Lisa, the greatest mod on JTF

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Everybody,

It bugs me a lot that Lisa is taking crap from everybody for banning an obvious troll (Chakma) who shouldn't have allowed to remain a member after his first post to begin with. He insulted all of us, especially Christians, and his deliberate distortions of Torah and promotion of idolatry are a terrible sin in either faith. Lisa made the obvious choice based on a member who was flaming left and right and whose comical interpretations of Torah only served to make Jews look bad.

Chakma613 was, most likely, the banned Adam613, based upon his screenname and a single-minded hatred for Lisa. As some of you know, I suspected that Adam613 was a Muslim whose goal was to stir up lots of trouble and say horrible things in order to paint all Jews as misogynist savages. His woman-hating views were very sincere (if he was a Muslim), but he pretended to be Jewish so as to not be banned and deceive JTF members and whip up lots of turmoil.

Have you all forgotten that Chaim constantly warns us about taqqiyah? Have you all forgotten his admonitions that those who defame the Talmud or come up with ridiculous interpretations of it are usually Nazis? I think there's an excellent chance that this Chakma individual, whose insane interpretations of Torah/Talmud were condemned by the vast majority of the forum, was a Nazi whose goal it was to make Judaism look evil and anti-Christian. What distresses me is that nobody thought of this obvious explanation and treated him with kid gloves even if they disagreed with him. His goal was to make Judaism look like a rabbi-worshipping, Christian-hating, misogynistic cult. I don't know if he was a Muslim Nazi or a white one, but it's irrelevant. He had "imposter" written all over him.

In conclusion, I just want to close by saying Lisa is the most sensible and rational leader in JTF right now, and does more for our forum than just about anybody. I want everybody who loves Lisa to respond and let her know how awesome she is.

Chaimfan

[ftf]

I appologise for question Lisa's decision.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Thank you.

[Dexter]

I agree C.F.

Great post as allways .

[jdl4ever]

I really wanted to ban him last week, but held off so thanks Lisa for banning him already.  He always made comical remarks pretending he was a learned Jew.  He also insulted Chaim several times and insulted R' Kahane as well.  I agree he was some sort of troll. 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I think he was a Nazi (of some sort), and quite likely Adam613.

[Lisa]

He always made comical remarks pretending he was a learned Jew.  He also insulted Chaim several times and insulted R' Kahane as well.  I agree he was some sort of troll.

Thanks for your support everyone.  I'd like to think I'm pretty calm and fair, but tonight was the last straw. 

Jdlforever, what did he say to insult Chaim and Rabbi Kahane?  And where?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Chakma was a great poster, he shouldnt have been baned. When I see his posts he writes intelligintly and brings Torah sources, why cant you allow him to stay?

[Lisa]

Tsvi, read through Chaimfan's polygamy thread, my thread on Rabbi Ovadia Yossef and the recent one on Torah and Christianity. 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Chakma was a great poster, he shouldnt have been baned. When I see his posts he writes intelligintly and brings Torah sources, why cant you allow him to stay?

He distorted and caricatured Torah. He was either very stupid or a Nazi.

[OdKahaneChai]

Chakma was a great poster, he shouldnt have been baned. When I see his posts he writes intelligintly and brings Torah sources, why cant you allow him to stay?

He distorted and caricatured Torah. He was either very stupid or a Nazi.

I'm being completely objective here - when did he distort Torah?

[jdl4ever]

When didn't he distort Torah?  Look at his posts for G-d's sake.

[Shlomo]

Chakma was not Adam.

Lisa did the right thing. He broke the rules of the forum and was warned many times. I don't want to hear another negative word towards Lisa on this matter.

All of our moderators are wonderful and volunteer their time to help JTF without anything in return. I am beyond words in my gratitude to them.

[raiseyourfist]

Lisa is great in every sense of the word..

one of the best moderators anywhere on the net..

Resourceful, dynamic and sensible are words that i would describe Lisa because she really is a righteous person

G-d bless you Lisa

[Lisa]

Thank you for the kind words, Raise Your Fist.  And I'm glad you decided to stay.

[mord]

Yes Lisa he's an obvious jerk he wanted me to link to him on myspace so i did when he was banned he diconnected probably a fagel

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Chakma was a great poster, he shouldnt have been baned. When I see his posts he writes intelligintly and brings Torah sources, why cant you allow him to stay?

He distorted and caricatured Torah. He was either very stupid or a Nazi.

no offense how would you know? not to be rude but you arent even Jewish (and not Religious), how would you have a clue about Torah and Judaism.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Lisa can please specify which specific post he has made to offend you? I really dont think you were fair, and C.F. why do you attack anyone who you dont agree with and automatically accuse them of not being Jewish and being a nazi or a muslim? you did the same with me at a point. I really think you should calm down and think about the proper things to write, if not for others at least for yourself.

[Lisa]

Tzvi, I am pasting here two of his offensive posts.  But please note, this does not include his posts yesterday where he tried starting a fight between the Jews and Christians on the Torah and Christianity thread

Chakma responding to my post on the polygamy thread, and saying I am not entitled to an opinion:

I'm sorry, but while these poofs make sense to you, we do not learn out new ideas from pasukim(verses), it is not part of our biblical exegesis. We believe that the entire Torah, even what the commentators say, was all given by G-d to the Jews at sinai, therefore, we do not add our own "chidushim" or new ideas. If there's something in the meforshim(commentators) or in the Talmud, then you may of course bring it up to assert your point, however drawing your OWN conclusions based on the language of an ENGLISH translation of Torah is very dangerous, incorrect, and not in sync with the kosher way of learning torah. Even the greatest rabbis do not learn new things out from verses that are not stated in one way or another by a  midrash, gemara, mishnah, braita, etc..

Chakma613 on the Rabbi Ovadia Yossef thread responding to Jeffguys suggestion that he show me more respect.  First is Jeffguy's comment:

Please, let's be respectful to Lisa. She is a global moderator and she is Jewish.

While I happen to agree with most of the things you say (for example, I think that criticizing Rabbi Ovadia Yossef is dangerous and will turn a lot of people off to our movement), please handle debates in a respectful manner. I happen to believe in reincarnation but I do not hold malice towards her because she has a disagreement.

We have to have unity if we are going to become an effective mass movement. This type of debate can be very good.

Then here's Chakma's response to Jeffguy's request:

I respect those who respect the sages, and gedolim, I see no reason to have respect for a person promoting this fringe nonsense about R'ovadia's wrongfulness.  Anyway, the type of reincarnation that Jews hold to be true has little to do with the actual person coming back, but rather, as whatis known as a gilgul shavua. I do not hold malice as you say because Lisa and I disagree, it is the way in which she presents her opinions as facts that bothers me, she gives me the impression that it's her way or no way, and she seems to not want to listen to torah opinions(see the thread on polygamy when she said something to the effect that her sentiment was her opinion and not the torah's, i was greatly troubled by that)

Now let me ask you, Tzvi, if you or I were to go on a forum and say openly that we have no intention of showing the moderators any respect, what do you think would happen to us?  Do you think the moderators would tolerate such behavior?  We would rightfully be banned. 

I am also told by Jdlforever that he has made comments criticizing Chaim and Rabbi Kahane. 

But as I told Kahaneloyalist in a private message, I am fair.  If Chakma613 sincerely wants to come back and be a helpful person to this movement, let him send an email to [email protected] apologizing to me and Chaim and Rabbi Kahane, and also promising that he won't say things to cause friction between the Jews and Christians. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Lisa you have to understand that it hurts people (including me) reading negative and insulting things against our Rabbis. What Rav Ovadia Yosef has written and said is a lot of times greatly taken out of place and many times misunderstood by people who dont know enough Torah. About the people who have died (HYD) being gilgulim is a well known spoken thing of. The job of Rabbis is to teach and warn the public about these things in order to get us to do Tishuva. Also the media distortes a lot of things and its hard to tell what was really said, which context was it in, etc. 
 im sorry but if he disagrees with you and has a valid Torah opinion why isnt he allowed to state it?


"Now let me ask you, Tzvi, if you or I were to go on a forum and say openly that we have no intention of showing the moderators any respect, what do you think would happen to us?  Do you think the moderators would tolerate such behavior?  We would rightfully be banned."

  Did he curse at you? He just said that he wouldnt have respect for someone who would wrongfully curse a Rabbi.

[Lisa]

Tsvi, most people here do not consider Rabbi Ovadia Yossef, "their" rabbi.  Therefore, they will not always agree with his statements or his positions.  And that's their prerogative.  They are in no way whatsoever preventing you from following his teachings as you see fit.  Furthermore, JTF is not a politically correct organization.  In the past, Chaim nicknamed him Ovadia Kessef, and called him other not so nice names as well. 

So frankly, I fail to see how expressing my disagreement with someone who blames the victims (in this case Israeli soldiers and the 6 million Jews murdered by the Nazis) for their own deaths could be remotely construed as an insult.  It was my own opinion -- nothing more and nothing less.  Now are you also going to say that people here who share Chaim's views on this matter are not entitled to their opinions?  If so, then I don't think your problem is with me, but with Chaim.

And finally, I have never EVER cursed your rabbi.  So don't even think to use that as an excuse to defend Chakma from saying he will never show me respect. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

So frankly, I fail to see how expressing my disagreement with someone who blames the victims (in this case Israeli soldiers and the 6 million Jews murdered by the Nazis) for their own deaths could be remotely construed as an insult.  It was my own opinion -- nothing more and nothing less.  Now are you also going to say that people here who share Chaim's views on this matter are not entitled to their opinions?  If so, then I don't think your problem is with me, but with Chaim.

First of all it was an article of what he said and not something directly, the evil media allways takes these statements out of context. And yes it was an insult towards the Rabbi by the words and tone you used in making the thread, it was not a constructive thread, but only made to bash the Rabbi. 
 As far as him saying that he will not respect you, - he only said that he wont, he didnt curse at you directly, and anyway just becuase you got a little power doesant mean you have to abuse it by banning a user who had a disagreement and argument with you. I think that someone not involved should judge it- for Example Jimmy- let him see the thread and do whats needed- someone (anyone) who is in an argument cant be objective.
  He was a great poster who has brought a lot of Torah and proper understanding in this form, if you ban him then you are sinning and cousing others to sin.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Tzvi, it is really disturbing me that you are taking so very much time and energy to defend a troll who caricatured Jewish beliefs and likely was not even Jewish. Chaim praises you frequently on Ask JTF, and even DownwithIslam and I backed off of you and have been giving you a chance for weeks.

Was this in vain?

Lisa is sinning by disagreeing with his Torah and banning him? Are you freaking serious? 

Are you in the same camp as Dominater96? You have been making exactly the same kinds of arguments he has in your last few posts here.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Tzvi, it is really disturbing me that you are taking so very much time and energy to defend a troll who caricatured Jewish beliefs likely was not even Jewish. Chaim praises you frequently on Ask JTF, and even DownwithIslam and I backed off of you and have been giving you a chance for weeks.

Was this in vain?

Are you in the same camp as Dominater96?

he is a great guy, believe me. what does caricatured mean? I think you mean distort? whateva, I havent seen any post of his that said hes against Judaism. He is Jewish, who wants to spread Judaism to Jews. I see how he was hurt from seeing a Rabbi be degraded, unfortunatly it is wayy to common. Can their be an agreement here of please lets not have debates about Rabbis. even if someone is 95% right and another 5 % is a distortion, the fact that a Torah scolar is insulted is a very grave sin, and to remain silent when reading it is also a very great sin. Lets just completly not comment on what the Rabbis do.
(its also brought in the Torah Of Rabbi Nachman of what Tzaddikim do sometimes to making things look the opposite etc. also about the arguments of Tzaddikim, people like us who arent on the level of these Tzaddikim should not comment on any of this becuase we will for sure stumble.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Like I said, you are saying the exact same things as Dominater. An infallible Torah Scholar has been defamed, yadda yadda yadda.

Lisa and I both worked very hard to avoid insulting Rabbi Ovadia Yosef. Our exact words were "gaffe", "mistake", "misjudgment", etc. I can assure you that Chaim would even say that HaRav Meir Kahane (zt"l) did gaffes and blunders at times.

You consider it to be sinning to say that Ovadia Yosef has made "mistakes"? Please.