because they are Jewish. The latest Agroprocessing case where the Kosher slaughterhouse which employed illegals is a case of a Jewish business being persecuted. I know that here in CA there are many businesses which employ illegals and they get away with it... The Kosher slaughterhouse is being made into a case of persecution against the Jewish people.

muman613
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2008, 03:29:44 PM »
Ronald Reagan (who, praise G-d, is being boiled in the lake of fire as we speak) did this to Pollard as a favor to his Saudi masters.

Offline GodGunsAndGlory

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2008, 06:17:26 PM »
Stay in jail.

The last thing I want is for our intelligence to be a open book just because the spy is giving it to an ally.

The last thing I want is godless British people with no morals selling US intelligence to Mussies.

Reagan had nothing to do with the case, Pollard never appealed until 1990 and he PLEAD guilty he admitted guilt, therefore if he ever thought he never did anything wrong, why did he plea guilty?

Paul Hill never plead guilty because he knew what he did was right, so why wouldn't Pollard if he thought what he was doing was right plea guilty?

Offline Dan

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2008, 06:24:30 PM »
Stay in jail.

The last thing I want is for our intelligence to be a open book just because the spy is giving it to an ally.

The last thing I want is godless British people with no morals selling US intelligence to Mussies.

Reagan had nothing to do with the case, Pollard never appealed until 1990 and he PLEAD guilty he admitted guilt, therefore if he ever thought he never did anything wrong, why did he plea guilty?

Paul Hill never plead guilty because he knew what he did was right, so why wouldn't Pollard if he thought what he was doing was right plea guilty?

Are you alright GNG?!
You're begging to sound like a down right Nazi colaborator.

Offline muman613

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2008, 06:26:11 PM »
Stay in jail.

The last thing I want is for our intelligence to be a open book just because the spy is giving it to an ally.

The last thing I want is godless British people with no morals selling US intelligence to Mussies.

Reagan had nothing to do with the case, Pollard never appealed until 1990 and he PLEAD guilty he admitted guilt, therefore if he ever thought he never did anything wrong, why did he plea guilty?

Paul Hill never plead guilty because he knew what he did was right, so why wouldn't Pollard if he thought what he was doing was right plea guilty?

He pleaded guilty because he believed he was going to be given a deal, this is called plea bargaining, and it is a common practice in the courts. The problem is that the deal which he thought he would get was not given. I think it stinks that US promised him certain things...

Quotes from Wiki page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard
"
Jonathan Jay Pollard (born August 7, 1954 in Galveston, Texas) is a convicted Israeli spy and a former United States Naval civilian intelligence analyst. Pollard waived the right to trial as part of a plea deal for himself and his wife, pleaded guilty and was convicted on one count of spying for Israel.
"

"
Plea agreement and trial

Pollard's plea discussions with the Government sought both to minimize his chances of receiving a life sentence and to enable Anne Pollard to plead as well, which the Government was otherwise unwilling to let her do. The government, however, was prepared to offer Anne Pollard a plea agreement only after Jonathan Pollard consented to assist the government in its damage assessment and submitted to polygraph examinations and interviews with FBI agents and Department of Justice attorneys. Accordingly, over a period of several months, Pollard cooperated with the Government's investigation, and in late May 1986, the Government offered him a plea agreement, which he accepted.

By the terms of that agreement, Pollard was bound to plead guilty to one count of conspiracy to deliver national defense information to a foreign government,[15] which carried a maximum prison term of life, and to cooperate fully with the Government's ongoing investigation. He promised not to disseminate any information concerning his crimes without submitting to pre-clearance by the Director of Naval Intelligence. His agreement further provided that failure by Anne Pollard to adhere to the terms of her agreement entitled the Government to void his agreement, and her agreement contained a mirror-image provision.

In return for Pollard's plea, the Government promised not to charge him with additional crimes, entered into a plea agreement with Anne Pollard, and made several specific representations that are very much at issue in this case. The critical provisions are paragraphs 4(a) and 4(b) of the agreement, in which the Government "agreed as follows":

    (a) When [Pollard] appears before the Court for sentencing for the offense to which he has agreed to plead guilty, the Government will bring to the Court's attention the nature, extent and value of his cooperation and testimony. Because of the classified nature of the information Mr. Pollard has provided to the Government, it is understood that particular representations concerning his cooperation may have to be made to the Court in camera. In general, however, the Government has agreed to represent that the information Mr. Pollard has provided is of considerable value to the Government's damage assessment analysis, its investigation of this criminal case, and the enforcement of the espionage laws.

    (b) Notwithstanding Mr. Pollard's cooperation, at the time of sentencing the Government will recommend that the Court impose a sentence of a substantial period of incarceration and a monetary fine. The Government retains full right of allocution at all times concerning the facts and circumstances of the offenses committed by Mr. Pollard, and will be free to correct any misstatements of fact at the time of sentencing, including representations of the defendant and his counsel in regard to the nature and extent of Mr. Pollard's cooperation. Moreover, Mr. Pollard understands that, while the Court may take his cooperation into account in determining whether or not to impose a sentence of life imprisonment, this agreement cannot and does not limit the court's discretion to impose the maximum sentence.[citation needed]

On June 4, 1986 Jonathan Pollard pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to deliver national defense information to a foreign government. Before sentencing, and in violation of the plea agreement, Pollard and his wife Anne gave defiant media interviews in which they defended their spying, and attempted to rally American Jews to their cause. In a 60 Minutes interview, Anne said, "I feel my husband and I did what we were expected to do, and what our moral obligation was as Jews, what our moral obligation was as human beings, and I have no regrets about that".[9] Three weeks before Pollard's sentencing, Wolf Blitzer, at the time a Jerusalem Post correspondent, conducted a jail-cell interview with Pollard and penned an article which also ran in The Washington Post headlined, "Pollard: Not A Bumbler, but Israel's Master Spy." published on February 15, 1987.[16] Pollard told Blitzer about some of the information he provided the Israelis: reconnaissance satellite photography of Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) headquarters in Tunisia, specific capabilities of Libya's air defenses, and "the pick of U.S. intelligence about Arab and Islamic conventional and unconventional military activity, from Morocco to Pakistan and every country in between. This included both 'friendly' and 'unfriendly' Arab countries."

According to an opinion piece by Joseph C. Goulden, the breaking of the plea agreement (in which Pollard swore not to disclose classified material he obtained while working for the Navy and swore not to "provide information for purposes of publication or dissemination," unless it was reviewed by the Director of Naval Intelligence) remains one possible reason for Pollard's remaining in prison despite a change in U.S. parole laws.[17]

Before sentencing, as noted above, Secretary Weinberger delivered a 46-page classified memorandum to the sentencing judge. According to a pro-Pollard ACLU amicus brief,[18] Wolf Blitzer,[19] former U.S. District Court Judge George N. Leighton (see below) and even Pollard's own website[20] the contents of the memo were shown to Pollard's attorneys at the time. On the day before sentencing, Weinberger delivered a supplemental four-page memorandum to the judge. Pollard and his attorneys were shown the supplemental memorandum only briefly before sentencing. Pollard alleges that, in the memorandum, Weinberger accused him of treason and suggested a lifetime prison sentence.

Pollard never faced treason charges and was convicted within the boundaries of the charge he pleaded guilty to, although many speculate that the Weinberger memorandum outlined (and the classified memorandum to the judge detailed) treasonous activities by Pollard, due to the overwhelming assertion by U.S. defense and intelligence officials that Pollard should stay imprisoned for life.

The primary investigator in the Pollard case, Ron Olive, stated in his 2006 book Capturing Jonathan Pollard, that Pollard offered classified material to four other countries besides Israel, including Pakistan. Seven former U.S. secretaries of Defense have written petitions to keep Pollard imprisoned for life, and CIA chief George Tenet threatened to resign when the issue of releasing Pollard was put forward by the Clinton administration.[21]
"
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline cjd

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2008, 07:10:28 PM »
Sadly most folks here in America don't know anything in the least about Jonathan Pollard so unless the system itself of the small minority familiar with his case speak out he will be in jail for the duration. I take a dim view of people that try to undermine the America but in Pollard's case I think its high time he was freed and allowed to make aliyah. We had a president (Clinton) who did far worse when he saw fit to give sensitive rocket guidance information to Red China for campaign donations and it did not raise so much as an eyebrow by the American people. I think we may have missed the boat in petitioning President Bush to consider pardoning Pollard. Still and all we have over a month to make Bush aware of Pollard's case. It's really now or never since Bushes successor will not have any consideration for Pollard's case.
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

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Offline GodGunsAndGlory

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2008, 07:28:46 PM »
You guys have to understand my position before throwing out the Nazi word...

You can't be letting other countries, whether they are allies or not be having people go into the intelligence community to steal information. The US needs to show it won't tolerate any thing of that sort.

I doubt you guys would be saying the same thing if the UK or some other ally did the same thing, which is hypocritical.

Offline muman613

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2008, 07:31:32 PM »
You guys have to understand my position before throwing out the Nazi word...

You can't be letting other countries, whether they are allies or not be having people go into the intelligence community to steal information. The US needs to show it won't tolerate any thing of that sort.

I doubt you guys would be saying the same thing if the UK or some other ally did the same thing, which is hypocritical.

The punishment should not be cruel and unusual... In this case there are other 'spies' who have revealed more damaging information yet were not given life sentences. For this case, which he was convicted for 'conspiracy to deliver national defense information to a foreign government' the usual sentence was 2-4 years... Because Weinerberger suddenly called it treason {and he was NEVER charged with or found guilty of TREASON} he was given the life sentence... Very cruel and unusual!

muman613
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ulli

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2008, 07:32:58 PM »
You guys have to understand my position before throwing out the Nazi word...

You can't be letting other countries, whether they are allies or not be having people go into the intelligence community to steal information. The US needs to show it won't tolerate any thing of that sort.

I doubt you guys would be saying the same thing if the UK or some other ally did the same thing, which is hypocritical.

The punishment should not be cruel and unusual... In this case there are other 'spies' who have revealed more damaging information yet were not given life sentences. For this case, which he was convicted for 'conspiracy to deliver national defense information to a foreign government' the usual sentence was 2-4 years... Because Weinerberger suddenly called it treason {and he was NEVER charged with or found guilty of TREASON} he was given the life sentence... Very cruel and unusual!

muman613


Yes this is true.
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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2008, 10:08:40 PM »
Stay in jail.

The last thing I want is for our intelligence to be a open book just because the spy is giving it to an ally.

The last thing I want is godless British people with no morals selling US intelligence to Mussies.

Reagan had nothing to do with the case, Pollard never appealed until 1990 and he PLEAD guilty he admitted guilt, therefore if he ever thought he never did anything wrong, why did he plea guilty?

Paul Hill never plead guilty because he knew what he did was right, so why wouldn't Pollard if he thought what he was doing was right plea guilty?
Time to ban yet another troll...

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2008, 10:10:29 PM »
Are you alright GNG?!
You're begging to sound like a down right Nazi colaborator.
I second that. I predict that any moment Shlomo is going to give this schmuck the royal boot.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2008, 10:13:57 PM »
The primary investigator in the Pollard case, Ron Olive, stated in his 2006 book Capturing Jonathan Pollard, that Pollard offered classified material to four other countries besides Israel, including Pakistan.
Bulls%&t.

Someone's rarin' to join his boss the Gipper in the Lake of Fire.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2008, 10:16:39 PM »
You guys have to understand my position before throwing out the Nazi word...

You can't be letting other countries, whether they are allies or not be having people go into the intelligence community to steal information. The US needs to show it won't tolerate any thing of that sort.

I doubt you guys would be saying the same thing if the UK or some other ally did the same thing, which is hypocritical.
Save it for StørmFrønt. Only a goosestepping WN would be sad that Saddam Hussein's nuclear facilities were destroyed by the Israeli air force (thanks to Pollard doing the right thing).

Offline Xoce

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Re: What do JTF-ers think about Jonathan Pollard?
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2008, 10:19:32 PM »
Why the animosity towards Reagan?
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