JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: White Israelite on September 07, 2010, 07:16:47 AM
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http://www.thinq.co.uk/2010/9/7/pirate-bay-down-police-swoop-across-europe/
UPDATE, 14:02 GMT: Pirate Bay site now back online in UK, though torrent trackers appear not to be working. Further news as soon as it's available.
Torrent-tracking site The Pirate Bay is currently unavailable as reports come in of co-ordinated police raids against file sharers across Europe.
Police in up to 14 countries carried out raids against suspected file-sharing servers this morning.
According to file-sharing news site TorrentFreak, the bulk of police action seems to have taken place in Sweden.
Swedish Internet service provider ISP, which hosts both The Pirate Bay and whistle-blowing site WikiLeaks, earlier denied rumours of a police raid, saying that officers had visited them to ask questions over two suspect IP addresses, and that no computers or other goods had been seized.
Swedish Prosecutor Frederick Ingblad confirmed to Swedish newspaper Expressen that WikiLeaks was not involved in the current action.
"At 9:00 this morning, five policemen were here," PRQ director Mikael Viberg said. "They were interested in who was using two IP addresses from 2009 and onwards.
"We have no records of our clients but we're handing over the e-mail addresses for those behind the IPs. However, it's rare that our clients have mail addresses that are traceable."
It appears that a number of other locations in Sweden have been the subject of police action, including Stockholm, Malmö, Umeå university and Eskilstuna.
Four individuals are said to be being questioned on suspicion of breaching copyright law. Servers and computers are reported to have been seized.
Simultaneous raids are also said to have been carried out in The Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Germany, Great Britain, the Czech Republic and Hungary.
The action, targeting the so-called 'Warez Scene', is said to have been in planning for two years, and is believed to have taken place at the request of Belgian authorities.
We'll keep you updated as further details emerge.
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What can I say, the multinational recording industry has almost as much money as the oil sheiks. :o ::)
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The recording industry can go to hell. I certainly don't want that junk they produce.
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I hope that they'll be able to come back up and functional soon. It's really disgusting how multinational corporations use their profits to do evil things. I don't see anything wrong in making them a bit less profitable. Especially when most of their films have evil content that you wouldn't want to support. Sometimes you don't realize how morally bad a movie is until you've already paid for it.
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I thought Piratebay moved its servers offshore.
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Theft is Theft no matter how you rationalize it...
I am 100% against theft of movies software or any other WAREZ these criminals are involved in...
I am ashamed that many here consider stealing to be acceptable. If you don't like the movies don't watch them, but why would you steal them if you don't like the content very much? You are fooling only yourself if you think that you are not involved with the sin of theft when you copy movies and software... Anyone who is involved with trafficking in stolen property should do time in prison.
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The recording industry can go to hell. I certainly don't want that junk they produce.
Then why would you care that piratesbay is down? Only those who are involved with theft of property would be concerned...
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http://cristgaming.com/pirate.swf
(seizure warning) lol
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The recording industry can go to hell. I certainly don't want that junk they produce.
Then why would you care that piratesbay is down? Only those who are involved with theft of property would be concerned...
I didn't say anything about piratebay.
I said the recording ind. is crap.
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Theft is Theft no matter how you rationalize it...
I am 100% against theft of movies software or any other WAREZ these criminals are involved in...
I am ashamed that many here consider stealing to be acceptable. If you don't like the movies don't watch them, but why would you steal them if you don't like the content very much? You are fooling only yourself if you think that you are not involved with the sin of theft when you copy movies and software... Anyone who is involved with trafficking in stolen property should do time in prison.
I hardly consider a kid clicking the download button for the latest spiderman movie as serious as someone who was involved in murder, rape, or breaking into a persons home.
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Theft is Theft no matter how you rationalize it...
I am 100% against theft of movies software or any other WAREZ these criminals are involved in...
I am ashamed that many here consider stealing to be acceptable. If you don't like the movies don't watch them, but why would you steal them if you don't like the content very much? You are fooling only yourself if you think that you are not involved with the sin of theft when you copy movies and software... Anyone who is involved with trafficking in stolen property should do time in prison.
I hardly consider a kid clicking the download button for the latest spiderman movie as serious as someone who was involved in murder, rape, or breaking into a persons home.
A Jew looks at the Ten Sayings {Asirat HaDibrot} and says that he keeps the mitzvot not because it is right or wrong, but because the Torah instructs us to.
One lesson to learn from the story of Noach and the Ark is that one of the primary reasons the world was destroyed was because of the rampant theft which the generation engaged in. People would not steal valuable things, many people would steal low-value things. Because of this wickedness Hashem decided to wipe all animal life off the planet, except for those which Noach took with him on board the Tevah.
http://www.thirdtemple.com/NoahsLaws.html
Do not steal
Theft is the broadest category with the most intricacy of all Seven Laws. The prohibition of theft is equally applicable to men and women in every aspect, detail and category. Theft is punishable regardless of whether the act was secretive or public. The courts will deal with revealed, known lawbreakers. Secretive theft will ultimately be punished by the Hand of Heaven. Stealing includes any amount of money or material goods, large or small, even the insignificant. Intellectual property such as music, books, formulas, programs and photographs is owned by the copyright, trademark or patent holder. Kidnapping is a form of theft as is rape or seduction. False weights and measures, overcharging, misrepresentation and lying are all forms of stealing. A dispute or the injuring of another person carries a liability that must be paid. Trespassing is a form of theft as well as the moving of landmarks on property. The withholding of wages that come due to a worker according to agreed upon terms is a form of theft as well as the failure to return a borrowed object. Dealing in stolen property falls into this category. An insidious form of theft is pollution and environmental destruction as well as quality of life issues. This includes the damaging of air, water, sight (offensive eyesores) and sound (decibel increases). Toxic chemical and/or radioactive level increases in the environment is a form of theft and may lead to the killing and/or damaging the health and well-being of the resident population.
http://www.shemayisrael.com/Parasha/kahn/archives/noach67.htm
Corrupt behaviour
Besides continuing to further develop idol worship, these ten generations fell further and further into immorality and dishonesty. There was neither respect for other people's wives or for their possessions. As it says in the beginning of this week's Torah portion (Bereishis 6:11): "And the Earth had become corrupt before G'd and the Earth became full of robbery." Earlier it says, (Bereishis 6:2): "And the sons of the rulers saw the daughters of man that they were good [looking], and they took for themselves wives from whoever they chose." Rashi quotes the Midrash Rabba (26:5) that this refers to the conduct of the sons of the princes and the judges who abused their power and even snatched away young brides when they were all dressed up on the way to their weddings. Rashi further explains that their level of indecent behaviour was to such an extent that they would not refrain from taking other people's wives as partners. The Midrash (ibid 26:9) says that they even made official marriage contracts not only between the same gender, but even between humans and animals. In similar ways, they would steal and rob from each other, thus undermining the whole basis of a lawful society. At this point, G'd decided that mankind had lost its right to continue to exist. As it says, (Bereishis 6:12-13): "And G'd saw the Earth, and behold it had become corrupted, for all flesh had corrupted its way upon the Earth. And G'd said to Noah, 'The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the Earth has become filled with robbery …'"
One more:
http://www.ou.org/torah/tt/5765/balak65/print.htm
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As a consequence of this perversion of monotheism, mankind became debased physically, spiritually and morally. "The Torah (5:1-3) says of Seth and of Enosh that they were created in the likeness of Adam, who was created like the image of G-d, whereas of the following generation there is no such reference. In the days of Enosh, the mountains became rocky [Adam and Chava had disturbed the natural equilibrium that existed in nature, so nature became an adversary that had to battled against] and men had the appearance of monkeys and became wild horsemen [actually the phrase used was centaurs, half horse and half man, to denote their fierceness; uncivilized and warlike, replacing the peace of Eden]. Disease appeared in the world [Adam was created in Divine Wisdom, perfect in every way, now after Enosh by their idolatry they caused the environment to become impure and hazardous to their health; that was expressed in the gradual shortening of human lives. This comment by Ramban, Abarbanel and Radak offers a different view than the one often held that their years were measured differently than ours]. Rabbi Yitzchak taught that they who started to do harm to themselves by becoming idolaters, thus demeaning their humanity, ended up in worshiping and subjecting themselves to the strong and powerful men [The real source of moral democracy and freedom lies not in the elitist Greek cities, but in the Torah which sees all human beings as created in His image]" (B'reishit Rabba 23:6).
The teaching that idolatry must lead to oppression and immorality is the basis for understanding of what the generations leading to the Flood, were guilty. "Chazal teach us that the decree against that generation was only sealed when they indulged in theft. This is difficult to understand since we know that they were guilty of the three major sins - idolatry, sexual immorality and murder. However, when there is theft, the whole fabric of society begins to unravel and the other sins follow" (Shem MiShmuel). " The sons of the godly race saw the daughters of men, that they were faitr and they took themselves wives from wherever they chose" (B'reishit6:2). "The pious sons of Seth did not look from where the women were descended - the degenerate Cainites - and did not consider the types of mothers they would make for their children; therein lay their sin" (Rabbi S. R. Hirsch). The sons of the judges and the rulers, often called EloKim in the Tanach, who abused their power and their status and took these women by force (Ramban). Alternatively, the generations indulged in casual sex (Abarbanel).
There is a fascinating insight in the Midrash that sounds as though it was written today. When there had only been a few people on earth, there was plenty of space, water, land and natural resources for everyone. However, when the population multiplied, everybody became concerned that their quality of life would decline and that the resultant scarce resources would not suffice to support them all. Furthermore, as a result, inferior species would develop among the plants, the animals and the birds. So they legislated that only superior specimens could mate and in order to keep down general population growth they sought out non-procreative sex like homosexuality and bestiality thus perverting the whole creation. Then they started to steal from each other and when anyone opposed the thieves they simply killed them; idolatry, sexual immorality and bloodshed.
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Yo, ho, haul together,
hoist the colors high.
Heave ho,
thieves and beggars,
never shall we die.
The king and his men
stole the queen from her bed
and bound her in her Bones.
The seas be ours
and by the powers
where we will we'll roam.
Yo, ho, haul together,
hoist the colors high.
Heave ho, thieves and beggars,
never shall we die.
Some men have died
and some are alive
and others sail on the sea
– with the keys to the cage...
and the Devil to pay
we lay to Fiddler's Green!
The bell has been raised
from it's watery grave...
Do you hear it's sepulchral tone?
We are a call to all,
pay heed the squall
and turn your sail toward home!
Yo, ho, haul together,
hoist the colors high.
Heave ho, thieves and beggars,
never shall we die.
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Yo, ho, haul together,
hoist the colors high.
Heave ho,
thieves and beggars,
never shall we die.
The king and his men
stole the queen from her bed
and bound her in her Bones.
The seas be ours
and by the powers
where we will we'll roam.
Yo, ho, haul together,
hoist the colors high.
Heave ho, thieves and beggars,
never shall we die.
Some men have died
and some are alive
and others sail on the sea
– with the keys to the cage...
and the Devil to pay
we lay to Fiddler's Green!
The bell has been raised
from it's watery grave...
Do you hear it's sepulchral tone?
We are a call to all,
pay heed the squall
and turn your sail toward home!
Yo, ho, haul together,
hoist the colors high.
Heave ho, thieves and beggars,
never shall we die.
Hate that movie
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The first one was the best. I did like the first one.
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The first one was the best. I did like the first one.
You remind me of Elizabeth
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The first one was the best. I did like the first one.
You remind me of Elizabeth
Is that good or bad? ;D
I promise I wouldn't set the rum on fire.
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Sorry I meant Lord Beckett
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Sorry I meant Lord Beckett
lol I'm not some gay guy :::D
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Sorry I meant Lord Beckett
lol I'm not some gay guy :::D
He be British cracka no?
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Sorry I meant Lord Beckett
lol I'm not some gay guy :::D
He be British cracka no?
I think almost every main character in that film is supposed to be.
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Sorry I meant Lord Beckett
lol I'm not some gay guy :::D
He be British cracka no?
I think almost every main character in that film is supposed to be.
what about Jack?
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Yeah he's not actually working as a privateer though, he's just an independent pirate. There's a big dose of fantasy in all three films though, to show the stereotypical pirates. It's not really meant to be realistic in any way.
This is one of my favorite fan vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_82p8yHFc0 :::D
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I don't watch Disney movies anymore and don't listen to German music but I suppose it's funny because Brits know how to kick each other's a**es.
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I don't watch Disney movies anymore and don't listen to German music but I suppose it's funny because Brits know how to kick each other's a**es.
I haven't seen too many British movies, but I have watched some of their tv shows like Keeping Up Appearances, which is hilarious. Britain made some good animal cartoons like Animals of Farthing Wood (for kids) and The Plague Dogs (for adults, about two escaped dogs from a lab). I always saw them as a friend of the USA so I don't see them unfavorably, but it won't stay that way for long if they allow the Muslims to take over.
I don't like what they have done in much of their history either.
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Don't you feel guilt towards your fellow Americans who were oppressed and killed by them?
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Don't you feel guilt towards your fellow Americans who were oppressed and killed by them?
Are you talking about the Revolutionary War? Nobody today was alive back then!
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Are you talking about the Revolutionary War? Nobody today was alive back then!
As an American I expect you to see the founders of your nations as your fellow Americans and honor them, despising their killers.
- a non-American
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Are you talking about the Revolutionary War? Nobody today was alive back then!
As an American I expect you to see the founders of your nations as your fellow Americans and honor them, despising their killers.
- a non-American
Of course I do but what does that have to do with England today?
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Are you talking about the Revolutionary War? Nobody today was alive back then!
As an American I expect you to see the founders of your nations as your fellow Americans and honor them, despising their killers.
- a non-American
Of course I do but what does that have to do with England today?
The same (lehavdil) the German murderers of yesterday have to do with their German children today.
If I was a Brit I'd laugh.
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Well WW2 is a lot closer in history to us than the American Revolutionary War, and the effects of it are still felt in the horrors that haunt people in their mind every day who had to go through it, the marks left on people's bodies, etc.
Something like the Holocaust was never part of a legitimate war. This wasn't one army against another. It was a deliberate rounding up of people that Hitler didn't like, to murder them and do horrible experiments on them, work them to death, starve them to death, let disease rage through the camps, shoot them, and murder them in gas chambers and burn the bodies in crematoria. That's not war, that's genocide.
When America wanted to break off and form its own country, that's bound to lead to war, and the people were willing to fight. England found out they couldn't keep up a foreign war so far away and so the Americans ended up winning. Of course there were horrible, bloody casualties, but that was the price the Americans were willing to pay to be independent and rule themselves. England in the Revolutionary War wasn't setting out to round up millions of people just to murder them in cold blood and/or torture them. The deaths were part of war.
What the Nazis did is just not comparable because it's so much more evil.
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I doubt sharing files is Halachically equal to theft, but it's wrong anyway. Besides, it is also forbidden due to Dina Damalchuta Dina (the Law of the Goverment is Law) which orders Jews to obey the Law of the State as far as it does not order to violate the Torah.
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Well WW2 is a lot closer in history to us than the American Revolutionary War, and the effects of it are still felt in the horrors that haunt people in their mind every day who had to go through it, the marks left on people's bodies, etc.
Something like the Holocaust was never part of a legitimate war. This wasn't one army against another. It was a deliberate rounding up of people that Hitler didn't like, to murder them and do horrible experiments on them, work them to death, starve them to death, let disease rage through the camps, shoot them, and murder them in gas chambers and burn the bodies in crematoria. That's not war, that's genocide.
When America wanted to break off and form its own country, that's bound to lead to war, and the people were willing to fight. England found out they couldn't keep up a foreign war so far away and so the Americans ended up winning. Of course there were horrible, bloody casualties, but that was the price the Americans were willing to pay to be independent and rule themselves. England in the Revolutionary War wasn't setting out to round up millions of people just to murder them in cold blood and/or torture them. The deaths were part of war.
What the Nazis did is just not comparable because it's so much more evil.
I predict you didn't understand me. I never compared the Holocaust to the American War of Independence - for the only thing that it can be compared
to it is the Destruction of the Temples, the war with the Amalekites, the Russian, Egyptian, Persian and Islamic exiles, the Crusades, the Soviet
persecution of Judaism and the reigns of the Assyrians and Romans in the Holy Land, etc - but nothing else. That's why I said Lehavdil - which means
"to differentiate", "to distinguish".
as a Jew, I consider every Jew murdered by others, whether in war or in a pogrom, in a personal clash or anything, to be the same. The blood of Anna Frank who was murdered by the German sub-human beasts equals the blood of Avraham "Yair" Stern who was murdered by the British sub-human imperialist thieves. How he was murdered mastters less for me - the fact that he was murdered is what really matters. The murderer, whoever he may be, whether he did that as a nation or as an individual, will be remembered forever, and I will not rest until the Lion will have his revenge.
I thought you feel the same towards Americans as I do for Jews. I guess I was wrong.
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I feel differently if someone is killed in a war than if someone is hunted down, tortured, and murdered in cold blood. They're both bad, but the latter one is much worse. I do think it's admirable to care for your own people and want to avenge them like you do.
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Unknown Soldier: "The same (lehavdil) the German murderers of yesterday have to do with their German children today. If I was a Brit I'd laugh.
Invalid comparison.
The British colonists who revolted against Britain were BRITISH SUBJECTS loyal to the Crown.
They had no desire to have to fight a war against their own fellow British brethren, and were part of a broad based mercantile venture established for mutual benefit.
They were not culturally, racially, or religiously different than those against whom they revolted and warred.
In stark contrast, the Germans of Hitler's Reich murdered millions of innocents - fellow citizens within their own country, and innocent foreigners outside their borders with whom they shared little, if anything, in common.
The German's behavior during WWII is something altogether different than if they had fought only against other Germans within their Empire over irreconcilable differences.
The Nazis clearly stated in advance their objective to commit genocide and enslave the globe under their rule.
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Re: "I don't watch Disney movies anymore and don't listen to German music ... "
That's what you think!
You listen to German music almost every day of your life, only you're ignorant to the fact.
Even Hawaiian music and Mexican music are German in origin.
The 'steel guitar' and the ukelele of the Hawaiian islands were both brought there by German missionaries.
The commonly heard street music of Mexicans, with their waltz and polka beats, accordions and horns, were all introduced there when Germany colonized Mexico.
The "thoroughly American" steel guitar sound of Texas swing and Nashville Country music?
That's right!
Introduced by German settlers!
Then there's the theme music from the classic film 2001: A Space Odyssey, and even the theme from the Winter Olympics - both entirely German and both composed by a Nazi official.
The Christmas Hymn "Silent Night: Holy Night" is a German composition, sung throughout the English speaking world.
Then there's Beethoven, Bach, Brahms, ...
And nowhere on the planet can you go without seeing a Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck image.
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I was also going to say he probably listens to a lot more German music than he'd like to admit to in films, on tv, etc. That also includes anything techno pretty much as they invented that too.
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Muman, on this issue I cannot agree with you. You are acting like the recording and film industries are honorable, hardworking businesses, when nothing could be further from the truth. We are talking here about the slime of the world that is responsible for brainwashing billions of human beings into believing that immorality is a great thing. Frankly if I had my way the heads of these corporations wouldn't just be whining about a few lost dollars, they'd be put on trial for treason and hanged.
Do you honestly believe that Torah would defend what they do? Would Torah say it's a sin to harm the pornography or narcotics industries? It just really seems like you are stretching here to make a defense of something that is indefensible.
Have you ever heard Chaim speak about the phenomenon of so-called "piracy"? If not, you should ask him on Ask JTF. My personal hope is that when Hayamin takes power, that Israel becomes a base for filesharing to take place free from the threat of any prosecution, in order to help to bring down the horrific entertainment industry.
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Muman, on this issue I cannot agree with you. You are acting like the recording and film industries are honorable, hardworking businesses, when nothing could be further from the truth. We are talking here about the slime of the world that is responsible for brainwashing billions of human beings into believing that immorality is a great thing. Frankly if I had my way the heads of these corporations wouldn't just be whining about a few lost dollars, they'd be put on trial for treason and hanged.
Do you honestly believe that Torah would defend what they do? Would Torah say it's a sin to harm the pornography or narcotics industries? It just really seems like you are stretching here to make a defense of something that is indefensible.
Have you ever heard Chaim speak about the phenomenon of so-called "piracy"? If not, you should ask him on Ask JTF. My personal hope is that when Hayamin takes power, that Israel becomes a base for filesharing to take place free from the threat of any prosecution, in order to help to bring down the horrific entertainment industry.
There is no justification for stealing another mans livelihood no matter how you justify it DBF. If there was no market for the product then there would be no product, simple as that. Nobody is forcing people to buy this. And the solution, as I and many others, we do not purchase this kind of entertainment.
But to justify sinning yourself because you think it is hurting the industry is plainly silly. Why would anyone want to pirate something they have no interest in listening to? Just to 'stick it to the man'? You are listening to drek because you think that somehow it will destroy the very industry you are listening to? Piracy makes no sense at all. People are stealing and thinking they are actually doing a mitzvah? Chas Veshalom!
No, you are stealing and you are guilty of theft. Stealing intellectual property is a crime, and should be prosecuted as such. I work hard in computer software and there are those who have stolen my work. Why should people be allowed to steal from my livelihood? You seem to support theft and you justify it.
As in the time of Noachs flood the theft of small things in private seem to be acceptable. Being honest and truthful are important signs of a wise person, a Torah scholar. Any form of theft, no matter how it is justified, is theft and should not be accepted.
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There is no justification for stealing another mans livelihood no matter how you justify it DBF. If there was no market for the product then there would be no product, simple as that. Nobody is forcing people to buy this. And the solution, as I and many others, we do not purchase this kind of entertainment.
But to justify sinning yourself because you think it is hurting the industry is plainly silly. Why would anyone want to pirate something they have no interest in listening to? Just to 'stick it to the man'? You are listening to drek because you think that somehow it will destroy the very industry you are listening to? Piracy makes no sense at all. People are stealing and thinking they are actually doing a mitzvah? Chas Veshalom!
No, you are stealing and you are guilty of theft. Stealing intellectual property is a crime, and should be prosecuted as such. I work hard in computer software and there are those who have stolen my work. Why should people be allowed to steal from my livelihood? You seem to support theft and you justify it.
As in the time of Noachs flood the theft of small things in private seem to be acceptable. Being honest and truthful are important signs of a wise person, a Torah scholar. Any form of theft, no matter how it is justified, is theft and should not be accepted.
Muman, I do not engage in any piracy whatsoever. Period. I do not recommend that religious people of any background do either. However, I can't say that I lose sleep at multibillionaires losing a small percentage of their ill-gotten profits. This is blood money. I am speaking of this as a global issue. I think we have a very fundamental difference in philosophy when it comes to corporate power. No offense, Muman, but you defend multinational corporations every time there is a debate about them at JTF--not just this time. I happen to feel differently, and so does Chaim. There is a difference between a man, or even a business, that is earning a living in this world and a colossus that is powerful enough to breach international borders and compel governments around the world into doing its will. Do you honestly think it is a good thing that the recording industry has every regime on earth in its pocket? Do you not think that such a pervasive power like that (or the oil industry) could use its clout to usher a worldwide pogrom against Jews if it wanted to?
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Theft is Theft no matter how you rationalize it...
I am 100% against theft of movies software or any other WAREZ these criminals are involved in...
I am ashamed that many here consider stealing to be acceptable. If you don't like the movies don't watch them, but why would you steal them if you don't like the content very much? You are fooling only yourself if you think that you are not involved with the sin of theft when you copy movies and software... Anyone who is involved with trafficking in stolen property should do time in prison.
I agree .... It really bothers me when I see people selling knock off copies of music and video Cd's or downloads.... It's counterfeiting plain and simple...
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I agree .... It really bothers me when I see people selling knock off copies of music and video Cd's or downloads.... It's counterfeiting plain and simple...
Pirate Bay is a filesharing operation. Nobody profits off of it. That being said, if somebody were to go around selling fake CDs of evil artists, I can't say that would bug me too much.
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Muman, on this issue I cannot agree with you. You are acting like the recording and film industries are honorable, hardworking businesses, when nothing could be further from the truth. We are talking here about the slime of the world that is responsible for brainwashing billions of human beings into believing that immorality is a great thing. Frankly if I had my way the heads of these corporations wouldn't just be whining about a few lost dollars, they'd be put on trial for treason and hanged.
Do you honestly believe that Torah would defend what they do? Would Torah say it's a sin to harm the pornography or narcotics industries? It just really seems like you are stretching here to make a defense of something that is indefensible.
Have you ever heard Chaim speak about the phenomenon of so-called "piracy"? If not, you should ask him on Ask JTF. My personal hope is that when Hayamin takes power, that Israel becomes a base for filesharing to take place free from the threat of any prosecution, in order to help to bring down the horrific entertainment industry.
There is no justification for stealing another mans livelihood no matter how you justify it DBF. If there was no market for the product then there would be no product, simple as that. Nobody is forcing people to buy this. And the solution, as I and many others, we do not purchase this kind of entertainment.
But to justify sinning yourself because you think it is hurting the industry is plainly silly. Why would anyone want to pirate something they have no interest in listening to? Just to 'stick it to the man'? You are listening to drek because you think that somehow it will destroy the very industry you are listening to? Piracy makes no sense at all. People are stealing and thinking they are actually doing a mitzvah? Chas Veshalom!
No, you are stealing and you are guilty of theft. Stealing intellectual property is a crime, and should be prosecuted as such. I work hard in computer software and there are those who have stolen my work. Why should people be allowed to steal from my livelihood? You seem to support theft and you justify it.
As in the time of Noachs flood the theft of small things in private seem to be acceptable. Being honest and truthful are important signs of a wise person, a Torah scholar. Any form of theft, no matter how it is justified, is theft and should not be accepted.
you get more time in prison downloading a movie that your not even stealing but rather making a copy of than if you were to go in the store and steal the dvd off the rack. Stealing = physically taking something from someones possession, downloading software is not taking anything.
How much money has the government stolen from us in taxes or how about all those dvd's I purchased and fell apart due to DVD rot or shoddy quality to begin with and the industry expects me to pay 50 dollars for a special edition version of the bluray? Why shouldn't I be able to record a movie on my DVR and watch it again? How about all the times we paid to go to a movie theatre to watch a movie and you have to keep paying for it? Seriously, I don't support the greed of the industry.
I guess in a rational world, we should be raiding 90 year old grandmas who download metallica on napster.
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you get more time in prison downloading a movie that your not even stealing but rather making a copy of than if you were to go in the store and steal the dvd off the rack. Stealing = physically taking something from someones possession, downloading software is not taking anything.
How much money has the government stolen from us in taxes or how about all those dvd's I purchased and fell apart due to DVD rot or shoddy quality to begin with and the industry expects me to pay 50 dollars for a special edition version of the bluray? Why shouldn't I be able to record a movie on my DVR and watch it again? How about all the times we paid to go to a movie theatre to watch a movie and you have to keep paying for it? Seriously, I don't support the greed of the industry.
I guess in a rational world, we should be raiding 90 year old grandmas who download metallica on napster.
Good post, I have nothing really to add.
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you get more time in prison downloading a movie that your not even stealing but rather making a copy of than if you were to go in the store and steal the dvd off the rack. Stealing = physically taking something from someones possession, downloading software is not taking anything.
How much money has the government stolen from us in taxes or how about all those dvd's I purchased and fell apart due to DVD rot or shoddy quality to begin with and the industry expects me to pay 50 dollars for a special edition version of the bluray? Why shouldn't I be able to record a movie on my DVR and watch it again? How about all the times we paid to go to a movie theatre to watch a movie and you have to keep paying for it? Seriously, I don't support the greed of the industry.
I guess in a rational world, we should be raiding 90 year old grandmas who download metallica on napster.
Good post, I have nothing really to add.
Sorry can't go along with it.... I won't say I never copied something from one place or another but it still does not make it justifiable... More so when money is changing hands.....If people are paying 50 bucks for one form of media or another its because thats what the market will sustain... Why should people with a product to sell be deprived of the profit due them... It's a slippery slope when people justify one form of theft verses another... I guess this is why society is so screwed up today.
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I see in the eternal battle of pirates versus ninjas, that Muman and CJD seem to be on the side of ninjas!
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I see in the eternal battle of pirates versus ninjas, that Muman and CJD seem to be on the side of ninjas!
(http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/funny-pictures-pirate-cat.jpg)
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That cat might've killed the bird the feather came from, it used to have a parrot on its shoulder, but it's a cat. :::D
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I see in the eternal battle of pirates versus ninjas, that Muman and CJD seem to be on the side of ninjas!
:laugh: :::D :laugh: :::D :laugh:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGyPuey-1Jw
8) 8) 8) 8)
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Feminem, Katy Perry, Lindsey Graham, and Tony Kushner are on the side of the pirates (at least the butt-pirates, anyway).
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Feminem, Katy Perry, Lindsey Graham, and Tony Kushner are on the side of the pirates (at least the butt-pirates, anyway).
Hahaha! Reminds me of the episode of South Park where Cartman says something along the lines of "don't say fags, it's offensive to butt pirates!"
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When someone downloads and makes copies for personal use without buying or renting the product, they do far more than simply "rip off the big corporate a-holes who've been ripping everyone off and therefore deserve it as payback".
The financial income earned by novelists, authors, writers, screenplay editors, actors, musicians, composers, producers, directors is either fully or partially derived from royalties earned according to law through the licensing of their art by major corporations specializing in the accounting and paying of artists' royalties.
That means that the very livelihoods of artists involved with music, theatre, film, literature, etc. are at stake, all the more so because these people are "the last ones on the list" when it comes time to actually be paid what they've earned.
When any creative work is "sold" / "distributed", etc., the licensing company secures the exclusive rights to gather, account for, and distribute the monies due all of their contracted artists for performances / publishing / royalties which must be paid for each and every live or recorded performance, sale, rental of an artist's work. This includes songs played on a jukebox or heard over a blaring sound system in a nightclub, live stadium shows, CD and vinyl sales, each and every video or DVD rented or purchased, streaming of YouTube and other file sharing websites, etc. etc...all over the entire world!
All involved with creating a film or CD or video or even a TV show sign long term contracts so that the licensing companies which they choose are to exclusively represent their claims to royalties and residuals (royalties paid for each and every re-run TV series / classic shows always shown repeatedly, etc...
As a matter of fact, very often the biggest stars and entertainers sign film contracts whereby they forgo monetary payment for their acting or composing, in exchange for "x" amount of the royalties off all future showings, sales, and rentals of their work.
So when you read about so and so signing a multi-million dollar film contract, more often than not half of that money is the estimated royalty earnings that they are expected to earn in the future from the repeat performances of their work.
If their film bombs at the box office....well ..... goodbye to their expected earnings.
So, the bottom line is that illegal copying/downloading is theft of another's legally earned incomes, because they worked very hard for many years to give the world their art for enjoyment, usually struggling for most of their life to attain some level of success and recognition, and then thanks to digital technology someone can simply take, copy, and repeatedly enjoy the work of other people without their ever being compensated so much as a penny.
The whole world is guilty here, but the next time you think about how easy it is to push "save" or "download and save", think about if you are really doing the correct thing because you will be depriving hundreds of honest workers of their incomes for the next ten to twenty years of their lives.
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Unknown Soldier: "The same (lehavdil) the German murderers of yesterday have to do with their German children today. If I was a Brit I'd laugh.
Invalid comparison.
The British colonists who revolted against Britain were BRITISH SUBJECTS loyal to the Crown.
They had no desire to have to fight a war against their own fellow British brethren, and were part of a broad based mercantile venture established for mutual benefit.
They were not culturally, racially, or religiously different than those against whom they revolted and warred.
In stark contrast, the Germans of Hitler's Reich murdered millions of innocents - fellow citizens within their own country, and innocent foreigners outside their borders with whom they shared little, if anything, in common.
The German's behavior during WWII is something altogether different than if they had fought only against other Germans within their Empire over irreconcilable differences.
The Nazis clearly stated in advance their objective to commit genocide and enslave the globe under their rule.
Have you read what you quoted?
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I was also going to say he probably listens to a lot more German music than he'd like to admit to in films, on tv, etc. That also includes anything techno pretty much as they invented that too.
1.) None of this crap. Only music I listen to is Mizrahi music. Techno is garbage (and so is Electro, Dance and hip hop).
2.) Don't have TV anymore and don't want to have one.
3.) Barely watch films. Good thing you reminded me to check if the sountrack is made by some Kraut unmenschlich composer before I watch it.
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Yeah because it would be just terrible if you heard any, so I'm glad I could help.
I imagine you walking down the street, and from a shop you hear a few strains of classical music. You fly into a rage! "Where is that Beethoven coming from!" Your face turns red, your eyes get veiny, your hands clench into fists. As the soothing sounds of Fur Elise play over the intercom, you go wild destroying the store until they make the music stop.
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Yeah because it would be just terrible if you heard any, so I'm glad I could help.
I imagine you walking down the street, and from a shop you hear a few strains of classical music. You fly into a rage! "Where is that Beethoven coming from!" Your face turns red, your eyes get veiny, your hands clench into fists. As the soothing sounds of Fur Elise play over the intercom, you go wild destroying the store until they make the music stop.
I wouldn't scream like a wolf if I had a guy with just more Melanin than I do sitting next to me and want to drive him out of his birth place just because of that.
Yea I admit I don't wanna hear so-called music my ancestors were hearing while being gassed into dust.
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PS: Welcome the warriors of Allah in their revenge against the Duestche sub-human European meat.
(http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/GermanyIslamic.gif)
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Yeah because it would be just terrible if you heard any, so I'm glad I could help.
I imagine you walking down the street, and from a shop you hear a few strains of classical music. You fly into a rage! "Where is that Beethoven coming from!" Your face turns red, your eyes get veiny, your hands clench into fists. As the soothing sounds of Fur Elise play over the intercom, you go wild destroying the store until they make the music stop.
I wouldn't scream like a wolf if I had a guy with just more Melanin than I do sitting next to me and want to drive him out of his birth place just because of that.
I don't understand what you mean here at all.
Yea I admit I don't wanna hear so-called music my ancestors were hearing while being gassed into dust.
I can understand Wagner but the others I don't think had anything to do with that. It's true the Nazis tried to claim Beethoven and other great composers after the fact but I don't think most of them were Nazis or extreme Jew haters. I respect the fact that you want to remain loyal to your people though but does this mean you have to cut yourself off from good things that come out of a culture? I don't like Muslims but I think some of the art they have made with geometric patterns is beautiful, and I like hummus.
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I don't understand what you mean here at all.
if Ruby be Black would Ruby get herself out of white country?
I can understand Wagner but the others I don't think had anything to do with that. It's true the Nazis tried to claim Beethoven and sother great composers after the fact but I don't think most of them were Nazis or extreme Jew haters. I respect the fact that you want to remain loyal to your people though but does this mean you have to cut yourself off from good things that come out of a culture? I don't like Muslims but I think some of the art they have made with geometric patterns is beautiful, and I like hummus.
National Socliasm rose from the German culture itself. Hitler's ideas were nothing new --- these were the ideas of the German masses,
of the intellectuals, people of culture and academy, and even its Jewry. What you're doing here is the same moronic excuses Leftists
are trying to make for non-Muslim Arabs - claiming original Arab culture had nothing to do with the monstrous religious of Islam. Beethoven,
Schumann and Strauss is part of this murderous culture. This so-called "progressive" and "modern" culture of genocide, racism, jealousy and
bigotry, the culture of Adolf Hitler, Martin Luther, Frederick Barbarossa, of the illegitimate offsprings of the barbaric Germanic hordes, this
culture brought the Holocaust, it wasn't hijacked by Nazis but brought them up to power.
For its despicable crimes against the Jewish people and G-D, Germany should first be boycotted and then eliminated, whether by us or by G-D's
Messengers, whoever they may be this time. Germany made Egypt and Assyria blush. A Jew who enjoys the work of the hands that slew
his ancestors like Muslim slay sheep, would have no problem having ancient Egyptian artworks in his house, enjoying the beauty of the
enslavers and murderers of our people. This forgiveness for Jewish blood and honor Americans like you suggest is the first reason America
will be eliminated, and no one will remember neither those who murdered the Jews of Europe nor the ones who had the chance to save them,
but refused to do so, enjoying the scene of the slayed Chosen.
Germans:
(http://rengga.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/adolf_hitler.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Martin_Luther_by_Lucas_Cranach_der_%C3%84ltere.jpeg/250px-Martin_Luther_by_Lucas_Cranach_der_%C3%84ltere.jpeg)
(http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/poli/images/Karl_Marx.jpg)
(http://www.tonypapard.info/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/friedrich-engels1.jpg)
(http://www.neocoregames.com/images/static/ScreenShotAA64_crusader_tn.jpg)
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I don't understand what you mean here at all.
if Ruby be Black would Ruby get herself out of white country?
Blacks to a certain degree have a right to be here since they were brought here against their will, but I do think that was a mistake. Also I wouldn't force them out, I would offer compensation for them to leave.
National Socliasm rose from the German culture itself. Hitler's ideas were nothing new --- these were the ideas of the German masses,
of the intellectuals, people of culture and academy, and even its Jewry. What you're doing here is the same moronic excuses Leftists
are trying to make for non-Muslim Arabs - claiming original Arab culture had nothing to do with the monstrous religious of Islam. Beethoven,
Schumann and Strauss is part of this murderous culture. This so-called "progressive" and "modern" culture of genocide, racism, jealousy and
bigotry, the culture of Adolf Hitler, Martin Luther, Frederick Barbarossa, of the illegitimate offsprings of the barbaric Germanic hordes, this
culture brought the Holocaust, it wasn't hijacked by Nazis but brought them up to power.
It was a very good place to live for Jews part of the time. Too good, really. Sort of like America today. Many American Jews will not go to Israel because life in America is too good. I think it was the same thing with Europe. Unfortunately any Gentile nation can turn against the Jews, and it might be true that all nations are destined to do so sooner or later.
For its despicable crimes against the Jewish people and G-D, Germany should first be boycotted and then eliminated, whether by us or by G-D's
Messengers, whoever they may be this time. Germany made Egypt and Assyria blush. A Jew who enjoys the work of the hands that slew
his ancestors like Muslim slay sheep, would have no problem having ancient Egyptian artworks in his house, enjoying the beauty of the
enslavers and murderers of our people. This forgiveness for Jewish blood and honor Americans like you suggest is the first reason America
will be eliminated, and no one will remember neither those who murdered the Jews of Europe nor the ones who had the chance to save them,
but refused to do so, enjoying the scene of the slayed Chosen.
My point is that there are good and bad things that come out of every culture. There are also good and bad people in most of them. I agree with you that Europe in general and Germany/Austria in particular deserved to be punished for what they did. Some of it happened immediately after the War when millions of Europeans starved to death. The spread of Communism was also a punishment. I believe this is also happening now with the Muslim invasion of Europe. However having several more Muslim countries is not good for Israel either and it's good that people like Geert Wilders from the Netherlands are speaking out against the destruction of Europe.
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Re: "Have you read what you quoted? "
Read it?
Why would I want to read it?
Better just to make something up and throw it into a forum, don't you think?
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Blacks to a certain degree have a right to be here since they were brought here against their will, but I do think that was a mistake. Also I wouldn't force them out, I would offer compensation for them to leave.
In other words you wanted them out simply because they ain't white, even if they are decent.
It was a very good place to live for Jews part of the time. Too good, really. Sort of like America today. Many American Jews will not go to Israel because life in America is too good. I think it was the same thing with Europe. Unfortunately any Gentile nation can turn against the Jews, and it might be true that all nations are destined to do so sooner or later.
(http://www.hometeamsonline.com/photos/htosports/BECRUSADERWRESTLING/Empire_Crusader.jpg)
Is this the Germany you are talking about?
- The Germans murdered at least 200,000 Jews during the Crusades in a month or 2 (1096).
- The Germans murdered at least 20,000 Jews in Retingen blaming for descegrating the "holy bread" of the Roman loving son of a Roman soldier Jeebus (1298).
- During the Black Death, the inferior race of rats known as Germans, which was too dumb and primitive to understand the true cause of the plague, blamed the Jews for the plague and slaughtered tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of Jews, virtually causing the elimination of Western European Jewry until the end of the century.
And this is only a partial list. The most "moderate" hatred the Reich had for Jews was during the time of Heine and Marx, when Jews had to betray the Magen David for the Cross in order to gain high education and be lawyers, teachers, etc. Of course Jews shouldn't have been doing this in the first place because it wasn't their country, but the hatred is obvious. The Reform movement didn't rise up from nothing - it was a movement of cowards, of dogs, who were so afraid of the hatred of the Fritz that they decided to surrender.
My point is that there are good and bad things that come out of every culture. There are also good and bad people in most of them. I agree with you that Europe in general and Germany/Austria in particular deserved to be punished for what they did. Some of it happened immediately after the War when millions of Europeans starved to death. The spread of Communism was also a punishment. I believe this is also happening now with the Muslim invasion of Europe. However having several more Muslim countries is not good for Israel either and it's good that people like Geert Wilders from the Netherlands are speaking out against the destruction of Europe.
I like Islam's monotheism or as they call it - Tawhid, I like Shintoism's self-decipline, self-respect and love of war, but it doesn't mean I should enjoy Islamic literature, simply because the writers belong to a culture that sworn to eliminate my people in the most brutal ways imagineable for human mind. There's no difference between a Jew who enjoys the music of Beethoven and a Jew who enjoys the body of Samia, a Muslim daughter of a well-known Arabian poet. Only self-hating morons cannot understand how grotesque your suggestion sounds and how miserable the Jewish people's situation is for that I have to explain this.
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Re: "Have you read what you quoted? "
Read it?
Why would I want to read it?
Better just to make something up and throw it into a forum, don't you think?
Awesome.
So now you understnad I didn't compare the Holocaust to the American Revolutionary War?
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In other words you wanted them out simply because they ain't white, even if they are decent.
If someone's truly decent then I don't have a problem with them being here, but finding a decent black is almost as likely as you breaking out into spontaneous song of "Das Lied der Deutschen".
Is this the Germany you are talking about?
No and if you have to reach that far back into history when I'm making a point about pre-WW2 Europe then I think you misunderstood.
And this is only a partial list. The most "moderate" hatred the Reich had for Jews was during the time of Heine and Marx, when Jews had to betray the Magen David for the Cross in order to gain high education and be lawyers, teachers, etc. Of course Jews shouldn't have been doing this in the first place because it wasn't their country, but the hatred is obvious. The Reform movement didn't rise up from nothing - it was a movement of cowards, of dogs, who were so afraid of the hatred of the Fritz that they decided to surrender.
It's true that there has been a long history of anti-Semitism in Europe including Germany. However many Jews in pre-war Europe were VERY assimilated and loved their host countries. I think this was a problem for them and what truly led them into danger, because they got too comfortable in Gentile countries which at any time could turn against them. Some had earned medals in the military in service to their hosts in Europe and were later hunted down by the Nazis.
I like Islam's monotheism or as they call it - Tawhid, I like Shintoism's self-decipline, self-respect and love of war, but it doesn't mean I should enjoy Islamic literature, simply because the writers belong to a culture that sworn to eliminate my people in the most brutal ways imagineable for human mind. There's no difference between a Jew who enjoys the music of Beethoven and a Jew who enjoys the body of Samia, a Muslim daughter of a well-known Arabian poet. Only self-hating morons cannot understand how grotesque your suggestion sounds and how miserable the Jewish people's situation is for that I have to explain this.
I don't think it's a problem to enjoy art unless the person themselves were anti-Semitic or wanted to destroy your culture. I understand you would avoid listening to anything composed by anti-Semites or Nazis, but if the person composing something was not an anti-Semite or Nazi then I don't really completely get it. I do think I understand a little more than I did though, because you are lumping all people from the same culture together and saying that they have a sort of collective responsibility and you reject the whole thing. It's your right to do that.
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Blacks to a certain degree have a right to be here since they were brought here against their will, but I do think that was a mistake. Also I wouldn't force them out, I would offer compensation for them to leave.
In other words you wanted them out simply because they ain't white, even if they are decent.
It was a very good place to live for Jews part of the time. Too good, really. Sort of like America today. Many American Jews will not go to Israel because life in America is too good. I think it was the same thing with Europe. Unfortunately any Gentile nation can turn against the Jews, and it might be true that all nations are destined to do so sooner or later.
(http://www.hometeamsonline.com/photos/htosports/BECRUSADERWRESTLING/Empire_Crusader.jpg)
Is this the Germany you are talking about?
- The Germans murdered at least 200,000 Jews during the Crusades in a month or 2 (1096).
- The Germans murdered at least 20,000 Jews in Retingen blaming for descegrating the "holy bread" of the Roman loving son of a Roman soldier Jeebus (1298).
- During the Black Death, the inferior race of rats known as Germans, which was too dumb and primitive to understand the true cause of the plague, blamed the Jews for the plague and slaughtered tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of Jews, virtually causing the elimination of Western European Jewry until the end of the century.
And this is only a partial list. The most "moderate" hatred the Reich had for Jews was during the time of Heine and Marx, when Jews had to betray the Magen David for the Cross in order to gain high education and be lawyers, teachers, etc. Of course Jews shouldn't have been doing this in the first place because it wasn't their country, but the hatred is obvious. The Reform movement didn't rise up from nothing - it was a movement of cowards, of dogs, who were so afraid of the hatred of the Fritz that they decided to surrender.
My point is that there are good and bad things that come out of every culture. There are also good and bad people in most of them. I agree with you that Europe in general and Germany/Austria in particular deserved to be punished for what they did. Some of it happened immediately after the War when millions of Europeans starved to death. The spread of Communism was also a punishment. I believe this is also happening now with the Muslim invasion of Europe. However having several more Muslim countries is not good for Israel either and it's good that people like Geert Wilders from the Netherlands are speaking out against the destruction of Europe.
I like Islam's monotheism or as they call it - Tawhid, I like Shintoism's self-decipline, self-respect and love of war, but it doesn't mean I should enjoy Islamic literature, simply because the writers belong to a culture that sworn to eliminate my people in the most brutal ways imagineable for human mind. There's no difference between a Jew who enjoys the music of Beethoven and a Jew who enjoys the body of Samia, a Muslim daughter of a well-known Arabian poet. Only self-hating morons cannot understand how grotesque your suggestion sounds and how miserable the Jewish people's situation is for that I have to explain this.
Considering my mother is German/French and Jewish, I take offense to that statement as I have some German blood in my veins and you refer to "German" as a race, German is not a race. Germanic peoples are a ethnic group.
Yes I realize the tragedies that have happened in Germany however there are many Germans who had absolutely nothing to do with what happened who were living in America, many of my family members on my moms side included.
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Considering my mother is German/French and Jewish,
German/French or Jewish?
I take offense to that statement as I have some German blood in my veins and you refer to "German" as a race, German is not a race. Germanic peoples are a ethnic group.
I refered to the German people as a "Race of rats" - it's a saying, not a scientifical "racial" argument.
Every person who shares the psyche and culture of the Germans is a German - Germans are a culture, not a race that I don't even believe in.
Yes I realize the tragedies that have happened in Germany however there are many Germans who had absolutely nothing to do with what happened who were living in America, many of my family members on my moms side included.
Yes we all know about the German lovers of Hitler (the many Germans who were part of America First, for example) in America who just loved their Fuhrer. The German Americans were not Italian Americans. There's a saying that had the Germans declared war on America, the Holocaust would have taken place there too, at the same time it was taking place in Europe, Northern Africa and the Middle East.
Any German who is part of this evil culture of murderers, ESPECIALLY after the Holocaust is a piece of scum and the Jew who will defend him is a despicable self-hating kike.
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Considering my mother is German/French and Jewish,
German/French or Jewish?
I take offense to that statement as I have some German blood in my veins and you refer to "German" as a race, German is not a race. Germanic peoples are a ethnic group.
I refered to the German people as a "Race of rats" - it's a saying, not a scientifical "racial" argument.
Every person who shares the psyche and culture of the Germans is a German - Germans are a culture, not a race that I don't even believe in.
Yes I realize the tragedies that have happened in Germany however there are many Germans who had absolutely nothing to do with what happened who were living in America, many of my family members on my moms side included.
Yes we all know about the German lovers of Hitler (the many Germans who were part of America First, for example) in America who just loved their Fuhrer. The German Americans were not Italian Americans. There's a saying that had the Germans declared war on America, the Holocaust would have taken place there too, at the same time it was taking place in Europe, Northern Africa and the Middle East.
Any German who is part of this evil culture of murderers, ESPECIALLY after the Holocaust is a piece of scum and the Jew who will defend him is a despicable self-hating kike.
My mother is ethnically German and French and converted to Judaism.
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I can only speak about Texas but most German-Americans here are much much closer to Hank Hill than Heinrich Himmler.
Besides many including my own grandfather fought for the USA in WW2, against the Nazis!
My family were farmers, they worked the land, an honest day's hard work to make a living (and didn't own slaves either).
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I can only speak about Texas but most German-Americans here are much much closer to Hank Hill than Heinrich Himmler.
Besides many including my own grandfather fought for the USA in WW2, against the Nazis!
Did Ron Paul's father did the same?
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My mother is ethnically German and French
That's irrelavent because she left German culture for Judaism, hence, a Jew.
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I don't know Ron Paul's ethnicity but I don't like him anyway because he's evil.
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I don't know Ron Paul's ethnicity but I don't like him anyway because he's evil.
Ronald Ernest Paul is a loyal German
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I don't know Ron Paul's ethnicity but I don't like him anyway because he's evil.
Ronald Ernest Paul is a loyal German
You know more than I do about him, which is funny because you live in Israel. I thought he was probably English descent. Most people in the Hill country of Texas are very Bible-believing people who love God and aren't anti-Semitic.
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I don't know Ron Paul's ethnicity but I don't like him anyway because he's evil.
Ronald Ernest Paul is a loyal German
You know more than I do about him, which is funny because you live in Israel. I thought he was probably English descent. Most people in the Hill country of Texas are very Bible-believing people who love G-d and aren't anti-Semitic.
I don't want to go there because I gave my word but the Xtian "bible" equals the Qur'an and Mein Kampf in its anti-Semitism, so I don't buy this.
Are you "purely" German?
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No I'm about 1/4 but my last name is German so I tend to identify more as that. I've also got other white ethnicities in my background that I'm equally proud of. None of those countries are perfect but I will not be ashamed of any of them either. As far as I know, nobody in my family has ever been a Nazi or expressed any such sympathies. I was always raised to be pro-Israel.
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My mother is ethnically German and French
That's irrelavent because she left German culture for Judaism, hence, a Jew.
my cousins and aunts/grandparents on my moms side are still German and French though.
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If someone's truly decent then I don't have a problem with them being here, but finding a decent black is almost as likely as you breaking out into spontaneous song of "Das Lied der Deutschen".
What about moronic whites? what about Blacks such as Pastor Manning?
Is this the Germany you are talking about?
No and if you have to reach that far back into history when I'm making a point about pre-WW2 Europe then I think you misunderstood.
[/quote]
No difference between the periods. Both were hostile to Judaism.
It's true that there has been a long history of anti-Semitism in Europe including Germany. However many Jews in pre-war Europe were VERY assimilated and loved their host countries. I think this was a problem for them and what truly led them into danger, because they got too comfortable in Gentile countries which at any time could turn against them. Some had earned medals in the military in service to their hosts in Europe and were later hunted down by the Nazis.
Ever though WHY they assimiliated?
I don't think it's a problem to enjoy art unless the person themselves were anti-Semitic or wanted to destroy your culture. I understand you would avoid listening to anything composed by anti-Semites or Nazis, but if the person composing something was not an anti-Semite or Nazi then I don't really completely get it. I do think I understand a little more than I did though, because you are lumping all people from the same culture together and saying that they have a sort of collective responsibility and you reject the whole thing. It's your right to do that.
A person takes part in an evil culture and there's no problem enjoying his artwork? where is common sense? I thought it was only uncommon among Jews!
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What about moronic whites?
There are a lot of them too.
what about Blacks such as Pastor Manning?
He's a good man and I respect him.
No difference between the periods. Both were hostile to Judaism.
Ok I think I understand your viewpoint now.
Ever though WHY they assimiliated?
Many had ancestors that were forced to, and yes I do think that was evil.
A person takes part in an evil culture and there's no problem enjoying his artwork? where is common sense? I thought it was only uncommon among Jews!
I said I don't have a problem with enjoying art from individuals who are not evil. You seem to think that every German from waking to going to sleep walked around all day talking about how much they hated Jews. Sorry I think they had other things on their mind at least part of the time. There was a high degree of anti-Semitism in Europe, there's absolutely no denying that. There is also no denying that it was ingrained in the general culture of Europe. In that light I can understand why you don't want to involve yourself in anything from that culture any more than necessary. However I don't think every individual was an anti-Semite or had a Nazi mindset. If someone to all appearances seems to have been a decent person as an individual then I don't think there's any reason to avoid them from my point of view. I understand better now why you would feel differently.