Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Hakamim that rejected Kabbalah
q_q_:
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 22, 2009, 12:08:39 AM ---<snip>
PPS: Kabbalah is NOT magic... No more than Chemistry is magic. It is our belief that Kabbalah is the mechanism by which the universe was created. If we could harness it we could understand all the secrets of creation. Only very humble tzaddicks even have a chance of using it to alter reality.
--- End quote ---
When gentiles get it wrong I let them because they shouldn't be using the term in the first place and sounding jewish..
But you should know better. The plural of Tzaddik is Tzaddikim. Not saddicks or Tsaddicks or whatever you think.
You don't just add an 's' to a hebrew word to make a plural. Sometimes people do it if a word is difficult.. (like the plural for tallus/tallit may not be obvious to people). But everybody gets Tzaddikim right!
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 22, 2009, 12:08:39 AM ---BTW, in the shuir on the Secrets of Lashon HaKodesh the Rabbi mentioned a fact I had heard before. The words "Abbra Cadabra" are based on Hebrew. In Hebew the words "Avera CaDabera" roughly translates to "I do what I speak".
--- End quote ---
Well if you have heard the fact before you should know it's based on the aramaic. I doubt that you heard it wrong twice.
It is a well known and not particularly significant fact.. I guess you found it a great "secret".
<important snip>
muman613:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on January 22, 2009, 12:44:10 AM ---
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 22, 2009, 12:08:39 AM ---<snip>
PPS: Kabbalah is NOT magic... No more than Chemistry is magic. It is our belief that Kabbalah is the mechanism by which the universe was created. If we could harness it we could understand all the secrets of creation. Only very humble tzaddicks even have a chance of using it to alter reality.
--- End quote ---
When gentiles get it wrong I let them because they shouldn't be using the term in the first place and sounding jewish..
But you should know better. The plural of Tzaddik is Tzaddikim. Not saddicks or Tsaddicks or whatever you think.
You don't just add an 's' to a hebrew word to make a plural. Sometimes people do it if a word is difficult.. (like the plural for tallus/tallit may not be obvious to people). But everybody gets Tzaddikim right!
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 22, 2009, 12:08:39 AM ---BTW, in the shuir on the Secrets of Lashon HaKodesh the Rabbi mentioned a fact I had heard before. The words "Abbra Cadabra" are based on Hebrew. In Hebew the words "Avera CaDabera" roughly translates to "I do what I speak".
--- End quote ---
Well if you have heard the fact before you should know it's based on the aramaic. I doubt that you heard it wrong twice.
It is a well known and not particularly significant fact.. I guess you found it a great "secret".
<important snip>
--- End quote ---
q_q_,
You are one to correct peoples spelling? I realize that it is misspelled now and I apologize for the error. But that doesnt detract from what I was saying.
It is no big secret the fact that the origin of Abra Cadabra is from the hebrew.
According to the Chabad site, and according to the Rabbi I listened to last night, the orgin is from the hebrew.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/361874/jewish/Abraham.htm
--- Quote ---Abraham was also fully aware of the magical and idolatrous uses that could be developed from these mysteries, and the Talmud states that Abraham had a tract dealing with idolatry that consisted of 400 chapters. There is also a Talmudic teaching that Abraham taught the mysteries involving “unclean names” to the children of his concubines. This is based on the verse, “to the sons of the concubines that Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and he sent them away…to the lands of the East” (Genesis 25:6). These gifts consisted of occult mysteries, which then spread in eastern Asia. It is no wonder that in many of the eastern religions we find parallels to Kabbalistic teachings. One of the most simple and striking examples of the transmition of the occult is that every child knows a magician uses the phrase “Abracadabra.” This magical expression is none other than an Aramaic extension of the Hebrew abra— I will create, k’adabra—as I will speak—the knowledge of creation using letters and names as documented in Sefer Yetzirah.
--- End quote ---
You may learn something from Rabbi Mordechi Kraft @
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/361874/jewish/Abraham.htm
--- Quote ---Abraham was also fully aware of the magical and idolatrous uses that could be developed from these mysteries, and the Talmud states that Abraham had a tract dealing with idolatry that consisted of 400 chapters. There is also a Talmudic teaching that Abraham taught the mysteries involving “unclean names” to the children of his concubines. This is based on the verse, “to the sons of the concubines that Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and he sent them away…to the lands of the East” (Genesis 25:6). These gifts consisted of occult mysteries, which then spread in eastern Asia. It is no wonder that in many of the eastern religions we find parallels to Kabbalistic teachings. One of the most simple and striking examples of the transmition of the occult is that every child knows a magician uses the phrase “Abracadabra.” This magical expression is none other than an Aramaic extension of the Hebrew abra— I will create, k’adabra—as I will speak—the knowledge of creation using letters and names as documented in Sefer Yetzirah.
--- End quote ---
You may learn something from Rabbi Mordechi Kraft @
Listen to the Rabbi @ 1:10:20 when he explains how Abra Cadabra comes from the hebrew letters.
muman613:
According to this wiki site Aramaic was a language of exile. The Jews adopted Aramaic during the Babylonian exile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language#Aramaic
--- Quote ---Aramaic
Main article: Judeo-Aramaic language
Aramaic is a North-West Semitic language, like Canaanite. Its name derives either from "Aram Naharayim" in Upper Mesopotamia or from "Aram", an ancient name for Syria. Various dialects of Aramaic coevolved with Hebrew throughout much of its history, as major languages in the region. The words in Greek and Hebrew at the time corresponding to the word "Hebrew" (Εβραις, Εβραιστι, עברית יהודית) are distinguished from Aramaic συριστι συριακη.[22]
The Persian Empire that captured Babylonia a few decades later adopted Imperial Aramaic as the official international language of the Persian Empire. The Israelite population, who had been exiled to Babylon from Jerusalem and its surrounding region of Judah, were allowed to return to Jerusalem to establish a Persian province, usually called Judea. Thus under occupation and enslavement, Aramaic became the administrative language for Judea when dealing with the rest of the Persian Empire.
The Aramaic script also evolved from the Paleo-Semitic script, but they diverged significantly. By the 1st century C.E., the Aramaic script developed into the distinctive Hebrew square script (also known as Assyrian Script, Ktav Ashuri), extant in the Dead Sea Scrolls and similar to the script still in use today.
...
Displacement
By the early half of the 20th century, most scholars followed Geiger and Dalman in thinking that Aramaic became a spoken language in the land of Israel by the start of Israel's Hellenistic Period in the 4th century B.C.E., and that as a corollary Hebrew ceased to function as a spoken language around the same time. Segal, Klausner, and Ben Yehuda are notable exceptions to this view. During the latter half of the 20th century, accumulating archaeological evidence and especially linguistic analysis of the Dead Sea Scrolls has disproven that view. The Dead Sea Scrolls, uncovered in 1946-1948 near Qumran revealed ancient Jewish texts overwhelmingly in Hebrew, not Aramaic. The Qumran scrolls indicate that Hebrew texts were readily understandable to the average Israelite, and that the language had evolved since Biblical times as spoken languages do. Recent scholarship recognizes that reports of Jews speaking in Aramaic indicates a multi-lingual society, not necessarily the primary language spoken. Alongside Aramaic, Hebrew co-existed within Israel as a spoken language.
--- End quote ---
Shlomo:
q_q_,
This is no way for an Orthodox Jew to conduct himself. While it does not excuse the others' behavior, the other members are starting to respond negatively and it's time this stops. Unity is important for our movement if we are to succeed.
As Jews, we are commanded to show kindness, patience, and to be slow to wrath or angry speech. We are also commanded by Torah to speak against lashon hora.
This is a warning. I am very close to banning you. It's a shame because I believe you are a good Jew but I cannot allow this type of conduct on the forum. By allowing you to continue, it sets a precedence and makes others feel afraid to share their opinions.
Please heed my warning and stop criticizing and insulting the other members. Also, you are not one to correct the others' spelling or grammar. This has gone on long enough.
If this thread does not continue on topic, I will be forced to lock it... which is a shame because it contains good material.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Lubab on January 20, 2009, 04:55:43 PM ---Did anyone see how the Rambam went into detail in that Chapter from Hilchos Yesodei Hatorah about how G-d created the physical and spiritual worlds. That IS kabbalah (how G-d created the world). The Rambam is right there teaching you Kabbalah and some here are still claiming he rejects kabbalah?! This is madness.
I think these people just don't know what kabbalah is. They think kabbalah=something illogical and mystical. When it fact it is quite logical, and only appears mystical to those that don't understand what it is saying.
--- End quote ---
There are many Rabbis whom I know personally who said point blank, "The Rambam did not have the kabbalah." I have yet to meet a single rabbi who tried to claim that Rambam was a kabbalist in the conventional sense of the term (as we use it today - Yes, mystical). The only disagreement from the various rabbis I talked to was over whether "if the Rambam had had the kabbalah, would he have written what he wrote, or would he have "changed his views" " Some (whose opinions I find ridiculous) have said that if Rambam was shown the kabbalah, his views would have been way different. Other rabbis have said it is mistaken to suggest such a thing, and that had Rambam seen kabbalah or not seen it, his views would have been what they were and his writings would be what they are today.
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