Cohabiting.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Guys,

I know that you will all disagree with me (except, perhaps, Tonycali, you moron), but I am more incensed by heterosexual couples who cohabit and live together in sin than queer "civil unions". The fairies are so far gone they aren't even worth getting outraged over, but heterosexuals who can marry, and deliberately choose not to out of laziness, to make a political point, to piss their parents off, unwillingness to commit, etc., are just completely giving the middle finger to G-d.

What the homo unions and heterosexual cohabitors have in common is that they are hellbent on making society call their perverse living arrangements "marriages".  A Kahanist government, whether in Israel or the U.S., should outlaw cohabiting, or at least allow cities/states/landlords to ban it.

[ihkili18]

I completely disagree with you. There are many good people who cohabit without marriage and they aren't hurting anybody. I don't see anything wrong with it at all. I don't think a kahanist government would ever even attempt to ban it simply because there would be nobody left to support them. There are tons of non religous jews in Israel who will support the kahanists simply because they want the arabs out NOW. There simply would not be enough people left in the group if the kahanists  would do that. Chaim has even stated numerous times that the kahanists would not go into peoples personal lives in Israel, they would rather try to educate them. Simply, there are so many people in Israel who will completely support the kahanists because they hate Arabs and are sick of seeing Jews killed and then the Israeli government just handing over land as a reward for killing jews. Many of these people will not subscribe to the idea of being told what to do in an area which is truly a very personal one. Now homosexuality is a completely different story. Homosexuality is the most disgusting thing in the world, and there is no more perverse act in existence. This is something which must not be rewarded with any rights whatsoever. There is nothing which has more potential to spread disease and nothing more unsanitary. I don't know if you have ever seen a homosexual act in progress but I had the unfortunate experience of doing so. I was in the locker room of a Manhattan gym and to my horror two queers were getting it on in the steam room. Believe me there is nothing more disgusting. Now homosexuality between two females is wrong as well but is not perverse to the degree of an act between two males. This is true simply because of the nature of the act itself and its ability to spread disease. Unfortunately even homosexuality will be hard to stop simply because there is no way the authorities will no when two fags decide to do their thing. These types of things are hard to ban and I don't believe any government will ever do so even the kahanists.

[Din Rodef]

Chaimfan

I totally agree with you. You are very perceptive.

My personal experience has led me to the same conclusion. I'm 32 years old, and one of the biggest problems I've encountered dating is that women are always looking to "shack up" with their new boyfriends. A lot of girls can't afford to live on their own and need a roommate. A lot of modern women seem to look at dating as a way to find a roommate. I found over and over again that girls were trying to "screw" their way into living at my house.

[sat_chit_anand]

Din Rodef, that is what some women are like, but it is up to men to work that out, not for the law to intervene on their behalf.

Change the laws and tax systems so that it is more in support of young couples who wish to marry, stay together and have children, if you must.

That is a little bit of 'affirmative action' in favour of family values. I am not sure that you should persecute co-habiting couples in religious courts.

Also, no need to persecute homosexuals. If your brother or sister 'turned' I would hope that you would try to help them 'normalize'. The answer to homosexuality is to promote spirituality, godly knowledge and family values, and to remove the unhelpful minority priviledges which leftists have given to homosexuals.

Homosexuality is not a picnic, but giving homosexuals preferential treatment, and special protection within the law is not the answer.

All this talk about civil war against leftists in Israel and persecution is a bit ridiculous.

The left thrive on intra-national hatred and discord. You have to reach out to these people and try to help them see sense.

If there is to be any clean up of society, then it should start with murderers, rapists, and paedophiles. Homosexuality is a symptom rather than a problem, IMO. Although, when the left politicize it, it becomes a problem. Do not rise to it.

[Din Rodef]

well yeah...I agree, in America, there should not be any laws against this...that's true

[Din Rodef]

Change the laws and tax systems so that it is more in support of young couples who wish to marry, stay together and have children, if you must.

This is a good point too

In America, one of the reasons driving cohabitation is actually economic.

But that brings in a whole 'nother set of issues.

[dawntreader]

I've got to weigh in and say I agree with Sat_chit_Anand on this issue.

I don't think co-habiting is worse than homosexuality at all. While I believe that marriage is better, there has always been the argument of..."What constitutes a marriage?"

If there were no Rabbi, no Priest, Priestess, Justice of the Peace, Magistrate....whatever...to marry you...and you lived in the sticks or whatever...or if you were marooned on an island with just the person you love...would G-d see fit to condemn you because you decided to agree with one another that you are married?

What about Adam and Eve? Who married them? Was it G-d? Or did G-d just give Eve to Adam and say, "Here ya go Adam! Here's a woman I made especially for you!"

Nope. Can't agree that cohabiting is worse than homosexuality.

Also...what about polygamy? Wouldn't you say that being married to more than one woman is better than homosexuality? It's probably better than "Shacking up" as well. There are tons of Biblical references to godly men who had more than one wife. King David did for sure.

If countries have laws allowing homosexuality, shouldn't other forms of "co-habiting" or "Marriage" also be allowed? (Ones that are not necessarily perverse?)

Some say that this would help prevent "serial monogamy." Marry, divorce, marry someone new, divorce, marry again.

[Fruit of thy loins]

Wow.  If gentiles are to be condemned for cohabitation then not many gentiles are going to be in the World to Come.  I'd say 95% of people under 30 today have cohabited at some point.  It is self-defeating to hold gentiles up to high standards of sexual morality anyway. 

[Lisa]

I am totally against cohabiting.  It's just a way for a man to have the milk for free without buying the entire cow.  And the women ultimately end up suffering for it.  After all, why would a man go through the trouble of making a commitment before G-d and all his family when he already has many of the same benefits of marriage already? 

And it's true that women contribute to this problem by agreeing to move in with their boyfriends.  I've heard stories about men and women living together for years, where the man never even wanted to marry the woman.  She was just nice to "have around." 

I used to know a girl who was rather promiscous.  On the singles weekend where I met her, she found  a guy she liked and put out for him right there and then.  And EVERY weekend after that, for the next two years, she would trek over to Delaware from Westchester just to sleep with the guy.  Needless to say the guy STILL did not propose to her after all that time.  I encourage her to find someone else.  And do you know what the first guy finally said to her???  He said "But I wasn't sure I even liked you that much." 
In other words, he liked her enough to have sex with her every weekend for two years, but not to marry her. 

Then I've heard stories about men and women living together for years, when all of the sudded the man meets someone else through work or a vacation and marries her right away. 

So to answer Chaimfan's question, I think, as a straight woman that cohabiting is much much worse.  The reason is because the choices that some women make affect the options available to other women.  Cohabiting is an example.  In other words, it becomes much harder for old fashioned, modest, women who want to wait until marriage to be intimate, when men can easily get the sex and companionship without having to marry. 

[Din Rodef]

Lisa is absolutely correct...from a woman's perspective...

....if the majority of women are sluts then how does a nice girl compete? When men are expecting sex and cohabitation without marriage, then how does a nice girl demand commitment when there are many other girls that don't make such demands.

For nice girls....it's a "no win" situation. The entire culture has collapsed.

[Allen-T]

The Bible considers fornication a sin, but homosexuality is both a sin and an abomination because it's against nature. So homosexuality is worse. I consider most unmarried couples who live together, but are basically decent people as people blind to the truth. I don't feel hatred for them and quite often the more decent people I meet are living this way. I feel hate for "christians" I meet that think I am a racist because I want to close our borders, deport illegals and ship most blacks to Africa. I hate married affirmative action trash that I have had to deal with at my job who have gone out of their way to screw me. People who just screw anyone they meet are low lifes. But alot of decent people either cohabitate or have boyfriends/girlfriends they monogomously sleep with. It's wrong, but I won't turn my nose up at them because there are alot of married [deleted].         

[Fruit of thy loins]

The guy in Lisa's tale must have been an alpha male.  I myself would travel a distance of several hundred miles every weekend to pay obeisance to a nice woman over a period of two years in exchange for marriage at the end of those two years.  This just shows that it's a case of sexual inequality and sexual selection.  Some men get women in dozens at their feet while some men have to sell both their kidneys to get one half-way decent woman to look at them.  I think it is a biological rather than a cultural thing.  Women are programmed to want to have healthy offspring.  Generally speaking the 'rougher' the guy the more virile he is and thus the healthier his children will be.

Women want such men to sow their oats in their fields but it is not a question of free will.  It is biological.

[Sarah]

Co-habiting and promiscuity leads to the break down of society. It causes illegitimate babies to be born, people to be hurt and an enomous sense of insecurity. These are the main disadvantages. However Homosexuality is preversely out of natural context and completely wrong. Co-habiting is a secretive, tolerated and covered sinful act. We don't see it as bad but i'm sure on religious grounds it is absolutely wrong.

[sat_chit_anand]

If one wishes to live life the beautiful way one should try to put G-d first in any relationship one is having. Even with strangers, one should try to put G-d first.

So it not surprising that we have the institution of marriage to protect us, because lust can draw us away from love and God.

If you can co-habit and still sincerely try to put G-d first without the official document, then fine. You might be doing a lot better than many married couples.

I dislike the idea of the marriage being a mere business contract, it should be a contract which commits the couple religiously. That really should be the most important thing.

[Lisa]

I dislike the idea of the marriage being a mere business contract, it should be a contract which commits the couple religiously. That really should be the most important thing.

I don't see it that way.  It's about a man and woman, vowing before G-d and their loved ones to build a home and family together.  It's not just about a man providing a roof over a woman's head in exchange for sex.  In Judaism, the man is obligated to also provide sexually for the wife.  If not, I believe that is grounds for divorce. 

[Dr. Dan]

1. Homosexuality is an obomination. Homosexuals proud to be that way are evil doers. Those that do what they do in the privacy of their homes and only confide in close friends and family members of there way should be offered help and deserve some compassion. What he might be doing in in the privacy of his home is wrong, but according to Torah, we cannot enter his home unless he invited us in.

2. Cohabitation between heterosexuals before marraige is not good either and can lead to problems later on.  But something like that can be fixed wtih the proper education and changing the media and tv shows. Cohabitation before marraige should not be encouraged.

3. I disagree with really strict shomer negia such as not shaking hands, not listening to women sing etc etc..but to each their own. I'll do it my way..you do it your way..hopefully in the end everyone ends up happily married with lots of good healthy successful children who will end up doing the right moral thing in their lives and to teach their children the the right things.

[Lisa]

The guy in Lisa's tale must have been an alpha male.

Hate to break it to you Fruit, but the guy was a geeky nebish.  And my friend (who I haven't spoken to in years) was nothing special in the looks department either. 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I completely disagree with you. There are many good people who cohabit without marriage and they aren't hurting anybody. I don't see anything wrong with it at all.

Down, you are completely wrong. ALL of these arguments are used by the queers in defense of their sick, twisted abomination. You are dead, dead, dead wrong and I know nobody will agree with you.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I am totally against cohabiting.  It's just a way for a man to have the milk for free without buying the entire cow.  And the women ultimately end up suffering for it.  After all, why would a man go through the trouble of making a commitment before G-d and all his family when he already has many of the same benefits of marriage already? 

So to answer Chaimfan's question, I think, as a straight woman that cohabiting is much much worse.  The reason is because the choices that some women make affect the options available to other women.  Cohabiting is an example.  In other words, it becomes much harder for old fashioned, modest, women who want to wait until marriage to be intimate, when men can easily get the sex and companionship without having to marry. 

Lisa, you have among the most sense of anyone here. I agree with your reasoning and background here fully and I wish more people could see the light of it. Everything you said is true (i.e. women getting used as sex playthings by men who do not want to commit), but don't also forget the number one reason why it's wrong--because God says so and it's an abominable lifestyle that mocks and ridicules Biblical marriage.

[Lisa]

Lisa, you have among the most sense of anyone here.

Why thank you, Chaimfan.  That's quite a compliment coming from you.

[RationalThought110]

When did Cohabitating begin to become common?

Aaron Spelling (who I think abandoned Judaism) didn't help with his "Melrose Place" sitcom that began in the early 1990's. 

[RationalThought110]

First, the issue of fag unions needs to be handled.  Any kind of policy that advocates or approves of homosexual behavior is unacceptable.  Homosexuals can't be encouraged with "political correctness" to influence others to engage in homosexual behavior.  The group "Human Rights Campaign" is evil and needs to be defeated.   


There should be some kind of rule that if a couple co-habitates, they are forbidden from marrying. 

[Sarah]

When did Cohabitating begin to become common?

Aaron Spelling (who I think abandoned Judaism) didn't help with his "Melrose Place" sitcom that began in the early 1990's. 

Probably in the 60's/70's, a few years after contraception was introduced. Everything turned upside down.

[Fruit of thy loins]

The guy in Lisa's tale must have been an alpha male.

Hate to break it to you Fruit, but the guy was a geeky nebish.  And my friend (who I haven't spoken to in years) was nothing special in the looks department either. 

Lisa, I think you are one of the few people who come and read and try to understand what other people say.  Some, like me, come mostly just to have their say.  I do love to have my say and I am so often wrong.  BUt the need to explain is a sublime manifestation of the need to control; and white men have a need to control as a sublime response to their inherent insecurity.  Only the black man has total confidence and hypnotic power over the white woman.  It may even be that Adam was black and Eve white, in a spiritual sense.

[Mishmaat]

Very simple answer Chaimfan. Cohabiting is wrong. It leads to temptation. It may lead to fornication. It's not as bad as homosexuality, but it is still bad. The ideal situation is to wait until you're married.