Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Asking advice of Tzaddik (* What NOT to do)
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 24, 2012, 09:58:51 PM ---I disagree with Rambam and this rabbi on several topics.
The revealed miracle is a change in the natural laws,
--- End quote ---
Be aware that the nature of miracles is a huge machloketh among the rishonim. You are not going to simply disprove one side of that argument based on what you feel "has to be" (and of course quoting from the other point of view in that discussion). I can easily cite Rambam's and ibn ezra's statements as "proof" that you are wrong. See how that doesn't make sense to do that?
Tag-MehirTzedek:
The Rambam did reject a book today referred to as "Kabbalah" if I'm not mistaken its "Pardes Rimonim". It has similar concepts and things as the zohar as well. About the Zohar, the Rambam did not reject it, because it wasn't written yett.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on October 28, 2012, 06:40:46 PM ---Be aware that the nature of miracles is a huge machloketh among the rishonim. You are not going to simply disprove one side of that argument based on what you feel "has to be" (and of course quoting from the other point of view in that discussion). I can easily cite Rambam's and ibn ezra's statements as "proof" that you are wrong. See how that doesn't make sense to do that?
--- End quote ---
KWRBT,
You constantly seem to be trying to prove something here. I have brought both sides of the argument, and you are trying to 'prove me wrong'? This is the kind of behavior that I do not expect from a Jew. I have been completely honest with you, I have given you credit when you make good points, and I continue to treat you as an ally. But you seem to see me as a threat to your self esteem, as everything I say is a point for you to disprove.
You may get enjoyment out of this little game, but I think it is foolish.
I have brought Rambam when Rambam expresses the idea I am trying to convey, but unlike you and Tag, I don't consider Rambam to be the ONLY authority on Jewish law or thought. He is greatly respected, and as I point out, Chabad studies Rambam just like most other religious Jews. But one should really learn more than just Rambam.
You try to say that I am stating something wrong, yet you do not clearly say what it is you think is wrong with what I say. My defense of Jews who may be misunderstood is something for you to disrespect me for? I take very literally the concept of giving a Jew the benefit of the doubt, and not speaking derogatorily about Jews before non-Jews but it seems you scoff at these ideas. I take very dear the idea of Ahavat Yisrael and feel very sad that you have consistently seen me as an opponent, or someone to try to insult. It is sad that this seems to be the case, and it is fine with me, because this is another challenge in its own right.
If I could impart to you these concepts I would be satisfied. You do not need to agree with what I say, nor do you have to be happy with what I say, but you could attempt to communicate your feelings in a way which moves the discussion forward instead of concentrating on the disagreement.
Regarding the original topic I have clearly stated my position. I accept the Talmud, and a variety of lessons learned from the Talmud. I learn from many Rabbis, and attempt to reconcile any differences by accepting that each has its own truth. This is one lesson that the Talmud teaches, that there can be differences of opinion {look at Hillel and Shammai} and yet both can be true.
--- Quote ---http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/hillel_and_shammai/
A heavenly voice declared: “The words of both schools are the words of the living God, but the law follows the rulings of the school of Hillel.”
So why does the law follow the rulings of the school of Hillel? The Talmud explains that the disciples of Hillel were gentle and modest, and studied both their own opinions and the opinions of the other school, and humbly mentioned the words of the other school before their own.
--- End quote ---
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 28, 2012, 07:30:34 PM ---
I have brought Rambam when Rambam expresses the idea I am trying to convey, but unlike you and Tag, I don't consider Rambam to be the ONLY authority on Jewish law or thought. He is greatly respected, and as I point out, Chabad studies Rambam just like most other religious Jews. But one should really learn more than just Rambam.
--- End quote ---
??? neither of us never said we only accept the Rambam.
And about Beit Shamai and Beit Hillel. Beit Hillel was accepted as the Halacha because it was established as such (I believe it was by majority, I could be mistaken).
muman613:
--- Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on October 28, 2012, 07:45:25 PM --- ??? neither of us never said we only accept the Rambam.
And about Beit Shamai and Beit Hillel. Beit Hillel was accepted as the Halacha because it was established as such (I believe it was by majority, I could be mistaken).
--- End quote ---
Ok, sometimes it seems to me that this is the case... I apologize if I misrepresented your position...
Read that Talmud portion, I think it is Eruvin 13b.... This is one case were a 'Bat Kol', or heavenly voice decided the Halacha... I will reproduce it here..
http://halakhah.com/pdf/moed/Eiruvin.pdf
--- Quote --- R. Abba stated in the name of Samuel: For three years there was a dispute between Beth Shammai and Beth Hillel, the former asserting, ‘The halachah is in agreement with our views’ and the latter contending, ‘The halachah is in agreement with our views’. Then a bath kol 22 issued announcing, ‘[The utterances of] both 23 are the words of the living God, but the halachah is in agreement with the rulings of Beth Hillel’. Since, however, both are the words of the living God’ what was it that entitled Beth Hillel to have the halachah fixed in agreement with their rulings? Because they were kindly and modest, they studied their own rulings and those of Beth Shammai, 24 and were even so 25 [humble] as to mention the actions 26 of Beth Shammai before theirs, (as may be seen from27 what we have learnt: If a man had his head and the greater part of his body within the sukkah 28 but his table in the house, 29 Beth Shammai ruled [that the booth was] invalid but Beth Hillel ruled that it was valid. Said Beth Hillel to Beth Shammai, ‘Did it not so happen that the elders of Beth Shammai 30 and the elders of Beth Hillel went on a visit to R. Johanan b. Hahoranith and found him sitting with his head and greater part of his body within the sukkah while his table was in the house?’ Beth Shammai replied: From31 there proof [may be adduced for our view for] they indeed told him, ‘If you have always acted in this manner you have never fulfilled the commandment of sukkah’). This 32 teaches you that him who humbles himself, the Holy One, blessed be He, raises up, and him who exalts himself, the Holy One, blessed be He, humbles; from him who seeks greatness, greatness flees, but him who flees from greatness, greatness follows; he who forces time 33 is forced back by time 34 but he who yields 35 to time 36 finds time standing at his side.37
--- End quote ---
PS: I also meant to say that I don't think KWRBT only reads or follows the Rambam... What I said was due to my own frustration due to a misunderstanding.
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