Rav Ovadia Yosef the spiritual leaders of shas is dead

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  Also 1 more point- besides representing ourselves, we are also in a way representing the teachings and ways of Rav Kahane ZTL HYD, writing and saying some things that he didn't and definitely wouldn't do, would and does paint a negative picture about the Rav's legacy and people would accuse of Rav Kahane ZTL HYD promoting in fighting within Am Yisrael and such. 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

You know what I resent you repeating the usual gentile accusations against Jews as money grabbers and only interested in $ and such. To Jews reading this please be careful with that you say and how you expess yourselves. We do have a problem with Shas and Rabbi Ovadi's position but it is a Haskafic problem and let's leave it as such.

I don't think Jews are money-grabbers, but I do think the Shas party is profoundly greedy and corrupt. They sold the entire Jewish nation down the river for gelt for their schools and programs and so that some of their followers didn't have to work for a living.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  Everyone gets money for their schools and programs. Democrats and republicans do that as well for example and the system in Israel is set up even more soo like this.
  Secular schools get $ for their schooling (something like 4 times the cost of a Religious school), why would it be a problem for Religious schools to also get $ for religious education (or the various educations that the parents want- National Religious and such as well). Everyone get's $ and its either you take or you dont have education. (or send children to school with Atheist and secular teachers) That's the system. And Arutz Sheva had article showing that they didn't/dont take more in proportion as the leftists usually accuse Haredim of doing.


 Dude forget it, its a long history as well and at what times and what they did and didn't do at what times (different times as well when the party was good then bad, then good again and now perhaps back to bad).

 My opinion- Shas was good at the beginning, it was good for them to stand up for impoverished Sefardim who were discriminated against. It also included Rav Yaakov Yosef ZTL who was very pro Eress Yisrael. Then they went bad, then good under for some time and on the local level promoting settling Eretz Yisrael (like in "East Jerusalem") and now unfortunately it will probably go leftist (and then either plunge in votes, or change their ways of thinking and policy or splitt.

 + Also perhaps they viewed and view the "cultural war" within Israel more important then the outside wars.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I don't think Jews are money-grabbers, but I do think the Shas party is profoundly greedy and corrupt. They sold the entire Jewish nation down the river for gelt for their schools and programs and so that some of their followers didn't have to work for a living.

I think this is an absolutely fair criticism.  Some people and orgs just  are this way (Jew or gentile).  I personally think Rav Kahane WOULD have pointed out the corruption of Shas.   Had he not been murdered shas would be nothing today IMO. So many sephardim supported rabbi kahane.  And he lived in the pre oslo era.  Shas didn't do such unspeakable evil in his day and it was. Still a relatively new party.  There wasn't such a need to condemn them yet.

[ChabadKahanist]

YU Talmidim don't call him evil, gerer chassidim don't call him evil,only you do.
You ask what he accomplished, I honestly don't know much about him but I know tons of Jews consider him a great scholar , including Rav Yakov Weinberg zt"l of ner yisrael, whose talmidim say he considered rav shach the leading halachic authority of eretz yisrael.  Anyway why don't you learn about what he accomplished instead of judging based on some meaningless bombastic comments he made.

Did the L Rebbe give farbrengen after the stroke?  I know an elderly Jew personally who used to go to the farbrengens of the rebbe and when at one of them they declared him moshiach and he said nothing, this Jew stopped going to any farbrengens and disconnected from chabad entirely.

The Rebbe could not speak after the stroke nor according to some was he aware of what was going on after the stroke. They just put him out in front of the crowd like a display he was incapable of cognizant communication after the stroke

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

From an outside source (Askenasi LOL)

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Rabbis should not be "rockstars" (and neither should Christian ministers or other religious figures). The title is one of holiness, not fame and fortune and popularity. Generally, if a religious figure is enormously popular it means they have watered down the message of their religion's respective holy writings, or is saying something blatantly whorish (like "G-d wants you to be rich!").

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Rabbis should not be "rockstars" (and neither should Christian ministers or other religious figures). The title is one of holiness, not fame and fortune and popularity. Generally, if a religious figure is enormously popular it means they have watered down the message of their religion's respective holy writings, or is saying something blatantly whorish (like "G-d wants you to be rich!").

 Just the title, never mind it, don't care about it but what was said in it I posted for others to see.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The Rebbe could not speak after the stroke nor according to some was he aware of what was going on after the stroke. They just put him out in front of the crowd like a display he was incapable of cognizant communication after the stroke

Well then this farbrengen was before his illness because he was still saying Torah at them at that point.   Sorry to disappoint you.   
I will ask my friend to make sure though in case I'm mistaken.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Well then this farbrengen was before his illness because he was still saying Torah at them at that point.   Sorry to disappoint you.   
I will ask my friend to make sure though in case I'm mistaken.

 Someone tried to explain it like this- that at the time they were saying he is Moshiah, he didn't protest because he didn't know, he though maybe he could be Moshiah soo he didn't say anything (didn't say he is and didn't say he is not).

 W/E to CK I dont get why Rabbi Schach is disliked for saying what he did against Chabad but the Gra is respected (who said similar things, but generations ago) and refused to recognize Chabad and put them in Herem as well.

[ChabadKahanist]

Someone tried to explain it like this- that at the time they were saying he is Moshiah, he didn't protest because he didn't know, he though maybe he could be Moshiah soo he didn't say anything (didn't say he is and didn't say he is not).

 W/E to CK I dont get why Rabbi Schach is disliked for saying what he did against Chabad but the Gra is respected (who said similar things, but generations ago) and refused to recognize Chabad and put them in Herem as well.

It wasn't just Chabad it was all Chassidus not Chabad in particular & that was because he was misled by his undelings.
FYI,The shitas in halacha are 95 percent the same.
Also FYI,Both wanted to have duchening even outside Israel but came to the same conclusion that they didn't want to make waves among the people.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

 

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

It wasn't just Chabad it was all Chassidus not Chabad in particular & that was because he was misled by his undelings.
FYI,The shitas in halacha are 95 percent the same.
Also FYI,Both wanted to have duchening even outside Israel but came to the same conclusion that they didn't want to make waves among the people.

 Ookay. I also thought the same except that later I found out Chabad was the only Hassidut he was familiar with and he was against Hassidut because of Chabad (in essence against Chabad and by extension others because of Chabad in particular).
 Regardless his words were more harsh then Rav Schach and what Rav Schach said (and the fact that he was against Chabad) wasn't revolutionary at the least and more moderate then what the Gra said, but you respect the Gra while not Rav Schach?

  Problem as I understand isn't Halacha its the philosophy differences. And what does duchening have anything to do with anything else? I am Sefardi we do and always did.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

 
  you have mood swings.

[ChabadKahanist]

Ookay. I also thought the same except that later I found out Chabad was the only Hassidut he was familiar with and he was against Hassidut because of Chabad (in essence against Chabad and by extension others because of Chabad in particular).
 Regardless his words were more harsh then Rav Schach and what Rav Schach said (and the fact that he was against Chabad) wasn't revolutionary at the least and more moderate then what the Gra said, but you respect the Gra while not Rav Schach?

  Problem as I understand isn't Halacha its the philosophy differences. And what does duchening have anything to do with anything else? I am Sefardi we do and always did.

Actually that is not so the Vitebsker used to roll around in the snow & his (Gra's) underlings misled him.
My thing against Shach is not only the things he said about the Rebbe but against other Rabbanim like Rav Soloveitchik,Rav Steinsaltz,The Gerer Rebbe as well & the list goes on.
The man could not handle that others were more accomplished  & more widely respected than him.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Someone tried to explain it like this- that at the time they were saying he is Moshiah, he didn't protest because he didn't know, he though maybe he could be Moshiah soo he didn't say anything (didn't say he is and didn't say he is not).

No. He did know because they were announcing it publicly at the farbrengen to all the people there.   And then he said and did nothing.   That is what my friend told me and why he stopped going to farbrengens.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Actually that is not so the Vitebsker used to roll around in the snow & his (Gra's) underlings misled him.
My thing against Shach is not only the things he said about the Rebbe but against other Rabbanim like Rav Soloveitchik,Rav Steinsaltz,The Gerer Rebbe as well & the list goes on.
The man could not handle that others were more accomplished  & more widely respected than him.

As I said before, Not speaking for chabad but all the others you list:  none of the followers and students of those people call him evil.  Only you do.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

No. He did know because they were announcing it publicly at the farbrengen to all the people there.   And then he said and did nothing.   That is what my friend told me and why he stopped going to farbrengens.

 I think you misunderstood me. I said this is what someone once claimed, that he didn't know if he was or wasn't the Moshiah. He thought that maybe he could have been soo he didn't protest- didn;t say yes and didn't say no.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Actually that is not so the Vitebsker used to roll around in the snow & his (Gra's) underlings misled him.
My thing against Shach is not only the things he said about the Rebbe but against other Rabbanim like Rav Soloveitchik,Rav Steinsaltz,The Gerer Rebbe as well & the list goes on.
The man could not handle that others were more accomplished  & more widely respected than him.

 Don't know what or who the Vitebsker are. I heard of some (at least saying) to do that (roll around in snow) from some Kabbalistic sources as a Kapparah for certain sins. Apparently some did this in Jerusalem when it was snowing. My opinion- crazy.
 You think the Gra was just simply mislead? He specifically attacked some of the writings and philosophy of Chabad. I dont think he would just refuse even to meet with someone simply by hearing from someone else. He probably read the manuscripts and/or saw some actions being done.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Also you stated that the messicists are crazy, ookay, but how many are they? What % be honest. And why did they take over such buildings such as 770 (and why did your group let them?)
 You do realize that what Rav Schach said that they will and creating new religion is not soo far fetched? What you think those Messicists will do in a generation or 2 (even now). That is how other religions started as well.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I think you misunderstood me. I said this is what someone once claimed, that he didn't know if he was or wasn't the Moshiah. He thought that maybe he could have been soo he didn't protest- didn;t say yes and didn't say no.

For a rabbi to think "I could be the moshiach" is very problematic.

[ChabadKahanist]

Also you stated that the messicists are crazy, ookay, but how many are they? What % be honest. And why did they take over such buildings such as 770 (and why did your group let them?)
 You do realize that what Rav Schach said that they will and creating new religion is not soo far fetched? What you think those Messicists will do in a generation or 2 (even now). That is how other religions started as well.

I think about 40-5% are Mishchichtim unfortunately.
 

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I think about 40-5% are Mishchichtim unfortunately.
 

 Exactly. Soo what Rav Schach said is not soo wrong even by your numbers. ~ 50% is a very serious matter. Its basically a foundation to and for a new religion and perhaps like others (besides being against the Torah and G-D) after time they will develop antithesis towards the others (Jews) who didn't accept their messiah/"god" (for some already) and develop an antipathy specifically against us in particular since they will want and need us to verify that they are correct. It is a new religion basically just like the others and like the others, then they will take away more and more Misswoth and pray more and more towards this messiah/"god" instead of the 1 true G-D.

 The unity of G-D is a foundation and absolute must for Am Yisrael. No "partners" at all.

[ChabadKahanist]

Exactly. Soo what Rav Schach said is not soo wrong even by your numbers. ~ 50% is a very serious matter. Its basically a foundation to and for a new religion and perhaps like others (besides being against the Torah and G-D) after time they will develop antithesis towards the others (Jews) who didn't accept their messiah/"god" (for some already) and develop an antipathy specifically against us in particular since they will want and need us to verify that they are correct. It is a new religion basically just like the others and like the others, then they will take away more and more Misswoth and pray more and more towards this messiah/"god" instead of the 1 true G-D.

 The unity of G-D is a foundation and absolute must for Am Yisrael. No "partners" at all.

I agree with you on this & these people are extremely sick in the head !!!!!!

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I agree with you on this & these people are extremely sick in the head !!!!!!

 Exactly, soo what the Gra and Rav Schach (especially Rav Schach which is much closer to these times and those people were alive when Rav Schach was alive) isn't wrong and such. Soo why the "beef" with Rav Schach? Even your saying that he was correct in calling them out and warning the others about this phenomena that is about to take place (at his time about to take place) now we see the consequences in large numbers (according to your estimates) . Perhaps the Gra saw this generations ago and what it will develop into.