Rav Ovadia Yosef the spiritual leaders of shas is dead

[ChabadKahanist]

Exactly, soo what the Gra and Rav Schach (especially Rav Schach which is much closer to these times and those people were alive when Rav Schach was alive) isn't wrong and such. Soo why the "beef" with Rav Schach? Even your saying that he was correct in calling them out and warning the others about this phenomena that is about to take place (at his time about to take place) now we see the consequences in large numbers (according to your estimates) . Perhaps the Gra saw this generations ago and what it will develop into.

So what do you say about the Na Nachs & the followers of HaRav Ovadia who think that their guy is Moshiach?
Shach was just plain evil what did he have against Rav Soloveitchik,Rav Steinsaltz & the Gerrer Rebbe?
He was a menuval clear & simple.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

So what do you say about the Na Nachs & the followers of HaRav Ovadia who think that their guy is Moshiach?
Shach was just plain evil what did he have against Rav Soloveitchik,Rav Steinsaltz & the Gerrer Rebbe?
He was a menuval clear & simple.

 Rav Ovadia doesn't nor has he ever had followers that ever declared him Moshiah. You are simply making things up. Not Moshiah, not partnership with G-D or anything. I know what they said and say they love him for his abilities of quoting sources and being able to answer hard questions with proofs and sources all by heart. Basically they value his learning skills, that is completely different then saying that their Rabbi, or like Chabad Rebbe's is "partners with G-D" or some of the other things- as you yourself know what they say.
 
 Na Nach's and Rebbe Nachman did have some problems with his teachings. Not everything should or could be accepted. Some was/is very good others not soo much for example going to his kever and such.

 Your "beef" with Rav Schach is what he said about Chabad, all the rest are just commentary (additional things you need to verify your antithesis towards him).
   Chaim himself said the problems he had with the followers of Rav Solovetchic (not the Rav himself), that they are more leftist and such. You never said anything against Chaim for it. Soo you dont have a problem in someone calling them out but just use that to attach it to him calling out Chabad.
 R Steinzaltz- I explained before why and anyway his words were probably good for his followers and not to use those books. For the rest it doesn't matter, if anything it boosted his sales and at the same time for those it wouldn't be useful for keeps them away.
  I dont know about Gerrer Rebbe and what they stand for or what he said any anything connected, but at least admit that had he not said anything against Chabad you wouldn't have beef with him. 

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Anyway enough of this.

[ChabadKahanist]

Rav Ovadia doesn't nor has he ever had followers that ever declared him Moshiah. You are simply making things up. Not Moshiah, not partnership with G-D or anything. I know what they said and say they love him for his abilities of quoting sources and being able to answer hard questions with proofs and sources all by heart. Basically they value his learning skills, that is completely different then saying that their Rabbi, or like Chabad Rebbe's is "partners with G-D" or some of the other things- as you yourself know what they say.
 
 Na Nach's and Rebbe Nachman did have some problems with his teachings. Not everything should or could be accepted. Some was/is very good others not soo much for example going to his kever and such.

 Your "beef" with Rav Schach is what he said about Chabad, all the rest are just commentary (additional things you need to verify your antithesis towards him).
   Chaim himself said the problems he had with the followers of Rav Solovetchic (not the Rav himself), that they are more leftist and such. You never said anything against Chaim for it. Soo you dont have a problem in someone calling them out but just use that to attach it to him calling out Chabad.
 R Steinzaltz- I explained before why and anyway his words were probably good for his followers and not to use those books. For the rest it doesn't matter, if anything it boosted his sales and at the same time for those it wouldn't be useful for keeps them away.
  I dont know about Gerrer Rebbe and what they stand for or what he said any anything connected, but at least admit that had he not said anything against Chabad you wouldn't have beef with him.

I am not making up things at all I have actually met people that since his his death he is Moshiach.
I don't make things up.
I get around here alot in Jerusalem & this is no BS.
As for Shach what did he contribute to Klal Yisroel......NOTHING other than turing off Jews to Judaism that could  have been mikareved if not for his disgusting hatred for all that are not like him.

[muman613]

Anyway enough of this.

The most sensible thing I have heard you say in this thread in a LONG time...

I am really ashamed of this thread and just hope it will go away soon. Cannot believe this kind of thing is even acceptable at JTF...

Also, Breslev does not think Rabbi Nachman is moshiach. It is not the teaching, nor do most Breslev chassidim believe this. Na Nach is only a small fraction of Breslev also. There is a big difference between being Moshiach and being a Tzadik. But I am sick and tired of defending against slander.

[ChabadKahanist]

The most sensible thing I have heard you say in this thread in a LONG time...

I am really ashamed of this thread and just hope it will go away soon. Cannot believe this kind of thing is even acceptable at JTF...

Also, Breslev does not think Rabbi Nachman is moshiach. It is not the teaching, nor do most Breslev chassidim believe this. Na Nach is only a small fraction of Breslev also. There is a big difference between being Moshiach and being a Tzadik. But I am sick and tired of defending against slander.

Actually the Na Nachs think he is I have seen stickers all over the place that said Na Nach is the name of Moshiach.
Normal Breslovers are against Na Nach just as normal Chabad is against the yechi yodelers.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

CK get real. No one thinks that Rav Ovadia was/is the Moshiah. Who told you this? This was never ever mentioned nor was/is this serious in anyway like the Chabad were/are. Get real. I heard from a certain Misnaged Rabbi (who has family who are Chabad) say that they think that every group thinks their Rabbi or Rebbe is Moshiah, but this isn't true, its what Chabadniks project unto others and at the same time think that deep down all of us accept the Rebbe as Moshiah, yeaa right.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Ck what you tried to claim, had it been soo even in the slightest way the media would be all over it. Even had their been a tiny fringe, they would love to see this and would publicize it all over. Soo please speak the truth and with facts.

[ChabadKahanist]

CK get real. No one thinks that Rav Ovadia was/is the Moshiah. Who told you this? This was never ever mentioned nor was/is this serious in anyway like the Chabad were/are. Get real. I heard from a certain Misnaged Rabbi (who has family who are Chabad) say that they think that every group thinks their Rabbi or Rebbe is Moshiah, but this isn't true, its what Chabadniks project unto others and at the same time think that deep down all of us accept the Rebbe as Moshiah, yeaa right.

I actually met some people that think that Rav Ovadia is Moshiach  I am not making this up.
There actually exists a small portion that believes this
Just like the Na Nachs think that their guy is Moshiach.
I say it is no mitzvah to speculate who Moshiach will be & the normal Chabad rabbonim hold this as well.
Between all these nut jobs I say to them may the best Moshiach win,however I have no idea who it will be nor will I speculate.
When the real Moshiach comes everybody will know who is case closed.

[Israel Chai]

Actually the Na Nachs think he is I have seen stickers all over the place that said Na Nach is the name of Moshiach.
Normal Breslovers are against Na Nach just as normal Chabad is against the yechi yodelers.

So what about the Tikun Haklali that says "say NA-NACH-NACHMA-NACHMAN MEUMAN" for a good omen or "I hereby attach myself... in particular to the righteous sage, mainstay of the world, our Rabbi Nachmen..."
Should I not be saying that? Someone gave it to me...

[muman613]

CK get real. No one thinks that Rav Ovadia was/is the Moshiah. Who told you this? This was never ever mentioned nor was/is this serious in anyway like the Chabad were/are. Get real. I heard from a certain Misnaged Rabbi (who has family who are Chabad) say that they think that every group thinks their Rabbi or Rebbe is Moshiah, but this isn't true, its what Chabadniks project unto others and at the same time think that deep down all of us accept the Rebbe as Moshiah, yeaa right.

Again, there is confusion about Tzadik versus Moshiach. I will admit that Chabad thinks Rebbe was a Tzadik, so too does Breslev believe that Rabbi Nachman was a Tzadik. There is a lot of Chassidic thought concerning how the Rebbe has qualities which permit him to bring unity to his students. But I am sure they don't believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach. We all know that Moshiach is a central figure which unities all Jews together, who brings about the ingathering of exiles, who rebuilds the Temple, etc....

I believe that every Chassidic student believes his teacher is the Tzadik, and I have no problem with this.

RE: Na Nach.... I already said that they are a minority of Breslevers and they do not speak for the Breslev community. The Breslev which I respect are Rabbi Shalom Arush's Yeshiva Chut Shel Chessed along with Rabbi Lazer Brody....

[muman613]

This thread is bordering on disgusting...

If there are people who believe their Rabbi is Moshiach they are mistaken because we are still in Galut, and the Temple remains unbuilt, and the Jewish people are not united, and peace does not rule on earth, and Torah does not fill the world like water... We know Moshiach is still coming, and we wait for him. Every Chabad Rabbi I know teaches this, I have listened to many and know several personally. I also listen to Breslev Rabbi's who also teach that Moshiach is coming.

What are we accomplishing here by slandering entire sects of Chassidic Judaism? I really wonder if only those who are slandering are doing so for not so pure reasons.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I actually met some people that think that Rav Ovadia is Moshiach  I am not making this up.
There actually exists a small portion that believes this

 Regardless it was never said by anyone important (and this is the first time I ever even heard of anyone even thinking about it) . Also Rav Ovadia never said it or ever even hinted at this in the slightest way. Like their never was even a question of maybe, get what I'm saying? At the most it was said that he would be the one who would greet the Moshiah first and verify and also a dream he had of the Moshiah speaking with him, but that is all. They generally are are pashtanim and not as connected to mysticism and mysical type of teachings (although in some cases of Halacha since the Shulhan Aruch paskens certain ways according to the Kabbalah they follow it- mainly the Shulhan Aruch and its Psak Din)- something I differ with and dont personally do. All or most other cases- Pshat over Sod (they do).

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

So what about the Tikun Haklali that says "say NA-NACH-NACHMA-NACHMAN MEUMAN" for a good omen or "I hereby attach myself... in particular to the righteous sage, mainstay of the world, our Rabbi Nachmen..."
Should I not be saying that? Someone gave it to me...

 Just skipp it. Also better to learn Torah and Halacha then spending time reading even Tehillim (hold your tomatoes guys), but seriously dont read just senslessly without knowing, if you read with translation and understand different story, but just reading and expecting some miracle or something- dont count on it.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

So what do you say about the Na Nachs & the followers of HaRav Ovadia who think that their guy is Moshiach?
Shach was just plain evil what did he have against Rav Soloveitchik,Rav Steinsaltz & the Gerrer Rebbe?
He was a menuval clear & simple.

Speaking nonsense again.  What did he have against them?  Political rivalry, what else?  So what.  His hashkafa was wrong, simple as that.   Doesn't make him an evil person or so called "menuval" (huh?)
Na nachs are nuts too.  No sefardim think Rabbi ovadia Yosef was moshiach.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Speaking nonsense again.  What did he have against them?  Political rivalry, what else?  So what.  His hashkafa was wrong, simple as that.   Doesn't make him an evil person or so called "menuval" (huh?)
Na nachs are nuts too.  No sefardim think Rabbi ovadia Yosef was moshiach.

 Na na na nutz!     

[muman613]

http://www.shmais.com/chabad-news/latest/item/what-rabbi-ovadia-yosef-wrote-to-the-rebbe

What Rabbi Ovadia Yosef Wrote to the Rebbe
Posted Thursday, Oct 10 2013 10:40pm in Chabad News

In a sefer called, Kovod Chachamim Ateres Paz, which was produced in honor of the Rebbe’s 87th birthday, there is a pilpul contributed by the late Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, who passed away this week.



At the time, Rabbi Yosef was the Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel, the Rishon Letzion. In an introduction to his pipul, Rabbi Yosef wrote, “This responsa is dedicated to the sefer Kavod LeMelachim in honor of the glory and light of the generation, the ‘rosh golas Ariel,’ the Lubavitcher Rebbe, who has reached his 87th year. The merit of his lofty actions in spreading Torah and pure faith to all corners of the world should bring him a long life of many years and days, with physical health … until the coming of Moshiach.”

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I actually met some people that think that Rav Ovadia is Moshiach  I am not making this up.
There actually exists a small portion that believes this
Just like the Na Nachs think that their guy is Moshiach.
I say it is no mitzvah to speculate who Moshiach will be & the normal Chabad rabbonim hold this as well.
Between all these nut jobs I say to them may the best Moshiach win,however I have no idea who it will be nor will I speculate.
When the real Moshiach comes everybody will know who is case closed.

I already know it is none of the people you just mentioned because they are all dead and already didn't achieve it in their lifetimes.  What more obvious evidence could there be?  Only a crazy person believes their dead rebbe was/is the moshiach or could be moshiach.  Plain and simple.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

This thread is bordering on disgusting...

If there are people who believe their Rabbi is Moshiach they are mistaken because we are still in Galut, and the Temple remains unbuilt, and the Jewish people are not united, and peace does not rule on earth, and Torah does not fill the world like water... We know Moshiach is still coming, and we wait for him. Every Chabad Rabbi I know teaches this, I have listened to many and know several personally. I also listen to Breslev Rabbi's who also teach that Moshiach is coming.

What are we accomplishing here by slandering entire sects of Chassidic Judaism? I really wonder if only those who are slandering are doing so for not so pure reasons.

I don't know what you're reading but the only slander in this thread was against rav shach.  None of the non messichists among any chassidic sects were spoken of negatively.   Do you have a problem with criticism of messichists?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

KWRBT I agree, and Muman- I dont get your last post about Rav Ovadia's letter of the LR?

 Also to CK- since the late Rebbe is dead and you agree that he cannot be the Moshiah, who is the Rebbe or your Rebbe now? Isn't the point of Hassidut to have a Rebbe, or it is somewhat like Breslev without a living Rebbe?

[muman613]

I am pointing out that Rabbi Yosef had no problem with the Rebbe... He considered the Lubavitch Rebbe a Gadol HaDor...

And this bickering about messichist sects of Chassidic Judaism is going to reach nowhere...

Nobody reading this believes that their Rebbe was Moshiach. I have clearly stated that the argument against mesichists is simple. Should we spend weeks arguing about this?

[muman613]

KWRBT I agree, and Muman- I dont get your last post about Rav Ovadia's letter of the LR?

 Also to CK- since the late Rebbe is dead and you agree that he cannot be the Moshiah, who is the Rebbe or your Rebbe now? Isn't the point of Hassidut to have a Rebbe, or it is somewhat like Breslev without a living Rebbe?

Breslev and Chabad both don't have leaders of their Chassidic dynasty any more. But we are taught to 'Make a Rabbi for yourself' (Pirkie Avot)...


http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter1-6a.html

"Yehoshua ben (son of) Perachia and Nittai of Arbel received the transmission from them [the rabbis of Mishna 4]. Yehoshua ben Perachia said: Make for yourself a rabbi, acquire for yourself a friend, and judge every person favorably."

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Breslev and Chabad both don't have leaders of their Chassidic dynasty any more. But we are taught to 'Make a Rabbi for yourself' (Pirkie Avot)...


http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter1-6a.html

 Ok but the main point in Chassidut in general is the idea of a "Rebbe". Since they are dead (from these groups) how does the Hassidut still function? Well with Breslov some still go to his kever and all, with Chabad the messicists cant get over the fact that he died soo some of them in 770 still pretend to recieve a dollar from him and salute him (no joke) and do similar things.
 I am asking about the sane one's, how and why do they still go by the title of being Chabad for example when they don't have a Rebbe/leader leading them.

[muman613]

Ok but the main point in Chassidut in general is the idea of a "Rebbe". Since they are dead (from these groups) how does the Hassidut still function? Well with Breslov some still go to his kever and all, with Chabad the messicists cant get over the fact that he died soo some of them in 770 still pretend to recieve a dollar from him and salute him (no joke) and do similar things.
 I am asking about the sane one's, how and why do they still go by the title of being Chabad for example when they don't have a Rebbe/leader leading them.

Chabad and Breslev do not have a 'Rebbe' leading the organization, yet there are many great Rabbis who are considered 'Emissaries' of the Rebbe which have been sent to the four corners of the world to bring back the Jews who may have been lost. Chabad has many great rabbis who help many thousands of Jews..

Chabad is an organization, Lubavitch is the name of the Chassidic sect... The last Lubavitch 'Rebbe' was Rabbi M. Schneerson.

[muman613]

Here is an example of the good work the Chabad organization does:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/172874

Following three months of beta testing with over 2,000 visitors, Colel Chabad officially opened its new "Pantry Packers" facility in Jerusalem on Friday.  Colel Chabad is the social welfare arm of Chabad-Lubavitch. It is the largest and oldest organization in Israel tasked with providing food and social services for needy Israeli families, widows and orphans, Holocaust survivors, the elderly indigent and Russian immigrants.

“Pantry Packers is a packing facility for dried food basics such as rice and beans which are included in the monthly pantry baskets delivered by Colel Chabad to 5,000 of Israel’s neediest families”, says Rabbi Menachem Traxler, director of Pantry Packers.

The 5,000 square foot facility is made possible thanks to a gift from Daniel and Eugenia Fuchs and Family of Sao Paolo, Brazil.  They were present at the grand opening along with the Executive Board of the Federação Israelita do Estado de São Paulo (FISESP).

What makes Pantry Packers unique is that it creates a news concept called “Tikkun Olam Tourism” which enables visitors to Israel to spend 90 minutes volunteering in a meaningful, hands-on way, toward alleviating hunger among Israel’s poorest.

“Based on our testing experience, Pantry Packers is the second most important stop on a visit to Jerusalem after the Western Wall”, says Traxler.  “The facility is open by appointment to tourists of all faiths and ages, and is ideally suited for synagogue and church groups, and extended families. Every bag of food staples contains a slip of paper with the name of the volunteer group that packed it – so that the beneficiaries can know whom to thank in their hearts and in their prayers.”

The official ribbon cutting took place in the presence of Colel Chabad Executive Director Rabbi Sholom Duchman.  Israel’s newly installed Chief Rabbi David Lau affixed the mezuzah to the main entrance.  Also present were the directors of Israel’s leading tour operators who have been instrumental in scheduling a mandatory stop at Pantry Packers for their overseas tour groups.