You gave it a good go but you're still not as effective of an anti-Christian as some other members have been. You can't tell me this is the best you could do.Ruby don't you find how discusting this is? Jews celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land at Jewish Taxpayers expense!
You forgot to call us Nazis whose book is Mein Kampf and that we killed more Jews than Muslims and forgot to mention how you're going to kill everyone who are members of certain ethnicities who have killed Jews whether they are personally anti-Semites or not. You also forgot how Christians are all a bunch of idol worshippers that are going to hell. Your post is FAIL
Ruby don't you find how discusting this is? Jews celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land at Jewish Taxpayers expense!
But your still ok with celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land correct? This kind of idol worship is forbidden in Judism and should be outlawed in Israel.Ruby don't you find how discusting this is? Jews celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land at Jewish Taxpayers expense!
I don't think that Israeli taxpayers should pay for this. If they're going to go on vacation to Israel, it should be private money funding it only. I just didn't like the tone of wonga's post.
IT'S A TRAP!:::D :::D :::D :::D :::D
All related to Israel's new interpretation of Zionism as the Jews being nothing more than "Jewish Molemen" who dig underground to hide from the A-rabs!
Once Chile Con Carne and his gang arrive in Israel, they will be tricked by the Molim Yehudim into descending below ground to continue digging tunnels for their Jewish Taskmasters!
What is being "sold" to them by Ariel Sharon as CBS presents "A Chile Beaner's Christmas!" is in fact a sentence to hard labor without sunshine!:suave:
But your still ok with celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land correct? This kind of idol worship is forbidden in Judism and should be outlawed in Israel.Ruby don't you find how discusting this is? Jews celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land at Jewish Taxpayers expense!
I don't think that Israeli taxpayers should pay for this. If they're going to go on vacation to Israel, it should be private money funding it only. I just didn't like the tone of wonga's post.
We're not blaming the miners or even Xtians. We are blaming the ignorant and also subsersive Israeli Jewish Erev Rav government, for making Judaism appear as a primus inter pares, and that Israel "is equally Holy to all regions, which is a subtle preparation of the Jewish public for divvying up Jerusalem.
Gd gave The Land of Israel to The Chosen People NOT Xtians. I'm not going to discuss my faith until I'm ready but I can say I'm was a Xtian and not now. Celebrating Xmas in Israel is obscene because it's idol worship which is forbidden in Judism and has no place in Israel.But your still ok with celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land correct? This kind of idol worship is forbidden in Judism and should be outlawed in Israel.Ruby don't you find how discusting this is? Jews celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land at Jewish Taxpayers expense!
I don't think that Israeli taxpayers should pay for this. If they're going to go on vacation to Israel, it should be private money funding it only. I just didn't like the tone of wonga's post.
Do you think Christianity is idol worship? I thought you were a Christian, but I must have been wrong about that.
I think if Christian tourists that go to Israel want to celebrate Christmas there's nothing wrong with that, as long as they are not trying to go after the Jewish population and make them celebrate it. I never heard that these guys were going there to missionize.
Gd gave The Land of Israel to The Chosen People NOT Xtians.
I'm not going to discuss my faith until I'm ready but I can say I'm was a Xtian and not now.
Celebrating Xmas in Israel is obscene because it's idol worship which is forbidden in Judism and has no place in Israel.
I agree this news is absolutely sickening... Israel is the Jewish state and needs to have a strong Jewish identity. This is not attained by bending over and inviting avodah zarah in Eretz Yisroel.
I'm very sorry to hear that IZ. Very sorry. We had another member a while back that was a Christian and went atheist. That also made me feel very sad. I have to admit I suspected that you had left Christianity for at least months now though. I'm not going to press you to reveal anything about yourself you don't want to. Your religious beliefs are your own private business and you never have to share them if you don't want to.
I agree that Israel belongs to the Jews. However Christians also consider it to be Holy Land and Christians have sites of interest there as well which they have a legitimate reason for wanting to visit.
What if the Christian tourists respect the fact that Israel is a Jewish state, and don't try to missionize while visiting?
I agree this news is absolutely sickening... Israel is the Jewish state and needs to have a strong Jewish identity. This is not attained by bending over and inviting avodah zarah in Eretz Yisroel.
See wonga could learn from you how to craft his posts. Short, to the point, and included a real zinger. See wonga, watch and learn! :teach:
Listen Wonga, you are being as provocative and as nasty as usual. The rest of you guys- this is yet another cheap publicity stunt of Israel's tourism department. You know- that same department which previously produced videos portraying Israeli women as sluts flirting at the beach with tourists and also spends money on branding Tel Aviv as a gay friendly sin city.
Having said that, I think Israel the Christian pilgrimage tourism is beneficial to Israel and so Christian pilgrims are welcome to visit. So I don't see anything shameful in hosting these miners.
Having said that, I think Israel the Christian pilgrimage tourism is beneficial to Israel and so Christian pilgrims are welcome to visit. So I don't see anything shameful in hosting these miners.
QuoteHaving said that, I think Israel the Christian pilgrimage tourism is beneficial to Israel and so Christian pilgrims are welcome to visit. So I don't see anything shameful in hosting these miners.
You see nothing shameful in celebrating Xmas in Israel? Am I the only one who see's something wrong here?
What has this to do with celebrating Xmas in Israel?QuoteHaving said that, I think Israel the Christian pilgrimage tourism is beneficial to Israel and so Christian pilgrims are welcome to visit. So I don't see anything shameful in hosting these miners.
You see nothing shameful in celebrating Xmas in Israel? Am I the only one who see's something wrong here?
I've heard that it's one of the most spiritually moving things that someone can do as a Christian, to actually be in the Holy Land, contemplating the life of Jesus, away from the commercialism. As long as they are not hostile to Israel, and do not try to missionize Jews, why should Israel not allow the tourism? Israel happens to be located in a place where there are also holy sites of other religions besides Judaism. You also have to remember that Christians also believe in the Jewish Bible too and might want to see the land where prophecy is being fulfilled.
What has this to do with celebrating Xmas in Israel?
Xtianity has one thing in common with Judaism: it also belives that the Messiah, whoever he will be, will be a yiddishe boy!
When the True Moshiach appears, the Xtians will howl, but also say: "So what if we backed the wrong fellow?! But we did keep the faith all along these past 2000 years that he would be a yiddishe bochur!"
So why can't you respect Jewish law then? Jews are NOT allowed to worship false idols. Xmas is a celebration of false idols. Jews aren't allowed to believe in Jesus and to have people celebrating his birth in their homeland is obscene.What has this to do with celebrating Xmas in Israel?
Everything. Celebrating the birth and life of Jesus is most logically done in Israel, from a Christian perspective. That doesn't mean we want to harm the Jews. I certainly believe that Israel belongs to the Jewish people.
I know you are simply reacting to what you perceive as 'attacks' on your religion. But don't you realize that this is absolutely against our religion?
We believe very strongly that Israel is the Jewish state and should only honor Hashem and not any other religion in the land.
I can bring you quotes from Torah which very strongly demonstrate what happens to the Jewish people when they follow the gods of others...
PS: I do believe that a miracle happened to save these miners.
So why can't you respect Jewish law then? Jews are NOT allowed to worship false idols. Xmas is a celebration of false idols. Jews aren't allowed to believe in Jesus and to have people celebrating his birth in their homeland is obscene.What has this to do with celebrating Xmas in Israel?
Everything. Celebrating the birth and life of Jesus is most logically done in Israel, from a Christian perspective. That doesn't mean we want to harm the Jews. I certainly believe that Israel belongs to the Jewish people.
Tourism of Christians in Israel is against Judaism?Why are you twisting Mumans words?
Ruby, they just don't get it and simply don't ever want to.
We're not asking Jews in Israel to worship Jesus or a false idol of any kind. Where did you get that idea? Allowing tourism of non-Jews isn't the same as Jewish people celebrating it.
QuoteTourism of Christians in Israel is against Judaism?Why are you twisting Mumans words?
He is against celebrating Xmas is Israel. What don't you understand?
QuoteWe're not asking Jews in Israel to worship Jesus or a false idol of any kind. Where did you get that idea? Allowing tourism of non-Jews isn't the same as Jewish people celebrating it.
But celebrating Xmas exposes Jews to false idols.
Ruby, they just don't get it and simply don't ever want to.Plz explain what you mean by that.
Why do you think Christians would go to Israel, to suddenly throw away their faith once they enter the country? Of course they would celebrate Christmas if they're there at that time of year.
I don't think it's my job or Israel's concern what sort of rituals people are practicing as long as they don't disturb the peace, quiet and order. I understand that if people would come out to the Jewish street, erect an idol and started worshiping it, that would be offensive. But what's going on within the confines of their churches and their houses is not my concern.QuoteHaving said that, I think Israel the Christian pilgrimage tourism is beneficial to Israel and so Christian pilgrims are welcome to visit. So I don't see anything shameful in hosting these miners.You see nothing shameful in celebrating Xmas in Israel? Am I the only one who see's something wrong here?
I can't see what's wrong in allowing Christians to celebrate Christmas in Israel as long as this is done within the Christian community.
Masechet Avodah Zarah - An Introduction to the Tractate
August 16, 2010
The prohibition against Avodah Zarah - idol worship - is the most severe prohibition in the Torah. It includes the belief and worship of all deities whether on their own or in concert with God, whether they are perceived as spiritual, natural forces or animals. Any worship of these deities, whether worshiping the concept, the thing itself or a representative object, is forbidden as Avodah Zarah. This prohibition appears in the Ten Commandments and is repeated throughout the Torah and the books of the prophets. In explanation of the severity of this act it must be understood that idol worship is the antithesis of the most basic Jewish concept, that is, the belief in a single, unique God who rules over all things. The Rabbinic statement that expresses this idea states "Whoever accepts Avodah Zarah denies the entire Torah."
Due to the severity of this prohibition, we find that the Torah commands us not only to refrain from idol worship, but also to destroy it and to stay away from it and from its adherents in a variety of different ways. Thus we are forbidden from following the ways of idol worshipers or attempting to appear like them (see, for example, Vayikra 18:3). The Sages added further limitations whose purpose is to discourage interaction with Avodah Zarah and its followers.
Masechet Avodah Zarah is found in Seder Nezikin as one of the tractates that follows Masechet Sanhedrin, and it expands on the ideas that are found there. While Masechet Sanhedrin focuses on the criminal aspects of Avodah Zarah, the punishments for its worship, and so on, Masechet Avodah Zarah deals with what is permissible and what is forbidden, under what circumstances, etc.
Another interesting aspect of Avodah Zarah that is discussed in Masechet Sanhedrin is the fact that Avodah Zarah is forbidden not only to Jews but to all people of the world, as it is one of the Seven Noachide laws. This impacts on Jews, as well, since they are commanded to destroy the idol worship in the land of Israel and, theoretically, throughout the world. Even if is not within the power of the Jewish people to accomplish this, nevertheless Jews are not allow to support those who want to worship idols or assist them in doing so.
As noted, the focus of Masechet Avodah Zarah is on the need to remove oneself from idol worship and things connected with it. It is forbidden to derive benefit from the idols themselves, as well as their ornaments and donations made to them, and the Sages even decreed a severe level of ritual defilement for coming in contact with them. Similarly, participating in pagan holidays and festivals is forbidden. Much of Masechet Avodah Zarah works at defining the boundaries of what would be forbidden, whether indirect benefit from Avodah Zarah or passive participation in religious ceremonies would be permitted.
Part of the prohibition against benefitting from Avodah Zarah forbids eating food that has been sacrificed as part of a pagan ritual. One aspect of these laws revolves around wine, and specifically yayin nesekh - wine that was libated on an altar to a deity. It was common practice for idol worshipers to pour off a small amount of wine to honor their deity before drinking. Such a libation would prohibit the wine, and the practice was so widespread that it was reasonable to assume that any wine that had been touched by a non-Jew had likely been poured off to a pagan deity. This led to the establishment of a Rabbinic injunction of stam yeinam - that even ordinary wine of non-Jews that had not been used for religious purposes was forbidden. This ruling was made both because of the concern with yayin nesekh as well as because of a general interest in limiting the social interaction between Jews and pagans, as the Gemara teaches (Avodah Zarah 36b) "The Sages decreed about their wine because of their daughters."
Since Masechet Avodah Zarah teaches about the need to remove oneself from idol worship and associated practices, it is necessary to describe the details of some of the common activities that were done as Avodah Zarah. What we find in this tractate are mainly descriptions of Greco-Roman pagan practices as they expressed themselves in Israel and surrounding countries during the period of the Talmud. The Talmud anticipates that we will be able to reach conclusions regarding other pagan practices based on what we find here.
The teachings of the Torah focus on actual Avodah Zarah, and into the times of the Mishnah and Gemara Jews found themselves living among people who practiced pagan religions. Over time, however, new religions developed whose basis is in Jewish belief - such as Christianity and Islam - which are based on belief in the Creator and whose adherents follow commandments that are similar to some Torah laws (see the uncensored Rambam in his Mishneh Torah, Hilkhot Melakhim 11:4). All of the rishonim agree that adherents of these religions are not idol worshippers and should not be treated as the pagans described in the Torah. Moslems certainly worship a single God and do not offer libations of wine. There are different approaches to Christians, where we find that the Rambam views them as basically pagans, while Tosafot - and even more so the Me'iri - view them as monotheists. Therefore, although many of the laws limiting interaction with non-Jews remain in place in order to avoid intermarriage and assimilation, other laws - e.g. limits on business dealings prior to their holidays - are assumed to be permitted. This is based on statements made in the Gemara that in the Diaspora it is impossible for Jews to avoid such interactions (Avodah Zarah 7b) and that non-Jews living in Diaspora countries are not truly idol worshippers, they are just following the traditions of their fathers (Hullin 13b).
I can't see what's wrong in allowing Christians to celebrate Christmas in Israel as long as this is done within the Christian community.
I can't see what's wrong with allowing Jews to celebrate Channukah in the Vatican as long as this is done within the Jewish community..
BTW: Avodah Zarah is not exclusively Idol Worship... It simply means Strange Worship {i.e. a mode of worship not known to the patriarchs}...
It is safe to say that Judaism is more concerned with what Jews do than what gentiles do. I am certain most rabbis are much more concerned that Jews are violating the shabat in Israel, and intermarry themselves to oblivion in the exile.
I can't see what's wrong in allowing Christians to celebrate Christmas in Israel as long as this is done within the Christian community.
I can't see what's wrong with allowing Jews to celebrate Channukah in the Vatican as long as this is done within the Jewish community..
BTW: Avodah Zarah is not exclusively Idol Worship... It simply means Strange Worship {i.e. a mode of worship not known to the patriarchs}...
I can't see what's wrong in allowing Christians to celebrate Christmas in Israel as long as this is done within the Christian community.
I can't see what's wrong with allowing Jews to celebrate Channukah in the Vatican as long as this is done within the Jewish community..
BTW: Avodah Zarah is not exclusively Idol Worship... It simply means Strange Worship {i.e. a mode of worship not known to the patriarchs}...
There are many predominantly Christian Western countries where Jews freely celebrate Channukah.
I can't see what's wrong in allowing Christians to celebrate Christmas in Israel as long as this is done within the Christian community.
I can't see what's wrong with allowing Jews to celebrate Channukah in the Vatican as long as this is done within the Jewish community..
BTW: Avodah Zarah is not exclusively Idol Worship... It simply means Strange Worship {i.e. a mode of worship not known to the patriarchs}...
There are many predominantly Christian Western countries where Jews freely celebrate Channukah.
But the entire land of Eretz Yisroel is a holy land for the Jews.
I can't see what's wrong in allowing Christians to celebrate Christmas in Israel as long as this is done within the Christian community.
I can't see what's wrong with allowing Jews to celebrate Channukah in the Vatican as long as this is done within the Jewish community..
BTW: Avodah Zarah is not exclusively Idol Worship... It simply means Strange Worship {i.e. a mode of worship not known to the patriarchs}...
There are many predominantly Christian Western countries where Jews freely celebrate Channukah.
But the entire land of Eretz Yisroel is a holy land for the Jews.
I guess I'm just more liberal than you, Muman... We have Christian friends and I want them to be able to celebrate Christmas in the churches of Israel if they happen to be there at that time of the year...
Listen,Well said Muman
I don't believe that this thread should become a Jew vs. Christian thing. I just want to say that it is very sad that the Jewish state will invite foreigners to worship a non-Jewish G-d. I dont really mind what Christians do, they have many many states in which to worship. Christians have been good to Jews in the last century and that is a good thing... But I would wish that Christians have some respect for their Jewish brothers and sisters and respect the sanctity of the land. While it is true many Jews living in the land are completely secular and bring the level of Eretz Yisroel down these Jews can still do teshuva. A part of the problem when the state brings in foreign worship is that it may lead its Jewish citizens to go off the path and follow other G-ds. When Jews do this they are GARUNTEED to be thrown off the land. The Torah says point blank that the land will vomit out the Jewish inhabitants once they worship other gods... This is THE WORST sin a Jew can do, especially in the land of Israel..
http://www.tzemachdovid.org/thepracticaltorah/acharei.shtml
Ruby, they just don't get it and simply don't ever want to.Plz explain what you mean by that.
We believe very strongly that Israel is the Jewish state and should only honor Hashem and not any other religion in the land. I can bring you quotes from Torah which very strongly demonstrate what happens to the Jewish people when they follow the gods of others...
Ruby, they just don't get it and simply don't ever want to.
You're probably right.
Re: "it's idol worship which is forbidden in Judism and has no place in Israel "
True, yet we know that in ancient Israel some of our great Kings allowed their foreign wives to practice their own religions, and I don't see any devout Jews burning the Jewish Scriptures in protest!
Or, if you disagree, please elaborate on how such a system of statehood will work and survive.
Re: "Solomon's misdeeds. It turned out terrible for the Jews and Israel, resulting in the separation of Israel and Judah, and eventually the destruction of both kingdoms. "
So then, you do agree with me that any and all mention of Solomon must be expunged and removed from all Jewish Scriptures, correct?
Otherwise Jews will continue boasting of "the Wisdom of Shlomo!"
Last I heard, a Rabbi was telling me he was renowned during his time as "The Wisest Man on Earth!"
Now, YOU are telling me that the "Wisest Man on Earth" caused the destruction of his own Jewish Nation because he didn't even have the good sense to obey G-d!
Is there some irony here I haven't yet grasped?
Which one is it?
http://www.ou.org/taryag/index/reasons/
Reasons vs. Lessons
In general, your humble author shies away from discussing the “reasons” for mitzvos, preferring to focus on the “lessons.” There are numerous reasons for this.
The Torah rarely gives reasons for the mitzvos. In one famous instance, it does. Deuteronomy 17:16-17 says:
“The king shall not gather himself many horses, which would cause the people to return to Egypt in order to get horses, since G-d told you not to return that way again. Nor shall the king many wives for himself, as this will cause his heart to turn astray...”
Regarding these mitzvos, the reasons are overtly stated. Nevertheless, King Solomon, the wisest of all men, was able to err in them. The Talmud in Sanhedrin (21b) explains that Shlomo (Solomon), knowing the reasons, said, “I can gather many horses and I’ll just make sure the people don’t return to Egypt; I can gather many wives and just be careful not to turn astray.” Nevertheless, the people did return to Egypt to engage in the horse trade (see I Kings 10:29) and some of Shlomo’s many wives built idols in his household, for which he was considered responsible (see I Kings 11:4). So knowing the reasons for mitzvos can be dangerous, as it tempts one into thinking that the reasons don’t apply.
On the other hand, the Talmud in Brachos (33b) seems to disapprove of ascribing motivations to mitzvos whose reasons are unstated. It says that we should silence one who adds the words “Your mercy is even on the bird’s nest,” referring to the mitzvah to shoo away a mother bird before taking the young from the nest (Deuteronomy 22:6-7). The Gemara asks the reason for the objection and it answers along the lines of, “Who are we to decide that the reason for this mitzvah is G-d’s mercy? The reason is that He said so!”
So there are two motivations for us to avoid defining the reasons for the mitzvos: (1) it’s presumptuous and (2) to know the reasons for the mitzvos can lead one to focus on the reason to the exclusion of the behavior that G-d wants from us. (A famous example is that those who attribute kashrus to health reasons would argue that modern medicine renders those mitzvos moot, G-d forbid. If the reason for Shabbos is to rest, driving is more restful than walking, etc.) However, this position, is not universal.
The Rambam understands the objection of the Talmud differently. He says in his Commentary on the Mishna (Brachos 5:3) that the reason we silence one who ascribes the mitzvah of sending away the mother bird to mercy is because it’s simply inaccurate. “It’s not so,” the Rambam writes. “If it was because of mercy, then we would never be permitted to sacrifice animals at all. Rather, (sending the bird away) is a mitzvah we have been instructed without being given a reason.” The Rambam does not, however, object to analyzing the reasons of the mitzvos per se. He writes in Moreh HaNevuchim (The Guide for the Perplexed) 3:48, “It is one of two opinions of the Sages to say that there’s no reason for the mitzvos other than that G-d told us to do them. We, however, subscribe to the second opinion.” And you’ll see that Rambam, Nachmanides and the Sefer HaChinuch, among others, do discuss the reasons for the mitzvos, even for those not stated by G-d in the Torah.
Even the Rambam, however, treads carefully in this area. Recognizing the trap into which King Solomon fell, he sates, “If we knew the reasons underlying all the mitzvos, we would find excuses to do away with all of them… saying that G d only commanded one thing and forbade another because of such-and-such reason, therefore we will safeguard the reason and not have to do the mitzvah… This is why G-d did not reveal the reason behind most mitzvos, and the reasons for many others are beyond the comprehension of the average person…” (This appears at the end of his discussion of the aforementioned mitzvos of the king, which is the last mitzvah in the Rambam’s Sefer HaMitzvos – Negative Mitzvah #365.)
And so, despite our usual hesitancy to do so, we shall use the term “reasons” when discussing the mitzvos, at least insofar as we are citing the reasons stated by our authorities. Other observations, especially our own, will be considered lessons that can be derived from the mitzvos.
I don't think that Israeli taxpayers should pay for this. If they're going to go on vacation to Israel, it should be private money funding it only. I just didn't like the tone of wonga's post.Me neither but at least he is an equal-opportunity anti-religious zealot. Usually he is bashing religious Jews. ::)
Ruby, they just don't get it and simply don't ever want to.Shut up. You are the Christian version of Muman or Ron.
I might be talking out of my butt on this one so forgive me if I offend any of you on this take::clap: :clap: :clap:
I think it's fine and all that these 33 miners come and visit Israel. If they are Christian they aren't going to worship in synogogues Christianity. They are going to existing churches wherever they might be in Jerusalem. I doubt these miners have anything against Jews.
In the end of times when the Moshiach comes, in my opinion, righteous gentiles who happen to be Christian will know and pursue what is right in Judaism's eyes whether it is Noahidism or Judaism.
I love our righteous Christian gentiles. Despite our disagreements in theology, you still believe in Gd and good moral things and for me that's sufficient for the time being. I mean we can't agree on everything, right? However, we can work together and discuss our differences respectably.
Ruby, they just don't get it and simply don't ever want to.Shut up. You are the Christian version of Muman or Ron.
Irish Zionist, we all respect your beliefs but you are not just stating them, but bashing other peoples' religions. Do you honestly believe that the world would be a better place if the only religions on earth besides Judaism were paganism and Islam? Do you believe you would care about Israel today if you were raised in the faith of your Stonehenge Druid ancestors? Do you honestly believe that a pagan Europe would be enlightened, progressive, and philo-Semitic? We have pagans of European descent today--people such as Incogman, David Duke, and Richard Spencer. Are you going to tell me that they are great Zionists?
You are the phoniest Christian I've ever met in my entire life, Dr. Brennan Fan the way you let your fellow Christians get disrespected and attacked. You're nothing but a stupid Judas if there ever was one. I'll continue to stand up for my people, which doesn't include you, you little Eminem-worshipper.And Ron got mad when I compared the two of you. ::) :laugh: :::D
IT'S A TRAP!
All related to Israel's new interpretation of Zionism as the Jews being nothing more than "Jewish Molemen" who dig underground to hide from the A-rabs!
Once Chile Con Carne and his gang arrive in Israel, they will be tricked by the Molim Yehudim into descending below ground to continue digging tunnels for their Jewish Taskmasters!:suave:
But your still ok with celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land correct? This kind of idol worship is forbidden in Judism and should be outlawed in Israel.Ruby don't you find how discusting this is? Jews celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land at Jewish Taxpayers expense!
I don't think that Israeli taxpayers should pay for this. If they're going to go on vacation to Israel, it should be private money funding it only. I just didn't like the tone of wonga's post.
You're just full of all the good answers, muman613, so I'm waiting until YOU make immediate aliyah in order that I have sufficient faith to follow your path!:::D :::D :::D
You're just full of all the good answers, muman613, so I'm waiting until YOU make immediate aliyah in order that I have sufficient faith to follow your path!:::D :::D :::D
Re: "The misdeeds of the past may be repeated, but we should do our best to prevent them. "
More easily done had Kahanists been the ones establishing the State back in '48.
But given the present day realities, my question is this:
How to create a viable Kahanist State out of what is present reality as The State of Israel?
I am asking for specifics set forth as a plan for action and success.
We're not blaming the miners or Xtians.
We are blaming the ignorant and also subsersive Israeli Jewish Erev Rav government, for making Torah Judaism appear as a primus inter pares, and that Israel "is equally Holy to all religions, which is a subtle preparation of the Jewish public for divvying up Jerusalem, or as Smolmert called it, "The Holy Basin"!
Re: "Israel is a Jewish state with Jewish Laws ":::D
Incorrect.
The State of Israel is a state with no constitution, and a legal system hodgepodge of Ottoman Turkish Law, British Law, and whoever knows what else;
Re: "it's idol worship which is forbidden in Judism and has no place in Israel "
True, yet we know that in ancient Israel some of our great Kings allowed their foreign wives to practice their own religions, and I don't see any devout Jews burning the Jewish Scriptures in protest!
Well, Jew!
How about it?
Is idol worship in Israel absolutely prohibited under any and all circumstances, or does the rule exclude the harems of Jewish Kings?
I love it when "the Jewish Taliban" who are already living in "The World To Come" studying at the feet of Moshiach [at least in their own minds and dreams], comes face to face with the REALITY of daily existence at a geographic location designated in Torah as The Land of Israel.
They continue to incorrectly refer to the modern day STATE of Israel as "Israel " as if both labels accurately define Eretz Yisrael of Torah as it will exist in The World To Come.
And even in Eretz Yisrael of Torah, the Children of Israel disobeyed Ha'Shem and left some "inhabitants of The Land" alive and living alongside them.
This mindset of "rigid absolutism" will last until its adherents all awaken one day living in a State of Israel with no revenue from tourism, no foreign trade, no income from revenue to run government, no communications with the non-Jewish world, and no religious practices allowed except their own.
This is the GREAT DILEMMA confronting those who advocate a Jewish State as opposed to a State full of Jews.
What worked two thousand years ago has no relevance in modern times.
Or, if you disagree, please elaborate on how such a system of statehood will work and survive.
Re: "Solomon's misdeeds. It turned out terrible for the Jews and Israel, resulting in the separation of Israel and Judah, and eventually the destruction of both kingdoms. "
So then, you do agree with me that any and all mention of Solomon must be expunged and removed from all Jewish Scriptures, correct?
Otherwise Jews will continue boasting of "the Wisdom of Shlomo!"
Last I heard, a Rabbi was telling me he was renowned during his time as "The Wisest Man on Earth!"
Now, YOU are telling me that the "Wisest Man on Earth" caused the destruction of his own Jewish Nation because he didn't even have the good sense to obey G-d!
So then, you do agree with me that any and all mention of Solomon must be expunged and removed from all Jewish Scriptures, correct?
On the other hand ...
A Lubavitcher Rabbi taught me that when it comes to "free will", national leaders do not have it, but are controlled by Ha'Shem.
Did Ha'Shem make Shlomo sin on purpose, so Ha'Shem could destroy his nation, so that we could all learn a valuable lesson?
Ruby, they just don't get it and simply don't ever want to.Shut up. You are the Christian version of Muman or Ron.
Irish Zionist, we all respect your beliefs but you are not just stating them, but bashing other peoples' religions. Do you honestly believe that the world would be a better place if the only religions on earth besides Judaism were paganism and Islam? Do you believe you would care about Israel today if you were raised in the faith of your Stonehenge Druid ancestors? Do you honestly believe that a pagan Europe would be enlightened, progressive, and philo-Semitic? We have pagans of European descent today--people such as Incogman, David Duke, and Richard Spencer. Are you going to tell me that they are great Zionists?
You are the phoniest Christian I've ever met in my entire life, Dr. Brennan Fan the way you let your fellow Christians get disrespected and attacked. You're nothing but a stupid Judas if there ever was one. I'll continue to stand up for my people, which doesn't include you, you little Eminem-worshipper.
But what really gets to me is the comparisons of Christianity to islam or the many ancient pagan religions that existed in the Levant before the modern age.
It just shows an utter lack of respect to us as Christians who love Israel and Jews. Israel is holy to us as well and unlike the muslims, we don't want to steamroll it, kill all the Jews and make it part of some caliphate. So stop comparing us to wild-eyed ishmaelite savages or pagans. Can you understand how offensive it is to have your religion compared to islam or paganism?
Than you Dr. Dan for your post.
I don't think Israeli taxpayers should foot the bill for this.
On the other hand, I don't like the tone of Wonga's first post on this thread. We Jews and Christians have different religious beliefs. Wonga, you need to stop beating the Christian members over their heads about this.
Ruby don't you find how discusting this is? Jews celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land at Jewish Taxpayers expense!
I don't think that Israeli taxpayers should pay for this. If they're going to go on vacation to Israel, it should be private money funding it only. I just didn't like the tone of wonga's post.
It is outrages that the very Halacha that Avodah Zara
should be eliminated from the Holy Land is debated and
not accepted.
Celebrate your holidays at home, not in the Holy Land.
I am not bashing Xtianity. I am just against a non Jewish religion celebrating Idols in Israel. Idol worship is FORBIDDEN in Judism.Ruby, they just don't get it and simply don't ever want to.Shut up. You are the Christian version of Muman or Ron.
Irish Zionist, we all respect your beliefs but you are not just stating them, but bashing other peoples' religions. Do you honestly believe that the world would be a better place if the only religions on earth besides Judaism were paganism and Islam? Do you believe you would care about Israel today if you were raised in the faith of your Stonehenge Druid ancestors? Do you honestly believe that a pagan Europe would be enlightened, progressive, and philo-Semitic? We have pagans of European descent today--people such as Incogman, David Duke, and Richard Spencer. Are you going to tell me that they are great Zionists?
Shut up. You are the Christian version of Muman or Ron.Well that was uncalled for.
One day Ron Ben Michael you will grow up. That was totally uncalled for.Ruby don't you find how discusting this is? Jews celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land at Jewish Taxpayers expense!
I don't think that Israeli taxpayers should pay for this. If they're going to go on vacation to Israel, it should be private money funding it only. I just didn't like the tone of wonga's post.
Our religion forbids the existence of any other religion in the Land of Israel,
because it is a direct violation of the very reason the Jewish people were
created and why they have been given the Land of Israel to rule over.
When you say this we feel the same way you'd feel had we've been
breaking into your local church reciting what the Talmud says about
your "Messiah"/idol.
Re: "This is the ranting of a crazy man that seems to need medication. Of course, you really didn't mean what you wrote, so why did you write it, exactly? "
This is the pot calling the kettle black.
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.>:(
So then, you do agree with me that any and all mention of Solomon must be expunged and removed from all Jewish Scriptures, correct?
It's really no big deal in my opinion they are Christians i think there are many Churches in Israel let them visit.
The Holy Land also has sites that are important to Christians because they were mentioned in the NT. There are reasons why Christians might want to visit these sites where Jesus walked and lived. If they are strictly not allowed to missionize, then I don't see how this threatens the Jewish state or its Jewish culture or religion.
http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/chrysler/archives/balak70.htm
Rabeinu Bachye, discussing the above Pasuk, explains that Yisrael are a special nation who dwell alone (in this world), and who are not reckoned among the nations, because, in keeping with the explanation of Targum Yonasan, they are unique on account of both their Torah and their faith. And he adds that, by virtue of the 'Lamed' that prefixes the word "le'vodod", the Pasuk can also be translated to mean that they belong to the G-d who dwells alone.
According to R. Bachye's interpretation of the Pasuk, this is not a prophecy, but rather Bil'am singing the praises of Yisrael (in keeping with the Pesukim that follow, where he lists a number of special Mitzvos that Yisrael perform). What Bil'am therefore means to say is that just as Hashem is unique among the gods, together with whom He cannot be reckoned, so too, are Yisrael, who are His people, unique, in that they cannot be reckoned among the nations of the world. One of the many Pesukim that the author cites in support of this explanation is the Pasuk at the end of Kedoshim (20:26) " … and I will divide you from among the nations to become Mine".
*
The Ha'mek Davar goes one step further. He explains that when other nations go into exile, they make every effort to integrate with their host nation. They know that by doing so, they will find favour in their eyes and that by merging into one nation, they will earn their affection and popularity more than they would by retaining their own customs and way of life. Not so Yisrael. By retaining their Torah lifestyle, he explains, they will earn the respect and admiration of their captors, as the Torah writes in Ki Savo (28:10) "And all the nations of the land will see that the Name of G-d is upon you and they will be afraid of you!"
*
Quoting a Gemara in Sanhedrin (104a), the Ha'mek Davar explains that G-d wants Yisrael to maintain a division between themselves and the nations of the world. As long as they do, they will be secure (as the Torah writes in ve'Zos ha'B'rachah [33:28]). When they don't, they will be left to the mercy of the nations, which will eventually lead to the implementation of the lament in the opening Pasuk of Eichah "How she (Yerushalayim) dwells alone!" The key word in both Pesukim is the same as the key word here - "Bodod".
As long as Yisrael maintains the division between themselves and the nations of the world - even when they are in Galus, they will live securely. And it is when they aspire to emulate the lifestyle and customs of their captors that their captors despise them and turn against them (which is how the author explains "u'va'goyim lo yischashov"). That is why the Pasuk in Kedoshim that we quoted earlier writes "And I will divide you from among the nations …" Because a division there must be! When we make that division, the nations respect us. But when we don't, then G-d will make it. For so Chazal have said 'When there is Din below (on earth) then there is no Din above. But whenever there is no Din below, then there is Din above!'
There is a reason Hashem commanded the Jewish people to remove all Avodah Zarah from the land. This was done to ensure the survival of the Jewish people. Hashem, in many parts of the Torah, is clear that there should be no foreign gods worshipped in the land. Even to the point of tearing down and destroying their idols. Jews throughout history have been tempted to do avodah zarah by the peoples who live in the land. The Torah clearly says to drive these bad influences out of the land.
I am sorry if that seems harsh. But there are how many Christian counties? How many Muslim countries? And how many Jewish states? Only one... Let the Jews keep their religion in Israel and keep the foreign G-d worship elsewhere... Please...
Well that was uncalled for.For the record I was speaking to Coon, who is antagonizing Jews constantly, but the comment could easily apply to you too with your recent behavior.
The Holy Land also has sites that are important to Christians because they were mentioned in the NT. There are reasons why Christians might want to visit these sites where Jesus walked and lived. If they are strictly not allowed to missionize, then I don't see how this threatens the Jewish state or its Jewish culture or religion.
Of course. I am a Jew and I fully agree with you. You should not even have to make your point.
Well that was uncalled for.For the record I was speaking to Coon, who is antagonizing Jews constantly, but the comment could easily apply to you too with your recent behavior.
By antagonizing Jews you must mean standing up for Christians when certain posters demean and compare our faith to pagan idol worship or even demonic islam. Maybe if you should spend more time defending your own from vicious verbal attacks instead of posting about Eminem or Miley Cyrus.Says the poster who said it is the Jews' fault that we have Obama. If you think I am gay because I expose Eminem's gayness, then I think that you are the boyfriend of Wonga or Ron.
The Holy Land also has sites that are important to Christians
It is outrages that the very Halacha that Avodah Zara
should be eliminated from the Holy Land is debated and
not accepted.
Celebrate your holidays at home, not in the Holy Land.
But the biblical prohibition of Avodah Zara was written against pagans. Do you view Christians as pagans ?
One day Ron Ben Michael you will grow up. That was totally uncalled for.Ruby don't you find how discusting this is? Jews celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land at Jewish Taxpayers expense!
I don't think that Israeli taxpayers should pay for this. If they're going to go on vacation to Israel, it should be private money funding it only. I just didn't like the tone of wonga's post.
Our religion forbids the existence of any other religion in the Land of Israel,
because it is a direct violation of the very reason the Jewish people were
created and why they have been given the Land of Israel to rule over.
When you say this we feel the same way you'd feel had we've been
breaking into your local church reciting what the Talmud says about
your "Messiah"/idol.
I feel very sorry for you.
I don't have to bash, question, or ridicule your faith. Mostly because I'm very secure in my own.
Is that how the Talmud tells you to act?
I'm sad to see threads like this over and over again.
I'm sure it's turning good, and potential, members away.
What? For telling the truth that Xmas being celebrated in Jewish Land as obscene? Well if you support a foreign holiday in Israel that worships idols then you don't support Israel as a Jewish state with Jewish laws. And I have never said that Xtians can't travel to Israel.Well that was uncalled for.For the record I was speaking to Coon, who is antagonizing Jews constantly, but the comment could easily apply to you too with your recent behavior.
By saying that every sign of another religion should be thrown out of Israel to avoid temptation, you are making Jews look like weaklings who are unsure of their faith.
If you think I am gay because I expose Eminem's gayness, then I think that you are the boyfriend of Wonga or Ron.
What? For telling the truth that Xmas being celebrated in Jewish Land as obscene? Well if you support a foreign holiday in Israel that worships idols then you don't support Israel as a Jewish state with Jewish laws. And I have never said that Xtians can't travel to Israel.Well that was uncalled for.For the record I was speaking to Coon, who is antagonizing Jews constantly, but the comment could easily apply to you too with your recent behavior.
Just not in December right?
QuoteJust not in December right?
If they're prepared to sacrifice Xmas while in Israel, why should that be a problem?
You are wrong Ron Ben Michael.One day Ron Ben Michael you will grow up. That was totally uncalled for.Ruby don't you find how discusting this is? Jews celebrating Xmas in The Holy Land at Jewish Taxpayers expense!
I don't think that Israeli taxpayers should pay for this. If they're going to go on vacation to Israel, it should be private money funding it only. I just didn't like the tone of wonga's post.
Our religion forbids the existence of any other religion in the Land of Israel,
because it is a direct violation of the very reason the Jewish people were
created and why they have been given the Land of Israel to rule over.
When you say this we feel the same way you'd feel had we've been
breaking into your local church reciting what the Talmud says about
your "Messiah"/idol.
I feel very sorry for you.
I don't have to bash, question, or ridicule your faith. Mostly because I'm very secure in my own.
Is that how the Talmud tells you to act?
I'm sad to see threads like this over and over again.
I'm sure it's turning good, and potential, members away.
You have the need to focus on my age and tell me to behave because you obviously don't like what I say.
You have a problem with Judaism's position - not my position - and you want to silent it because it's not
"politically incorrect" or polite to stand up for your faith. You think it's right for me to betray the principles of my faith because it does endanger your faith and it endagers your position on Jewish-Xtian co-operation.
Chaim, although he disagrees with me on co-operation with you, agrees with me that Xtianity is Idolatry according to Judaism. That's the Jewish position. He just says we should keep our differences apart and work together for what he calls "common goals". Chaim as a man of principles, same as I am, will not silence Judaism for the sake of public relations. If the Eminem lover calls this a Jewish version of Nazism, he must refer to Judaism and not only to me.
It is outrages that the very Halacha that Avodah Zara
should be eliminated from the Holy Land is debated and
not accepted.
Celebrate your holidays at home, not in the Holy Land.
But the biblical prohibition of Avodah Zara was written against pagans. Do you view Christians as pagans ?
Judaism clearly sees Xtianity as Paganism. Xtianity's realization of Divinity formed in Jesus, and the Trinity is Shituf. Also, basic principles and holidays of Xtianity and even its very symbol are originated in earlier Pagan religions. I can bring many sources if you want.
By saying that every sign of another religion should be thrown out of Israel to avoid temptation, you are making Jews look like weaklings who are unsure of their faith.What you say is actually the argument Missionaries use when they cry out about being banned from Jewish forums. "You don't me to post twisted missionary videos on your forum, then you must be insecure with your
faith!".
No, he makes Jews look like the real owners of the land who by accepting the existence of religions which denounce/twist Torah Judaism are defilling the Torah Land. There is a good reason why Gerei Toshav can
only be Noahides, not Xtians nor Michael Jackson worshippers.
And can those of you who insist on typing "Xtians" explain why exactly won't you spell the word correctly ? May I suggest you use the word "Nozrim" as we call Christians in Hebrew if you can't spell the English term ?
Using "Xtian" is a sign of disrespect in my opinion, but it's hardly worth mentioning when people have the audacity to call us idol worshippers. I'm pretty sure it's rationalized that saying "Christ" means they're engaging in idolatry and that's why they can't say or type it.
What? For telling the truth that Xmas being celebrated in Jewish Land as obscene? Well if you support a foreign holiday in Israel that worships idols then you don't support Israel as a Jewish state with Jewish laws. And I have never said that Xtians can't travel to Israel.You're not even Jewish, so it's time to lay off the outrage.
Then it should be written XRistian.Using "Xtian" is a sign of disrespect in my opinion, but it's hardly worth mentioning when people have the audacity to call us idol worshippers. I'm pretty sure it's rationalized that saying "Christ" means they're engaging in idolatry and that's why they can't say or type it.
The "X" is rooted in ancient Greek and is a symbol for Christ. There is no disrespect meant when using it and those who believe there is are mistaken. In fact, Christian in Greek is Χριστιανός. Note the "X" at the beginning of the word.
Then it should be written XRistian.Using "Xtian" is a sign of disrespect in my opinion, but it's hardly worth mentioning when people have the audacity to call us idol worshippers. I'm pretty sure it's rationalized that saying "Christ" means they're engaging in idolatry and that's why they can't say or type it.
The "X" is rooted in ancient Greek and is a symbol for Christ. There is no disrespect meant when using it and those who believe there is are mistaken. In fact, Christian in Greek is Χριστιανός. Note the "X" at the beginning of the word.
What? For telling the truth that Xmas being celebrated in Jewish Land as obscene? Well if you support a foreign holiday in Israel that worships idols then you don't support Israel as a Jewish state with Jewish laws. And I have never said that Xtians can't travel to Israel.You're not even Jewish, so it's time to lay off the outrage.
So why can't people just say Christian on an English-speaking forum? There has to be more than that. Are Jews forbidden in some circles of opinion from saying "Christ" like they not allowed to type G-d without a hyphen? I'm not attacking, just trying to understand why some do it. I view it as disrespectful because liberals use Xmas to remove the religious meaning of Christmas.Yes Coon, great Christian guy you are, praising Rick Sanchez, saying that it is the Jews' fault Obama was elected, and saying that Rand Paul and Pat Buchanan are better than Democrats.
So now I have to be Jewish to defend Israel?What? For telling the truth that Xmas being celebrated in Jewish Land as obscene? Well if you support a foreign holiday in Israel that worships idols then you don't support Israel as a Jewish state with Jewish laws. And I have never said that Xtians can't travel to Israel.You're not even Jewish, so it's time to lay off the outrage.
So why can't people just say Christian on an English-speaking forum? There has to be more than that. Are Jews forbidden in some circles of opinion from saying "Christ" like they not allowed to type G-d without a hyphen? I'm not attacking, just trying to understand why some do it. I view it as disrespectful because liberals use Xmas to remove the religious meaning of Christmas.
HiWarp, I'd just like to know if there's a reason other than laziness as you say that some posters only use Xian instead of Christian.Because the Greek word christ literally means messiah?
HiWarp, I'd just like to know if there's a reason other than laziness as you say that some posters only use Xian instead of Christian.Because the Greek word christ literally means messiah?
christ means anointed, messiah means anointed.HiWarp, I'd just like to know if there's a reason other than laziness as you say that some posters only use Xian instead of Christian.Because the Greek word christ literally means messiah?
Actually it means anointed, but close enough.
DBF, you think Miley Cyrus is the most evil person in America and you're saying my moral compass is out of whack? Please, you're a total joke. I don't even know what to make of you. You post relentlessly on amoral celebrities yet admit you listen to heavy metal garbage and wigger trash like Insane Clown Posse which promote the same evils to our youth/society. You think obscene emo-goth women like that obese Beth girl are attractive despite the fact that goth crap promotes godlessness and nihilism. What the hell is it you stand for? You seem to think everyone who doesn't agree word-for-word with what Chaim says is an anti-semite. You say you are a Christian yet you never say a word when people attack your faith. Unlike you, I'm damn proud of my opinions and I have the balls to say what I think. I actually have more respect for Ron or muman than you, even though they think my Christian faith is totally wrong. At least they tirelessly stand up for what they understand Judaism to be. All you do is sit on your hands while yours are demeaned.
Sanchez was spot on with that piece of excrement Stewart, who is one of the sorriest excuses for Judenrat scum on the face of the planet. I hope he dies of cancer and his soul is obliterated in the bowels of hell. You can slander Christians all day on the major liberal networks but when one of their employees dares mention something halfway anti-Semitic like Sanchez.
All the media organizations that destroyed the morals of America are/were run by self-hating Jews. All the music companies that promote black jungle noise to kids and morally sickening filth. Many of the major economic institutions that destroyed the economy were created/run by self-hating Jews. There would be no black muslim president without the support of Jews.
A poor decision in my opinion. Voting for a democrat is worse than Rand Paul.
America should come first for Americans. Israel first for Israelis. And no, the interests of Israel are not always the same as America
At least Rand Paul has domestic policies that are good for America.
I think we need to allow more muslim and black nazi trolls on this forum so that you guys stop arguing with each other...this is so silly. >:(
So why can't people just say Christian on an English-speaking forum? There has to be more than that. Are Jews forbidden in some circles of opinion from saying "Christ" like they not allowed to type G-d without a hyphen? I'm not attacking, just trying to understand why some do it. I view it as disrespectful because liberals use Xmas to remove the religious meaning of Christmas.Well when I think of it a bit more I can see why some non-Christians wouldn't want to spell "Christ-" because Christ is basically messiah in Greek, and of course Jews or any other non-Christian don't believe Jesus is Christ, which is why for example I would normally won't refer to Jesus with the name "Christ". But when it come to the word, Christian for e at least, it just means someone who believes that Jesus is Christ, it doesn't say anything about me, so I don't have a problem spelling it.
my cat's droppings hold more weight than anything you have to say.In what sense would you mean that? If by that you mean that its fecal logs absorb all the denials, doublespeak, lies, and insults emanating from your mouth, why then yes, they probably would be more bulky and laden-down than my words.
:::Dmy cat's droppings hold more weight than anything you have to say.In what sense would you mean that? If by that you mean that its fecal logs absorb all the denials, doublespeak, lies, and insults emanating from your mouth, why then yes, they probably would be more bulky and laden-down than my words.
Re: "why can't people just say Christian on an English-speaking forum? "
As a young boy in Hebrew school in a place with very few Jews, all of whom were isolated from "vibrant" Jewish communities like NY City, my teacher taught us that we must never write the word "Christ" because it means "Messiah" in Greek, and that the continuous writing of words like "Christ-mas" (trans: Birth of Messiah) or "Christian" (follower of Messiah) would brainwash us eventually into always referring to someone not accepted as our Messiah to be the Moshiach of the Jews.
We were instructed to substitute "Xian" as our way of showing our refusal to submit to the beliefs of the overwhelming majority outside our classroom which claimed that G-d became a man.
Further:
In Western Christendom, all dates have been redefined as being either "Anno Domini", abbreviated as A._D. (trans: "In the Year of Our Lord" [meaning Jesus as Lord equal to G-d is ruling over the planet] , or B._C. (meaning Before Christ Messiah's birth) [with the implication that all of history was a mere prelude to that one day and therefore no longer relevant].
We were therefore instructed to substitute the designations B.C.E. (Before the Common Era) and C.E. (the Common Era [in which we are currently living a/k/a the modern age].
I hope this helps end the "emotional" tone which has been growing among some members because of a little ignorance aggravated by childish insults.
I tend to think that most here writing these abbreviations may not even be aware of why it is they are doing it.
I do not believe they either intended or intend any deliberate insult or hurt towards Christians here.
Most were probably told to write like that since the first day they went to Synagogue.
And I hope that all here will ignore whatever slurs and insults follow from those who make their past time slinging scheisse .
Me? I'm all too well aware that the dominant majority religion writes and thinks in Christian terms. I'm an adult and not swayed by reading the abbreviations and terms of others in print.
And just for the record, Jews and Christians are not the only people on Earth dating things with their own interpretations of history - it is a universal practice everywhere you go.
No, that is meshumad "Brother" Nathanel Kapner. An apostate Jew makes the very worst type of Xtian!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=176RASLgzIQ
At least the Chileans weren't here over Xmas!http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?ID=209466
For gentiles to come to Israel to give thanks to Hashem Elokim Elokei Yisrael, by all means.
But to be invited to Israel by the Israeli government at the Jewish taxpayer's expense in order to give thanks to Yoshki in Jerusalem churches, is a national disgrace, IMHO!
Remember: the G-d of Israel, the deity of Islam, and the man of Xtianity, are not one and the same: we do NOT all worship the same G-d!
Jus' defending Jewish kovod against all comers, no doubt an alien concept to you, mumar 613?!
No, that is meshumad "Brother" Nathanel Kapner. As can be seen here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=176RASLgzIQ an apostate Jew makes the very worst type of Xtian!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=176RASLgzIQ