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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 05:03:22 PM

Title: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 05:03:22 PM
WITH THE ON GOING NON STOP CHRISTIAN AND CATHOLIC BASHING THAT HAS GONE HERE FOR A WHILE.. IF WE KEEP THIS UP WE WILL BE DIVIDED AND THIS HELPS NO ONE.. THERE IS ONE THING TO POINT SOMETHING OUT BUT EVERYONE HAS HAD THEIR FAULTS.  IF YOU ARE 100% PURE THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE ALIVE NOW WOULD YOU.. RON STOP CALLING EVERYONE YOU DISAGREE WITH NAZIS.. AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA.  YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO NON STOP BASH EITHER CHRISTIANS, OR CATHOLICS OR WHAT EVER IS HAPPENING IN EUROPE.  BY DOING THIS IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU BECAME A DISGRUNTLED NUT.  YOU KEEP THIS GOING AND PEOPLE WILL TURN AWAY AND THAT IS ONLY HELPING ENEMIES OUT.  I AM FED UP OF PEOPLE SAYING EVERY PRIEST OF REV. IS A RAPIST PEDOPHILE, THAT IS COMPLETELY NOT TRUE .  YA KNOW RESPECT WORKS ON BOTH WAYS YOU WANT PEOPLE TO RESPECT YOU BUT YOU ARE NOT SHOWING RESPECT TO OTHERS. I AM FAR FROM P.C. BUT YOU CAN'T CONDEMN EVERYONE FOR A HAND FULL RIGHT? CAN I CONDEMN THE JEWISH FAITH OR JEWS IN GENERAL CAUSE WE HAVE LETS SAY A MAYOR IN THIS CITY HE IS JEWISH WHO IS HANDING A CITY WHERE MUSLIMS TO ATTACKED TO MUSLIMS? NO CAUSE THAT IS INSANITY TALK AND YOU GOT YOURSELF INSANITY TALK THERE YOURSELF.. WHO HERE CAN BE HELD WHAT HAPPEN 60 YEARS BACK? I WAS NOT BORN AT THE TIME, IT WAS THE WORST NIGHTMARE TO EVER HAPPENED NO ONE IS DENYING THAT. BUT YOU ARE RUNNING ALL AROUND THIS FORUM CALLING EVERYONE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH A NAZI AND PEOPLE ARE NOT TAKING TOO KIND TO THAT LABELING YOU ARE GIVING OUT.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: muman613 on September 20, 2010, 05:11:44 PM
MasterWolf,

I dont know what to say to sooth this problem. I too have a lot of anger at the Catholic church and cannot excuse it for the terrible things it has done to the Jewish people {and the things it is still doing}... But I like you and hope you can see through the problem. I hope you will understand that it takes a long time for these things to be forgiven.

I know that the Jewish people did not ask to be decimated by the Roman Catholic church... We were told that we were of the devil and murdered... But I don't think we are blaming the Catholics of today. If only the Church would address the issues which call the Jewish people sons of devils, etc... I wish we could have peace...

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on September 20, 2010, 05:14:14 PM
I don't care if a person who calls for the elimination of Israel and the Jewish people by calling to expel the Jews of Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem  
and the creation of a Hamas/PLO Nazi "Palestine" State is a Pope, an Imam or a Buddhist priest - call a Nazi a Nazi and a spade a spade.

And I will have no mercy upon Fuhrereite Nazi monsters serving in the Hitler Jugend.

And you call that "disagreement" you Italian MasterWhore?

 
AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA. 

What will you do? make me some Pizza?
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 05:16:31 PM
MasterWolf,

I dont know what to say to sooth this problem. I too have a lot of anger at the Catholic church and cannot excuse it for the terrible things it has done to the Jewish people {and the things it is still doing}... But I like you and hope you can see through the problem. I hope you will understand that it takes a long time for these things to be forgiven.

I know that the Jewish people did not ask to be decimated by the Roman Catholic church... We were told that we were of the devil and murdered... But I don't think we are blaming the Catholics of today. If only the Church would address the issues which call the Jewish people sons of devils, etc... I wish we could have peace...



But how can you hold the full faith accountable to one,, millions of Catholics do not believe in bashing Jews.. Can I hold the whole Jewish people for the acts of some in this country who till now support Obama who he himself is an outright Jew, white and America hater? NO of course not.. But when someone is being called and labeled nazi over and over again on this forum this is going to throw people away from this forum  I am not going to have to defend my faith for another 100  years for the action of pukes they do not speak for the Catholic faith those are brainwashed rodents.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 05:18:46 PM
I don't care if a person who calls for the elimination of Israel and the Jewish people by calling to expel the Jews of Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem  
and the creation of a Hamas/PLO Nazi "Palestine" State is a Pope, an Imam or a Buddhist priest - call a Nazi a Nazi and a spade a spade.

And I will have no mercy upon Fuhrereite Nazi monsters serving in the Hitler Jugend.

And you call that "disagreement" you Italian MasterWhore?

 
AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA. 

What will you do? make me some Pizza?

A Pizza? YOU ARE A BIGOTED MINDED LITTLE MAN.. WTF YOU THINK YOU ARE TALKING TO YOU LITTLE SOB.. YOU CAN GO TO HELL MASTERWHORE? I GAVE 12 YEARS TO THIS MOVEMENT WHERE THE HELL YOU BEEN HIDING SOMEWHERE YOU FILTHY LOW LIFE CHILD .. YOU ARE BIGOT FILTHY SWINE YEA YOU RON
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on September 20, 2010, 05:20:14 PM
I don't care if a person who calls for the elimination of Israel and the Jewish people by calling to expel the Jews of Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem  
and the creation of a Hamas/PLO Nazi "Palestine" State is a Pope, an Imam or a Buddhist priest - call a Nazi a Nazi and a spade a spade.

And I will have no mercy upon Fuhrereite Nazi monsters serving in the Hitler Jugend.

And you call that "disagreement" you Italian MasterWhore?

 
AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA. 

What will you do? make me some Pizza?

A Pizza? YOU ARE A BIGOTED MINDED LITTLE MAN.. WTF YOU THINK YOU ARE TALKING TO YOU LITTLE SOB.. YOU CAN GO TO HELL MASTERWHORE? I GAVE 12 YEARS TO THIS MOVEMENT WHERE THE HELL YOU BEEN HIDING SOMEWHERE YOU FILTHY LOW LIFE CHILD .. YOU ARE BIGOT FILTHY SWINE YEA YOU RON

Brothas be banging yo sista you wanna be Mafioso
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 05:21:05 PM
YOU COME IN HERE ACTING LIKE YOU ARE BETTER THEN ANYBODY ELSE.. NOBODY HAS EVERY HAD A FIGHT OR CONFRONTATION WITH ANOTHER MEMBER ON THIS BOARD LIKE YOU.. THIS BOARD HAS BEEN FOR WHAT SINCE 2007 AND WE ALL HAVE GOTTEN TOGETHER YOU LITTLE RAT YOU ARE TRYING WHAT TO PUT A WEDGE IN THIS FORUM DO YOU WANT HALF THE FORUM TO LEAVE? WHAT ARE YOU A MIDGET LITTLE FOOL
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on September 20, 2010, 05:22:09 PM
YOU COME IN HERE ACTING LIKE YOU ARE BETTER THEN ANYBODY ELSE.. NOBODY HAS EVERY HAD A FIGHT OR CONFRONTATION WITH ANOTHER MEMBER ON THIS BOARD LIKE YOU.. THIS BOARD HAS BEEN FOR WHAT SINCE 2007 AND WE ALL HAVE GOTTEN TOGETHER YOU LITTLE RAT YOU ARE TRYING WHAT TO PUT A WEDGE IN THIS FORUM DO YOU WANT HALF THE FORUM TO LEAVE? WHAT ARE YOU A MIDGET LITTLE FOOL

I guess I am better than you MasterWhore if you're so annoyed by what I say.

I wonder what is the real reason you oppose Obama if he says the things your Pope says.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 05:23:54 PM
I don't care if a person who calls for the elimination of Israel and the Jewish people by calling to expel the Jews of Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem  
and the creation of a Hamas/PLO Nazi "Palestine" State is a Pope, an Imam or a Buddhist priest - call a Nazi a Nazi and a spade a spade.

And I will have no mercy upon Fuhrereite Nazi monsters serving in the Hitler Jugend.

And you call that "disagreement" you Italian MasterWhore?

 
AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA. 

What will you do? make me some Pizza?

A Pizza? YOU ARE A BIGOTED MINDED LITTLE MAN.. WTF YOU THINK YOU ARE TALKING TO YOU LITTLE SOB.. YOU CAN GO TO HELL MASTERWHORE? I GAVE 12 YEARS TO THIS MOVEMENT WHERE THE HELL YOU BEEN HIDING SOMEWHERE YOU FILTHY LOW LIFE CHILD .. YOU ARE BIGOT FILTHY SWINE YEA YOU RON

Brothas be banging yo sista you wanna be Mafioso

EXCUSE ME YOU LITTLE DISRESPECTFUL PIG? YOU ARE NOT ONLY A BIGOT BUT NOW YOU GOT A PROBLEM CAUSE I  AM ALSO ITALIAN HOW ABOUT YOU GO IN THE CORNER FOR YOUR "TIME OUT" JUNIOR GO HIDE IN THE DARK SOMEWHERE AND FIND OUT WHY I KEEP GETTING MESSAGES FROM PEOPLE THEY ARE SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR HIGHER THEN ANYONE ELSE ATTITUDE YOU ARE NOTHING YOU WILL STAY NOTHING ..
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 05:25:06 PM
YOU COME IN HERE ACTING LIKE YOU ARE BETTER THEN ANYBODY ELSE.. NOBODY HAS EVERY HAD A FIGHT OR CONFRONTATION WITH ANOTHER MEMBER ON THIS BOARD LIKE YOU.. THIS BOARD HAS BEEN FOR WHAT SINCE 2007 AND WE ALL HAVE GOTTEN TOGETHER YOU LITTLE RAT YOU ARE TRYING WHAT TO PUT A WEDGE IN THIS FORUM DO YOU WANT HALF THE FORUM TO LEAVE? WHAT ARE YOU A MIDGET LITTLE FOOL

I guess I am better than you MasterWhore if you're so annoyed by what I say.

I wonder what is the real reason you oppose Obama if he says the things your Pope says.

I WONDER WHY YOU SIDE WITH MUSLIMS TO TRY TO PROMOTE THREATS TO ANYONE DO YOU SUPPORT ISLAMIC FREAKS YOU DIRTY LITTLE FREAK YOURSELF.. YES YOU ARE A DISGRUNTLE LITTLE NUT YOU 12 YEAR OLD MIDGET
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on September 20, 2010, 05:26:45 PM
YOU COME IN HERE ACTING LIKE YOU ARE BETTER THEN ANYBODY ELSE.. NOBODY HAS EVERY HAD A FIGHT OR CONFRONTATION WITH ANOTHER MEMBER ON THIS BOARD LIKE YOU.. THIS BOARD HAS BEEN FOR WHAT SINCE 2007 AND WE ALL HAVE GOTTEN TOGETHER YOU LITTLE RAT YOU ARE TRYING WHAT TO PUT A WEDGE IN THIS FORUM DO YOU WANT HALF THE FORUM TO LEAVE? WHAT ARE YOU A MIDGET LITTLE FOOL

I guess I am better than you MasterWhore if you're so annoyed by what I say.

I wonder what is the real reason you oppose Obama if he says the things your Pope says.

I WONDER WHY YOU SIDE WITH MUSLIMS TO TRY TO PROMOTE THREATS TO ANYONE DO YOU SUPPORT ISLAMIC FREAKS YOU DIRTY LITTLE FREAK YOURSELF.. YES YOU ARE A DISGRUNTLE LITTLE NUT YOU 12 YEAR OLD MIDGET

I don't side with Muslims. I just say the truth - the Crusaders and the Muslims are the same sh*t, just like the Soviets and the Nazis. I hate you both, don't worry.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on September 20, 2010, 05:27:20 PM
I don't care if a person who calls for the elimination of Israel and the Jewish people by calling to expel the Jews of Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem  
and the creation of a Hamas/PLO Nazi "Palestine" State is a Pope, an Imam or a Buddhist priest - call a Nazi a Nazi and a spade a spade.

And I will have no mercy upon Fuhrereite Nazi monsters serving in the Hitler Jugend.

And you call that "disagreement" you Italian MasterWhore?

 
AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA. 

What will you do? make me some Pizza?

A Pizza? YOU ARE A BIGOTED MINDED LITTLE MAN.. WTF YOU THINK YOU ARE TALKING TO YOU LITTLE SOB.. YOU CAN GO TO HELL MASTERWHORE? I GAVE 12 YEARS TO THIS MOVEMENT WHERE THE HELL YOU BEEN HIDING SOMEWHERE YOU FILTHY LOW LIFE CHILD .. YOU ARE BIGOT FILTHY SWINE YEA YOU RON

Brothas be banging yo sista you wanna be Mafioso

EXCUSE ME YOU LITTLE DISRESPECTFUL PIG? YOU ARE NOT ONLY A BIGOT BUT NOW YOU GOT A PROBLEM CAUSE I  AM ALSO ITALIAN HOW ABOUT YOU GO IN THE CORNER FOR YOUR "TIME OUT" JUNIOR GO HIDE IN THE DARK SOMEWHERE AND FIND OUT WHY I KEEP GETTING MESSAGES FROM PEOPLE THEY ARE SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR HIGHER THEN ANYONE ELSE ATTITUDE YOU ARE NOTHING YOU WILL STAY NOTHING ..

I know you're Italian. That's why I told everybody that you're a wanna be Mafioso and that's why your heart was broken.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: White Israelite on September 20, 2010, 05:27:43 PM
Alright guys this is getting a little rediculous, please take it to PM. The majority of Catholics are not bad people nor do they follow what the pope teaches, that is primarily the Vatican. I don't agree with the Vatican either but I'd sure be outcasting a lot of good people who support Israel and the Jews if I said the Catholics are my enemies. We have far greater problems than the sect of Christianity some of our members take part of.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 05:30:15 PM
YOU COME IN HERE ACTING LIKE YOU ARE BETTER THEN ANYBODY ELSE.. NOBODY HAS EVERY HAD A FIGHT OR CONFRONTATION WITH ANOTHER MEMBER ON THIS BOARD LIKE YOU.. THIS BOARD HAS BEEN FOR WHAT SINCE 2007 AND WE ALL HAVE GOTTEN TOGETHER YOU LITTLE RAT YOU ARE TRYING WHAT TO PUT A WEDGE IN THIS FORUM DO YOU WANT HALF THE FORUM TO LEAVE? WHAT ARE YOU A MIDGET LITTLE FOOL

I guess I am better than you MasterWhore if you're so annoyed by what I say.

I wonder what is the real reason you oppose Obama if he says the things your Pope says.

I WONDER WHY YOU SIDE WITH MUSLIMS TO TRY TO PROMOTE THREATS TO ANYONE DO YOU SUPPORT ISLAMIC FREAKS YOU DIRTY LITTLE FREAK YOURSELF.. YES YOU ARE A DISGRUNTLE LITTLE NUT YOU 12 YEAR OLD MIDGET

I don't side with Muslims. I just say the truth - the Crusaders and the Muslims are the same sh*t, just like the Soviets and the Nazis. I hate you both, don't worry.
THEN  YOU SHOULD NOT BE UPSET WHEN ANYONE SAY THEY HATE YOU .. CAUSE I GOT PEOPLE ALL THE TIME SENDING ME PM THEY ARE TIRED OF YOUR BIGGER THEN ANYONE ELSE ATTITUDE AND COON AND MASSUAH ARE 100% RIGHT SO IS RUBY YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT TRY TO PUT DIVIDES ON PEOPLE YOU ARE A DISGUSTING LOW LIFE TURD YOU KNOW THAT.. ALL YOU DO IS BASH OTHERS ON THIS FORUM THAT IS ALL YOU HAVE DONE,, AND DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO BASH ME LITTLE MAN I WILL TAKE YOU DOWN MYSELF I BEEN BEEN FIGHTING WITH THIS MOVEMENT LONG BEFORE YOU PROBABLY WAS EVEN BORN .. WHY NOT GO AHEAD AND BASH EVERY CHRIISTIAN YOU SUPPORT MUSLIMS TO THREATEN OR KILL THEM CAUSE YOU ARE A SICK TWISTED FOOL YOURSELF SON
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 05:32:34 PM
Alright guys this is getting a little rediculous, please take it to PM. The majority of Catholics are not bad people nor do they follow what the pope teaches, that is primarily the Vatican. I don't agree with the Vatican either but I'd sure be outcasting a lot of good people who support Israel and the Jews if I said the Catholics are my enemies. We have far greater problems than the sect of Christianity some of our members take part of.

Brother I will have this out a bit, cause if it is that much to go on the open forum then it is that much I am singling out this non top basher.. If anyone follows anyone constantly blinding they are a robot.. And there has not been a moment gone by where this individual is bashing or calling anyone he doesn't agree with nazi and I REALLY DON'T APPREICIATE BEING CALLED "MASTERWHORE"  Ron would you rather have people to leave this forum for your own stupidity?
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: muman613 on September 20, 2010, 05:35:13 PM
Ron,

Please do not make this personal and make threatening statements. I think this thread is getting out of hand and should be locked shortly. Do we really want to have this kind of thread here? Maybe it can continue in PM but I think that too would be non-productive. I don't think anything Ron or I will say will change Masterwolfs faith in his church.

Let us just agree that the church has a history which needs to be forgiven.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on September 20, 2010, 05:38:22 PM


Let us just agree that the church has a history which needs to be forgiven.


WHAT??????????????????  >:( >:(
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 05:41:17 PM


Let us just agree that the church has a history which needs to be forgiven.


WHAT??????????????????  >:( >:(

What you going to call him all sorts of names too now if you don't agree with him?  Yes either there will be forgiveness or there will never be and advancement.. But you can't have it both ways either you work together or there will be a constant divide
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 05:43:52 PM
I don't care if a person who calls for the elimination of Israel and the Jewish people by calling to expel the Jews of Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem  
and the creation of a Hamas/PLO Nazi "Palestine" State is a Pope, an Imam or a Buddhist priest - call a Nazi a Nazi and a spade a spade.

And I will have no mercy upon Fuhrereite Nazi monsters serving in the Hitler Jugend.

And you call that "disagreement" you Italian MasterWhore?

 
AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA. 



What will you do? make me some Pizza?

A Pizza? YOU ARE A BIGOTED MINDED LITTLE MAN.. WTF YOU THINK YOU ARE TALKING TO YOU LITTLE SOB.. YOU CAN GO TO HELL MASTERWHORE? I GAVE 12 YEARS TO THIS MOVEMENT WHERE THE HELL YOU BEEN HIDING SOMEWHERE YOU FILTHY LOW LIFE CHILD .. YOU ARE BIGOT FILTHY SWINE YEA YOU RON

Brothas be banging yo sista you wanna be Mafioso

AND THIS IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.. YOU REALLY OWE ME AN APOLOGY YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHTS TO GO AROUND AND TRY TO INSULT ANYONE HERE
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: nessuno on September 20, 2010, 05:47:51 PM
 :o  Ron - are you trying to hurt MasterWolf by bringing up pizza and the mafia? :::D  He is a proud Italian American.  Those are stereotypes.  You can't hurt him that way.  You didn't break his heart, but he might want to break something of yours.

You only hurt JTF, in America, with that kind of stupidity.

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 20, 2010, 06:07:18 PM
בס''ד

This is an outrage. Masterwolf, I apologize to you for these terrible comments. These comments do not represent JTF in any way. You know me for many years and you know how much I think of Italians and Italian Americans. And by the way, most Jews like Italians and Italian Americans. You also know, Wolf, how much I respect you and how much I think of you. Please forgive these terrible statements.

Wolf, you know better than anyone what JTF's positions are on these issues.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 06:13:37 PM
Chaim it is more then just that, I been seeing if some people do not agree we are called Nazis that is a very nasty label to be called .. I don't know who locked this But I felt like this is needed to be told as much as we need open forum to be called nazis or other slandering remarks .. I know Ron doesn't really talk on behalf of JTF .. I have given my god given heart to JTF for well over 12 years Since I met David Ben Mosche.  But to have this person come here and bash people of other faiths this is going to make JTF look like we are crazy and can't be taken seriously.   I think this should be open and not have to hide what this person is saying.  Cause I think we have as many if not more Christian and Catholic members on this forum and It is not your fault brother nor anyone else on this forum.  But I do not like or will allow anyone like this person to talk to me like this.  This I won't accept from anybody.  Or allow anyone to tell me what I should believe either.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 20, 2010, 06:25:32 PM
Chaim it is more then just that, I been seeing if some people do not agree we are called Nazis that is a very nasty label to be called .. I don't know who locked this But I felt like this is needed to be told as much as we need open forum to be called nazis or other slandering remarks .. I know Ron doesn't really talk on behalf of JTF .. I have given my G-d given heart to JTF for well over 12 years Since I met David Ben Mosche.  But to have this person come here and bash people of other faiths this is going to make JTF look like we are crazy and can't be taken seriously.   I think this should be open and not have to hide what this person is saying.  Cause I think we have as many if not more Christian and Catholic members on this forum and It is not your fault brother nor anyone else on this forum.  But I do not like or will allow anyone like this person to talk to me like this.  This I won't accept from anybody.  Or allow anyone to tell me what I should believe either.

בס''ד

Wolf, you are absolutely right. I am unlocking this thread so that people can respond freely. Someone locked the thread apparently to prevent fighting among members.

Ron is just one person. He has stated numerous times that he completely disagrees with JTF and with me on these issues. People should realize that we have people in our movement who disagree with us on certain issues.

You are also correct that no JTFer should be called a Nazi. That is a terrible slander.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 06:43:41 PM
I also didn't like being called "MasterWhore"  I have no idea who this guy thinks he is, but if he expects to be taken seriously or want people to respect him and he shows little respect to anybody.  Maybe he should lighten up a bit and stop trashing and start to see how we can work together... By being insulting he isn't helping himself it makes him look weak
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: TheCoon on September 20, 2010, 06:46:22 PM
I think Ron should be banned after the filthy attacks against Masterwolf, who is more than a valued member. How is him being called Masterwhore and calling Catholics nazis helping JTF? He's also promoting bigotry against Italians. I really think Ron is retarded or a troll from StørmFrønt.

It's alright to disagree with JTF, but to promote hatred of Catholics is ridiculous.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 20, 2010, 06:56:52 PM
I also didn't like being called "MasterWhore"  I have no idea who this guy thinks he is, but if he expects to be taken seriously or want people to respect him and he shows little respect to anybody.  Maybe he should lighten up a bit and stop trashing and start to see how we can work together... By being insulting he isn't helping himself it makes him look weak

בס''ד

That insult was also terrible and I apologize to you, Wolf. You are absolutely right that we must respect one another.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Irish Zionist on September 20, 2010, 06:58:35 PM
I think Ron should be banned after the filthy attacks against Masterwolf, who is more than a valued member. How is him being called Masterwhore and calling Catholics Nazis helping JTF? He's also promoting bigotry against Italians. I really think Ron is retarded or a troll from StørmFrønt.

It's alright to disagree with JTF, but to promote hatred of Catholics is ridiculous.
Ron is a great Jew that tells the truth about how he feels and I respect him for that. Why can't we call the pope a Nazi when he calls for the destruction of Israel? He is no different from any other Nazi animal and unlike your average Nazi he has the power to help The Jewish People and chooses not to.

Ron is a valued member with great posts and he makes great video's for JTF and Hayamin. We need a Jewish hero like Ron in our movement. He is not a Nazi StørmFrønt troll. He is a wonderful Jew that tells the truth and who isn't politically correct. If someone is evil that speaks out against his people then he defends them.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT
Post by: cjd on September 20, 2010, 07:11:31 PM
Don't let it get you you Master Wolf.... Ron may be the "belle of the ball" over on the Hebrew forum with all his antics however most of our members here on the English forum just tolerate them and him... The only thing I can figure is that the politics of the two forums is vastly different.... I am working on my Hebrew and hope to one day be able to go over to to the Hebrew forum and see just what the dynamics are there... Don't waste your time arguing with ignorant attacks and posts that are designed to have shock value where no shock value is needed ( worthless postings) ... Lets get back to the way things should be run here on our forum and not allow our English Forum to be churned up by outsiders.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: ~Hanna~ on September 20, 2010, 07:14:27 PM
Ron: this is just yet, another example of many example's of how you treat people here on the fourm.

You need to apologize to Wolfie and many other people....too. This has been allowed for a long time, now.

I don't care if a person who calls for the elimination of Israel and the Jewish people by calling to expel the Jews of Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem  
and the creation of a Hamas/PLO Nazi "Palestine" State is a Pope, an Imam or a Buddhist priest - call a Nazi a Nazi and a spade a spade.

And I will have no mercy upon Fuhrereite Nazi monsters serving in the Hitler Jugend.

And you call that "disagreement" you Italian MasterWhore?

 
AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA. 

What will you do? make me some Pizza?
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: muman613 on September 20, 2010, 07:33:22 PM
As I have said many times, there are tons of reasons why a Jew can despise the Catholic church and christianity as a whole. This religion, which we have been told has been reformed and is sorry for its transgressions, has killed many Jews. It has also destroyed Jewish families, and it continues to try to rid the world of Jews. I still have a lot of anger over the antisemitic bible of the christians. But I will not go into it here.

I take the word of the non-Jewish JTF members that they do not believe the antisemitic contents of the NT. Sometimes I don't know if we can trust them because in the past we have relied on non-Jews only to be let down.

I will clearly say once again I do not hate those who follow the religion they were born into. I only hope that those people will examine the teachings and conclude that they are not in line with the teaching of the Tanach and reject the teachings which are contrary to Torah. I will not force anyone to believe something they don't want to believe. I will not hate them and believe that they are going to 'hell', as they are taught Jews will. I will simply hate people who hate Jews... Hashem clearly says those who curse Jews will be cursed.

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 20, 2010, 07:40:44 PM
Re [Ron]:  "Ron is a valued member with great posts and he makes great video's for JTF and Hayamin "

Gosh!

Who would have ever guessed he was so vital to the movement?

I take back anything I could have even possibly wrote which offended him now!

I just didn't realize that he was not only a genius in the media of video, but a brilliant political strategist as well!

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT
Post by: cjd on September 20, 2010, 07:57:06 PM
As I have said many times, there are tons of reasons why a Jew can despise the Catholic church and christianity as a whole. This religion, which we have been told has been reformed and is sorry for its transgressions, has killed many Jews. It has also destroyed Jewish families, and it continues to try to rid the world of Jews. I still have a lot of anger over the antisemitic bible of the christians. But I will not go into it here.

I take the word of the non-Jewish JTF members that they do not believe the antisemitic contents of the NT. Sometimes I don't know if we can trust them because in the past we have relied on non-Jews only to be let down.

I will clearly say once again I do not hate those who follow the religion they were born into. I only hope that those people will examine the teachings and conclude that they are not in line with the teaching of the Tanach and reject the teachings which are contrary to Torah. I will not force anyone to believe something they don't want to believe. I will not hate them and believe that they are going to 'hell', as they are taught Jews will. I will simply hate people who hate Jews... Hashem clearly says those who curse Jews will be cursed.


muman, the best you can hope for between Jews and Roman Catholics is a peaceful coexistence... 1 billion Catholics are not going to turn their backs on the New Testament to make you or any other Jew happy... If the two groups can't find some common ground to move forward on people will still be having this same discourse a few hundred years from now... I think it would be far more productive to work on things that can be improved moving forward rather then opening old wounds of the past.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Rubystars on September 20, 2010, 08:24:35 PM
Master Wolf, don't let Ron get you riled, he has no idea about anything connected to American life or Christianity. He doesn't understand anything but his very small, limited perspective on life. When you see Ron talking about pizza, etc. just imagine this is him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N98oF4dw14&p=6885D89B8B363960&playnext=1&index=24

His hateful words are just as meaningful as that.

I wish Chaim would keep him on a shorter leash.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 20, 2010, 08:36:35 PM
As I have said many times, there are tons of reasons why a Jew can despise the Catholic church and christianity as a whole. This religion, which we have been told has been reformed and is sorry for its transgressions, has killed many Jews. It has also destroyed Jewish families, and it continues to try to rid the world of Jews. I still have a lot of anger over the antisemitic bible of the christians. But I will not go into it here.

Muman, you just did go into it.  

It seems like you go through this story on the forum again and again.   I don't really see the point.   We all know what happened.  I don't think anyone is forgetting or pretending history never happened.  

Quote
1.I take the word of the non-Jewish JTF members that they do not believe the antisemitic contents of the NT. 2Sometimes I don't know if we can trust them

Muman.  Don't you see that statement #2 calls into question the truthfulness of statement #1?   It seems you don't really take their word for it because you don't trust them.    If you had reason not to, I could understand that but...

Quote
because in the past we have relied on non-Jews only to be let down.  

This to me is just not true.   What situation are you referring to?  
I think we've had more Jews betray JTF than non-Jews, but even with all the betrayals, I don't think it was ever a problem that 'we relied on non-Jews and they burnt us.'   I really don't know where you get this from.  Please explain.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on September 20, 2010, 08:38:43 PM
This to me is just not true.   What situation are you referring to?  



pact with Rome against Greece, for example

And don't forget Egypt

Quote from: Isaiah 36:6
Behold, thou trustest upon the staff of this bruised reed, even upon Egypt; whereon if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it; so is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all that trust on him.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: AsheDina on September 20, 2010, 08:43:23 PM
This to me is just not true.   What situation are you referring to?  



pact with Rome against Greece, for example

And you, little man were there to witness this event...

Masterwolf, I feel so embarassed over this person. I am SO sorry.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 20, 2010, 08:47:54 PM
The anti-Italian comments are out of line.  (not to mention, silly)  
Just as an aside for whatever it's worth, it seems to me that American Jews and American Italians have had good relations.  

I hope that Wolf and Ron will find a way to speak to each other civilly, drop the insults and find a way to engage in meaningful conversation.    Please no one forget that both of these members have a lot to offer JTF, and they bring a lot to the table here.   We should not exclude either of them, we should try to hear their views, but the insults make it impossible to hear people out.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 20, 2010, 08:48:36 PM
This to me is just not true.   What situation are you referring to?  



pact with Rome against Greece, for example

And don't forget Egypt

Quote from: Isaiah 36:6
Behold, thou trustest upon the staff of this bruised reed, even upon Egypt; whereon if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it; so is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all that trust on him.


I thought he was speaking about JTF's history.

JTF is not a nation or a country.   And we as JTF have not allied with enemy countries or empires.  So I really can't see how it's relevant.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 08:54:23 PM
This to me is just not true.   What situation are you referring to?  



pact with Rome against Greece, for example

And you, little man were there to witness this event...

Masterwolf, I feel so embarassed over this person. I am SO sorry.
You have nothing to be embarrassed about, you didn't say it you shouldn't be sorry.. If this is how it is in the Hebrew forum fine he has zero idea what we are going through in this side of the world.  And for him to make his bigotry statement like this shows he is 12 and mindless.  I can't, neither you or anyone here be held in the cross fires for things that happened 100s of years except to learn from it and never repeat them.  This forum been here since 06 I believe, I been here before that,  I seen them all come and go and the majority of Jews being slammed on this forum came from other Jews. And yes they been delt with the same way if a Christians does but it works both ways. He can't expect to slam people here and being called a NAZI if we don't agree with.. Everyone's input if valued but if we start talking crazy any new comer that I am trying to recruit sees this cra they will think we are crazy.  I love my JTF family but I refuse anyone talking to me the way he did .. And he has done this to numerous others
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: AsheDina on September 20, 2010, 08:59:58 PM
I think Ron should be banned after the filthy attacks against Masterwolf, who is more than a valued member. How is him being called Masterwhore and calling Catholics Nazis helping JTF? He's also promoting bigotry against Italians. I really think Ron is retarded or a troll from StørmFrønt.

It's alright to disagree with JTF, but to promote hatred of Catholics is ridiculous.
Ron is a great Jew that tells the truth about how he feels and I respect him for that. Why can't we call the pope a Nazi when he calls for the destruction of Israel? He is no different from any other Nazi animal and unlike your average Nazi he has the power to help The Jewish People and chooses not to.

Ron is a valued member with great posts and he makes great video's for JTF and Hayamin. We need a Jewish hero like Ron in our movement. He is not a Nazi StørmFrønt troll. He is a wonderful Jew that tells the truth and who isn't politically correct. If someone is evil that speaks out against his people then he defends them.

Brian, Brian, Brian.. Truth and plain nastiness that brings division are 2 different things. NOBODY is questioning what he does for the HEBREW forum, but all that he does here, is make people, even OUR people feel like drek. It needs to STOP.

This young 17 yr old KID should go fight these animals on THEIR turf, instead of being an honorary here- AN HONORARY- and making us look stupid and hateful. Imagine this NASTY KID being an HONORARY! EMBARASSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Honorary? Respect?
Little boy, you deserve neither at this point.

I am blocking u now, I cannot abide your ugliness. What a TERRIBLE representation to love the foreigner and alien gentile. SICK!

As far as the past with the NAZI pope, it is DUMB to try to make these people who were NOT even the responsible. With this Pope now- I dont know, and furthermore do not care. I know that Masterwolf LOVES my husband & He LOVES Israel & he ADORES Chaim.

 It is also a loser left wing, Marxist, radical tactic to try to make Catholics responsible for things that happened 80 plus years ago..
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: TheCoon on September 20, 2010, 09:13:24 PM
Were any of you Catholic-bashers even [censored] born when any of your justifications for distrusting Catholics happened or are you all just insane? This [censored] is getting crazier and crazier by the post.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 20, 2010, 09:19:13 PM
Alright guys this is getting a little rediculous, please take it to PM. The majority of Catholics are not bad people nor do they follow what the pope teaches, that is primarily the Vatican. I don't agree with the Vatican either but I'd sure be outcasting a lot of good people who support Israel and the Jews if I said the Catholics are my enemies. We have far greater problems than the sect of Christianity some of our members take part of.
Agreed.

We can disagree with political decisions by the church without attacking Catholics as individuals.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 20, 2010, 09:21:51 PM
Alright guys this is getting a little rediculous, please take it to PM. The majority of Catholics are not bad people nor do they follow what the pope teaches, that is primarily the Vatican. I don't agree with the Vatican either but I'd sure be outcasting a lot of good people who support Israel and the Jews if I said the Catholics are my enemies. We have far greater problems than the sect of Christianity some of our members take part of.
Agreed.

We can disagree with political decisions by the church without attacking Catholics as individuals.

Great point.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 20, 2010, 09:24:39 PM
A few general comments.

1: I wonder how many people here have actually read any of the NT.  ::) (And just FTR, I'm not talking about persons who have asked sincere questions about it.)
2: I am not a Catholic but I am a Christian, and Catholics are my fellow Christians. Therefore I take random, baseless Catholic-bashing as a personal insult too.
3: Can somebody please point out to me where a Catholic JTFer has defended every political decision or belief of the pope or the RCC? I just haven't seen it.
4: MasterWolf is one of the first, original JTFers. The people calling him a Nazi probably weren't born when he started following Chaim.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 20, 2010, 09:25:46 PM
Great point.
Thank you.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: shapiro on September 20, 2010, 09:27:09 PM
WITH THE ON GOING NON STOP CHRISTIAN AND CATHOLIC BASHING THAT HAS GONE HERE FOR A WHILE.. IF WE KEEP THIS UP WE WILL BE DIVIDED AND THIS HELPS NO ONE.. THERE IS ONE THING TO POINT SOMETHING OUT BUT EVERYONE HAS HAD THEIR FAULTS.  IF YOU ARE 100% PURE THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE ALIVE NOW WOULD YOU.. RON STOP CALLING EVERYONE YOU DISAGREE WITH NAZIS.. AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA.  YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO NON STOP BASH EITHER CHRISTIANS, OR CATHOLICS OR WHAT EVER IS HAPPENING IN EUROPE.  BY DOING THIS IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU BECAME A DISGRUNTLED NUT.  YOU KEEP THIS GOING AND PEOPLE WILL TURN AWAY AND THAT IS ONLY HELPING ENEMIES OUT.  I AM FED UP OF PEOPLE SAYING EVERY PRIEST OF REV. IS A RAPIST PEDOPHILE, THAT IS COMPLETELY NOT TRUE .  YA KNOW RESPECT WORKS ON BOTH WAYS YOU WANT PEOPLE TO RESPECT YOU BUT YOU ARE NOT SHOWING RESPECT TO OTHERS. I AM FAR FROM P.C. BUT YOU CAN'T CONDEMN EVERYONE FOR A HAND FULL RIGHT? CAN I CONDEMN THE JEWISH FAITH OR JEWS IN GENERAL CAUSE WE HAVE LETS SAY A MAYOR IN THIS CITY HE IS JEWISH WHO IS HANDING A CITY WHERE MUSLIMS TO ATTACKED TO MUSLIMS? NO CAUSE THAT IS INSANITY TALK AND YOU GOT YOURSELF INSANITY TALK THERE YOURSELF.. WHO HERE CAN BE HELD WHAT HAPPEN 60 YEARS BACK? I WAS NOT BORN AT THE TIME, IT WAS THE WORST NIGHTMARE TO EVER HAPPENED NO ONE IS DENYING THAT. BUT YOU ARE RUNNING ALL AROUND THIS FORUM CALLING EVERYONE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH A NAZI AND PEOPLE ARE NOT TAKING TOO KIND TO THAT LABELING YOU ARE GIVING OUT.

The only reason why Chaim Ben Pesach aka Chaim Ben Yosef aka Victor Vancier tolerates non-Jews on his forum is to get their “donations.” Of course Vancier just uses the donations to pay his rent. He’s unemployed because he’s an ex-con and the only way he can support himself is by being a parasite, which is typical for his blood-sucking race. 

Face it, greaseball, he’s using you and all the other goyim. It is a verifiable fact that southern Italians have Arab ancestry and that the mean southern Italian IQ is the same as that of Arabs. Southern Italy would be as poor as any Arab excrement hole if they weren’t leeching off of northern Italy and the rest of Europe. Also, the greatest Italian scientists all came from northern Italy namely Galileo, Da Vicni, Fibonacci, Avogadro, etc. He correctly views you Italians as the disgusting, genetically inferior Arab animals that you are.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: americankahanist on September 20, 2010, 09:27:19 PM
Ron
Stop acting like an idiot.  When Chaim and I did the TV shows and, Yousef before me, the majority of our listeners/supporters were Christians of many denominations, Christians who had love in their hearts for Israel and Jewish people in general.  The Christians on this forum and especially Masterwolf have the highest regard for Jews and Israel.  Thats why they are here and have been for years.

This is the English forum where we live in America and most of my friends are Christians that I have had for decades.
David Ben Moshe.  

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: americankahanist on September 20, 2010, 09:32:54 PM
In Shapiro, we have your typical left wing cowardly Jew.  Shapiro was a coward yesterday.  He is a coward today and he will be a coward tomorrow.  He will die a coward.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 09:33:20 PM
WITH THE ON GOING NON STOP CHRISTIAN AND CATHOLIC BASHING THAT HAS GONE HERE FOR A WHILE.. IF WE KEEP THIS UP WE WILL BE DIVIDED AND THIS HELPS NO ONE.. THERE IS ONE THING TO POINT SOMETHING OUT BUT EVERYONE HAS HAD THEIR FAULTS.  IF YOU ARE 100% PURE THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE ALIVE NOW WOULD YOU.. RON STOP CALLING EVERYONE YOU DISAGREE WITH NAZIS.. AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA.  YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO NON STOP BASH EITHER CHRISTIANS, OR CATHOLICS OR WHAT EVER IS HAPPENING IN EUROPE.  BY DOING THIS IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU BECAME A DISGRUNTLED NUT.  YOU KEEP THIS GOING AND PEOPLE WILL TURN AWAY AND THAT IS ONLY HELPING ENEMIES OUT.  I AM FED UP OF PEOPLE SAYING EVERY PRIEST OF REV. IS A RAPIST PEDOPHILE, THAT IS COMPLETELY NOT TRUE .  YA KNOW RESPECT WORKS ON BOTH WAYS YOU WANT PEOPLE TO RESPECT YOU BUT YOU ARE NOT SHOWING RESPECT TO OTHERS. I AM FAR FROM P.C. BUT YOU CAN'T CONDEMN EVERYONE FOR A HAND FULL RIGHT? CAN I CONDEMN THE JEWISH FAITH OR JEWS IN GENERAL CAUSE WE HAVE LETS SAY A MAYOR IN THIS CITY HE IS JEWISH WHO IS HANDING A CITY WHERE MUSLIMS TO ATTACKED TO MUSLIMS? NO CAUSE THAT IS INSANITY TALK AND YOU GOT YOURSELF INSANITY TALK THERE YOURSELF.. WHO HERE CAN BE HELD WHAT HAPPEN 60 YEARS BACK? I WAS NOT BORN AT THE TIME, IT WAS THE WORST NIGHTMARE TO EVER HAPPENED NO ONE IS DENYING THAT. BUT YOU ARE RUNNING ALL AROUND THIS FORUM CALLING EVERYONE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH A NAZI AND PEOPLE ARE NOT TAKING TOO KIND TO THAT LABELING YOU ARE GIVING OUT.

The only reason why Chaim Ben Pesach aka Chaim Ben Yosef aka Victor Vancier tolerates non-Jews on his forum is to get their “donations.” Of course Vancier just uses the donations to pay his rent. He’s unemployed because he’s an ex-con and the only way he can support himself is by being a parasite, which is typical for his blood-sucking race. 

Face it, greaseball, he’s using you and all the other goyim. It is a verifiable fact that southern Italians have Arab ancestry and that the mean southern Italian IQ is the same as that of Arabs. Southern Italy would be as poor as any Arab excrement hole if they weren’t leeching off of northern Italy and the rest of Europe. Also, the greatest Italian scientists all came from northern Italy namely Galileo, Da Vicni, Fibonacci, Avogadro, etc. He correctly views you Italians as the disgusting, genetically inferior Arab animals that you are.

Who the hell are you you filthy pig?? Another pos from Youtube that trolls itself to this forum from videos... You filthy Muslim pig or are you Ralph or a Stormfaggot which is it you coward. Garbage like you of all will never change the fact the love I have for Israel or my Jewish brothers and sisters regardless a few disagreements.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: AsheDina on September 20, 2010, 09:33:50 PM
WITH THE ON GOING NON STOP CHRISTIAN AND CATHOLIC BASHING THAT HAS GONE HERE FOR A WHILE.. IF WE KEEP THIS UP WE WILL BE DIVIDED AND THIS HELPS NO ONE.. THERE IS ONE THING TO POINT SOMETHING OUT BUT EVERYONE HAS HAD THEIR FAULTS.  IF YOU ARE 100% PURE THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE ALIVE NOW WOULD YOU.. RON STOP CALLING EVERYONE YOU DISAGREE WITH NAZIS.. AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA.  YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO NON STOP BASH EITHER CHRISTIANS, OR CATHOLICS OR WHAT EVER IS HAPPENING IN EUROPE.  BY DOING THIS IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU BECAME A DISGRUNTLED NUT.  YOU KEEP THIS GOING AND PEOPLE WILL TURN AWAY AND THAT IS ONLY HELPING ENEMIES OUT.  I AM FED UP OF PEOPLE SAYING EVERY PRIEST OF REV. IS A RAPIST PEDOPHILE, THAT IS COMPLETELY NOT TRUE .  YA KNOW RESPECT WORKS ON BOTH WAYS YOU WANT PEOPLE TO RESPECT YOU BUT YOU ARE NOT SHOWING RESPECT TO OTHERS. I AM FAR FROM P.C. BUT YOU CAN'T CONDEMN EVERYONE FOR A HAND FULL RIGHT? CAN I CONDEMN THE JEWISH FAITH OR JEWS IN GENERAL CAUSE WE HAVE LETS SAY A MAYOR IN THIS CITY HE IS JEWISH WHO IS HANDING A CITY WHERE MUSLIMS TO ATTACKED TO MUSLIMS? NO CAUSE THAT IS INSANITY TALK AND YOU GOT YOURSELF INSANITY TALK THERE YOURSELF.. WHO HERE CAN BE HELD WHAT HAPPEN 60 YEARS BACK? I WAS NOT BORN AT THE TIME, IT WAS THE WORST NIGHTMARE TO EVER HAPPENED NO ONE IS DENYING THAT. BUT YOU ARE RUNNING ALL AROUND THIS FORUM CALLING EVERYONE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH A NAZI AND PEOPLE ARE NOT TAKING TOO KIND TO THAT LABELING YOU ARE GIVING OUT.

The only reason why Chaim Ben Pesach aka Chaim Ben Yosef aka Victor Vancier tolerates non-Jews on his forum is to get their “donations.” Of course Vancier just uses the donations to pay his rent. He’s unemployed because he’s an ex-con and the only way he can support himself is by being a parasite, which is typical for his blood-sucking race. 

Face it, greaseball, he’s using you and all the other goyim. It is a verifiable fact that southern Italians have Arab ancestry and that the mean southern Italian IQ is the same as that of Arabs. Southern Italy would be as poor as any Arab excrement hole if they weren’t leeching off of northern Italy and the rest of Europe. Also, the greatest Italian scientists all came from northern Italy namely Galileo, Da Vicni, Fibonacci, Avogadro, etc. He correctly views you Italians as the disgusting, genetically inferior Arab animals that you are.

Heres a live one.... Actually, jacka $$, I am the rich one here, and I take care of all of our finances, most of them.
Oh, you are not a 'goyim', indeed that is way too much of a compliment, you are an animal with very little typing skills.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Ari Ben-Canaan on September 20, 2010, 09:36:36 PM
To attack MasterWolf for being Italian makes no sense, it really stands out as something wrong.  I think MasterWolf is a great poster here at JTF, a loyalist, and has done nothing to deserve that kind of attack.  In addition, I can think of a few Italian-American friends I have a great amount of personal love for, and its no secret Rabbi Kahane, the old JDL, and Chaim himself have all had merited alliances and relationships with the Italian-American community.  Also calling MasterWolf "MasterWhore" is disappointing to see.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 09:38:29 PM
In Shapiro, we have your typical left wing cowardly Jew.  Shapiro was a coward yesterday.  He is a coward today and he will be a coward tomorrow.  He will die a coward.

He sounds like a typical leftist piece of garbage with his "2" comments all of a sudden.. hey lib pig do me a favor and clean out my cat's litter box..  your dinner in it awaits you
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: shapiro on September 20, 2010, 09:39:09 PM
Who the hell are you you filthy pig?? Another pos from Youtube that trolls itself to this forum from videos... You filthy Muslim pig or are you Ralph or a Stormfaggot which is it you coward. Garbage like you of all will never change the fact the love I have for Israel or my Jewish brothers and sisters regardless a few disagreements.

Some people are just born to be taken advantage of. You're a brainwashed moron. You can continue your blind support for the parasite known as the Jew and you will see how the Jew always stabs it's hosts in the back. Ron, the oven magnet, is just being honest. He's telling you what Vancier thinks but would never say. They think you're lower than dirt and in fact you are. Most Italian Americans are descendants of Southern Italians who have heavily mixed with Arabs.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lisa on September 20, 2010, 09:42:33 PM
Looks like Ralph is back again.  And out he goes.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 09:43:00 PM
Who the hell are you you filthy pig?? Another pos from Youtube that trolls itself to this forum from videos... You filthy Muslim pig or are you Ralph or a Stormfaggot which is it you coward. Garbage like you of all will never change the fact the love I have for Israel or my Jewish brothers and sisters regardless a few disagreements.

Some people are just born to be taken advantage of. You're a brainwashed moron. You can continue your blind support for the parasite known as the Jew and you will see how the Jew always stabs it's hosts in the back. Ron, the oven magnet, is just being honest. He's telling you what Vancier thinks but would never say. They think you're lower than dirt and in fact you are. Most Italian Americans are descendants of Southern Italians who have heavily mixed with Arabs.

And you are here cause you really have nothing better to do you leftist low dog?  You are a big piece of filth you know that. "Oven magnet" You Nazi Sh**head you you are a scumbag It is people like you that I love to trash the most you dirty low iq liberal muz bastard.. You are a dirty muslim camel jockey yes i said it camel jockey you filthy dirty sand trash .. I make piles in the toilet that is Mohammed and use the Koran to flush you dirty filthy towel headed scum of the earth..At least Ron has the guts to show himself you filthy Muzlim pile of dog crap
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 09:46:51 PM
Ralph can do me a favor and bark like a dog.. I am his Master he means nothing to me he is a typical leftist marxist low life,, and he will never divide us he can give it up no one is fooled by him.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: AsheDina on September 20, 2010, 09:49:53 PM
Who the hell are you you filthy pig?? Another pos from Youtube that trolls itself to this forum from videos... You filthy Muslim pig or are you Ralph or a Stormfaggot which is it you coward. Garbage like you of all will never change the fact the love I have for Israel or my Jewish brothers and sisters regardless a few disagreements.

Some people are just born to be taken advantage of. You're a brainwashed moron. You can continue your blind support for the parasite known as the Jew and you will see how the Jew always stabs it's hosts in the back. Ron, the oven magnet, is just being honest. He's telling you what Vancier thinks but would never say. They think you're lower than dirt and in fact you are. Most Italian Americans are descendants of Southern Italians who have heavily mixed with Arabs.

  Actually, shapiro, you are projecting.  When you accuse people of something, such as this 'brainwashing' garbage, it is usually the attacker, being yourself.

Nobody here 'begs' support and stabs people in the back.  Right here, moron, you can tell by the argument that its honesty here. Ron is a poor example of nastiness that has ZERO to do with him being a "Jew".  He is only a bad mannered little boy.

Funny that you always chose these times to attack, I notice this a lot with you.  You accuse, yet you backstab and conspire, lie in wait.



Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 20, 2010, 09:51:07 PM


A wise man doesn't need advice, and a fool doesn't heed advice.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 20, 2010, 10:02:11 PM
Hey "Shapiro" you can go suck a n_igg_eR's nose till its head caves in!     :P
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 10:03:15 PM
Hey "Shapiro" you can go suck a n_igg_eR's nose till its head caves in!     :P

Is that what the kids in the streets call it now?? :laugh:
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 20, 2010, 10:06:51 PM
ralph just can't stay away from this site.  He's a Jew-lover.

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: arnoldatlarge on September 20, 2010, 10:09:20 PM
And you are here cause you really have nothing better to do you leftist low dog?  You are a big piece of filth you know that. "Oven magnet" You Nazi Sh**head you you are a scumbag It is people like you that I love to trash the most you dirty low iq liberal muz bastard.. You are a dirty muslim camel jockey yes i said it camel jockey you filthy dirty sand trash .. I make piles in the toilet that is Mohammed and use the Koran to flush you dirty filthy towel headed scum of the earth..At least Ron has the guts to show himself you filthy Muzlim pile of dog crap

Filthy sandn.igger, what did you worthless, inferior, subhuman, greasy animals from southern Italy ever accomplish? You’re just like Blacks, Arabs and Puerto Ricans. Full of false pride. You animals look like Arabs, your mean IQ is at 85, you have no history, no culture, no civilization, no contributions to science, mathematics, art, science, nothing. All of that came from northern Italy. I challenge you to name on accomplishment that you animals ever made. You lowlife scum were the first third world immigrants to the United States. You infested this nation with organized crime just like Sicily was infested with it.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: arnoldatlarge on September 20, 2010, 10:10:06 PM
Is that what the kids in the streets call it now?? :laugh:

The fact that Vancier allows Ron, the oven magnet, to continue to insult you like the lowlife, slimy arab nazi terrorist that you are speaks volumes about what he thinks of you. The funny thing is that you’re a moderator and he’s not yet he can insult you and Vancier allows it.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: muman613 on September 20, 2010, 10:12:00 PM
This troll is utterly mindless... I think that its posts should just be deleted and it should be ignored. Eventually it will leave...

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 10:16:52 PM
This troll is utterly mindless... I think that its posts should just be deleted and it should be ignored. Eventually it will leave...



It is just Ralph showing he has really nothing going with his life but to hang around here.  He is a born loser and will always remain to be a loser. Yes he is a dirty sand muslim monkey Muslim lover.  I encourage Muslim lovers to "hike" in Iran. Ya dig?
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 10:19:43 PM
Odd Ralph is a closet homo and is attached to my leg.. Listen faggy bow down and kiss my feet ugly sand monkey .. I am the white guy you won't like .. You live in the ghettos of New Jersey yes ghetto sandjigga
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: AsheDina on September 20, 2010, 10:24:13 PM
Italians built the biggest city in the world; NYC. Most of Chicago as well.

This person probably has an Italian-Jewish g'f that dumped his sorry a $$
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: AsheDina on September 20, 2010, 10:26:13 PM
Masterwolf, this jerk off has a serious crush on you.
Damn, he follows you all over. Look how he targets you. Who the hell is this creep?
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: eb22 on September 20, 2010, 10:30:18 PM
This to me is just not true.   What situation are you referring to?  



pact with Rome against Greece, for example

And don't forget Egypt

Quote from: Isaiah 36:6
Behold, thou trustest upon the staff of this bruised reed, even upon Egypt; whereon if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it; so is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all that trust on him.


I thought he was speaking about JTF's history.

JTF is not a nation or a country.   And we as JTF have not allied with enemy countries or empires.  So I really can't see how it's relevant.


Kahane-Was-Right,    thank you for your efforts in this thread and in many other similar type of threads.    In my opinion,   you represent the type of leadership for the present and future that Chaim is seeking in JTF.      The late and great Rabbi Kahane would be very proud of your efforts.    You do an excellent job of passionately speaking up for Israel,   the Jewish people,   and the Jewish religion.    At the same time,   you appreciate the efforts of the non-Jewish JTF members,   making them feel they are an essential part of the movement.   Which they are!     G-d Bless you and your family!

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: DMAN on September 20, 2010, 10:41:01 PM
i have no problems against catholics or the christian faith. but the catholic church and christian fundementalists kind of annoy me.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 20, 2010, 10:50:45 PM
Masterwolf, this jerk off has a serious crush on you.
Damn, he follows you all over. Look how he targets you. Who the hell is this creep?

I always wanted a pet monkey when I was a kid,,now I get my very own pet sand monkey at the age of 35.  He is a talented sand monkey too he can put his own foot over his head to scratch his ear.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: nessuno on September 20, 2010, 11:56:48 PM
This to me is just not true.   What situation are you referring to?  



pact with Rome against Greece, for example

And don't forget Egypt

Quote from: Isaiah 36:6
Behold, thou trustest upon the staff of this bruised reed, even upon Egypt; whereon if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it; so is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all that trust on him.


I thought he was speaking about JTF's history.

JTF is not a nation or a country.   And we as JTF have not allied with enemy countries or empires.  So I really can't see how it's relevant.


Kahane-Was-Right,    thank you for your efforts in this thread and in many other similar type of threads.    In my opinion,   you represent the type of leadership for the present and future that Chaim is seeking in JTF.      The late and great Rabbi Kahane would be very proud of your efforts.    You do an excellent job of passionately speaking up for Israel,   the Jewish people,   and the Jewish religion.    At the same time,   you appreciate the efforts of the non-Jewish JTF members,   making them feel they are an essential part of the movement.   Which they are!     G-d Bless you and your family!


I agree.  Thank You.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: IsraelForever on September 20, 2010, 11:57:02 PM
Quote from: MasterWolf1
.......will never change the fact the love I have for Israel or my Jewish brothers and sisters regardless a few disagreements.
And this is why I love you, respect you and wish you all the very best in life.  And let me add that I just love to see non-Jews here who support us, Israel and the Jewish people.  There could never be enough people like you.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: muman613 on September 21, 2010, 12:00:54 AM
Indeed, the non Jewish members of JTF are in my opinion some of the most righteous people I know. I know it sounds odd to some, but I cannot say anything but good things about many of the non-Jewish members here.

It is obvious that we have a common enemy, and there is always the hope that by uniting to defeat the enemy we will achieve victory.

Surely the differences we have are minimized by the threat which we face, and by uniting more Jews and more pro-Israel non-Jews we should be able to do it.

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 21, 2010, 12:25:40 AM
Now the only question is whether the people who flamed in this thread will be met with any discipline.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: ~Hanna~ on September 21, 2010, 12:36:56 AM
 :laugh: :::D

 :clap: :clap:

Looks like Ralph is back again.  And out he goes.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Irish Zionist on September 21, 2010, 02:25:51 AM
I think Ron should be banned after the filthy attacks against Masterwolf, who is more than a valued member. How is him being called Masterwhore and calling Catholics Nazis helping JTF? He's also promoting bigotry against Italians. I really think Ron is retarded or a troll from StørmFrønt.

It's alright to disagree with JTF, but to promote hatred of Catholics is ridiculous.
Ron is a great Jew that tells the truth about how he feels and I respect him for that. Why can't we call the pope a Nazi when he calls for the destruction of Israel? He is no different from any other Nazi animal and unlike your average Nazi he has the power to help The Jewish People and chooses not to.

Ron is a valued member with great posts and he makes great video's for JTF and Hayamin. We need a Jewish hero like Ron in our movement. He is not a Nazi StørmFrønt troll. He is a wonderful Jew that tells the truth and who isn't politically correct. If someone is evil that speaks out against his people then he defends them.

Quote
Brian, Brian, Brian.. Truth and plain nastiness that brings division are 2 different things. NOBODY is questioning what he does for the HEBREW forum, but all that he does here, is make people, even OUR people feel like drek. It needs to STOP.

He does do video's for JTF also and makes very intelligent posts that people enjoy. What is so wrong in telling the truth about evil and defending good?

Quote
This young 17 yr old KID should go fight these animals on THEIR turf, instead of being an honorary here- AN HONORARY- and making us look stupid and hateful. Imagine this NASTY KID being an HONORARY! EMBARASSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is in Israel fighting the fight in his homeland.

Quote
I am blocking u now, I cannot abide your ugliness. What a TERRIBLE representation to love the foreigner and alien gentile. SICK!

So you choose the "foreigner and alien gentile" over your fellow Jew?

Quote
As far as the past with the NAZI pope, it is DUMB to try to make these people who were NOT even the responsible. With this Pope now- I dont know, and furthermore do not care. I know that Masterwolf LOVES my husband & He LOVES Israel & he ADORES Chaim.

Yes Masterwolf is a great member but Ron was only defending himself, as you know everyone is against him yet again.

Quote
It is also a loser left wing, Marxist, radical tactic to try to make Catholics responsible for things that happened 80 plus years ago..

I didn't see where he blamed all Catholics. He called the current Pope a Nazi which he is, so lets stop kidding ourselves here.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on September 21, 2010, 03:00:57 AM

Not that it matters much, but since I "defended" Ron in another thread before I read this one, I want to make it clear that I strongly disapprove of his offensive disrespectful behavior toward MasterWolf.
And, more generally, I resent his sweeping generalizations against Catholics, as I said before. I fully agree that this has to stop.

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on September 21, 2010, 03:57:03 AM

Let us just agree that the church has a history which needs to be forgiven.


No offense Muman, but I resent this statement, that I find surprisingly anti-Jewish by the way : no, the horrible crimes committed by people who claimed to represent catholicism although they were acting in contradiction with what Jesus taught, must NOT be forgiven.
This does not mean that I resent Catholics in general for what some of them did in the past. Personally, if it wasn't for a Catholic priest, I wouldn't be alive today. My grandfather was hidden and cared for by a Catholic priest during WWII. So I know what "righteous Gentile" means and I have the highest respect for righteous Gentiles.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Dr. Dan on September 21, 2010, 04:40:34 AM
Ok Dr Dan to the rescue:  only got to page 3 though

First off:  I LOVE PIZZA!  Wolf, take that as a complement! 

First off wolf, you have every right to be outraged for the insults given to you personally. The name calling is immature.

Ron, how old are you again?  Have you ever heard of bedside manner?  Don't just learn it for the sake of jtf but for your own sake when you get married and have children. Otherwise you will be a bitter nonaffective Jewish activist. Passion is good but controlling it for the right moments like chaim and meir kahane will make you more effective. Look st massuah's posts. Learn from him.

As far as Christianity and the pope etc. Well as a whole they have done terrible things to Jews or even want to but the Christians here don't do that and know it to be unchristian to them. To all the Christian jtfers I love you and honor all the hard work and support you give to us. Gd bless you.

Wolf I am personally embarrassed by Ron's diatribe and I'm sorry. I'm glad that so far on page 3 you have head yourself together. I give you kudos. Anyway back to the drama
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 21, 2010, 05:01:53 AM
בס''ד

Since I strongly criticized Ron for his comments, I think in fairness I should tell our members here why Ron is so popular on the Hebrew forum.

Ron devotes hours every day to promoting our movement in Israel:

1. Ron is the most active member of the Hebrew forum. His posts and articles are brilliantly composed especially when he writes in his native language Hebrew.

2. Ron helps us by creating videos and by disseminating our over 1500 Hebrew videos on zootube and flix. Many thousands of Israeli Jews are exposed to our message thanks to Ron. His videos have thousands of views.

3. Ron does an Ask JTF program in Hebrew and it is outstanding.

4. Ron is an active member of the Jerusalem chapter of HaYamin HaAmiti (JTF in Israel).

5. Ron and his friends defend our movement and the Kahanist ideology everywhere - on MSN, on Skype, on the internet, on other Israeli forums etc.

I disagree with what Ron writes sometimes on the English forum, but in Israel he truly is a hero.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: mord on September 21, 2010, 05:24:41 AM
Ron you know very little about Italy it's history and Genius in the Renaissance.Also it's history of saving Jews in spite of Mussolini even Mussolini wasn't anti Jewish. The Italian Army went out of it's way to save Jews during ww2  pick your article there are many

http://www.google.com/search?q=How+the+Italian+army+saved+Jews&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: TruthSpreader on September 21, 2010, 05:52:34 AM
WITH THE ON GOING NON STOP CHRISTIAN AND CATHOLIC BASHING THAT HAS GONE HERE FOR A WHILE.. IF WE KEEP THIS UP WE WILL BE DIVIDED AND THIS HELPS NO ONE.. THERE IS ONE THING TO POINT SOMETHING OUT BUT EVERYONE HAS HAD THEIR FAULTS.  IF YOU ARE 100% PURE THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE ALIVE NOW WOULD YOU.. RON STOP CALLING EVERYONE YOU DISAGREE WITH NAZIS.. AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA.  YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO NON STOP BASH EITHER CHRISTIANS, OR CATHOLICS OR WHAT EVER IS HAPPENING IN EUROPE.  BY DOING THIS IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU BECAME A DISGRUNTLED NUT.  YOU KEEP THIS GOING AND PEOPLE WILL TURN AWAY AND THAT IS ONLY HELPING ENEMIES OUT.  I AM FED UP OF PEOPLE SAYING EVERY PRIEST OF REV. IS A RAPIST PEDOPHILE, THAT IS COMPLETELY NOT TRUE .  YA KNOW RESPECT WORKS ON BOTH WAYS YOU WANT PEOPLE TO RESPECT YOU BUT YOU ARE NOT SHOWING RESPECT TO OTHERS. I AM FAR FROM P.C. BUT YOU CAN'T CONDEMN EVERYONE FOR A HAND FULL RIGHT? CAN I CONDEMN THE JEWISH FAITH OR JEWS IN GENERAL CAUSE WE HAVE LETS SAY A MAYOR IN THIS CITY HE IS JEWISH WHO IS HANDING A CITY WHERE MUSLIMS TO ATTACKED TO MUSLIMS? NO CAUSE THAT IS INSANITY TALK AND YOU GOT YOURSELF INSANITY TALK THERE YOURSELF.. WHO HERE CAN BE HELD WHAT HAPPEN 60 YEARS BACK? I WAS NOT BORN AT THE TIME, IT WAS THE WORST NIGHTMARE TO EVER HAPPENED NO ONE IS DENYING THAT. BUT YOU ARE RUNNING ALL AROUND THIS FORUM CALLING EVERYONE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH A NAZI AND PEOPLE ARE NOT TAKING TOO KIND TO THAT LABELING YOU ARE GIVING OUT.

The only reason why Chaim Ben Pesach aka Chaim Ben Yosef aka Victor Vancier tolerates non-Jews on his forum is to get their “donations.” Of course Vancier just uses the donations to pay his rent. He’s unemployed because he’s an ex-con and the only way he can support himself is by being a parasite, which is typical for his blood-sucking race. 

Face it, greaseball, he’s using you and all the other goyim. It is a verifiable fact that southern Italians have Arab ancestry and that the mean southern Italian IQ is the same as that of Arabs. Southern Italy would be as poor as any Arab excrement hole if they weren’t leeching off of northern Italy and the rest of Europe. Also, the greatest Italian scientists all came from northern Italy namely Galileo, Da Vicni, Fibonacci, Avogadro, etc. He correctly views you Italians as the disgusting, genetically inferior Arab animals that you are.

Look who decided to show up again. Do you really think Italians have Arab DNA? Do you?! 
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 21, 2010, 05:56:04 AM
Ron you know very little about Italy it's history and Genius in the Renaissance.Also it's history of saving Jews in spite of Mussolini even Mussolini wasn't anti Jewish. The Italian Army went out of it's way to save Jews during ww2  pick your article there are many

http://www.google.com/search?q=How+the+Italian+army+saved+Jews&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

בס''ד

Mord, it is one thing to defend Italians or Italian Americans. But now you are defending Fascist Italy which supported Hitler and the Nazis. You are even defending the Nazi monster Mussolini. To praise the fascist army of Italy is to defend Nazism and to engage in holocaust denial. Mussolini not only supported the extermination of the Jews, he murdered millions of his fellow Italians. Twenty percent of Italian Jewry were murdered, and the figure would be much higher had Italy not been defeated in 1943 before most of the holocaust had taken place. Here is one book that documents some of the anti-Jewish persecution that took place in fascist Italy:

http://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/2939.htm
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: mord on September 21, 2010, 06:03:40 AM
Ron you know very little about Italy it's history and Genius in the Renaissance.Also it's history of saving Jews in spite of Mussolini even Mussolini wasn't anti Jewish. The Italian Army went out of it's way to save Jews during ww2  pick your article there are many

http://www.google.com/search?q=How+the+Italian+army+saved+Jews&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

בס''ד

Mord, it is one thing to defend Italians or Italian Americans. But now you are defending Fascist Italy which supported Hitler and the Nazis. You are even defending the Nazi monster Mussolini. To praise the fascist army of Italy is to defend Nazism and to engage in holocaust denial. Mussolini not only supported the extermination of the Jews, he murdered millions of his fellow Italians. Twenty percent of Italian Jewry were murdered, and the figure would be much higher had Italy not been defeated in 1943 before most of the holocaust had taken place. Here is one book that documents some of the anti-Jewish persecution that took place in fascist Italy:

http://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/2939.htm
Yes i have seen that book but how do we explain this


http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 21, 2010, 06:36:12 AM
Ron you know very little about Italy it's history and Genius in the Renaissance.Also it's history of saving Jews in spite of Mussolini even Mussolini wasn't anti Jewish. The Italian Army went out of it's way to save Jews during ww2  pick your article there are many

http://www.google.com/search?q=How+the+Italian+army+saved+Jews&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

בס''ד

Mord, it is one thing to defend Italians or Italian Americans. But now you are defending Fascist Italy which supported Hitler and the Nazis. You are even defending the Nazi monster Mussolini. To praise the fascist army of Italy is to defend Nazism and to engage in holocaust denial. Mussolini not only supported the extermination of the Jews, he murdered millions of his fellow Italians. Twenty percent of Italian Jewry were murdered, and the figure would be much higher had Italy not been defeated in 1943 before most of the holocaust had taken place. Here is one book that documents some of the anti-Jewish persecution that took place in fascist Italy:

http://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/2939.htm
Yes i have seen that book but how do we explain this


http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf

בס''ד

Mord, Mussolini and Fascist Italy wanted Nazi Germany to win the war. Fascist Italy fought with Nazi Germany in many countries on several fronts. How can you defend supporters of Hitler and the Nazis, who assisted Germany during the holocaust?
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: mord on September 21, 2010, 06:49:24 AM
Ron you know very little about Italy it's history and Genius in the Renaissance.Also it's history of saving Jews in spite of Mussolini even Mussolini wasn't anti Jewish. The Italian Army went out of it's way to save Jews during ww2  pick your article there are many

http://www.google.com/search?q=How+the+Italian+army+saved+Jews&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

בס''ד

Mord, it is one thing to defend Italians or Italian Americans. But now you are defending Fascist Italy which supported Hitler and the Nazis. You are even defending the Nazi monster Mussolini. To praise the fascist army of Italy is to defend Nazism and to engage in holocaust denial. Mussolini not only supported the extermination of the Jews, he murdered millions of his fellow Italians. Twenty percent of Italian Jewry were murdered, and the figure would be much higher had Italy not been defeated in 1943 before most of the holocaust had taken place. Here is one book that documents some of the anti-Jewish persecution that took place in fascist Italy:

http://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/2939.htm
Yes i have seen that book but how do we explain this


http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf

בס''ד

Mord, Mussolini and Fascist Italy wanted Nazi Germany to win the war. Fascist Italy fought with Nazi Germany in many countries on several fronts. How can you defend supporters of Hitler and the Nazis, who assisted Germany during the holocaust?
Finland also fought against the Russians on Germany's side because Russia invaded Finland yet Finland told Germany it had Jewish soldiers in their Army and that the Finns would not allow Jewish Civilians or Soldiers to be harmed.When you come down to it Britain was just as much of an enemy of the Jews although allies of the U.S. as any other country in Europe.It blocked Jews from going to Israel.The U.S. as well stopped Jews from being allowed into the U.S. except for Scientists. 
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 21, 2010, 07:02:58 AM
Ron you know very little about Italy it's history and Genius in the Renaissance.Also it's history of saving Jews in spite of Mussolini even Mussolini wasn't anti Jewish. The Italian Army went out of it's way to save Jews during ww2  pick your article there are many

http://www.google.com/search?q=How+the+Italian+army+saved+Jews&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

בס''ד

Mord, it is one thing to defend Italians or Italian Americans. But now you are defending Fascist Italy which supported Hitler and the Nazis. You are even defending the Nazi monster Mussolini. To praise the fascist army of Italy is to defend Nazism and to engage in holocaust denial. Mussolini not only supported the extermination of the Jews, he murdered millions of his fellow Italians. Twenty percent of Italian Jewry were murdered, and the figure would be much higher had Italy not been defeated in 1943 before most of the holocaust had taken place. Here is one book that documents some of the anti-Jewish persecution that took place in fascist Italy:

http://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/2939.htm
Yes i have seen that book but how do we explain this


http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf

בס''ד

Mord, Mussolini and Fascist Italy wanted Nazi Germany to win the war. Fascist Italy fought with Nazi Germany in many countries on several fronts. How can you defend supporters of Hitler and the Nazis, who assisted Germany during the holocaust?
Finland also fought against the Russians on Germany's side because Russia invaded Finland yet Finland told Germany it had Jewish soldiers in their Army and that the Finns would not allow Jewish Civilians or Soldiers to be harmed.When you come down to it Britain was just as much of an enemy of the Jews although allies of the U.S. as any other country in Europe.It blocked Jews from going to Israel.The U.S. as well stopped Jews from being allowed into the U.S. except for Scientists. 

בס''ד

Any Jew who fought in the Finn army had to be a sick traitor.

Any army that supported Hitler and/or fought on the side of Hitler committed an unforgivable crime.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: mord on September 21, 2010, 07:08:14 AM
Ron you know very little about Italy it's history and Genius in the Renaissance.Also it's history of saving Jews in spite of Mussolini even Mussolini wasn't anti Jewish. The Italian Army went out of it's way to save Jews during ww2  pick your article there are many

http://www.google.com/search?q=How+the+Italian+army+saved+Jews&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

בס''ד

Mord, it is one thing to defend Italians or Italian Americans. But now you are defending Fascist Italy which supported Hitler and the Nazis. You are even defending the Nazi monster Mussolini. To praise the fascist army of Italy is to defend Nazism and to engage in holocaust denial. Mussolini not only supported the extermination of the Jews, he murdered millions of his fellow Italians. Twenty percent of Italian Jewry were murdered, and the figure would be much higher had Italy not been defeated in 1943 before most of the holocaust had taken place. Here is one book that documents some of the anti-Jewish persecution that took place in fascist Italy:

http://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/2939.htm
Yes i have seen that book but how do we explain this


http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%204803.pdf

בס''ד

Mord, Mussolini and Fascist Italy wanted Nazi Germany to win the war. Fascist Italy fought with Nazi Germany in many countries on several fronts. How can you defend supporters of Hitler and the Nazis, who assisted Germany during the holocaust?
Finland also fought against the Russians on Germany's side because Russia invaded Finland yet Finland told Germany it had Jewish soldiers in their Army and that the Finns would not allow Jewish Civilians or Soldiers to be harmed.When you come down to it Britain was just as much of an enemy of the Jews although allies of the U.S. as any other country in Europe.It blocked Jews from going to Israel.The U.S. as well stopped Jews from being allowed into the U.S. except for Scientists. 

בס''ד

Any Jew who fought in the Finn army had to be a sick traitor.

Any army that supported Hitler and/or fought on the side of Hitler committed an unforgivable crime.
You're right but it happened
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: nessuno on September 21, 2010, 07:30:19 AM
Irish Zionist you said ~
Yes Masterwolf is a great member but Ron was only defending himself, as you know everyone is against him yet again.

I respect Ron.  He stands behind his beliefs.  He is not 'two faced' about them.  All his cards are on the table.  I'm not always against what he says.  It's how he goes about saying it.  You have to admit that the ways in which he attacked MasterWolf were uncalled for and immature.
That does great damage to JTF.  No matter how you slice it.  As a Catholic Italian American, after yesterday,  I could chalk being a member here up to being a huge mistake.  I just know how important the work being done by Chaim  and the JTF is.

Ron's misplaced hatred, against Christian members here, seems insignificant in the grand scheme of things.


Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: ~Hanna~ on September 21, 2010, 07:54:46 AM
True.
Perhaps Ron is just a way to help us Christians get toughened up a bit, cuz it's only gonna get alot worse.

We do love you, Ron.

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Rubystars on September 21, 2010, 07:58:28 AM
True.
Perhaps Ron is just a way to help us Christians get toughened up a bit, cuz it's only gonna get alot worse.

We do love you, Ron.

I don't hate Ron but I certainly hate his nasty attitude.

Irish Zionist, how can you be friends with someone who hates Christians? Are you a self-hating Christian?
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: TheCoon on September 21, 2010, 08:26:56 AM
True.
Perhaps Ron is just a way to help us Christians get toughened up a bit, cuz it's only gonna get alot worse.

We do love you, Ron.

I don't hate Ron but I certainly hate his nasty attitude.

Irish Zionist, how can you be friends with someone who hates Christians? Are you a self-hating Christian?

I'm going to guess Irish Zionist is Protestant and has negative feelings towards Catholics from the years of problems in Ireland. I might be wrong and if so I apologize.

What's sick to me is that in the Bible there are verses which clearly forbid Christians from persecuting or even looking down on Jews. You're supposed to support them regardless of whether they believe in Christ. I really can't speak for why the churches in the past hated the Jews so much. I suppose it's because they wanted power and used the Jews as a scapegoat like Hitler did to achieve it.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: muman613 on September 21, 2010, 08:35:43 AM

Let us just agree that the church has a history which needs to be forgiven.


No offense Muman, but I resent this statement, that I find surprisingly anti-Jewish by the way : no, the horrible crimes committed by people who claimed to represent catholicism although they were acting in contradiction with what Jesus taught, must NOT be forgiven.
This does not mean that I resent Catholics in general for what some of them did in the past. Personally, if it wasn't for a Catholic priest, I wouldn't be alive today. My grandfather was hidden and cared for by a Catholic priest during WWII. So I know what "righteous Gentile" means and I have the highest respect for righteous Gentiles.

There is nothing anti-Jewish in what I said. I said that the Church needs to ask for our forgiveness, apologize for its evil ways, and remove the offensive sections which inspired so much anti-semitism. I have seen that the NT is full of anti-semitic contents. The Jews are called sons of devils, amongst other things. When I was young I had a school-mate who told me because I was Jewish I was going to hell, my mom was told that she had horns when she was a child... The antisemitism which is in the NT is disgusting...

As long as the church teaches the NT to its congregants there will be continued antisemitism.

I think this is not anti-Jewish, it is standing up for the Jewish people against the taught antisemitism of christianity..

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 21, 2010, 08:46:12 AM
בס''ד

Since I strongly criticized Ron for his comments, I think in fairness I should tell our members here why Ron is so popular on the Hebrew forum.

Ron devotes hours every day to promoting our movement in Israel:

1. Ron is the most active member of the Hebrew forum. His posts and articles are brilliantly composed especially when he writes in his native language Hebrew.

2. Ron helps us by creating videos and by disseminating our over 1500 Hebrew videos on zootube and flix. Many thousands of Israeli Jews are exposed to our message thanks to Ron. His videos have thousands of views.

3. Ron does an Ask JTF program in Hebrew and it is outstanding.

4. Ron is an active member of the Jerusalem chapter of HaYamin HaAmiti (JTF in Israel).

5. Ron and his friends defend our movement and the Kahanist ideology everywhere - on MSN, on Skype, on the internet, on other Israeli forums etc.

I disagree with what Ron writes sometimes on the English forum, but in Israel he truly is a hero.
Chaim, I agree with essentially everything Ron says on non-Christian issues, and I have urged people to see the best in him and remember his youth and different background than us, but he was was completely out of control and something needs to be done about it.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: mord on September 21, 2010, 08:50:26 AM
You know many Jews talk that way  about other Jews even today.Example if i were to tell you how i feel about leftist anti Israel Jews and deformed Jews as well as nuturei karta Jews you would be stunned.It would make the Christian testament seem mild
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 21, 2010, 08:51:40 AM
Mord, Mussolini and Fascist Italy wanted Nazi Germany to win the war. Fascist Italy fought with Nazi Germany in many countries on several fronts. How can you defend supporters of Hitler and the Nazis, who assisted Germany during the holocaust?
You are absolutely correct but I think it's worth pointing out that Italy's participation in fascism as a nation was much more halfhearted than the other Axis. Mussolini was not democratically elected in a landslide like Adolf Hitler; he bamboozled the Italian king into appointing him dictator. Any historian will point out the very mediocre performance of the Italian army in WWII--that doesn't mean that what they did was okay, but it does show that they were quite a bit less committed to their Nazi leaders than German, Japanese, Croat, or Ukrainian soldiers were. They gave up in 1943, and from there on out Mussolini was incapable of ruling any Italians--he needed the Germans to give him a small puppet state that they themselves controlled. In the end, he was torn limb from limb by his own people.

That doesn't mean that Fascist Italy was not evil, it just means that Italy as a nation and people was not evil to the core in the same way that Germany was/is.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 21, 2010, 09:01:37 AM
Finland also fought against the Russians on Germany's side because Russia invaded Finland yet Finland told Germany it had Jewish soldiers in their Army and that the Finns would not allow Jewish Civilians or Soldiers to be harmed.When you come down to it Britain was just as much of an enemy of the Jews although allies of the U.S. as any other country in Europe.It blocked Jews from going to Israel.The U.S. as well stopped Jews from being allowed into the U.S. except for Scientists. 
Finland was probably the least anti-Semitic of the Axis but I remember that there was at least one big Finnish general who handed over the names of all Jewish Finns to the Germans, or at least tried to. I think the only reason the Final Solution never came to Finland was because the Germans were so severely overstretched by that time of the war and the Finns were very busy fighting the Russians too.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 21, 2010, 09:05:31 AM
Chaim,

As long as your goal is having JTF winning one Pyrrhic Victory after another, then you have a great hero at your side.

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 21, 2010, 09:18:13 AM
Re:  "We do love you, Ron. "

Speak for yourself.

Ever wonder where the term "loose canon" originated?
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: TheCoon on September 21, 2010, 09:22:45 AM

Let us just agree that the church has a history which needs to be forgiven.


No offense Muman, but I resent this statement, that I find surprisingly anti-Jewish by the way : no, the horrible crimes committed by people who claimed to represent catholicism although they were acting in contradiction with what Jesus taught, must NOT be forgiven.
This does not mean that I resent Catholics in general for what some of them did in the past. Personally, if it wasn't for a Catholic priest, I wouldn't be alive today. My grandfather was hidden and cared for by a Catholic priest during WWII. So I know what "righteous Gentile" means and I have the highest respect for righteous Gentiles.

There is nothing anti-Jewish in what I said. I said that the Church needs to ask for our forgiveness, apologize for its evil ways, and remove the offensive sections which inspired so much anti-semitism. I have seen that the NT is full of anti-semitic contents. The Jews are called sons of devils, amongst other things. When I was young I had a school-mate who told me because I was Jewish I was going to hell, my mom was told that she had horns when she was a child... The antisemitism which is in the NT is disgusting...

As long as the church teaches the NT to its congregants there will be continued antisemitism.

I think this is not anti-Jewish, it is standing up for the Jewish people against the taught antisemitism of christianity..

The Jews are not called sons of the devil. The early Jews went to Jesus and claimed they didn't need to accept him because they were descended from Abraham. The point Jesus was making is that regardless of who you are descended from, you still share the original sin. The "sons of devils" comment is placed on mankind, not just the Jews. In Christian view we all share in the original sin, Jews, Christians, everyone. Jesus made this point to test the faith of those who said they believed in him. John's Gospel explains the relationship between Jesus and his early followers and Jesus' "growth" from man, to prophet to the son of G-d. When Jesus heals the blind man, it symbolizes his humility and he sees Jesus and believes in him. The others don't agree they need to believe in Jesus to be cleansed like the blind man was and that is why they are still considered slaves to sin. Keep in mind the blind man was also Jew, so in no way can it be believed Jesus was saying Jews have some demonic piece of them which makes them evil.

As for persecuting Jews, the NT clearly forbids it in Romans. G-d is compared to an olive tree. It compares Christians to new growth branches and Jews branches that have fallen from the tree. It teaches that G-d's kindness "grafted" you into the tree and you must continue that kindness and not persecute the fallen branches because that is not emulating G-d. In fact, it says that if you persecute unbelievers(in a Christian sense), you become one yourself and will be cut off from the tree. You must always be kind to the Jews. It continues to state that the Jews are eternally loved by G-d because of his covenant with the Patriarchs.

I think unfortunately your opinion on the matter is clouded by awful experiences you had as a youngster. In no way does the NT condone people persecuting Jews.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: nessuno on September 21, 2010, 09:28:42 AM

Let us just agree that the church has a history which needs to be forgiven.


No offense Muman, but I resent this statement, that I find surprisingly anti-Jewish by the way : no, the horrible crimes committed by people who claimed to represent catholicism although they were acting in contradiction with what Jesus taught, must NOT be forgiven.
This does not mean that I resent Catholics in general for what some of them did in the past. Personally, if it wasn't for a Catholic priest, I wouldn't be alive today. My grandfather was hidden and cared for by a Catholic priest during WWII. So I know what "righteous Gentile" means and I have the highest respect for righteous Gentiles.

There is nothing anti-Jewish in what I said. I said that the Church needs to ask for our forgiveness, apologize for its evil ways, and remove the offensive sections which inspired so much anti-semitism. I have seen that the NT is full of anti-semitic contents. The Jews are called sons of devils, amongst other things. When I was young I had a school-mate who told me because I was Jewish I was going to hell, my mom was told that she had horns when she was a child... The antisemitism which is in the NT is disgusting...

As long as the church teaches the NT to its congregants there will be continued antisemitism.

I think this is not anti-Jewish, it is standing up for the Jewish people against the taught antisemitism of christianity..


I don't know what you are talking about, Muman.
I went to 8 years of Catholic school.  I never heard that Jews were going to hell and that they have horns.  :o  Stop spreading this disinformation.
My wonderful parents are the main reasons why I love the Jewish people and I am very pro Israel.  Still, the church did nothing to diminish my respect for the Jewish faith. 
You make a very good effort at it though.
See - that is why I can take Ron.  He doesn't pretend to be 'tolerant'...then come up with this divisive garbage.

Most Italian Catholics I know get along very well with Jewish people.  We have strong family and religious values in common. 
 >:(
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 21, 2010, 09:38:38 AM
bullcat3:  "Ron's misplaced hatred, against Christian members here, seems insignificant in the grand scheme of things. "

There are only two ancient civilizations today which have survived to the present day:  the Jews and the Chinese.

Both have done so maintaining a continuous history and culture, and both have arrived at the present time with their national languages still intact.

We Jews should learn a lesson from the Chinese which they've known for quite some time:

Only history decides and judges the significance of leadership and government 'in the great scheme of things'.

The work of Chaim and JTF may well come to be viewed as a mere footnote in future written histories, one marked with the briefest of mentions as to how errors in judgment combined with organizational missteps, resulting in the complete failure of a movement founded on Jewish values.

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: nessuno on September 21, 2010, 09:49:18 AM
MassuhDGoodName - I agree that the Jewish people should maintain their history and culture.  I agree.   
As to whether an alliance between Jews and Gentiles, here, will diminish that in anyway.
You are right. Only time will tell.

I see time as short.  The situation is dire.

I would not like to be perceived as an enemy to Jewish people, only as an ally in their preservation...and my child's.

I hope I responded to your point.


Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: muman613 on September 21, 2010, 09:53:55 AM
Christianity is not compatible with Judaism. It is considered a foreign worship by Jews. There is no way that we will agree about the nature of G-d, the mission of the Jewish nation, and the covenant which exists to this day between Hashem and his people..

The only reason we are working together is that christians have a slightly different idea of the end of days than the Jewish people. We both agree that the Jews must be in Israel...


Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: TheCoon on September 21, 2010, 09:58:51 AM
Christianity is not compatible with Judaism. It is considered a foreign worship by Jews. There is no way that we will agree about the nature of G-d, the mission of the Jewish nation, and the covenant which exists to this day between Hashem and his people..

The only reason we are working together is that christians have a slightly different idea of the end of days than the Jewish people. We both agree that the Jews must be in Israel...

How does it's "compatibility" with Judaism have anything to do with promoting hatred of Jews? Obviously we can't agree on those issue because then there would be no difference in the two faiths. The point is, there's no logic in thinking the NT promotes anti-semitism because it doesn't. Those who used the NT to promote anti-semitism were clearly violating its teachings. No one is denying that Christians have done horrible things to Jews, but to claim Jesus and his apostles validated those actions is simply not true as I have shown.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: muman613 on September 21, 2010, 10:00:54 AM
Interesting discussion of Christian blood libels against Jews:

http://www.milknhoney.co.il/torah/hachodesh_blood_libel.html



Shabat Hachodesh - Another Blood Libel


    Shemot 12-8
    You should eat the meat on this night roasted on a fire and they must
    eat it on Matzah and Bitter herbs.

For at least a couple of thousand years many, even the vast majority of gentiles believed that the Jews needed Gentile blood to fulfill  the Mitzvah of eating Matzah.

More fascinating than the fact that simple people believed this is that educated and open minded people believed it. Indeed it is these  people who lead the Pogroms, Inquisitions and Holocausts which cold bloodedly murdered millions of Jews.

We need  to understand the current types of Anti-Semitism and its new incarnation in the form of Anti-Israelism.  How Anti-Semites used to think is very important for this understanding. A very brief survey of how anti-Semites used to think will have to do:  Jews are lazy. They use guile instead of work to oppress others and to suppress the entire world. The extremist Anti-Semites even  believed that the Elders of Zion gather to discuss the method by which Jews will take over the world.

Part of this Jewish plot to conquer the world is the poisoning of gentile drinking water which causes the plague.

The Jews are obstinate in lying about the fact that Jesus was the  savior. On this subject  I recently perused the internet for ordinary references to Jews by Christian theologians. One need not look far or deep to find TERRIBLY Anti-Semitic references within even the tameist of Christian babbling.

I found one [which I forgot to link - but you can search for it] which a doozy:

   We know the Jews saw these things without seeing them fulfilled in Christ, for they rejected Him.

And another at:
http://www.poconos.net/~reformed/books/calvin-zephaniah.html This is written by Calvin of theologian  fame. It refers to the
rebukes of the Prophet Tzephania:
 

   ...but the Jews in this case, according to their manner, deal in trifles; for in things unknown they hesitate not to assert what comes to their minds, though it may not have the least appearance of truth.

In other words "Jews know the truth of Jesus but in their love for Evil they deny him"

Recently certain churches have tried to come closer to Israel. As part of this effort they wish to Saintify (canonize) Hitler's
supporters. They deny the churches happiness that the Nazis had finally done their religious calling in the Final Solution. Instead
they make these Silent Murderers into Jew protectors and saviors of oppressed Jews.

It is their book which is the source of Christian Anti-Semitism which has spread its claws way outside the realms of religion.
The Pharisees were the holy people preceding the Mishnaic era. We are all their descendants and Jesus' attitude towards them
quickly became church  attitude towards us. Just to quote a few:
 

   Matthew:
   Woe Unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like whited sepulchers which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanliness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but inwardly ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

    Matthew:

   But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

That is to say the Jews are hypocrites and vipers.

The following claims that we are not even Jews but represent everything that is Evil:

   John:
   ... and the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

It is not a blood libel against the NT to say that its attitude  incited the murder of many Jews. Its readers read the simple meaning of the text. Its leaders pontificated about the evil Jew and its plays used the Jew as the symbol of evil and the partner with Satan.

A good example of how this text became representative of the common
attitude towards Jews is from The Devil and Jews - Trachtenberg, pg. 25:

   In one of these legends when an impoverished Christian in desperation calls to the Devil for help a Jew suddenly appears and offers to aid him if he will deny Jesus.


The Jew is the analogy for anything evil. We see this often enough in Classic Literature like Shakespeare and Fagin in Dickens' Oliver Twist.

As you all know I have not even touched the surface or even discussed the equivalent of Mustard seed relative to vast amount of hatred, murder  and paranoia instigated against the Jews who were always a minority in any place.

In our  Post Holocaust era we have finally been given by G-d our own land. In this era in the Western world it is becoming a little uncouth to cite the above dribble and to use it against small or large Jewish communities. Although, messengers of the Palestinian Authority and it associative organizations have been known to bomb Jewish community centers throughout the world.

In its place has come the very popular Anti-Israelism. Any official representative of the Jewish state is viewed as a manipulator.

The Arab world, its local press and certain oil hungry Arab puppet politicians (like George Bush and James Baker) have taken
the place of the Church to act against the Zionist plot to bring insecurity and death to the region and to the world.

Before Benjamin Netanyahu was compared to a Nazi in the official Egyptian  news it was none other than, Mr Appease the
Gentiles himself, Shimon Peres whose government was thusly compared. You will remember that it is the Nazi's who are famous for murdering six million Jews and many millions of others.

Although we have known it all along European Social researchers have found that Israeli Arabs and more so their Palestinian brethren seriously believe that Hitler was the greatest leader of this century. During WWII they actively supported Hitler against the occupying Mandatory  English.

Ahh... now on to the English. Many Palestinian Jews (as they were called by the British) happily volunteered to join the Royal
forces in their fight against Hitler. This volunteerism was, and still is, viewed by the English as a free ride to learning military
skills which they planned to use against the English to eventually banish them from our country.

Foreign Ministers of England and all of Europe have felt for the last fifty years that it is their  duty to protect the "indigenous"
Palestinian population from the invading, cold hearted, plotting, Israelis.

The attitude is "Israel knows the truth of its  Evil plots to bring unrest to the world  yet they  deny this." Israel tries to deny the
basic right of the Arabs to fulfill the Christian wish to rid the world of the deniers of Christ. OK, it is not that clear a connection
but it is part of the Anti-Israeli subconscious. However, we have no right to cause unemployment while trying to prevent suicide bombers from killing ordinary people on their way.

It is very common for Arab Newspapers, especially Palestinian ones, to cite the same old Antisemitic stuff:

The Israelis have polluted the Palestinian water system causing fatal infections to the population.

Israeli prostitutes are sent by the Mosad to give AIDS to Palestinian men.

A new flip on the "Jews have desecrated..."
By opening the tunnel (next to the Temple Mount) the Israelis have desecrated....

More unbelievable, although we are used to it, is the Anti-Israelism of  Liberals and Humanitarian organizations. Of  course we can not forget their good old Anti-Semitism of yore.

Such groups as the Quakers - Society of Friends which preach anti-violence can never find it in their Plethora of denouncements of Israel to even once denounce the Barbaric murder of school children and many other people who did nothing other than the sin of being born Israeli (Jewish).

Even worse than this many "pacifists" find room within their hearts to understand an insane theology which encourages murder and barbarity. However, their small minds can not understand why Israel feels that it needs the most modern and sophisticated equipment to protect its population. Such protection is viewed as Destabilization of the region and acts of aggression.

I have been known to say that it is upon the Gentiles much more than us to "Remember and Never Forget" the Holocaust and the thousands of years of anti Semitism which Christianity encourages. If I manage to forget the tortures of the Inquisition, Crusades, Pogroms  and the Holocaust little will happen.

Gentile denial, playing it down or just simply forgetting seems to be very dangerous for Israel/The Jews. The Palestinians deny it and they want to butcher us whenever they can.

Let us not forget The Church. I refer to any church from the Anglican to the Vatican to the Orthodox. They are no different in their source for Israel and Jewish Hatred. They believe that they have done us a favor by allowing us to live after murdering and denying Christ.

The second chapter of Sefer Tehilim starts:

    Why do the gentiles quake? Why do the Nations meditate empty thoughts.  All of kings of the land and important people form  closed committees against G-d and against his anointed.

Pesukim like these refer to The United Nations [Against Israel.] (UNAI)  For no logical reason they constantly pass motions against Israel. A million people can be murdered in Africa, India, the Far East or even central Europe yet at best they come up with a couple of  motions against these  Genocidal maniacs. However, if an Israeli harms someone in self defense the entire UNAI decides that Israel must be totally controlled.

Additionally, we can give honorable mention to modern Neo-Nazis. They have come up with the most inteligent kind of Anti-Semitism. "The Jews of today are not realy Jews." Therefor, they have no right to the land of Israel. They base this on a legend that at one time The Kazar empire which was somewhere around the Caucuses converted to Judaism. Since the Jewish people are decended from these people they have no right to settle the land. Additionally, the liers who are not really Jewish should be slaughtered for oppressing the innocent Palistinians. These people have many site on the web. They are always moving around. If you want to find them look to keywords: evisionist, kazar, holocaust denial and others.

The Hagadah says that in every generation they come up against Israel to eliminate us. Do not be mislead to believe that the modern world has freed itself of the blood libels. They have simply renamed them.

Also read my experiences in the city of  Prague

mailto:[email protected]
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 21, 2010, 10:09:23 AM
All,

I'm still waiting for it to be explained what the matzo blood libel and other historic Nazi lies have to do with the NT. All that pogroms and inquisitions prove is that the majority of humans are horrible, evil people. Unless somehow we JTF Christians have some time-travel capabilities and/or persecuted Jews in past lives, this is getting really old and pathetic. Some individuals really must assume that if Europe had just stayed pagan it would have been philo-Semitic all along. Yeah, like the Romans were so pro-Jewish. ROTFLMAO. Please guys, get some new material.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 21, 2010, 10:20:12 AM

Let us just agree that the church has a history which needs to be forgiven.


No offense Muman, but I resent this statement, that I find surprisingly anti-Jewish by the way : no, the horrible crimes committed by people who claimed to represent catholicism although they were acting in contradiction with what Jesus taught, must NOT be forgiven.
This does not mean that I resent Catholics in general for what some of them did in the past. Personally, if it wasn't for a Catholic priest, I wouldn't be alive today. My grandfather was hidden and cared for by a Catholic priest during WWII. So I know what "righteous Gentile" means and I have the highest respect for righteous Gentiles.

There is nothing anti-Jewish in what I said. I said that the Church needs to ask for our forgiveness, apologize for its evil ways, and remove the offensive sections which inspired so much anti-semitism. I have seen that the NT is full of anti-semitic contents. The Jews are called sons of devils, amongst other things. When I was young I had a school-mate who told me because I was Jewish I was going to hell, my mom was told that she had horns when she was a child... The antisemitism which is in the NT is disgusting...

As long as the church teaches the NT to its congregants there will be continued antisemitism.

I think this is not anti-Jewish, it is standing up for the Jewish people against the taught antisemitism of christianity..


I don't know what you are talking about, Muman.
I went to 8 years of Catholic school.  I never heard that Jews were going to hell and that they have horns.  :o  Stop spreading this disinformation.
My wonderful parents are the main reasons why I love the Jewish people and I am very pro Israel.  Still, the church did nothing to diminish my respect for the Jewish faith. 
You make a very good effort at it though.
See - that is why I can take Ron.  He doesn't pretend to be 'tolerant'...then come up with this divisive garbage.

Most Italian Catholics I know get along very well with Jewish people.  We have strong family and religious values in common. 
 >:(

Bullcat, neither have I, I spent 12 years in the Catholic school system. And each religious hour we were told to love the Jews.. There are plenty of self hating Christians and Catholics out there who do not represent our actual teachings. Yes there are a lot of problems within the Church.. But to bash people who don't agree and labeling them a Nazi that is highly offensive.  But I have never in the 12 years heard our Bishop or our Nuns who were our teachers taught us anything that was in the form of being anti semitism.  Both sides have their differences on how they believe their faith, and that is fine I have no problem in that, never did.  But to have someone coming aboard and constant spewing such "hatred" shows he is very closed minded.  Now I am always recruiting people to this movement.  The majority comes from the states cause this is the English forum. If they see someone calling anybody who is a Christian or Catholic even though they fully are willing to stand together with the Jewish people and save Israel well they are going to say "Well what am I doing here?"
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 21, 2010, 10:28:38 AM

Yes Masterwolf is a great member but Ron was only defending himself, as you know everyone is against him yet again.

Bryan, I am not "against Ron."

That said, I am against anti-Italian slurs - I don't think they have a place on this forum - and I don't think it's called for to lash out against people personally if there's a disagreement about something unless they personally express nazi or nazi-like views.  I think it gets excessive to ascribe these views to people based on their ethnicity, if they never expressed the view themself.  

There are loads of antisemites out there, I see them in facebook all the time.  Western antisemites - american, british, all kinds.   And they say really disgusting things in favor of their pet-Arabs and "Palestine" against Jews, commenting on my friends' walls and posts.    The people here can't be blamed for spouting those views if the people here don't spout them!   Certainly I think all JTF'ers would strongly disagree with views like the ones I'm referring to, when I see those comments in facebook.  It's not fair to imply that secretly or otherwise, the JTF'ers really hold those views.    Unless some individual person exhibits that demonstrably, that is an insane accusation.

If you say Ron was saying things in self defense, then you can make the same argument for Masterwolf saying things for himself and we get nowhere.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: mord on September 21, 2010, 10:35:10 AM
I will use this quote...[ and the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan] when i'm amongst reformed 'deformed Jews as well as anti Israel Jews
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 21, 2010, 10:41:59 AM
I will use this quote...[ and the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan] when i'm amongst reformed 'deformed Jews as well as anti Israel Jews
It is entirely possible that the Apostle John was referring to an ancient equivalent of Deform Jews when he wrote that.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: mord on September 21, 2010, 10:43:14 AM
I will use this quote...[ and the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan] when i'm amongst reformed 'deformed Jews as well as anti Israel Jews
It is entirely possible that the Apostle John was referring to an ancient equivalent of Deform Jews when he wrote that.
Dick silverstein ancestors
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: TheCoon on September 21, 2010, 10:43:30 AM
Muman, can you address my previous post on this page? You posted this long message board post that has so much nonsense on it that has nothing to do with supposed Christian NT anti-semitism.

As for this statement:

"and the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."

This refers to condemning the pharisees who were in league with Rome. The pharisees of the time worked with Rome to achieve special status where they didn't have to pay taxes or do military service. Jews were exempt from supporting the official Roman religion while Christians were persecuted for refusing to pay taxes or serving. John was referring to the religious heirarchy of Smyrna and when he says "that say they are Jews, and they are not" in that they were being loyal to Rome instead of G-d. Rome is the Satan John refers to and he is saying the pharisees were betraying their faith by making deals and basically snitching on the Christians to the Roman authorities for special treatment.

Matthew:
Woe Unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like whited sepulchers which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanliness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but inwardly ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Matthew:
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?


This refers to John baptizing people at the Jordan. The pharisees/sadducees went to see what he was doing, because it was much alike Jewish ritual cleansings. He rebuked them because they refused to accept Christ and repent for their sins and that they could not receive baptism until they did so. Again, we are ALL full of hypocrisy, iniquity and evil and the Christian belief is that we accept Christ to absolve us of these sins. I fail to see how this encouraged anti-semitism. It's simply a theological disagreement.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on September 21, 2010, 10:43:51 AM

Let us just agree that the church has a history which needs to be forgiven.


No offense Muman, but I resent this statement, that I find surprisingly anti-Jewish by the way : no, the horrible crimes committed by people who claimed to represent catholicism although they were acting in contradiction with what Jesus taught, must NOT be forgiven.
This does not mean that I resent Catholics in general for what some of them did in the past. Personally, if it wasn't for a Catholic priest, I wouldn't be alive today. My grandfather was hidden and cared for by a Catholic priest during WWII. So I know what "righteous Gentile" means and I have the highest respect for righteous Gentiles.

There is nothing anti-Jewish in what I said. I said that the Church needs to ask for our forgiveness, apologize for its evil ways, and remove the offensive sections which inspired so much anti-semitism. I have seen that the NT is full of anti-semitic contents. The Jews are called sons of devils, amongst other things. When I was young I had a school-mate who told me because I was Jewish I was going to hell, my mom was told that she had horns when she was a child... The antisemitism which is in the NT is disgusting...

As long as the church teaches the NT to its congregants there will be continued antisemitism.

I think this is not anti-Jewish, it is standing up for the Jewish people against the taught antisemitism of christianity..



All right, I misunderstood what you wrote. I agree with what you write here. By the way, here is another anecdote similar to those you tell : due to complicated circumstances, my mother had to spend one year at a catholic school when she was fourteen; no other girl would talk to her or invite her; she was told that she was guilty of the murder of Jesus... The teachers did try to lecture the girls but that did not make much difference.
Another anecdote. Last summer, I visited a church in France. There was an exhibition inside the church about recent history : Arafat was presented as a hero ! No mention was made of all the wars and terror initiated by the Arabs against tiny Israel. But, in big bold characters, you could read that the Jews had massacred Arabs in 1994 (a reference to Baruch Goldstein) !
I am not saying that these examples are representative of all catholic attitudes. But our dear Catholic friends from JTF must keep in mind that antisemitism is certainly not dead within the Catholic church.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 21, 2010, 10:45:21 AM

Yes Masterwolf is a great member but Ron was only defending himself, as you know everyone is against him yet again.

Bryan, I am not "against Ron."

That said, I am against anti-Italian slurs - I don't think they have a place on this forum - and I don't think it's called for to lash out against people personally if there's a disagreement about something unless they personally express nazi or nazi-like views.  I think it gets excessive to ascribe these views to people based on their ethnicity, if they never expressed the view themself.  

There are loads of antisemites out there, I see them in facebook all the time.  Western antisemites - american, british, all kinds.   And they say really disgusting things in favor of their pet-Arabs and "Palestine" against Jews, commenting on my friends' walls and posts.    The people here can't be blamed for spouting those views if the people here don't spout them!   Certainly I think all JTF'ers would strongly disagree with views like the ones I'm referring to, when I see those comments in facebook.  It's not fair to imply that secretly or otherwise, the JTF'ers really hold those views.    Unless some individual person exhibits that demonstrably, that is an insane accusation.

If you say Ron was saying things in self defense, then you can make the same argument for Masterwolf saying things for himself and we get nowhere.

Most western Anti Semites, such as Americans and British aren't even religious believers period. Many are leftists, many are Atheist and yet have the urge to suck up to the Arab Muslim cockroaches.  I have confronted many of them and then the go in a full anti religion mode. True Christians (By the way Catholics are a denomination of Christianity, so we too like other denominations are under the umbrella of Christianity) Do know the true beliefs that Israel is the light of our salvation that is in our teachings.  Western Anti Semites bash the Jews like the bash the Christians.  In this country every December they get all upset if a Christmas tree or a Menorah is on display, and yet they tell us we should tolerate Ramadan's holiday.  In my neighborhood we had Jews and Christians and we all got along.. Yes I know Ron is not living in the U.S. and he doesn't know how we do things here? But after what he said to me yesterday I find him a tad unstable.  For him to throw around to people the term Nazi on this forum especially where we all put such time and effort to accomplish this is really disgraceful.  This sounds mildly the same like blacks in this country if you don't agree with them they call you honkey or cracka.  You all understand where I am getting at on this? The majority of Christians in this country mainly who believe are not Nazis.  As far as the Pope goes, no Catholic follower has a say on who is elected Pope.  I don't always agree with him the church has to man up for the crimes in their pass as a faith and people.  But we can't also be told we are responsible for what some people did 60 years ago like we caused it.  I was born in 75 and already have seen my share of Anti Catholic bashing in this country it is very wide spread.  Not to mention the Italian stereotype which he also put on the table.. The Pizza thing the um Mafia thing? So he thinks we are all like this then he is a very narrow minded flea.   And he has a lot of growing up to do if he expects to get along with anyone else.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 21, 2010, 10:52:12 AM

Let us just agree that the church has a history which needs to be forgiven.


No offense Muman, but I resent this statement, that I find surprisingly anti-Jewish by the way : no, the horrible crimes committed by people who claimed to represent catholicism although they were acting in contradiction with what Jesus taught, must NOT be forgiven.
This does not mean that I resent Catholics in general for what some of them did in the past. Personally, if it wasn't for a Catholic priest, I wouldn't be alive today. My grandfather was hidden and cared for by a Catholic priest during WWII. So I know what "righteous Gentile" means and I have the highest respect for righteous Gentiles.

There is nothing anti-Jewish in what I said. I said that the Church needs to ask for our forgiveness, apologize for its evil ways, and remove the offensive sections which inspired so much anti-semitism. I have seen that the NT is full of anti-semitic contents. The Jews are called sons of devils, amongst other things. When I was young I had a school-mate who told me because I was Jewish I was going to hell, my mom was told that she had horns when she was a child... The antisemitism which is in the NT is disgusting...

As long as the church teaches the NT to its congregants there will be continued antisemitism.

I think this is not anti-Jewish, it is standing up for the Jewish people against the taught antisemitism of christianity..



All right, I misunderstood what you wrote. I agree with what you write here. By the way, here is another anecdote similar to those you tell : due to complicated circumstances, my mother had to spend one year at a catholic school when she was fourteen; no other girl would talk to her or invite her; she was told that she was guilty of the murder of Jesus... The teachers did try to lecture the girls but that did not make much difference.
Another anecdote. Last summer, I visited a church in France. There was an exhibition inside the church about recent history : Arafat was presented as a hero ! No mention was made of all the wars and terror initiated by the Arabs against tiny Israel. But, in big bold characters, you could read that the Jews had massacred Arabs in 1994 (a reference to Baruch Goldstein) !
I am not saying that these examples are representative of all catholic attitudes. But our dear Catholic friends from JTF must keep in mind that antisemitism is certainly not dead within the Catholic church.

France? The French always thought they were also high and mighty over anybody else.. They look down on their noses to this country and if it wasn't for the United States. France's main language would of been German.  The French had a history of sucking up to the Muslims, now they got their hands full with the Muslims but maybe that is how the schools in France is like or the Church,, but in this country no not at all.. I would challenge people like that in my own faith.  People confuse the actual teachings to what they make up in their own brains on how to think or say and it has nothing to do with the teachings.  Our teachings are told to love our neighbors the way you want them to love you.  With the French if you are bringing them up that is not the teaching that is France being it's usual arrogant France.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 21, 2010, 10:57:01 AM
bullcat3:  "Ron's misplaced hatred, against Christian members here, seems insignificant in the grand scheme of things. "

There are only two ancient civilizations today which have survived to the present day:  the Jews and the Chinese.

Both have done so maintaining a continuous history and culture, and both have arrived at the present time with their national languages still intact.

We Jews should learn a lesson from the Chinese which they've known for quite some time:

Only history decides and judges the significance of leadership and government 'in the great scheme of things'.

The work of Chaim and JTF may well come to be viewed as a mere footnote in future written histories, one marked with the briefest of mentions as to how errors in judgment combined with organizational missteps, resulting in the complete failure of a movement founded on Jewish values.



I really do hope Massuh, that if you have ideas on how to run JTF more optimally or improve the organization that you are sharing those ideas with Chaim by private message because I'm sure he'd be open to hearing them and possibly implementing them.

If, on the other hand, you are merely criticizing JTF as a whole without offering any solutions or any real way to improve it, I must say it appears a bit empty.   It's easy for a person to say, "you should have done better." or "I would do better if I was in charge."  It's much harder to say, "this is how things could be better if you did x, y, and z" and actually give ideas that you think would improve the situation.   I really hope it's the former and not the latter.  If so please share your ideas for improving JTF, with Chaim and/or with all of us.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 21, 2010, 11:03:27 AM
Muman, can you address my previous post on this page? You posted this long message board post that has so much nonsense on it that has nothing to do with supposed Christian NT anti-semitism.

As for this statement:

"and the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."

This refers to condemning the pharisees who were in league with Rome.

Historically, wasn't Jesus a Pharisee (although went off from the path of our rabbis to teach additional things we don't believe)?   I could be wrong, but I thought I had read that.


Also, it's not historically correct that the Pharisees were in league with the Romans.   The Romans murdered many Pharisee rabbis including the greatest Rabbi of the Oral law - Rabbi Akiva.  They murdered him for teaching Torah publically to Jews.  (Judaism is based entirely on the teachings of the "Pharisee" rabbis - those who continued the tradition of the Prophets and Men of the Great Assembly before them).   So if that's an alliance with Rome, what kind of alliance is that?

I think the historical Pharisee, Sadducee thing is getting confused.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 21, 2010, 11:06:18 AM

Yes Masterwolf is a great member but Ron was only defending himself, as you know everyone is against him yet again.

Bryan, I am not "against Ron."

That said, I am against anti-Italian slurs - I don't think they have a place on this forum - and I don't think it's called for to lash out against people personally if there's a disagreement about something unless they personally express nazi or nazi-like views.  I think it gets excessive to ascribe these views to people based on their ethnicity, if they never expressed the view themself.  

There are loads of antisemites out there, I see them in facebook all the time.  Western antisemites - american, british, all kinds.   And they say really disgusting things in favor of their pet-Arabs and "Palestine" against Jews, commenting on my friends' walls and posts.    The people here can't be blamed for spouting those views if the people here don't spout them!   Certainly I think all JTF'ers would strongly disagree with views like the ones I'm referring to, when I see those comments in facebook.  It's not fair to imply that secretly or otherwise, the JTF'ers really hold those views.    Unless some individual person exhibits that demonstrably, that is an insane accusation.

If you say Ron was saying things in self defense, then you can make the same argument for Masterwolf saying things for himself and we get nowhere.

Most western Anti Semites, such as Americans and British aren't even religious believers period. Many are leftists, many are Atheist and yet have the urge to suck up to the Arab Muslim cockroaches.  I have confronted many of them and then the go in a full anti religion mode. True Christians (By the way Catholics are a denomination of Christianity, so we too like other denominations are under the umbrella of Christianity) Do know the true beliefs that Israel is the light of our salvation that is in our teachings.  Western Anti Semites bash the Jews like the bash the Christians.  

I grant your point... These people I see in facebook are actually most often atheists who belittle the idea of G-d in their stupid arguments too.   

On the other hand, when I was in Hevron, there were European "church groups" of christians who came to Israel in order to protest Jewish presence in Hevron, inflame Arabs of Hevron into murdering Jews and to portray settler Jews as thieves and animals.   We took a tour of Hevron during Shabbath, and these disgusting freaks were following around the group taking pictures of us and video taping us, verbally trying to provoke Jews to do something back to get it on tape and then post it on youtube.   

So, there exists hatred from many places - from religious and from non-religious - but I'm just saying that let's keep it focused on what individuals actually demonstrate by their own behaviors, not judging people on ethnicity or country of origin or what religious sect they belong to, etc.   Let's give people a fair chance is all I'm saying.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 21, 2010, 11:11:41 AM
Historically, wasn't Jesus a Pharisee?


Also, it's not historically correct that the Pharisees were in league with the Romans.   The Romans murdered many Pharisee rabbis including the greatest Rabbi of the Oral law - Rabbi Akiva.  They murdered him for teaching Torah publically to Jews.  (Judaism is based entirely on the teachings of the "Pharisees" who continued the tradition of the Prophets and Men of the Great Assembly before them).   So if that's an alliance with Rome, what kind of alliance is that?

I think the historical Pharisee, Sadducee thing is getting confused.
Yes, and so was Paul, etc.

The NT is not referring to all members of the Pharisaical branch, just those who directly opposed Jesus' teachings.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: TheCoon on September 21, 2010, 11:13:23 AM
Muman, can you address my previous post on this page? You posted this long message board post that has so much nonsense on it that has nothing to do with supposed Christian NT anti-semitism.

As for this statement:

"and the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."

This refers to condemning the pharisees who were in league with Rome.

Historically, wasn't Jesus a Pharisee?


Also, it's not historically correct that the Pharisees were in league with the Romans.   The Romans murdered many Pharisee rabbis including the greatest Rabbi of the Oral law - Rabbi Akiva.  They murdered him for teaching Torah publically to Jews.  (Judaism is based entirely on the teachings of the "Pharisees" who continued the tradition of the Prophets and Men of the Great Assembly before them).   So if that's an alliance with Rome, what kind of alliance is that?

I think the historical Pharisee, Sadducee thing is getting confused.

Obviously he split from the Jewish religious leadership of his day. Jesus referred to the pharisees in Smyrna when he made that statement. This is why it can't be viewed as a condemnation of all Jews or even all Pharisees. It was a condemnation of the religioous establishment there who the Christians felt were betraying their Jewish followers by being in league with Rome. It is documented historical fact that Jews at times in the Roman empire had special treatment from the Roman authorities. We can obviously agree/disagree on theology.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 21, 2010, 11:15:06 AM
It is documented historical fact that Jews at times in the Roman empire had special treatment from the Roman authorities. We can obviously agree/disagree on theology.
Obviously that didn't last long as history shows.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 21, 2010, 11:20:59 AM
Muman, can you address my previous post on this page? You posted this long message board post that has so much nonsense on it that has nothing to do with supposed Christian NT anti-semitism.

As for this statement:

"and the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."

This refers to condemning the pharisees who were in league with Rome.

Historically, wasn't Jesus a Pharisee?


Also, it's not historically correct that the Pharisees were in league with the Romans.   The Romans murdered many Pharisee rabbis including the greatest Rabbi of the Oral law - Rabbi Akiva.  They murdered him for teaching Torah publically to Jews.  (Judaism is based entirely on the teachings of the "Pharisees" who continued the tradition of the Prophets and Men of the Great Assembly before them).   So if that's an alliance with Rome, what kind of alliance is that?

I think the historical Pharisee, Sadducee thing is getting confused.

Obviously he split from the Jewish religious leadership of his day. 
  Right, no question about that.  I did alter my comment slightly to make it more clear that I was referring to that as well.

Quote
Jesus referred to the pharisees in Smyrna when he made that statement. This is why it can't be viewed as a condemnation of all Jews or even all Pharisees. It was a condemnation of the religioous establishment there who the Christians felt were betraying their Jewish followers by being in league with Rome. It is documented historical fact that Jews at times in the Roman empire had special treatment from the Roman authorities. We can obviously agree/disagree on theology.

It appears we will have to disagree on both theology and history.   Please refer me to sources which show special treatment to Jews from the Romans.   Jews - in other words, the denizens of the Judean polity - were a conquered, occupied subject entity like any other group (pagan or otherwise) that Romans conquered throughout the world as far as I know (although other groups and peoples more easily and more readily assimilated to the Roman system, ways, and culture).   Jews did have the national control of this place before Romans conquered, but I'm still a bit puzzled as to what you're referring to.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 21, 2010, 11:31:21 AM
Jesus was not a Pharisee, he was a carpenter, HUGE difference. The Pharisee's were the religious leaders in the community...Jesus was anti Pharisee if you remember correctly. Judas was friend's with the Pharisee's, yes Paul, was a Pharisee, he was Saul when he was on the board, until he had his conversion on the road to damascus.
Uggh.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: briann on September 21, 2010, 11:32:56 AM
I have nothing against Catholics at all.  I do have anger towards the Church and their coverup of the horrific molestations, but so does any reasonable person.

Ron does NOT represent what others think here.  Masterwolf, you should know that.  Just ignore him.  No one else is really ganging up on you, its just one very angry kid.... who cares, just ignore him, like all of us do.

I apologize if enough of us aren't standing up for you and your faith.  I have been so busy as of late, but I will do what I can to help you out.  The intolerance of Ron is very hurtful to our movement, but the rest of us don't think like he does.  I think most American catholics are VERY good people.  With the exception of the Illegals from Latin America, the others are often very decent, and mostly righteous.  This is not something I believed when I was younger, but not that I have come into more contact with catholics, I've certainly changed my mind.  As far as things that happened in the past, that has nothing to do with you.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: TheCoon on September 21, 2010, 11:36:56 AM
Kahane, both Julius and Augustus Caesar allowed the Jews to practice Judaism and synagogues enjoyed special status where they could request taxation from Jews for upkeep. Jews in Judaea were allowed the same treatment for the most part. This was during the time of Christ. Roman attitudes towards Jews changed far more negatively over time as famine and terrible Roman governance took over and that lead eventually to rebellion and the destruction of the Temple. After that, Rome sought to violently control Judaism.

I'll see if I can find sources, but this is how I know the history. Obviously for most of Jewish/Roman history, Rome was very hostile to the Jews but at the beginning for a short time there was some favorable treatment towards Jews, notably around the first annexing of Judaea.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 21, 2010, 11:47:00 AM
what?

uggggh, about what? show me where he sat on the board, he didn't, he was a carpenter.
Being a Pharisee had nothing to do with your employment. It meant belonging to a specific school of philosophy in Judaism.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Dr. Dan on September 21, 2010, 11:48:42 AM
Your catholic church and patents probably taught proper Christianity and it shows. I know Catholics and other "christians" who were taught what muman stated.




Let us just agree that the church has a history which needs to be forgiven.


No offense Muman, but I resent this statement, that I find surprisingly anti-Jewish by the way : no, the horrible crimes committed by people who claimed to represent catholicism although they were acting in contradiction with what Jesus taught, must NOT be forgiven.
This does not mean that I resent Catholics in general for what some of them did in the past. Personally, if it wasn't for a Catholic priest, I wouldn't be alive today. My grandfather was hidden and cared for by a Catholic priest during WWII. So I know what "righteous Gentile" means and I have the highest respect for righteous Gentiles.

There is nothing anti-Jewish in what I said. I said that the Church needs to ask for our forgiveness, apologize for its evil ways, and remove the offensive sections which inspired so much anti-semitism. I have seen that the NT is full of anti-semitic contents. The Jews are called sons of devils, amongst other things. When I was young I had a school-mate who told me because I was Jewish I was going to hell, my mom was told that she had horns when she was a child... The antisemitism which is in the NT is disgusting...

As long as the church teaches the NT to its congregants there will be continued antisemitism.

I think this is not anti-Jewish, it is standing up for the Jewish people against the taught antisemitism of christianity..


I don't know what you are talking about, Muman.
I went to 8 years of Catholic school.  I never heard that Jews were going to hell and that they have horns.  :o  Stop spreading this disinformation.
My wonderful parents are the main reasons why I love the Jewish people and I am very pro Israel.  Still, the church did nothing to diminish my respect for the Jewish faith. 
You make a very good effort at it though.
See - that is why I can take Ron.  He doesn't pretend to be 'tolerant'...then come up with this divisive garbage.

Most Italian Catholics I know get along very well with Jewish people.  We have strong family and religious values in common. 
 >:(
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 21, 2010, 11:49:10 AM
Kahane, both Julius and Augustus Caesar allowed the Jews to practice Judaism and synagogues enjoyed special status where they could request taxation from Jews for upkeep. 

How benevolent of them!  Do realize that before foreign occupation showed up, Jews practiced in their synagogues freely because that is the Jewish culture and the normal situation under Jewish self-rule (long before Christians even existed yet).   

Wow, and they even gave us the privilege to be taxed!   What the...


But there's something obviously incorrect about your "history."

Gaius Julius Caesar (13 July 100 B.C.E. – 15 March 44 B.C.E.)

Something obviously doesn't add up here.     Are you claiming there were Christians before Jesus lived?

Btw, if they tried to torch all synagogues to the ground, there would have been open revolt, which the Romans did NOT want and did not have the resources for (or at least not willing to devote them to that).   And indeed, when things got more hostile and they burnt down the Temple, there was an open revolt!

Quote
Jews in Judaea were allowed the same treatment for the most part. 
  Same treatment as what?  As other conquered groups?    I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.


Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 21, 2010, 11:50:33 AM
what?

uggggh, about what? show me where he sat on the board, he didn't, he was a carpenter.
Being a Pharisee had nothing to do with your employment. It meant belonging to a specific school of philosophy in Judaism.

Right, that's what I was referring to.   The philosophical allegiance (although obviously loyalty to the teachings didn't remain).   I don't think he was a Sadducee advocate or adherent, but maybe I'm wrong.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 21, 2010, 11:54:55 AM
I don't think he was a Sadducee advocate or adherent, but maybe I'm wrong.
No, the Sadducees were the Deform Jews of the era if I understand correctly, they denied the literality of Torah and Jesus very much opposed them.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: briann on September 21, 2010, 12:00:01 PM
Both Christians and Jews were treated poorly in Ancient Rome, but any historian knows that the Jews were treated slightly better, simply because the ancient Romans had more respect for older religions or idiologies and they truly saw Christianity as a threat.  But at any rate, Im not sure why this is all relevant.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 21, 2010, 12:07:17 PM
Both Christians and Jews were treated poorly in Ancient Rome, but any historian knows that the Jews were treated slightly better, simply because the ancient Romans had more respect for older religions or idiologies and they truly saw Christianity as a threat.  But at any rate, Im not sure why this is all relevant.


Ok, then cite a historian.  I really don't understand this point of view.  Jews were the indigenous people whom the Romans conquered.   Naturally, they would have local leadership under Roman auspices.  But from what I understand, the Torah and its teachings were always viewed as a threat to Roman power - because they were.   This was true before and after Christians existed.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: TheCoon on September 21, 2010, 12:16:15 PM
Kahane, both Julius and Augustus Caesar allowed the Jews to practice Judaism and synagogues enjoyed special status where they could request taxation from Jews for upkeep. 

How benevolent of them!  Do realize that before foreign occupation showed up, Jews practiced in their synagogues freely because that is the Jewish culture and the normal situation under Jewish self-rule (long before Christians even existed yet).   

Wow, and they even gave us the privilege to be taxed!   What the...


But there's something obviously incorrect about your "history."

Gaius Julius Caesar (13 July 100 B.C.E. – 15 March 44 B.C.E.)

Something obviously doesn't add up here.     Are you claiming there were Christians before Jesus lived?

Btw, if they tried to torch all synagogues to the ground, there would have been open revolt, which the Romans did NOT want and did not have the resources for (or at least not willing to devote them to that).   And indeed, when things got more hostile and they burnt down the Temple, there was an open revolt!

Quote
Jews in Judaea were allowed the same treatment for the most part. 
  Same treatment as what?  As other conquered groups?    I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.

You misunderstand the first point. The Jewish synagogues were able to tax their own people and keep the profits for temple upkeep and such, whereas other religions of the time under Roman rule had to give the tax to Rome.

I don't see how my timeline is off. Rome conquered Judaea in 63 BC, which falls during the reign of Gaius Julius Caesar(100-43). This has nothing to do with Christians and simply to do with the beginning of Jews under Roman rule. It merely shows that Jews observed some sort of special treatment.

The point is, at the beginning of Roman rule the Jews were treated better than other groups. This was obviously to maintain peace as opposed to any Roman benevolence for Jews.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 21, 2010, 12:17:18 PM
Re:  "If, on the other hand, you are merely criticizing JTF as a whole without offering any solutions or any real way to improve it, I must say it appears a bit empty.   It's easy for a person to say, "you should have done better." or "I would do better if I was in charge."  It's much harder to say, "this is how things could be better if you did x, y, and z" and actually give ideas that you think would improve the situation.   I really hope it's the former and not the latter.  If so please share your ideas for improving JTF, with Chaim and/or with all of us. "

My ideas about JTF have long ago been known and long ago been shared.

Cognitive disassociative disorder in one or more forum posters is just one of the reasons that this forum doesn't need trolls in order to to remain constantly and regularly disrupted.

The most serious disruptions here on the forum are created not by nazi or muzzie trolls, but exist because of members who perceive non-existent or implied "threats" to their social standing, ranking, prestige, or emotional well being, whenever they encounter stimuli in the form of messages written or spoken by another forum member.

Some people can not read a simple sentence or converse with other individuals without "scrambling" inside their own minds the ideas or messages being transmitted to them, "believing" that they are being challenged or insulted, and then emotionally and illogically overreacting to what is in fact a neutral, if not benign communication.

Inside the minds of these type individuals, normal human thought processes have been replaced by a pre-recorded "loop" of self-deprecating negative messages which play over and over again, whenever stimulated by a written or oral communication.

Whether or not it's "genetic" in origin, it is a serious learning disorder.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Yaakov Mendel on September 21, 2010, 12:40:13 PM
France? The French always thought they were also high and mighty over anybody else.. They look down on their noses to this country and if it wasn't for the United States. France's main language would of been German.  The French had a history of sucking up to the Muslims, now they got their hands full with the Muslims but maybe that is how the schools in France is like or the Church,, but in this country no not at all.. I would challenge people like that in my own faith.  People confuse the actual teachings to what they make up in their own brains on how to think or say and it has nothing to do with the teachings.  Our teachings are told to love our neighbors the way you want them to love you.  With the French if you are bringing them up that is not the teaching that is France being it's usual arrogant France.

The subject is not France here, I don't care about France in this thread, your starting a rant against France is irrelevant. If you think the examples I mentioned happened just because they took place in France, you're wrong, they are representative of seeds of antisemitism that are deeply rooted in christianity and they could take place in any other predominantly Christian country, including Italy and the USA.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Zelhar on September 21, 2010, 12:44:23 PM
WITH THE ON GOING NON STOP CHRISTIAN AND CATHOLIC BASHING THAT HAS GONE HERE FOR A WHILE.. IF WE KEEP THIS UP WE WILL BE DIVIDED AND THIS HELPS NO ONE.. THERE IS ONE THING TO POINT SOMETHING OUT BUT EVERYONE HAS HAD THEIR FAULTS.  IF YOU ARE 100% PURE THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE ALIVE NOW WOULD YOU.. RON STOP CALLING EVERYONE YOU DISAGREE WITH NAZIS.. AND YES I AM CATHOLIC ARE YOU GOING TO REFER TO ME AS A NAZI? THAT WILL BE A GIANT MISTAKE ON YOUR PART BUBBA.  YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO NON STOP BASH EITHER CHRISTIANS, OR CATHOLICS OR WHAT EVER IS HAPPENING IN EUROPE.  BY DOING THIS IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU BECAME A DISGRUNTLED NUT.  YOU KEEP THIS GOING AND PEOPLE WILL TURN AWAY AND THAT IS ONLY HELPING ENEMIES OUT.  I AM FED UP OF PEOPLE SAYING EVERY PRIEST OF REV. IS A RAPIST PEDOPHILE, THAT IS COMPLETELY NOT TRUE .  YA KNOW RESPECT WORKS ON BOTH WAYS YOU WANT PEOPLE TO RESPECT YOU BUT YOU ARE NOT SHOWING RESPECT TO OTHERS. I AM FAR FROM P.C. BUT YOU CAN'T CONDEMN EVERYONE FOR A HAND FULL RIGHT? CAN I CONDEMN THE JEWISH FAITH OR JEWS IN GENERAL CAUSE WE HAVE LETS SAY A MAYOR IN THIS CITY HE IS JEWISH WHO IS HANDING A CITY WHERE MUSLIMS TO ATTACKED TO MUSLIMS? NO CAUSE THAT IS INSANITY TALK AND YOU GOT YOURSELF INSANITY TALK THERE YOURSELF.. WHO HERE CAN BE HELD WHAT HAPPEN 60 YEARS BACK? I WAS NOT BORN AT THE TIME, IT WAS THE WORST NIGHTMARE TO EVER HAPPENED NO ONE IS DENYING THAT. BUT YOU ARE RUNNING ALL AROUND THIS FORUM CALLING EVERYONE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH A NAZI AND PEOPLE ARE NOT TAKING TOO KIND TO THAT LABELING YOU ARE GIVING OUT.
I think JTF has a rather liberal policy regarding freedom of speech. One thing that shouldn't be here is personal attacks, and Masterwolf, honestly, I think your post was a little personal provocation directed at Ron. And moreover unless I'm mistakes, you accuse Ron of saying things he hadn't said about priest and catholics. Yea he said some offensive things about ALL Christians and Christianity but I actually don't thing he said stuff like "all priest are pedophiles".

Ron in turn, you have way overreacted with personal and stereotypical slurs against Masterwolf. I think you owe him an apology.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: muman613 on September 21, 2010, 01:06:40 PM
Historically, wasn't Jesus a Pharisee?


Also, it's not historically correct that the Pharisees were in league with the Romans.   The Romans murdered many Pharisee rabbis including the greatest Rabbi of the Oral law - Rabbi Akiva.  They murdered him for teaching Torah publically to Jews.  (Judaism is based entirely on the teachings of the "Pharisees" who continued the tradition of the Prophets and Men of the Great Assembly before them).   So if that's an alliance with Rome, what kind of alliance is that?

I think the historical Pharisee, Sadducee thing is getting confused.
Yes, and so was Paul, etc.

The NT is not referring to all members of the Pharisaical branch, just those who directly opposed Jesus' teachings.

But WE DO oppose Jesus's teachings to this day... And it is not likely to change...

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: TheCoon on September 21, 2010, 01:41:04 PM
Muman, I rebutted your proofs that the NT is anti-semitic with passages from the NT itself. Could you address them? I'm sure the Christians on this board agree that the NT is not anti-semitic and that you are incorrect. You seem to view the contents of the NT and the teachings of Jesus as a threat to Judaism in itself. Almost to a point that you don't think anyone should believe it.

We don't view Judaism as a threat to our faith and you shouldn't view Christianity as a threat to yours. My faith forbids me from attacking yours or attempting to convert you, despite what's been done in the past.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: muman613 on September 21, 2010, 01:57:39 PM
Muman, I rebutted your proofs that the NT is anti-semitic with passages from the NT itself. Could you address them? I'm sure the Christians on this board agree that the NT is not anti-semitic and that you are incorrect. You seem to view the contents of the NT and the teachings of Jesus as a threat to Judaism in itself. Almost to a point that you don't think anyone should believe it.

We don't view Judaism as a threat to our faith and you shouldn't view Christianity as a threat to yours. My faith forbids me from attacking yours or attempting to convert you, despite what's been done in the past.

We have no problem with christians as long as they are not trying to convert Jews or kill them... As long as they are not trying to spread idolatry it is fine by Judaism. But the Christians are the ones who attacked the Jews first, not the other way around... Nowhere in Jewish belief does it say that we must forcibly convert non-believers. Nowhere does it tell us that we should conquer other lands to bring them to believe in Hashem. All the Jewish nation asked for was to be left alone...

Let me clearly state the Judaism denies:

1) That Jesus was Messiah.

2) That Jesus was G-d.

If that is fine with Christians than so be it..





Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: ~Hanna~ on September 21, 2010, 02:00:27 PM
I know ...

I was talking about the new testament, something which Dr B reads and knows about and was referring to his statement about Pharisee's and Jesus. I realize what you say here. Dr B had made that statement.

Historically, wasn't Jesus a Pharisee?


Also, it's not historically correct that the Pharisees were in league with the Romans.   The Romans murdered many Pharisee rabbis including the greatest Rabbi of the Oral law - Rabbi Akiva.  They murdered him for teaching Torah publically to Jews.  (Judaism is based entirely on the teachings of the "Pharisees" who continued the tradition of the Prophets and Men of the Great Assembly before them).   So if that's an alliance with Rome, what kind of alliance is that?

I think the historical Pharisee, Sadducee thing is getting confused.
Yes, and so was Paul, etc.

The NT is not referring to all members of the Pharisaical branch, just those who directly opposed Jesus' teachings.

But WE DO oppose Jesus's teachings to this day... And it is not likely to change...


Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: nessuno on September 21, 2010, 02:02:18 PM
Re:  "If, on the other hand, you are merely criticizing JTF as a whole without offering any solutions or any real way to improve it, I must say it appears a bit empty.   It's easy for a person to say, "you should have done better." or "I would do better if I was in charge."  It's much harder to say, "this is how things could be better if you did x, y, and z" and actually give ideas that you think would improve the situation.   I really hope it's the former and not the latter.  If so please share your ideas for improving JTF, with Chaim and/or with all of us. "

My ideas about JTF have long ago been known and long ago been shared.

Cognitive disassociative disorder in one or more forum posters is just one of the reasons that this forum doesn't need trolls in order to to remain constantly and regularly disrupted.

The most serious disruptions here on the forum are created not by nazi or muzzie trolls, but exist because of members who perceive non-existent or implied "threats" to their social standing, ranking, prestige, or emotional well being, whenever they encounter stimuli in the form of messages written or spoken by another forum member.

Some people can not read a simple sentence or converse with other individuals without "scrambling" inside their own minds the ideas or messages being transmitted to them, "believing" that they are being challenged or insulted, and then emotionally and illogically overreacting to what is in fact a neutral, if not benign communication.

Inside the minds of these type individuals, normal human thought processes have been replaced by a pre-recorded "loop" of self-deprecating negative messages which play over and over again, whenever stimulated by a written or oral communication.

Whether or not it's "genetic" in origin, it is a serious learning disorder.

:o  Must be tough for the brilliants to be around cognitive disorder members. :disease:
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Ari Ben-Canaan on September 21, 2010, 02:03:59 PM
Coon, I think this website houses a lot of what Muman is speaking of what he sees in the NT.  To me it is mystifying, to say the least.  I tried to copy and paste the text but due to some tables/charts that did not copy/paste well the original link may be easier to read and comprehend.

http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html

The Anti-Jewish New Testament

 I.            Introduction

Jewish people, who have read the New Testament throughout the history of Christianity, became well aware of the numerous passages of vicious and defamatory anti-Jewish polemic within it.  On the other hand, Christians, in general, have been insensitive to the offensive nature of these texts and to the damage that their usage has done to the Jewish people throughout the Common Era.  When the Emperor Constantine became a Christian in the fourth century C.E. and installed Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire, Jewish people became a primary target of persecution by "The Church"

Although the Holocaust, which caused the murderous annihilation of two-thirds of Europe's Jewish population, was in some ways different from previous historical acts of mass persecution and genocide of the Jewish people, it shared the motive of its precursors, the Crusades and Inquisition, and the many pogroms and expulsions.  Each of these events was fueled by anti-Semitism, the hatred of Jewish people, and was aimed at their murder and plunder.  The Holocaust distinguished itself from the other events in the scope of its genocidal goals and the fact that it did not offer its victims the "option" of conversion to Christianity – there was no escape from death.

An increasing number of Christian scholars have concluded that the root of anti-Semitism in the Christian world community is ultimately found within the New Testament.  In his book, Elder and Younger Brothers, the late Prof. A. Roy Eckardt [former Professor of Religion at both Lehigh University (PA) and Oxford University (UK), and an ordained minister], asserted that the foundation of anti-Semitism, and the responsibility for the Holocaust lie ultimately in the New Testament.  In another  book, Your People, My People, Eckardt insisted that Christian repentance must include a reexamination of basic theological attitudes toward Jewry and the New Testament in order to deal effectively with the problem of anti-Semitism and its prevention.  The general message scholars such as Eckardt are trying to convey is that, using the New Testament as its authoritative source, "The Church" has stereotyped the Jewish people as an icon of unredeemed humanity; they became an image of a blind, stubborn, carnal, and perverse people.  This dehumanization is the vehicle that formed the psychological prerequisite to the atrocities that followed.

Rather than speculate about and explore the reasons why the New Testament contains the racist defamatory anti-Jewish rhetoric, this essay will consider some examples of such New Testament passages that appear in Christian lectionaries.  Lectionaries are collections of Scriptural passages from Christian Bibles that are read during regular weekly Catholic and Protestant church services, and which are repeated on some cyclical schedule.  As such, these lectionaries are widely used by many millions of Church-going Christians, and they are somewhat similar to Jewish prayer books, such as a Siddur.

The material found in the lectionaries is, of course, only the "tip of the iceberg", but it suffices to demonstrate the plausibility of the assertion that anti-Semitism among Christians is rooted in the New Testament.

 II.            Anti-Jewish Polemic in the New Testament

Much of the information in this essay has been extracted from the article[1] Removing Anti-Jewish Polemic from our Christian Lectionaries: A Proposal by Prof. Norman A. Beck[2], who is a New Testament scholar and Professor of Theology and Classical Languages at Texas Lutheran University.  In his article, Prof. Beck deals with what he calls in some of his published books "… the specific texts identified as most problematic …", texts found in six of the 27 books that comprise the New Testament.  Prof. Beck also identifies the offensive passages in the New Testament and indicates the instances in which all or portions of these texts are included in major lectionary series.

1. Gospel of Matthew

The Gospel of Matthew contains approximately 90 verses of defamatory anti-Jewish polemic.  These are shown in Table II.A-1.

Table II.A-1 – Anti-Jewish polemic in the Gospel of Matthew

Source
   
Description of Context
   
Lectionary

Code*

3:7c
   

The Pharisees and Sadducees are called poisonous snakes
   

MLR

12:34a
   

The Pharisees are called evil poisonous snakes
   

---

15:3-9
   

Condemnation of the Pharisees for rejecting the commandments
   

---

15:12-14
   

The Pharisees are called blind guides leading the blind
   

---

16:6
   

Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees
   

---

19:3-9
   

The Pharisees are said to be hard-hearted
   

---

19:28
   

The disciples of Jesus will judge the twelve tribes of Israel
   

---

22:18c
   

The Pharisees are called hypocrites
   

HMLR

23:13-36
   

The scribes and Pharisees are repeatedly vilified as hypocrites
   

---

23:38
   

The house of Jerusalem is to be forsaken and desolate
   

---

26:59-68
   

The chief priests and council condemn Jesus as deserving death
   

MLR

27:1-26
   

The people demand that Jesus, not Barabbas, be crucified
   

MLR

27:62-66
   

The chief priests and Pharisees request a guard at Jesus' tomb
   

MLR

28:4
   

The guards tremble and become like dead when the angel appears
   

LR

28:11-15
   

The chief priest bribe the guards to lie about their actions
   

---

* Key to Lectionary Codes:

--- - Not included in a major lectionary series.

H - The "Historic Pericopes"[3] used by the majority of Christians prior to 1969.

M - The Roman Catholic Lectionary for Mass used during the 1980s.

L  - Lutheran adaptations of the Lectionary for Mass, printed in the Lutheran Book of Worship.

R - The Revised Common Lectionary, 1992.

 

   2. Gospel of Mark

 

The Gospel of Mark contains approximately 40 verses of defamatory anti-Jewish polemic.  These are shown in Table II.B-1.

 

Table II.B-1 – Anti-Jewish polemic in the Gospel of Mark

 

Source
   

Description of Context
   

Lectionary

Code*

3:6
   

The Pharisees are said to have begun to plan to destroy Jesus
   

MR

7:6-13
   

Condemnation of the Pharisees for rejecting the commandments
   

MLR

8:15
   

Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees
   

---

10:2-5
   

The Pharisees are said to be hard-hearted
   

MLR

14:55-65
   

The chief priests and council condemn Jesus as deserving death
   

---

15:1-15
   

The crowd demands that Jesus, not Barabbas, be crucified
   

MLR

* Key to Lectionary Codes:

--- - Not included in a major lectionary series.

M - The Roman Catholic Lectionary for Mass used during the 1980s.

L  - Lutheran adaptations of the Lectionary for Mass, printed in the Lutheran Book of Worship.

R - The Revised Common Lectionary, 1992.

 

   3. Gospel of Luke

 

The Gospel of Luke contains approximately 60 verses of defamatory anti-Jewish polemic.  These are shown in Table II.C-1.

 

Table II.C-1 – Anti-Jewish polemic in the Gospel of Luke

 

Source
   

Description of Context
   

Lectionary

Code*

3:7c
   

The multitudes are called poisonous snakes
   

LR

4:28-30
   

The members of the synagogue in Nazareth try to kill Jesus
   

MLR

7:30
   

The Pharisees are said to have rejected the purposes of God
   

---

11:39-54
   

The Pharisees and Torah scholars are repeatedly condemned
   

---

12:1b
   

Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy
   

---

13:14-17
   

The ruler of the synagogue is condemned as a hypocrite
   

---

13:35a
   

The house of Jerusalem is to be forsaken
   

LR

22:63-71
   

The chief priests and council condemn Jesus as deserving death
   

LR

23:1-25
   

The people demand that Jesus, not Barabbas, be crucified
   

LR

* Key to Lectionary Codes:

--- - Not included in a major lectionary series.

M - The Roman Catholic Lectionary for Mass used during the 1980s.

L  - Lutheran adaptations of the Lectionary for Mass, printed in the Lutheran Book of Worship.

R - The Revised Common Lectionary, 1992.

 

   4. Gospel of John

 

The Gospel of John contains approximately 130 verses of defamatory anti-Jewish polemic.  These are shown in Table II.D-1.

 

Table II.D-1 – Anti-Jewish polemic in the Gospel of John

 

Source
   

Description of Context
   

Lectionary

Code*

5:16-18
   

The Jews are said to have persecuted Jesus and wanted to kill him
   

---

5:37b-47
   

It is said that God's word and God's love is not in the Jews
   

---

7:19-24
   

It is said that none of the Jews do (what is written in) the Torah
   

---

7:28d
   

It is said that the Jews do not know the One who has sent Jesus
   

---

8:13-28
   

It is said that the Pharisees know neither Jesus nor the Father
   

---

8:37-59
   

The Jews are said to be descendants of their father, the Devil
   

H

9:13-41
   

The Pharisees and other Jews are condemned as guilty
   

MLR

10:8
   

The Jews are said to be thieves and robbers
   

MLR

10:10a
   

The Jews are depicted as those who steal and kill and destroy
   

---

10:31-39
   

The Jews are said to have picked up stones to throw at Jesus
   

---

11:53
   

It is said that the Jews realized that they would have to kill Jesus
   

L

11:57
   

It is said that the chief priests and Pharisees wanted to seize Jesus
   

---

12:10
   

It is said that the chief priests planned to kill Lazarus and Jesus
   

---

12:36b-43
   

It is said that most Jews loved the praise of men more than of God
   

---

16:2-4
   

(The Jews who) kill Jesus' disciples will think they are serving God
   

H

18:28-32
   

The Jews are said to have demanded that Pilate sentence Jesus to death
   

HMLR

18:38b-40
   

The Jews are said to be demanding that Jesus, not Barabbas, be crucified
   

HMLR

19:4-16
   

The Jews are depicted as insisting to Pilate that Jesus be crucified
   

HMLR

* Key to Lectionary Codes:

--- - Not included in a major lectionary series.

H - The "Historic Pericopes" used by the majority of Christians prior to 1969.

M - The Roman Catholic Lectionary for Mass used during the 1980s.

L  - Lutheran adaptations of the Lectionary for Mass, printed in the Lutheran Book of Worship.

R - The Revised Common Lectionary, 1992.

 

   5. Acts of the Apostles

 

The Acts of the Apostles contains approximately 120 verses of defamatory anti-Jewish polemic.  These are shown in Table II.E-1.

 

Table II.E-1 – Anti-Jewish polemic in the Book of Acts

 

Source
   

Description of Context
   

Lectionary

Code*

2:23b
   

Peter tells the men of Israel that they crucified Jesus
   

MLR

2:36b
   

Again Peter tells the men of Israel that they crucified Jesus
   

MLR

3:13b-15a
   

Peter tells the men of Israel that they killed the originator of life
   

MLR

4:10a
   

Again Peter tells the men of Israel that they killed Jesus
   

MLR

5:30b
   

Peter tells the members of the Jewish council that they killed Jesus
   

MLR

6:11-14
   

Some Jews are said to have brought false accusations against Stephen
   

---

7:51-60
   

Stephen shown as condemning the Jews for betraying and killing Jesus
   

MLR

9:1-2
   

Paul is depicted as planning the arrest of disciples of Jesus
   

LR

9:23-25
   

Jews are said to have plotted to kill Paul
   

---

9:29b
   

Jewish Hellenists are also said to have tried to kill Paul
   

---

12:1-3a
   

It is said that the Jews were pleased when Herod killed James
   

---

12:3b-4
   

Herod is said to have seized Peter also to please the Jews
   

---

12:11
   

Peter is said to have realized that the Jews wanted to kill him
   

---

13:10-11
   

Paul is said to have condemned the Jew Elymas as a son of the Devil
   

---

13:28-29a
   

It is said that the Jews had asked Pilate to crucify Jesus
   

L

13:39d
   

It is said that Jews cannot be forgiven by means of the Torah
   

---

13:45-46
   

Jews are said to have spoken against Paul
   

ML

13:50-51
   

Jews are said to have encouraged persecution of Paul and Barnabas
   

ML

14:1-6
   

Many Jews opposing Paul and Barnabas and attempting to stone them
   

---

14:19-20
   

Jews are said to have stoned Paul, thinking that they had killed him
   

---

17:5-9
   

Jews are said to have incited a riot, looking for Paul and Silas
   

L

17:13
   

Jews are said to have stirred up turmoil against Paul
   

L

18:6
   

Paul said to have told the Jews, "Your blood will be on your own heads!"
   

---

18:12-17
   

Jews are said to have brought accusations against Paul
   

---

19:13-19
   

Jewish exorcists are shown to be condemned
   

---

21:27-36
   

Jews are depicted as seizing Paul and as trying to kill him
   

---

22:4-5
   

Paul says that when he was a Jew he had persecuted Christians
   

---

23:2-5
   

Paul is said to have condemned the chief priest for striking Paul
   

---

23:12-22
   

Jews are said to have plotted to eat nothing until they kill Paul
   

---

23:27-30
   

Paul is said to have been nearly killed by the Jews
   

---

24:9
   

The Jews are said to have accused Paul of many crimes
   

---

25:2-5
   

Jews are said to have plotted to kill Paul
   

---

25:7-11
   

Jews are said to have continued to bring accusations against Paul
   

---

25:15-21
   

Jews are said to have spoken repeatedly against Paul
   

---

25:24
   

All Jews are said to have shouted that Paul must be killed
   

---

26:21
   

The Jews are said to have seized Paul and tried to kill him
   

---

28:25-28
   

Paul is said to have condemned the Jews for never understanding God
   

---

* Key to Lectionary Codes:

--- - Not included in a major lectionary series.

M - The Roman Catholic Lectionary for Mass used during the 1980s.

L  - Lutheran adaptations of the Lectionary for Mass, printed in the Lutheran Book of Worship.

R - The Revised Common Lectionary, 1992.

 

   6. Paul's Letters & Epistles

 

Within the seven letters written by Paul and the six Pseudo-Pauline and Deutero-Pauline epistles are found four verses which constitute some of the most virulent anti-Jewish polemic present in the New Testament.  These are shown in Table II.F-1.

 

Table II.F-1 – Anti-Jewish polemic from Paul's 1st Thessalonians

 

Source
   

Description of Context
   

Lectionary

Code

2:13-16
   

Condemning the Jews for killing Jesus and the prophets, and celebrating the suffering of the Jews now that the "wrath of God" has come upon them
   

---

* Key to Lectionary Codes:

--- - Not included in a major lectionary series.

 

III.            Observations and Conclusions

 

Some general observations may be drawn from the material presented above:

 

Æ     An ever-increasing number of Christian scholars agree that the New Testament contains defamatory anti-Jewish polemic.

 

Æ     Although various speculations exist regarding the reasons such defamatory anti-Jewish polemic found its way into the New Testament, a salient and good "food for thought" question is:

 

?        Can such anti-Jewish language be the "breathed word of G-d", as many Christians believe the New Testament is, or the "inspired word of G-d", as many other Christians believe?

 

Æ     Whatever might have been the reasons such defamatory anti-Jewish polemic originally found its way into the New Testament, there is no doubt about the fact that it served to fuel anti-Semitism and its resultant atrocities against the Jewish people throughout the history of Christianity.

 

Æ     Based on quantity alone, the Gospel of John appears to be the most anti-Jewish book in the New Testament, with Acts of the Apostles being a close second.  As an example, consider the following samples out of a passage from the Gospel of John listed among others in Table II.D-1 above [words in brackets were added for clarification; highlighting added for emphasis]:

 

John 8:44,47(KJV) – (44) Ye [Jews] are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye [Jews] will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

(47) He that is of God heareth God's words: ye [Jews] therefore hear them not, because ye [Jews] are not of God.

 

Æ     Based on virulence and viciousness, the one selection that may have been most responsible for the shedding of the blood of millions of innocent Jewish victims over the history of Christianity is from Paul's epistolary [highlighting added for emphasis]:

 

1 Thessalonians 2:13-16(KJV) – (13) For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.  (14) For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:  (15) Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:  (16) Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

 

Several passages from the Acts of the Apostles convey similar messages.

 

Table III-1 shows summary statistics, extracted from the various tables in Sec. II, on anti-Jewish polemic found in the major lectionary series.

 

Table III-1 – Anti-Jewish polemic in the New Testament and in Christian lectionaries

 

Source
   

# of

passages
   

% of total
   

# of

verses
   

% of total
   

% of NT

H – "Historic Pericopes"
   

6
   

7.0
   

48
   

10.5
   

0.6

M – RC Lectionary for Mass
   

23
   

26.7
   

146
   

31.9
   

1.8

L – Lutheran Lectionary for Mass
   

32
   

37.2
   

203
   

44.4
   

2.6

R – The Revised Common Lectionary
   

27
   

31.4
   

181
   

39.6
   

2.3

Number of distinct passages
   

35
   

 
   

 
   

 
   

 

Passages in NT but not in lectionaries
   

51
   

 
   

 
   

 
   

 

Total distinct passages
   

86
   

 
   

 
   

 
   

 

Number of distinct verses
   

 
   

 
   

220
   

 
   

 

Verses in NT but not in lectionaries
   

 
   

 
   

237
   

 
   

 

Total distinct verses
   

 
   

 
   

457
   

 
   

5.7

Verses in the entire NT (KJV)
   

 
   

 
   

7,959
   

 
   

100.0

 

Additional observations can be drawn from the data shown in Table III-1:

 

Æ     Although the "historic pericope" tradition may not have deliberately selected blatantly anti-Jewish texts, the tradition did not demonstrate sensitivity to this issue.  While there may not have been a conscious attempt to select large numbers of defamatory anti-Jewish texts, it does not appear that there was any directed effort to avoid their usage either.

 

Æ     The Roman Catholic Lectionary for Mass contains 23 selections that are blatantly anti-Jewish, as compared with the six in the "historic pericopes".  It appears, then, that the liturgical specialists who developed the Lectionary for Mass did not apply to their process of lectionary formation the principles and the spirit of Nostra Aetate (the Declaration on the Relationship of the Roman Catholic Church to Non-Christian Religions approved by the Vatican Council II - 10/28/65).  They were particularly insensitive in their selections of virulently anti-Jewish texts from the Acts of the Apostles, which they use during the important Easter Season.

 

Æ     The Lutheran liturgists and the liturgists within the other Christian denominations, who became interested in the (Roman Catholic) Lectionary for Mass and in adopting it, with modifications, for their own use, apparently had no concerns about its expanded use of defamatory anti-Jewish texts.  In fact, the liturgists from the Lutheran tradition added more viciously and blatantly anti-Jewish selections in the Lutheran Lectionary for Mass, thereby making it the most anti-Jewish lectionary analyzed by Prof. Beck.

 

Æ     The Christian liturgists who developed The Revised Common Lectionary also demonstrated the same lack of sensitivity as did the others.  In fact, they actually added several blatantly anti-Jewish passages to their collection.

 

Considering the large numbers of Church going Christians who have used these liturgical collections in their regular church services, is it any wonder that anti-Semitism has been so rampant within "The Church" and Christendom?  The anti-Jewish rhetoric in the New Testament has been very effective in poisoning the minds of those who study it and accept it as "the word of G-d", or as "inspired by G-d".

 
IV.            Summary

 

The summary view of this essay is simple:

 

Question:  What is the source of the common thread of anti-Semitism shared

                   by the historical acts of persecution of the Jewish people?

 

Answer:  The New Testament.

 

The "Christian love for the Jew", of which so much is heard these days, turns out to be conditional in overwhelming majority of cases.  Christians, evangelical Christian missionaries in particular, view the Jewish people as blind and in need of being made into "believers".  When their missionary efforts fail, or when their deceptions are exposed, their professed love for the Jew quickly turns into hatred and contempt.  Today's hand-clapping Jew-loving "new Christians" are evangelical Christian fundamentalists in disguise, some of whom even profess to be "Torah Observant".  They teach the same anti-Semitic doctrines as have been taught by "The Church" throughout the Common Era.  And while their tactics may have changed, their agenda and message remain the same.

 

The number of Jewish people who have been adversely affected, maimed, and murdered in the name of Jesus throughout the history of Christianity significantly exceeds the six million who were massacred by the Nazis during the Holocaust.  Yet, there are Jews who, for various reasons, have chosen to overlook this fact and have joined themselves to "The Church" with its built-in anti-Semitism.  According to Shmuel Golding, who founded and directed the Jerusalem Institute of Biblical Polemics for many years:

 

"Any Jew who can pay homage to the New Testament or allow himself to believe in it, is, in my opinion in the same category as a Jew who tries to justify Hitler's Mein Kampf or, as one who covers up for the deeds of the Nazis."[4]

 

A Jewish person who is approached by Christian missionaries should realize that, in order to be "loved" by them, he or she will have to embrace and accept the New Testament as part of his or her Bible.  Therefore, every Jewish person, whether still a member of the Jewish community or one who has already joined a Hebrew-Christian organization, must ask himself or herself the following questions and try to answer them honestly:

 

?        Can the New Testament, which has led to the persecution and murder of millions of my Jewish ancestors throughout the Common Era, truly be the breathed word of G-d, or be inspired by Him?

 

?        Am I ready to embrace this New Testament, which spouts hatred and lies against the Jewish people and, therefore, against me as a Jewish person, and accept it as part of my Bible?

 

Hopefully, the honest and objective answers to these questions will be the motivation for any subsequent action by the affected individual.

 

###

 

References for further study

 

[Selected material from some of these sources was used in preparing this essay]

 

Internet Websites:

 

The New Testament & Anti-Semitism (http://www.messianic-racism.mcmail.com/ca/antisem/idx.htm) - Several relevant articles may be found at this website.

 

Jewish-Christian Relations (http://www.jcrelations.net/) - This website contains a wealth of scholarly materials that deal with all aspects of Jewish-Christian relations.

 

Books:

 

Elder and Younger Brothers: The Encounter of Jews and Christians, by A. Roy Eckhardt, Schocken Books (1973)

 

Your People, My People: The Meeting of Christians & Jews, by A. Roy Eckhardt, Crown Publishing Group (1974); ISBN 0-81290-4125

 

Antisemitism in the New Testament , by Lillian C. Freudmann, University Press of America (1994); ISBN: 0819192953

 

Removing the Anti-Judaism from the New Testament, by Howard Clark Kee and Irvin J. Borowsky, American Interfaith Institute, Philadelphia, PA

[1] This article is on the Internet at - http://www.jcrelations.net/en/displayItem.php?id=737

[2] Prof. Beck's credentials are on the Internet at - http://www.jcrelations.net/en/displayItem.php?id=1102

[3] A pericope is a selection or extract from a book (The Random House College Dictionary, p. 987 [1975]).

[4] Quoted from: Antisemitism in the New Testament, an article on the Internet at the following address: http://www.messianicracism.mcmail.com/ca/antisem/g2.htm.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 21, 2010, 02:11:37 PM
Kahane, both Julius and Augustus Caesar allowed the Jews to practice Judaism and synagogues enjoyed special status where they could request taxation from Jews for upkeep. 

How benevolent of them!  Do realize that before foreign occupation showed up, Jews practiced in their synagogues freely because that is the Jewish culture and the normal situation under Jewish self-rule (long before Christians even existed yet).   

Wow, and they even gave us the privilege to be taxed!   What the...


But there's something obviously incorrect about your "history."

Gaius Julius Caesar (13 July 100 B.C.E. – 15 March 44 B.C.E.)

Something obviously doesn't add up here.     Are you claiming there were Christians before Jesus lived?

Btw, if they tried to torch all synagogues to the ground, there would have been open revolt, which the Romans did NOT want and did not have the resources for (or at least not willing to devote them to that).   And indeed, when things got more hostile and they burnt down the Temple, there was an open revolt!

Quote
Jews in Judaea were allowed the same treatment for the most part. 
  Same treatment as what?  As other conquered groups?    I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.

You misunderstand the first point. The Jewish synagogues were able to tax their own people and keep the profits for temple upkeep and such, whereas other religions of the time under Roman rule had to give the tax to Rome.

I don't see how my timeline is off. Rome conquered Judaea in 63 B.C.E., which falls during the reign of Gaius Julius Caesar(100-43). This has nothing to do with Christians and simply to do with the beginning of Jews under Roman rule. It merely shows that Jews observed some sort of special treatment.

The point is, at the beginning of Roman rule the Jews were treated better than other groups. This was obviously to maintain peace as opposed to any Roman benevolence for Jews.

Your point was that Jews were treated better than Christians by Romans, under Roman rule.  That Jews were given special privileges compared to Christians.   Or else, what "other religious" was Jesus or the gospels you cited talking about in the quotes you brought up to make this point?  You were using your bible quotes to make your point, so indeed, the fact that the reign of Julius Caesar (a person YOU mentioned as evidence for your claim), was BEFORE Christianity even existed or before Jesus was born - this can't possibly be a point supporting your claim.   

The problem here is that I'm not going to argue interpretation of your scriptures, but you are claiming this as HISTORICAL fact, documented by scholarship.  That anyone can discuss.  But it turns out not true.  So maybe you were basing it on how you interpreted your scripture, but not actual historical evidence.  And maybe your interpretation therefore needs altering, but I leave that to you.

Also your claim that Jews didn't pay taxes to Rome is incorrect.  There were tax collectors who collected taxes owed by Jews to the Roman empire.  It was a source of great resentment among Jews that they had to pay taxes to the pagan empire.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: TheCoon on September 21, 2010, 02:26:16 PM
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about Jews being treated better than Christians. Someone else did, I believe briann. I merely showed that Jews were treated more favorably than other faiths. I also never said that Jews didn't pay taxes to Rome at any point. I said Jews were allowed to collect tax for temple upkeep instead of giving it to Rome like other faiths were forced to do.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: ~Hanna~ on September 21, 2010, 02:29:14 PM
90% of all communication is nonverbal. I wonder how he could come up with such a conclusion?


Re:  "If, on the other hand, you are merely criticizing JTF as a whole without offering any solutions or any real way to improve it, I must say it appears a bit empty.   It's easy for a person to say, "you should have done better." or "I would do better if I was in charge."  It's much harder to say, "this is how things could be better if you did x, y, and z" and actually give ideas that you think would improve the situation.   I really hope it's the former and not the latter.  If so please share your ideas for improving JTF, with Chaim and/or with all of us. "

My ideas about JTF have long ago been known and long ago been shared.

Cognitive disassociative disorder in one or more forum posters is just one of the reasons that this forum doesn't need trolls in order to to remain constantly and regularly disrupted.

The most serious disruptions here on the forum are created not by nazi or muzzie trolls, but exist because of members who perceive non-existent or implied "threats" to their social standing, ranking, prestige, or emotional well being, whenever they encounter stimuli in the form of messages written or spoken by another forum member.

Some people can not read a simple sentence or converse with other individuals without "scrambling" inside their own minds the ideas or messages being transmitted to them, "believing" that they are being challenged or insulted, and then emotionally and illogically overreacting to what is in fact a neutral, if not benign communication.

Inside the minds of these type individuals, normal human thought processes have been replaced by a pre-recorded "loop" of self-deprecating negative messages which play over and over again, whenever stimulated by a written or oral communication.

Whether or not it's "genetic" in origin, it is a serious learning disorder.

:o  Must be tough for the brilliants to be around cognitive disorder members. :disease:
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 21, 2010, 02:37:38 PM
Re:  "If, on the other hand, you are merely criticizing JTF as a whole without offering any solutions or any real way to improve it, I must say it appears a bit empty.   It's easy for a person to say, "you should have done better." or "I would do better if I was in charge."  It's much harder to say, "this is how things could be better if you did x, y, and z" and actually give ideas that you think would improve the situation.   I really hope it's the former and not the latter.  If so please share your ideas for improving JTF, with Chaim and/or with all of us. "

My ideas about JTF have long ago been known and long ago been shared.

Cognitive disassociative disorder in one or more forum posters is just one of the reasons that this forum doesn't need trolls in order to to remain constantly and regularly disrupted.

The most serious disruptions here on the forum are created not by nazi or muzzie trolls, but exist because of members who perceive non-existent or implied "threats" to their social standing, ranking, prestige, or emotional well being, whenever they encounter stimuli in the form of messages written or spoken by another forum member.

Some people can not read a simple sentence or converse with other individuals without "scrambling" inside their own minds the ideas or messages being transmitted to them, "believing" that they are being challenged or insulted, and then emotionally and illogically overreacting to what is in fact a neutral, if not benign communication.

Inside the minds of these type individuals, normal human thought processes have been replaced by a pre-recorded "loop" of self-deprecating negative messages which play over and over again, whenever stimulated by a written or oral communication.

Whether or not it's "genetic" in origin, it is a serious learning disorder.

:o  Must be tough for the brilliants to be around cognitive disorder members. :disease:

And where is the antidote so we can cure JTF?!

 :doctor:
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 21, 2010, 02:46:40 PM
Coon, you said this:

This refers to condemning the pharisees who were in league with Rome. The pharisees of the time worked with Rome to achieve special status where they didn't have to pay taxes or do military service. Jews were exempt from supporting the official Roman religion while Christians were persecuted for refusing to pay taxes or serving.

Then when I questioned this, you claimed it was "history" that everyone knows.    I believe you have not been able to substantiate these claims so perhaps you need to alter your interpretation of your scripture or perhaps not.  Again, I leave that to you.    But you were indeed making the claim.    And you also later on specified that you were speaking about "during the time of [Jesus]"

But you cited Julius and Augustus Caesar as your historical point, but Julius Caesar's reign ended before Jesus was born and before there was such a thing as a Christian or Christianity, historically.   

I guess all of this is not worth belaboring any further.


As to the Jews being able to use funds for Temple upkeep and the like, where other pagan "faiths" (where do you mean, exactly?  In Gaul?  Other areas?) were not - who cares?    This was an illegal occupation of all of these groups, and if Romans let Jews go about their business because Jews were more stubborn than these other groups and less willing to assimilate to Roman ways and leadership, so be it.  I see that as a good thing.   And I certainly don't see it as a reason to resent or accuse the Jewish leadership or Temple people that they somehow arranged for better treatment than conquered groups in other parts of the world.

But like I did say, the Romans viewed the Torah and Judaism as a great threat to their hegemony and control over the Judean province.   As it certainly was.   The Pharisees, (The term in Hebrew is Perushim - the explainers), the biggest purveyors of Torah teachings and Judaism, were certainly no friend.   The Romans disbanded the Sanhedrin and made group gatherings very difficult for precisely this reason.  The Sanhedrin was the centralized authority of the pharisaic religious leadership.  It was viewed as a revolutionary body.

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Aces High on September 21, 2010, 04:20:41 PM
What an angry, low-life, loser Ralph is!  A Jew hater who spends his free time coming on a Jewish forum.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: IsraelForever on September 21, 2010, 05:00:38 PM
It is my humble opinion that who would have guessed, based on the the very first post, that this would turn out to be one of the most interesting and informative threads?  From lemons you do sometimes get lemonade.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: JTFenthusiast2 on September 21, 2010, 06:01:42 PM
EVERYBODY STOP

 >:( >:( >:(


JUST STOP.

THIS IS A STUPID WASTE OF EVERYONE'S TIME AND ENERGY.


THE REASON FOR THE CREATION OF THIS THREAD WAS VALID.   NOW IT HAS SPIRALED INTO DOG SH*T---

AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

WHAT PURPOSE?

No further understanding ever arises from these threads.  People's minds never change about their core beliefs here and people leave feeling (rightly) disrespected.  Incidently, most of the people viewing this thread are "guests!"

Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on September 21, 2010, 06:47:49 PM
Ari Shayn and others on the forum who find derogatory comments about Jews in the New Testament to be a personal affront,

I believe you are viewing this situation with 'myopic' vision, and here's why:
All of the quotes in your list are indeed found in the NT, but if a new religious offshoot is to become founded and break away from an established mother faith, how else can such be accomplished without its founder or founders insisting that the earlier faith is wrong, it's followers misled, and its' rites and rituals outdated?  This pattern of development has been the same throughout history.  Abraham decried those who bowed before idols.  There are more than a few passages in Jewish Scriptures such as those describing Philistines as "uncircumcised dogs", proscriptions against non-Jews joining in Shabbos, prohibitions against non-Jews participating in Temple rites, etc... .   Gautama Buddha began a new way of life and thought rejecting the Hindu Vedas and the Hindu faith of his native India, teaching his followers that nothing of value could be gained by following the Brahmin Priests or practicing asceticism.  Islam denounces any and all thoughts or philosophies which came before it or appeared after it.  The 20th Century Religion called Marxism denounces all religion other than that worshipping the State and its Leader, and considers itself the World To Come already on Earth.  Now, with Marxism mostly discredited, we see the Green and Global mindset denouncing all which opposes its views on mankind's relations to our planet.  This has always gone on and always will, as it reflects the human condition.

Jews should view Christianity as it exists today  -- in terms of the spiritual and material condition of the millions of Gentiles prior to their acceptance of the Christian faith.  They were for the most part unschooled and unwashed pagans and heathens lost in a world of total spiritual darkness.  They worshipped everything from the Sun to trees, bowed before numerous amoral gods carved in stone, had no regard for human life, and lived in tribal groups at war with each other.  Homosexuality was widely accepted and practiced, and women gave birth out of wedlock with no guilt or sense of sin.  Intelligent non-Jews in ancient times who became exposed to Torah and The Temple in Jerusalem while on their travels very often were attracted to the Jewish faith, but most found the Law difficult to observe, and were often confounded by the complex nature of Jewish metaphysics.

Regardless of doctrinal differences with its Jewish parent faith, the Christian faith started as a Jewish cult which believed the Moshiach had arrived.  All of its early disciples and most of its earliest adherents were Jews, and only Jews were allowed to join the group.  Even the disciple Luke first converted to Judaism in order to then be allowed to follow Jesus.  The Apostle Paul, originally known as Saul of Tarsus, was affiliated with the Temple in Jerusalem until his sudden conversion to become a follower of Jesus, and the Church of Rome was founded by the Jew Peter, now known as St. Peter the first Pope.  All of the first disciples demanded the Kosher Laws be kept, and continued to worship at the Temple.  Paul was told by the other disciples that if he was going to ignore the Kosher Laws and Temple worship and accept "any version" of Christian faith from gentiles throughout the world, that he would have to do so far away from the Land of Israel, for the actual disciples insisted on keeping almost all of Judaism.

Eventually the two divided sects split permanently from each other, the "non-Kosher version of Jesus" taught by Paul spread throughout the world and succeeded; the original Jewish followers of Jesus became outnumbered by later converts to "Paulism" vanished - lost to antiquity and forgotten.

Even so, the Christian world today still considers itself as the "fulfillment" of the Jewish Covenant, and as such it claims the Jewish Torah, the Abrahamic Covenant, and the Law of Moses as the foundation of its faith.  Jewish objections to the Church Leaders' misinterpretation and mistranslation of the Jewish Scriptures are well known, and it is true that there are verses in the New Testament which are in large part responsible for "Anti-Semitism" and its pogroms, persecutions, and Holocaust.  But educated and intelligent modern Christians acknowledge that they would still be lost in pagan darkness without their Christian teachings of G-d and salvation, for they believe that G-d Chose the Jewish People to receive His Law and to give the world its Saviour.

It is a truly disheartening thing to admit, but were it not for Christian Zionists today throughout all branches and denominations of Christendom, Israel and the Jews would have little support.  Christians far outnumber Jews in the percentage of Zionist supporters among them.

Yes, it's true that these same Christians prefer everyone become Christian, but they believe that the creation of the State of Israel is a fulfillment of the Torah prophecies which were reiterated by Jesus and taught to his followers as the signs to watch for which would herald Moshiach's appearance.
 
If one removes the doctrinal differences separating believing Jews from believing Christians, it becomes apparent that the two faiths are closer than they are apart.


Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT
Post by: cjd on September 21, 2010, 07:03:07 PM
Wow.... This thread should come with a disclaimer....Example.... Unless people attempting to read this thread are halfway in the bag they should stay out for their own well being!!
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lisa on September 21, 2010, 07:18:25 PM
Sorry I'm late for the "party."

First off, it's one thing to not like the Roman Catholic Church or the most recent Pope.  I'm no fan of either, and I understand Jews who dislike them as well.  Now we need to remember the difference between the RCC, and individual Catholics, and most importantly, our wonderful Catholic members like Masterwolf, Bullcat3, CJD and Italian Zionist, among others. 

Masterwolf has been with JTF from the very beginning, I believe.  He has always supported Chaim, Israel and this movement.  The Catholic members here are NOT the Mel Gibson types.  So Ron, even though you don't like the Pope, personally attacking Masterwolf was totally uncalled for.   If you don't believe in working with Christians, that's fine.  But out of respect for Chaim, who pays the bills here, and with whom you have a difference of opinion on this matter, I'm asking that you keep your posts civil from now on. 

Anyway, regarding these threads about Christianity vs. Judaism, I think after a certain point, it's just beating a dead horse.  By now, we know what our differences are.  So why not just focus on the areas where we're in agreement? 


Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: MasterWolf1 on September 21, 2010, 07:23:32 PM
AL RIGHT AL RIGHT.. The point of this thread was not to point out the difference in faith .. that was not the intention of it.. the Point is that I saw was cause of what was being posted here.. Not to point out the differences in our faith,, You not going to change what anyone else believes in.. http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,49622.0.html this was not to bring out the battle between Christians and Jews.. I can't change no one can what happened in history,, but you learn fro it. THis has been more then once where I see on going of this.. Through this I was insulted by my heritage, what I believe in and being called what I been called no one would tolerate it. Nobody.. Now this was not to bring out the differences in faith..Many people have followed scriptures the way they suppose to be followed and many follow it  the wrong way.. Not every priest is a pedo, I make no excuse for the pope when he was a child.. I think the monsterous of Hitler also brainwashed a lot of children which back then none had a choice but to follow like any psycho people follow..EIther we going to wedge ourselves or we going to be together.. Christians are putting enormous time on this forum not cause they want or have to cause they know to. Ron has a lot of anger management to go through this is not the first he has spoken to people like this.  And if they teach in a certain way in Europe I don't live in Europe I don't know what they do there.  But I know here they don't.  I don't agree with the Church on things like Illegal Immigration.  It is a Latin based Religion.. Via Rome and Spain also adopted the faith and brought it to the Latin countries in this side of the world..  Him calling any of our members whores or calling any one of us Nazis  is completely uncalled for if you don't agree with him.. Is he like the black when confronted they call people Cracka? This Movement is based on both Jews ANNNNND Christians as wall as Hindus coming together to save Israel, To save America and build our mass movement.. You start calling people on this forum Nazi they going to walk a way.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 21, 2010, 10:59:05 PM
בס''ד

I think we have all made our points here. There are more than 150 posts and 11 pages on this thread. I believe that now we should move on and work together for our common goals.

I am locking this very long thread.
Title: Re: I AM GETTING A TAD FED UP.. AND A MAJOR VENTING SORRY BUT I AM FED UP ABOUT IT
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on September 21, 2010, 10:59:59 PM
Coon, I think this website houses a lot of what Muman is speaking of what he sees in the NT.  To me it is mystifying, to say the least.  I tried to copy and paste the text but due to some tables/charts that did not copy/paste well the original link may be easier to read and comprehend.

http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html

The Anti-Jewish New Testament
Ari, I like and respect you a lot as a great JTFer but what you and many others are failing to put into historical context is the fact that all of these passages took place in an exclusively Jewish environment. This was an in-house feud amongst Jews (Jews who believed Jesus was the Maschiach vs. those who did not). Gentiles were not in the picture whatsoever yet when these passages were written, and "Christianity" as such was not a separate religion yet, just a branch of Judaism. Therefore people professing to be Christians hundreds of years after the fact that chose to see these in a Jew-hating light not only are defying the message of the rest of the Bible, which clearly states that the Jews continue to be the people of the original promise (the "olive tree" as Paul puts it), but were culturally and historically illiterate as well.