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Save Western Civilization => Save Serbia => Topic started by: Zelhar on January 06, 2011, 06:39:01 AM
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I am curious to know how do Serbs get along with the folk from the minor Yugoslav republics (Slovenia, Macedonia, Montenegro). Have Serbs been persecuted by any of them, or ethnically cleansed ?
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I am curious to know how do Serbs get along with the folk from the minor Yugoslav republics (Slovenia, Macedonia, Montenegro). Have Serbs been persecuted by any of them, or ethnically cleansed ?
Almost all macedonians are serbs (genetical 80-90%), but just that, there is a small group of people who says that they are serbs!Montenegrins are 100% serbs, but approximately one half denies its origins(Milo's followers), other half is tyrannized by frist half! serbs in Slovenia are minority, and dont have some specifically place in that Society!
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I am curious to know how do Serbs get along with the folk from the minor Yugoslav republics (Slovenia, Macedonia, Montenegro). Have Serbs been persecuted by any of them, or ethnically cleansed ?
Hey Zelhar,
we have a kind of schizophrenic relations with all three countries/peoples.
Montenegrins are indeed ethnically Serbs, and throughout history they were the biggest Serbian nationalists and they basically preserved our nation from extinction. Majority of population of Serbia have ancestors in Montenegro. That is why it's ironic, majority of Montenegrins claiming they have no connection with Serbs, but you should know it's all Vatican's project. About a third of their population stays loyal to their Serbian name, with divisions often in the same family. For example, two brothers will claim to be of different nationalities.
Officially, we are still "brothers" with them, while they recognized Kosovo as an independent country. Those who wish to remain Serbs are under pressure from the government. The scale of their treason is unimaginable, but our leadership pretends it's not a problem.
The situation with Macedonia is pretty much the same. Their nationality is not that clear, though. Some say they are Serbs, some say they are Bulgarians, and some even claim to be descendants of ancient Macedonians, hence the conflict with Greece. Our connection with them is not like with Montenegro, and we consider them a "friendly" country. They also recognized Kosovo and put Serbs under government pressure.
Slovenia is a country we had no connection with until the early 20th century. They also claim to be our friends, but an overwhelming majority of them are backstabbing rats who only look their own interest with no consideration for others. They're not enemies like Croats, but definitely are not friends. Serbs in Slovenia are guest workers and live like in any other western European country.
I hope this was helpful, if you have any other questions, be free to ask.
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The situation with Macedonia is pretty much the same. Their nationality is not that clear, though. Some say they are Serbs, some say they are Bulgarians, and some even claim to be descendants of ancient Macedonians, hence the conflict with Greece. Our connection with them is not like with Montenegro, and we consider them a "friendly" country. They also recognized Kosovo and put Serbs under government pressure.
Only fools believe that macedonians are greeks(ancient Macedonians)! for example ancient Macedonians call themselves Hellens (greeks). Macedonia its a territory, and real Macedonia(province) is on the north of Greece to the souther border of FYR Macedonia! And that is a reason why Macedonians calls their state FYR Macedonia , Greeks dont allows that! For greeks that is a attack on the sovereignty of Greece and fiction of real history, and they have full right for that!
Macedonians had a surnames like serbs,with suffix "ić" (ich) but they, changed that in the close history!
They flag was like this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Flag_of_Greek_Macedonia.svg or with red background
But that was a flag of ancient Macedonians(greeks) so Greece forbid using of this flag, now they have like this flag http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/world-countries-flags/macedonia-flag.gif
similar, but more with old Japan flag then ancient Macedonia!
http://www.flags.net/images/largeflags/JAPA0007.GIF
Language that uses Macedonians are ancient serbian dialect, I can understand the 90%(maybe more) words and context, when an Macedonian speaks!There is In the souther serbia dialect very similar to Language that uses Macedonians,they understand each other very well!
They have a 10-20% genes of bularians, greeks,albanians... but they are serbs 80-90%!
You see, Serbs from Montenegro are Montenegrians,from Bosnia they are Bosnians,Herzegovina - Herzegovinians,from srbija - Srbijanci,... that is just territorial designation(like, for example,Yehudah land and Israel, not exactly,but very similar) and that is the same with macedonians, but they denies serbian origen, like croats and muslims from BIH!
PS territory of FYR Macedonia always been serbian land! Now FYR Macedonia have a same problem with a albanians like we had,. Albanians want a 1/3 -1/2 of FYR Macedonia and half of Skoplje Capital city!
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Yes I know that the Albanians are a trying to takeover part of Macedonia. If they stayed united with Serbia I think the Macedonians could defend their country better.
So what about the Slovenians,You don't consider them to be of Serb origins ? I think they speak similar language don't they ?
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Yes I know that the Albanians are a trying to takeover part of Macedonia. If they stayed united with Serbia I think the Macedonians could defend their country better.
So what about the Slovenians,You don't consider them to be of Serb origins ? I think they speak similar language don't they ?
Macedonians will never(at least in close future) approach to serbs because they are manipulated(and some serb to) from Western states, they our ecumenical, and some serbs are responsible for this loss! Macedonian orthodox church dont have autocephalous, FYR Macedonia, Bosnia and herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro and Serbia is territory under the Serbian Orthodox Church (Serbian Patriarchy) so other Orthodox churches cant have autocephalous(independence)! Macedonians declare the autocephalous without legal act(on force) supported by Vatican(unofficially off course ).All this is done by ecumenic Macedonian's orthodox priests! So our orthodox priests(and that one who recognize the serbian Patriarchy) are hunted in Macedonia like a wild beast!
Same thing its done by Montenegro (with same background). Montenegro also change his Writing (few years ago), only few letters (nothing important, stupidity) and now that language have a name, nor serbian, not Montenegrian, than 'Native language' , funny is it not? ^-^
Just watch Montenegro and you will understand how had happened that we have Croats, Muslim(Bosnians), Macedonians... But not just serbia,you will understand how they change language,names,culture,history ....
Off course, Head Chef was a Pope, and thats why this eating is so bitterly!
Slovenians,for close history they are not serbs but for long history, maybe?But, surely they are connected to us genetical, somehow! I can understand maybe 10-20% percent of Slovenian language not more, I can even better to understand Czecho-slovakian language , 40-50%, or more if he speaks slow!
The official history says that we are all Slavs, but i do not trust in official history, its made by western countries. There is some suspicion that word serb=Slav. But that is just theory and this is so far from topic!
But one thing is for sure, serbs are not barbarians and they are came on Balkan before 6-7th century!....
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PS
Some Albanians also thinks that they are ancient macedonians, and that Alexander III of Macedon commonly known as Alexander the Great,was Albanian! LOL
:::D
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Only fools believe that macedonians are greeks(ancient Macedonians)!
Well, then there are a lot of fools in Macedonia. They even named their biggest airport "Alexander of Macedon". It's their official policy to claim connection to ancient Macedonians.
Macedonians had a surnames like serbs,with suffix "ić" (ich) but they, changed that in the close history!
Any source for this?
Language that uses Macedonians are ancient serbian dialect, I can understand the 90%(maybe more) words and context, when an Macedonian speaks!
Again, provide a source for this. The base of Serbian language is from Herzegovina, not Macedonia. I can understand maybe 60% when they speak.
They have a 10-20% genes of bularians, greeks,albanians... but they are serbs 80-90%!
Where did you read that? Present day Macedonians are an undefined mass of Slavic speakers, who were much longer under Bulgarian than Serbian rule. Their language is closer to Bulgarian than Serbian. There are a lot of romanized Vlachs called Tzintzars among them.
All in all, the Macedonian situation is not clear like Montenegrin, and if they don't want to be Serbs, it's their choice. Albanians will destroy them in that case.
So what about the Slovenians,You don't consider them to be of Serb origins ? I think they speak similar language don't they ?
Slovenians are in no way Serbian. They're much closer to Czechs and Slovaks, including their language.
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Only fools believe that macedonians are greeks(ancient Macedonians)!
Well, then there are a lot of fools in Macedonia. They even named their biggest airport "Alexander of Macedon". It's their official policy to claim connection to ancient Macedonians.
Macedonians had a surnames like serbs,with suffix "ić" (ich) but they, changed that in the close history!
Any source for this?
Language that uses Macedonians are ancient serbian dialect, I can understand the 90%(maybe more) words and context, when an Macedonian speaks!
Again, provide a source for this. The base of Serbian language is from Herzegovina, not Macedonia. I can understand maybe 60% when they speak.
They have a 10-20% genes of bularians, greeks,albanians... but they are serbs 80-90%!
Where did you read that? Present day Macedonians are an undefined mass of Slavic speakers, who were much longer under Bulgarian than Serbian rule. Their language is closer to Bulgarian than Serbian. There are a lot of romanized Vlachs called Tzintzars among them.
All in all, the Macedonian situation is not clear like Montenegrin, and if they don't want to be Serbs, it's their choice. Albanians will destroy them in that case.
So what about the Slovenians,You don't consider them to be of Serb origins ? I think they speak similar language don't they ?
Slovenians are in no way Serbian. They're much closer to Czechs and Slovaks, including their language.
You see, Zelhar,this the reason why we are Shred down, because always there some naive Serb who have trust in the West, like voo-yo.
I can call my house a palace of Alexander of Macedon, and than my house have macedonian history origin!LoL
Until Tito cames no one had that stupid Thought, the same thing is for Montenegro. Tito made this borders to!
Dig deeper Vo-jo! Do some comparisons!
I can understand more of you because i am from village, and i know some archaic words that you dont know!
Many serbs from Leskovac, Vranje ... go to study in Skoplje without classes for Macedonian!So do not write a foolish things here that they are closer to Bulgerian language.Bulgerian language is close to Russian language, I speak russian so i do know that , But even Bulgerian language we can understand a lot, especially if you do read or person speaks slowly !
Israel was occupied almost 2000years , is that means that Jews are know palestinians, Serbia was under turks 500years , are you Turk! Serbia lost Macedonia when Turks Ottomans occupied serbia!
Its true that Macedonians do not want to be serbs i said that, for couple years no single Montenegrian who will said that is a Serbian!
Yes there is a lot of fools in macedonia and in Croatia(what they done to us, bu they are genetical serbs)!
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Only fools believe that macedonians are greeks(ancient Macedonians)!
Well, then there are a lot of fools in Macedonia. They even named their biggest airport "Alexander of Macedon". It's their official policy to claim connection to ancient Macedonians.
Macedonians had a surnames like serbs,with suffix "ić" (ich) but they, changed that in the close history!
Any source for this?
Language that uses Macedonians are ancient serbian dialect, I can understand the 90%(maybe more) words and context, when an Macedonian speaks!
Again, provide a source for this. The base of Serbian language is from Herzegovina, not Macedonia. I can understand maybe 60% when they speak.
They have a 10-20% genes of bularians, greeks,albanians... but they are serbs 80-90%!
Where did you read that? Present day Macedonians are an undefined mass of Slavic speakers, who were much longer under Bulgarian than Serbian rule. Their language is closer to Bulgarian than Serbian. There are a lot of romanized Vlachs called Tzintzars among them.
All in all, the Macedonian situation is not clear like Montenegrin, and if they don't want to be Serbs, it's their choice. Albanians will destroy them in that case.
So what about the Slovenians,You don't consider them to be of Serb origins ? I think they speak similar language don't they ?
Slovenians are in no way Serbian. They're much closer to Czechs and Slovaks, including their language.
You see, Zelhar,this the reason why we are Shred down, because always there some naive Serb who have trust in the West, like voo-yo.
I can call my house a palace of Alexander of Macedon, and than my house have macedonian history origin!LoL
Until Tito cames no one had that stupid Thought, the same thing is for Montenegro. Tito made this borders to!
Dig deeper Vo-jo! Do some comparisons!
I can understand more of you because i am from village, and i know some archaic words that you dont know!
Many serbs from Leskovac, Vranje ... go to study in Skoplje without classes for Macedonian!So do not write a foolish things here that they are closer to Bulgerian language.Bulgerian language is close to Russian language, I speak russian so i do know that , But even Bulgerian language we can understand a lot, especially if you do read or person speaks slowly !
Israel was occupied almost 2000years , is that means that Jews are know palestinians, Serbia was under turks 500years , are you Turk! Serbia lost Macedonia when Turks Ottomans occupied serbia!
Its true that Macedonians do not want to be serbs i said that, for couple years no single Montenegrian who will said that is a Serbian!
Yes there is a lot of fools in macedonia and in Croatia(what they done to us, bu they are genetical serbs)!
What are you talking about?
Crnitrne, ocigledno ne razumes engleski dobro, jer onda ne bi odgovarao nesto sto nema veze s onim sto sam ja napisao. Drzi se srpskog.
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Again, provide a source for this. The base of Serbian language is from Herzegovina, not Macedonia. I can understand maybe 60% when they speak.
You're thinking of Shtokavian, which is a dialect of the Serbian language originated in Serbian Hercegovina and Rashka. Shtokavian is not the only dialect spoken by Serbs.
Bulgarians are Slavicized Asians. Their ethnonym and original language are non-Slavic. The language they speak now and their Orthodox faith were passed on to them by Serbs. Bulgarian and Macedonian languages are actually an older form of the Serbian language, which predominated among eastern Serbs (east of the Drina) until 18-19th centuries which brought the period of Vuk Karadzic's reforms.
Skoplje used to be Serbia's capital city and was the center of the Serbian Kingdom. Macedonians are in fact a clearly defined people and their their origins are well established. The problems is with them not wanting to accept it.
So, Serbs started talking differently because Vuk Karadzic told them so? That's ridiculous. There are some Serbs on the border with Macedonia and Bulgaria who speak serbo-bulgarian mix, but that's not a genuine dialect.
Uskoro ces reci da Zemunci govore posebnim narecjem.
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Again, provide a source for this. The base of Serbian language is from Herzegovina, not Macedonia. I can understand maybe 60% when they speak.
You're thinking of Shtokavian, which is a dialect of the Serbian language originated in Serbian Hercegovina and Rashka. Shtokavian is not the only dialect spoken by Serbs.
Bulgarians are Slavicized Asians. Their ethnonym and original language are non-Slavic. The language they speak now and their Orthodox faith were passed on to them by Serbs. Bulgarian and Macedonian languages are actually an older form of the Serbian language, which predominated among eastern Serbs (east of the Drina) until 18-19th centuries which brought the period of Vuk Karadzic's reforms.
Skoplje used to be Serbia's capital city and was the center of the Serbian Kingdom. Macedonians are in fact a clearly defined people and their their origins are well established. The problem is with them not wanting to accept it.
Generally saying, i agree with you.Vuk Karadzic maybe worked for AU but his work have some good thing. Now we have simpler grammar and the best Writing of language,One symbol - Single voice(sound-phones). So Serbian language have the best Writing in the world, the easiest language for reading, anyone can learn to read serbian just in 2-3 weeks, and faster!
And Voo-yo, my english is not so good but Zelhar understand what i was saying. And I was not writing just a that what you are asked. I was writing all in one post, that was easy for me!
And classical moment, when arguments are gone, you start to talk about orthography and grammar of English language,and next your step is directly Insulting! But you are doing that just to Serbs !
So please stop to posting that pro-western and Vatican c.r.a.p here!
PS We all know that you are good in English language, and admire to you!
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Again, provide a source for this. The base of Serbian language is from Herzegovina, not Macedonia. I can understand maybe 60% when they speak.
You're thinking of Shtokavian, which is a dialect of the Serbian language originated in Serbian Hercegovina and Rashka. Shtokavian is not the only dialect spoken by Serbs.
Bulgarians are Slavicized Asians. Their ethnonym and original language are non-Slavic. The language they speak now and their Orthodox faith were passed on to them by Serbs. Bulgarian and Macedonian languages are actually an older form of the Serbian language, which predominated among eastern Serbs (east of the Drina) until 18-19th centuries which brought the period of Vuk Karadzic's reforms.
Skoplje used to be Serbia's capital city and was the center of the Serbian Kingdom. Macedonians are in fact a clearly defined people and their their origins are well established. The problem is with them not wanting to accept it.
Yes Serbstvo, thx for help!
Lets ask our friend Zelhar to describe unlike and similarity between ancient Hebrew and, modern Hebrew,Tiberian Hebrew or Masoretic Hebrew,Mishnaic Hebrew,Amoraic Hebrew (also called Late Rabbinic Hebrew or Mishnaic Hebrew II),Samaritan Hebrew language,Ashkenazi Hebrew,Sephardi Hebrew,Mizrahi Hebrew or Oriental Hebrew,Yemenite Hebrew...even more a Yiddish language! Are this languages of Jews people?
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Vuk Karadzic wasn't the one calling the shots. He was an agent assigned by the Habsburgs to alter the Serbian language so that it more resembled the languages of Slavic peoples within the Austrian-Hungarian Empire than Russian and Bulgarian, which it was closer to at the time. This was part of Vienna's greater plan of eventually absorbing Serbia into the Empire. Before Karadzic's linguistic reforms, Serbian, Bulgarian and Russian were equally understood between its respective peoples. Serbs and Russians were able to communicate in their own languages without the need of interpreters. Nowadays, Serbs and Russians have to speak in English in order to understand each other.
Karadžić's reforms of the Serbian literary language modernised it and distanced it from Serbian and Russian Church Slavonic, instead bringing it closer to common folk speech, specifically, to the dialect of Eastern Herzegovina which he spoke. Karadžić was, together with Đuro Daničić, the main Serbian signatory to the Vienna Literary Agreement of 1850 which, encouraged by Austrian authorities, laid the foundation for the Serbian language, various forms of which are used by Serbs in Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia today. Karadžić also translated the New Testament into Serbian, which was published in 1868.
And it was the Serbian king, under enormous Austrian pressure, who implemented Karadzic's reforms. Vuk Karadzic named his daughter Wilhelmina, a clear indicator of who he was and who he worked for.
It's a nice conspiracy theory. One question for you. What language do Serbs west from Drina and in Montenegro speak? Croatian?
What you are now saying is that what Croats claim. That we stole their language.
And it was the Serbian king, under enormous Austrian pressure, who implemented Karadzic's reforms. Vuk Karadzic named his daughter Wilhelmina, a clear indicator of who he was and who he worked for.
Like I said, that's ridiculous. You can't force an entire nation to change the way they talk, especially in those times, when majority of people didn't even go to school.
Vuk Karadzic was married to a German woman and lived in Vienna. That's why his daughter was called Wilhelmina, it was a compromise with his wife. His son had a Serbian name. It doesn't make him a foreign agent.
And btw, Church Slavonic was a fake language, invented by clergy who learned from Russian books, and it was a language of the educated upper class. That's why they fought Vuk's reform, because they despised common uneducated Serbs - "govedare".
Are you from Russia?
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Again, provide a source for this. The base of Serbian language is from Herzegovina, not Macedonia. I can understand maybe 60% when they speak.
You're thinking of Shtokavian, which is a dialect of the Serbian language originated in Serbian Hercegovina and Rashka. Shtokavian is not the only dialect spoken by Serbs.
Bulgarians are Slavicized Asians. Their ethnonym and original language are non-Slavic. The language they speak now and their Orthodox faith were passed on to them by Serbs. Bulgarian and Macedonian languages are actually an older form of the Serbian language, which predominated among eastern Serbs (east of the Drina) until 18-19th centuries which brought the period of Vuk Karadzic's reforms.
Skoplje used to be Serbia's capital city and was the center of the Serbian Kingdom. Macedonians are in fact a clearly defined people and their their origins are well established. The problem is with them not wanting to accept it.
Generally saying, i agree with you.Vuk Karadzic maybe worked for AU but his work have some good thing. Now we have simpler grammar and the best Writing of language,One symbol - Single voice(sound-phones). So Serbian language have the best Writing in the world, the easiest language for reading, anyone can learn to read serbian just in 2-3 weeks, and faster!
And Voo-yo, my english is not so good but Zelhar understand what i was saying. And I was not writing just a that what you are asked. I was writing all in one post, that was easy for me!
And classical moment, when arguments are gone, you start to talk about orthography and grammar of English language,and next your step is directly Insulting! But you are doing that just to Serbs !
So please stop to posting that pro-western and Vatican c.r.a.p here!
PS We all know that you are good in English language, and admire to you!
Jedini koji ovde vredja si ti. Zato pazi se, jer sledeci put necu da te branim kad drugi budu govorili da si trol i misionar.
Ne mozemo da raspravljamo na engleskom, jer ti ne razumes sta ja pisem, i onda odgovaras desetu stvar, a i ja ne razumem tvoj engleski, a ponekad i srpski.
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Lets ask our friend Zelhar to describe unlike and similarity between ancient Hebrew and, modern Hebrew,Tiberian Hebrew or Masoretic Hebrew,Mishnaic Hebrew,Amoraic Hebrew (also called Late Rabbinic Hebrew or Mishnaic Hebrew II),Samaritan Hebrew language,Ashkenazi Hebrew,Sephardi Hebrew,Mizrahi Hebrew or Oriental Hebrew,Yemenite Hebrew...even more a Yiddish language! Are this languages of Jews people?
Ancient Hebrew texts, and medieval texts etc. are fairly easy to read since the grammar is just a little different and most of the words are still in use in modern Hebrew. As a spoken language it is harder to understand somebody who speaks in a different pronunciation like Ashkenazi or Yemeni since they are quite different from modern pronounciation which is based mostly on Sephardi pronunciation.
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No. The language spoken by all people west of the Drina (Serbs, Croats, Muslims) is Shtokavian. A dialect of Serbian! Chakavian is the authentic Croatian language but it's not understood by most so-called Croats because all Shtokavian speakers are of Serbian descent. There are Kajkavian (Slovenian dialect) speakers in Croatia who also identify as Croats even though they are Slovenian. Croats are awfully good at assimilating people. In the past 20 years, Croatia has converted some 30000 of the few remaining Serbs left in the country.
Unbelievable. "Shtokavian language"? Something like that doesn't exist and that term was made up so that Croats don't have to admit they are speaking Serbian. All those who spoke "shtokavian" were catholic Serbs.
As you see, I am not saying what Croats claim. But you are when claiming that Macedonians are a separate ethnic group from us and that their language is Bulgarian, when both Macedonian and Bulgarian are in fact an archaic form of Serbian spoken in a certain period in history by all Serbs including west of the Drina before there was a Shtokavian.
What are you trying to say, that Bulgarians are Serbs? Where is your evidence for such claim? You are probably just another fanboy of that "historian" Deretic.
Albanians have two entirely different dialects in their langauge (Tosk and Gheg) but Serbs are somehow not allowed to?
It's also a political construct made for the purpose of unity of fake Albanian nation. Tosk and Gheg are different languages, not dialects.
Serbs made the mistake of bounding the Orthodox religion to Serbdom. The Vatican, Vienna and finally the Communists later followed the same idea when erasing the Serbian identity from its Catholic and Muslim populations. You are doing the same with declaring everything non-Shtokavian as Bulgarian.
I'm not forcing anyone to be Bulgarian. But at the same time we can't force them to be Serbs. Many of them have downright hostile attitude to Serbian people. I can't call them brothers just like I can't call those Ustashas from Herzegovina brothers. They are purer Serbs than Macedonians are, but blood isn't everything. If they want to be Serbs, I have no objections. However, they don't.
Serbs to the south and east are not Shtokavian speakers. Why don't you tell them they are Bulgarian then? That is exactly what Bulgarians are doing and why for more than a century they have been trying to annex Nis, Pirot, Vranje and Macedonia, and who knows what other places.
Those Serbs speak "Shtokavian". There is a slight Bugarian influence in their language but it's not Bulgarian. We once had a lot of Turkish words in our language, but it doesn't mean we were speaking Turkish.
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If you read me carefully you would've noticed that I said Bulgarians are an Asian people, mixed with Serbs. They are not Serbs, but their language is. Macedonians are though. A genetic study recently conducted on the territory of the Balkans has revealed that Serbs, "Macedonians", and Romanians are genetically identical. Genetic material of Bulgarians differs by about 40%. I have the info stashed somewhere. I'll have to dig it up.
Now Romanians are also Serbs? Is Romanian a dialect of Serbian as well?
It's too late for that now. Serbs should have thought of that centuries ago. The damage has been done. Besides, you said Macedonian is Bulgarian. That's saying the opposite.
I'm saying that Macedonians are a mix of mostly non-slavic people who speak a language closer to Bulgarian than Serbian. For example, Tose Proeski. He was a Tzintzar, declaring as Macedonian. Toma Fila, the famous attorney, also a Tzintzar from Macedonia, declares himself as a Serb.
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Lets ask our friend Zelhar to describe unlike and similarity between ancient Hebrew and, modern Hebrew,Tiberian Hebrew or Masoretic Hebrew,Mishnaic Hebrew,Amoraic Hebrew (also called Late Rabbinic Hebrew or Mishnaic Hebrew II),Samaritan Hebrew language,Ashkenazi Hebrew,Sephardi Hebrew,Mizrahi Hebrew or Oriental Hebrew,Yemenite Hebrew...even more a Yiddish language! Are this languages of Jews people?
Ancient Hebrew texts, and medieval texts etc. are fairly easy to read since the grammar is just a little different and most of the words are still in use in modern Hebrew. As a spoken language it is harder to understand somebody who speaks in a different pronunciation like Ashkenazi or Yemeni since they are quite different from modern pronounciation which is based mostly on Sephardi pronunciation.
Thank you Zelhar, i asked that you can understand situation about serbian dialect! Croats,Bosnians,Montenegrians and Macedonians its very similar to hebrew situation !
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Linguistically speaking they aren't, although there are many Serbian words in the Romanian language and Cyrillic was their alphabet until the second half of the 19th century. But we have the same genetic makeup. Bulgarians are linguistically Serbian, but they're Asian.
Romanians who live close to Serbia speak a Romanian language influenced by Serbian, just like Serbs close to Bulgaria are influenced by Bulgarian. There are also Bulgarians in western Bulgaria who speak a mix of Bulgarian and Serbian. It's not a big mystery, languages are mixed in border areas.
I don't see how we would have the same genetic makeup as Romanians. They aren't Slavic at all.
I'm saying that Macedonians are a mix of mostly non-slavic people who speak a language closer to Bulgarian than Serbian.
Well you're wrong on that one. If you substituted the word "Bulgarians" for "Macedonians" the statement would be correct.
Could you clear that up a bit? You want me to write:
I'm saying that Macedonians are a mix of mostly non-slavic people who speak a language closer to Macedonian than Serbian?
That would make no sense at all.
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Next time come with some arguments into a discussion so you don't get embarrassed.
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Jedini koji ovde vredja si ti. Zato pazi se, jer sledeci put necu da te branim kad drugi budu govorili da si trol i misionar.
Ne mozemo da raspravljamo na engleskom, jer ti ne razumes sta ja pisem, i onda odgovaras desetu stvar, a i ja ne razumem tvoj engleski, a ponekad i srpski.
Nemoj ti da me branis molim te, ako znas administratora ne znaci da si u pravu i ovo je cista pretnja! Ako ja budem zbog istine izbacen neka me izbace. Ali moram jedno da ti kazem da bi znao gde ti je mesto. Ja bolje poznajem i srbsku i jevrejsku istoriju od tebe i jevrejski narod, i veci sam im prijatelj nego sto ces ti ikad biti i zato miran i ne glodji lanac!
A da si vredjao jesi,samo sta si pisao novakovicu to ni pas masla ne bi pojeo!
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Prozreli su te, a ja sam im rekao da nisi kao ona budala Novakovic. Prevario sam se.
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Prozreli su te, a ja sam im rekao da nisi kao ona budala Novakovic. Prevario sam se.
ha, covek se po delu poznaje, da li si ti svestan ovog trenutka zasto me napadas?Zato sto nemas argumente ili ti se ne svidjam zbog istine, mozda bi ti trebao da razmislis o svojim postupcima i manirima.
Bilo kako bilo, pravi covek i junak ne menja istinu za laz ni jednog trenutka,i ne uvlaci se u bulju samo da bi bio deo neceg, tako se ne plaseci ni smrti a kamoli 'banovanja'.
Moja jedina vodilja je logika a cilj istina a ne zelje!
Ali najvise mrzim kukavice!!
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A lot has been said already, but here's my opinion.
In Slovenia there is no persecution of Serbs, or I have not heard before. We have a correct relationship due to chicken minds and ignorance of Serbs that Slovenia started disintegration of former Yugoslavia.They strangled young Serbian boys(18-19 years old), unarmed regular Yugoslavian Army troops while withdrawing from the territory of Slovenia. No one was convicted, nor our traitorous government want to persecute them.
About them I have neither a positive nor a negative stance. I do not care about them and most Serbs do not think about them.
Slovenians like to visit Serbia(Belgrade) ,especially for a new year evening. It is known fact that they like Serbs but not Croats.Croatia and Slovenia have worsened their relationship because of some unsolved territorial issues on the sea border.
Montenegro, the Serbian state. The cradle of many Serbian heroes. A large number of the Serbs in Serbia had its roots in Montenegro. "Montenegrin nation" does not exist and it is the invention of Tito's communist regime to reduce the Serbian corpus in the Balkans. "Montenegro" name is not given by ethnicity of the people who live there but by the characteristics of the terrain and difficult life(Montenegro means "Black Mountain"). Currently, the Serbs are being assimilated and forced to accept "Montenegrin nation". There are attacks on the Serbian Orthodox Church conducted by Vatican and supported by EU. This was already seen in Croatia during the WWII by creating a "Croatian Orthodox Church" to separate people from the Serbian Church and Serbian identity. The same recipe is used today in Montenegro with creation of so called "Montenegrin Orthodox Church". In addition to that, occupier invents the "Montenegrin language" that was never and nowhere recorded in our history. This year it was officially invented as the mother tong of "Montenegrin nation".
As you can see the Serbs are now terribly persecuted in Montenegro and they are blackmailed and pressured to forget their origin, language and religion. Occupiers in Montenegro have announced a destruction of small church on a certain mountain and this event could provoke civil conflict between the traitors and the remaining Serbs in Montenegro. Current prime minister Milo Djukanovic recently threatened to Serbs in Montenegro that they should remember what happened to Serbs in Serbian Krayina(today Croatia) referring to their cleansing.
Hard times are in front of the Serbs in Montenegro...really hard.
Considering Macedonia... We all know that this is a political project to make this Southern Slavs(very similar to Serbs and Bulgarians also) as "Macedonians". Macedonia is a Greek name and Macedonians were Greeks. This territory was Southern Serbia and just before WWII it was named Vardar province in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, not a state. Communist made it a state calling it Macedonia. That was a moment of twisting of the people's identity and today they live in a dream that they are real Macedonians, even claiming that Alexander was of current false "Macedonian" ethnicity.
The most important is that there was a try to create a "Macedonian Orthodox Church" with the similar goals just like in Montenegro and Croatia - in order to separate them from Orthodox Serbs. This "church" is not recognized by Serbian Church, Greece do not recognize this state by its name as it is stolen Greek heritage , and Bulgaria as I know do not recognize their language considering it to be Bulgarian.
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Prozreli su te, a ja sam im rekao da nisi kao ona budala Novakovic. Prevario sam se.
ha, covek se po delu poznaje, da li si ti svestan ovog trenutka zasto me napadas?Zato sto nemas argumente ili ti se ne svidjam zbog istine, mozda bi ti trebao da razmislis o svojim postupcima i manirima.
Bilo kako bilo, pravi covek i junak ne menja istinu za laz ni jednog trenutka,i ne uvlaci se u bulju samo da bi bio deo neceg, tako se ne plaseci ni smrti a kamoli 'banovanja'.
Moja jedina vodilja je logika a cilj istina a ne zelje!
Ali najvise mrzim kukavice!!
Ne znam imas li mentalnog kapaciteta to da shvatis, ali ne mogu ja de te banujem, niti imam veze kod administratora. Ti, kao i Novakovic, ces biti banovan zbog krsenja pravila ovog foruma. Branis clana kojeg su banovali zbog antisemitizma. Sta to govori o tebi? I o kakvoj tvojoj istini pricas? Sta buncas?
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Prozreli su te, a ja sam im rekao da nisi kao ona budala Novakovic. Prevario sam se.
ha, covek se po delu poznaje, da li si ti svestan ovog trenutka zasto me napadas?Zato sto nemas argumente ili ti se ne svidjam zbog istine, mozda bi ti trebao da razmislis o svojim postupcima i manirima.
Bilo kako bilo, pravi covek i junak ne menja istinu za laz ni jednog trenutka,i ne uvlaci se u bulju samo da bi bio deo neceg, tako se ne plaseci ni smrti a kamoli 'banovanja'.
Moja jedina vodilja je logika a cilj istina a ne zelje!
Ali najvise mrzim kukavice!!
Ne znam imas li mentalnog kapaciteta to da shvatis, ali ne mogu ja de te banujem, niti imam veze kod administratora. Ti, kao i Novakovic, ces biti banovan zbog krsenja pravila ovog foruma. Branis clana kojeg su banovali zbog antisemitizma. Sta to govori o tebi? I o kakvoj tvojoj istini pricas? Sta buncas?
Ja ne branim Novakovica nego govorim kako si se ti ponasao prema njemu , bez trunke postovanja, a s Novakovicem sam imao najvise sukoba ovde ali mene ne zanima da li si ti Novakovic,Voo-yo ili neko sesti vec samo istina. I nemoj optet da se pravis pametan i da vredjas na suptilan nacin, naravno da ti ne mozes da me banujes,i ako bi sad to voleo samo zato sto ti se ne svidjaju cinjenice u vezi Makedonije, ali ti si ovde rekao da si me branio, javno to nisi cinio to znaci da imas kontakt na PM sa nekim Administratorom!
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Fresh new!
This is surprise for me to!
80% of people(ordinary people without politicians) in FYR Macedonia (without Albanians) feel sorry and regret, for separation from Serbia.!
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Serbia 14. century just before Ottomans attack!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Byzantine1355.PNG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Serbian_Empire_in_14th_century-sr.svg
feudal area of todays macedonia was under the Vukašin Mrnjavčević and later to his son Marko Mrnjavčević (Marko Kraljevic- most popular person in the serbian epic poetry !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuka%C5%A1in_Mrnjav%C4%8Devi%C4%87
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Marko
This is enough to Zelhar to understand who are the " Macedonians " !
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Prozreli su te, a ja sam im rekao da nisi kao ona budala Novakovic. Prevario sam se.
ha, covek se po delu poznaje, da li si ti svestan ovog trenutka zasto me napadas?Zato sto nemas argumente ili ti se ne svidjam zbog istine, mozda bi ti trebao da razmislis o svojim postupcima i manirima.
Bilo kako bilo, pravi covek i junak ne menja istinu za laz ni jednog trenutka,i ne uvlaci se u bulju samo da bi bio deo neceg, tako se ne plaseci ni smrti a kamoli 'banovanja'.
Moja jedina vodilja je logika a cilj istina a ne zelje!
Ali najvise mrzim kukavice!!
Ne znam imas li mentalnog kapaciteta to da shvatis, ali ne mogu ja de te banujem, niti imam veze kod administratora. Ti, kao i Novakovic, ces biti banovan zbog krsenja pravila ovog foruma. Branis clana kojeg su banovali zbog antisemitizma. Sta to govori o tebi? I o kakvoj tvojoj istini pricas? Sta buncas?
Ja ne branim Novakovica nego govorim kako si se ti ponasao prema njemu , bez trunke postovanja, a s Novakovicem sam imao najvise sukoba ovde ali mene ne zanima da li si ti Novakovic,Voo-yo ili neko sesti vec samo istina. I nemoj optet da se pravis pametan i da vredjas na suptilan nacin, naravno da ti ne mozes da me banujes,i ako bi sad to voleo samo zato sto ti se ne svidjaju cinjenice u vezi Makedonije, ali ti si ovde rekao da si me branio, javno to nisi cinio to znaci da imas kontakt na PM sa nekim Administratorom!
Ja sam ti vec jednom rekao da ne postoji razlog zasto bih imao postovanja prema takvima kao sto je on. Zasluzio je mnogo gore.
Nikakve ti cinjenice nisi izneo, samo svoja misljenja.
Nemam kontakt s administratorom, vec obicnim clanovima, a branio sam te preko licnih poruka. Ne brini, necu vise napraviti takvu glupost.
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Serbia 14. century just before Ottomans attack!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/C.E./Byzantine1355.PNG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Serbian_Empire_in_14th_century-sr.svg
feudal area of todays macedonia was under the Vukašin Mrnjavčević and later to his son Marko Mrnjavčević (Marko Kraljevic- most popular person in the serbian epic poetry !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuka%C5%A1in_Mrnjav%C4%8Devi%C4%87
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Marko
This is enough to Zelhar to understand who are the " Macedonians " !
Bulgaria ruled those areas far longer than Serbia. Serbia ruled parts of Greece. Medieval maps don't prove anything.
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Serbia 14. century just before Ottomans attack!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/C.E./Byzantine1355.PNG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Serbian_Empire_in_14th_century-sr.svg
feudal area of todays macedonia was under the Vukašin Mrnjavčević and later to his son Marko Mrnjavčević (Marko Kraljevic- most popular person in the serbian epic poetry !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuka%C5%A1in_Mrnjav%C4%8Devi%C4%87
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Marko
This is enough to Zelhar to understand who are the " Macedonians " !
Bulgaria ruled those areas far longer than Serbia. Serbia ruled parts of Greece. Medieval maps don't prove anything.
Its not matter who rules some territory but who live there!
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Serbia 14. century just before Ottomans attack!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/C.E./Byzantine1355.PNG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Serbian_Empire_in_14th_century-sr.svg
feudal area of todays macedonia was under the Vukašin Mrnjavčević and later to his son Marko Mrnjavčević (Marko Kraljevic- most popular person in the serbian epic poetry !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuka%C5%A1in_Mrnjav%C4%8Devi%C4%87
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Marko
This is enough to Zelhar to understand who are the " Macedonians " !
Bulgaria ruled those areas far longer than Serbia. Serbia ruled parts of Greece. Medieval maps don't prove anything.
Its not matter who rules some territory but who live there!
And who lives there? People who don't see themselves as Serbs. Where is your evidence that they are Serbs? If you have them, I'll accept it.
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Serbia 14. century just before Ottomans attack!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/C.E./Byzantine1355.PNG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Serbian_Empire_in_14th_century-sr.svg
feudal area of todays macedonia was under the Vukašin Mrnjavčević and later to his son Marko Mrnjavčević (Marko Kraljevic- most popular person in the serbian epic poetry !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuka%C5%A1in_Mrnjav%C4%8Devi%C4%87
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Marko
This is enough to Zelhar to understand who are the " Macedonians " !
Bulgaria ruled those areas far longer than Serbia. Serbia ruled parts of Greece. Medieval maps don't prove anything.
Its not matter who rules some territory but who live there!
And who lives there? People who don't see themselves as Serbs. Where is your evidence that they are Serbs? If you have them, I'll accept it.
Your proof that they are not serbs is that they do not recognize themselfs as serbs BRAVO!
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Serbia 14. century just before Ottomans attack!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/C.E./Byzantine1355.PNG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Serbian_Empire_in_14th_century-sr.svg
feudal area of todays macedonia was under the Vukašin Mrnjavčević and later to his son Marko Mrnjavčević (Marko Kraljevic- most popular person in the serbian epic poetry !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuka%C5%A1in_Mrnjav%C4%8Devi%C4%87
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Marko
This is enough to Zelhar to understand who are the " Macedonians " !
Bulgaria ruled those areas far longer than Serbia. Serbia ruled parts of Greece. Medieval maps don't prove anything.
Its not matter who rules some territory but who live there!
And who lives there? People who don't see themselves as Serbs. Where is your evidence that they are Serbs? If you have them, I'll accept it.
Your proof that they are not serbs is that they do not recognize themselfs as serbs BRAVO!
It's you who have to prove it, not me.
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You are the only one who dont see evidences !
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You are the only one who dont see evidences !
What evidence?
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Don't debate about irrelevant issues. This is not important for Zelhar's questions.
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Don't debate about irrelevant issues. This is not important for Zelhar's questions.
Absolutely. He only asked what is our relationship with neighboring countries.
That relationship is bad, but we're deluding ourselves thinking it's good.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LoG5OF00dk
Serbian song from kosovo!!!
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(http://www.map-of-greece.co.uk/maps/map-of-macedonia.gif)
Macedonians come from the territory in the above map. Whatever people to the north of these territories are, they are not Macedonians. Just stating that you are something does not by default make your statement true. I can call myself a Mongolian but that does not make me a descendant of Genghis Khan.
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(http://www.map-of-greece.co.uk/maps/map-of-macedonia.gif)
Macedonians come from the territory in the above map. Whatever people to the north of these territories are, they are not Macedonians. Just stating that you are something does not by default make your statement true. I can call myself a Mongolian but that does not make me a descendant of Genghis Khan.
I cant see the map!
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Here's a link.
http://www.map-of-greece.co.uk/maps/map-of-macedonia.gif
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Here's a link.
http://www.map-of-greece.co.uk/maps/map-of-macedonia.gif
DEAD LINK!
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DEAD LINK!
Not dead for me but here it is anyway.
(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n380/hiwarp/map-of-macedonia.gif)
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If Montenegrins are Serbs,I am Clint Eastwood.We created state in 6th century,you created it in 7th.You call it "Serbian state" or "principality" or "country".Seriously?Why would we have state in Middle Ages,not unite with yours,and yet worse,why Duklja (Montenegro) was at wars with Rascia (Serbia)?Serbia after all,in 1180's,conquered it by war.And on modern history of ours.
First to make it clear.I am not follower of Milo,nor I will ever be.I won't talk right now about his mafia government.
Term of "Serbdom" was never known to Montenegrin people,until up about 1840's.You may put up falsificated letters from beyond that period,but that won't help,my friend.
"Serbdom" came with Vuk Karadzic,reformer of Serbian language,and with Ilija Garasanin,Serbian politician and Prime Minister.First target that started it was Njegos,Montenegrin Prince-Bishop.Of course Vuk was some time at him and he presented him his work "SERBS - Everyone and everywhere" ("Srbi svi i svuda") .That was,together with "Nacertanije" of Ilija Garasanin,first step that leaded to Serbicizing,or accepting Serb ideology.
Of course,under Vuk's influence,Montenegrin Prince-Bishop wrote famous book "The Mountain Wreath" .It is amazing piece of poetry,but what it contained lead to accepting of Serbdom.His sucessors,Prince Danilo and King Nikola also continued with ideology.Only at end of his life,after World War 1,when Serbian King,who was his grandson,forbidden him from coming back to Montenegro,he realised how fake these theories were.
Theories that Montenegrins are Serbs that came here after Battle of Kosovo are not true,because Montenegro (called Zeta at a time),already had Balsic dynasty ruling,and there were already many people and clans,of which we descend from.
Montenegrin people always knew who they are.Today,on Cetinje,center of Old Montenegro,everyone will tell you that they are Montenegrins,old men also.Only on north of Montenegro,there are "Serbs".
On this elections,Serbs also "sold themselves",they were bribed to vote for Milo.
Why do you want to appoint our history for yourselves?Probably because you were under Turks for 5 centuries,while down south,near the sea a handful of men lived free.
I lived in Montenegro,and I lived in Serbia,in Nis.People have different mentality,very different,that's for sure.I can't draw any similarities between them.
Please,stop doing this.We two are brotherly people,and I like Serbs,just don't make up what we really are.
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If Montenegrins are Serbs,I am Clint Eastwood.We created state in 6th century,you created it in 7th.You call it "Serbian state" or "principality" or "country".Seriously?Why would we have state in Middle Ages,not unite with yours,and yet worse,why Duklja (Montenegro) was at wars with Rascia (Serbia)?Serbia after all,in 1180's,conquered it by war.And on modern history of ours.
First to make it clear.I am not follower of Milo,nor I will ever be.I won't talk right now about his mafia government.
Term of "Serbdom" was never known to Montenegrin people,until up about 1840's.You may put up falsificated letters from beyond that period,but that won't help,my friend.
"Serbdom" came with Vuk Karadzic,reformer of Serbian language,and with Ilija Garasanin,Serbian politician and Prime Minister.First target that started it was Njegos,Montenegrin Prince-Bishop.Of course Vuk was some time at him and he presented him his work "SERBS - Everyone and everywhere" ("Srbi svi i svuda") .That was,together with "Nacertanije" of Ilija Garasanin,first step that leaded to Serbicizing,or accepting Serb ideology.
Of course,under Vuk's influence,Montenegrin Prince-Bishop wrote famous book "The Mountain Wreath" .It is amazing piece of poetry,but what it contained lead to accepting of Serbdom.His sucessors,Prince Danilo and King Nikola also continued with ideology.Only at end of his life,after World War 1,when Serbian King,who was his grandson,forbidden him from coming back to Montenegro,he realised how fake these theories were.
Theories that Montenegrins are Serbs that came here after Battle of Kosovo are not true,because Montenegro (called Zeta at a time),already had Balsic dynasty ruling,and there were already many people and clans,of which we descend from.
Montenegrin people always knew who they are.Today,on Cetinje,center of Old Montenegro,everyone will tell you that they are Montenegrins,old men also.Only on north of Montenegro,there are "Serbs".
On this elections,Serbs also "sold themselves",they were bribed to vote for Milo.
Why do you want to appoint our history for yourselves?Probably because you were under Turks for 5 centuries,while down south,near the sea a handful of men lived free.
I lived in Montenegro,and I lived in Serbia,in Nis.People have different mentality,very different,that's for sure.I can't draw any similarities between them.
Please,stop doing this.We two are brotherly people,and I like Serbs,just don't make up what we really are.
Another lost soul.
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Another lost soul.
Postujem.Ionako je to jedino sto mozes reci.
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Оооо, па ђе си Милогорац (или можда Шиптогорац), шта има? Него, реци ти нама шта ћеш ти уопште овде, слуго Ватикана?
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If Montenegrins are Serbs,I am Clint Eastwood.We created state in 6th century,you created it in 7th.You call it "Serbian state" or "principality" or "country".Seriously?Why would we have state in Middle Ages,not unite with yours,and yet worse,why Duklja (Montenegro) was at wars with Rascia (Serbia)?Serbia after all,in 1180's,conquered it by war.And on modern history of ours.
First to make it clear.I am not follower of Milo,nor I will ever be.I won't talk right now about his mafia government.
Term of "Serbdom" was never known to Montenegrin people,until up about 1840's.You may put up falsificated letters from beyond that period,but that won't help,my friend.
"Serbdom" came with Vuk Karadzic,reformer of Serbian language,and with Ilija Garasanin,Serbian politician and Prime Minister.First target that started it was Njegos,Montenegrin Prince-Bishop.Of course Vuk was some time at him and he presented him his work "SERBS - Everyone and everywhere" ("Srbi svi i svuda") .That was,together with "Nacertanije" of Ilija Garasanin,first step that leaded to Serbicizing,or accepting Serb ideology.
Of course,under Vuk's influence,Montenegrin Prince-Bishop wrote famous book "The Mountain Wreath" .It is amazing piece of poetry,but what it contained lead to accepting of Serbdom.His sucessors,Prince Danilo and King Nikola also continued with ideology.Only at end of his life,after World War 1,when Serbian King,who was his grandson,forbidden him from coming back to Montenegro,he realised how fake these theories were.
Theories that Montenegrins are Serbs that came here after Battle of Kosovo are not true,because Montenegro (called Zeta at a time),already had Balsic dynasty ruling,and there were already many people and clans,of which we descend from.
Montenegrin people always knew who they are.Today,on Cetinje,center of Old Montenegro,everyone will tell you that they are Montenegrins,old men also.Only on north of Montenegro,there are "Serbs".
On this elections,Serbs also "sold themselves",they were bribed to vote for Milo.
Why do you want to appoint our history for yourselves?Probably because you were under Turks for 5 centuries,while down south,near the sea a handful of men lived free.
I lived in Montenegro,and I lived in Serbia,in Nis.People have different mentality,very different,that's for sure.I can't draw any similarities between them.
Please,stop doing this.We two are brotherly people,and I like Serbs,just don't make up what we really are.
Watch this carefully this is a recipe for making false nations ! This is way that which have passed the Macedonians, Bosnians, Croats, and now Montenegrins ("milogorci")! This is all from Vatican kitchen!
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Fine.I tried to be nice,and you started insulting.
Don't try to make false history.I'm sorry,but evidence ain't going in your favor.If you have something smart to say,go on,so I can be convinced in Serb ideology.
And about what Vatican you talk?Don't speak nonsenses about our origin.
There are whole lot of things that prove our identity,sir,and you can not disapprove any.
A gosn Slobodane,kao prvo da kazem,nijesam "Milogorac".Svaki pravi Crnogorac nije DPS-ovac i Milov sljedbenik,kako da budemo sljedbenici covjeka koji nam unistava drzavu?
O kakvome Vatikanu ti?Dobro ti znas ko su i sta su Crnogorci,da su pravoslavne vjeroispovjesti i da ce tako i ostati.Ili mozda puno slusas Jovana Deretica,i njegovih teorija.Raspitaj se malo,kako se Srbi prodavase na izbore za DPS?Izvini,ali mi jos nijesmo spali na to da damo obraz za 50 eura.
Poceo si sa uvredama upucenim meni.To dobro pokazuje tvoje cojstvo.
Procitaj "Istoriju Crne Gore" iz 18 vijeka,ili poslanice Svetog Petra Cetinjskog.Da li ces naci nekih dokaza za tvoje i Seseljeve teorije?Hahaha,cisto sumnjam.
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Fine.I tried to be nice,and you started insulting.
Don't try to make false history.I'm sorry,but evidence ain't going in your favor.If you have something smart to say,go on,so I can be convinced in Serb ideology.
And about what Vatican you talk?Don't speak nonsenses about our origin.
There are whole lot of things that prove our identity,sir,and you can not disapprove any.
A gosn Slobodane,kao prvo da kazem,nijesam "Milogorac".Svaki pravi Crnogorac nije DPS-ovac i Milov sljedbenik,kako da budemo sljedbenici covjeka koji nam unistava drzavu?
O kakvome Vatikanu ti?Dobro ti znas ko su i sta su Crnogorci,da su pravoslavne vjeroispovjesti i da ce tako i ostati.Ili mozda puno slusas Jovana Deretica,i njegovih teorija.Raspitaj se malo,kako se Srbi prodavase na izbore za DPS?Izvini,ali mi jos nijesmo spali na to da damo obraz za 50 eura.
Poceo si sa uvredama upucenim meni.To dobro pokazuje tvoje cojstvo.
Procitaj "Istoriju Crne Gore" iz 18 vijeka,ili poslanice Svetog Petra Cetinjskog.Da li ces naci nekih dokaza za tvoje i Seseljeve teorije?Hahaha,cisto sumnjam.
Ne moras da se trudis Titovo pionirce Milogorce te price smo slusali i slusamo od ostalih yabludelih brace (cro,bih,mac) vi ste malo yakasnili vis enije interesantno ! Radi mene budi i tajlandjanin i marsovac ako hoces ali poreklo ti srpsko crni kukavce! Kad bi te sad cuo Njegos glavu bi ti odrubio bez da se zamisli. Jadnicak u grobu se prevrce! Svi tvoji preci se dicili srpstvom a ti ustastvom. bicete gori nego hrvati jedete iz papine sake Da Bog Da vas kayna snasla najgora! Da ovo cuje Nikac od rovina zivog bi te odrao jado jedna!
Ala se poyivas na strucnjaka vala ne bih ni da komentarisem. I onu sektu CPC sto pravite i to je narucio vas otac iz vatikana da boga vam se seme zatrlo izdajnici!!!
"Ne bojim se od vrazjega kota,:
neka ga je ka na gori lista,:
no se bojim od zla domacega. "
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"I'm not afraid of the devil's birth
even if they are numerous like a leaves in the forest,
but I am afraid from domestic evil "
Petar Petrovich Njegosh
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If Montenegrins are Serbs,I am Clint Eastwood.We created state in 6th century,you created it in 7th.You call it "Serbian state" or "principality" or "country".Seriously?Why would we have state in Middle Ages,not unite with yours,and yet worse,why Duklja (Montenegro) was at wars with Rascia (Serbia)?Serbia after all,in 1180's,conquered it by war.And on modern history of ours.
First to make it clear.I am not follower of Milo,nor I will ever be.I won't talk right now about his mafia government.
Term of "Serbdom" was never known to Montenegrin people,until up about 1840's.You may put up falsificated letters from beyond that period,but that won't help,my friend.
"Serbdom" came with Vuk Karadzic,reformer of Serbian language,and with Ilija Garasanin,Serbian politician and Prime Minister.First target that started it was Njegos,Montenegrin Prince-Bishop.Of course Vuk was some time at him and he presented him his work "SERBS - Everyone and everywhere" ("Srbi svi i svuda") .That was,together with "Nacertanije" of Ilija Garasanin,first step that leaded to Serbicizing,or accepting Serb ideology.
Of course,under Vuk's influence,Montenegrin Prince-Bishop wrote famous book "The Mountain Wreath" .It is amazing piece of poetry,but what it contained lead to accepting of Serbdom.His sucessors,Prince Danilo and King Nikola also continued with ideology.Only at end of his life,after World War 1,when Serbian King,who was his grandson,forbidden him from coming back to Montenegro,he realised how fake these theories were.
Theories that Montenegrins are Serbs that came here after Battle of Kosovo are not true,because Montenegro (called Zeta at a time),already had Balsic dynasty ruling,and there were already many people and clans,of which we descend from.
Montenegrin people always knew who they are.Today,on Cetinje,center of Old Montenegro,everyone will tell you that they are Montenegrins,old men also.Only on north of Montenegro,there are "Serbs".
On this elections,Serbs also "sold themselves",they were bribed to vote for Milo.
Why do you want to appoint our history for yourselves?Probably because you were under Turks for 5 centuries,while down south,near the sea a handful of men lived free.
I lived in Montenegro,and I lived in Serbia,in Nis.People have different mentality,very different,that's for sure.I can't draw any similarities between them.
Please,stop doing this.We two are brotherly people,and I like Serbs,just don't make up what we really are.
Немам намеру да одговарам на ову новокомпоновану дукљанско-усташку пропаганду, већ ме само једна ствар занима. Пошто је ово пре свега јеврејски форум, да ли си овде због осећања пријатељства према том народу, жеље да их подржиш у њиховој борби или једноставно живиш да би се расправљао са Србима где год их нађеш на интернету као и остале усташе?
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Немам намеру да одговарам на ову новокомпоновану дукљанско-усташку пропаганду, већ ме само једна ствар занима. Пошто је ово пре свега јеврејски форум, да ли си овде због осећања пријатељства према том народу, жеље да их подржиш у њиховој борби или једноставно живиш да би се расправљао са Србима где год их нађеш на интернету као и остале усташе?
Na ovom forumu sam prvenstveno zbog simpatija prema jevrejskom narodu i zbog mog interesovanja za judaizam.Nego ti meni reci odakle vama pravo da me nazivate ustasom?Samo iznesem par cinjenica a vi morate pocet s vrijedjanjem.Kakva vam je to kultura?Ja ne gajim nikakvu mrznju prema Srbima,jer oni su bratski narod,ali vi je gajite prema meni.
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Na ovom forumu sam prvenstveno zbog simpatija prema jevrejskom narodu i zbog mog interesovanja za judaizam.Nego ti meni reci odakle vama pravo da me nazivate ustasom?Samo iznesem par cinjenica a vi morate pocet s vrijedjanjem.Kakva vam je to kultura?Ja ne gajim nikakvu mrznju prema Srbima,jer oni su bratski narod,ali vi je gajite prema meni.
Издајници немају браћу.
Govor Petra I Petrovića septembra mjeseca 1796.
održan Crnogorcima prije polasaka u boj
protiv Mahmud-paše Bušatlije na Krusima
Blagosobrani vojnici i hrabri vitezi,
Evo opet dođe vrijeme, da ponovimo naše snažne mišice nad krvožednim agarjanskim rodom! Evo, velim, opet dođe vrijeme, da pokažemo osvjedočenu slavu i hrabrost i dostojnu obranu naše slobode, koju su nam naši blaženopočivši predci vjerno dohranili. Mene vaša osvjedočena hrabrost kod Martinića uvjerava, da ćete još silniji i mužestveniji u ovom drugom sraženiju biti. Vaše su mišice već ogrezle u tekućoj krvavoj neprijateljskoj rijeki. Vas su neprijatelji kao ljute risove razjarili i u vama silni duh hrabrosti, duh vitežtva diše. Ustremite se na neprijatelja naše vjere, našeg predragog imena srbskog i naše dražajše voljnosti, učinite, slavni vitezi! da današnjim danom pokažemo to što će vi vječni spomen među rodom i potomstvom ostaviti. Danas sa radostnim čuvstvom očekuje naš mili rod vaše vitežke podvige vijencem pobjede uvjenčane čuti, a potom da vi dostojne pjesme spjevaju i vijence slave pletu. Ne uztežite u žestokoj bitki vaše krijepke mišice, koje su se navikle junački megdan dijeliti. Budite složni sad više no igda protiv našeg obšteg neprijatelja i učinite ono, što vi dostojno vašem imenu odgovara.
Vi i sami znate da su se Turci od vazda bojali, a i sad se boje Crnogoraca, boje se srbskijeh vitezova, koji nijesu vični svoju postojbinu ostavljati, a još manje crnim obrazom na svoj se dom povraćati.
Pomolimo se milostnome Bogu, koji je svoju blagodat nad nama ne jednom pokazao u krvavim sraženijama, pak će isti velikij i pravedni Bog opet svoju milost nad svojim vjernim i njega ljubećim sinovima pokazati. Spomenite Boga sa mnom zajedno, koji vi je vazda pomagao, pak će i sad.
9. septembar 1796.
ТЕСТАМЕНТ СВЕТОГ ПЕТРА ЦЕТИЊСКОГ
Тестамент Петра I
От нас владике Петра
Благородној Господи Духовнога и Мирскога чина Главарима и старјешинама и свему Народу Церногорскому и Бердскому Свесердо и најпотоње поздравље!
Сватко знаде и види, како сам ја од давнога доба и времена грохнуо и пануо, те не могу већ никуђ, нешто од старости, а највише од свакојаке муке и труда, које сам у весиј мој вијек за Народ Церногорскиј и Бердскиј подносио и за слободу Христијанске вјере и нашега отечества претерпио, чувајући народ и сиротињу како своју душу. Но то ја и сам видећи и познавајући своју слабост и болест неизљечиму и да ми се смерт приближила, написао сам нека потребита писма и књиге и наредио их све ђе сам имао што посилати да се посила по мојој смерти, тако и вама свијема, Народу Церногорскому и Бердскому, написах и оставих ову књигу, коју сви да чујете и добро разумијете пријед него ме укопате.
Молим свакога Церногорца и Берђанина, малога и великога, којему сам што сагријешио или какву жалост учинио, да ми свак опрости од свега сердца и душе, а такоја опраштам свакога малога и великога кои ми је гођ што сагријешио, просто да је од мене свакојему за довијек и на страшниј Божиј суд о второме Христа Бога пришествију.
Пак најпервиј свему народу чиним аманат и самосилнијем Богом овога свијета Творцом и свом силом небесном заклинам свеколико, да ме с миром у тишини и у љубави општенародској кротко укопате и ожалите, да не би ни кервник кервнику тадер герке ријечи проговорио.
Другу вас молбу молим и страшнијем и свемогућијем Богом заклинам, да на моје мертве перси вјеру задате и утвердите проза сву нашу земљу и Јепархију, проза све нахије, села и племена да нико никога низашто не тиче барем до Ђурђевадне, а до тадер надам се у Господа и Спаса нашега да ће вам начин живљења бити занаго учињен и суд у сву земљу Царскиј постављен, које самја у нашега ваздашњега Покровитеља и обранитеља Цара Русинскога испросио и исплакао, а то сам вама и попријед говорио некијема, да ја за вас и за наше обштенародско благополучије и добро живљење и брижим и работам, како и Бог знаде и како ћете и ви свиколици до мало времена знати и виђети.
Изван тога највише ве свакојега молим и све истинскијем Богом Вседержитељем заклинам и тежкиј Божиј и ваздашњиј аманет чиним и остављам, да Церковно добро и имуће, ђегођ је какво, не тиче нитко никада за васиј свијет и за сваку вашу срећу и поштење и да ми свако Церковно чељаде, калуђере, ђакове и служитеље моје и ваше, пазите и держите, како сам их ја истиј вазда пазио и держао, особито мојега Иванчика, а ја на моје мјесто насљедником управитељем и чуватељем од свега мојега и Церковнога чиним и остављам синовца мојега Рада Томова Петровића, у којега се надам да ће бити чојек од посла и од разума, коликоје преблагиј Отац Небесниј благоволио подарити, и којега Богу и Цару нашему и свему Народу Церногорскоме и Бердскому за вијека препоручавам свијем сердцем и свом душом.
Најпослијед још нешто да ви кажем и избистрим, о браћо и Народе Церногорскиј и Бердскиј! Ну чујте за вазда и узнајте од мене, кои ве нијесам никад лукавио и на злу срећу никога наводио, при смерти мојој објављујем вам и ову божију истину: како је ђетко лакомиј на лафу Мошковску, а не заслужујући је, мислио и зборио да ја изједох све и браћи подијелих што гођ новаца из Русије од Цара народу доходи, ема се свакиј вара и гријеши у то и ја вас вјерне и поштене, овијем путом на кои ћу за довијек, свакојега увјеравам, да од све лафе Мошковске, како се говори, ништа никуђ бестрега нијесам но етоје сва у готово и на гомилу, и да је она од Цара мени на образ и на расположеније по моијем молбама дата, а на ползу свега Народа Сербскога, него да те новце ни ја без велике преше и највеће нужде не пенџам, како и нијесам никуђ ни динара, до што сам на кулук земаљскиј похарчио, докле га опета силни а безумни љуђи не развергоше, за које ја остајем чист без прикојаса пред Богом и пред људма. Пак сам ја за те новце нашему Цару и Покровитељу писао, да учини он ка за своје аспре какву хоће наредбу и одговорио ми је, да хоће својега официјала овамо послати, кои ће и те аспре пријмити и харчити на суд кои ће он поставити у нашу земљу, и моја је највећа рана на сердцу, коју ћу и у гроб понијети, штоја то још не дочеках за живота свога, а како смо сви жуђели виђети.
Ако би се ко нашао у народу нашему да не пријми ове моје потоње ријечи и препоруке за истините, или ако не би све тако послушао како сва књига изговара, него би какву смутњу и раздор међу народом усудио се чинити словом или дјелом, тога свакојега, ко би гођ он био, мирскиј или духовниј, ја на самертниј час мој вјечноме проклетству и анатеми предајем, како њега тако и његов род и пород, да му се и траг и дом ископа и утре! Исто тако да Бог да и ономе, кои би вас од вјерности к благочестивој и Христољубивој Русии отлучити поискао и свакојему ако би се кои из вас Церногорацах и Берђанах нашао да помисли отступити од покровитељства и нада на једнородну и јединовјерну нама Русију, да Бог дајакиј те од њега живога месо одпадало и свако добро временито и вјечно отступило! Свијема, пак, добријема, вјернијема и кои гођ ово моје потоње писмо послушају и саверше да буде најусердније моје отеческо и Архијерејско благословеније от рода в род родов и во вјеки вјеков! Амин.
На подлинном собственнофамил--->щрнащ Его печат и подпис Его:
Цетиње 18. Октом. 1830. годишта. влад(и)ка ПЕТР с. р.
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Шта је овим Црногорцима, изгледа да су већи комплексаши и од Хрвата.
1921 године у Црној Гори је живело 92,6% СРБА па је тај број захваљујући огромним комплексима, претњама и тотално политизованом попису вођеног од стране шаке јада Црногораца, 1948 године абнормално смањен.
Резултат, 27 година касније број Срба "спао" чак на мизерних 1,78% то јест Срби су морали да се изјасне као "Црногорци". Пошто је сада број оних у Црног Гори који се изјашњавају као Срби знатно већи од 1,78% (1948), Црногорцима су изнова прорадили комплекси и сада измишљају нови "Црногорски језик" који је чиста смејурија и заправо ни не постоји већ су додали 2 измишљена слова која звуче крајње безвезе. :nono:
Иначе, према попису становништва у Књажевини Црној Гори, 1909. године Српским језиком је говорило 95% становништва.
Да, дотични Црногорац је на овом форуму баш због "интересовања за јудаизам". Бога питај одакле је тај дошао овде да провоцира.
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Шта је овим Црногорцима, изгледа да су већи комплексаши и од Хрвата.
1921 године у Црној Гори је живело 92,6% СРБА па је тај број захваљујући огромним комплексима, претњама и тотално политизованом попису вођеног од стране шаке јада Црногораца, 1948 године абнормално смањен.
Резултат, 27 година касније број Срба "спао" чак на мизерних 1,78% то јест Срби су морали да се изјасне као "Црногорци". Пошто је сада број оних у Црног Гори који се изјашњавају као Срби знатно већи од 1,78% (1948), Црногорцима су изнова прорадили комплекси и сада измишљају нови "Црногорски језик" који је чиста смејурија и заправо ни не постоји већ су додали 2 измишљена слова која звуче крајње безвезе.
Да, дотични Црногорац је на овом форуму баш због "интересовања за јудаизам". Бога питај одакле је тај дошао овде да провоцира.
Не можеш то да објасниш "комплексима". Нису то никакви комплекси, већ завера веома моћних скупина људи. Комунистима и Ватикану су Срби већ дуго времена кост у грлу, и пошто виде да Срби тешко савијају колена пред њима, решили су да нас распарчају и униште. Доћи ће на овај форум ускоро и неки "Војвођанер" који ће нас учити правој историји, називаће нас различитим али братским народом, и објашњавати како имамо потпуно различит менталитет од њих.
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Не можеш то да објасниш "комплексима". Нису то никакви комплекси, већ завера веома моћних скупина људи. Комунистима и Ватикану су Срби већ дуго времена кост у грлу, и пошто виде да Срби тешко савијају колена пред њима, решили су да нас распарчају и униште. Доћи ће на овај форум ускоро и неки "Војвођанер" који ће нас учити правој историји, називаће нас различитим али братским народом, и објашњавати како имамо потпуно различит менталитет од њих.
Па наравно да не може разлог смањења броја оних који се изјашњавају као Срби бити сама чињеница да неко има "комплексе". Наравно да се на првом месту зна шта је комунизам и његове последице, то са комплексима је само фигуративно речено.
ДеСрбизација у Црној Гори је деценијама у пуном јеку.
"Njeguši su jedno od najsvetijih i za Crnogorce najznačajnijih mesta. Tu je nastala dinastija Petrović, na Njegušima je rođen i veliki Njegoš, "tamo se vazda rađalo, živjelo i umiralo u časti i poštenju". Bilo nekada, sada je drugačije. Godine, nova vremena i novi običaji, ili interesi, doneli su u Njeguše mržnju prema nečemu što je, reći će vam svaki Srbin iz Crne Gore, najcenjenije bilo u Njegušima; donelo je mržnju prema srpstvu i Srbima. Milo Kadija, čuli ste sigurno, isterao je iz svog restorana Kadmi, na Njegušima, Veselinku Rajković koja je tu svratila sa petoro dece da ručaju. Društvo im je pravila i jedna monahinja Srpske pravoslavne crkve. Čuvši da su Srbi, Milo ih je izbacio napolje.
Više od tog fašističkog ispada gade mi se reakcije koje, ovim povodom, dolaze iz Crne Gore, ali i iz Srbije. Mislim na ono: To je izolovan slučaj; Ma pusti budalu, takav je on oduvek; Crnogorci vole Srbe; Mi smo jedan narod; Srbi i Crnogorci su braća... Ništa od ovoga nije tačno, Milo Kadija nije budala, ovo nije izolovan slučaj, a Srbi i Crnogorci nisu braća. To je nekada, istina, bio jedan narod, ali kako se stvari odvijaju, kako vreme prolazi, Srbi će kroz, uzmimo, desetak godina, u Crnogorcima dobiti najveće mrzitelje. Mrtva trka sa Hrvatima.
Sklapanje očiju pred istinom vodi u još veći problem. Krajnje je vreme da se umesto gornjih "objašnjenja" otvoreno kaže da u Crnoj Gori brže od korova buja antisrpstvo. Crna Gora se, ako je neko zaboravio, 2006. godine, odvojila od Srbije, osamostalila, na talasu antisrpstva, priči o vekovnoj ugroženosti, na širenju straha da će Srbija progutati Crnu Goru, satrti je u crnu zemlju, napraviti od nje malu srpsku avliju.
Pre dvadesetak dana na Cetinju, prilikom jednog sportskog susreta, gostovanja košarkašica iz Beograda, domaća publika je horski urlikala: "Srbe na vrbe!". Niko nije reagovao. I tada se čulo: To je izolovan slučaj.
Nije izolovan slučaj; mržnja prema Srbiji i Srbima dohranjuje se u Crnoj Gori godinama, vrlo precizno i pedantno. To rade najviši državni funkcioneri, na čelu sa Rankom Krivokapićem, predsednikom Skupštine Crne gore, to je državna politika.
Početkom ove godine najpoznatiji (i najcenjeniji) crnogorski pisac Andrej Nikolaidis objavio je tekst u kojem, toga se sigurno sećate, žali što jedan slučaj zabeležen u Banjaluci nije okončan likvidacijom tadašnjeg predsednika Srbije, Borisa Tadića, premijera, Mirka Cvetkovića, ministra Dačića, predsednika Republike Srpske Milorada Dodika. Na reagovanja iz Srbije ustao je spomenuti Krivokapić, čiji je Nikolaidis službeni savetnik, i odbacio svaku mogućnost da se bar izvini nekome u Srbiji.
U državnom aparatu, diplomatiji, sudstvu, policiji... Crne Gore, nema Srba. Ako ste Srbin pre ćete u Crnoj Gori dobiti premiju igara na sreću nego mesto u državnom aparatu. Crnogorska država vodi nekoliko procesa protiv sveštenika Srpske pravoslavne crkve, sa ciljem da ih protera iz zemlje, jer, eto, nemaju dozvolu za boravak.
U slučaju Mila Kadije država nije reagovala. A trebalo je? Naravno, da zatvori restoran; pokrene proces protiv Mila zbog širenja rasne mržnje i netrpeljivosti, izloži ovu bitangu medijskom ruženju, rezolutno izađe sa stavom da to nije Crna Gora, da se Crna Gora stidi zbog Mila Kadije. To bi se, u normalnim okolnostima, očekivalo od Podgorice.
A Beograd? Kako je on reagovao? Nikako. Ni slova, ni jedne jedine službene reakcije. Nešto je prozborio Aleksandar Čotrić, iz nadležnog odbora Skupštine Srbije, ali zar je to nivo sa koga se država oglašava u ovakvim situacijama.
Držim da je ambasador Srbije u Crnoj Gori ovim povodom morao da ode u Vladu Crne Gore, uloži protestnu notu i traži objašnjenje. Taj se nije ni oglasio. Kao da ga nema. Čije on interese brani u Podgorici, ko ga tamo i zbog čega drži?
Rečeno je bezbroj puta, ali ponoviću: drugi nas cene onoliko koliko mi sami sebe cenimo. I za kraj iznosim podatak koji vam, možda, nije poznat, a vrlo je inspirativan za razmišljanje: na popisu stanovništva održanom u Crnoj Gori, na samom početku 20. veka, 97 odsto stanovnika izjasnilo se kao Srbi. Da vam pomognem; u međuvremenu ovim prostorima protutnjao je komunizam."
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Nista nisu Srbi zrtve,naprotiv.Srba imas koliko hoces,a sjever,Niksic i Podgorica vrve od srpstva.To sto neko zeli da ih prikaze kao zrtve,druga je stvar.Narod vise voli vjerovat da su njegovi preci neki junaci sto prezivjese Kosovo,nego obicni ljudi.
Ni ja,a ni vi necete nikad dokazati narodu svoje misljenje.On ce biti stalno podijeljen,i tako ce da propada.
I ako biste po ovoj vasoj istoriji,da su Crnogorci zapravo bili neki Srbi iz Crne Gore,tu dolazi do izrazaja ona vasa "Ne daj Boze da se Srbi sloze",jer se nesta ne slagase s ovima iz Crne Gore.Za primjer uzmite onaj rat iz 1862,kad ovi iz Srbije pogazise svoju rijec o vojnoj pomoci i kad "ispalise" ove iz Crne Gore.
Sve i da su te velike srpske teorije tacne,da su Crnogorci Srbi,ovi bi neki rekli da su Crnogorci najveci Srbi,i da je njihova istorija blistava a junastvo neizmjerno,dok bi velika vecina rekla da Crnogorac nije nista veci Srbin od ostalih,e to tek ne bi bilo uredu,jer ta srpska Crna Gora cuvala je cast i slobodu,dok je ostatak tog nekog srpstva bio pod osmanskim jarmom.
A da je mentalitet drugaciji u nekim mjestima,za to sam barem 100 posto upravu.Dok razlika naprimjer,izmedju zapadne Srbije i Crne Gore ne moze da se primijeti,razlika izmedju Crne Gore i juga je ocigledna,to pouzdano znam.
Шта је овим Црногорцима, изгледа да су већи комплексаши и од Хрвата.
1921 године у Црној Гори је живело 92,6% СРБА па је тај број захваљујући огромним комплексима, претњама и тотално политизованом попису вођеног од стране шаке јада Црногораца, 1948 године абнормално смањен.
Резултат, 27 година касније број Срба "спао" чак на мизерних 1,78% то јест Срби су морали да се изјасне као "Црногорци". Пошто је сада број оних у Црног Гори који се изјашњавају као Срби знатно већи од 1,78% (1948), Црногорцима су изнова прорадили комплекси и сада измишљају нови "Црногорски језик" који је чиста смејурија и заправо ни не постоји већ су додали 2 измишљена слова која звуче крајње безвезе. :nono:
Иначе, према попису становништва у Књажевини Црној Гори, 1909. године Српским језиком је говорило 95% становништва.
Да, дотични Црногорац је на овом форуму баш због "интересовања за јудаизам". Бога питај одакле је тај дошао овде да провоцира.
Vidis da sam se registrovao mnogo prije nego sto sam pisao ovdje,uostalom,ko si ti da ti ja polazem racune?
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Recently I asked one visitor from Montenegro about how many Serbs live in his hometown Podgorica and he proudly said "There have never been more Serbs". Also, all men I met ever in my life time from Montenegro declared themselves to be the Serbs. I just never had experience with such people like this new member.
And for Jews who read this, it is a very similar statement to those that claim Jesus was not a Jew but Judean ethnicity. Such statement is equivalent to statement that someone is Montenegro is not Serb but Montenigrian. With that logic Jews in Palestine are Palestinians and Jews in Samaria are Samarians.
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Recently I asked one visitor from Montenegro about how many Serbs live in his hometown Podgorica and he proudly said "There have never been more Serbs". Also, all men I met ever in my life time from Montenegro declared themselves to be the Serbs. I just never had experience with such people like this new member.
And for Jews who read this, it is a very similar statement to those that claim Jesus was not a Jew but Judean ethnicity. Such statement is equivalent to statement that someone is Montenegro is not Serb but Montenigrian. With that logic Jews in Palestine are Palestinians and Jews in Samaria are Samarians.
That's interesting because I used to work with someone who was from Montenegro but considered himself a Serb.
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Nista nisu Srbi zrtve,naprotiv.Srba imas koliko hoces,a sjever,Niksic i Podgorica vrve od srpstva.To sto neko zeli da ih prikaze kao zrtve,druga je stvar.Narod vise voli vjerovat da su njegovi preci neki junaci sto prezivjese Kosovo,nego obicni ljudi.
Ni ja,a ni vi necete nikad dokazati narodu svoje misljenje.On ce biti stalno podijeljen,i tako ce da propada.
I ako biste po ovoj vasoj istoriji,da su Crnogorci zapravo bili neki Srbi iz Crne Gore,tu dolazi do izrazaja ona vasa "Ne daj Boze da se Srbi sloze",jer se nesta ne slagase s ovima iz Crne Gore.Za primjer uzmite onaj rat iz 1862,kad ovi iz Srbije pogazise svoju rijec o vojnoj pomoci i kad "ispalise" ove iz Crne Gore.
Sve i da su te velike srpske teorije tacne,da su Crnogorci Srbi,ovi bi neki rekli da su Crnogorci najveci Srbi,i da je njihova istorija blistava a junastvo neizmjerno,dok bi velika vecina rekla da Crnogorac nije nista veci Srbin od ostalih,e to tek ne bi bilo uredu,jer ta srpska Crna Gora cuvala je cast i slobodu,dok je ostatak tog nekog srpstva bio pod osmanskim jarmom.
A da je mentalitet drugaciji u nekim mjestima,za to sam barem 100 posto upravu.Dok razlika naprimjer,izmedju zapadne Srbije i Crne Gore ne moze da se primijeti,razlika izmedju Crne Gore i juga je ocigledna,to pouzdano znam.
Vidis da sam se registrovao mnogo prije nego sto sam pisao ovdje,uostalom,ko si ti da ti ja polazem racune?
Шта ме брига Ђетићу када си се ти регистровао, а ко си ти да теби неко полаже рачуне?
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:clap:
Не можеш то да објасниш "комплексима". Нису то никакви комплекси, већ завера веома моћних скупина људи. Комунистима и Ватикану су Срби већ дуго времена кост у грлу, и пошто виде да Срби тешко савијају колена пред њима, решили су да нас распарчају и униште. Доћи ће на овај форум ускоро и неки "Војвођанер" који ће нас учити правој историји, називаће нас различитим али братским народом, и објашњавати како имамо потпуно различит менталитет од њих.
:clap:
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Шта је овим Црногорцима, изгледа да су већи комплексаши и од Хрвата.
1921 године у Црној Гори је живело 92,6% СРБА па је тај број захваљујући огромним комплексима, претњама и тотално политизованом попису вођеног од стране шаке јада Црногораца, 1948 године абнормално смањен.
Резултат, 27 година касније број Срба "спао" чак на мизерних 1,78% то јест Срби су морали да се изјасне као "Црногорци". Пошто је сада број оних у Црног Гори који се изјашњавају као Срби знатно већи од 1,78% (1948), Црногорцима су изнова прорадили комплекси и сада измишљају нови "Црногорски језик" који је чиста смејурија и заправо ни не постоји већ су додали 2 измишљена слова која звуче крајње безвезе. :nono:
Иначе, према попису становништва у Књажевини Црној Гори, 1909. године Српским језиком је говорило 95% становништва.
Да, дотични Црногорац је на овом форуму баш због "интересовања за јудаизам". Бога питај одакле је тај дошао овде да провоцира.
:clap:
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http://www.srpskadijaspora.info/vest.asp?id=14159
Internet Novine Serbske -> Arhiva -> Susedne zemlje
Srpsko pitanje u Crnoj Gori
Rajo Vojinović 20/12/2010
Samo jasnim nacionalnim razdvajanjem Crnogoraca i Srba moguće je obezbijediti opstanak Srba na tom prostoru i crnogorski ideološki projekat učiniti dugoročno neodrživim
Naša intelektualna elita, čast rijetkim izuzecima, nakon raspada Jugoslavije tumara po ruševinama dva prethodna vijeka srpske istorije šireći komemorativno-defetističku psihologiju. S jedne strane, ona još uvijek robuje ideološkim stereotipima minulih vremena, a s druge strane, njen značajan dio se denacionalizuje i šićardžijsko-konvertitski prilagođava politici globalnih centara moći. Kod nas Srba se iz javne svijesti, naročito u intelektualnim krugovima, bezmalo izgubio osjećaj lične odgovornosti za opšte dobro. Među srpskim intelektualcima sve je manje Kočića, da u najtežem trenutku saopšte vjeru u nacionalnu ideju: „Gore nad nama srpsko je nebo/ Na njemu srpski sjedi Bog/ Oko njeg Srbi anđeli stoje/ Dvore Srbina Gospoda svog“.
Romantičari iz Vojvodine, a među njima posebno Laza Kostić Kostić – zaneseni dalekim ehom crnogorskih bojeva s Turcima, koji su za njih bili dostojni pjesničke hvale i prekora obrenovićevskoj Srbiji što ne čini „juriš za brata svog“ - zaslužni su što je stvoren mit o Crnoj Gori kao Srpskoj Sparti
ROMANTIČARSKI MIT O CRNOJ GORI
U epohi nacionalnog romantizma stvoren je mit o Crnoj Gori kao „Srpskoj Sparti“. Njegovi tvorci su naši romantičari iz Vojvodine, koja je, kao što znamo, tada bila u sastavu Austrougarske monarhije. Radičević, Zmaj, Jakšić, Kostić… ko će ih sve pobrojati! To se događalo u periodu kada su Srbijom vladali Obrenovići, koji su, s jedne strane, bili sve samo ne romantičari i koji su, s druge strane, u spoljnoj politici bili okrenuti Austriji. Naši pjesnici iz „Srpske Atine“ stoga nijesu imali povjerenja u Obrenoviće. Isto kao što i mi danas ne vjerujemo zvaničnom Beogradu koji vodi politiku dodvoravanja onima što su nas bombardovali i što i dalje nemilosrdno gaze po našim nacionalnim interesima. Obrenovići, opet, nijesu mogli imati oslon na Rusiju iz prostog razloga što je ruska politika na Balkanu u to vrijeme bila probugarska, što je direktno ugrožavalo srpske nacionalne interese u Staroj Srbiji. Knjaževina Crna Gora je, međutim, sve do Majskog prevrata i dolaska Petra Karađorđevića na presto, bila naslonjena upravo na Rusiju. Sanstefanski mirovni ugovor, potpisan u korist Bugara, a na štetu Srba, čija korekcija je obavljena na Berlinskom kongresu kada su i Srbija i Crna Gora stekle međunarodno priznanje, pokazao je svu složenost međunarodne pozicije Srbije toga vremena.
U takvim okolnostima Crna Gora je srpskim romantičarima iz Vojvodine bila logična inspiracija. S njom nijesu imali fizičkog dodira u mjeri koja bi im otkrila svu njenu suštinu i njenu vancivilizacijsku golotinju, pa ju je daleki eho njenih bojeva s Turcima činio dostojnom njihove pjesničke hvale i prekora obrenovićevskoj Srbiji što ne čini „juriš za brata svog“. Srpski romantičari su Crnu Goru tada okovali u zvijezde. Ona je za njih bila „ponosito st’jenje“, „pokosovski zbjeg“, „srpske krune drago kamenje“. Lovćen je postao „Olimp Srpstva“, a Crnogorci „zatočnici kosovske misli“. I taj površni romantičarski stereotip kod naše intelektualne elite traje do naših dana. Naši intelektualci danas se čude šta se to desilo sa „Srpskom Spartom“, kako je moguće da se ona odriče Kosova i predaka, srpskog jezika i ćirilice, kako je moguće da je Srpska Crkva na njenom tlu izložena gonjenju? Njihov odgovor na ta pitanja je isuviše površan i on glasi: uzrok je Đukanovićeva vlast, koja je korumpirana i ucijenjena od strane svjetskih moćnika. Problem je, nažalost, mnogo dublji. Takva Đukanovićeva vlast nije uzrok nego je posledica.
Valjalo bi se zamisliti nad činjenicom da najznačajniji Srbi tih vremena iz crnogorskog najbližeg okruženja nijesu nimalo romantičarski doživljavali Crnu Goru i Crnogorce. Stefan Mitrov Ljubiša, na primjer, kad piše o Crnogorcima, piše o njihovoj krađi i prekrađi crkvenih zvona po Paštrovićima. Arhimandrit Nićifor Dučić je proglašenje Crne Gore za knjaževinu 1851. okarakterisao riječima: „Eto nove nesreće srpskome narodu!“ Nekoliko decenija kasnije Jovan Dučić je o svom trošku u Trebinju podigao spomenik Njegošu, ali u njegovim djelima nećete naći ni slova u slavu Crne Gore. To nije slučajno. Nijedan Bokelj, nijedan Hercegovac, nijedan Paštrović niti Brđanin nije ostavio pisani trag o Crnoj Gori i Crnogorcima koji bi bio podudaran sa stavovima srpskih romantičara iz Vojvodine. Jedan od rijetkih znamenitih Srba koji je zapazio tu činjenicu i javno o njoj progovorio jeste Miloš Crnjanski.
I sam Njegoš, koji je „Gorskim vijencem“ „prestvorio kosovsku legendu i Kosovo popeo za još jedno nebo“, ostavio je pisane tragove o plemenskom zlu crnogorskom
O Crnoj Gori i Crnogorcima niko nije objektivnije pisao od Svetog Petra Cetinjskoga. „Vi ste od Boga odstupili i straha božija izgubili, vi ste grehotu i sramotu zaboravili, vi za dušu i poštenje ne mislite, vi se ne možete krvi bratske nasititi, vaša slava, vaše poštenje, vaša pohvala i dika i vaše junaštvo stoji u vašu domaću rat i neslogu, u koju svoju najvišu sreću i radost nahodite“, pisao je cetinjski čudotvorac Katunjanima maja 1822. godine uz gorki zaključak da „istini i pošten čovjek ne ima među ovim narodom mjesta“. Ovim tonom pisane su sve njegove poslanice. Da bi razumjeli šta se danas događa sa Crnom Gorom neophodno je dati pošten odgovor na sledeće pitanje: Jesu li ovi ljudi kojima se na ovakav način obraćao Sveti Petar Cetinjski bili bliži razbojnicima, ili zatočnicima kosovske misli? I sam Njegoš, koji je „Gorskim vijencem“ „prestvorio kosovsku legendu i Kosovo popeo za još jedno nebo“ (M. Bećković), ostavio je pisane tragove o plemenskom zlu crnogorskome. Tako on u pismu proti Georgiju Nikolajeviću iz 1850. piše o posledicama crnogorske izopštenosti iz civilizacije: „Ta svešteni edem da je ovakva sudbina postigla, bi se već zla prepunio i zlom otrovao. Crnu Goru je svakojako zlo pratilo, u njoj malo poprijed nije smio ni Evropejac svobodno ući, nego su se krijući uvukovali, kao što se kradom uvukuju po konopima u brodove trgovačke evropejski pacovi te se preseljavaju iz Evrope u Ameriku… Crna Gora je samo zlo kako je zli narok goni, i ja koji sam njen sin ne mogu joj ime proizreći što se neću zgroziti“.
Njegošev naslednik Danilo odgovoran je za stvaranje crnogorske nacije. U cilju realizacije te svoje namjere ovaj knjaz nije birao metode. Počeli su krvavi progoni neistomišljenika i zatiranja čitavih bratstava i porodica
ZATIRANJE SRPSKOG IDENTITETA
U takvoj, dakle, Crnoj Gori Njegoševom nasledniku Danilu je godinu dana kasnije palo na pamet da pravi državu i da se proglasi za svjetovnog vladara. Uzalud ga je narodni pametar Sula Radov upozoravao: „Gospodare, što će brod u kamenicu“? I to je, a ne komunistička revolucija (kako to stereotipno misli naša intelektualna elita), bio ključni trenutak u stvaranju crnogorske nacije. U cilju realizacije te svoje namjere Zeko Maniti (tako su knjaza Danila zvali podanici) nije birao metode. Počeli su krvavi progoni neistomišljenika i zatiranja čitavih bratstava i porodica. I danas se u Crnoj Gori dobro pamte njegovi zločinački pohodi na Kuče i Bjelopavliće, kao i zatiranje bjelopavlićkog bratstva Kadića, u režiji njegovog brata vojvode Mirka Petrovića. Marko Miljanov je u djelu „Pleme Kuči u narodnoj pjesmi i priči“ zapisao kako su kučki nevoljnici polovćenskim ubicama koji su im klali starce, žene i djecu u kolijevkama, dovikivali iz zbjegova: „Ne udri brata Srbina, Crnogorče, crn ti obraz ka ti i jest, mimo braće“. Vasojevićki vojvoda Miljan Vukov Vešović, piše 12. decembra 1870. kraljevskom namjesniku u Srbiji Jovanu Ristiću: „Knjaz opravdano sumnja i drži da sam ja most između Srbije i Crne Gore“. Isti taj knjaz, i kasnije kralj Nikola, gonio je stanovništvo novopripojenih teritorija da nosi crnogorsku dvorsku nošnju sa kapama na kojima je pisalo N. I (Nikola Prvi), da „zbore“ podlovćenskim katunskim govorom, a Srpsku gimnaziju u Pljevljima, osnovanu pod turskom okupacijom 1901. je odmah, nakon uspostavljanja crnogorske vlasti 1913. preimenovao u Kraljevsku crnogorsku državnu gimnaziju. Sintagmu „terazijski Crnogorci“, koju danas obilato eksploatišu Đukanović i njegovi ideološki saborci u Podgorici, prvi je upotrebio upravo knjaz Nikola u vrijeme tzv. „Bombaške afere“s početka dvadesetog vijeka. Šta je sve to, ako nije utjerivanje crnogorske posebnosti u odnosu na ostale Srbe?
Istina, ta danilovsko-nikolinska državotvornost jeste bila utemeljena na srpskom narodnosnom osjećanju, ali isto tako i još više na ideologiji podlovćenskog nadsrpstva, koja je oblikovana upravo na matrici srpskog nacionalnog romantizma iz Vojvodine. Cilj je bio obezbjeđivanje prednosti za cetinjski u odnosu na beogradski dvor, u trenutku neminovnog ujedinjenja Srba u jednu državu. Zbog toga je Nikola stalno govorio da Crna Gora ima istorijsko pravo na „prvjenstvo u Srpstvu“. Tu ideologiju, koja je kasnije prerasla u mentalitetsku osobinu značajnog dijela stanovništva Crne Gore, najbolje je definisao Milovan Đilas u romanu „Crna Gora“ sledećim riječima: „Srbin sam Crnogorac. Srbin sam jer sam Crnogorac. Nijesam Crnogorac što sam Srbin, nego Srbin što sam Crnogorac. Mi Crnogorci, mi smo so Srpstva“. A pošto su so Srpstva, to onda logično znači i da moraju biti povlašćeni u Srpstvu, štaviše da je njihovo neotuđivo pravo da vladaju Srpstvom! To je bila suština ideologije cetinjskog dvora – interes lične vlasti iznad svake realnosti. Kakva pretencioznost, kakva megalomanska ambicija! Nijesu, dakle, Crnogorci sami po sebi bili nosioci kosovskog zavjeta, nego su takvi bili zbog toga što je u datom istorijskom trenutku tako htio njihov Gospodar. Jer, Crnogorci se, budući da nikad u istoriji nijesu uspjeli da uspostave građanski sistem vrijednosti, bez Gospodara ne mogu ni zamisliti. Zato se nikad u crnogorskoj istoriji nije desila smjena vlasti na izborima. Ta psihologija lako se u naše vrijeme, uz podrazumijevajuću pripomoć inostranih centara moći, pretvorila u svoju suprotnost. Od nadsrba do antisrba – to je putanja istorijskog klatna današnjih crnogorskih konvertita.
1918. naši preci su samovoljno ukinuli crnogorsku državu, zbog toga što im je istorijsko iskustvo nedvosmisleno pokazalo da je crnogorska državotvorna ideja – ideja civilizacijske nemoći. Ta Crna Gora nije, prije svega, imala ekonomsku podlogu državnog suvereniteta, pa se kao takva zaista i pokazala kao „brod u kamenicu“. Samim tim ona nije mogla imati odgovore na ključna civilizacijska pitanja toga vremena. Ona je bila zaostala i totalitarna tvorevina, bez institucija, osuđena na civilizacijsko nazadovanje. Sve to je, a ne nikakva „beogradska velikosrpska zavjera“, dovelo do njenog urušavanja. Uostalom, sve to se jasno vidi iz teksta odluka Podgoričke skupštine. Takva civilizacijska nemoć ideje cetinjske državotvornosti učinila je nemogućim i proces prirodnog formiranja crnogorske nacije, pa je njeno oblikovanje u dvadesetom vijeku, iz svima znanih razloga, nastavljeno revolucionarnim komunističkim nasiljem obnavljanja iste takve Crne Gore, sa snažnim i beskompromisnim otklonom od vjekovne srpske integralističke tradicije. Pasja groblja i Zidani mostovi su logičan nastavak utjerivanja crnogorske posebnosti iz vremena Zeka Manitoga. Logičnu kulminaciju tog nasilja doživljavamo danas, kada je crnogorska država krenula u proces konačnog uobličavanja crnogorskog na bazi brutalnog zatiranja srpskog identiteta, po obrascu: crnogorska država-crnogorska nacija-crnogorski jezik-crnogorska crkva.
„Srbin sam Crnogorac. Srbin sam jer sam Crnogorac. Nijesam Crnogorac što sam Srbin, nego Srbin što sam Crnogorac. Mi Crnogorci, mi smo so Srpstva“: Milovan Đilas u romanu „Crna Gora“
DINARSKI KOZARI I NOVOCRNOGORCI
Dobra je, ali bojim se i parolaška, poruka predsjednika naše matične države da Srbija treba da bude lider u regionu. Srbija zaista može da bude lider u regionu, ali to nikako ne može biti sve dok bude vodila ovakvu politiku prema srpskom narodu van njenih granica. Regionalnu snagu Srbiji danas mogu dati jedino Srbi van njenih granica, jer samo preko njih u ovakvim okolnostima ona može ostvarivati snažan regionalni uticaj. Postojanje Republike Srpske, kao i trećine stanovništva srpske nacionalne pripadnosti i dvotrećinski većinske srpske jezičke zajednice u Crnoj Gori, samo po sebi znači da Srbija drži ključ regionalne stabilnosti u svojim rukama. Srpski potencijal u nametnutom crnogorskom državnom okviru, kao što pokazuju ove brojke, izuzetno je veliki, ništa manji od srpskog potencijala u nametnutoj BiH. Odrekne li se, ne daj Bože, Srbija svoga naroda u Crnoj Gori i Republici Srpskoj, ni sama neće imati budućnosti. U toj varijanti nastaviće se dalje komadanje srpskih etničkih teritorija i svođenje Srbije na nekadašnji beogradski pašaluk. Takva Srbija bila bi beznačajna i nemoćna državna tvorevina. I u toj priči leži istorijska odgovornost naše intelektualne elite. Stoga je po našu nacionalnu budućnost mnogo opasna priča istaknutog člana SANU, koji Srbe van sliva tri Morave posprdno naziva dinarskim kozarima. Na taj način on liječi njegove golootočke frustracije i srpsko ime svodi na Pomoravlje. Iako ima istine u njegovim tvrdnjama da su dinarski Srbi u dvadesetom vijeku nanijeli mnogo problema Srbiji, ništa manju važnost od te istine nema činjenica ko tu istinu saopštava. Nijesu li ti Dinarci bili njegovi ideološki istomišljenici, saborci i drugovi? Ne bi li onda bilo logično da je on bio njihov protivnik, a ne saborac i jednomišljenik? Bog nam je svjedok, ne voli on Pomoravlje više od bilo koga od nas ovdje prisutnih. Njegovi lični životni porazi su nažalost i naši nacionalni porazi, pa bi bar zbog naših potomaka bilo dobro da on i njemu slični konačno priznaju da su poraženi i da se suoče sa svojim ideološkim zabludama. Zar primjer Crne Gore najbolje ne pokazuje kuda vodi odlazak iz jedne u drugu krajnost?
Milo Lompar, profesor na Filološkom fakultetu u Beogradu, u nedavnom intervjuu Srpskom radiju iz Podgorice govorio je o zatiranju srpskog jezičkog identiteta u Crnoj Gori i tom prilikom kazao da „Srbi više ne nose odgovornost za Crnu Goru. Žao mi je što je to tako, ali to su činjenice i posledica istorijskog ishoda“. On potpuno opravdano donosi sud da „ne treba ulaziti u prava drugih. Prava drugih su njihova. Oni treba o njima da brinu i to nije srpska briga. Srpska briga je da Srbi brinu za sebe“. Lompar je tada rekao i ovo: „Važno je da se univerzalizuje problem. Vrlo često će to političari izneveriti – takav je posao političara. Oni su predviđeni da izneveravaju ono što u njih ulažemo, ali pitanje treba neprekidno obnavljati“. Upravo tako: srpska intelektualna elita, ne samo u Crnoj Gori nego na svesrpskom prostoru, srpsko pitanje u Crnoj Gori mora postaviti na ovaj način i samim tim izvršiti pritisak na našu političku elitu da isto to pitanje postavi na isti način. A da bi se to desilo, prethodno je potrebno da ona prevrednuje više nego površne pseudoromantičarske sudove o Crnoj Gori i njenoj prošlosti, da ih oslobodi nikolinsko-đilasovskih ideoloških okova, da shvati da je cijepanje naroda u Crnoj Gori na dvije antagonizirane nacionalne zajednice, srpsku i crnogorsku, rezultat istorijskog procesa, te da Srbi u Crnoj Gori danas žive pod okupacijom svoje dojučerašnje braće i da im prijeti nasilna asimilacija. Samo jasnim nacionalnim razdvajanjem te dvije zajednice moguće je obezbijediti opstanak Srba na tom prostoru i crnogorski ideološki projekat učiniti dugoročno neodrživim. Besplodna citatologija istorijskih izvora, koji pokazuju da su svi Crnogorci prije 1945. bili Srbi i ubjeđivanje današnjih Crnogoraca da su i oni Srbi, ideolozima novocrnogorstva samo daje dodatni zamah, daje im alibi kako mi Srbi, eto, ugrožavamo njihovu nacionalnu samobitnost. Njih u ovom slučaju istina ne zanima. To je jednako jalov posao kao što bi bio jalov posao ubjeđivanje Bošnjaka da su i oni Srbi.
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