Interesting Article about Ovadia Yosefs opinion of smolmert.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Never thought of that. I always thought that only actual Jews were supposed to wear the kippah.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

One last comment here that is worth making: it is not the case that the rabbinic community is in any way united behind R.O.Y. or agrees with his theology. Many Ravs are, even if they do not directly attack Yosef, going on record as holding different Torah interpretations than he has or even of not supporting the Shas party. The OP of this thread even mentioned this. Rav Eliyahu, a hugely influential and respected rabbi, is openly supporting the National Union Party as an alternative to Shas.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Uh oh.  Here we go again with the fighting over R.O.Y. 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree about R.O.Y. 

But I'll tell you what.  If I ever hear of him coming to speak at a Synagogue, I'll be sure to post it here so everyone can come and hear him for themselves, and ask him questions.  R.O.Y. was once actually a speaker/guest at this Sefardic Synagogue on the Upper East Side a while back.  DownwithIslam, I'm sure you would love that. 

  His son recently came to Queens, and he spoke to us. If one would see the genius of these men they wouldn't know where to run after speeking soo much nonsense here and other places.
  For the record the garbage that is constantly spoken agains't the Rav is not true and worse then Lashon Hara. They're just picking to hate Rav Ovadia Yosef Shlita and the Torah. I would also like to say to other's reading their statements not to take them seriously and not to take part in their punishments. 

EDIT: Whoa! Let's tone down the heated rhetoric here.

[DownwithIslam]

Uh oh.  Here we go again with the fighting over R.O.Y. 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree about R.O.Y. 

But I'll tell you what.  If I ever hear of him coming to speak at a Synagogue, I'll be sure to post it here so everyone can come and hear him for themselves, and ask him questions.  R.O.Y. was once actually a speaker/guest at this Sefardic Synagogue on the Upper East Side a while back.  DownwithIslam, I'm sure you would love that. 

  His son recently came to Queens, and he spoke to us. If one would see the genius of these men they wouldn't know where to run after speeking soo much nonsense here and other places.
  For the record the garbage that is constantly spoken agains't the Rav is not true and worse then Lashon Hara. They're just picking to hate Rav Ovadia Yosef Shlita and the Torah. I would also like to say to other's reading their statements not to take them seriously and not to take part in their punishments. 

EDIT: Whoa! Let's tone down the heated rhetoric here.

Why don't you explain the actions of a man who enabled oslo any better.

[DownwithIslam]

Uh oh.  Here we go again with the fighting over R.O.Y. 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree about R.O.Y. 

But I'll tell you what.  If I ever hear of him coming to speak at a Synagogue, I'll be sure to post it here so everyone can come and hear him for themselves, and ask him questions.  R.O.Y. was once actually a speaker/guest at this Sefardic Synagogue on the Upper East Side a while back.  DownwithIslam, I'm sure you would love that. 

  His son recently came to Queens, and he spoke to us. If one would see the genius of these men they wouldn't know where to run after speeking soo much nonsense here and other places.
  For the record the garbage that is constantly spoken agains't the Rav is not true and worse then Lashon Hara. They're just picking to hate Rav Ovadia Yosef Shlita and the Torah. I would also like to say to other's reading their statements not to take them seriously and not to take part in their punishments. 

EDIT: Whoa! Let's tone down the heated rhetoric here.

I wonder what the rabbi would say when I question him about his illegal bribery scandals, shlomo ben iszri sitting in jail, aryeh deri, supporting oslo, enabling the destruction of the federman house, throwing chaim ben pesach out of israel, enabling the amona massacre etc........

Will he tell me that it was all ok because he pocketed a few sheckels for his institutions?

[DownwithIslam]

Uh oh.  Here we go again with the fighting over R.O.Y. 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree about R.O.Y. 

But I'll tell you what.  If I ever hear of him coming to speak at a Synagogue, I'll be sure to post it here so everyone can come and hear him for themselves, and ask him questions.  R.O.Y. was once actually a speaker/guest at this Sefardic Synagogue on the Upper East Side a while back.  DownwithIslam, I'm sure you would love that. 

Lisa, I have to admit that I would never go to see him. I have never ever hurt a jew and in fact, I have helped many. ROY has trillions of gallons of jewish blood on his hands which he was willing to allow spilled simply because he could pocket gelt. He is not worthy of my presence. I am not the one who was sitting in the government enabling oslo.

[Nadav]

CF

All the Rabbis do not agree with each other. When Kahane was running Kach not a single one of the Torah parties in the Knesset agreed with him. In fact, there was very few Torah parties that agreed with each other! People have different interpretations of Torah. I obviously happen to disagree with Rav Ovadia Yosef on his stance of land for peace. For example, he approved the giving back of the Sinai to Egypt which the Israeli did after his ruling. Again, his interpretation of Torah, but I disagree completely.

Absolutely true and a good point. I do recognize that Rabbi Yosef is an accomplished scholar, and on the merit of this, I respect his opinions.

Exactly! In fact, I can say I cannot disagree with him on Torah since I cannot even compare my knowledge to such a Torah sage. I can however disagree with the political implications of such a ruling, for ex. giving back the Sinai to Egypt.

And Tzvi is right. G-d forbid a Jew should disrespect any Torah sage, the consequences won't be pretty.

[DownwithIslam]

CF

All the Rabbis do not agree with each other. When Kahane was running Kach not a single one of the Torah parties in the Knesset agreed with him. In fact, there was very few Torah parties that agreed with each other! People have different interpretations of Torah. I obviously happen to disagree with Rav Ovadia Yosef on his stance of land for peace. For example, he approved the giving back of the Sinai to Egypt which the Israeli did after his ruling. Again, his interpretation of Torah, but I disagree completely.

Absolutely true and a good point. I do recognize that Rabbi Yosef is an accomplished scholar, and on the merit of this, I respect his opinions.

Exactly! In fact, I can say I cannot disagree with him on Torah since I cannot even compare my knowledge to such a Torah sage. I can however disagree with the political implications of such a ruling, for ex. giving back the Sinai to Egypt.

And Tzvi is right. G-d forbid a Jew should disrespect any Torah sage, the consequences won't be pretty.

So what is the price to be paid for enabling oslo and the slaughtering of jews that came along with it? Does someone get a pass and have his tuchis saved simply because he wrote seforim? Now I am not disrespecting anyone at all, I have been extra careful to say anything directly inflammatory.

[DownwithIslam]

Uh oh.  Here we go again with the fighting over R.O.Y. 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree about R.O.Y. 

But I'll tell you what.  If I ever hear of him coming to speak at a Synagogue, I'll be sure to post it here so everyone can come and hear him for themselves, and ask him questions.  R.O.Y. was once actually a speaker/guest at this Sefardic Synagogue on the Upper East Side a while back.  DownwithIslam, I'm sure you would love that. 

  His son recently came to Queens, and he spoke to us. If one would see the genius of these men they wouldn't know where to run after speeking soo much nonsense here and other places.
  For the record the garbage that is constantly spoken agains't the Rav is not true and worse then Lashon Hara. They're just picking to hate Rav Ovadia Yosef Shlita and the Torah. I would also like to say to other's reading their statements not to take them seriously and not to take part in their punishments. 

EDIT: Whoa! Let's tone down the heated rhetoric here.

I wonder what the rabbi would say when I question him about his illegal bribery scandals, shlomo ben iszri sitting in jail, aryeh deri, supporting oslo, enabling the destruction of the federman house, throwing chaim ben pesach out of israel, enabling the amona massacre etc........

Will he tell me that it was all ok because he pocketed a few sheckels for his institutions?

Can you address the complaints I have raised in this post?

[DownwithIslam]

What is really disgusting is that every time someone accurately points out the bloodsucking actions of certain religious figures, people dismiss the post instead of addressing the complaints. Telling someone that they will burn in hell for saying it only proves the complaints are valid and that answer are unable to be provided.

[DownwithIslam]

Another gem from the shas party. It seems like they only exist to get jews killed while lining their pockets with kickbacks.

http://jta.org/news/article/2008/04/01/107834/benzirishas

[Spectator]

I wonder what the rabbi would say when I question him about his illegal bribery scandals, shlomo ben iszri sitting in jail, aryeh deri, supporting oslo, enabling the destruction of the federman house, throwing chaim ben pesach out of israel, enabling the amona massacre etc........

Will he tell me that it was all ok because he pocketed a few sheckels for his institutions?

1. Supporting Oslo.

Judaism says that we are obliged to save lives. Saving lives puts on hold ALL commanments (excluding idolatry, adultery and murder), including the commandment to settle the Land of Israel. It is now clear to us that "peace" agreements not save but, on the contrary, take lives of the Jews. But it became clear in late 90-ies with the increase of terror attacks. Before Oslo agreement, it was clear only to defense experts. Rabbi Ovadya Yosef is not a military/intelligence expert, neither he is a prophet. He made his decision based on the information he had. So Bolshevik establishment who poisoned all the country with the lies is to blame, not Rabbi Ovadya.

After the truth became clear, Rabbi Ovadya did never support further retreats. He ordered Shas MK's to vote against the withdrawal from Gaza.

2. Conviction of Deri and Ben Izri.

Who convicted them? Sodomist Bolshevik Israeli courts. I don't know whether the charges against them are a complete lie or exaggeration, but you should never trust Israeli courts when their desicions are against religious or nationalist people. The same courts detained 14-17 years old Israeli settler girls for several weeks without any charge.     

3. Destruction of the Federman house, throwing Chaim ben Pesach out of Israel, enabling the Amona massacre..

Rabbi Ovadya is not an almighty tsar. Even if Shas party sits in a goverment, it doesn't mean it can do what it wishes.  You must understand that Israel is ruled by Leftist Elite. So if they apply all their power to do something, it is very hard to stop them. Chaim ben Pesach is a very dangerous threat to them so even if the Interior minister had allowed him to enter Israel, they would find the way to block it (the easiest way is to appeal to Supreme Court, you now who are its judges).

I saw somebody said in this thread that Rabbi Ovadya should have ordred Israeli Jews to overthrow this corrupt ruling system. This is not right, becuase Israeli Jews wouldn't do it. Most of them are concerned with earing their living, etc. and they are afraid to struggle with the system which is ruthless to those who challenge it. You should understand that Israelis do not do all that rabbis say. Of course, there would be some heroes who'd follow it, but they would be a minority and the system surely kill them.

Halachic rule should take reality into account.

You can ask why we need Shas then?
Shas influences the system from within. Without Shas, they could have done much worse things. When Shas sees it can really do something, it does. For example, they prevented Livni to give half of Jerusalem to Arabs and caused her goverment to fall. Not to mention their support of Torah institutions.

Shas doesn't care how its actions look like, it cares about the results. And they have achieved much. That is why the Leftist establishment hates them.

[Spectator]

By the way, Israeli police is going to interrogate Avigdor Lieberman.

I disagree with him on sevreal serious issues. I also don't know whether he's really guilty and to what extent.

But I do notice that they started all this issue when his party has done well in elections, winning 15 mandates. Lieberman is also known to have the hard stance on so-called "Israeli Arabs" who now openly support Hamas. His views and charisma is inconvinient to the leftist establishment, that is why they opened this issue now, in order to force him to change his position or to send him to jail.

The same thing happened to Arye Deri 8 years ago. When the establishment sees a leader who has the potential to challenge them, they apply against him the law/court system where they are dictators and no one can oust them from there.

[DownwithIslam]

Spectator, Ovadia Yosef just admitted that he supports Smolmert because Smolmert gave money to him. Israellnn mentioned it in the article I posted. I don't agree with anything you have posted. It was clear to everyone except those that want israel to be destroyed that giving away land does not lead to peace.

[muman613]

Spectator, Ovadia Yosef just admitted that he supports Smolmert because Smolmert gave money to him. Israellnn mentioned it in the article I posted. I don't agree with anything you have posted. It was clear to everyone except those that want israel to be destroyed that giving away land does not lead to peace.

I agree with Spectator who basically said the same thing I said originally "POLITICS"...

The Rabbi did use Halachic opinion to determine that Pekui Nefesh was applicable to the situation, he has since reconsidered that position. To say that he appreciates the money which he recieved from Olmerts government doesn't make him a criminal. It is important in Judaism to be thankful to those who have supported you.

I do not share your condemnation of Rabbi Yosef.

[DownwithIslam]

Spectator, Ovadia Yosef just admitted that he supports Smolmert because Smolmert gave money to him. Israellnn mentioned it in the article I posted. I don't agree with anything you have posted. It was clear to everyone except those that want israel to be destroyed that giving away land does not lead to peace.

I agree with Spectator who basically said the same thing I said originally "POLITICS"...

The Rabbi did use Halachic opinion to determine that Pekui Nefesh was applicable to the situation, he has since reconsidered that position. To say that he appreciates the money which he recieved from Olmerts government doesn't make him a criminal. It is important in Judaism to be thankful to those who have supported you.

I do not share your condemnation of Rabbi Yosef.

But Muman, have you not heard Chaim address him over and over again? Chaim pointed out much more eloquently than I ever could, all the evil that he has done. This is a man who had his shas puppet throw chaim ben pesach out of Israel on the same day that he met with Arafat. The defense of this evildoer makes no sense to me.

[muman613]

Spectator, Ovadia Yosef just admitted that he supports Smolmert because Smolmert gave money to him. Israellnn mentioned it in the article I posted. I don't agree with anything you have posted. It was clear to everyone except those that want israel to be destroyed that giving away land does not lead to peace.

I agree with Spectator who basically said the same thing I said originally "POLITICS"...

The Rabbi did use Halachic opinion to determine that Pekui Nefesh was applicable to the situation, he has since reconsidered that position. To say that he appreciates the money which he recieved from Olmerts government doesn't make him a criminal. It is important in Judaism to be thankful to those who have supported you.

I do not share your condemnation of Rabbi Yosef.

But Muman, have you not heard Chaim address him over and over again? Chaim pointed out much more eloquently than I ever could, all the evil that he has done. This is a man who had his shas puppet throw chaim ben pesach out of Israel on the same day that he met with Arafat. The defense of this evildoer makes no sense to me.

Certainly that is an opinion which I object to. But my issue is that there are reasons which these things happen. It is called Politics and I object to the Rabbi being involved in politics. But there is much Jewish thought on respect of Torah Scholars. In this particular case I would rather err on the side of Jewish wisdom than on political ideas. Certainly the hardship and bitterness which results from any leaders decisions will be reckoned by the heavenly tribunal. In a democratic system the leaders are the responsibility of the voters. If the Rabbi represents the wishes of the Shas party and is democratically elected the only thing to do would be to oppose his policies.

My only objection is to using slurs and insults against a man who is recognized as a Torah scholar. I have heard reputable, zionist rabbis quote halacha which was decided by Rabbi Yosef and as a result I will suspend harsh judgement. If he is so evil he will be exposed.

Regarding the decision of Chaim in Israel do you refer to any particular statement he made on the matter? Or is it just that he has not stood up and demanded that Chaim be allowed into Israel? I suspect he was not able to affect the outcome of the decision because it was not politically acceptable.

[DownwithIslam]

Spectator, Ovadia Yosef just admitted that he supports Smolmert because Smolmert gave money to him. Israellnn mentioned it in the article I posted. I don't agree with anything you have posted. It was clear to everyone except those that want israel to be destroyed that giving away land does not lead to peace.

I agree with Spectator who basically said the same thing I said originally "POLITICS"...

The Rabbi did use Halachic opinion to determine that Pekui Nefesh was applicable to the situation, he has since reconsidered that position. To say that he appreciates the money which he recieved from Olmerts government doesn't make him a criminal. It is important in Judaism to be thankful to those who have supported you.

I do not share your condemnation of Rabbi Yosef.

But Muman, have you not heard Chaim address him over and over again? Chaim pointed out much more eloquently than I ever could, all the evil that he has done. This is a man who had his shas puppet throw chaim ben pesach out of Israel on the same day that he met with Arafat. The defense of this evildoer makes no sense to me.

Certainly that is an opinion which I object to. But my issue is that there are reasons which these things happen. It is called Politics and I object to the Rabbi being involved in politics. But there is much Jewish thought on respect of Torah Scholars. In this particular case I would rather err on the side of Jewish wisdom than on political ideas. Certainly the hardship and bitterness which results from any leaders decisions will be reckoned by the heavenly tribunal. In a democratic system the leaders are the responsibility of the voters. If the Rabbi represents the wishes of the Shas party and is democratically elected the only thing to do would be to oppose his policies.

My only objection is to using slurs and insults against a man who is recognized as a Torah scholar. I have heard reputable, zionist rabbis quote halacha which was decided by Rabbi Yosef and as a result I will suspend harsh judgement. If he is so evil he will be exposed.

Regarding the decision of Chaim in Israel do you refer to any particular statement he made on the matter? Or is it just that he has not stood up and demanded that Chaim be allowed into Israel? I suspect he was not able to affect the outcome of the decision because it was not politically acceptable.

Muman, it's more than shas not doing anything to help Chaim. What happened was that the Shas interior minister threw Chaim ben pesach out of the country on the same day that the shas shmucks met arafat. The reason why Ovadia Yosef is to blame is because their is a shas council of torah sages which has to approve every action the party makes. Ovadia Yosef is the head of the council of torah sages so he is 1000% responsible for every evil thing shas has done including throwing chaim ben pesach out of israel. Their is no excuse for the evil actions of the party and its leaders.

[Ulli]

DWI, I think the best you can do is to visit Ovadia Yosef. I mean it.

Take a plane and go to Israel. Then you should make an appointment with him.

We have lots of members here from Israel, who will accommodate you during your visit. So your expenditures will be modest.

Tell him your oppinion and then listen to his response.

You are his brother in faith. I am shure he will agree to meet with you.

Then you should report your fellow Jews here what he has said and what his reasons were to do so.

 

[DownwithIslam]

DWI, I think the best you can do is to visit Ovadia Yosef. I mean it.

Take a plane and go to Israel. Then you should make an appointment with him.

We have lots of members here from Israel, who will accommodate you during your visit. So your expenditures will be modest.

Tell him your oppinion and then listen to his response.

You are his brother in faith. I am shure he will agree to meet with you.

Then you should report your fellow Jews here what he has said and what his reasons were to do so.

 

I know simple jews who I can learn more from than him.

[Ulli]

DWI, I think the best you can do is to visit Ovadia Yosef. I mean it.

Take a plane and go to Israel. Then you should make an appointment with him.

We have lots of members here from Israel, who will accommodate you during your visit. So your expenditures will be modest.

Tell him your oppinion and then listen to his response.

You are his brother in faith. I am shure he will agree to meet with you.

Then you should report your fellow Jews here what he has said and what his reasons were to do so.

 

I know simple jews who I can learn more from than him.

I think it is not about learning from him.

It is about talking things out between two brothers.

[DownwithIslam]

DWI, I think the best you can do is to visit Ovadia Yosef. I mean it.

Take a plane and go to Israel. Then you should make an appointment with him.

We have lots of members here from Israel, who will accommodate you during your visit. So your expenditures will be modest.

Tell him your oppinion and then listen to his response.

You are his brother in faith. I am shure he will agree to meet with you.

Then you should report your fellow Jews here what he has said and what his reasons were to do so.

 

I know simple jews who I can learn more from than him.

I think it is not about learning from him.

It is about talking things out between two brothers.

Pheasant, how could I face a person who enabled the slaughtering of AT LEAST 1800 jews? That is the bare minimum figure due to oslo. It would not of passed without him. He is responsible for much more death too but the figure is at least 1800. I would think about all the parents who have an empty seat at their shabbos table because this guy enabled the slaughtering of their son. I could never face him.

[Ulli]

So the tablecloth is cut already.

[Nadav]

DWI, I think the best you can do is to visit Ovadia Yosef. I mean it.

Take a plane and go to Israel. Then you should make an appointment with him.

We have lots of members here from Israel, who will accommodate you during your visit. So your expenditures will be modest.

Tell him your oppinion and then listen to his response.

You are his brother in faith. I am shure he will agree to meet with you.

Then you should report your fellow Jews here what he has said and what his reasons were to do so.

 

I know simple jews who I can learn more from than him.

I think it is not about learning from him.

It is about talking things out between two brothers.

Pheasant, how could I face a person who enabled the slaughtering of AT LEAST 1800 jews? That is the bare minimum figure due to oslo. It would not of passed without him. He is responsible for much more death too but the figure is at least 1800. I would think about all the parents who have an empty seat at their shabbos table because this guy enabled the slaughtering of their son. I could never face him.

DWI, your problem is you try to act holier than Hashem. I don't understand your zealotry.

First of all, I assume you are not even religious correct? I can't imagine a pious Jew having this kind of nerve. You don't follow the mitzvots, let alone keep Shabbos. I want to understand how someone coming from this kind of background even has the nerve to speak such lashon hara against this great sage. If you want to dissect any Rav's opinion based on Torah you must first be religious (obviously), be an educated Jew, and be completely immersed in Torah in order to retort any Rabbinical opinion. It's like a reserve soldier telling a General how to run things, or an intern telling Bill Gates how he should run his business. It's way out of your league. Save yourself the embarrassment.

This is all I'll say on the matter because your actions have made it clear you don't want this argument to end. I won't waste my time going back and fourth. Besides, Tzvi and Muman have addressed this more eloquently than I ever could, so take note of their posts.

[DownwithIslam]

DWI, I think the best you can do is to visit Ovadia Yosef. I mean it.

Take a plane and go to Israel. Then you should make an appointment with him.

We have lots of members here from Israel, who will accommodate you during your visit. So your expenditures will be modest.

Tell him your oppinion and then listen to his response.

You are his brother in faith. I am shure he will agree to meet with you.

Then you should report your fellow Jews here what he has said and what his reasons were to do so.

 

I know simple jews who I can learn more from than him.

I think it is not about learning from him.

It is about talking things out between two brothers.

Pheasant, how could I face a person who enabled the slaughtering of AT LEAST 1800 jews? That is the bare minimum figure due to oslo. It would not of passed without him. He is responsible for much more death too but the figure is at least 1800. I would think about all the parents who have an empty seat at their shabbos table because this guy enabled the slaughtering of their son. I could never face him.

DWI, your problem is you try to act holier than Hashem. I don't understand your zealotry.

First of all, I assume you are not even religious correct? I can't imagine a pious Jew having this kind of nerve. You don't follow the mitzvots, let alone keep Shabbos. I want to understand how someone coming from this kind of background even has the nerve to speak such lashon hara against this great sage. If you want to dissect any Rav's opinion based on Torah you must first be religious (obviously), be an educated Jew, and be completely immersed in Torah in order to retort any Rabbinical opinion. It's like a reserve soldier telling a General how to run things, or an intern telling Bill Gates how he should run his business. It's way out of your league. Save yourself the embarrassment.

This is all I'll say on the matter because your actions have made it clear you don't want this argument to end. I won't waste my time going back and fourth. Besides, Tzvi and Muman have addressed this more eloquently than I ever could, so take note of their posts.

It doesn't take a mathmetician to know that 2 + 2 = 4
Any rabbi who throws has Chaim ben pesach thrown out of israel on the same day that he orders a meeting with arafat certainly needs to be questioned harshly. Their are many people who wear the title "rabbi" as a way to escape scrutiny.