General Category > Ask Posters Show Threads
Ask me about arabs.
Hyades:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on August 04, 2009, 03:46:20 PM ---
--- Quote from: Hyades on August 04, 2009, 03:39:13 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on August 04, 2009, 02:40:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Hyades on August 04, 2009, 11:05:41 AM ---
--- Quote from: YimachShemotoIslam on August 02, 2009, 10:30:02 AM ---What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?
--- End quote ---
I've been living in Sao Paulo for 2 years. And I can tell you Maronites are very anti-Israeli! Sao Paulo has the biggest Maronite community outside the Middle East and about 4 million people there are of Arab descent. They are not anti-Semitic at all, but very anti-Israel!
--- End quote ---
Being anti Israel is inclusive in being anti Jewish.
--- End quote ---
No, it is not. Many people see their national Jewish communities as part of their population and Israel as another country with another government. For many people there is a huge difference between being Jewish and being Israeli citizen!
And brazilians are quite pro-Zionist also and very pro-Israel, except the millions of Arabs (who themselves are not very beloved in Brazil as they have a bad reputation). But these Arabs see Brazilian Jews as Brazilians and thus as a compatriot, while Israelis for them are Jews living in a country where they don't belong, which they have "stolen". And I think this is the same with many Christian Arabs. They have nothing against Jews as long as they live outside Israel. While Muslims think Jews have NO place in this entire world and have to be wiped out. I find both views very irritating and they make me angry! >:(
--- End quote ---
If someone tries to deny or severe the link between the Jewish reliigon and the Jewish nationality he is a Jew hater. Jews who identify themselves as, say, A German of the religion of Moses, are self hating Jews.
--- End quote ---
Then I am self-hating. Because I consider myself German. My ancestors are from here since centuries, I was born here, I have my friends and family here, I had my entire youth and almost the whole life here in Germany and my first language is German. No one ever considered me as someone alien or as "not part of German society". Yes, I am German and I am Jewish, I have distant but anyway strong roots to the Holy Land and I defend it wherever I can.
However I do never deny my deep feelings for Israel and an intense connection to the Holy Land. But how can I say I am Israeli if I have no relatives there, if I have only spent one consecutive year and several months in Israel? If I made aliyah to Israel I would not be considered an Israeli by the native Sabre but only be considered a Jewish immigrant, an alien!
And no, dividing Jews from a certain nation from Israelis is natural for someone who is Christian. How can you expect a Christian to understand the meaning of Israel for Jews who aren't born and sometimes haven't even been to Israel? I think religion and nationality shouldn't be mixed up.
Zelhar:
--- Quote from: Hyades on August 05, 2009, 12:15:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on August 04, 2009, 03:46:20 PM ---
--- Quote from: Hyades on August 04, 2009, 03:39:13 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on August 04, 2009, 02:40:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Hyades on August 04, 2009, 11:05:41 AM ---
--- Quote from: YimachShemotoIslam on August 02, 2009, 10:30:02 AM ---What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?
--- End quote ---
I've been living in Sao Paulo for 2 years. And I can tell you Maronites are very anti-Israeli! Sao Paulo has the biggest Maronite community outside the Middle East and about 4 million people there are of Arab descent. They are not anti-Semitic at all, but very anti-Israel!
--- End quote ---
Being anti Israel is inclusive in being anti Jewish.
--- End quote ---
No, it is not. Many people see their national Jewish communities as part of their population and Israel as another country with another government. For many people there is a huge difference between being Jewish and being Israeli citizen!
And brazilians are quite pro-Zionist also and very pro-Israel, except the millions of Arabs (who themselves are not very beloved in Brazil as they have a bad reputation). But these Arabs see Brazilian Jews as Brazilians and thus as a compatriot, while Israelis for them are Jews living in a country where they don't belong, which they have "stolen". And I think this is the same with many Christian Arabs. They have nothing against Jews as long as they live outside Israel. While Muslims think Jews have NO place in this entire world and have to be wiped out. I find both views very irritating and they make me angry! >:(
--- End quote ---
If someone tries to deny or severe the link between the Jewish reliigon and the Jewish nationality he is a Jew hater. Jews who identify themselves as, say, A German of the religion of Moses, are self hating Jews.
--- End quote ---
Then I am self-hating. Because I consider myself German. My ancestors are from here since centuries, I was born here, I have my friends and family here, I had my entire youth and almost the whole life here in Germany and my first language is German. No one ever considered me as someone alien or as "not part of German society". Yes, I am German and I am Jewish, I have distant but anyway strong roots to the Holy Land and I defend it wherever I can.
--- End quote ---
A Jew is a Jew no matter where he lives, no matter what language he speaks. If being German is more or as important to you than being a Jew, then you are indeed a self hating assimilating Jew. I am not an Israeli Jew, I just a Jew. How ironic is what you say of how you were never considered an alien to society, in Germany of all place.
--- Quote ---However I do never deny my deep feelings for Israel and an intense connection to the Holy Land. But how can I say I am Israeli if I have no relatives there, if I have only spent one consecutive year and several months in Israel? If I made aliyah to Israel I would not be considered an Israeli by the native Sabre but only be considered a Jewish immigrant, an alien!
--- End quote ---
There are also Israelis who think of themselves as Israeli national first, then a Jew by religious association. They are also self hating Jews. There is no such identity as Israeli. It is just an adjective indicating a place. It doesn't matter where you live, your first priority and first loyalty should go to your own people. If you make Aliyah you can do very well since you already speak Hebrew. You will in most cases be treated very gracefully by Israelis, aliyah is still regarded very highly by most Israelis. But regardless of where you live, you are a Jew. A Jew, not just Jewish man, you are a Jew.
--- Quote ---And no, dividing Jews from a certain nation from Israelis is natural for someone who is Christian. How can you expect a Christian to understand the meaning of Israel for Jews who aren't born and sometimes haven't even been to Israel? I think religion and nationality shouldn't be mixed up.
--- End quote ---
I expect a Jew to know better. Are you a Christian ? Why do you try to think like a Christian if you are a Jew ? And aside from that, as it is evident from Christians I meet on this forum, they get, they understand perfectly who is the rightful people to live in Israel. I suppose anyone who reads the bible should understand this easily.
Finally, I want to make clear, I am not preaching Jewish pride or superiority, not Israeli patriotism or anything like that. I am just stating the facts. Judaism is more than a religion, its a complete identity.
Zelhar:
I forgot to mention that nationality (לאום) is not an important concept to the Jews. Look how we are called in the bible: עם ישראל The people of Israel. Nationality is a modern concept may be even one that is alien to Judaism.
Ulli:
Interesting discussion.
Hyades, you will discover one day the fact, that nationalities are only illusions. I did and after this I think more clear.
Hyades:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on August 05, 2009, 12:56:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Hyades on August 05, 2009, 12:15:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on August 04, 2009, 03:46:20 PM ---
--- Quote from: Hyades on August 04, 2009, 03:39:13 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on August 04, 2009, 02:40:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Hyades on August 04, 2009, 11:05:41 AM ---
--- Quote from: YimachShemotoIslam on August 02, 2009, 10:30:02 AM ---What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?
--- End quote ---
I've been living in Sao Paulo for 2 years. And I can tell you Maronites are very anti-Israeli! Sao Paulo has the biggest Maronite community outside the Middle East and about 4 million people there are of Arab descent. They are not anti-Semitic at all, but very anti-Israel!
--- End quote ---
Being anti Israel is inclusive in being anti Jewish.
--- End quote ---
No, it is not. Many people see their national Jewish communities as part of their population and Israel as another country with another government. For many people there is a huge difference between being Jewish and being Israeli citizen!
And brazilians are quite pro-Zionist also and very pro-Israel, except the millions of Arabs (who themselves are not very beloved in Brazil as they have a bad reputation). But these Arabs see Brazilian Jews as Brazilians and thus as a compatriot, while Israelis for them are Jews living in a country where they don't belong, which they have "stolen". And I think this is the same with many Christian Arabs. They have nothing against Jews as long as they live outside Israel. While Muslims think Jews have NO place in this entire world and have to be wiped out. I find both views very irritating and they make me angry! >:(
--- End quote ---
If someone tries to deny or severe the link between the Jewish reliigon and the Jewish nationality he is a Jew hater. Jews who identify themselves as, say, A German of the religion of Moses, are self hating Jews.
--- End quote ---
Then I am self-hating. Because I consider myself German. My ancestors are from here since centuries, I was born here, I have my friends and family here, I had my entire youth and almost the whole life here in Germany and my first language is German. No one ever considered me as someone alien or as "not part of German society". Yes, I am German and I am Jewish, I have distant but anyway strong roots to the Holy Land and I defend it wherever I can.
--- End quote ---
A Jew is a Jew no matter where he lives, no matter what language he speaks. If being German is more or as important to you than being a Jew, then you are indeed a self hating assimilating Jew. I am not an Israeli Jew, I just a Jew. How ironic is what you say of how you were never considered an alien to society, in Germany of all place.
--- Quote ---However I do never deny my deep feelings for Israel and an intense connection to the Holy Land. But how can I say I am Israeli if I have no relatives there, if I have only spent one consecutive year and several months in Israel? If I made aliyah to Israel I would not be considered an Israeli by the native Sabre but only be considered a Jewish immigrant, an alien!
--- End quote ---
There are also Israelis who think of themselves as Israeli national first, then a Jew by religious association. They are also self hating Jews. There is no such identity as Israeli. It is just an adjective indicating a place. It doesn't matter where you live, your first priority and first loyalty should go to your own people. If you make Aliyah you can do very well since you already speak Hebrew. You will in most cases be treated very gracefully by Israelis, aliyah is still regarded very highly by most Israelis. But regardless of where you live, you are a Jew. A Jew, not just Jewish man, you are a Jew.
--- Quote ---And no, dividing Jews from a certain nation from Israelis is natural for someone who is Christian. How can you expect a Christian to understand the meaning of Israel for Jews who aren't born and sometimes haven't even been to Israel? I think religion and nationality shouldn't be mixed up.
--- End quote ---
I expect a Jew to know better. Are you a Christian ? Why do you try to think like a Christian if you are a Jew ? And aside from that, as it is evident from Christians I meet on this forum, they get, they understand perfectly who is the rightful people to live in Israel. I suppose anyone who reads the bible should understand this easily.
Finally, I want to make clear, I am not preaching Jewish pride or superiority, not Israeli patriotism or anything like that. I am just stating the facts. Judaism is more than a religion, its a complete identity.
--- End quote ---
Oh my goodness! All I said is that other countries have other concepts of thinking. Why do you think Brazilians are Jew-haters or Israel-haters only because the see Brazilian Jews as Brazilians and Israelis as Israelis? The fact is that Jews are all united by their religion no matter which nationality they have. I read the same words in the Torah as a Jew in Israel, a Jew in the US and a Jew in Australia, we have the same rites, the same prayers and and similar customs. Anyway I cannot see the point where I am self-hating just for considering myself German more than Israeli. If I said I was more German than Jewish - then you would be right. But where did I say that?
There are surely things that distinguishes me from the majority like trying to eat kosher as far as possible, I go to a synagogue instead of a church and I have Hebrew roots! Nevertheless I am also a son of this country and my nationality shows me as a German citizen. This doesn't mean anything, since a nationality is limited to frontiers, religion not!
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version