Worship the False Messiah : How could so many be fooled?

[Yehudayaakov]

^^ there are not many who can come  with this kind of stuff.

thanks. please excuse me if the chronology is a bit off...

Bezalel built an ark
from donated gold and acacia wood
and things were getting better
and better in the hood
   
...

we even had some time here and there
for our women in beds

These were good days, with my family and I
But one day Aarons sons got faded,
burned some strange incense and died

I'm not sure what happened
there was some commotion and a boom
and next thing we knew, they were by fire consumed

I consoled my young homie
there wasn't much I could do
he handled it well
like a good soldier jew

I stuttered for words
there wasn't much I could say
the good lord giveth
and he taketh away

Aaron was down
but carried on like a champ
and once again we pulled up stakes
and moved on from the camp

We got some instructions
about goats and food laws and stuff
this Torah was great
I couldn't get enough
...

this Torah was great 
I couldn't get enough 

Great stuff mate.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What, Hebrew Satanism? Basically, I think people of Hebrew descent need the freedom to be individuals and have an identity outside the strict code of mosaic law. Hebrew satanism does not deny the existence of God or the factual history of Israel and does still worship and pray to God but we give the devil his due as well and honor Satan (God's evil side). There have been enough spin-off hebrew movements trying to describe themselves as thus without fully saying it out loud. Satan is a part and parcel of Israelite history and we honor him. If God expects Israelites to live up to the Mosaic law after certain events than the truth is that the God of Israel has an evil or unreasonable side. I don't really know what else to say; I've seen too much of human nature to deny the power of satan. Satan is identified with evil and he may well be partly evil, but satan also represents individuality, non conformity etc...Hebrew Satanism allows Jews to be Christians and buddhists at the same time, not because we believe in or worship rock or stone but because this imagery has been allowed to bombard the senses so we accept it as part of the fabric of reality. Hebrew satanism attempts to be realistic about humans nature and God. We do acknowledge that the entire Nile to Euphrates belongs to ethnic Israelites such as myself but not based on whether they obey the mosaic code or not. We do not stress about lighting bonfires on sabbath, nor do we do things like get rid of breadcrumbs at passover. We are a lawless group by international political standards as well as rabbinic ones and far more extreme and far less modest than Kahanism. If you want to know our plan for Israel, you can PM me; I would be called inciting if I posted it publicly.

This is some retarded nonsense.    Just like the frankists, trying to justify your evil behavior with twisted "philosophies" that don't make any sense.

I knew you had to be harboring some twisted delusions if you were defending shabtai tzvi.  Next you'll defend Hitler.

[Yehudayaakov]

This is some retarded nonsense.    Just like the frankists, trying to justify your evil behavior with twisted "philosophies" that don't make any sense.

I knew you had to be harboring some twisted delusions if you were defending shabtai tzvi.  Next you'll defend Hitler.

KWRBT have you read what he wrotes ? He says he would follow Moses, great Bar Kochba if he was here today! Sometimes you post comment you don't know why you write them!
Beside his poetry is great 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

KWRBT have you read what he wrotes ? He says he would follow Moses, great Bar Kochba if he was here today! Sometimes you post comment you don't know why you write them!
Beside his poetry is great 

Lol to follow Moshe is to follow Judaism, plain and simple.   Creating his own religion to worship some imaginary devil character is definitely NOT following Moshe who left instructions for his followers for all the generations, not just the ones in which he was alive.    Moshe killed the people who worshipped the golden calf.  Use your imagination about what Moshe would do with shai and anyone else who worships the evil of shabtai tazi and Frank.

Him saying he would follow Moshe is for selfish reasons and is meaningless given what he chooses to follow in real life.  You admire his poetry?  Should we admire the artwork of a traitor like gideon levy?  Maybe gideon levy is really skilled in paint by number.

[muman613]

Lol to follow Moshe is to follow Judaism, plain and simple.   Creating his own religion to worship some imaginary devil character is definitely NOT following Moshe who left instructions for his followers for all the generations, not just the ones in which he was alive.    Moshe killed the people who worshipped the golden calf.  Use your imagination about what Moshe would do with shai and anyone else who worships the evil of shabtai tazi and Frank.

Him saying he would follow Moshe is for selfish reasons and is meaningless given what he chooses to follow in real life.  You admire his poetry?  Should we admire the artwork of a traitor like gideon levy?  Maybe gideon levy is really skilled in paint by number.

Sometimes you seem very judgmental to me. This is a real Jew you are talking about. You should consider trying to follow the Torah some day. Our Holy Torah places a great deal of import on how a Jew treats his fellow, and sometimes you seem to be lacking in Ahavat Yisroel. I have rebuked you about this in the past and you have continued your way (which is fine by me because I accept you as a Jew who is only acting in the best way he knows). I seek to bring Jews back to Torah which is why I reach out to Jews and befriend them no matter where on the ladder of Jewish observance he or she is. This is because of the kindness which was bestowed on me from my Jewish community when I was far from Torah.

Indeed what he has said is wrong according to our beliefs. But what he said is a result of his environment and upbringing. We all must judge others in the context of their life experience.

I will bring Pirkie Avot... Chapter 2 Mishnah 4:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2011/jewish/Chapter-Two.htm

4. He would also say: Make that His will should be your will, so that He should make your will to be as His will. Nullify your will before His will, so that He should nullify the will of others before your will.

Hillel would say: Do not separate yourself from the community. Do not believe in yourself until the day you die. Do not judge your fellow until you have stood in his place. Do not say something that is not readily understood in the belief that it will ultimately be understood [or: Do not say something that ought not to be heard even in the strictest confidence, for ultimately it will be heard]. And do not say "When I free myself of my concerns, I will study,'' for perhaps you will never free yourself.

PS: I think he clarified he was being sarcastic when he suggested he worships Soton.

[muman613]

Let me clarify once again.... I do not agree with Shai77 on a lot of his outlook and theology. We have had discussions together arguing our views and while I don't explicitly seek to alter his view, I hope to have influence on them (as I have had with others).

Some of us have had very hard lives. We were not really taught the underpinnings of moral Talmudic Judaism. I count myself among them as I grew up in a mostly non-religious home and only given a Bar Mitzvah because the previous generation demanded it (Baruch Hashem!). I would probably not be here at JTF and spreading the Kahanist message if not for the events of 9/11. But I know now that I have a purpose and have witnessed the power of my personal avodah (service of Hashem) on others.

Torah tells us to personally rebuke those who are on the wrong path. If we do this we are not liable for their sins (the meaning of this is debatable)... We are to judge our co-Jew favorably even when there is evidence that they may not be totally innocent. We are to speak of people in a good light and not spread derogatory information even when it is true. We are to take care of those less fortunate than ourselves and unload the donkey of our 'enemy'.

In my view of Torah the basics, as Hillel said, are 'Love your neighbor as yourself' and 'Do not do to your neighbor what you don't want done to you'. Obviously I hold Shabbat in a very dear place and seek to keep Shabbat perfectly. But I understand how Jews could rebel against it... Do I defend it? Not really... But I am not so angry and vengeful that I will be the 1st to condemn them.

[muman613]

http://www.torah.org/features/secondlook/JudgingFavorably.html

[There is a mitzvah in the Torah called "Judging others favorably." This means if we see someone in a wrongdoing, we must first to stop, think, and consider if perhaps we are missing one crucial factor, that changes the story from the way it appears.]

Take pleasure in making people look good: A virtuous man was walking with his students and they chanced upon the dead carcass of an animal. The students said, "What a foul odor is coming from this carcass!" the virtuous man said, "How white are its teeth!" (Chovos HaLevavos, Shaar Hacniya, chap 6)

Which was true? Which was more obvious?

Both observations were true. Even though the white teeth were much less obvious and easy to overlook in the face of the offensive, overpowering odor of a dead carcass, the virtuous man found something nice to see and to say. He chose to concentrate on the positive. If this can be said concerning a dead animal, how much more so should we try to find the good in a human being.

http://www.torah.org/learning/mlife/ch6law7b.html

"If one sees his fellow sin or following an improper path, he is obligated to return him to the better [path], and to inform him that he is sinning to himself with his evil ways. [This is] as it is stated, 'You shall surely rebuke your fellow' (Leviticus 19:17).

"When one rebukes his fellow, whether in matters between the two of them or in matters between him [the sinner] and G-d (lit., 'the Omnipresent'), he must rebuke him privately (lit., 'between him and himself'). He should speak to him gently, in a soothing (lit., 'soft') tone, telling him that he is only saying this to him for his benefit and to bring him to the life of the World to Come.

"If his fellow accepts his words, it is good. If not, he should rebuke him a second and third time. And so too, he is continuously obligated to rebuke his fellow until the sinner hits him and says to him 'I will not listen.'

http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/peninim/archives/tazria67.htm

When a woman conceives and gives birth to a male (12:2). If a person have on the skin of his flesh a seis, or a sapachas. (13:2)
It seems peculiar that a parsha which deals primarily with the tumah, spiritual contaminations, of tzaraas, spiritual leprosy in its many forms, should be called Parashas Tazria, the Parasha of giving birth. While, in fact, the parsha does begin with the laws concerning a yoledes, woman who just gave birth, it proceeds to focus on tumas tzaraas. Why? The Torah is giving us a subtle message: Bearing a child, procreating, is the act of bringing life into this world. Speaking lashon hora, evil/disparaging speech/slander, takes a life. It is murder, perhaps more discriminating, but no less insidious. It is not violent, but it is, in many instances, just as destructive and fatal. The Torah commences with the positive act of bringing life into this world and the ensuing commitments one has to Hashem vis-?-vis the korbanos, sacrifices, and the period of tumah following the birth. Then the Torah demonstrates simply how derogatory speech and even a negative facial expression can destroy a life.

[muman613]

Now, as is my custom, I would like to demonstrate something through music and American culture...




http://www.ohrtmimim.org/Torah_Default.asp?id=2386

Parshat Tazria-Metzora (5769)

This week we read two Torah portions together. The first, 'Tazria' means 'Giving seed' and the second 'Metzora' is translated 'Leprosy' (actually a Leprosy-like Torah disease called Tzoraat caused by speaking with intent to harm).

These seem to be two opposites. Giving seed is good and Tzoraat is bad. But in a deeper sense they are not.

Leprosy is another name for Moshiach (Messiah) [Talmud Sanhedrin 98b] which is the goal of all our efforts. And giving seed (being positive and productive) is how we bring him.

But at first glance this is not understood. The Messiah, according to Judaism, will bring world peace, health and prosperity, why is he called Tzoraat-Leprosy?

To understand this here is a story. (HaGeula weekly page #460)

[muman613]

http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/82598/jewish/In-the-Garden-of-the-Torah-Metzora.htm

Mashiachs Name

Adapted from
Likkutei Sichos, Vol. VII, p. 100ff;
Vol. XXII, p. 77ff; Parshas Tazria, 5751;
Sefer HaSichos 5751, p. 491ff

Consummate Perfection and Superficial Flaws

Our Sages ask:1 “What is Mashiach’s name?” and reply “The leper of the House of Rebbi.”2 This is very difficult to understand. Mashiach will initiate the Redemption, and is associated with the pinnacle of life and vitality. How can his name be linked with leprosy (tzaraas), which is identified with death3 and exile?4

This difficulty can be resolved based on the statements of Likkutei Torah, which explain that a person affected by tzaraas will be:

A man of great stature, of consummate perfection….5 Although such a person’s conduct is desirable, and he has corrected everything,… it is still possible that on the flesh of his skin there will be lower levels on which evil has not been refined. This will result in physical signs on his flesh, in a way which transcends the natural order….6

Since the filth on the periphery of his garments has not been refined, therefore [blemishes] appear on his skin…. Moreover, these blemishes reflect very high levels, as indicated by the fact that they are not considered impure until they have been designated as such by a priest.

The passage implies that there are sublime spiritual influences which, because of the lack of appropriate vessels (as evidenced by the “filth on the periphery”), can produce negative effects. For when powerful energy is released without being harnessed, it can cause injury. This is the reason for the tzaraas with which Mashiach is afflicted.

Mashiach’s Burden

The Jewish people as a whole are compared to a human body. This applies within every generation, and also to the entire nation throughout history.7 All Jews those of the past, present, and future are part of a single organic whole.

Since good is eternal, while evil is only temporary,8 our people’s spiritual level has been constantly advancing. A vast reservoir of good has been filling up over the centuries. The Jewish people as they exist in ikvesa diMeshicha, the age when Mashiach’s approaching footsteps can be heard, have attained the level of perfection mentioned in Likkutei Torah.

Nevertheless, there are still blotches of evil “on the periphery,” for the world is still scarred by injustice and strife. And thus the light of redemption cannot yet become manifest; this is reflected in the leprous blemishes which are visited on Mashiach himself. For as the prophet states:9 “He has borne our sicknesses and endured our pain… with blemishes, smitten of G-d, and afflicted.” Mashiach endures suffering, not for his own sake, but for the Jewish people as a whole.

Positive Import

There is still a difficulty. Although the above passage explains why Mashiach must endure suffering, it does not show why that suffering is identified with Mashiach. Mashiach’s name who he is should be positive.

This difficulty can also be resolved on the basis of the passage from Likkutei Torah cited previously. For that passage explains that leprous blemishes reflect “very high levels,” their source being transcendent spiritual light10 that are associated with Mashiach. Nevertheless, for this light to be expressed in a positive manner, suitable vessels are required.

Mashiach’s suffering will bring about a final refinement in the world at large, making it a fit vessel for the revelation of its transcendent potential. Since this revelation lies at the heart of the Era of the Redemption, the catalyst necessary to bring it about is therefore associated with Mashiach’s name.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

The 1750s saw the rise of a fringe sect of Judaism led by the infamous Jacob Frank. The Frankist, as they were commonly called, were the spiritual descendents of Shabtai Tzvi, and like his predecessor, Frank claimed to be the Messiah and sought to create a religion that would incorporate both Judaism and Christianity. Both chassidic and Talmudist rabbis fought hard to put an end to the spreading influence of the heretical Frankists. In 5519 (1759), the Besht was chosen to be one of three delegates representing the rabbis in a highly publicized debate with the Frankists in Lemberg. Soon after the debate, thousands of Frankists underwent baptism to demonstrate their loyalty to Christianity. While many prominent Jewish figures felt relieved by the baptisms, because this clearly demonstrated the Frankists' cut with traditional Judaism, the Baal Shem Tov was deeply saddened by the move. "As long as a diseased limb is connected to the body, there is hope that it may be saved; but once amputated, it is gone, and there is no hope," the Besht lamented. It is said that the distress caused to the Baal Shem Tov by his ordeal with the Frankists ultimately led to his death.
http://m.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1208507/jewish/Biography.htm

[shai77]

This is some retarded nonsense.    Just like the frankists, trying to justify your evil behavior with twisted "philosophies" that don't make any sense.

I knew you had to be harboring some twisted delusions if you were defending shabtai tzvi.  Next you'll defend Hitler.

Actually, yes. I listened to a 13 hour audio about the life of Hitler to really try to learn about this character who defined the 20'th century and in many ways my life and he actually had a few good characteristics. Who is wise? He who learns from everybody.

I wouldn't want to be one of his victims and I probably wouldn't fit in with his crowd but the he did have some taste in music and some ideas about art and culture. Mass murder aside, some of his criticisms about the music and art of the day are in fact quite funny.

I think he felt strongly about what his national culture should be and did something about it and he had experienced war so he wasn't too afraid of blood and guts. He was a cultural warrior brutally serious. If I could I might like to do some similar things to what hitler did; only the part about taking over a country and dictating or at least having a strong say about the direction of art and culture; basically just get some friends together who can shoot straight and who like your ideas on art and start intimidating the competition...It seems like a realistic viewpoint on politics and getting things done.

I am of the opinion that if he ever heard a Temple orchestra, he never would have touched the Jews. Hitler was a music fanatic, a jilted artist and that in my opinion is the major tragedy of the exile; the soul of music.

In addition, Hitler hated Christianity and sought to eradicate it; he saw through the falsehood and suicidal advice contained in the 'NT'. To accomplish this feat he was willing to take drastic actions. In this way he was not the smiling 'compassionate' enemy trying to destroy the soul through deceit but rather a straight power type. I find this perhaps more respectable in some ways.

Some Jews who go to beach on sabbath may talk about how evil hitler was but they aren't coming to honest terms with the dictates of the Torah, their own religion which would condemn them to hell for floating in a raft on the sabbath.

In my opinion the Holy Temple is about music and it would require near dictatorial powers to restore it.

The nuremberg laws sounded extremely racist but let's face it; in Judaism not letting 'goyim' touch wine and all that stuff has racial overtones of it's own;

The wording in Talmudic Judaism can sound fanatically supremacist to outsiders; even if that is not the intent; I've tried to look at it objectively and as hard as it is I came to that conclusion. It's part of the reason I'm a hebrew satanist; If Israelites were in a diaspora and had to print materials like that to keep their traditions going it was likely going to cause a backlash at some point. So it was sort of a catch-22 God had put them in, a very difficult situation that mortals were likely to fail;  Hebrew Satanism posits that God exists, but maybe he's not always that good. I would like to be proven wrong but until that time I am a hebrew satanist.

[shai77]

KWRBT have you read what he wrotes ? He says he would follow Moses, great Bar Kochba if he was here today! Sometimes you post comment you don't know why you write them!
Beside his poetry is great 

Thank you. Yes i would like to follow Moses in the physical world. It is quite different to follow directions of a character from 3,000 years ago than actually being there. The thing about Moses that is exceptional is that he got to use every bit of his energy in service to God. There are not many people like that so in that way he was extremely lucky;

[shai77]

We camped in the desert
which was vast and dry
some Israelites got thirsty
and started to cry

The voice told me to speak to a rock for water
I tried to be calm but my anger got hotter

You rebels you bastards
is it ever enough!
Wait a little, do it be tough

And with that I smashed the rock, hit it hard with my staff
The water did flow but I incurred God's wrath

From that day on, the day my rage got out of hand
I was told I would not be entering
the good promised land

I pleaded and begged
and prayed and cried
as a bird as a bug
as a dog as a fly

But no the Lord's decision was made
He said You've done enough mitzvahs already don't worry you'll be paid
I'd lived a good life and had my share of lovers and kills
and soon would be buried somewhere up in the hills

I'd had a good life and made a huge contribution to culture
and soon would be resting in a hidden sepulcher

But before I left I had to pass the torch
to my disciple Joshua who was always
hanging out on my army tent porch

I gave him instructions and he listened well
Look Josh, these Jews they're stubborn
leading them is like hell

they'll try your patience hard
and put you to the test
try to be cool and do your very best

And some days later
It was time to leave
I gave my final speech about the path of life
and tried not to grieve

I left kind of quick, I hate long goodbyes
And I wandered into the hills with tears in my eyes
I thought back on my life and the things I'd done
And all the good and evil of man under the sun

And alas if you want to know now how I honestly feel
I wonder if when God proposed to kill everyone and make a nation out of me and my family
If I should of said deal!


*****

And with thus concluded the life of Moses.
Beat em to death and dump the body.

If you would like to hear more rap poetry of Biblical figures do let me know.

[muman613]

Shai77,

Do you really believe that your satan has any power? Satan is nothing. It is completely foolish from a Jewish perspective to attribute any power to the evil. I really hope you are just saying this to be provocative because otherwise I cannot really trust you will act as a Jew should towards another. I deny that there is a seperate satan and believe fully the talmudic idea that the satan is really three entities, Satan is the angel of death, the yetzer hara, and the prosecutor on the day of judgement.

[muman613]

Hashem does only Good but the problem is that as mortals we don't have 'the big picture' and thus we don't see the good especially when suffering is involved. When we suffer, or when we are depressed, we feel an absence of Hashem from our world. It is this absence which creates the mystical darkness which kabbalah refers to. This darkness is often created by the klipah (container) which conceals our inner light.

Often bad things which happen to us are for a purpose. Sometimes we 'see the light' when we understand why we went through some particularly difficult test. When we don't see this light we experience the darkness, sometimes called the 'hidden face' because it happens when he hides his face (countenance) from us.

[muman613]

The following was posted in a discussion of 'why bad things happen to good people'...

http://www.torah.org/learning/issues/badgood.html

From Volume 1 Digest 10
From: Micha Berger <[email protected]>
Unfortunately, the A-lmighty gave me time to consider this question. Much of the week that my wife and I sat shiva for our daughter. "Why me?" crossed my mind alot. I mean, I may not be "good people", but surely I'm doing better than many people who haven't lived through such tragedy. Aren't I?

I reached a few conclusions:

1- The pasuk in Yeshayah that is euphamized into the text of the first brachah before the morning Shema reads:

Yotzeir or uvorei choshech
Who formed (yotzeir, from tzurah - image) light and created ex nihilo (see Rashi on Breishis 1:1, bara means yeish ma'ayin, creating something from nothing) darkness

Oseh shalom uvorei es hara (brachah reads: hakol)

Who does peace and created ex nihilo evil (brachah reads: the all, i.e. the universe).

But more to the point of our question, we see that the two dichotomies are compared; light is to darkness as peace is to evil. Both light and peace are briyos, creations ex nihilo, darkness and peace are derivatives.

A totally empty room is dark. Light is a substance, darkness is its absence. The implication of the pasuk is that peace too is the "substance", evil is merely the absence of peace, not an item iteself.

(BTW, this was my understanding of tzimtzum. In order to allow evil to exist the A-lmighty provides the appropriate absence of good.)

During shiva, this point was brought home to me on a very emotional level. The gift was that I had 3 healthy children (now 7, k"y). That is the miracle.

Left to itself the universe decays in obedience to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. The fact that we can live is the exception, the Divine intervention. Just because we take usually take this intervention for granted makes this point no less true.

2- R. Nachum Ish Gamzu used to say "gam zu litovah" (this too is for the best) when faced with calamity. His student, R. Akiva, would similarly say, "Kol da'avad rachmanah litav avad" (all that the All Merciful does, He does for the best). They believed that bad things don't happen to anyone -- bad or good people. Our problem may be in that we have a misunderstanding of what a "bad thing" is.

Back to the pasuk in Yeshayah... R. SR Hirsch considers the root of ra, evil, to be reish-ayin-ayin, to shatter. The root of shalom, peace, is shin-lamed-mem, whole. Perhaps this tells us something about the definition of "good". Being good, imitating the creator, is to be constructive; evil is -- by definition -- to be destructive.

It's interesting that light vs. dark is paralled to peace/wholeness/harmony vs. evil, and not good vs. evil. This may be due to a problem with how to define the word "tov", good. For humans, Judaism defines good behavior as imitatio D-ei, acting as G-d does. With reference to Hashem, however, that definition is tautological. Of course G-d is good, if "good" means to act like G-d.

Our problem is only because we have a definition of evil that is based on humanism. The American ethic is that good is anything "that makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone". This is the ethic of an era of instant gratification. It doesn't pursue building something for the future, to reach ultimate hights, it goes for happiness in the here-and-now. The distinction is obvious when we look at the difference between the Torah and humanistic ethics on what goes on between "two consenting adults". (This distinction is built into the systems' respective axioms: Torah, Divine in origin, takes the long view; humanism, because of the limitations of humans, can't.)

Evil never happens because everything is toward building, toward shaping oourselves to be receptacles for his goodness in the next world. This is why the gemara calls this world the "foyer of the palace." Our goal here is to get ready for the next world -- even if this means that we choose to avoid happiness, or even happiness is forcibly taken from us in the short run.

[muman613]

Do you really think that the satan would be granted the ability to destroy Hashems creation? That is ridiculous when you realize that life is a gift of kindness from Hashem. Even with our suffering it is better to live and struggle than to never exist at all. This is why it is essential (to understand my theology) to have faith in Hashems loving providence. There was no good reason for him to create the universe aside from his desire to have a people to show his kindness.

Regarding your concern about whether the nations feel that the talmud is racist is immaterial. Everything Jewish has been twisted to be used against us. The Talmud was edited to remove references which would offend our hosts in the exile. I do not worry about this because we know that their books contain a lot of antisemitic material besides. The concept of the nations hating us started from the day Abraham stood up for Hashem against Nimrod in Ur Chasdim. In every generation they will rise to kill us, and this has been shown to be true (not because it says it, but because the nations choose to hate us). Meanwhile our prophets say the day will come when the Jewish people are a light to the nations and the world will live in peace. Judaism does not teach superiority to the nations, rather the idea that our actions have a direct influence on the world around us and through the commandments we can elicit change in the natural world.

[shai77]

Shai77,

Do you really believe that your satan has any power? Satan is nothing. It is completely foolish from a Jewish perspective to attribute any power to the evil. I really hope you are just saying this to be provocative because otherwise I cannot really trust you will act as a Jew should towards another. I deny that there is a seperate satan and believe fully the talmudic idea that the satan is really three entities, Satan is the angel of death, the yetzer hara, and the prosecutor on the day of judgement.

I'm not sure.

[shai77]

I'm the hip hop messiah.
I have arrived to drink 40's, smoke blunts and judge the nations in my anger
my throne will be on the temple mount where I will sit with a beat box and bump old school hip hop
and all the world can come to pay me homage
with gifts of ivory, gold and virgins.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

^ Just spit my OE all over the place! 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Sometimes you seem very judgmental to me. This is a real Jew you are talking about. You should consider trying to follow the Torah some day. Our Holy Torah places a great deal of import on how a Jew treats his fellow, and sometimes you seem to be lacking in Ahavat Yisroel. I have rebuked you about this in the past and you have continued your way (which is fine by me because I accept you as a Jew who is only acting in the best way he knows). I seek to bring Jews back to Torah which is why I reach out to Jews and befriend them no matter where on the ladder of Jewish observance he or she is. This is because of the kindness which was bestowed on me from my Jewish community when I was far from Torah.

Indeed what he has said is wrong according to our beliefs. But what he said is a result of his environment and upbringing. We all must judge others in the context of their life experience.

I will bring Pirkie Avot... Chapter 2 Mishnah 4:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2011/jewish/Chapter-Two.htm

4. He would also say: Make that His will should be your will, so that He should make your will to be as His will. Nullify your will before His will, so that He should nullify the will of others before your will.

Hillel would say: Do not separate yourself from the community. Do not believe in yourself until the day you die. Do not judge your fellow until you have stood in his place. Do not say something that is not readily understood in the belief that it will ultimately be understood [or: Do not say something that ought not to be heard even in the strictest confidence, for ultimately it will be heard]. And do not say "When I free myself of my concerns, I will study,'' for perhaps you will never free yourself.

PS: I think he clarified he was being sarcastic when he suggested he worships Soton.

Lololol.  He said he worships satan.  That is not a fellow no matter how you parse it.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

PS: I think he clarified he was being sarcastic when he suggested he worships Soton.

You clearly did not read the rest of the thread before you attacked me.   Why would you react to my response without even bothering to read to find out what I'm responding to?  Makes no sense.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Actually, yes. I listened to a 13 hour audio about the life of Hitler to really try to learn about this character who defined the 20'th century and in many ways my life and he actually had a few good characteristics. Who is wise? He who learns from everybody.

I wouldn't want to be one of his victims and I probably wouldn't fit in with his crowd but the he did have some taste in music and some ideas about art and culture. Mass murder aside, some of his criticisms about the music and art of the day are in fact quite funny.

I think he felt strongly about what his national culture should be and did something about it and he had experienced war so he wasn't too afraid of blood and guts. He was a cultural warrior brutally serious. If I could I might like to do some similar things to what hitler did; only the part about taking over a country and dictating or at least having a strong say about the direction of art and culture; basically just get some friends together who can shoot straight and who like your ideas on art and start intimidating the competition...It seems like a realistic viewpoint on politics and getting things done.

I am of the opinion that if he ever heard a Temple orchestra, he never would have touched the Jews. Hitler was a music fanatic, a jilted artist and that in my opinion is the major tragedy of the exile; the soul of music.

In addition, Hitler hated Christianity and sought to eradicate it; he saw through the falsehood and suicidal advice contained in the 'NT'. To accomplish this feat he was willing to take drastic actions. In this way he was not the smiling 'compassionate' enemy trying to destroy the soul through deceit but rather a straight power type. I find this perhaps more respectable in some ways.

Some Jews who go to beach on sabbath may talk about how evil hitler was but they aren't coming to honest terms with the dictates of the Torah, their own religion which would condemn them to hell for floating in a raft on the sabbath.

In my opinion the Holy Temple is about music and it would require near dictatorial powers to restore it.

The nuremberg laws sounded extremely racist but let's face it; in Judaism not letting 'goyim' touch wine and all that stuff has racial overtones of it's own;

The wording in Talmudic Judaism can sound fanatically supremacist to outsiders; even if that is not the intent; I've tried to look at it objectively and as hard as it is I came to that conclusion. It's part of the reason I'm a hebrew satanist; If Israelites were in a diaspora and had to print materials like that to keep their traditions going it was likely going to cause a backlash at some point. So it was sort of a catch-22 God had put them in, a very difficult situation that mortals were likely to fail;  Hebrew Satanism posits that God exists, but maybe he's not always that good. I would like to be proven wrong but until that time I am a hebrew satanist.

Your love for hitler isn't quite as strong as your admiration for jacob frank and shabtai tzvi.  Careful, the white nationalists might revoke your membership.

[muman613]

KWRBT,

I have spoken and discussed issues with Shai and I still hold out hope for his return. I understand a bit more the reason he is the way he is. I do not agree with his statements. But I seek to try to examine the issue so he may alter his position... As it says in Pirkie Avot, "Know how to answer a heretic".

[shai77]

tzvi was a potential messiah in his early days, he just didn't state his position clearly or honestly enough about what he was after. Personally I think when he visited the sultan he might have offered to take one of his daughters or relatives
and in return pay him some of the proceeds from the temple revenues. He didn't really offer the sultan anything.
Personally I have met a pleasant young arab girl I would probably marry should the opportunity arise as an addition to my burgeoning harem.