Idiotic N.Y Women hold Slutwalk

[muman613]

I totally agree Dr. Dan. Execute or castrate the rapists.  

Seriously, let's get something straight here.  Dressing modestly (women AND men) is a very good thing.  It means you have respect for yourself, and that you want people to see you for who you are, rather than just a sum of body parts.  There's also the benefit of not giving these sickos any ideas.  So for that reason, I'm against these "slut walks."  

However, I do have a problem when people say a woman is "asking for it" by dressing immodestly.  In a way, it sounds like something a Muslim man would say.  Remember that Imam in Australia who said immodestly dressed women bring rape on themselves?  He compared them to uncovered meat swarming with flies.

There's a big difference between Western first world societies and Muslim/Third World dumps.  In the latter, there are almost no limits on male sexual behavior.  A man can pretty much drop his pants and get right down to business whenever the urge takes him, without repercussions, regardless of whether or not the female is willing.  These are always the most backwards barbaric societies.  

In America and the West, the opposite is (fortunately) true.  

Now some of you might say "Well, men are visual creatures," which is true.  But the difference between us and those Third World sewers is that we have some limits on male sexual behavior.

I disagree and I don't think it has anything to do with muslims or men... Women who want to expose their bodies are shameless and although they are not 'asking for it' they are engaging in a behavior which gives the appearance that they are asking for it. When a woman dresses as a prostitute it means that they want to have sex for money, that they are promiscuous. Thus I harbor a feeling toward a woman who dresses as a slut, that she is a slut, and that she is easy, and that she is immoral. Maybe I am making assumptions but in most cases I believe that I am correct to judge according to this measure.

Lisa, are you aware of the command 'Do not place a stumbling block before the blind'? It can be understood not to put temptation before a fellow. For instance if you know a person has a proclivity to steal small items like change, then it is best not to leave change around the house when he/she comes over, lest they be tempted to transgress the command not to steal. Similarly if a woman knows that men are stimulated by the way she dresses then she should be aware that she may lead a man to transgress, and if she willfully does this it is a double sin. While you mention that there are 'limits on male sexual behavior' you should also mention that women should be aware of what she can do with her body. Modesty is always the best route for men and women...


See : http://www.breslev.co.il/articles/judaism/concepts_in_judaism/you_shall_be_holy.aspx?id=8333&language=english

You Will Be Holy!
by Tzvi Fishman


Before continuing on with a halachic look at Shmirat HaBrit, in the light of these mystical insights, we can understand the great importance of the laws of modesty. The women of Israel have the  responsibility to dress in a modest fashion, so as not to cause Jewish men to be drawn into sexual fantasy and sin. Their attire should cover the body according to Jewish Law. For example, sleeves should extend lower than the elbow. Skirts should extend below the knees. Clothes should not be so tight-fitting that they expose the outline of the body in a suggestive fashion. Besides violating the laws of modesty, women who dress in a purposely  enticing fashion transgress the prohibition of putting a stumbling block in front of a blind man, in that they lead others to sin.
 
The Torah warns us that Israel’s success and security is dependent on guarding our holiness, specifically in the area of sexual purity.
 
 “When thou goest out to encamp against thy enemies, then keep thee from every evil thing. If there be among you any man that is not clean by reason of an impure emission of semen at night, then he shall go abroad outside of the camp, he shall not come within the camp.” (Devarim, 23:10-11)
 
“For the L-rd thy G-d walks in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thy enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy, that He see no unclean thing in thee and turn away from thee.” (Devarim, 23:15)
 
This demand for sexual purity applies not only to the soldiers of Israel, but also to community life in general. The Torah commands us, “Kedoshim t’heyu!” “You shall be holy, for I the L-rd your G-d am holy.” (Vayikra, 19:2)
 
To ensure the day-to-day holiness of the Jewish People, the Torah and its Sages set forth guidelines to prevent a man from succumbing to the temptations that can easily cause him to err.
 
For example, Jewish Law demands that a man exert special care to distance himself from interaction with women. (Shulchan Oruch, Even HaEzer, 21:1) This warning is not because women are evil, G-d forbid. Rather, it comes to guard a man from falling into transgression.
 

[Dr. Dan]

So muman what are you disagreeing about?

These women have free will. The better  choice is to be modest.
Men have free will not to rape.  If they go unpunished or undeterred, they will choose rape and will attack a slut or a well dressed woman. 

If i could ever get my hands on a beast rapist especially about to do the act, i would act mercilessly on him.

[Rubystars]

Lisa I don't think they're asking for it either, but they are mistaken if they think they have the power to stop an evil man from acting on evil impulses if she is in a situation in which she could be taken advantage of. (Of course, fighting back is always the best option if the situation occurs but avoiding the situation if possible is the best course of action rather than putting yourself into greater danger to begin with). I think with that in mind she needs to keep her safety in mind in all kinds of choices she makes, not just in clothing but in other aspects, like where she goes, etc.

[Lisa]

Muman, I don't believe in women or men dressing immodestly.  Those girls in that slut-march are idiots.  But I think it's a stretch to say a woman who dresses that way is immoral.  

We live in crazy times.  Do you have sisters?  I think it's much more complicated than you think.   Aside from Orthodox Jews, and very observant Christians there is a tremendous amount of peer pressure for girls to look a certain way, and for them to be sexually active.  These days, if a women in her 20's still happens to still be a virgin, she is treated like a freak of nature by other women, and doctors too.  Any man who would have been otherwise interested in her would usually dump her immediately.  

Furthermore, I know all about not placing stumbling blocks before the blind.  Women who seduce and sleep with married men do just that.  So for them, I have no sympathy whatsoever.  

[Dr. Dan]

No woman is ever asking for it unless she us walking alone un the wrong place at the wrong time.  Slutware or not.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I disagree and I don't think it has anything to do with muslims or men... Women who want to expose their bodies are shameless and although they are not 'asking for it' they are engaging in a behavior which gives the appearance that they are asking for it. When a woman dresses as a prostitute it means that they want to have sex for money, that they are promiscuous. Thus I harbor a feeling toward a woman who dresses as a slut, that she is a slut, and that she is easy, and that she is immoral. Maybe I am making assumptions but in most cases I believe that I am correct to judge according to this measure.

Lisa, are you aware of the command 'Do not place a stumbling block before the blind'? It can be understood not to put temptation before a fellow. For instance if you know a person has a proclivity to steal small items like change, then it is best not to leave change around the house when he/she comes over, lest they be tempted to transgress the command not to steal. Similarly if a woman knows that men are stimulated by the way she dresses then she should be aware that she may lead a man to transgress, and if she willfully does this it is a double sin. While you mention that there are 'limits on male sexual behavior' you should also mention that women should be aware of what she can do with her body. Modesty is always the best route for men and women...

See : http://www.breslev.co.il/articles/judaism/concepts_in_judaism/you_shall_be_holy.aspx?id=8333&language=english

Yes, yes, a woman asks for it if she gets raped. But it's a sin to criticize evil women like Megan Fox and Miley Cyrus because... you say so.

Somehow, I do doubt that Breslev rabbis believe that a woman who gets raped has it coming.

[muman613]

Yes, yes, a woman asks for it if she gets raped. But it's a sin to criticize evil women like Megan Fox and Miley Cyrus because... you say so.

Somehow, I do doubt that Breslev rabbis believe that a woman who gets raped has it coming.

Here you go again with reading into what I have said without even trying to understand.

First, I do not go around cursing every woman who dresses or acts immodestly. That is the problem I had with you when you incessantly posted about every immodest celebrity. It is something which is a fact of life but it is not warranted to curse them with Y'sv as you did. It is one thing to criticize, another to bring a major Jewish curse...

Second, I have never said or even suggested that a woman who dresses immodestly 'has it coming' as you state. My whole point in this thread is to stress that modesty is the best thing for women. All to often I hear women complain that they are treated as sex objects. On the other hand when they dress like prostitutes can they really blame the men?

[Rubystars]

No woman is ever asking for it unless she us walking alone un the wrong place at the wrong time.  Slutware or not.

Even in that situation Dr. Dan I don't think she's asking for it. One example I can think of was a story I read a few years ago.

This woman was a young, idealistic white girl who had been fed a bunch of liberal hogwash. Apparently she'd gone to New Orleans to help campaign for Obama there. She genuinely believed that everyone was the same, the only difference between different races was skin color. She rode her bike through a black neighborhood, feeling completely safe, believing in the goodness of human beings no matter their race.

She was taken off the bike and raped and murdered.

I don't think she was asking for this, and I really don't think she deserved it either.

She was stupid, but she'd been poisoned by liberal brainwashing.

[muman613]

I never suggested that any woman deserves to be raped. I said that women who dress like sluts usually are sluts and my opinion of them is that they have no morality. A person IS JUDGED by the way they look and the way they dress. If a woman does not believe that then she is living in a fantasy world. There is no good reason for a woman to dress as a prostitute. Prostitution leads to many broken lives...

Regarding what should be done to the rapist... I agree with most of the other posters that they should be dealt with such that they can never harm another woman again.

[Dr. Dan]

Even in that situation Dr. Dan I don't think she's asking for it. One example I can think of was a story I read a few years ago.

This woman was a young, idealistic white girl who had been fed a bunch of liberal hogwash. Apparently she'd gone to New Orleans to help campaign for Obama there. She genuinely believed that everyone was the same, the only difference between different races was skin color. She rode her bike through a black neighborhood, feeling completely safe, believing in the goodness of human beings no matter their race.

She was taken off the bike and raped and murdered.

I don't think she was asking for this, and I really don't think she deserved it either.

She was stupid, but she'd been poisoned by liberal brainwashing.

No one is asking for it, but there are actions one  should take to not be in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Nobody deserves what she had.

[USAReturn2GodNow1776]

Well, I've heard that most rapists rape because they hate women not because of uncontrollable physical attraction and urges.  So even if you castrated them, the problem underlying the aggression would still be there, and they would just find other ways of harming women.  So I think we should just kill them.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Muman, I don't believe in women or men dressing immodestly.  Those girls in that slut-march are idiots.  But I think it's a stretch to say a woman who dresses that way is immoral.  

We live in crazy times.  Do you have sisters?  I think it's much more complicated than you think.   Aside from Orthodox Jews, and very observant Christians there is a tremendous amount of peer pressure for girls to look a certain way, and for them to be sexually active.  These days, if a women in her 20's still happens to still be a virgin, she is treated like a freak of nature by other women, and doctors too.  Any man who would have been otherwise interested in her would usually dump her immediately.  

Furthermore, I know all about not placing stumbling blocks before the blind.  Women who seduce and sleep with married men do just that.  So for them, I have no sympathy whatsoever.  

Has anyone noticed the trend at work these days for women to wear shirts that show their entire cleavage to every single human being who looks at them.  It's like there aren't any blouses for sale that dont show women's breasts.  I encounter at every aspect of the work food chain from the secretaries to administrators to physicians.  Women that work with teenage boys dress this way.  What the hell is going on in their heads when they leave the house in the morning

[Rubystars]

JTFE I noticed a while back I was actually having trouble finding modest tops. I had to order them off of Amazon or shop in the men's section and get regular plain colored tee shirts to not get revealing clothing. Everything in my size in the women's section I was shopping for had a v neck, and not a flattering, shallow v neck but a v neck that dipped way down into the cleavage area. I personally didn't like this, it's not my style.

[Lisa]

One time, I had this nice long black evening gown with long sleeves and a v-neck, that was not deep at all.  I liked it because it was modest (as far as evening gowns go) and because it was comfortable.  So when I was moving at one point, my mother saw it.  She scolded me for ten minutes, insisting it was something a grandmother would wear and told me to get rid of it. 

[JTFenthusiast2]

JTFE I noticed a while back I was actually having trouble finding modest tops. I had to order them off of Amazon or shop in the men's section and get regular plain colored tee shirts to not get revealing clothing. Everything in my size in the women's section I was shopping for had a v neck, and not a flattering, shallow v neck but a v neck that dipped way down into the cleavage area. I personally didn't like this, it's not my style.

I mean it's really incredible.  Whenever I ride the train if I am standing, I am looking into a sea of cleavages.  I can't imagine that this doesn't trigger a lot of sexually aggressive thoughts in many or most of the male subway patrons.  The thing is that I dont think women who dress like this should be offended if they catch men taking a peak.  What's worse is that HS students are dressed this way.  What are their parents thinking as they usher them off to school (probably many of them don't).  I believe you Ruby Stars, I really do because I see more and more women I know dressed like this and it has to be what the companies are putting out there for women to put out there.

[JTFenthusiast2]

One time, I had this nice long black evening gown with long sleeves and a v-neck, that was not deep at all.  I liked it because it was modest (as far as evening gowns go) and because it was comfortable.  So when I was moving at one point, my mother saw it.  She scolded me for ten minutes, insisting it was something a grandmother would wear and told me to get rid of it. 

Lisa,

But you ride the trains here, you know what I mean I think.  No one should be telling women what to wear, but it doesn't make sense to say, 'lookie here,' with the way one dresses...and then to turn around and be annoyed when people do 

[Rubystars]

One time, I had this nice long black evening gown with long sleeves and a v-neck, that was not deep at all.  I liked it because it was modest (as far as evening gowns go) and because it was comfortable.  So when I was moving at one point, my mother saw it.  She scolded me for ten minutes, insisting it was something a grandmother would wear and told me to get rid of it. 

You could have made her really angry if you'd said "Oh well do you want to wear it then?"  

[Rubystars]

I mean it's really incredible.  Whenever I ride the train if I am standing, I am looking into a sea of cleavages.  I can't imagine that this doesn't trigger a lot of sexually aggressive thoughts in many or most of the male subway patrons.  The thing is that I dont think women who dress like this should be offended if they catch men taking a peak.  What's worse is that HS students are dressed this way.  What are their parents thinking as they usher them off to school (probably many of them don't).  I believe you Ruby Stars, I really do because I see more and more women I know dressed like this and it has to be what the companies are putting out there for women to put out there.

It's better for me to shop at this time of year or the winter because I can usually find what I feel are better clothing options.

[Lisa]

You could have made her really angry if you'd said "Oh well do you want to wear it then?"  

My mother weighs about 87 pounds.  That dress would have been swimming on her.

[JTFenthusiast2]

It's better for me to shop at this time of year or the winter because I can usually find what I feel are better clothing options.

That's really unfortunate because women who want to dress in a way that's shows a little less skin are forced to buy at off times or seasons.   I guess this could be good for prices, but why is it that manufacturers are putting out only inappropriate articles of clothing for the majority of life's events, namely work

[Rubystars]

That's really unfortunate because women who want to dress in a way that's shows a little less skin are forced to buy at off times or seasons.   I guess this could be good for prices, but why is it that manufacturers are putting out only inappropriate articles of clothing for the majority of life's events, namely work

I don't know why the manufacturers are doing this. I can only imagine it's consumer demand. Maybe a lot of women want to look like celebrities that dress that way (but those celebs have well-paid body guards, the average woman doesn't).

I think it's the lack of modest clothing which has led to the popularity of products such as seen-on-tv clip on camisoles like Cami secret. It can turn one of those tops that are easier to find into something more acceptable.

[JTFenthusiast2]

I don't know why the manufacturers are doing this. I can only imagine it's consumer demand. Maybe a lot of women want to look like celebrities that dress that way (but those celebs have well-paid body guards, the average woman doesn't).

I think it's the lack of modest clothing which has led to the popularity of products such as seen-on-tv clip on camisoles like Cami secret. It can turn one of those tops that are easier to find into something more acceptable.

On a same note, if people start calling me "pimp" for short, the same way you would call someone, "mac or Joey,"  I'llhaveto change my name.  Changing your screen name can introduce some humor to the forum though.  I like taking odd bits and pieces of things I hear on the subway and making them my name. 

[Rubystars]

My mother weighs about 87 pounds.  That dress would have been swimming on her.

Wow she got the lucky genes either that or she hardly eats anything. I hope she's not severely underweight.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Wow she got the lucky genes either that or she hardly eats anything. I hope she's not severely underweight.

Unless she is very short, that's very very thin.  I think even if you are 4'10, you should be over 90 lbs

[Rubystars]

Unless she is very short, that's very very thin.  I think even if you are 4'10, you should be over 90 lbs

I'm aiming for 130 as my goal and I'm 5'5".