Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Hakamim that rejected Kabbalah
GoIsraelGo!:
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 22, 2009, 12:08:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: republicandox on January 21, 2009, 10:05:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on January 21, 2009, 09:54:54 PM ---
--- Quote from: republicandox on January 21, 2009, 09:41:38 PM ---
--- Quote from: Sefardic Panther on January 15, 2009, 01:24:46 PM ---I have heard of several Rabbis who were secretly Kabbalists but when they had to give lectures to secular and semi observant Jews they would tell them to “stay far away from Kabbalah. It is nothing but superstitious folly and Kabbalists are worse than christians instead of giving us 3 gods they give us 10”. The reason for this was not only because people without adequate Toranic knowledge tend to misunderstand Kabbalah but also to stop them getting into Practical Kabbalah.
Practical Kabbalah tells one how to command the Jin (what european fools would call “angels” and “demons”). Shlomo HaMelek was famous for this. The big danger is that Jin don’t like to be bossed around by humans and unless the Practical Kabbalist is a Tzadiq gadol the Jin will eventually kill them.
The Morrocan Yehudim and Temani were big into Practical Kabbalah. Is it possible that Rabbi Yihyah Gafekh and other Hakamim that rejected Kabbalah knew that Kabbalah was real but publicly rejected it to try to put an end to the widespread use of Practical Kabbalah? Afterall such Hakamim were going against the grain and I am sure they did not think they were bigger than the Ramban.
--- End quote ---
My Grandfather lived and died in Mougador Morocco. He was a Orthodox Rabbi and he was an expert on kabbalah. My Mom has told me that her father ( Rabbi Yamin Bougamin )
told her when she was little that the kabbalah was magic...but that it was also very dangerous! My Mom never studied it nor would I. We listen to the wise!
An example of practical kabbalah could be compared to putting a baby seal in a tank with a shark. The situation could be dangerous / or deadly.
The kabbalah is for the experts who have mastered Torah.
Shalom - Dox
--- End quote ---
It would be dangerous if it worked then all that may well be correct. You assume that it does work.
Maybe your mother's father never did it either. (he just studied theory).
If it was so powerful , these kabbalists would have used it effectively on our enemies, and not been persecuted so much for 2000 years.
I guarantee that they tried.
You have succeeded in lowering the level of intelligent discussion though. With stories about how dangerous it is..
Doing that happens to be a classic set up for a con.. like the egyptian strong man clip on memri.
--- End quote ---
Obviously you cannot make a reply without an insult. Typical Liberal !
--- End quote ---
Republicandox,
Take no heed of q_q_, he is always insulting and degrading to almost everyone. I think it is a compliment when he insults people. Some people have developmental problems and don't know how to relate to other people. I believe q_q_ is one of those loner types who 'didn't get along with others' when he was growing up.
Just look at his history of postings...
PS: Make his will your will, so that Hashem may make your will his will.
PPS: Kabbalah is NOT magic... No more than Chemistry is magic. It is our belief that Kabbalah is the mechanism by which the universe was created. If we could harness it we could understand all the secrets of creation. Only very humble tzaddicks even have a chance of using it to alter reality.
BTW, in the shuir on the Secrets of Lashon HaKodesh the Rabbi mentioned a fact I had heard before. The words "Abbra Cadabra" are based on Hebrew. In Hebew the words "Avera CaDabera" roughly translates to "I do what I speak".
For a very good overview of what Kabbalah is and isn't check out Rabbi Arial BarTzaddoks website @
http://www.koshertorah.com/
--- End quote ---
Hi Muman, thank you for your kindness. I will not worry about this. I know that sometimes on forums people ( pick ) on other people, so I am not too shocked.
I was simply just sharing my story about my Grandfather, and how he was a Rabbi and studied Kabbalah. I am very proud of my Grandfather, he died before I was born
so all I have of my Grandfather are stories about him from my Mom and her sisters. I suspect that qq may have seen my posts about Moslems or Liberals, while I speak my opinion so freely and some may not agree with me, I do not attack any one person. I only respond accordingly if I am verbally attacked first.
If I have ever offended anyone on the forum I am sorry. Like I said, I do not hide my feelings about Moslems and the things Liberals do, but at the same time I don't want to fight with anyone.
Thank you again Muman ! Shalom - Dox
GoIsraelGo!:
--- Quote from: Shlomo on January 22, 2009, 01:19:33 AM ---q_q_,
This is no way for an Orthodox Jew to conduct himself. While it does not excuse the others' behavior, the other members are starting to respond negatively and it's time this stops. Unity is important for our movement if we are to succeed.
As Jews, we are commanded to show kindness, patience, and to be slow to wrath or angry speech. We are also commanded by Torah to speak against lashon hora.
This is a warning. I am very close to banning you. It's a shame because I believe you are a good Jew but I cannot allow this type of conduct on the forum. By allowing you to continue, it sets a precedence and makes others feel afraid to share their opinions.
Please heed my warning and stop criticizing and insulting the other members. Also, you are not one to correct the others' spelling or grammar. This has gone on long enough.
If this thread does not continue on topic, I will be forced to lock it... which is a shame because it contains good material.
--- End quote ---
Thank you Shlomo, I do appreciate you trying to help. I was just talking about my Grandfather and that seemed to annoy QQ. I did call him/her a Liberal but that was after he/she said I lowered the level on intelligent discussion. I am sure you saw the post and reply.
I never meant to do anything other than to talk about my Grandfather!
Thank you again. Shalom - Dox
q_q_:
well republicandox.. I see you are female, I didn't see that before..
i'm normally more tolerant with females because most are expected to be somewhat more emotional and less logical.. in my books.
if your name was Natalie or Rachel or something female, you'd have gotten away with your "argument" a little more easily! I don't think you really noticed what you made it look like you were arguing. There is nothing annoying that I see about your grandfather.
Sefardic Panther:
G-d bless you republicandox. I highly revere all Orthodox Rabbis and their offspring. Moroccan Yehudi women are very very intelligent like Dihya Al-Kahina who was famous for her use of practical Kabbalah. You should never be intimidated by anyone!!!
Tread carefully q_q_! “bolshevik” is a very bad name to call any religious Jew especially the grand daughter of a Rabbi!
Regardless of what anyone says practical Kabbalah oviously works! If it did not there would not be such a strong prohibition against practicing it!!!
You may argue that “if it worked why did’nt the Jews use it to destroy their oppressors?” Perhaps it was Kabbalah Masit which enabled the Jews to survive for so long among people who hated them so much. Anyway if Hashem wanted to punish us the biggist Kabbalist in the world would not have been able to save us!
This name calling between Litaim and Hasidim should stop right now before we become like the sunni and shia!!! I do not look down on Litaim for rejecting mysticism, some of the best Yehudim in the Holy Land are Litaim. We both have our own way of fallowing Torah so what? We should agree to disagree!!!
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Sefardic Panther on January 22, 2009, 02:55:41 PM ---
This name calling between Litaim and Hasidim should stop right now before we become like the sunni and shia!!! I do not look down on Litaim for rejecting mysticism, some of the best Yehudim in the Holy Land are Litaim. We both have our own way of fallowing Torah so what? We should agree to disagree!!!
--- End quote ---
What are "Litaim" ? What are you talking about?
I haven't engaged in any namecalling. It appears you refuse to face the arguments against your wild theories that you are posting here.
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